Fireside chat with Q&A | Mary Hubbard and Matt Mullenweg 🔗 **Source:** [Fireside chat with Q&A | Mary Hubbard and Matt Mullenweg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [WordPress, Governance, AI, Community, Security, Education] > author: [MISSING] > source: WordPress (YouTube) > reference: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY] > date created: > > # 🏷️ Title: Fireside chat with Q&A | Mary Hubbard and Matt Mullenweg > <!-- deep-read:sections start --> ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - Include links cited in or relevant to the article. ## 📝 Summary - Mary Hubbard and Matt Mullenweg held a WCEU 2025 Q&A. :contentReference[oaicite:0]{index=0} - They discussed EU compliance, AI, security, and contributor programs. - Plugin security scanning and AI-assisted reviews advance. :contentReference[oaicite:1]{index=1} - WordPress Credits links 150 hours to six university credits. Pilot launches June 25, 2025. :contentReference[oaicite:2]{index=2} - Data Liberation aims for easy imports and exports across platforms. :contentReference[oaicite:3]{index=3} - Bottom line: WordPress pushes output-focused governance and safer growth. ## 📖 Main Content - The session framed regulation as tradeoffs for UX and privacy. - Matt emphasized unintended effects from cookie banners and consent flows. - FAIR-like mirrors raise supply-chain and telemetry challenges for .org. - The plugin directory invests in scanners and phased rollouts. :contentReference[oaicite:4]{index=4} - AI priorities include testing, security, chat interfaces, and admin tooling. - Five for the Future should show outcomes, not only pledges. :contentReference[oaicite:5]{index=5} - WordPress Credits and Campus Connect widen the pipeline for contributors. :contentReference[oaicite:6]{index=6} - Data Liberation renews importer focus to compete with SaaS. :contentReference[oaicite:7]{index=7} - A 6.9 release path materializes for late 2025. :contentReference[oaicite:8]{index=8} - Uncertainties include sustainability team scope and marketplace trust metrics. ### 🗒️ Notes #### ### [H1] EU consent banners reduce real privacy gains — ⏱️ [00:11](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=11) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “People just click through cookie banners; browsers could reject by default.” Short-term UX improves little; explore browser-first controls. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=11) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H2] Open Web Alliance coordination benefits EU policy — ⏱️ [02:33](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=153) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “TYPO3, Drupal, and Joomla align on policy; we should support them.” Coordinate with EU hosts for advocacy. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=153) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H3] FAIR-style mirrors raise supply-chain risks — ⏱️ [28:56](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=1736) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “More mirrors mean more compromise points and broken analytics.” Mitigate with signing, attestations, and rollout controls. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=1736) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H4] Scanner expansion targets plugin updates — ⏱️ [08:21](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=501) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “We’ll scan plugin updates, not only new submissions.” Use AI triage plus human review. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=501) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H5] WordPress Credits ties hours to degree credits — ⏱️ [12:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=744) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “150 contribution hours equal six college credits; pilot starts June 25.” Track retention and mentor load. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=744) #articleseed #share ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H6] Generative AI scales review and testing — ⏱️ [18:14](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=1094) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “Agents can write tests and automate project chores.” Pilot on abandoned plugins with guardrails. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=1094) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H7] Ecosystem counters “WordPress is stagnating” — ⏱️ [20:02](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=1202) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “Plugin submissions doubled; backlog cleared.” Quantify growth with transparent stats. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=1202) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H8] Sustainability should embed across teams — ⏱️ [35:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=2145) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “Environmental work belongs in every handbook and workflow.” Define measurable outcomes and stewards. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=2145) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H9] WooCommerce invests to match SaaS polish — ⏱️ [47:28](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=2848) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “Performance, checkout, and partnerships get heavy investment.” Map parity gaps and timelines. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=2848) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] #### ### [H10] Data Liberation needs best-in-class importers — ⏱️ [49:24](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=2964) > [!quote] YouTube (WordPress channel). Accessed . > “Make switching from Shopify and others easy again.” Prioritize importers by market share. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY&t=2964) #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ## 📚 References - YouTube: Fireside chat video (WordPress channel). [link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY) :contentReference[oaicite:9]{index=9} - WordCamp Europe 2025 session page. [link](https://europe.wordcamp.org/2025/session/fireside-chat-with-mary-hubbard-and-matt-mullenweg/) :contentReference[oaicite:10]{index=10} - WordPress.tv listing for the session. [link](https://wordpress.tv/speakers/mary-hubbard/) :contentReference[oaicite:11]{index=11} - Data Liberation project hub. [link](https://wordpress.org/data-liberation/) :contentReference[oaicite:12]{index=12} - Data Liberation 2024 announcement. [link](https://wordpress.org/news/2024/01/data-liberation-in-2024/) :contentReference[oaicite:13]{index=13} - Plugin submissions doubled in 2025. [link](https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2025/05/21/the-wordpress-ecosystem-is-growing-new-plugin-submissions-have-doubled-in-2025/) :contentReference[oaicite:14]{index=14} - Plugins Team: scanner upgrades and AI checks. [link](https://make.wordpress.org/plugins/2025/07/12/team-name-change-to-plugins-team/) :contentReference[oaicite:15]{index=15} - WordPress Credits program announcement. [link](https://wordpress.org/news/2025/07/introducing-wordpress-credits-a-new-contribution-internship-program-for-university-students/) :contentReference[oaicite:16]{index=16} - TechRadar WCEU 2025 live coverage. [link](https://www.techradar.com/pro/live/wordcamp-europe-2025-all-the-latest-news-and-updates-as-they-happen) :contentReference[oaicite:17]{index=17} - Roadmap to 6.9. [link](https://make.wordpress.org/core/2025/07/28/roadmap-to-6-9/) :contentReference[oaicite:18]{index=18} ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - The speakers assess EU rules, trust, and infrastructure risks. They propose pragmatic, measurable approaches for safety and growth. - They outline AI, Credits, and Data Liberation as levers. They stress outputs, importers, and mentorship to renew momentum. ## 📰 Newsletter - WCEU 2025’s final chat delivered substance. Watch the session and share with your team. :contentReference[oaicite:19]{index=19} - Highlights: plugin scanner upgrades, Data Liberation importers, and the Credits pilot. :contentReference[oaicite:20]{index=20} - Resource pack: WCEU session page and 6.9 roadmap. :contentReference[oaicite:21]{index=21} ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Publish a “Credits-ready” onboarding kit with mentor rubrics. #articleseed - Record demos of importer workflows for top five platforms. #articleseed - Add DX samples for AI-written unit tests against core APIs. #xref - Run quarterly security office hours on plugin scanning changes. #share #### OSPO - Draft a signing and attestations policy for plugins and mirrors. #articleseed - Propose phased-rollout governance for updates with rollback criteria. #xref - Define output KPIs for pledges and publish dashboards quarterly. #addendum - Create SBOM guidance and freshness SLOs for internal WP stacks. #xref #### Community - Relaunch sustainability guidance as embedded checklists in handbooks. #articleseed - Open a CampTix working group with ownership, backlog, and release plan. #xref - Evaluate Meetup alternatives with data portability guarantees. #articleseed - Stand-up “mentor-of-mentors” circles for Campus Connect. #share #### WordPress - **Core:** Ship a testing harness for AI-generated patches with traces. #articleseed - **Core Performance:** Tie perf budgets to release criteria. #xref - **Core AI:** Publish secure capability registry for agent access. #articleseed - **Core Program Team:** Track input→output mapping on profiles. #addendum - **Playground:** Offer importer sandboxes for migration rehearsals. #xref - **Training:** Build a 150-hour Credits curriculum map with milestones. #articleseed - **Marketing:** Tell “switch stories” enabled by importers. #share - **Meta:** Expose plugin scanner results to maintainers via API. #xref - **Hosting:** Coordinate phased rollouts and failure drills. #articleseed - **CLI:** Add `wp import <source>` verbs aligned to Data Liberation. #xref #### The WPOCC - Fund microgrants for importer bounties and mentorship sprints. #articleseed - Publish a transparent ledger for stipend experiments and outcomes. #addendum - Run governance clinics for plugin marketplace trust signals. #xref ### FAIR - Define signature policies and provenance checks for federated repos. #articleseed - Publish operator agreements and sunset clauses to prevent capture. #addendum - Ship scorecards for supply-chain risk across mirrors. #xref ## 🧪 Hypotheses - H1: Scanner+AI reduces critical plugin vulns per 10k sites by 30%. - H2: Credits increases 6-month contributor retention by 20%. - H3: Importer upgrades raise Woo migration rate from Shopify by 15%. - H4: Output dashboards improve sponsor satisfaction scores by 25%. - H5: Phased rollouts halve incident rates from plugin updates. ### 📊 Methodology - Compare vuln rates pre/post scanner rollout with matched cohorts. - A/B universities in Credits vs. similar non-participants. - Track importer usage and destination conversions over quarters. - Survey sponsors pre/post dashboard shipping; analyze changes. - Simulate staged rollouts on canary cohorts across hosts. ### ❓ Questions - Which import paths deliver the highest switching value? - Where do mirrors add resilience without harming telemetry? - How do we measure mentorship quality in Credits? - Which AI tests reduce reviewer time while preserving rigor? - What trust signals users actually use when selecting plugins? ### 🔮 Future Research - Evaluate signing, attestations, and revocation at scale. - Build a portability index across top CMS and commerce platforms. - Study long-term outcomes for Credits alumni across roles. - Model phased rollout safety nets across multi-host deployments. - Map sustainability metrics to event and infra decisions. ### 💡 Implications - Stronger supply chains protect users and reputation. - Output metrics align sponsors, maintainers, and roadmaps. - Importers convert market share without vendor lock-in. - Mentorship expands capacity and diversity. - Embedded sustainability reduces fragmentation and drift. ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment - Reading level estimate: Flesch-Kincaid Grade ≈ 9–10 (short sentences). #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: timestamped anchors and structured bullets. - Improve: importer flowcharts and rollout diagrams. #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: session video. - Improve: 3-minute narrated recap and podcast cut. #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: definitions and concise claims. - Improve: glossary for rollout and provenance terms. #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Playground sandboxes. - Improve: hands-on importer labs and checklists. #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: KPIs, hypotheses, and methods. - Improve: decision trees for rollout gates. #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: mentorship and office hours. - Improve: cohort guides and peer reviews. #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: self-paced notes. - Improve: reflection prompts and quizzes. #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: sustainability embedding. - Improve: lifecycle impact worksheets. ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: clear headings. - Improve: robust alt text and ARIA only as needed. #### Keyboard navigation - Present: logical order. - Improve: visible focus and skip links everywhere. #### Contrast and readability - Present: high-contrast text. - Improve: line-height and large-text checks. #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: responsive content. - Improve: prevent clipping at 200% zoom. #### Media and captions - Present: recorded session with captions. - Improve: audio descriptions and downloadable transcript. #### Forms and interactions - Present: labeled controls on .org tools. - Improve: inline validation and generous targets. #### Standards reference - Map gaps to WCAG 2.2 AA criteria. ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: global programs and WCEU setting. - Improve: localized importer docs and examples. #### Inclusive language - Present: jargon mostly defined. - Improve: more plain-language summaries. #### Neurodiversity support - Present: predictable structure. - Improve: icon+text labels and chunking. #### Representation - Present: student and educator focus. - Improve: highlight contributors from underrepresented groups. #### Psychological safety - Present: moderated Q&A norms. - Improve: publish escalation paths and CoC reminders. ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - [H4]: Scanning updates improves security; evidence aligns with best practice. Clarify baseline metrics. :contentReference[oaicite:22]{index=22} - [H5]: Credits strengthens pipeline; plausible given incentives. Specify retention KPIs. :contentReference[oaicite:23]{index=23} - [H10]: Importers drive adoption; supported historically. Add conversion data. :contentReference[oaicite:24]{index=24} #### Fallacies - [H7]: “Doubled submissions” counters stagnation; correlation is not causation. Add quality measures. :contentReference[oaicite:25]{index=25} - [H3]: “Mirrors harm analytics” assumes no mitigations. Reframe with signed metadata. #### Tone of voice - Pragmatic, occasionally promotional; Q&A format tempers claims with caveats. ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: None apparent. - Attack: None; criticism focused on ideas, not people. - Reverse victim/offender: None; speakers acknowledged tradeoffs and constraints. ## 🎯 Conclusion - WordPress focuses on measurable outputs, safer supply chains, and open migration. - Immediate next steps: ship importer improvements, publish output dashboards, and staff Credits mentorships. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix (append after 🎯 Conclusion) ### 📚 Literature Split Pad - Purpose: Stage Konik CEE units that become per-source Literature notes. - Split level: **H3**. - Include verbatim quotes under 25 words and a [view highlight] link. ### [H1] 5–10-word present-tense claim > [!quote] [Fireside chat with Q&A | Mary Hubbard and Matt Mullenweg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY) by [an unnamed author]] via [[WordPress (YouTube)]]. Published [MISSING]. Accessed . > “Short quote, verbatim, ≤25 words.” Two lines: context and use. Cite data if relevant. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_[MISSING] ### [H2] 5–10-word present-tense claim > [!quote] [Fireside chat with Q&A | Mary Hubbard and Matt Mullenweg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY) > “Short quote, verbatim, ≤25 words.” Two lines: context and use. [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY#H2) #xref ID:rw_[MISSING] --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) - Purpose: Promote reusable claims into Atomic notes. - Split level: **H4**. - Each item: one idea, present tense, specific, testable. #### [Z1] 5–10-word present-tense claim - Scope/condition in one line. - Pointer to page/time or dataset. - Links: [[Parent-Concept]] [[Related-Idea]] #### [Z2] 5–10-word present-tense claim - Scope/condition in one line. - Pointer to page/time or dataset. - Links: [[Parent-Concept]] [[Related-Idea]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue (Extract by Selection) - Purpose: Capture quick actions or sparks for Fleeting notes. - Extraction: **Select one line** → “Refactor: Extract selection to new note (content only).” - Keep each line short and self-contained. - [F1] Short action — context/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY #fleeting #inbox - [F2] Short action — context/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY #fleeting #inbox - [F3] Short action — context/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY #fleeting #inbox --- <!-- deep-read:sections end --> ## 📺 Video  --- # 📄 Full Transcript *Auto-generated from YouTube captions · timestamps roughly every 30 seconds · [watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzJwYejWUbY)* **[00:13]** Hello, WordCamp. Hello, Mary. Hello. I have a extra special friend that was just given to me. So, we have a third party up on stage tonight. And I love her. Yes, perfect. Perfect. There we go. There we go. That's better. And then that way when I get it home I can show my daughter she's famous. Yeah. Yes, so thank you. Thanks for inviting me to WordCamp Europe. It's my first WordCamp. This is unbelievable. I **[00:43]** absolutely love it. Thank you for having me here. Yeah. Um So, originally when the organizers contacted me, we had talked about a fireside chat and some questions and I know that there's been a lot of questions submitted. Um people are very curious and some really good conversations and debates that are happening. And so, I asked if I could ask Matt these questions directly today. He is willing. So, I'm going to start off with some easy things if that'd be okay. **[01:13]** Let's do it. Let's do it. Um So, in general, we're in we're in Europe, in the beautiful city of Basel. There's been a lot of conversations about EU compliance, regulation. How are you thinking about this for the project? Regulation, real easy. Yep. I wanted to I wanted to just get right into it, you know? I will say that y'all raise it to an art. Um So, there have been uh you know, you I think **[01:44]** some fairly unfairly uh is seen as a place where some is very forward from a regulatory stance, and sometimes those regulations don't necessarily have the hoped for impact. Um although I feel like my um my index finger is much stronger here clicking all those accept cookie things. Uh, it's funny when Americans come to Europe they're like, "What is happening to the web?" Who Has anyone had that experience? Do we have some folks who came? Um, and I'm also curious for the folks **[02:14]** in the EU um, do you feel safer, more secure, more private because of these cookie acceptance things? Okay, I heard some yeses. Let's let's I want to see hands for the yeses. So, that's Do you feel also more secure with the Yes, I feel more I feel more That's more than I would have expected. So, for those who can't see, wait, go back up. I'll do like a quick kind of 15% maybe 20. Um, wow. Well, y'all won. **[02:46]** These banners are everywhere. Um, uh, I don't know if I feel as strongly because I feel like people just click through them. Um, and the sort of reject all can be built in the browsers like Brave and other things. So, there's other ways to address some of that, but um, unintended side effects of some well-meaning regulation. There's lots of going through the uh the various parts of the EU right now. Um, there's a cool uh initiative called the Open Web Alliance, which I believe is what TYPO3, Drupal, and Joomla. Yeah. **[03:18]** And uh and it's nice because a lot of those are a bit more EU-centric uh than us. Uh, but we're in touch with them. We're following it, and we want to support whichever way we can. I feel like that organization and these fellow open source GPL projects with um similar usage characteristics to us are very very aligned. So, it's certain that we can bring our weight and our market share to bear. Um, I think they already have the right policies and the right uh suggestions and feedback to these groups. I would also use this opportunity to suggest **[03:49]** with these some fantastic uh sort of European continent hosting companies like SiteGround, Hostinger anymore. And I feel like those being very large tax-paying businesses with, you know, hundreds or thousands of employees are very, very well suited to influence their legislators, their politicians, even their like country leaders to advocate for for their users as well. Because it's all users of hosting companies could be affected by some of these regulations if they go through as currently written. **[04:19]** Yeah. And another topic specific to the EU which I'm really interested about this because this has been brought to my attention multiple times and with WordCamps and then the more localized local WordCamps it's whether WordPress Foundation or the WordPress community support should establish a legal presence in the EU. And so it kind of tailors or dovetails from there. But given our global reach what is the complexity and the complexity of running events like this? Like is this something that we should prioritize or even be thinking about? **[04:50]** Um it's definitely something I think we should consider periodically and we've done some experiments here. I think it was in Nepal. Um but there's, you know there are some downsides to this as well. Largely from