Fun & Games  🔗 **Source:** [Fun & Games](https://share.snipd.com/episode/e64a9ec8-9d1b-4f3b-b5f1-e162853449db) ## Highlights - **Edited Post Feels Like Rewriting History** - Luke and Jonathan find Matt's edited post feels like a surreal rewriting of history and raises emotional questions about intent. - Jonathan notes odd word choices, removed lines like "you've won I submit," and calls the post dismissive and painful for many. Transcript: Luke I reread Matt's post today. It has some minor edits from what I originally read. Oh, really? Yeah, and I can't quite, there's yeah it's like it's been a little bit there's been some changes i i didn't bother to go back and check the archive but just noted that it's different and Jonathan Uh first there are a few words in there that i didn't know uh i think oh yeah shoggoth or shogoth or something there's a couple of words that demonstrating is supreme intellect. Luke Oh, dude, I have a hard time. Like, I feel, I don't know, a little sad, I think. I'm not sure how I feel as I'm reading this. I'm like, it feels somewhat surreal. Like, it feels to me, because I'm taking it in good faith, it feels like a little bit of, like, rewriting of history in some places and with others. I'm like, what was the point of this? Like, what are we actually trying to achieve? Jonathan And just, it's strange to see a call for, like, people to pray to their deities yeah you haven't been praying that that wp engine loses the lawsuit oh i yeah i i it's it's it's it's it's strange It's a lot it's a lot yeah yeah but at least it wasn't written by AI. Luke You know, I feel, I think you're correct. I don't think AI wrote that. Actually, I like the use of like really bizarre, unusual words. Jonathan I think that is a good way to sort of demonstrate, hey is original human content maybe i'm gonna do that as well work in i mean it's a way that you can uh you know help uh help folks expand their Luke Vocabulary perhaps yeah um but yeah i mean one of the things that stood out to me near the end of the post he says that all of this stems from what he describes as a stupid presentation that He gave at WordCamp US in 2024 that in the past 19 months has only got 16,000 views on YouTube. ([Time 0:00:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3110390b-f541-4599-a6ad-986f8be9bb34)) - **Conflict Caused Broad Community Harm** - The legal and reputational fallout from the dispute has caused broad pain and regret beyond the original incident. - Jonathan believes Matt would admit the conflict "was not worth it" given consequences for the community and himself. Transcript: Jonathan Not worth it i think he would he would happily agree if he were here talking to us now that it was not worth it in the end uh all of the pain that it's caused not only for us, but also for him. And yeah. So the thing, I'm just looking at it now and I see that he's removed the text, you've won, I submit. Ah, yes, that was there before. Luke Yes. It was like a begging for mercy or something. Don't know but the the you've won i submit so maybe maybe someone on the legal side was like okay you get you got to take that out or i don't know luke this line got me as well it's not fun and Games anymore not just business this is having a real impact on people's lives and it's like well was it fun and games at one point i don't remember it ever feeling like fun and games this Has been having a real impact on people's lives the moment it happened yeah that's annoying yeah so like i'm going into word camp europe and i'm looking forward to seeing folks new and A lot of folks that I already know. Jonathan I'm celebrating a successful 7.0 release with the new real-time editing, real-time collaboration feature baked into it. ([Time 0:03:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/eb9a56a3-07f8-4e29-99d2-2f44951cf85b)) - **Connectors API Can Raise Plugin Security** - The new connectors API idea raises the bar for plugin security by centralizing API key handling. - Jonathan pushed to make the connectors API required for new repo plugins to prevent bespoke key-gathering screens. Transcript: Jonathan Oh, wait. No, no. Never mind. Luke You might be able to celebrate that. I don't even know what is the 7.0 release. Jonathan Foundational AI tools, a refreshed admin experience, expanded design controls, new blocks, and powerful developer APIs. Oh, that sounds a little bit like an Apple keynote. Yeah. I mean, the new AI tools are the big ticket item. It is a little concerning. Like, I don't know if you saw, but somebody has been talking about how, who was it? It was PatchSack. The PatchSack CEO was talking about how 7.0, like these, that the plugins could be stealing APIi keys oh that's not good yeah especially these like high demand api keys for right you Know open ai and things like that so man i yeah i would only install trusted plugins right now if you're running 7 don't just go randomly installing plugins randomly off the repo because Even though i just tried i've put all my plugins now so it's totally fine i tried to introduce jonathan a new um requirement for submitting a plugin to the repo but the rest of the plugin Team hasn't really responded unfortunately So I'm trying to push that if you have a plugin, it has to use the WordPress APIs, sorry, the new API layer for connectors, we're calling it, Right? ([Time 0:05:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b4b15837-e0ba-4e39-8fbe-b023709ac485)) - **Only Install Trusted Plugins On 7.0** - Avoid installing untrusted plugins when using WordPress 7.0 because some plugins might exfiltrate high-value API keys. - Jonathan suggests requiring new plugins to use the central connectors API rather than custom key entry to reduce risk. Transcript: Jonathan Oh, wait. No, no. Never mind. Luke You might be able to celebrate that. I don't even know what is the 7.0 release. Jonathan Foundational AI tools, a refreshed admin experience, expanded design controls, new blocks, and powerful developer APIs. Oh, that sounds a little bit like an Apple keynote. Yeah. I mean, the new AI tools are the big ticket item. It is a little concerning. Like, I don't know if you saw, but somebody has been talking about how, who was it? It was PatchSack. The PatchSack CEO was talking about how 7.0, like these, that the plugins could be stealing APIi keys oh that's not good yeah especially these like high demand api keys for right you Know open ai and things like that so man i yeah i would only install trusted plugins right now if you're running 7 don't just go randomly installing