God Told Him to Check the Yellow Pages  🔗 **Source:** [God Told Him to Check the Yellow Pages](https://share.snipd.com/episode/040fcdf1-c299-449f-b2d3-7c345da23634) ## Highlights - **Childhood Imagination Opens Spiritual Questions** - Childhood imagination naturally reaches beyond visible reality and can become an early form of spiritual questioning. - John Doyle repeatedly asked what exists beyond what he could see before he had language for the question. Transcript: John Doyle Well, um, I think the, the, the real background of my, of my childhood is this. I was born in 1960, so my formative years were late 60s through the mid-70s. And I just had a lot of – my parents were really permissive. They let us, let us be kind of like feral kids. And always, always, always had a lot of friends around our, our, our house was neighborhood hang out. And we were, you know, we were, we were, we were good mischievous kids. And so always a lot of activity, but I would always find myself. And later I understood that I'm just an introvert by nature where I have to go off and be by myself and collect my thoughts. But, you know, I go off and, you know, to be by myself. And, you know, I've always had a very active imagination in a fantasy world, you know. And but but I'd always I'd find myself at a certain point just kind of looking at everything that I could see, like within reality. And of course, as a young young child, I couldn't really understand what I was, you know, conceptually looking at. But my question was, what's beyond what I see? You know, that's always been the question and, you know, always in the back of my mind is, you know, what's beyond what I see? ([Time 0:02:25](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ea95535f-16ad-41e2-8ee3-840ac2a4f96f)) - **The Sunday Morning Church Escape Plan** - John Doyle’s Catholic upbringing was nominal and eventually faded as his family stopped attending Mass. - His brothers pretended to sleep on Sunday mornings, hoping their parents would oversleep and skip church. Transcript: John Doyle You know, I think the church just really kind of lacks an imagination, you know, we sure you know look beyond you know what we see um my my religious upbringing uh was really nominal catholic Okay neither my parents were serious you know so we went to you know early you know early like catechism and and we go to church and then after a while it was like my dad would kind of drop Us off at church. You're like, I've done I've done my, you know, my stint, you know, and then it just kind of petered out, you know, kind of just petered out from there. Jeremy Steele And what was that experience like for you? Like, how was that, you know, going to mass and catechism and all of that as a kid? John Doyle Well, it was real interesting because really my recollection of, you know, Catholic church on a Sunday morning is me and my three brothers faking like we were sleeping, hoping that My parents would oversleep and that we would not have to go to church. And so I never really had any sense other than it was just kind of an inconvenience. But so I think I stopped. We ended up stopping when I was about in fifth grade. ([Time 0:04:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1ae9a797-27de-4db5-88fb-2011555d8d6d)) - **Why John Returned To Mass Alone** - After leaving regular church attendance, John Doyle independently returned to early Mass after delivering newspapers. - He found familiarity and connection there, though he later associated the pull partly with childhood superstition. Transcript: John Doyle And then I started to deliver the morning paper, the Arizona public. Oh, right, right, right, right. Like newspaper. Yeah, delivering. It didn't come via email? No, no. Just, just good old hard newspaper. But I found myself gravitate. I'd actually started going on my own, you which was you know which was kind of absurd when you look at you know what my outer life was i would go to to mass um at the early morning like at 7 a.m After i got done delivering the sunday paper i would go and i would go sit i had my special seat and, you know, and I think maybe there was like this connection with the superstition, you Know, because I was always, I was also a very superstitious child, you know, had the, right. Jeremy Steele And that thread runs deep in Catholicism, right? John Doyle Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very, very, very interesting. Jeremy Steele Um, but you know, after couple years of that you know that kind of ran its course and why did you show up you you said superstition like what what did it when you showed up at mass at 7 a.m after John Doyle Doing your paper route what were you experiencing there you know i think um some sort of familiarity, you know, that there was some sort of connection with something that I didn't even Know I was connected with. ([Time 0:05:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d52c3ba0-94a5-49c3-a7fe-f1d7d9ee025d)) - **Spiritual Connection Comes In Waves** - John Doyle experienced spirituality as something that comes and goes rather than something he can permanently maintain. - He describes mystical connection as an unpredictable wavelength that appears without warning and keeps him attentive. Transcript: John Doyle Yeah but it you know like but it but it waned you know when i when i went in when i went through my adolescence i you know i didn't have any right any uh you know outward pool i kind of thought Jeremy Steele That you know religion was for the simple-minded okay and how did you go from how did you go from showing up at mass voluntarily at 7 a.m to religion is for