admin overhead, maintenance. We try to keep the WordPress Foundation and the WordCamps in city area fairly lightweight so we can focus as much time and energy on you know, the good stuff. The things that we all come to WordCamps for and you know, the uh bringing new **[05:21]** people into the community and the do actions and all that sort of thing. So I would say that right now I believe our current analysis is that the cost-benefit is not worth setting up more local entities in the various countries that the WordCamps happen, which by the way is different for WordCamp EU every year. I don't want to give away where the next one is but perhaps a different country. Hopefully I'm not not ruining any surprises there. And um And yeah, so I would say right now, no, but we can always readdress that. And **[05:52]** there might be some countries where the overhead is lower than others. Yeah. Yeah. They have to have like a really good like e-company creation thing, like Estonia I believe does. So, there might be some that makes sort of sort of the remote stuff easier. Mhm. Um we don't need like to fly to the country and notarize 50 forms or Or or good partnerships or good relationships that we might be able to forge or see something that expedite some of these issues. Yeah. existing organizations, I think partnership is the best way to go with it. And there's many, many organizations that are very aligned with us. It's not unlike actually uh Charity: Water. Um and actually just met with the **[06:24]** founder there the other day, but it's a fantastic charity. They but they now have his company uh the charity only has 100 something employees, but they've now got like I want to say it was like 9,000 on the ground in Africa through partner organizations. Mhm. And that scaled up from a tenth of that, you know, five or six years ago. Uh drilling wells and things. Mhm. Okay. That's great. Um so, still a part of the EU kind of theme-based cuz I'd like to hit all of the EU things uh today. So, yesterday uh at a side event, the announcement of Project Fair came **[06:55]** out. Um there's highlighted interest, discussions that are happening. How do you see initiatives like this coexisting with WordPress? Dotorg's the infrastructure, etc. Um what would be your ideal outcome? Well, it's open source. So, everything can coexist with WordPress. And I think that's part of the beauty that uh something like this can be written with the APIs that WordPress has. I don't know if I want to comment too much further on it just because kind of just found out about it last night. There hasn't been that much time. There's a lot of code and uh and **[07:26]** complexities. Um you know, I do wish if the team did want to collaborate or the team says we want to be transparent in everything, but it did sort of drop as a surprise. It was worked on in secret for 6 months. But, we can work past that and look at it. I do think things we need to keep in mind are you know, what are users asking for? What are the challenges they're facing around finding the right things, knowing it's secure, getting updates. You know, the stats around how many sites that are hacked are from out-of-date plugins. Um those are the things that are top of **[07:57]** my mind for the plugin directory and um sort of the trust and safety elements of that. Uh for the dot org directory, I think it's actually a super exciting time. If you haven't been following the the plugin scanner improvements, check it out. I think we're approaching a point where we'll be able to scan not just new plugins, but plugin updates. If you can imagine the way that will increase security. There's also fantastic work happening, not just from companies like Patchstack, but also just with applying the frontier models, which of course are getting better every 3 or 4 months, um to find your **[08:28]** vulnerabilities. And they're going to find a lot, so we're we're going to need to apply them to fixing the vulnerabilities, as well. And figure out a method there for uh older or abandoned plugins. Uh we can't just close the plugin because we're still going to leave thousands or tens of thousands sites insecure. But uh we don't want to you know, break any plugins. Um so, I think we need to figure out something like if a plugin hasn't been updated in a year or two, it's abandoned but still active or like some sort of way to again, make the plugin directory **[08:59]** like the most safe, trusted, and performant place uh for WordPress users. And I actually got some cool stats around this from our systems and plugin team because I haven't heard it recently. So, we're now up to 72,000 plugins and themes. This is um about 3.2 terabytes of like zip files. That's not counting all the SVN history and everything like that. So, there's a there's a lot of data there, which is also why we need to make sure like if **[09:31]** 500 mirrors are set up and they're all sucking down the directory, like that could DDoS us. Um and in the last 12 months we've done 630 billion requests. Yeah. With 17.5 billion downloads. Unreal. So, the scale of this is yeah, thank you. Round of applause for the plugin team and the systems team that keeps us going. **[10:02]** And thank you to Barry for getting that to me while you were under the weather. But it's it's funny because it kind of all tailors into one one another even the plugin reviews cuz like I I met with that team today and they are doing phenomenal things and how they're incorporating AI and how they're looking at what the long-term to long-term success of that team will be is going to be great. Thank you very much to the plugin review team. It is Thank you very much. Unbelievable. And and we do talk a lot about the **[10:33]** future future WordPress. There's been a lot of conversations around Five for the Future um and what that will look like. So, the landscape of contribution is changing and we're seeing more companies exploring how to sponsor maintainers directly. Um not just in a way that you check a box that hey, it's Five for the Future and putting my hours up, but uh understanding how critical work gets done. And so, at the same time conversations are are heating up around how we balance this. Um with all of these proposals on the **[11:03]** table, how do you see Five for the Future evolving? And maybe some short-term I I'd love to hear your perspective short-term like how what we can do now as we push forward and then your vision of the long-term Five for the Future plan. I think we made a classic mistake. Actually, that's a lot of managers do, a lot of companies do, and it's funny because I actually talk about this a lot. Which is we were measuring input not output. Um so, I think an interesting way for Five for the Future to evolve uh is not just showing the pledge or the commitment, **[11:33]** but then also putting right next to that, like, what are the results? Um, at least that are legible to us, which most things are. Um, because, you know, work generally involves a change somewhere on wordpress.org that's in a database. It's in an SVN, it's in a ticket, it's in the forum, it's in a translation, it's in a something. And, um, I think it would actually be really cool to enhance the badges. You know, there's the badges on profiles. Put some stats in those. It'd be kind of fun. Show some rolling stats. Some people have like stats. Um, so I I think just putting a lot more **[12:04]** analytics and stats in there would just kind of make it more fun, and I'm curious about that myself. Um, you know, okay. Also just comparing like input to output and it's, uh, so I think that's where we can go a bit with it. Uh, and it will tighten it up quite a bit. You wouldn't frustration I've heard from from some people sponsoring five to the future folks is, how do I know they're working on the right things? Or what's the impact of this? Or is it even aligned with the roadmap? Or is this just kind of in some corner somewhere and it's never going to go into core. **[12:35]** So, um, you know, for at the the sponsoring level, I think people also want to have the highest impact per dollar. Mm. Absolutely. And and understanding where that money is going, how they're sponsoring, and then on top of it what you can actually work on and deliver, which is great. And so a little bit about five to the future, it's it's more tangible execution of WordPress Campus Connect. So, we've recently the rise of WordPress Campus Connect, and we recently expanded it. Um, do you see similar opportunities in universities or students? **[13:06]** What are you thinking or what are your thoughts around WordPress Campus Connect? And then how do you think that's going to reshape the project? Well, we have a little bit of an announcement there. Which is pretty exciting. Um, so it's 150 hours. Mary's actually the expert on this. You should really talk about it. I'm not the expert. I didn't do it. I'm just here to to announce it. Um, so there's been a program that we recently went into a pilot for um, and it started at the University of Pisa. But um, Easy has gotten a signed agreement where **[13:39]** 150 contribution hours will equate to six credits to graduate college. So she can It's actually a Yeah, I'm going to jump in. It's required, isn't it? It's required for the degree, but it really is one of these uh, pet projects that she has been working on behind the scenes for quite some time. Uh, brought it to the forefront and it really does interconnect. It's It's there is opportunity for a future **[14:10]** program. There's an opportunity for internships. There's opportunities to get people um, at younger generations in and looking. And because it's a part of an educational system across Europe, there is not only interest to expand different majors, but there's interest to go to other universities. So, she's been driving this. I'm not taking the credit, but I'm very excited about it and um, Nat will go and speak to the chairman of the board and the board to try to get this to expand, but the pilot will actually launch June 25th. So. **[14:45]** Think about that for a second. 