plugins randomly off the repo because Even though i just tried i've put all my plugins now so it's totally fine i tried to introduce jonathan a new um requirement for submitting a plugin to the repo but the rest of the plugin Team hasn't really responded unfortunately So I'm trying to push that if you have a plugin, it has to use the WordPress APIs, sorry, the new API layer for connectors, we're calling it, Right? Luke The new connectors, rather than having your own sort of interface for adding an api key here and there oh use the connectors api yeah is i mean that seems like uh that seemed like especially For new plugins it's one thing you're probably not going to just make it a hard requirement for existing things because that takes time but like raise the bar for the new ones coming in That makes a lot of sense yeah i think so but the the ([Time 0:05:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ad2f042f-c88c-4857-90c3-f1ddd0648f1e)) - **Loyalty To WordPress Versus Practical Tools** - Both hosts feel a tension: WordPress is strongest but also precarious, prompting reevaluation of when it's the best tool. - Luke admits using more static builds and wonders if loyalty is nostalgia versus practical choice. Transcript: Luke This this um dichotomy of thought and feeling in me in regards to wordpress and there's a there's been a couple of things i've been excited about i read this post uh from from dave weiner Um talking about like wordpress as an operating system. Like, kind of, you know, me. I'm a sucker for something like that. Jonathan Yeah, yeah. That's your thing. Luke And I was like, oh, man, this is getting me thinking, and especially in context of all these, like, new AI tools and ways of thinking of things. And then I'm also noticing that I am personally, like, doing less with WordPress and doing more with like static builds and as I'm playing with these different things. And I'm having more people come to me. I was talking to someone just earlier today and they're talking about like, hey, what do I build on next? And like, what do I do? And I find myself saying things like, hey, I'm a fan of WordPress. Jonathan And it's and for me, of course, I'm not saying but. You read one of those business books where you're not supposed to say but right yet. Nevermind. Sorry. Luke And it's, uh, it's, I find like I'm, I'm just calling out my bias as a fan of WordPress, and I'm looking at situations where it's like, yeah, I don't know if that's actually the best tool For the job. And Luke, it feels like it's not that it couldn't be. And I don't know. I'm starting to wonder, like, what's the degree to which I'm just holding on to, like, nostalgia or just lots of, like, past patterns? And then I read things like this from Matt, and it makes me question that even more. In his opening, of course, he calls out that WordPress at 23 years old is simultaneously both the strongest and most precarious it's ever been. And I actually agree with that, but perhaps not for the reasons that that matt is is calling out ([Time 0:07:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8b92ad71-6a79-4168-ad3c-9c6069dd6b32)) - **Coding Framed As Commissioned Art** - Jonathan has been exploring cross-disciplinary art and reframes coding as his art, charging 50% up front for commissions. - He enjoys building systems from the ground up and sees that craftsmanship as increasingly valuable. Transcript: Jonathan And so we've been talking about, let's see, like surrealism and abstract and impressionism and things like this. And I realized that I really am excited about reimagining code as art. Not creating art with code, but no, this is my art. You know, we're talking about selling art right oh what about a commission piece how much should you charge for that do you charge before or after i charge for my art 50% up front and 50% Once it's completed and what i meant by that was if someone wants me to build them something with code that's my art and yeah so that's that's how i'm now i'm i'm mad because I really am proud Of my coding ability and my ability to just like from foundation up, imagine how a system should work and then build every piece of it. And I think that's valuable more now than ever. And so that's how I'm thinking about my work. Luke I'm picturing Luke the hipster coder, like only handwritten with the clacky keyboard sounds. Yeah. Like custom coffee on the side as well. All super fancy. Jonathan That's all me, yeah. I'm a super hipster these days. ([Time 0:10:41](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ce2e56c8-ca2e-43da-aef7-67af33c08909)) - **Quick Static Migration Fixed Hosting Problems** - Luke migrated a small WordPress community site to a static build using an export and Claude, producing a much-improved site in about an hour. - The move solved hosting churn and performance issues from a cheap DigitalOcean instance. Transcript: Luke It must be something the kids say. Yeah. Okay. I had an experience uh there's a little wordpress site that i've maintained for this like fun side project that i'm involved in i set it up a few years back and it's for this community have Jonathan You heard of a game called polytopia yeah yeah you've been trying to get me to play it for years. Well, it's fantastic. Wait, wait, wait. Let me guess how this story ends. Can I? Go, please take a guess. You vibe coded a static version. Yeah, pretty much. But here's the sad part about it. Luke At least for me, sad, but not really. I set up a WordPress instance and a couple of folks have been managing this WordPress instance for years. And because I've been hosting it myself, it's been going down. Like I've got like a spin-up instance with DigitalOcean that I don't want to keep paying more for. So I like try downgrading it and then it starts choking. And I was like, okay, I could fix. And I looked at it and it doesn't really have much going for it. It's pretty plain. So it's a basic default theme nothing fancy if I really wanted to do more with it I'd put Ollie on but then I was like man I can like in an hour have a much better looking site that takes all Of the like the WordPress export so that's what I did I exported WordPress got the export file pulled it into claude design and within an hour had something that looked way better than It was that was like quite functional and the they were super happy with and now we're looking at doing some like special projects that use live data and i'm ([Time 0:12:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2f9d23c-68a1-4ee3-845c-5598f36d55f2))