simple-minded people you know John Doyle I think there was kind of um you know like a, you know, like a real spiritual pool. Like, like when I went, would go to mass, like that was like, um, you know, that was like another, another force, you know, the, you know, the spiritual force. And then I think, you know, the spiritual force kind of waned. And then I went through my adolescence without any sort of, you know, spiritual connection. You know, because that's kind of a, you know, a pattern that I've, you know, that I've seen, you know, as, you know, as a recognized spiritual person, you know, someone who is, you know, Connected in with that wavelength. And I, and I speak no ego into that because I understand the liabilities of what it means to be spiritual, you know, but at the same time, you having those you know those connections and And um ([Time 0:07:53](https://share.snipd.com/snip/24785893-ddc5-4943-92e8-09d0459122e2)) - **A Desperate Prayer Brings Sudden Hope** - During a desperate marital and family crisis in Alaska, John Doyle prayed for strength and suddenly felt hopeful. - The brief experience transformed hopelessness into a sense that something beyond ordinary reality existed. Transcript: John Doyle First is the is the physical manifestation you know that's about of those, the fifth, the first physical manifestation I had was real early in my, um, in my, uh, married family life. I was an 18 year old, uh, I was an 18 year old father, uh, grew up in Arizona, but moved my young family to Alaska in the early 80s. And, you know, and life was life was challenging. Well, one night, you know, this very kind of fragile marriage, family, you know, living situation, it all kind of came undone, you know, where, you know, the, you know, the worst is said And the energy is spent. And, and I remember, you know, kind of staggering into the living room, you know, just like totally emotionally and physically spent. And I, and I kind of threw myself into the couch, not, you know, I kind of fell into the couch, right into the crack of the couch in my arm. My right arm was beneath me. And I was like stuck in the, in the crack of the couch. And it was like total darkness, you know, just like hopelessness, you know, this, this life isn't going to work. And, you know, really feeling that complete, uh, darkness. And then, and then I started thinking about my young family and, you know, thinking about, you know, the things, um, you know, that I wasn't willing to give up. And, and, and literally, Jeremy, this is the first time I ever prayed, you know, like that God. And I said, I said, God, give me the strength to go on. And no sooner than the period was on the end of that sentence, I was sitting straight up, you know, on the couch, you know, it's firm back, just full of this, of this hope. And I have no recollection of being in the crack to being in this position, you know, and I actually have, you know, tried to recreate it later, you know, like, come on, John, you know, Let's see if you could actually get in the crack again. Yeah. You know, your arm underneath you, you know, pull your, you know, it's like, yeah, maybe if I was like some super athlete with great core muscles, you know, and, you know, so I'm sitting There and, and this feeling in this initial rush only lasted a couple moments. Jeremy Steele Yeah. John Doyle You know, that's the other thing about all my mystical experiences is they're very quick. You know, yeah, there was effect afterwards, but that initial like, you know, it was, you know, it lasted a couple moments and then it just kind of waned. And all I can say was, whoa. Yeah. No. And I remember going out into the, you know, into the Alaska night, you know, looking up at the stars and just like, whoa, there's something else here. And as I called it God, you know, that's my, my mental construct on sports. Yeah, for sure. You know, all that thing. I'm like, okay, that's God. ([Time 0:11:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/98d41a83-bc03-49e8-84a9-13093b830862)) - **The Voice That Sent Him To The Yellow Pages** - Unemployed after moving from Alaska to Oregon, John Doyle heard an audible voice tell him to consult the Yellow Pages. - He experienced the instruction as intimate and trustworthy, like guidance from his closest loved ones. Transcript: John Doyle So in the eighties, when I lived in Alaska, I, I as an industrial painter in the oil fields of Alaska. And so after 10 years, it was like, oh, man, we got to get out of here. This Alaska living is a little tough. Jeremy Steele And I cannot even imagine. John Doyle Yeah, rough place. You really got to love it. And so we moved to Oregon and, um, you know, I had three grade school kids, you know, wife who was kind of more, more, uh, a stay at home mom. And, you know, we, we, we, we got into a house as soon as, as soon as we got there and, and I still didn't have a job and I wasn't going to become a industrial painter because there's no industrial Painting down where I was living. I was really wanting to get a different job, you know, something more stable. So one afternoon, you know, I'm, I'm laying in bed, crying the blues to God, you know, the woe is me, you know, you know, really pathetic, you know, and I'm laying there, you know, like, Well, woe is me. And I hear the voice and it's, it's like right here, this like, you know, the voice, you know, and it says, John, go to the yellow pages and I'll find you a job. Jeremy Steele Okay. So when you said you hear the, like an audible voice, not the voice in your head. John Doyle This, this instant is like a audible voice, like right here. Yeah. Cause