5,000 students. At 150 hours mandated for six college credits. And so if you think about all of the individual pieces that are going on with education, we know that a lot starts with education. But Anant who's launched Campus Connect and we've expanded that and that's all over Africa and that's in the EU. Um, and India obviously. And as he's working through that and that program starts to develop and and develop into something larger, we have the ability to tie these in. We can take Campus Connect to kick off the WordPress **[15:17]** credits program. We can actually get people aligned. The endowment from Automattic actually enables people once they're in these programs, they can apply to come to WordCamp and meet with all of you wonderful people and increase that community vibe, right? Like I like being here. So, we're hoping to create a flywheel, right? A flywheel of new ideas of younger people, which means we need a stronger stronger or a more elaborate larger mentorship program. Also, we can go to them, which I think would be pretty exciting. Um when I first heard **[15:47]** this, I was like, "Oh my goodness, what we going to do with that many people?" Like that's too much. Uh but then I started thinking, "Wow, the opportunities for mentorship, the opportunities to also, you know, convert people to be contributors in other areas. If even 1% of that per semester or per year or per graduating class um becomes a long-term member of the WordPress community, that would be very incredible. Yeah. Uh also, you know, sometimes a question that's come up uh actually it's comes up in Europe more than anywhere else is like, "Oh, are like our WordCamps getting older? **[16:17]** Where are the kiddos?" And so, we have programs obviously in and schools, including as young as like elementary school and everything, but I think this is uh very much has the opportunity to um just blend our demographics a bit more. Mhm. And again, so many opportunities for mentorship and growth. Yeah, so many. And for us to learn. And for us just for us that is great. And now with that um we've talked a lot about AI with we recently announced the AI team and it's a combination of different companies have come together within the project to to to push AI forward. And so, Who's **[16:49]** here from that team? Can you stand up? Okay, we got James. And Pascal. There he is. Pascal, yeah? Of course he is. He's an organizer. we go. There we go. Thank you. We've got 75% of the team here. Yeah, so I I mean I think I think everybody is really interested in understanding um you know, what what your vision is not only like for that team, but AI within the project. And and then I'll let you answer that **[17:20]** one, but then I want to go a little bit more broad with AI and vision of AI and your opinion on it in general. Yeah, send my girl back up. Well, it's hard to drink the water and yeah. Uh I think one of the things that's the team's going to be doing is figuring out where we're going to apply uh our initial efforts. Um Where is the biggest bang for the buck? Uh generative AI has an opportunity to influence a lot of things that we do. And um I'm sure it's started to affect **[17:51]** many people's lives in here already, especially if you listened to me a few years ago when I said to learn AI deeply prior to the launch of ChatGPT. Um the areas I'd be most excited about are, you know, sort of plugin scanner type things, enhancements. Um particularly uh perhaps applying and testing uh writing tests for possible fixes and things. I think there's a lot that could be automated with agents there to allow our our volunteers, our our members of **[18:22]** those teams to scale. Um within WordPress it's hard to imagine a screen that couldn't be or area that couldn't be enhanced. Um obviously a lot around the writing and creation process, brainstorming, prompting. Um you know, the generative AIs are getting quite good at images and video. Which is uh the creativity is being locked there with some of my friends is is so exciting. Um a chat interface to WordPress. Yeah. Um a programmatic way for AIs to **[18:53]** interact. We can expose capabilities from both core and plugins and expose them so the AI can say, "Hey, what can you do?" It says, "Oh, I can do these 100 things." It has a programmatic way to do so securely with authentication. Um you know, uh ways, hooks, essentially standardized ways for plugins to hook into things. So, both like all the e-commerce plugins could expose in the same way to AI the products they offer. So, those products can start to show up in answers for different questions, which by the way, these different systems are starting to actually drive a fair amount of traffic, **[19:25]** which is nice cuz Google isn't sending anything anymore. Well, they're still sending some, but it's definitely like a lot more value is going to the search results page, right? Which has been a trend, honestly. It's not a new one. It's been happening since I think like 2017. Um And there was one last Oh, developer Talk about developer productivity. What's the one I'm missing? I Oh, project administration. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, scaling our ourselves essentially, which I feel like that **[19:56]** that sort of sensor model, which is human plus AI, you know, where you're using more as a productivity tool versus something running on its own with outputs not checked is the most powerful and safest way to use it particularly today. So, but y'all know, if you follow my Twitter, yeah, like a good third of it or half of it is all about AI. Um I've been very excited about this. Started to see the impact and we launched some things at Automattic including AI site builder or BigSky builder. I've seen a number of hosts launch some things. Elementor has some **[20:27]** cool stuff. There's There's a lot of things. Actually, if you look at just AI plugins submitted to the directory, it's huge. And people are using it for translations and so so so many things. So, I think the open ecosystem of WordPress also, where plugins are very very free and open and the backlog's gone. That's right. You remember voice here a year or two ago? We had like a six or eight-month backlog on plugin approval. Yes. I remember that and I wasn't even a part of **[20:57]** part of the project yet. So, yeah, it's very generative time, I think. You know, I We've talked before about sort of moments of like Cambrian explosions in WordPress's evolution and I think we're in one. In fact, I don't have this stat in front of me, but someone might know it like the increase in number of plugin submissions that's happened. It was it was it's staying at 6,000. Is David in here? It doubled from last year. And there's no backlog anymore. About a week? **[21:28]** Yeah, that's that's nothing. Cool. That that's amazing. And also you know, when some people are sort of like throwing haterade like WordPress is dead or it's slowing down or something. I think a really great counter example. Yeah. Well, then but every example you've just given there's a ton of low hanging fruit. I think it's time that we with the team with the AI. I think we all recognize how much can be done now and it's all about planning it and getting it and then it assigning I guess is like giving visibility into where WordPress should be going, what we should be doing with all of this and **[21:59]** letting people contribute actively. Everybody's talking about AI though. So step out of WordPress. I've had a lot of conversations around AI in general and I um and I and I keep I keep saying over and over again it it's like it's time to put on your futurist hat as generic as that sounds because we're not in an area. I think a lot of companies are playing catch up and they're not at that point, but we are going through a major revolution. So I don't want to know just think about WordPress at this point. There's going to be a ton of products in the ecosystem that spin out a ton of **[22:29]** different directions. What what would you say today that you should be paying attention to not the prompting, but like AI as a futurist, what do you think is going to be happening? Oh, well, I'm very very excited about I mean one cool thing that when you start building this stuff uh you get a tailwind of things getting better for free because the models are improving so quickly or you can just switch between them. So if you talk to teams that have been doing this for call it a year, almost all of them have an example of like something they built that like kind of half worked then a new **[23:00]** model comes out and starts working really well. Uh so that's very cool, those tailwinds. Something I'm most personally excited about are essentially new interfaces. I feel like um we're kind of in the command line stage of of uh AI interfaces. I think chat's great. It's amazing. It's good for a number of tasks. But I'm very very curious to see and experiment with what other interfaces could be. And I know OpenAI is working on some hardware versions of that. Um the final thing I'd say is sort of a **[23:30]** materialized AI. So, things that are with a physical presence, robots. And uh that could be as simple as like the vacuum cleaners getting way smarter. And there's actually one called Matic, no relation to automatic, that my friends are all raving about. Well, it's all these robotic vacuum cleaners. You know, I can't imagine there's going to be that many people mowing lawns and things in the future. It's just so much more convenient to have this done sort of every day with a robot that recharges and docks and everything. And hopefully doesn't run over your cat. **[24:02]** You know, the bugs in this need to be when you get into the physical world, you can't have uh mistakes. Um when I'm going to say Who's taking a Waymo? Oh, only a few people. It's in Phoenix? Yeah, yeah. Like so anyone can call it in Phoenix? Yeah, I think in Austin, too. Um it is incredible. So, in San Francisco uh they were all there for a while. And so Cruise was there. And Cruise, you know, we know how the story ended, shut down. But I would say that I would try them all. And being in a Cruise would felt like a teenage It **[24:35]** should have a student driver sticker on it. Do you all have those here? On America, people start driving at like age 15, their learner's permit, and they get it at 16. Um and uh they usually have a sticker on the car that says watch out, essentially. This is a kid. Um it felt like that. Um the Waymo felt like you know, the most professional driver you've ever been in. Like the the best London taxi cab driver who knows every turn and like is aware of everything and just confident and it uh is so much **[25:07]** better. Actually, right now in San Francisco, people are paying more for Waymos than Ubers. Um just because of the preference. They actually take longer to come and they cost more and people are still choosing it more. They've already passed up Lyft in their usage in San Francisco and um and they're catching up to Uber. It's growing incredibly quickly. And that's the thing that happens with this AI stuff. It goes slowly and then very, very fast. And then finally, the robots. Whether it's humanoid robots like Optimus or other things, I think are going to be um very interesting because much like the **[25:37]** operator models for like OpenAI where they kind of use your computer and click around, uh the world is built for the human sort of form factor. And so, when uh we can start to automate more of that with uh robots, I think very cool stuff could happen. Awesome. Well, I I I want to ask one more question cuz I know that everybody has been asking me this, so I think it would be great to hear from you. We recently launched the AI team. We have uh an automatician that is on it. And so, um I think it was a few weeks back now, uh there was an announcement about returning to WordPress core **[26:08]** contributions. And so, what does this mean in practical terms for the community as well as does it make sense to release uh or to have a 6.9 or another release in 2025? Also, I just realized you can't spell automatic without AI. That could be your team's new tagline. Um uh yeah, I think we can get a 6.9 out this year. And um I'm personally very excited. There's so much I want to release. And there's so much we can do. And I think there's a pretty clear uh **[26:38]** pathway to 7.0 and beyond. And um yeah, we just got to get together and work on it. Um I think it's very easy to become distracted. Mhm. And but I want us debating, and more about software