Episode 9 Raquel Manriquez - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

Episode 9: Raquel Manriquez 🔗 **Source:** [Episode 9: Raquel Manriquez](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk3xRuYZSAc) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [wordpress, community, presscon] > author: Community and Code Podcast > source: Community and Code Podcast > reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk3xRuYZSAc] > date created: 2024-12-19 16:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Episode 9: Raquel Manriquez - WordPress Community Leadership and Event Organization >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Research Presscon 2026 early bird tickets — available through end of month #conference - [H2] Explore WordPress Phoenix meetup model — monthly gatherings with social components #community - [H3] Consider non-code contributions to WordPress community — events, human connection, advocacy #contribution ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Presscon Conference](https://presscon.org) - [WordPress Phoenix Meetup](https://www.meetup.com/phoenix-wordpress-meetup/) ## 📝 Summary - Raquel Manriquez, WordPress Phoenix community leader and Presscon organizer, discusses her journey from agency owner to community builder - Explores the unique aspects of both Presscon (intimate, unrecorded conference) and WordPress Phoenix community (genuine friendship-based leadership) - Addresses recent announcement of WordCamp US 2025 in Phoenix and community response - Emphasizes importance of non-code contributions to open source communities through events and human connection - Highlights the "democratize publishing" mission as core to WordPress community values ## 📖 Main Content Raquel Manriquez represents a crucial archetype in open source communities: the community builder whose primary contributions come through human connection rather than code commits. Starting in WordPress in 2010 through her partner's agency, she evolved into a key figure in both local and global WordPress communities. Her company, Wonderland Curious, focuses on "curious events and curious travel" - combining adult summer camp experiences with professional development. The name reflects her identification with Alice in Wonderland's curiosity and adventure spirit. Presscon, the successor to Pressnomics, deliberately creates intimate spaces for vulnerable conversations through small scale (couple hundred people), single track format, no recordings, and multi-day retreat atmosphere. This intentional design enables speakers to "drop the mic" without fear of context manipulation. The WordPress Phoenix community exemplifies sustainable local community management through genuine friendship among leadership, passionate but kind personalities, consistent in-person gatherings, and inclusive post-meetup social activities. Their resilience through the pandemic and ongoing monthly meetups demonstrates effective community stewardship. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and Background - Key idea: Raquel started in WordPress in 2010 through partner's agency decision - Evidence: "I did not come into WordPress as the implementor, designer, even coder. I came in as the partner in operations for the business" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=323) — [H2] Wonderland Curious Business Model - Key idea: Combines group travel with professional events inspired by adult summer camp concept - Evidence: "The seed was this idea to plan group travel for fun. So just this idea that you take 20 randos anywhere around the world and you unplug" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=765) — [H1] Presscon Conference Format - Key idea: Intentionally small, unrecorded conference designed for vulnerability and safety - Evidence: "It is purposely small... one track there are no recordings at all and that is very intentional because we really want each and every talk to come with it to sort of drop the mic" #### ⏱️ [18:30](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=1110) — [H2] Community Philosophy of Second Chances - Key idea: Presscon believes in human capacity for change and growth - Evidence: "We don't exclude anybody for the most part... Presscon really believes in the power of change and that only happens if we want to individually" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=1515) — [H1] WordPress Phoenix Community Success Factors - Key idea: Genuine friendship among leadership creates sustainable community energy - Evidence: "We are genuinely friends, the leadership team... when you got passionate and kind personalities magic happens" #### ⏱️ [32:40](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=1960) — [H2] Community Resilience Through Hardship - Key idea: Phoenix community survived pandemic through mutual support during personal struggles - Evidence: "There was cancer, there was divorce, there was depression... when one is weak, the other is strong" #### ⏱️ [38:20](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=2300) — [H1] WordCamp US Phoenix Announcement Response - Key idea: Phoenix community felt blindsided but committed to positive collaboration - Evidence: "Carol, get up there... it needed to be her. She's the one who started the meetup in 2011" #### ⏱️ [45:30](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=2730) — [H2] Value of Non-Code Contributions - Key idea: Community building and human connection are essential contributions to open source - Evidence: "The people who are working on the code together need to get along and have safe space and feel welcome" #### ⏱️ [52:15](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=3135) — [H1] WordPress vs Church Community Comparison - Key idea: WordPress community's welcoming nature contrasted with exclusive religious communities - Evidence: "So many people kept coming up to me just wanting to get to know me... just because I was there" #### ⏱️ [58:40](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=3520) — [H2] Open Source Mission and Values - Key idea: Democratizing publishing remains core motivation for WordPress involvement - Evidence: "The why of the project still amazes me, you know, to democratize publishing" #### ⏱️ [65:20](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=3920) — [H1] Presscon 2026 Planning Process - Key idea: Reverse engineering speakers and theme development for intimate conference experience - Evidence: "We reverse engineer speakers... we hang out with somebody and we're like we want you to speak" ## 📚 References - [Presscon Official Site](https://presscon.org) - [WordPress Phoenix Meetup Group](https://www.meetup.com/phoenix-wordpress-meetup/) - [Wonderland Curious](https://wonderlandcurious.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Raquel built her WordPress involvement through community leadership rather than technical contributions, demonstrating that open source thrives on diverse skill sets beyond coding - Presscon creates psychological safety for speakers through intentional design choices like no recordings, small scale, and extended relationship-building time - The WordPress Phoenix community succeeds because leadership genuinely cares for each other as friends, not just professional collaborators, creating resilience through personal and professional challenges ## 📰 Newsletter WordPress community leadership takes many forms beyond code contributions! This week's episode highlights Raquel Manriquez's journey from agency operations to community organizing powerhouse. Key insights for WordPress professionals: sustainable local communities require genuine relationships among organizers, intimate conference formats can enable more vulnerable and impactful presentations, and non-code contributions through events and human connection are essential to open source project success. Raquel organizes Presscon, an intimate WordPress conference with no recordings that creates safe spaces for honest industry conversations. She also leads the thriving WordPress Phoenix community that maintained monthly meetups throughout the pandemic. The episode explores how community building skills translate across contexts and why "democratizing publishing" remains a compelling mission for WordPress involvement. Resources: [WordPress Meetups](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/meetup-organizer/), [Community Team Handbook](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/), [Event Organizing Guide](https://make.wordpress.org/community/handbook/wordcamp-organizer/) ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - Community: Develop friendship-based leadership models, post-event social integration, resilience through personal support networks - Events: Study Presscon model for psychological safety, implement no-recording policies for vulnerable content, design multi-day relationship building - Meetups: Monthly consistency frameworks, beginner-friendly off-the-cuff