I, you know, you know, the, the voice comes in a lot of all different ranges and, you know, there's a lot of variation about how, you know, the spirit can talk to us, you know. So so this you know, this this example was like an audible spiritual voice. Jeremy Steele Right. So go to the yellow pages. And for people who were not born in the 1900s, the yellow pages are the there was a physical phone book with all the you know, and there was the gray pages, which was like john doyle and his Number and his address and the yellow pages was categorically organized by uh business type it was all businesses and advertisements and it was actually on yellow paper right so the The voice tells you to go open it up to the business advertising directory for the whole community. And what happens? Do you go? Oh, yeah. John Doyle I mean, you know, the voice was so, you know, it was like obedience was like, OK, I'm going to go do this thing. ([Time 0:15:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d32ecbca-9542-495c-b27a-5cc3c0f3bdbc)) - **How Graphic Media Became The Answer** - John Doyle searched Portland’s business listings for film and video companies despite an unimpressive résumé. - Graphic Media eventually gave him a technical writing opportunity, launching six productive years of work. Transcript: John Doyle Well, so I live, I'm living in small town Silverton, you know, like 10,000 people, you know? And so I'm like, well, I don't even have the Yellow Pages. So I go down, I go down to the library, Silverton library, and I'm like, what the heck am I looking for? Well, I've had this lifelong interest in writing screenplays just on my own. And so I, i've you know i had this love of writing i had been developing it and so i'm thinking okay well i'll try and get a job in the film and video production so i go to the this 10 000 person No no up in up in uh up in portland portland okay that that that tracks okay that yeah that tracks uh You know, it's about an hour away. Okay. And so I'm like writing down all these names of all these film and video production companies. Now, remember, this is the early 90s. Right. And I remember I came to this one company called Graphic Media. And I remember thinking, oh, that sounds kind of dry. You know, I wanted something production, you know, and all that. And so I went up there. I started going up there, you know, handing out this very unimpressive resume, which is 10 years of industrial painting and a couple of, you know, screenplay synopses, you know. And I wasn't getting any callback. Right, not at all. And so after about three weeks of, you know, going through this process, I remember I was down on First Avenue in downtown Portland. I went to this place, you know, kind of got the don't call us, we'll call you. And I went down to the to the street and I looked at my list and I saw graphic media and it was just up on second avenue and I and I remember looking at him going oh man I don't even know if I want To go to this place all of a sudden I mean it felt like there was like two hands on the back of you know my shoulders pushing me you know I, I went into the, you know, talked to the receptionist. You know, like, hey, you guys hiring any riders? And, oh, yeah, we're doing a computer-based training program with a big supermarket up there in the Northwest. And, you know, I talked to the project manager a little bit later. He's kind of like, hey, you know, this is kind of technical writing. You know, he was trying to be nice. And I just say, hey, Ben, you know, give me give me a shot. Let me let me show you what I can do. And and he said, yeah. And I went in there and just kind of had the intuitive nature about what you know what it was, you know, what they were trying to do. And I wrote out this little, you know, pre-formulated script and, and I got the job. ([Time 0:19:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/314d1528-6734-497e-8d7d-f73da27e7ef1)) - **Love Matters More Than Achievement** - John Doyle interpreted his successful job search as evidence that divine love, rather than personal achievement, explained the opportunity. - He understood the experience relationally, not merely as an impersonal force or lucky break. Transcript: John Doyle So I had this writing job, I had this writing job for six years and, you know, I commuted every day and, um, you know, um, it became a real fruitful time all the time spent in the car, you know, And this, during my church years, you know, which was the 90s. And so there's a lot of time for, you know, just that fellowship with God and spending time learning about things. You know, walking away, you know, I really felt one day God, you know, kind of spoke to me on one of my trips up and is like, you know, John, I didn't give you this job because of anything that You've ever done. Right. I gave you this job because I love you. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. And that's always been all the mystical experiences, like even my first one. It's not just like a bolt of energy lifting me as we would think energy. You know, there's all the personality and all the heart of something like taking me somewhere else. ([Time 0:22:16](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1407a207-1563-4036-a3b2-a738b3e8b40f)) - **The Vision That Revealed His Inner Judge** - In a vision, John Doyle moved from accusation to judgment to punishment before seeing that every figure was himself. - The realization exposed his recurring cycle of shame, self-accusation, and self-punishment. Transcript: Jeremy Steele Right. John Doyle And so in this one, this was now back in Alaska. Church, uh, where I became a Christian or I got baptized and that whole thing that fell apart. Jeremy Steele Yeah. John Doyle And now I'm kind of me and my wife were kind of like free agents, you know, we're just kind of floating around, you know, and we get invited one night to go to this little prayer, prayer group At the Catholic church. Okay. And so there was like five or six of us and it was basically just, you know, someone strumming on a guitar and everyone, you know, entering their own place of worship and praise and all That. Right, right. And so what happened in this, this was my first vision. And the majority of my mystical experiences have come in this form, have come in the vision form. And the way the vision started was I had done something wrong. I had sinned. I had fallen short. And I came into the scene with kind of my head down, you know, feeling that the weight of the shame. And all of a sudden, someone comes up and starts accusing me. You know, like, oh, he's crap. Look what you did. It's all your fault. And, you know, and I don't bother to look up and I'm, you know, yeah, you're right. You know, you're you know, I'm accepting the accusation. And then all of a sudden he goes, go to the judge. And so I obediently walk over to the, you know, the judge's stand, you know, and it's like so high. It's like almost like a cartoon, you know, where I'm looking up and I can't see the judge, but I can feel his contempt. And he doesn't even need to call me guilty. He just says, go to the punisher. Okay. And so I obediently walk over and, and, um, excuse me. Out comes this big old buff dude with this black hood on his head, and he's got this razor sharp whip. And I just, you know, I just like, yeah, you know, I deserve this. I deserve this punishment. And I'm feeling the, you know, the whip go across my back. I'm just saying, yeah, you know, I deserve this. And finally it gets done, and I'm you know, with my head down. And there again, I'm looking at it from back here. I'm watching this all go down. Yeah, like a third person view. Yeah. And all of a sudden I see Jesus walk into the picture, you know, white, white robe. White robe, white guy, brown hair, beard, red sash white dress yeah yeah yeah and so jesus walks into the picture and and i sense him walking up and i'm i'm ready to receive the you know John you know why don't you just you know try harder you know the standard christian you know just have more faith or you know i'm ready for that but that's not what he does he comes and he Kind of lifts up my chin and he just says look and i looked and i could see that the accuser the judge and the punisher were all myself what yeah and you know and i walked away from that and I wish i could say i was delivered first comes ([Time 0:24:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/018185a2-2b21-46a5-94a0-fec1fd7c673e)) - **Mysticism Expanded His Idea Of Divine Love** - John Doyle’s mystical experiences led him to view healing as their central purpose rather than mere supernatural spectacle. - Extending divine love from himself to atheists and perceived wrongdoers reshaped his theology. Transcript: John Doyle Recognition then like 25 years of like breaking that breaking that accusation judgment punishment pattern yeah that's what i call the sin cycle. It's just what we do as human beings. And there again, I walked away from that experience with just this sense of, okay, this thing, whatever this thing is it is for me it wants me to be healthy and have wellness and freedom And it will bring these truths that are that are hard to hard to take but you know that's you know and then so you so i take the experience of the mystical you know and i look at it and I mine All the gold out of it. And then it's like, well, this thing can't just love me. That would be absurd. I would not want a God who just loved me. And so I just just real quick. So I extrapolate that out. Okay. If God loves me, then God needs, is the same for you. It's the same for that bad guy over there. Same for that atheist over there. ([Time 0:28:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9ffc7a99-2523-4d5c-921b-0db00d7a1331)) - **Small Communities Make Spirituality More Honest** - John Doyle values Not Church because small groups encourage natural voices, honesty, and intimacy. - He especially appreciates Jeremy Steele’s combination of pastoral warmth, intellectual depth, and freedom from coercive persuasion. Transcript: John Doyle Yeah. You know, I've always loved the small, intimate. I've been part of like house groups and men's groups and, you know, that intimacy. That's what I love. I love the intimacy of being able to go into a place and have everyone's natural voice. You know, that's when we get real with each other is when we're in small, small spaces. And, you know, the people, the people have been super great, you know, people that are willing and able to, you know, really thrive in that space. But I have to tell you what I tell people, Jeremy, is about you. And I really mean this. You have such a pastoral way where you come in, you, you know, you kind of just throw out the questions, allow people to have the freedom. You're not there to pimp anyone in. And then plus, you're just super smart. You know, seriously, whenever you do the Bible, you know, the lessons, I'm just like, dude, this guy, this guy knows this thing. And I really appreciate that. You kind of remind me, my older sister, you know, super warm, but also super smart. You know, I think that's a really great combination. ([Time 0:30:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8c56a920-5a61-4026-adb5-c3034af31742))