and interfaces and code and sort of like testing things with users and shipping shipping code and seeing how it goes. Um, to me that's where I'd like to get like 80 90% of my conversations to. Yeah. Let's debate about product features. We all we all have opinions on those, too, right? **[27:09]** Well, that's great and these are all of the questions that have been submitted. And so I think at this point we have about 30 minutes left. We can turn it to the audience and there should be some mics Oh, there are. We're a little ahead of schedule, actually. So All right, let's start over there. If you don't mind saying your name and and where you're here from. mind. My name is Milana Tsup. I'm from Serbia. Uh, I've been contributing to documentation team for 14 years and contributing to plugin review team for a couple of years. And my whole work in documentation was **[27:42]** serving uh, user. Every decision we made, we made to serve user. And in plugin review team, we also include plugin authors. So everything we do, we do for plugin authors and users to make their lives easier and better. Now you said you didn't have time to take a look at the fair project. So let me give you a gist. Deeply. Deeply. I took a look at the announcement and everything, but Okay. Let me just give you a quick **[28:14]** gist of the I don't think you need to read it right now. No, no. Uh, so the fair project is actually federated and independent repository of trusted plugins and teams. And it is under a Linux Foundation. So that means a lot when it's under a Linux Foundation. And what it means for uh, users and plugin authors and team authors is actually making their lives easier and better, more secure. It makes **[28:47]** all the products more discoverable, and also developers can choose the source where are they using their supply chain form from. Uh but also it is helping wordpress.org because these are mirrors, so it will, you know, reduce the load from wordpress.org for every updates and all of that. Now that you have a gist and uh you heard me saying, I don't know if you trust me, but **[29:17]** uh it seemed to me that this aligns with the idea of having user and developers first in mind. Would you, um you as wordpress.org, consider uh collaborating with this project? Um of course we consider everything. Okay. But even in what you said, I think there's a lot of challenges to it. Okay. So for example, right now a supply chain attack needs to breach wordpress.org, **[29:50]** which has never been hacked. Um What? What? What? Uh the now all of a sudden there's n places uh that could potentially be compromised. Mhm. Um that's uh you know, there's ways to do that, uh many ways. There's n places with uptime issues. Um there is makes it much more difficult **[30:20]** for I don't know I don't know if it's actually better for wordpress.org cuz it makes it much more difficult to do things like uh uh rollouts, uh phased rollouts, where let's say we get plugin authors the ability to ship to 5% of users and then see what happens, which means we also need things being checked back, and then we can roll out to the rest, which is something that I've heard a ton of plugin authors ask for. Uh it'll break all the analytics and stats that we provide and also that we currently use to make decisions. For example, which versions of PHP we support or how we do databases. So, I **[30:52]** think that it's um a big part of why WordPress is where it is today is because of the infrastructure and the sort of feedback loop that we get from wordpress.org. Also, the trust that we're able to engender by having that be a resource. When you look at marketplaces, um people aren't asking necessarily for I want it to be downloaded from more locations. They're asking for, how do I know this is trustworthy? How do I know these reviews are real? Who's moderating? Who's checking the IPs on these different reviews? **[31:24]** What's the plugin rating? Um what's the compatibility for it? How does it compatible with my other plugins? These are the things I'm hearing from users, not I need it hosted in a different place. Okay, so Just as one example. And again, I don't want to get too far into it cuz I want to read the code. I want to dive more into it. I want colleagues to look at it. So, Yeah. I think it's kind of premature less than 24 hours in to say like we're going to contribute or use this or not. Um but I do think it's awesome that people are shipping code versus just arguing or talking or writing blog post. **[31:55]** And I think that's a pretty productive way to sort of channel possible disagreements or anything. And then we can see how it looks. Might be a super niche thing that a few people use, maybe one or two host, or it might be something that maybe there's something in there that becomes like ultra popular. Um but like things like you know, it was something that we probably need to do in the plugin review team is something about these admin banners. Right? Yeah. Now, how is that enforced in a distributed and fair system? **[32:25]** Well, there are there are there are there are a lot of problems that you just mentioned, but if uh if they are solved, you know, maybe we could actually collaborate with all of that. But how would you solve like a plug-in problem? not the smartest person here. I have no idea how, but I know that we have a lot of smart people and you know, if we talk to each other and collaborate, we can come and there is AI. We can always ask ChatGPT. **[33:04]** I actually saw someone, I think it was Katie, who was like, "What is Matt going to think about fair?" He asked She asked ChatGPT and it was a pretty good answer, actually. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Hello, my name is Sjap Biering. I'm from the Netherlands. Tomorrow is World Ocean Day and our oceans are in danger and they have a immense influence on our **[33:36]** world climate. The Word WordPress team that was working on the our environmental impact of WordPress was dissolved in January and the Slack archive or a Slack the Slack channel was archived. But new recent leadership has come up and contributors over the last 2 days, we worked on contributor day on the new um team for that and we'd love to get going again. **[34:08]** Um we can't do that without Make WordPress and we can't do that without our Slack channel. Mary already got a petition uh about it and we have this question for you. Please, could you reactivate Make uh WordPress and our Slack channel so we can make WordPress more environmental friendly. **[34:53]** I asked you the question, Matt. Should I just drop the mic? Uh in these Q&A's we often pass things to people that know more or more qualified. So but I already know Mary's answer and I'd like to know your answer. Well, everyone else doesn't know Mary's answer. Mary, will you try Will you repeat the answer you already told him? I believe that sustainability, **[35:24]** environmental sustainability, needs to be embedded throughout the WordPress project. I think that sustainability for the WordPress project, as in five for the future, what we're doing for a contributor base, how there's many different initiatives that have kind of gotten together with environmental sustainability and the sustainability of the project. One, I think, should be embedded in all teams. I think that there's a it's a much wider conversation, one of which I did sit in on for a while today. **[35:57]** Um but we need to we need to start reflecting and thinking about how things get done within the project. A lot of times people will start with a team. It's It's an idea and then goes to a team. And my request about sustainability was sustainability should be in everything we do. It's environmental sustainability. This is a no-brainer, it must be done. And so if that's the case, let's take what we have what we've built or the handbooks or the with with regards to events and let's plug in sustainability **[36:27]** in all that and let's have a team that holds those WordCamp organizers or specific teams accountable. But let's not mix sustainability of the project when their ideas have that have come up around how we're going to contribute or reorganizing contributors or how we're going to fund or how we're going to get funding, let's not combine it. Because as I heard Courtney Robinson say today and I heard Sayed Reed say today, we've been having the same conversations over and over and over again. So I have asked to switch. **[36:58]** I've said, "Hey, let's rethink Five for the Future." which is why I asked that question for you today. Let's rethink about how we're going to move the Five for the Future forward, how we're going to reshape this project and reset that for how we're getting that funding in what we're thinking about contribution and let's separate what was sustainability for environment and let's let that environmental safety or in the environmental impact of WordPress go forward in all of the teams. So I actually asked for a rebrand. What's an example to of something that **[37:29]** you know, you feel like an environmental team would focus on or hope for as a result or measure? Well, there is a a framework of uh subjects to think about and they already did quite good work and it was mentioned for example in how to make an environmental um neutral or friendly WordCamps for example. So there was a a handbook for that and it is already used but the team **[38:00]** already then was dissolved and I think it's quite mm disrespectful to the team using it and at the same time having the team dissolved. I I did I am aware of the WordCamp side and that's when we get together in person I think where we have a lot of opportunity for these environmental things. Um I also saw a lot of work around like trying to measure the carbon impact of every WordPress install and some other things that I felt like were a little more abstract. Um, the also I felt like the WordCamp **[38:31]** guideline had a lot of contributors from the WordCamp organizers, not just people on the the sustainability team at the time. But do you have any other examples besides this thing that's already been done that a new team would hope to accomplish or we would measure its success by? There should be done a lot of research. And uh as long as we can't communicate with each other, that will be hard. And if as long as we can't change the information, it will be a team outside WordPress and I don't think that's a good thing. And if you say it's be a rebranding or we **[39:02]** have to think about it, then it's a lot of talking about the team and not about sustainability. And this is what I want to get going. And so you feel like the people working on this need a Slack channel on the .org Slack, not anywhere else, not on a Discord or anything like that, to do this research. If you put it that way, of course not. But we want to be inside WordPress, not like a group outside WordPress, cuz we love WordPress and we think we can **[39:35]** add something to WordPress. Um, I agree, but it needs to be a more concrete proposal. And like Mary said, it doesn't need a and why was it dissolved? Uh, so and this is going to potentially for any team that we need to measure results. And I think that one thing that's been happening is, you know, we have teams that spin their wheels But what kind of proposal and they