presentations, choose-your-own-adventure social components #### Community - Organizers: Second chance policies with clear boundaries, extrovert energy management, cross-community collaboration protocols - Contributors: Recognize non-code contributions through events, human connection metrics, advocacy impact measurement - Sponsors: Value proposition clarity for intimate events, sponsor-attendee relationship facilitation ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Sustainable local tech communities require genuine friendship among core leadership team members, not just professional relationships - Conference formats that prioritize psychological safety over content capture produce more impactful and honest industry conversations - Non-code contributions to open source communities create essential infrastructure for technical contributor retention and wellbeing - WordPress community success stems from mission alignment around democratizing publishing rather than technical features alone ### 📊 Methodology - Longitudinal study of meetup organizer relationships and community sustainability metrics over 5-year periods - Comparative analysis of conference attendee feedback between recorded vs unrecorded event formats - Survey research on technical contributor retention rates correlated with community support infrastructure ### ❓ Questions - How can other technical communities replicate the genuine friendship model that sustains WordPress Phoenix? - What specific design elements beyond "no recordings" contribute to psychological safety at technical conferences? - How should open source projects measure and incentivize non-code community contributions? ### 🔮 Future Research - Cross-community analysis of organizer burnout rates and relationship quality indicators - Impact assessment of intimate vs large-scale conference formats on industry discourse - Framework development for identifying and nurturing diverse contribution pathways in technical communities ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Community organizers should prioritize genuine relationships over professional networking - Policy: Open source projects need contribution recognition beyond code commits - Education: Event planning curricula should include psychological safety design principles - Funding: Conference budgets should account for relationship-building time and space requirements ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 9 #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Personal storytelling with concrete examples - Improve: Community organization charts, event timeline visuals, relationship mapping diagrams #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Podcast format with conversational tone and personal narratives - Improve: Audio highlights reel of key quotes, companion discussion guide #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Rich metaphors (Alice in Wonderland, summer camp), clear definitions of community roles - Improve: Glossary of community organizing terms, analogy bank for different contexts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Actionable event planning steps and community building activities - Improve: Hands-on meetup planning checklist, relationship-building exercises #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear cause-and-effect relationships between community practices and outcomes - Improve: Decision trees for community conflict resolution, metrics frameworks #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community building focus with relationship emphasis - Improve: Group discussion prompts, peer mentoring frameworks #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Personal reflection on individual community contributions - Improve: Self-assessment tools for community contribution styles #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Organic community growth analogies - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about community interdependencies ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear heading hierarchy, descriptive episode title and guest introduction - Improve: Speaker identification tags, timestamp descriptions #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Transcript navigation shortcuts, chapter markers #### Contrast and readability - Present: Clean text formatting in transcript - Improve: Visual separation of speaker changes, quote highlighting #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive transcript layout - Improve: Font size controls, line spacing options #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript available - Improve: Speaker identification, emotional tone indicators #### Forms and interactions - Present: Basic podcast controls - Improve: Playback speed controls, bookmark functionality ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: Geographic diversity (Phoenix focus), religious background discussion - Improve: International community organizing examples, accessibility considerations #### Inclusive language - Present: Gender-neutral "bro" usage explanation, inclusive community philosophy - Improve: Plain language alternatives for technical terms, diverse metaphor sources #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Structured conversation with clear topics - Improve: Content warnings for personal struggle discussions, executive summary #### Representation - Present: Female leadership in male-dominated technical space - Improve: Diverse community organizer examples, varied contribution pathway stories #### Psychological safety - Present: Vulnerability modeling, safe space creation principles - Improve: Community guidelines references, escalation procedures ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear premises about friendship leading to sustainable communities with supporting evidence - Inductive strength: Pattern recognition from Phoenix success to general community principles - Causal reasoning: Well-supported links between community practices and outcomes - Analogical strength: Effective Alice in Wonderland and summer camp comparisons #### Fallacies - Appeal to emotion: Some arguments rely heavily on feeling-based evidence rather than measurable outcomes - Anecdotal evidence: Limited to single community experience without broader validation #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Authentic, passionate, conversational with genuine care for community wellbeing ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns present - Attack: No attacks on critics or accusers observed - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversal tactics - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Genuine emotional expression about community values and experiences ## 🎯 Conclusion Raquel Manriquez demonstrates that thriving technical communities require more than code - they need genuine human connection, psychological safety, and mission-driven leadership. Her success with both Presscon and WordPress Phoenix shows how friendship-based organizing and inclusive practices create resilient communities that survive challenges and continue growing. For WordPress and broader open source communities, recognizing and valuing diverse contribution types beyond coding ensures sustainable ecosystem development and meaningful democratization of technology access. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] Community leadership through genuine friendship creates sustainable organizations > [!quote] Episode 9: Raquel Manriquez by Community and Code Podcast via YouTube. Published 2024. Accessed 2024-12-19. > "We are genuinely friends, the leadership team. And that I don't think happened on purpose." Phoenix WordPress community success stems from authentic relationships among organizers rather than professional networking. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSAc?t=1515#H1) #community #leadership ID:rw_001 ### [H2] Conference psychological safety enables vulnerable industry discourse > [!quote] Episode 9: Raquel Manriquez > "There are no recordings at all and that is very intentional because we really want each and every talk to drop the mic." Presscon format prioritizes speaker safety over content distribution to encourage honest conversations. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/pk3xRuYZSA --- ## Full Transcript [00:18] Welcome to Community and Code, the [00:20] podcast about the people behind the [00:22] commits. I'm here today with Raquel, a [00:24] longtime WordPress community member, [00:27] leader uh of the WordPress Phoenix [00:31] community, uh founder owner of [00:33] Wonderland Curious. Raquel's been in the [00:36] community for a long time. Uh but if you [00:38] aren't in the WordPress community or you [00:40] don't know Raquel and you haven't seen [00:42] her around, uh Raquel, welcome to the [00:44] show and why don't you introduce [00:45] yourself? [00:46] >> Thank you. Uh, yep. I'm Raquel [00:50] and I gosh, I started in WordPress in [00:54] 2010. I used to run an agency. Uh, it [00:57] kind of became a Woo Commerce agency and [01:00] then I exited the agency in like 2018 [01:03] and then went got hired with Elegant [01:06] Themes for six years and then here I am [01:09] now running my own business. But through [01:12] all of that, I've been like a big lover [01:15] of WordPress and the community and [01:17] honestly the the idea to democratize [01:21] publishing with this open source [01:22] project. So yeah, that's that's [01:25] everything [01:27] into a sentence. Yeah, [01:28] >> the whole thing. Um, [01:30] >> I mean, you talked about it, but like [01:32] dig into a little bit about like what [01:34] drew you specifically to to WordPress. [01:36] Do you look at other things or were you [01:38] looking at other things before or was it [01:41] just like you found the thing and then [01:43] it sort of just clicked? [01:45] >> You know what? This is probably going to [01:46] be the the the most different answer you [01:50] could ever have to that question and I [01:52] will would love to find out if anyone [01:54] else has the same answer [01:56] >> because I did not come into WordPress as [02:00] the impletor, [02:02] designer, uh even coder. I came in as [02:07] the partner in operations for the [02:10] business I started with my exartner. So [02:13] I didn't actually choose WordPress. In a [02:17] way you could say WordPress chose me. [02:19] >> There you go. [02:21] >> But I do remember, you know, a lot of [02:23] stuff in the 2000s was built with Flash, [02:26] you know, and there was like a lot of [02:28] that and just like HTML custom and and [02:31] yeah, Dreamw Weaver and all that. And I [02:34] just remember my ex-artner at the time [02:36] was like, "There's this new thing called [02:37] WordPress. I really want to get into [02:39] it." And so that was honestly how I got [02:42] into it was he got into it. And then I [02:47] followed suit. So I'm very curious if [02:50] anyone else ever has a very similar [02:52] answer. [02:53] >> I mean, I think that that's not super [02:54] uncommon. And I think that um yeah, I [02:57] mean I I think that [02:58] >> for a lot of people uh you just I mean [03:02] certainly a lot of my clients when I was [03:03] freelancing got WordPress because that [03:06] was the thing that I was building with [03:07] and that was the thing that I was [03:08] advocating for. [03:09] >> Um talk about your uh your company [03:12] Wonderland Curious. Uh I know that you [03:15] uh [03:16] >> under the guise perhaps of of Wonderland [03:18] Curious um uh organized Presscon last [03:21] year and we'll talk about that a little [03:22] bit later. Um, but yeah, what is what is [03:25] Wonderland Curious and what is it that [03:26] you do these days? [03:29] >> Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna try to not talk [03:31] your ear off, but [03:32] >> you can talk my ear off. We've got a [03:34] long time. [03:35] >> I love talking. Uh, so it was I mean, [03:40] honestly, it's my it's a passion project [03:43] that's been years in the making and that [03:46] came about at the perfect time in my [03:49] life when the stars and planets aligned. [03:52] I mean, that's the full truth. I've had [03:54] it inside of me for a long time, but I [03:57] didn't know it was there. And then when [03:59] I did know it was there, I made a [04:02] conscious choice to choose my kids [04:05] before that. So, so I would say um the [04:10] seed was this idea to plan group travel [04:14] >> or for fun. So just this idea that you [04:18] take 20 randos anywhere around the world [04:21] and you unplug and you just hang out [04:24] together. So the feels are kind of like [04:26] adult summer camp [04:28] >> or like when you went to summer camp as [04:30] a kid [04:31] >> and you just are forever bonded to the [04:33] people you're with and it's an [04:35] experience that resets and rejuvenates [04:39] and that is a really hard model to [04:43] monetize just in itself. [04:45] >> Mhm. And so while I was still [04:50] being a full-time mom, um I had kids [04:52] when I was very young, so now they're [04:54] all adults. And when my baby graduated [04:57] high school, it was right around the [04:59] time when when the stars were aligning [05:03] to bring back Pressnomics, which is what [05:06] I I now I call it um press conf. [05:09] >> And all of it just made sense to bring [05:13] it together. So, I already knew I was [05:16] going to fight hard to bring what was [05:18] prest. And then my my last child, my [05:22] daughter, graduated from high school. [05:23] And all of a sudden, I had an open [05:25] calendar. And I have not had an open [05:27] calendar. And I mean, God knows how long [05:30] because I've always was always a very [05:32] involved mom and was convinced and still [05:34] am that your children want your time [05:37] more than anything else, more than any [05:39] other resource you would give them. So [05:41] then I over that summer which would have [05:44] been now two years ago. No a year ago [05:47] sorry. Yeah, two two uh a year ago last [05:49] summer just strategized and came up with [05:54] the plan which was to like start my own [05:56] company and I LLCD a year ago August and [06:01] that company is Wonderland curious and [06:03] under that company would be events and [06:08] so for hire I am for hire for anyone's [06:11] event um particularly tech events [06:14] whether big or small then to bring under [06:18] that press comp which is my event but [06:22] you know I'm still can be hired to [06:24] contract for other events and then to [06:26] bring that travel aspect to it as well. [06:29] So to still plan group travel which I'm [06:32] working on I haven't released one yet [06:34] and so those are the two essential [06:37] pillars to my business. So, and I do [06:40] love I love uh the Alice character from [06:44] Louis Carol [06:46] >> and I very much identify with her of [06:48] just like rough and tumble but very [06:50] girly [06:51] >> and and as a child I was very much that [06:54] way. is like climbing trees in my [06:56] dresses and getting dirty and getting [06:58] into trouble. Very curious and following [07:01] my curiosity, which feels like at times [07:04] you're getting into trouble, but [07:06] actually you learn and grow so much, [07:08] which is ultimately the story of Alice [07:10] and and so I kind of wanted that to be [07:14] part of my theme, but subtly. So, yes, [07:16] the name does show some of it, but my [07:19] tagline is curious events and curious [07:22] travel. So yeah, that's the business. [07:26] And here I am finally doing what I've [07:29] been wanting to do for so long. [07:30] >> That's awesome. [07:31] >> Made it happen. [07:32] >> I I I will admit that um when I first [07:36] heard the name, I definitely got like [07:39] summer uh like outdoor concert vibes [07:43] like you know like you know like the [07:46] outdoor festival. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like [07:47] I I definitely like it it felt like it [07:50] felt like a like a weekend in like [07:53] Joshua Tree or something. [07:55] >> Yeah. And and that is honestly I don't [07:57] mind that cuz it is sort of whimsical. [08:00] That was very much Lewis Carol a little [08:03] psychedelic, you know. [08:05] >> Yeah. Yeah. [08:06] >> You know, but also there's room for for [08:10] changing and modifying and interpreting [08:13] differently. So, yeah. [08:14] >> I love I love the name and the story [08:16] behind the name, too. Um, my partner and [08:19] I have an Etsy shop for we do like [08:22] tie-dye stuff like over the summer when [08:24] we have time and we put it up on Etsy. [08:26] And the name of our shop is Possible [08:28] Octopus. And the reason for the name [08:31] besides being kind of a silly name uh is [08:34] because uh Aaron, my partner, really [08:36] likes going to the beach and likes uh [08:38] going tide pooling and stuff and uh has [08:41] said a couple times uh well sort of like [08:43] a mantra is like whenever you go to the [08:45] beach, there's always a possible [08:46] octopus. [08:48] >> There's probably one out there, you just [08:50] don't see it. Yeah. [08:51] >> Um, so the so the idea of like possible [08:53] octopus was uh was just uh yeah was is a [08:57] cute like has nothing to do with tie-dye [08:59] but like is like you know a kind of like [09:01] whimsical kind of name. Um [09:03] >> I love it. [09:04] >> Yeah. Um, I will also, uh, so full [09:07] disclosure, um, the whole reason this [09:10] podcast exists, uh, and we'll talk about [09:13] Presscon in a second, uh, is in part, [09:17] uh, a product of Presscon last year. [09:20] >> Um, there's basically two inception [09:24] points, uh, that, um, that were sort of [09:28] the key sort of points that made this [09:30] podcast be. I had been thinking about [09:32] getting doing a podcast again uh for a [09:35] while and I didn't really