have a lot of people doing meetings every week and you look at what actually comes out of it and including I talked to a number of people on the team, I read some reports, I reviewed, I **[40:08]** think 12 months of like blog post. Um, it's uh we want to make sure that when it's for example volunteers come, that they're focused on the teams that are moving quickly, iterating, uh uh have a good sort of output culture. And I don't think the sustainability team had that, if I'm really candid. And so, it's important as, you know, project leadership, myself and others. And by the way, this was not a solo decision. It came from a number of people at hey, this might be an area that needs a reboot. Um also sort of separating out this **[40:38]** environ- the environmental side um of to like more like the con- contribution side, which really should be more in a a growth mindset versus just sustainability, right? We don't want WordPress to just sustain. We want to grow and thrive and innovate and create great software. So, even that word, but the word's easy to change. I think what we really have to change is our mindset. And I appreciate you breaking out the sort of uh environmental impact side from everything else. Uh I think it's really helpful because again, we can embed it **[41:08]** in everything we do. Uh but it is tricky. It's an area I've spent a ton of time on on a number of environmental nonprofits over the years. Um I deeply care about this. Uh I also feel like doesn't feel like WordPress, at least for me, is the place to have the biggest impact in the world there. Okay. Well, thanks for your answer. Yep. Hi Matt. My name is Miloš. I'm from Serbia. This is my ninth year organizing **[41:40]** WordCamp Europe. Woohoo! The What? Why I'm mentioning that because you said you like the QR code on back of the badge, and that's not part of the data that we are getting from Contix. Wait, what did you say? Sorry, I missed that. You you said you like the QR code on the back of your page going to Gravatar and all those things. And that's not the data that's coming from Contix that we use for the events. And Contix is getting old. Let's say 9 years. And can we get more **[42:12]** wind in the back to make it better because all the questions that we have or PRs that we need to raise, they are going slow and we have WordCamp every year. Were you saying CampTix? Yes, that's a plugin we use for the event buying tickets, selling tickets printing tickets. Uh-huh. And so the request is to So there is currently no one that is contributing to that project and we want to take over there is no one from meta team that wants to do it, but like we **[42:43]** need help from you or from Mary, it doesn't matter. Sure, where's it hosted right now? Uh somewhere on wordpress.org, but we don't have access and we people we don't have anybody to ask for, nobody is answering. Okay, sure. Okay, thank you. And also let me know where you asked so I can follow up on like why that wasn't responded to or or where it went, what happened to it. Thank you. **[43:15]** Hello Jose. maybe we can really it's not I guess it's not released so other events can't use it so maybe we there's something we can open source there as well. Get it in the plugin directory. It's used for all WordCamps, I know, but like but is it released so like other events could use it? Like could DrupalCon use it or Yeah. Yeah, approve it first. Yeah. That would be great. Cool, thank you. **[43:45]** Hey there Matt, nice to meet you. For the guys with the transcription just transcribe that I am a Matt, but I'm real Matteo, nice to meet you Matt nice to see you again Matt. Hope you're doing doing doing good and hope you'll do back in the after party. Uh last time last time we if you remember we discussed about meetup sites. Today I want to ask you another question still again still about meetups. So, basically after the recent acquisition of meetup.com, I as a meetup **[44:16]** organizer, I have found that meetup is evolving to something that Tell me what do you think about Matt, but I don't think it's what we we want to expect by um you know, the platform we are we want to use for for for for organizing our meetups. So, I have seen that some some people around here are organizing the community are creating a completely new platform that **[44:48]** it basically replace meetup.com. Um what actually I have seen talking with people is um it's still not really that much. So, you have for example, the fact that there is like legal like issues maybe because someone is worried about hosting that on a specific owned website. And there are also issues with having in the **[45:21]** widget of the of the dashboard the the the name of the you know, the the list of events close you have just meetups.com. Uh so, I want to ask you what do you think about the whole situation about meetup.com? What do you think about how meetup.com is going ahead? And well, what do you think about the future of you know, organize or you know, ticketing meetup ticketing? Thank you. Sure. Well, we just talked about tickets a little bit. Um the widget in the dashboard drives a huge amount of **[45:51]** attendance to a lot of different things. And it's like really one of the only ways that someone can go from just a random WordPress user to part of the community. And I think we actually need to look for more ways we can tie that together, not uh not be removing them. The widget probably could use a a design refresh though and be a bit richer. Also how it incorporates online events is a little clunky and if anything we should be doing those a lot more and exposing them perhaps in a parallel way to the geolocated ones. **[46:21]** I if there's a meetup.com parity replacement that's open source, yeah, we'll totally throw it on wordpress.org and uh and switch over. Particularly it'd be great if we could import stuff. I don't know what the rules are there. In the meantime, we got a lot of irons on the fire. And maybe not enough cooks in the kitchen. So yeah, it's it's just one of those things where it's like okay, this is working. So we'll get to it later. But if some **[46:52]** people are working on it now, fantastic. And I'm happy to evaluate it as the project evolves and support it however I can. Thank you so much. Thank you. You'd be amazed how much of this stuff we rely on today that's like part of core, part of wordpress, part of everything started just someone being like, man, I'm annoyed by this. I'm going to fix it. It's basically like the whole plugin system and directory. All right, over here. Hello Mary. Hello Matt. First of all, **[47:23]** thank you to both of you for being here and I guess my question is going to be for the both of you and I would love to hear both answers. So my name is Lilly. We run a web agency specialized in e-commerce, e-commerce automation and compliance in the context of e-commerce in France based in Paris. And in the past year, I mean it's always been the case but in the past year we have been facing mounting and I would even say like severe competition from SAS solutions like Shopify to the point, you know, they're **[47:54]** obviously like very commercialized and extremely well well marketed to the point that even like potential prospects that are not necessarily tech-savvy, they consider Shopify even if it's not adapted to their projects. So, I guess my question is what's Automattic's like short-term and long-term plan in compete in regards to competition with solutions like Shopify? And is there going to be a heavier investment in promoting solutions like WooCommerce? And in general, what's **[48:27]** Automattic's stance on brand advocacy in regards to WooCommerce? Thank you. Sure, thank you. Uh yeah, WooCommerce is incredibly important at Automattic. You know, it's our it's our largest business now, I believe. And so, we invest a lot in the development, the marketing, the usability. Um I'd say that's uh performance is also a big gap I think we've had in some previous versions, and you've seen a lot of **[48:57]** investment in that over the past few releases. Um I think there's still a ton of work to do. And um also partnering with partnering better with hosts to make sure they have great onboarding experiences. I think there'll be partnerships with page builders uh to make Woo more accessible or customizable to them. Uh we've had some huge improvements to checkout and Woo payments that are getting that to parity with all the Shopify checkouts, which I think are kind of best in class as Shopify Stripe. I want Shopify Stripe Woo to all be at parity on the checkout experience. And of course, we'll always beat them on **[49:28]** customizability, right? There's just things you can do when you in control. You can run you can customize things, and you know, also just know every line of code that you're running in ways that you can't with any SaaS service. Uh so, those are the main things there. I would also add that something we can do more on the community side is is more work on the data liberation project. Cuz right now, they They it way easier to switch from Woo to Shopify than from Shopify to Woo. And so, we need to work on our importers and other things there. And that's really **[50:00]** what when I spoke about data liberation, um really the things I had in mind. So, it's actually not bad if someone gets started with a different platform if you make it really easy for them to upgrade to WordPress. And if you look at the early history of WordPress, including when we had some of our biggest amounts of growth, we had really good importers for the biggest other platforms at the time. Like Movable Type, Blogger, LiveJournal, right? You don't hear about these anymore because we had really good importers. So, most of their users switched over to **[50:30]** WordPress. Um I think we need to do that. We don't have good importers for the current generation, the number two, three, four, five in the market. Um which I don't even know if we have a good importer for like Joomla. Uh but we're certainly not for Shopify, Wix, Squarespace, and um so, I think we need great uh you know, as a part of the data data liberation, we already make it very easy to get data out of WordPress. There's some things we could improve there, you know, with the WXR format or backups or **[51:00]** things like that. Let's do that as part of data liberation, but we really need to make it infinitely easier to get data into WordPress. And then it can become your hub for everything. And um maybe even use it alongside Shopify. Or alongside, you know, do sort of the multi-distribution thing where you're sort of publishing your products to different channels with the good Okay, thank you. Thank you. **[51:30]** Hi Mary and Matt, it's Courtney Robertson. Um I love the work around sustainability so much that I went and found an open source group that works on just sustainability, community health analytics and open source software. It spells chaos. Um and the website's chaos.community if anyone wants to look at them. I love a good acronym. Yeah. They This group is unique in that what they do is look at metrics and create practitioner guides for other open source projects to adopt. **[52:01]** So, we don't need to create or reinvent that wheel. Out of that, uh, as I got involved with them, I learned about a few