have like I [09:37] wanted to do it and I knew I wanted to [09:38] just talk to people and I knew I could [09:40] like use my network and and like go and [09:42] reach out into different groups and and [09:44] uh and grab people and and I just wanted [09:47] to have conversations but I didn't know [09:48] what the topic was going to be and I [09:50] didn't want to just have a tech podcast [09:52] because that's boring and I don't want [09:54] to talk about tech all the time and uh [09:57] like there's enough tech podcasts. [09:59] There's not a lot that I can really do [10:00] there that would be super innovative or [10:02] interesting. Um, but when I went to [10:04] Drupal Con for the first time last year, [10:06] there was a sticker and I posted about [10:08] it on like social and whatever that says [10:10] and I have it on my water bottle. Um, [10:12] come for the code, stay for the [10:14] community. And um I that resonated with [10:18] me because that is why I've been in the [10:20] WordPress community for 20 odd years. [10:23] Um, and I think that that's probably why [10:24] you've been in the WordPress community [10:25] for the same amount of time, right? Um, [10:28] and so to see this at an event like [10:31] expressing that sentiment at an event [10:33] for a CMS that I have not been a part of [10:37] was really interesting and it sort of [10:39] let lend lent itself to this theme that [10:42] I sort of had uh this sense that I had [10:44] over the course of the week that we're [10:47] more similar uh with these other [10:49] developer communities than we are [10:50] different. Um, and that sort of like fed [10:52] into this seed uh for this idea, but it [10:55] wasn't until Presconf, which was [10:57] literally a month later, um, that it [11:00] really was hammered home because, uh, [11:02] Presscon, which is the, uh, successor to [11:05] Pressnomics, is not your typical event. [11:10] Um, I'll let you actually describe uh, [11:13] maybe perhaps what is different about [11:15] Presscon, what's unique about Presscon. [11:18] >> Yeah. um several key points and [11:23] >> uh I'm probably be all over the place [11:25] with where I hit them. Uh but it is [11:29] purposely small. Uh so I guess in [11:33] comparison to a flagship event uh so [11:36] it's not thousands of people, it's [11:38] literally a couple hundred people. [11:40] >> And that's to keep it intimate. It is [11:44] purposely one track. Uh and with that [11:48] one track there are no recordings at all [11:50] and that is very intentional because we [11:56] really want each and every talk to come [11:58] with it to sort of drop the mic and to [12:03] feel safe as the speaker to let it out [12:07] and not have fear that things might get [12:11] taken out of context. and you know and [12:14] and also just just not have any fear [12:19] that anything that will ever be recorded [12:21] and used against them in the future. [12:23] Now, of course, that's not to say that [12:24] we now invite [12:26] >> characters that that would be someone [12:30] who would take advantage of that or be [12:31] someone who who you would just question, [12:33] okay, that was not cool, you know. So, [12:35] there there there is definitely a [12:37] balance there and speakers are chosen [12:39] based on trust. So it's like we want [12:42] that we really want that vulnerability [12:44] and privacy from the talks. So then [12:47] therefore we're very careful about who [12:48] we choose. At the same time we're also [12:52] open to giving people chances. So in [12:55] that in itself is pretty different from [12:57] other uh I would say word camp or just [13:01] conferences. Uh I do love that asterric [13:05] that you know word camps very much give [13:08] like first timers and all of that where [13:11] where me and also press comp very much [13:14] believes that people can change and get [13:16] better grow together and that's a real [13:19] tough one I think for people that to [13:23] wrestle with because that means you're [13:25] giving people second chances who maybe [13:27] have have not done been the best in the [13:32] And that is one of my values and I I [13:35] that is something that is different [13:36] about Prescom is that everybody's [13:40] invited. We don't exclude anybody for [13:43] the most part. I mean hasn't happened [13:45] but if something were to happen where [13:47] it's just like okay you just crossed a [13:48] major human level line and okay now [13:51] you're out. It's the same reason why [13:53] people would lose their rights in life [13:54] if they get a felony or something like [13:56] that. But otherwise I press comp really [13:59] believes in the power of change and that [14:02] only happens if we want to individually. [14:05] I can't change somebody but I can change [14:08] myself because I want to and every bit [14:12] of part of press comp creates a space [14:14] where change can happen at least we [14:17] cultivate it. And the other part that's [14:21] different is um we pretty much stay [14:24] together the whole time, you know, start [14:27] to finish. Uh we're pretty much [14:30] everybody's at the resort together, take [14:32] breaks together. Uh lunch is a choose [14:35] your own adventure, but everything's all [14:37] right there, very walkable. And then uh [14:41] every evening, you know, there there's [14:44] the opportunity that you're still [14:46] together is so very high because we're [14:49] all in the same spot and so we're all [14:51] hanging out in the hot tub together or [14:54] or walking to a restaurant together. [14:56] >> Yep. [14:56] >> And then the also it's not crazy [14:59] different, but in our space I think it [15:01] is is the last day is a fun day is a [15:04] field trip day [15:05] >> where [15:06] >> uh we give a couple of options. always [15:08] golf because we got the golf bros and [15:10] they'll lose their minds if they don't [15:11] get their golf and uh I say that with [15:14] love. But um and then this last year we [15:16] did go-karts which was a huge hit. So [15:18] that is a day where we take everything [15:21] that we've been stewing on and wrestling [15:24] with over the past two days and just let [15:26] it sit and have fun together because [15:30] there's this there's science behind when [15:32] you kind of end some real um like [15:36] heavyhitting time emotionally and you [15:39] just kind of let go and not think. It [15:41] actually helps your brain process. And [15:45] it's the same idea of when you're in the [15:46] shower and all of a sudden all these [15:48] ideas come flooding, you know, or for me [15:50] it would be like even like and maybe you [15:52] too like like yoga or or even like [15:55] dancing because I love to dance. Um and [15:57] then you're like remember that later and [15:59] then you don't. [16:00] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. you know and so that's [16:02] the idea of that fourth day is to just [16:05] uh be with each other still because now [16:08] when you are together and an idea comes [16:10] you could just be like bro like in like [16:13] and by bro I mean that androgynously let [16:15] me be very clear because I I use that [16:18] term very androgynously uh but you know [16:21] like I just got this idea and like and [16:23] maybe you you're both busy but you're [16:25] like you say it and now both of you have [16:27] it so then that not not only do you have [16:29] a higher chance of remembering what you [16:31] just thought of, but now you you said it [16:33] to someone else, [16:34] >> right? [16:34] >> Um [16:35] >> those are pretty [16:37] >> Yeah, the biggest differences. Um [16:40] there's also just because it's uh [16:42] there's only one track over two days of [16:45] of conference days. Uh there's not a lot [16:48] of sessions, so we don't have a ton of [16:50] speakers. Uh and I think those are the [16:53] biggest differences. And maybe I missed [16:55] something. you if you remember something [16:57] you could definitely [16:58] >> Well, I just I just wanted to say that [17:00] like you know that that intentionality [17:03] and that um like the conscious decision [17:07] to not record and what that means in [17:10] terms of the types of talks that are [17:12] given at press conf versus a any insert [17:16] your own conference here. uh was a [17:19] another half of like what formulated [17:23] into my brain about um about this show [17:27] which was that I also wanted to have [17:30] real conversations like that was the [17:32] thing that clicked uh was there's the [17:35] you know the come for the code stay for [17:36] the community that was a big part of it [17:38] and then the thing that clicked was real [17:41] conversations real people yes we all [17:43] share this like you know we're in the [17:46] same communities we're doing tech, [17:47] whatever. But we're also people. And the [17:49] people are far more interesting than I [17:54] think the tech that we make and that we [17:56] produce. Um, and I'm uh much more happy [18:00] to have conversations with humans than [18:03] to just talk about the stuff that you're [18:04] building. The stuff you're building is [18:06] fine and cool and fun. Um, and like, you [18:09] know, uh, that's that's all wonderful [18:12] and interesting, but there's also like [18:14] there's other shows for that. Um, [18:16] there's other people you can talk about [18:17] the tech and and get super deep into [18:19] like, you know, the layers of your [18:21] infrastructural stack and whatever and [18:23] like that that's cool, but like what [18:27] what made you the person that you are to [18:30] build the product that you build? [18:33] >> Are you asking? [18:34] >> No, I mean that's I mean I can um No, [18:37] but that was that's just sort of like uh [18:40] >> your inspiration. [18:41] >> Yeah, the why. [18:42] >> Yeah, exactly. Yeah. [18:44] >> Yeah. I love it. [18:46] >> So, uh yeah, you've been um tell us [18:49] about So, uh announced recently, uh we [18:53] can get into this since it's moderately [18:56] spicy. Maybe [18:56] >> feel like I know where you're going. [19:00] >> Um yeah, well, it was recently announced [19:03] at uh Word Camp US a couple weeks ago, [19:06] uh that uh the next Word Camp US will be [19:10] in Phoenix uh in the middle of August, [19:12] which is awesome. Uh I live I live in [19:16] Salt Lake City. I have a pretty good [19:18] idea of what uh Phoenix is like in [19:20] August. [19:21] >> Sure. [19:23] >> Um and I wanted to actually focus more [19:28] less about the the announcement of it [19:31] being in Phoenix. uh because there's [19:34] there's drama and we can talk about the [19:35] drama around that too. But als but more [19:37] importantly what I think um is valuable [19:42] to share here for our purposes is like [19:46] you said a lot after that about the [19:49] Phoenix WordPress community and what [19:52] makes it special and um like postcoid I [19:57] know a lot of local WordPress [19:58] communities kind of my my own in uh as [20:02] as well um kind of fell off the app. Um, [20:07] but it feels like you still have [20:10] something going on in Phoenix. Um, to [20:12] talk about what makes the Phoenix [20:15] WordPress community work and and what [20:19] makes it special and and why you've kind [20:22] of stuck it out for for so long. [20:25] >> Yeah. Um, [20:27] I think there's a few things that would [20:31] explain why and how. And, uh, really I [20:36] think ultimately could be summed up by [20:38] saying we are genuinely friends, the [20:41] leadership team. And that I don't think [20:46] happened on purpose. like we weren't [20:48] like necessarily like will you be my [20:51] friend you know like back in you know [20:53] when we're children you know but it just [20:55] worked out that way and I think [20:58] incidentally [21:00] we have some passionate people on the [21:03] the leadership team and when you got [21:07] passionate [21:08] and kind personalities magic happens [21:12] because you could also have passionate [21:13] and not kind and then you have a [21:16] dictator [21:17] you know like um and throughout the [21:20] years uh when you have that already to [21:24] start it attracts you know and and it [21:27] attracts others. So, Carol Stambba, who [21:30] was the one who got up and said what she [21:33] said the very last question of the [21:35] keynote and Q&A. And I mean, that was [21:38] happening because her, myself, and like [21:41] two others on the the Phoenix team were [21:43] like texting non-stop, you know, when [21:45] the announcement happened. And then and [21:47] I'm like, Carol, get up there. [21:50] And and I'm like, get up there. Uh, and [21:53] the reason why is like it needed to be [21:56] her. She's the one who started the [21:58] meetup. in 2011, but she mentioned that [22:01] and Carol is we we've joked that she's [22:04] like mama WordPress, but she is just I [22:09] mean her she's a bundle of love and and [22:14] there's just something about her that [22:16] makes everybody better and I'm probably [22:17] going to start crying and and she's [22:20] become like a big sister, like a mentor [22:22] to me. And so I got in to honestly the I [22:26] was part of the like global community [22:28] before I even got involved in the [22:30] Phoenix community just because when I [22:32] first start got involved in uh WordPress [22:34] it was through word camps and traveling [22:36] >> and then I'm like oh but we we at the [22:39] time Word Camp Phoenix was the biggest [22:41] local word camp in the world at the time [22:44] and [22:45] >> and so I'm like well we got a really [22:47] cool space and I need to be involved and [22:49] that was like my torch as like the owner [22:52] of my old agency uh for I was like, [22:55] well, I'm going to be like face and [22:57] community big time of our agency. And so [23:00] I just like got involved and it's so [23:02] easy to work with her. It's just so [23:04] easy. And then so then it just starts to [23:07] snowball, right? And then even I [23:10] remember the last time where Camp [23:12] Phoenix was ginormous was 2014 and then [23:15] the leader stepped down and they needed [23:18] a new leader and they came up to me and [23:19] they're like, "Would you do And I I felt [23:21] like a baby girl, you know, and I was [23:23] like, "What? No, I don't I I just [23:25] couldn't do it." And then it took us [23:28] having to skip 2015 for then myself and [23:31] two others to just kind of be like, [23:33] "We're going to figure this out." And [23:34] then we brought it back. And that was [23:36] was what I would call like second wave [23:39] of the local WordPress Phoenix team. And [23:43] every single time we almost met in [23:47] person for every meeting, like almost [23:49] every single time. And so, and we're all [23:52] roughly, [23:54] I guess, compatible and all come from [23:56] different part walks of life, different, [23:59] you know, identities and all of that. [24:01] But for some reason, we just liked each [24:04] other. We just it just was like a ma a [24:07] match made in Alisium. I keep saying [24:09] that cuz it's fun to say instead of [24:10] heaven. [24:12] But we we just loved each other. We were [24:16] like friends. We would hang out outside [24:18] of WordPress. We celebrated each other's [24:21] lives and wins. You know, we would go to [24:23] each other's houses and break bread [24:26] together. And all the while we poured [24:30] our blood, sweat, and tears into the [24:32] community and into word camps. And and [24:35] then even that second wave word camp [24:37] Phoenix was still big was still like a [24:39] 600 500 600 person event and still just [24:42] incredible. [24:44] >> And then also coincidentally I didn't [24:46] know that was my calling was events cuz [24:49] I was just that's a whole other story [24:51] but I didn't have any identity. I had no [24:53] idea who I was other than at the time [24:54] wife and mom and and I was just didn't [24:59] know it at the time but just naturally [25:00] gifted in running events. And then Carol [25:02] comes from an events background. [25:04] >> So we were just like killing it. We were [25:06] just like accidentally putting on such [25:08] an amazing show. I mean something [25:10] equivalent to a flagship and in the way [25:13] it's ran and the level and so it just [25:16] felt good. Every time we would end a [25:19] word camp we were energized. Sure, we [25:22] were tired and sure we needed to like [25:24] rest, but like it was like, "Okay, let's [25:26] do it again where, and I'm sure you've [25:28] heard this, Chris, is like majority [25:30] whenever somebody ends a word camp, [25:32] they're dead. They're done. They're [25:34] burnt out. They're just they've had it." [25:37] And we weren't doing that. We were just [25:40] gaining even more momentum. And so then [25:42] our teams would grow. And sure, there'd [25:44] be people that would come in and out, [25:45] but it was always this core. And [25:48] actually through all of those years at [25:49] the core was Carol and then myself and [25:52] then what I would say part of the second [25:55] wave was also Dave Ryan and then now [25:57] into that third wave which what I would [25:59] call post pandemic was myself Dave Ryan [26:03] and Carol and just I don't know why [26:06] Chris but we fought for it. We were [26:09] going through it. I mean now we're not [26:12] celebrating each other's wins. We're [26:14] suffering with each other. There uh was [26:16] cancer, there was divorce, there was [26:19] depression. [26:20] I don't think any single one of us had [26:22] the like glory story of the pandemic [26:25] where it was so nice. We got to reset. [26:27] We didn't have to work. Like we're all [26:29] hustling. And [26:31] >> I don't know why we just were determined [26:33] to keep the community alive. [26:36] >> I I maybe I do know why, but it it just [26:39] was this thing that we all had this [26:41] desire to do it. And in in tbh there [26:44] were times when maybe one of us was like [26:45] I don't got it but then the other person [26:47] was there to carry you. So it was really [26:48] truly a partnership. [26:50] >> That idea where partnerships work, where [26:53] when one is weak, the other is strong. [26:55] And where there's deficiencies, someone [26:58] comes up and fills the gap. And and we [27:01] were virtual just for a little, I mean, [27:03] basically as long as we needed to be [27:05] safely, you know, but as soon as we [27:08] could with whatever steps we would need [27:10] to take, whether it was masks or social [27:13] distancing, all that, we were in person [27:15] as soon as we could. And I I think too a [27:19] lot of our community we we love [27:20] co-working spaces and so then we were [27:24] able to use our respective co-working [27:26] spaces to meet. So then that made [27:28] locations easy. [27:30] >> And I think honestly we we've got some [27:33] extroverts. [27:35] I think that helps. [27:36] >> Yeah. Like I am Carol definitely is. Um, [27:40] I don't know if she knows that, but [27:42] really truly this idea of the actual [27:45] definition of extroversion and [27:46] introversion in that the way you process [27:48] energy. So like when Carol and I are [27:51] around others, we gain energy [27:53] >> and [27:54] >> and and and that's not to say because an [27:56] introvert very much can be outgoing, be [27:58] a blast, have fun, but they're they're [28:00] little slowly draining, right? and then [28:02] they need to go recharge on their own [28:04] where like I'm like [28:06] >> just like now this like generator who's [28:08] like all pumped up and then now when I [28:10] like when I come back from a word camp I [28:12] need to make sure I have things [28:13] scheduled because I I'll go into a [28:15] spiral stuper because I'm like I need to [28:18] be around others part of it might be a [28:20] little codependent which I don't like [28:22] that part but but regardless that helps [28:25] bring the energy and so now here we are [28:29] and we've our community has been at one [28:32] time five meetups per month. They all [28:34] had their own like there was like a [28:36] marketing a business developer uh [28:39] general WordPress there was a divvy [28:42] there was a divvy meetup um there was [28:44] woo there there was a like a I mean we [28:46] had so many and every single one of them [28:48] had their own leader and so yes that's [28:51] like ebed and flowed but even right now [28:53] post pandemic in this time Chris you [28:55] talked about like right now we're like [28:56] probably the worst ever especially in [28:58] the states overall when it comes to at [29:00] least community involvement and so we [29:03] are down to one one meet up per month, [29:06] but dear God, we have like fought for [29:09] it. We have kept it. We um we we [29:11] sometimes fight like brothers and [29:13] sisters and amongst like our leadership [29:15] team, but we stay together. And I think [29:17] that's the key. That's what makes a [29:18] healthy partnership, right? Is that [29:20] there's not there's no promises. And I [29:22] don't know where we get in this world [29:23] where you're not going to feel ick or [29:26] annoyance or even be upset with each [29:28] other. But the people who overcome that, [29:31] the people who push through that because [29:33] of I'm going to say it, love, you know, [29:37] like this genuine idea that we we can [29:40] love each other in a capacity that's [29:42] appropriate, you know, for whatever the [29:43] rel relationship is. We've done that. [29:47] >> We've done that as a community. And and [29:50] I don't even say that to sort of brag. I [29:51] just say that to like somehow we just [29:54] like we had to. We had to. We fought for [29:56] it. And our next meetup is actually in [30:00] two days. And and there's been times too [30:03] and and I say I'm saying a lot, but it [30:05] like if anyone's listening and find it [30:07] helpful, like we just have a meetup. [30:10] Even if we didn't plan, there's always [30:13] somebody who could just off the cuff [30:15] talk about WordPress. And and anyone who [30:17] knows how meetups work, you very much [30:18] attract a beginner crowd. [30:20] >> So like almost everybody could just go [30:22] off and and talk about something [30:23] beginner for WordPress. But sometimes [30:26] too when we don't, we'll just have a [30:28] social. We'll just get together at a [30:30] restaurant and just hang out with each [30:32] other. And honestly, after all this, I [30:34] started by saying I think it's cuz we're [30:36] friends. But what we do with the entire [30:39] community, not even leadership team, is [30:41] we cultivate friendliness and warmth. [30:44] And we invite after every meetup, every [30:47] meetup, almost just about every meetup, [30:49] we invite everyone out to come out with [30:51] us and to like get break bread together, [30:54] you know, or or just even just hang out [30:56] together. And and I think that that [30:59] helps. I think that when people come to [31:01] our meetup, they feel welcomed. They [31:04] feel cared for. And and and that's [31:07] saying something because there are times [31:09] when even I showed up to a meetup and [31:10] I'm like, I am not well. I am worthless [31:14] right now. And I don't mean worthless [31:15] like my self worth, but meaning like to [31:17] the event itself because I'm going [31:19] through life [31:20] >> and the rest of the team has my back, [31:22] you know, so I could be off, you know, [31:24] still supporting but also struggling and [31:27] they've got me and it's vice versa as [31:29] well. And so that was a lot. [31:33] Um, and I and I feel like that segus [31:36] into like our response to Word Camp us, [31:38] but I'll let you we could talk about [31:39] that later if that's if you got a a [31:41] structure. No, I was I was I was just uh [31:44] I I have no structure. Never. Uh no, I [31:48] was going to I was going to try to [31:49] highlight I think um what Carol said, [31:52] which I don't remember off the top of my [31:53] head exactly, but for anyone who didn't [31:55] watch uh the the re the video or wasn't [31:58] there or isn't really in the WordPress [32:00] community who might be uh catching this, [32:01] it was something to the effect of um [32:04] like uh because the Phoenix community [32:06] hadn't been contacted, consulted before [32:10] the decision was made. Um, and it so [32:12] sort of a response to that and and uh [32:14] basically saying like please, you know, [32:17] we are here and we are passionate and we [32:19] want to contribute and we want to be [32:21] part of this and Phoenix is a special [32:23] place and there are special people and [32:25] let's make this really good. And I [32:26] thought that that was a really good [32:27] thing to close on. Um, and I also [32:29] thought it was a pretty good thing to [32:31] just call out, uh, because, um, there [32:35] was a point in time, um, which is maybe [32:38] a peak behind the curtain for, uh, for [32:40] folks that are outside the WordPress [32:42] community. Uh, there was a point in time [32:43] when cities would petition for, uh, [32:46] being the host of Word Campus US. And I [32:49] think basically postco that kind of that [32:51] kind of stopped and cities were just [32:53] just unilaterally selected um based on I [32:57] don't know someone's criteria not mine. [33:00] Um so like that was a little bit of a [33:03] like okay this was done that's cool but [33:06] also come talk to us because you know we [33:09] can help. [33:10] Well, and the the [33:14] I don't know if it's ironic, it might be [33:16] coincidence, but we were one of those [33:18] cities [33:20] >> twice. We applied in 2014 and in 2018 [33:24] and so we applied the inaugural year and [33:27] it was it Philly was chosen and we all [33:30] kind of felt like, oh, that's perfect. [33:31] It's where Kimp US. It's like the [33:33] birthplace of, you know, America, you [33:36] know, and and it was it were great [33:38] events. I loved it. And and I'll never [33:40] forget also asterisk. I'll never forget [33:43] it was one of the two years. I think it [33:44] was the second year or the first year, I [33:47] don't remember, but like walking up and [33:49] there's Josh. I don't know how to say [33:51] his last name standing in what was this [33:53] silhouette of a Pantheon just and it was [33:58] someone else. It was just them two just [33:59] both kind of like this just smiling and [34:02] not really knowing what to do but [34:03] standing in what was their booth. Mhm. [34:06] Mhm. [34:06] >> You know, but anyway, that total aster [34:09] have to go into that, but like they were [34:11] great events and and forever we still [34:13] tell these stories 10 years later. We [34:16] still tell these stories and and