different open source tools they made available, Grimoire and a few others. That led on to me chatting with Harry about this as it relates to using Bitergia for the WordPress project. That's what we use so far for the contributor dashboards initiative that began. And some of that, what you were saying about on individual contributor profiles, there could be ways to better get some of this data instead of promissory **[52:31]** pledges, um, to get the data of what are we achieving, what are we getting done. Some of the tools right now, it's publicly able to scrape what's coming out of GitHub that's public, right? We could hook more data points up to it. We have an interest from folks that want to even port it so that track ticket comments could go through, Slack messages, Help Scout, Free Scout, etc. Um, the last that I touched base with Harry was before things have shifted in his his roles. Um, **[53:02]** but where things last stood was that where we need permission to be able to hook up Slack or Help Scout or some of these to get some better metrics of just numbers, not so much the content of the messages, but to start tracking those numbers so that we know what stories we want to tell from individual contributors, as well as from the sponsor side. Sponsors want ways to know what are we Are the people doing what we're sponsoring them to do? Is that creating a measurable result? There are other tools than Bitergia out there. **[53:32]** That's the first one that we selected that fit closest to our needs for the contributor dashboards. Do you feel that it would be possible to get the permission needed to hook some of these other inputs input sources up. And in addition, when we first began this research, the follow-up is who covers the cost of Beturcha or some of the tools that do some of this for the project. Would you be open to other organizations besides Audrey or automatic helping fund some of that? **[54:05]** Helping fund some of The the tooling. Oh, the cost of the software? Yeah. How much is the software? Uh I think if we were to hook up more, it keeps scaling up. So, I don't want to speak ill of the number that I vaguely remember from a few months ago, but the more connections we put into it, the more costly it becomes. But, I think that the compelling data of having data-informed decision-making would be a win. So, I I can take this cuz I've actually been looking into it so from **[54:36]** the dashboards specifically cuz with Harry and so you read my mind. Yes, I would love it to be funded by somebody else. Automatic currently funds it and it's very expensive. So, if we were to put more data points into it, definitely I would really appreciate that and then it could be a lot more transparent. I um and I shared this before when it came up. I think it's I think it's great to think of other data points that are going to feed into this dashboard, but I wonder about the quality of the data points and we start entering Slack messages. Um **[55:08]** what does that mean? When we're trying we're trying so hard to think about an impact, I could text a 50 thing in Slack and have said absolutely nothing. So, as long as we balance that effectively, I think it'll be really good. Same with track tickets. Sure. But, this came up this morning with 5 for the future as well because I do I really do believe in the fact that we need to get to an impact and we need to have that represented in data. And we need to be be to tie that back into our road maps, and then it's that **[55:38]** much wider conversation around what is an impactful contribution. How are we going to measure that? What does that mean across the teams? An impactful contribution for a developer, an impactful con- contribution for a marketer, very different. So, I I would love to continue these conversations. I'm really excited about it, which is why I came today and I've been in those slacks. Um and I would love if you other if others can start to fund specific things. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. **[56:12]** To the left or? Uh hello Matt. Uh this is Abdullah from Pakistan and I would like to share one news about uh WordPress community in Pakistan and I have one further question as following. So, basically I'm contributing to WordPress community since 2017. And uh organized and part of team for three WordCamps. And recently I led a WordCamp in Pakistan in Lahore. **[56:44]** And Lahore has a very vibrant community. So, one thing I have a question is like uh that event we organized, that was a bit different from the other WordCamps in the world and I would like to tell you how. So, we have raised enough money, enough sponsorships, like we don't request for a sponsor community fund from the WordPress Foundation. So, this is what we have done and I think there is no WordCamp in in the world that actually raised too much fund to uh to cover the **[57:17]** conference expense for the WordCamp and like obviously WordCamps needs community funds. Like there are many global sponsorships out there where the funds actually flowing to to WordCamps. Uh so, I think it's like that fund that was approved for the WordCamp Lahore 2023. So, my opinion on that like that's a proposal for for the foundation. Like that budget was allocated to the WordCamp Lahore team and that should be **[57:49]** invested to that community and the organizers who was like contributing to the communities voluntarily for many years and they are they want to attend WordCamp Europe, WordCamp US. Even I'm trying since 2018. So, 2024 was my first WordCamp Europe Global WordCamp. Even before that I could not attend due to many reason. It's a financial, it's about visa and many things. So, my proposal is the fund that was allocated to that **[58:20]** community that must be spent over there. Like if they have done a very good job with the local sponsor race. And even I tried to raise this concern. But it was not heard as but and one thing I would like to say very openly you are sitting here. WordPress is the 45% part of the internet and that is due to the due to the community. That is the the due to us that due to the all people sitting here here. So, obviously WordPress automatic and other brands **[58:52]** contributing and global sponsor are contributing but those people who are part of community in any way either contributing to the core either contributing the community they are actually part of it. They are actually adding value to the WordPress on daily basis. So, I have a proposal so we must like spend that budget to the allocated community who have approved for this. So, that's my first thing. And the second thing is about like obviously it's **[59:23]** I'm sorry for laughing. It's just it was a longer story and um how about we have can we just cover that before and then get maybe more people a chance to ask a question? Yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. All right. No, it's totally fine. Um that is a story I haven't heard before. Uh it sounds like one that probably is best dealt with with the WordCamp team, and I certainly wouldn't want to override their decision on stage with 30 seconds of hearing about it. I do know that there's, you know, the just things we have to navigate if sponsor funds for a **[59:54]** camp are used for individual benefit that wasn't explicit beforehand, you know? Like if the sponsor is saying, "Okay, we're going to anything extra is going to like try to sponsor someone kind of like the WordCamp Foundation does or WordPress Foundation does to visit uh you know, that's fine. But if it's kind of changed after the fact, it's a little weird. So, could be something changes going forward, too, or just get the sponsors to separately do this, you know, with the individual versus it going through the WordCamp, uh which obviously has a lot of rules for good reasons, you know, we have to worry a lot about misuse of funds and other **[60:24]** things. So, that's just off the top of my head, and I will defer the actual answer to this and decision to the WordCamp team. So, I will If you felt like I'm sure they heard you before, you might not have agreed with the answer, but you could always maybe contextualize it differently or appeal. But ultimately, it is the decision of that team. They they deal with these things more closely. So. And we do actually have WordCamps that turn a profit. Yeah, yeah. A good amount. There's a good amount of them. But it it's great to hear cuz I'm happy that you have turned a profit, but there there are many. **[60:55]** Not a goal. It's like we should just have better food or music or something. The goal is to put it all back in. Put it into the party. This is lots of parties. That was that actually you saw that the word uh press foundation did a larger grant to Internet Archive. That wasn't from donations. That was from excess from WordCamps accumulated over I think a couple years. Um maybe a year or two, I forget exactly. Uh now we we want to keep like a little buffer there, rainy day fund. But um yeah, the whole setup of that organization is like if there's extra **[61:25]** uh ideally it went back in at the time and if not uh we grant it to other great nonprofits. All right, right over there. So one last question like I have a if you don't mind no, let's move on. Let's move on cuz we're we're actually overtime. I want to get a two more people in line. So all right, thank you. Thank you. Hi Matt. Hello Mary. First up I want to thank both of you for taking Campus Connect officially within the WordPress project. If you remember I asked you a question at WordCamp Asia Manila about the students. So having recognized the **[61:56]** efforts of Pooja Anand, also there's uh we have Ganga, we have Shiv running Go WP initiative in Nepal. Also we're running We're also running open source next gen BD in Bangladesh which has started six months ago. I am one of those uh person who's taking it forward. Now my question to both of you individually, I want to hear from you, what do you envision now that Campus Connect is official and we have smaller events running in multiple uh parts of uh different parts of the world. So what do you envision now that **[62:28]** it's official? Are we going to have possibly a bigger event which is other than WordCamp with students and involving universities and educational institutions worldwide? Yeah. I mean uh this is I think one of the bigger opportunities we've had in a long time because it's very very scalable. We can train the trainers as Mary put so eloquently earlier and um and then that can scale out to a really large number of students through an existing framework which has accountability, has **[62:59]** testing, has, you know, all the sorts of things built in there. Um uh the university systems across the world. And again, once this works in some places, I think we have a great opportunity to get this into the other majors, particularly engineering would be the one I'd be most excited about. And um and of course other countries. I think this This easily be a worldwide thing. And then Yeah, WordPress accreditation like all that sort of stuff sort of tells you what on this. I'm really excited about Campus Connect. The um I've I've never actually shared this with you, but you know, when you get **[63:30]** interconnect all of these pieces, right? And And the reason