then [34:18] the next two years it was Nashville. And [34:20] then that year we we applied. It was [34:23] myself, Carol, and uh someone who moved [34:26] out of the out of Phoenix, but his name [34:28] was um Justin Tucker. And Carol, Justin [34:30] and I, oh my god, we just we just loved [34:33] each other deeply. and we poured our [34:35] blood, sweat, and tears in this to [34:37] amazing application that was just over [34:41] the top amazing. I mean, there's to this [34:43] day, there's no doubt in my mind our our [34:46] proposal was just the winner, but it [34:48] wasn't chosen based on that. It was I I [34:51] honestly don't technically know why, but [34:53] they ended up choosing St. Louis. And so [34:57] St. Louis got the one year, but then the [34:58] pandemic hit. So then So yes. So then [35:01] post pandemic they essentially stopped [35:03] the call for cities and then chose you [35:06] know San Diego then DC and then Portland [35:08] based on other reasons and apparently [35:11] still with Phoenix. So, you know, so at [35:15] first that was kind of our reaction was [35:18] one just utter shock and I was lucky [35:21] enough to be sitting next to Mark [35:22] Zamanssky who caught my my very raw [35:26] reaction on camera. Um, which just [35:29] cracked me up. Um, but also we just it [35:33] it's literally balancing both elation [35:36] and also like like my what I said on the [35:40] video. What the [35:43] you know, and and a little bit like, [35:45] bro, serious, like we applied and all [35:48] this and now and so caught off guard, [35:51] you know, um but we can't I think that's [35:54] also what makes us an amazing community [35:56] is we are very forgiving. We are very [35:59] gracious and we hold those values. Um, [36:02] but also I I I'm confident enough to say [36:05] I mean we're nobody's perfect, but we I [36:08] think it affects our community as a [36:11] whole and I think that people know that [36:14] and they see that and that people [36:16] actually do get better within our [36:18] community. I I see it within our own [36:20] leadership team like the things that we [36:22] say I see us getting better. And so to [36:26] that point, we're the best team to to to [36:29] blindside [36:30] >> because we're like over here like, [36:32] "Yeah, that kind of sucked." But but [36:35] hey, but we're going to do our darnest [36:37] to be a part of this and to help. [36:39] >> And on a personal note, I've said this. [36:42] I literally live in downtown Phoenix. [36:44] Like right now, I'm in downtown Phoenix. [36:45] Like all the clips of that video is like [36:47] my backyard. And because I I live in a [36:50] like three-story townhouse, so there I [36:51] don't have a backyard. like the so like [36:54] it's literally like where I go and hang [36:55] out and play. So I'm like personally [36:58] even compared to the rest of WordPress [37:00] Phoenix. I'm like guys this is literally [37:03] where I live. You guys coming it's going [37:05] to be like I'm hosting you and I I'm [37:08] going to I don't care what anyone says. [37:10] I'm just naturally going to host because [37:11] I love hosting anyway. So [37:15] um so my my impression uh is that you're [37:18] you uh are not necessarily a as much of [37:22] a code contributor but you're definitely [37:23] uh a a contributor to the overall [37:27] WordPress community. um [37:30] >> talk about how [37:33] being involved in the community and can [37:36] other types of of contributions, how how [37:39] to value those things because I feel [37:41] like a lot of times particularly in [37:44] development communities, we get so [37:45] caught up in contributor with a capital [37:48] C meaning somebody who actually makes [37:50] commits to core. Um, and I very strongly [37:53] believe that there are many other ways [37:54] to contribute to the ecosystem of a [37:56] development community that are outside [37:59] of contributing to the core [38:02] nugget of software that is the thing [38:04] around which we you know circumn like [38:07] there's all sorts of other things uh out [38:10] there. Um, to talk about how like you [38:14] how that affects you or how your sort of [38:16] perception of of this uh sort of kind of [38:20] Yeah. not contributing to the community [38:22] in ways that don't involve code. [38:26] >> Sure. One, full disclosure, I do have a [38:29] core contributor badge. [38:30] >> Great. I do, too. I It's probably a [38:33] total of five lines of code that I've [38:35] committed. [38:37] >> Okay. Well, mine is is not even remotely [38:40] close. It's because I I helped when last [38:44] update almost a year ago, there was some [38:46] problems with Divvy and I was still [38:47] working for Elegant Paints. I like was [38:50] there as the mediator helping everyone [38:52] solve it as fast as possible. So, [38:53] somebody gave me props and I'm like, [38:54] "Yay!" [38:55] >> I I got I got props for uh in in [38:58] WordPress uh 6.4 for advocating to take [39:03] the font manager out of WordPress [39:07] because uh of things of of the way it [39:09] would would have been implemented [39:10] because it wouldn't work on on uh [39:12] Pantheon as as designed at first. So, [39:14] like I got props for not doing a thing. [39:18] not nice. I'm like, however you get it, [39:20] like I'm just cracking up at that. But [39:22] but I think I think that it goes back to [39:26] what I was referring to earlier and that [39:30] there is this belief in this project [39:33] that supersedes code because it it [39:38] really isn't about the code. It is about [39:40] the community at the end of the day. [39:42] Even those who contribute to the code, [39:44] even the like the like dedicated core [39:47] contributors like they like why do we [39:50] stay, you know, and and this has been [39:52] the why in in humanity for so long yet [39:57] it never fails that we get away from it, [39:59] you know? I just crack up. I just think [40:01] about like the early 2000s of Starbs. I [40:05] used to so I worked for STABS for five [40:07] years in the early 2000s and I called it [40:09] the golden years. Like we still had to [40:11] learn to be a barista. I still had to [40:13] learn how to pull a shot, how to gauge [40:15] the the outside temperature and humidity [40:17] to make sure you get that perfect shot [40:18] where now it's all a machine and you [40:20] know, whatever. [40:21] >> And but like everything was about being [40:23] the third space, you know? They wanted [40:26] Starbucks to be the third space. They [40:27] wanted people to come not because of the [40:30] coffee, but because of the people. And [40:33] and so somehow maybe that was like the [40:35] start of it for me. And then I come from [40:40] I'm exeangelical now, but I come from an [40:43] evangelical world and all the church [40:46] life I was a part of and communities [40:48] were like they were like [40:51] peacocking and it was the who's who and [40:53] it was like [40:54] >> probably more like closed software where [40:57] you go to some event and you can't get [40:59] in to the clicks you know because and [41:02] figuratively and literally you know [41:04] people be circled up with their backs [41:06] you know so then you're not welcoming [41:08] and that was what I was used to so I'm [41:09] used to going to these church [41:11] conferences and disclosure full [41:13] disclosure not every community church [41:15] community is like that but the one I was [41:17] a part of was a very rockstar vibe [41:19] and just felt like I couldn't ever get [41:22] in. And here's like a very friendly [41:26] person and I like one of those who loves [41:29] humans. Like people like I don't like [41:31] dogs. I mean I don't like humans. I love [41:33] dogs. And I'm over here like I like dogs [41:34] and I love humans, you know, and and yet [41:37] I I just felt like I was never good [41:39] enough in these church communities. Then [41:41] I go to Word Camp San Diego 2012 and I'm [41:46] like [41:48] my mind is blown. Just absolutely blown [41:51] because so many people kept coming up to [41:54] me just wanting to get to know me even [41:57] at on a simple introduction level for no [41:59] reason. No reason at all. Just because I [42:02] was there. [42:03] >> And I couldn't believe it. I could not [42:05] believe it. I was just flabbergasted and [42:08] I was beaming. I remember leaving that [42:11] just like I couldn't stop smiling. I was [42:12] just like, why do I feel so good? And I [42:15] just wanted more. I wanted more. And I [42:17] think that's honestly the effect that [42:20] this open-source project has on people [42:23] because one, it is a a very noble thing [42:25] to fight for. The why of the project [42:28] still amazes me, you know, to [42:30] democratize publishing. Like it still is [42:33] so [42:34] the idea behind open source is is really [42:38] beautiful. I mean in every sense and and [42:40] and open source doesn't just apply [42:42] necessarily to code. It applies to [42:44] science, you know, it applies to like [42:46] >> research and to this idea that we give [42:49] it to everybody. [42:50] >> Like I I don't it it baffles my brain [42:54] how and I don't mean to take it places. [42:58] Maybe I do, but like how capitalism [43:01] could come in and change that. And I am [43:03] not anti- capitalism, but I am anti- [43:05] what capitalism is today. and and it [43:08] takes away. So, I'm going to fight this [43:10] fight for this project and yeah, no, [43:12] this is not my world. I I mean, yes, in [43:14] high school I I love science and math, [43:16] but I also was like this crazy [43:18] performing artist. And here I am in this [43:21] community and my gift is human [43:22] connection in events and yet I found my [43:25] place. So and so at this is a lot to say [43:29] but essentially my contri contributions [43:31] to the community have been that yeah [43:33] >> have been very much like very active in [43:37] planning word camps and planning meetups [43:39] in being involved with um contributor [43:42] day and even some of the community [43:44] summits that have happened over the past [43:45] decade and that really is truly [43:49] contributing [43:50] >> contributing to this project and when [43:51] you think about it [43:53] >> I would say it's very high up there [43:54] community because we we yes we wouldn't [43:58] be here without the code and the code is [43:59] absolutely important and I don't think [44:00] anyone's taken away from that but the [44:03] people who are who are working on the [44:04] code together need to get along and you [44:08] know and and have safe space and feel [44:13] welcome because we I think ended up [44:17] ignoring feelings and I think over time [44:20] society has done this but it never takes [44:22] away from the fact of how important it [44:24] actually is and yeah we need to subdue [44:27] our feelings and yeah there's times our [44:29] feelings lie to us but on on the basis [44:33] of feelings is why we do anything and [44:36] everything [44:37] >> and if I don't feel welcome I'm not [44:39] going to be part of a community I don't [44:41] care how good the code is I'm not going [44:43] to be part of it [44:44] >> so I mean ultimately that has really [44:47] been like [44:48] >> mainly where I've contributed is all [44:50] over the the up and down inside and out [44:53] is is basically to the human [44:55] contribution to WordPress and it is [44:57] truly because I believe in it. I do [44:59] believe in WordPress. I do believe in [45:01] owning your own data. I have this [45:03] vision. I haven't figured it out yet, [45:05] but how to bring it to Gen Z and help [45:07] Gen Z understand that this is important [45:09] to our world, especially the more and [45:11] more we're giving ourselves away, [45:13] especially with AI and we need to have a [45:16] place where it's ours. And the best way [45:18] I know how to contribute to that is [45:21] through human connection. And I don't [45:23] know if that was fully answering your [45:24] question, but that is how I contribute. [45:27] And if that gives anyone else any [45:28] inspiration or any ideas, then there it [45:31] is. [45:33] >> Uh talk about So you're getting ready [45:35] for Presscon 2026. Uh announcements been [45:37] made. Tickets are available, I think. Uh [45:41] pre-order or something. Yeah, tickets [45:42] are available. [45:43] >> Um working on uh event logistics, I'm [45:46] sure. talk about um what uh what you're [45:50] doing uh in planning for 2026 uh as much [45:54] as you can or as much as you're willing [45:56] to and and what people can expect to [45:59] find at Prescom 2026. [46:02] >> Yeah. So early bird tickets, we call [46:05] them startup startup tickets are on sale [46:08] right now and they last through the end [46:09] of the month and we are keeping a lot of [46:13] it the same in that still smaller and [46:16] intimate um and [46:20] still in the same place at Tempe Mission [46:22] Palms. And uh we are right now very much [46:26] in the speaker and sponsor uh stage of [46:31] planning the conference. So we reverse [46:34] engineer speakers. You know we don't we [46:36] don't do a call for speakers and submit [46:39] your talk. Uh most of the speakers come [46:42] because we get some idea and then we [46:45] hang out with somebody and we're like we [46:48] want you to speak and here's [46:52] let's just all brainstorm some ideas. [46:54] >> And we want all of these topics to sort [46:56] of fit that vibe of you know being raw [47:00] and vulnerable from the stage, sharing [47:02] from your heart uh also sharing from [47:05] your knowledge and your intellect. [47:07] uh there's only 11 sessions. We think uh [47:11] that could change, but right now we we [47:13] also reverse engineered it by planning [47:16] our entire schedule first [47:18] >> and then filling, you know, and and so [47:21] it's it's a lot of strategery. I say [47:23] that word all the time. It just makes me [47:25] laugh. But um [47:26] >> yeah, we have to be real strategic with [47:28] it. Um so so some speakers actually and [47:32] it even happened last year very few have [47:35] like just reached out and you know and [47:38] if it fits then then it works and that [47:41] did happen a couple times last year uh [47:44] and probably this year as well. So [47:46] that's like the big thing right now. Um [47:49] I do have uh a team and actually Carol [47:52] is my speaker coordinator but a lot of [47:55] it is it is mostly it's me on every [47:58] single team and not because of [47:59] micromanaging but because it is still [48:02] it's my business and I'm the one at the [48:04] end of the day who has to like you know [48:06] make all this happen and everyone else [48:07] is still running their business [48:09] businesses as well. So [48:12] >> uh so yeah we're very much in that part [48:14] and that one's going to take a while. [48:15] It's not easy. it I would say it's even [48:17] harder because there's not a lot of [48:19] sessions one and every single one of [48:21] those got to drop the mic [48:24] >> you know and we also um I won't share [48:28] too much about this part yet not that [48:30] only because we're still figuring it out [48:32] but I'm very open I love to share but [48:34] we're we're figuring out our our our [48:36] theme [48:37] >> for this year we end up kind of [48:39] organically coming up with a theme and [48:41] last year it was [48:43] >> it ended up being like let's get better [48:45] together which is very if I crack up [48:48] because I am an overgrown child and [48:49] people hear that and it probably sounds [48:51] like some '9s kid something which let's [48:53] just be honest it kind of is uh but it [48:56] was really needed you know in the midst [48:58] of all the drama and I just really so [49:02] heavy on my heart to provide a space [49:03] where everyone could come and feel [49:05] welcome [49:06] >> um all parties in you know in the [49:09] WordPress space right [49:11] >> this year it's a little different not [49:13] that we're not still in the middle of [49:15] some of the drama or it's still playing [49:18] itself out, but [49:19] >> but now we're trying to understand and [49:22] navigate how to move forward and get [49:24] better, you know? So, yes, we were like, [49:26] let's get better together. Okay, now [49:28] next year it's like now how are we doing [49:30] that, right? [49:31] >> You know, what does that look like? So, [49:34] there's some of a theme there that we're [49:36] we're still figuring out. And then, [49:38] yeah, and then we're we're actually uh [49:41] at work where Camp US, we're having lots [49:42] of meetings with potential sponsors. So, [49:45] we're really excited. Me and Adam Weeks, [49:48] he's my sponsor guy. We are like [49:52] revamping and making it even more uh [49:55] valuable for our sponsors and getting [49:57] really clear on how to provide value for [50:00] all the sponsors. And so, I'm honestly [50:03] really really excited. But those are the [50:06] two biggest things right now that has [50:07] taken up all of my life currently. [50:11] >> Well, thank you so much Raquel for [50:12] coming on uh the show. Uh, where can [50:14] people find you on the internet? [50:18] >> Um, I'm pretty much anywhere. Some [50:20] variation of Raquel Karina. Uh, so and [50:24] if people are in WordPress, I'm sure [50:25] I'll pop up because I'm sure we have [50:27] mutual, you know, followers and friends [50:29] and all that. And, uh, email, it's you [50:34] could do recelancious.com. [50:37] And um I'm on almost every WordPress [50:40] Slack instance and I am at Raquel, every [50:44] single one of them. So it's pretty easy. [50:47] >> Yeah. Yeah, [50:47] >> that seems seems legit. All right. Well, [50:49] thanks again uh for coming on. Thanks [50:51] for everyone uh tuning in to this [50:53] episode and we'll see you on the [50:55] internet.