we haven't tied them together yet is because I think it'll stall forward momentum. I think it'll stall the progress. But look at everything that is has been launching. You've got the WordPress community or WordPress credits, which are actually in the university. And then you have the Campus Connect initiative, which is live. But then you have the idea of events, and I've heard multiple times the events the events we need to scale up the events from WordCamps to local WordCamps to to flagships. How are we changing the events? And then WordPress Campus Connect launches as an event, right? And all of a sudden so **[64:02]** much attention came to it, but it didn't just come for the people who are on the ground training and exciting to engage with younger generations and teaching people. It came from companies who it's like been reinvigorated as as how they can fund it and how they can be a participant and then then how they can create that stickiness. And like I said with the the endowment around bringing people and actually getting people similar to what the gentleman had just said like we have we have excess amount of funds that should stay within Pakistan. It's like or we should figure out a way to fund people to come to a **[64:32]** WordCamp who haven't been here and experience it. So the the flywheel that can connect here is phenomenal. It brings new blood into the project. It brings new ideas. It brings education. It brings everything that we need to make this project holistic long-term, right? And I think one of the interesting things is I've been around for the last couple of days and I've been all around talking to folks. And I don't know if anybody's here, but I didn't meet anybody with less than a year at WordPress. I didn't meet anybody. **[65:02]** Actually, the earliest I met was 5 years. Can you Can anybody tell me that they've been here for less than 5 years or less than 3 years actually is probably a smaller number. Less Less 3 years. Okay. than 3 years. we go. That's a problem. And it's a problem that they're not at WordCamp, so I'm not going to say, "Oh, yeah, yeah, well, you know." But I've never been to a WordCamp and I'm and I was at Automattic for 3 years and I've never been there. It was COVID. And then I get here and I want to come to so many more. And then there's faces to the names and then I understand how to interact with people cuz I'm, you know, I'm what you call a a special type of personality. **[65:33]** But that's the that's what gets me excited. It's like you get all of these new people in here and then you get to connect with the community and you can hear them and you can interact with them and then you you get hallway conversations. The plugin team, right? Like these are all these are all conversations and as soon as as soon as they told me their plans and their ideas, I'm like, "You have to meet with Ryan. Where's Ryan? You have to meet with James." And all of that is exciting. Yep. It's exciting and I guess even even the Media Corps conversation and the marketing conversation, I met with multiple people from that at the **[66:04]** event. And it's that mindset shift and like, "Well, how do I get started? What do I do?" And it's like, "Let's just do it." Let's just do it. And then once it gets going and going and going, let's see. It's all ooh, maybe not, maybe so, but let That's That's what it is. And we're going to expect that. 5,000 students coming into this project, let's expect to get real bothered real quick cuz they're going to challenge everything that has been done, right? You've got younger generations here. You know, like short form. Like how how they even accept educational content and **[66:35]** training. It's like, "I just came from TikTok, short form video. I don't want to sit through an hour of you training me, By the way, I would be disappointed if they don't challenge it. Yeah, right? It's exciting. So, I'm really I'm stoked about this. I'm stoked about Canvas Connect. I'm so glad that you guys are all doing it and launching it. Excuse me, you folks. But yeah, yeah, heck yeah. I'm going to say something else. I'm going to flare. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thank you. Also, thank you for all your early work. Um we are a bit over time. So, do you have short questions or **[67:05]** long questions? Short question. Raise your hand if it's short. Yeah? Short one. All right, lightning round then. Lightning round. Super fast. Okay, so hi Mary, hi Matt. First of all, thank you for your time. My name is Alejandro. I am a technical student at CERN at the web team. We are now developing a custom theme and migrating around 700 websites from Drupal to WordPress. So Well I'm very happy that you like the **[67:35]** project. My question is not related to that. But this is As a student, I'm very very interested in in learning. Well, I have learned a lot from all the people here. So I expect with my question to learn a bit about management. Specifically to Mary the question. The question is is it very different to manage private company than an open source organization? If not, why not? Because my my intuition would say that it's yes and if yes, what are the differences in in the mission, in **[68:06]** the motivation, in the priorities, in the problems? A lightning answer. Lightning answer. It's very It's very different. It's very different because you need to bring a lot of people along for a journey and for a ride. It's not top down and it's not you should do this and you should do that. And so accountability is difficult when you're dealing with volunteers because it's all self-motivation. And so it's very different and so I'm learning to I'm learning to work within that and thank you all for the grace while I learn that. **[68:40]** Thank you very much. Hi Matt and Mary. First of all, thank you so much for everything for doing the WordPress community. And I am actively active on the training team last few years. And I am working repo. I am doing the job but I am you know after job job doing the you know providing the training for new new developer or who are interested to get the training for the WordPress, how to connect the WordPress. **[69:11]** So, last when you pass the contribution from your team, I have lost all the plan with the team people, but right now, you know, I feel like the, you know, very slowness based on, you know, pass the your contribution for the training team, especially. So, what the plan for all the training team for the in future? Because I'm here because, you know, I'm just, you know, try to provide the training for the WordPress for the new users. This time also here the 32% new users who don't know the **[69:43]** what is the WordPress and how to start the contribution. And I have said the knowledge. So, you have started developer WP connect, WP campus, whatever. You have also started this the training team, which is the learn what don't what do I do what is the future? I am I need to reply for you the any sponsor or any things for your side for the training team. I'm afraid. I think the answer is longer and also part of my answers I don't know. So, that's just the honest one. It's not just cuz it's lightning round, but thank **[70:13]** you for the question and if you want to follow up by pinging me on Slack, I'm happy to look into it for I'm also always you know warning you Slack. So, of course I will 100% message you again. Cool, thank you. Hi Matt, I'm I'm Shuvat from Ukraine. I live in Portugal on small marketing agency. I have the same pace as you because I'm writer and musician and I started to use WordPress as a writer because I like to write. I tested Joomla, I tested Drupal, **[70:43]** it sucked, so I went for WordPress. Yeah. But that was many years ago and now we have to keep up because there is Webflow, Framer and I think they are more competitors to WordPress than like Wix and other stuff. And uh now everything happens and over years everything happens thanks to contributors. Big round of applause to people who organized this event. It's awesome. Another big round of applause to people **[71:14]** who are contributing to WordPress more than 20 years. Now, you created this is is awesome. And now my question is how do we make and keep WordPress sexy because we don't have all like we have buttons all right. They are not finished. Uh you started to do experiments with having interface for custom post types for fields. It's awesome. It looks amazing. It's not finished. We have AI uh team that starts to work on AI, but I can't change the **[71:44]** hover state of my button and I don't have breakpoints. Let's make WordPress sexy again. L What is that? LMSA? Okay. Um well, first we're going to have to redefine the definition of lightning. **[72:16]** These are these are these are these are long rolling thunder claps. Um so, but thank you for the question. It's a great one. Uh the quick answer is we need to roll up our sleeves and do the work. We talk a lot about meeting and we meet about meetings and we talk about which meetings we should have and which Slack channel. And like sometimes you just need to sit down and write some more code. And that is where I'm really going to try to focus all of my contributions and automatic contributions as we restart. It's part of the reason we want to reboot actually because we felt like ourselves we have become a little diffuse and detached **[72:46]** from results and what we were seeing relative to the amount of time and people that were working full-time on core. And um I I want to see a lot more. So, some of the things you mentioned, you know, we'll bump those to the top of the list. All right, next and make it actually quick. Actually quick. Next question. Thank Um just a question. Just a question. Hello, I am from uh from Georgia. I have very small question. Um I I am feel uh **[73:17]** that um it's it's very nice to uh to have AI in WordPress. Uh but I feel that it's very uh little bit um late. And um I my question is uh what is uh main reason uh also main reason for um for this? I I do not think we're late at all. Like I said, I think we're in the command line era. Like chapter one any one of of AI. And I know that seems hard to believe, but let's look back at this at **[73:48]** WordCamp, you know, 2030. And we'll be like, "Wow, we thought that was good?" What's happening now? Um I think part of the reason it hasn't happened until now is the APIs are still growing. Things like MCP didn't even exist a year or two ago. Um or maybe it was a year, but it's a lot of stuff is brand new and it's moving really quickly. So, I think the most important thing is that we are reactive, that we're adaptive, and that we build the primitives that allow the ecosystem plugins, themes, and the broader people who customize WordPress to build on our rails and play with it. So, that is the **[74:20]** quick answer. And I must I'm going to end this as well as saying like I've actually never been more optimistic because the tools and the capabilities that this unlocked, combined with the creativity in this room, and the creativity of all the contributors and users of WordPress, uh we are in I think a uh on the cusp of a golden era. So, thank you so much. And thank you all. WordCamp Europe, thank you organizers for the extra time. Thank you, Mary. And uh we'll see you at the party.