How Boycotts Work  ## Metadata - Author: [[Stuff You Should Know]] - Full Title: How Boycotts Work - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/9326bb02-a8e4-458f-951e-b1752c4be0c5 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Origin of the Boycott** - Charles Cunningham Boycott was a rent collector in 1879 Ireland who evicted tenant farmers during a famine. - The Land League orchestrated a boycott, isolating him completely and ruining his business and life. Transcript: Josh Clark We asked David to help us with them. And what I didn't know right out of the gate is that boycott is somebody's last name. The first guy, whoever on record got boycotted, was named Charles Cunningham Boycott. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, that seems like something we would make up as a bit. Yeah. But it's actually totally true. He was an Englishman living in Ireland in County Mayo, and he was a rent collector, specifically would collect rent for absentee British landlords from Irish tenant farmers who were Having a very rough time in 1879. Josh Clark Down on their luck, as you'd put it. There was a terrible famine. This is after the great Irish potato famine, but this one wasn't so wonderful either. And so these farmers were not exactly looking forward to being evicted for being behind on rent. And Boycott apparently seems to be one of those people who had like, you just follow the rules. You're the one who's not paying your rent, so get out. And the Irish people in County Mayo decided to do something about it. They formed an organization called the Land League, and they were agitating for fairer rents. They were agitating for an end to evictions. And Charles Boycott just kept evicting people. So they're like, we've got to try something else. What can we do? Let's do everything we can to ruin Charles Boycott's life. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah. And if there was only a name for this kind of action. Josh Clark They're like, we'll get to that later. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, but we can't think of one. So later in a letter to the Times of London, Boycott basically kind of summarized what they had been doing. And we're not going to read all this word for word, but, you know, they really screwed with his business. You know, they collected in crowds on his farm. They, you know, would harass him at his house. They threatened people that worked for him, like his blacksmith apparently got a letter threatening him with murder. If he did any more work for him, they threatened his laundress to stop washing his clothes. And he couldn't get anybody to do any kind of work for him, basically, and ruined his business. It became a big story, like not just there, but kind of internationally. The British newspapers picked it up. The British newspapers also raised funds to send 50 Northern Irish loyalists to harvest his potato crop because he couldn't get anyone to do it because they were afraid they'd get, You know, physically beaten or harassed. ([Time 0:03:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/75a26169-919c-4570-b6ff-fa8c822a2a7b)) - **Ingredients for Effective Boycotts** - Effective boycotts need clear goals, targeted focus, awareness, core customer reach, sustainment, substitutability, and hurting the bottom line. - Social media has made bad press a powerful leverage point alongside financial impact. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant If you, you know, you can boycott your day away, but if you want to really be effective, these, there are at least, I'd say probably four out of six of these need to be around. Yeah. Josh Clark Six steps to ruining targets, market share. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant You got to have a clear goal in mind, which means you have an outcome in mind, basically. You want a narrow target. So you want to either target like a very narrow, like a product or just a single company. That's why sometimes when I think about like, yeah, you're targeting this company, but like the parent company isn't targeted. I don't know. That's where it can get a little messy, I think. Josh Clark Yeah. And poor targets. Like, can you guys stop using the word target when you're talking about boycotts? Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant There's also awareness and education because your goal here is to not only get them to change whatever they're doing, but to bring awareness and educate people in whatever you feel Like they're doing wrong. Josh Clark Well, plus also the more support you have, the better off you are. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, yeah. Good point. Josh Clark You also want to reach core customers. This is a very important point. Yeah. Dave turned up an expert in boycotts and studying boycotts who said, essentially, if you have a bunch of PETA members who are boycotting Kentucky Fried Chicken, like that's not going To have much of an effect because none of those PETA members were ever buying Kentucky Fried Chicken in the first place. And yeah, maybe you could generate some public sympathy, but you're not getting to their core customers necessarily. Yeah. And that's what makes it effective. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant What else? There's sustain, there's substitutability. This is a big one because if you can very easily switch to another brand of whatever, then it's going to make your boycott far more effective. Like if, and you know, we'll get to other examples later, but like, you know, with the big Bud Light boycott was a very big one we're going to cover later. It was really easy for the people who wanted to boycott Bud Light to switch to another, like inexpensive light beer. So that, that was a pretty effective boycott because it's like super easy. Yeah. I'll just drink Miller Lite or whatever. Josh Clark Right. Or I'll go to churches or Popeye's rather than Kentucky Fried Chicken. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Exactly. Josh Clark And then also, like, if you want a successful boycott, you have to really, like, nail in that bottom line. You really got to hurt the company financially if you want to make them at least start listening to you, if not actually enact the change that you're looking for. And, you know, in times past, essentially pre-social media era, that was the one measure of boycotts. That is how you got a company to respond. You started really affecting either their sales or their stock price, more often than not, their stock price. Nowadays, because of social media, bad press can spread so fast and so far and so wide that just getting like negative press can actually make large corporations or organizations change Their stance on something or make them drop their stance in total. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, for sure. ([Time 0:09:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/01c83566-0cbf-4cba-9500-2946c3120a99)) - **Colonial Boycotts Spark Revolution** - Colonial American boycotts like against the Stamp Act successfully repealed it by refusing to import British goods. - The Boston Tea Party protested tea taxes, escalating resistance leading to war. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant All right, we're back, and as promised, we're going to take you on a little walk through the history of boycotts, and we've got to start with colonial era because they were good at it. A lot of times they were boycotting an act that was passed by the British that they did not like over here in the new colonies. They had some pretty wicked branding with slogans like no taxation without representation. They were pretty good at that kind of thing. And the first one we're going to talk about is 1765. I know we've talked about, you know, all these kind of here and there in the life of the show, but the Stamp Act was passed in 65, which was a tax on paper goods and documents and things like That. In Boston and New York, said, nope, we're going to sign a non-importation agreement, and we're not going to import goods from England anymore. And it worked. About a year later, Parliament repealed the Stamp Act. Yeah. Josh Clark First boycott. And we should say the American colonies. I could see our Australian and New Zealand listeners be like, I don't remember any of this, what you're talking about. Yeah. Lots of colonies. This happened in the American colonies, right? Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant That's right. Josh Clark Shortly after that. So Parliament's trying to pay for the Seven Years' War, the French-Indian War is what the American colonists called it. So they were now directly taxing the American colonies. And they followed up with the Stamp Act with the Townsend Revenue Act in 1767. It takes a bunch of different stuff. The colonists organized a bunch of protests and boycotts again, and Parliament responded. And they repealed the Townsend Act three years later, but they kept one part of it. They kept a tax on tea. Everyone loved tea in the American colonies, as I'm sure in Australia and New Zealand too at the time. So it was a big deal to have this big tax on tea. And so the American colonists said, well, we're not going to drink British tea. And the parliament said, oh, yeah, we'll get this. We're going to give the East India Company basically free reign on selling below cost for tea. So that even with this tax, it's going to cost you less for tea than buying the smuggled illegal tea that normally is cheaper with the tax, right? So some merchants were like, well, it sounds kind of good to me. I can make more money. And the people here in the American colonies, we call the patriots, the founding fathers, said nay to that. And that actually led to the Boston Tea Party. Yeah. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant The Sons of Liberty said, no thanks. We're going to dump your tea in the Hava. Wow. Josh Clark Man, you are killing it today, all over the place. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant And that's what they did. In 1774, the First Continental Congress passed a colony-wide ban on all trade with Britain. Josh Clark And that was the beginning of what would become a war. Yeah, it worked then. It worked later. And I mean, they didn't have a name for this because this was before the county mayo boycotts and Charles boycott. But they were like, this unnamed thing that we're doing, it really kind of works. And so it inspired other groups that came along in America over the course of the coming centuries, especially if you were part of a civil rights organization. Boycotts prove very effective. They are really worthwhile to do because most of the time, if you're agitating for civil rights, you have a group of true believers who are willing to actually work at this. And one of the first groups fighting for civil rights in the United States were the Quakers, Quaker abolitionists, and they formed something called the Free Produce Movement. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, this was in the 1840s through the Civil War, basically, and they boycotted goods made by enslaved people, cotton, of course, being one of the keys there. ([Time 0:15:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a54ad9db-be3a-423b-93a5-00bf550c4280)) - **Montgomery Bus Boycott Impact** - The Montgomery bus boycott was a year-long, community-supported protest against bus segregation, leading to a Supreme Court ruling. - It involved organized carpools, shoe drives, and huge local solidarity. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Another obvious example, as far as civil rights go, is the great Montgomery bus boycott, which we covered in detail in our episode from February 2018, Rosa Parks, colon, Agent of Change. So you can go listen to that episode for the full rundown of the Montgomery bus boycott. But that was a couple of highlights for me was the fact that before Rosa Parks came along, I always want a chance to shout out 15-year Claudette Colvin, who in March 1955 refused to move So a white passenger could take her seat. She was also yanked off the bus and arrested by the cops, but they would end up rallying around Rosa Parks instead about nine months later. And then the other thing I just wanted to highlight, and again, you should listen to that episode because it's really in-depth, but was that the black community rallied around each Other in like a big way, like black taxi drivers would charge the same fare as the bus fare would be. They had volunteers organizing carpools. They had shoe drives because people were walking so much they were wearing their shoes out to like get people in fresh shoes. And it's a really beautiful moment in American history. Josh Clark Yeah, and it was a real struggle for them because this is how black people in Montgomery largely got around was the bus. So to give that up was a big deal. And it was a successful boycott. It lasted 382 days until the Supreme Court ruled that segregation on buses was unconstitutional. If your boycott leads to a Supreme Court ruling that what you're fighting against is unconstitutional, that is a successful boycott. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, for sure. ([Time 0:19:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d75fe8d3-cd56-42d4-b704-714673441501)) - **Boycotts Help Dismantle Apartheid** - The African National Congress suggested a boycott of South African goods to protest apartheid. - This international boycott, combined with sanctions and protests, helped dismantle apartheid over decades. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Can we talk about apartheid? Josh Clark I think we should. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant So apartheid was segregation in South Africa. It was their version of legal segregation of their people, of the white minority and the black majority in South Africa. And it was around since 1948 through basically the mid-90s to when it finally dissolved, I think was like 94. And the repeal of apartheid is partially credited to international pressure, boycotts, sanctions, divestment. Josh Clark And little Stevie Van Zandt. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, and little Stevie Van Zandt. We'll get to him in a sec, but nonviolent protests were a big part of it, led by the African National Congress. Nelson Mandela was one of the leaders in the ANC. So in 1959, ANC President Albert Luthuli said, hey, Great Britain, why don't you boycott all South American produce, all South African produce? ([Time 0:21:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cd662ec6-0308-4b79-a924-3b17b965a4f9)) - **Art and Academia Against Apartheid** - 150+ US colleges divested from South Africa, and artists united in the 'Sun City' boycott against apartheid. - Many famous musicians refused to play Sun City as protest, raising awareness effectively. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant And so they got together, started their activism on campus, and more than 150 U.S. Colleges divested from South Africa. So they withdrew investments in South African companies as institutions as a whole. Was a UN cultural boycott, and part of that ended up being something that started in 85 called the Artists United Against Apartheid, founded by little Stephen Van Zandt of the E Street Band, and a producer named Arthur Baker, who organized a song Sun City and an album Sun City, because Sun City was a luxury resort and casino in South Africa that had a lot of big-time concerts. And the song basically was, I ain't Gonna Play Sun City. And it was a, you know, it was sort of on the heels of We Are The World. But this one was different because they, you know, there were certainly black artists on We Are The World, but not rap and hip-hop. And Sun City had Bono, of course, and Bob Dylan and Ringo and Bruce, of course, Pat Benatar, George Clinton, Joey Ramone in a very weird appearance. Hall and Oates, but not together. They were very much separated. That is so sad to me. Lou Reed also had a very funny appearance. Bonnie Raitt, you also had Run DMC and Cool Moe D, The Fat Boys, DJ Cool Herc, Grandmaster Melly Mel, Jimmy Cliff was in there. So it really blended genres in a way that We Are the World did not. And it's a pretty good song, I think. It is. Very 80s. It's definitely worth seeing the video for sure. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I think they ended up raising like a million bucks, so not a lot of money, but awareness is probably one of the biggest things because a lot of artists would not play Sun City, but artists Did very famously. ([Time 0:24:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/17159cf3-5512-44cb-ac69-dae2c42f1b9e)) - **North Carolina Bathroom Bill Boycott** - North Carolina's 'bathroom bill' sparked a boycott that cost the state $3.76 billion in one year. - Corporations canceled projects and events moved, leading to the law's repeal. Transcript: Josh Clark Back in 2016, in North Carolina, they passed the Public Facilities Privacy and Security Act, much more well known as the bathroom bill, which basically said that in North Carolina, You have to use a public restroom for the sex that you were assigned at birth. Public restrooms that you identify with. People called it mean-spirited, evil. It was anti-trans. It was an attack on a group of people. And it really, it kind of took off. It became one of the first really viral boycotts on social media back in 2016. It had a huge effect. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah. And this was one where hitting in the wallet was a big deal because corporations got involved. PayPal canceled plans to build an office in Charlotte. You know, entertainers got involved, of course. Springsteen, as always, the boss wouldn't play in Sun City or Greensboro. Josh Clark Ain't going to play Greensboro. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant And then, of course, a lot of other bands said, what the boss does, we follow. Movie studios pulled out, which hit them in the financial pocketbook, of course, said, we're not going to shoot there. Sports again gets involved. The NCAA moved several different college championships out of North Carolina. The NBA threatened to pull the All-Star Weekend out of Charlotte. They followed through, too. Josh Clark They moved it to New Orleans that year. Yeah. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant So all this told cost the state of North Carolina $3.76 billion in the year that that bill was around. ([Time 0:29:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a671741c-fcd3-4eb2-8ea0-53bde3b30081)) - **Social Media and Boycotts** - Social media makes boycotts easy to start but hard to sustain due to short attention spans. - Effective boycotts require focus, organization, and follow-through beyond viral moments. Transcript: Josh Clark Thanks to social media, it is really easy to start a boycott, for a boycott to go viral, and then for the news to report on boycotts and how they did. It's almost like a spectator sport to a certain extent. Oh, here's this new boycott. How did it do two months on? I saw an article on Newsweek, and the title was, Here are the corporations being boycotted in June. It's just become that like pedestrian. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, I mean, we should read this one stat. There's one study that found that 54 percent of top brands, more than half have been boycotted and 42 percent of multinational corporations. And we're not saying like poor multinational corporations, but just sort of driving home the point, like you were saying, that, I mean, you said, you know, two months later, let's see How it's doing. Two months later, people might be like, oh, are we boycotting that? Still, I thought that was done. I thought we'd moved on. Which is kind of one of the problems with the social media boycotts. Josh Clark Because with social media, I mean, by definition, it's your attention span is just careening from place to place constantly. It's really hard to stop and focus. And that's a big thing that that boycotts require is focus, dedication, organization, growth. When, you know, when three quarters of the people who were boycotting with you the first week moved on to something else, your boycott's hurting, right? But that is not to say that boycotts starting on social media aren't effective. ([Time 0:34:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c973a2f8-2161-4054-9345-25f39a7aac0e)) - **Goya Boycott Backfired** - The 2020 Goya boycott failed because it triggered opposite political buycotts and didn't hit core customers. - Instead, Goya experienced a 22% sales increase during the boycott period. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, so when there is a boycott, there is also generally a boycott when the other part of the country says, oh, yeah, well, I'm going to buy that thing because you don't want to buy that Thing. Right. Because we like what they're saying. So Goya is a very popular Hispanic food brand here in the U.S. Great black beans. I love those Goya black beans. Y muchas gracias a Goya. That's right. In 2020, it was big news when the CEO of Goya attended an event at the White House and was praising Donald Trump. And a lot of people got upset about that. And Democratic Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez said, hey, we need to boycott Goya. And it turns out that that didn't work so well because it didn't hit enough of those things that you need to do to have a successful boycott. Josh Clark And also because AOC is a boycott magnet. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant For sure. Josh Clark So there were a couple of things. So there was a the boycott sparked a boycott among conservatives, because in the United States, for those of you who don't live here, when you choose a side on a boycott, you're you're Defending your political beliefs. But that is definitely how they work here. And the reasons that Goya wasn't successful as a buy or as a boycott was because there were a lot of people, Latin Hispanic households, who did not have a dog in that fight, who did not choose Sides, who were not like, what are you talking about? We buy Goya products like this doesn't make any sense. And then a lot of those households also are conservatives, too. So they probably would have bought Goya products had they not been buying them already just to show their support. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah. And the boycott that it triggered, apparently Goya got a 22 percent bump in sales because of that boycott. But it did not last long because, like you said, a lot of those people who were like, yeah, I'm going to start buying Goya stuff because this guy praised Donald Trump. They weren't Goya customers before. So maybe sometimes you get someone from a buy cop that's like, hey, these black beans are dynamite. That's my brand from now on. But in this case, it was a quick bump in sales. ([Time 0:36:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/66fc92f9-ab53-4fc1-b2e3-91133a4a3a51)) - **Nike Kaepernick Boycott Boost** - Nike's boycott backlash over supporting Kaepernick led to a $6 billion sales increase. - This demonstrates boycotts can ironically boost brand sales by rallying supporters. Transcript: Josh Clark Yes. That's actually on the if you flip flop the political spectrum, the same thing happened in Nike not too many years ago when they supported Colin Kaepernick while he was taking a knee During the national anthem. And there was a huge backlash on social media against Nike for supporting him. Their people were burning their Nikes and making videos of it and posting it on social media, but it spurred a boycott to support Nike, and Nike made out like bandits for that. They had what analysts suspect was an additional $6 billion in sale in a handful of weeks following the boycott, the call for the boycott. The boycott gave them that much extra money. The support came out for them like that. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant And that's right. Then the NFL got back at Colin Kaepernick by essentially blackballing him. ([Time 0:38:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6069d3f1-4f6b-4124-8ed9-17ae392ffc44)) - **Bud Light Boycott Sales Impact** - Bud Light faced a 32% sales drop after a transgender influencer promotion sparked backlash. - Competitor Modelo Especial, ironically owned by the same parent company, saw sales surge $36 million. Transcript: Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant That was another very recent one. In 2023, a transgender influencer, Dylan Mulvaney, a TikTok video announcing a contest sponsored by Bud Light. And in that video, had the nerve to show a can of Bud Light that the company sent her with an image of her face on it. And that was it. The conservative right got up in arms and they said Bud Light is dead to us. Go woke, go broke. And in the three months following that post, Bud Light sales went down 28 percent compared to the same period in prior years. And the damage was worse in Republican leaning districts, I think 32 percent compared to 22 percent in Democrat districts. Yeah. Josh Clark But ultimately, overall, eight months after the initial boycott, they were down 32% overall in sales. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, so I mean, it was a successful boycott by all accounts. Josh Clark Man, they went berserk about that. It was a big deal here in the U.S. That Bud Light— So just to be clear, they sent Dylan Mulvaney one can with Dylan Mulvaney's face on it. This was not for sale or anything like that. Yeah, yeah. But that was all it took. And yeah, Bud Light just took a beating. They were the number one selling beer. I don't even think just light beer. I think beer in the United States. And they dropped down. It's a disgrace. They dropped down to third in just a few weeks, right? The reason why, there are a few reasons why. Substitutability. You could easily just switch to Coors Light, Miller's Light, and your taste buds would have no idea that you'd switched. But apparently a lot of people switched to Modelo Especial, which we'll get to in a second. And then also, and this explains why Bud Light did this. Because in retrospect, you're like, that was one of the more tone deaf things a brand has ever done. But it turns out Bud Light's customer base is pretty evenly divided along the political spectrum. So I think they just thought like they were doing what they do and were clearly not expecting that kind of backlash. Companies in that situation are much more vulnerable to a backlash when they take any kind of political stance or social stance. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, like when it's a pretty even split on who likes your product. Josh Clark Exactly. Yeah. Because, I mean, if it were all like if Bud Light's entire customer base were LGBTQ, if they had Dylan Mulvaney be like a brand ambassador, it would not matter at all. But because half of their people probably have unflattering views on trans people. Yes, it really put a hurting on them. And then the last one was observability is what they call it. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah. Sometimes you consume a product in private, like the black beans you're eating. Right out of the can. Yeah. You're not just walking around eating a can of black beans in public. But other stuff, you know, it's a little more visible and like, you know, tailgating and being out in public with a beer, being in a bar with a beer. It's a much more public product that you're consuming. And researchers found that even if you were liberal and you were a beer drinker, you might have avoided drinking Bud Light in public just because of the controversy over it. Josh Clark One of the big, there's an ironic twist, I guess, to this whole thing. I said that Modelo Especial became, I think, the number one selling beer after Bud Light dropped off. In the couple of weeks after the boycott started against Bud Light, Modelo's sales went up $36 million more than Bud Light's sales. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, that's amazing. Josh Clark Yeah. So Modelo is like, this is great. The thing is, is Modelo and Bud Light are both owned and distributed by the same companies. ([Time 0:39:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4999e72f-8f1c-4647-bd32-5a669eab7f06)) - **Commit Fully to Social Stances** - Companies should commit fully to social stances or avoid them; wavering damages reputation. - Stick to your values firmly to avoid appearing wishy-washy and losing public trust. Transcript: Josh Clark Let's do that, shall we? Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, I mean, first of all, we mentioned earlier that it doesn't necessarily have to be the big financial hit to cause a problem these days. Just the bad press and the negative press can hurt a company's reputation. That could potentially hurt a stock price. But, I mean, really the only thing that's going to damage the stock price are bad sales. So at the end of the day, it kind of is money. They can probably withstand bad press, but they don't love it. Josh Clark No, but if you can turn the markets on the company, that's a big deal. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, for sure. As far as whether people think companies should get involved with this, it depends on who you ask. There was a survey, I think, from 2017. Is that right? Josh Clark Mm-hmm. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Yeah, not too long ago. It's found that 90% of American consumers expect companies to take an active role in addressing social concerns. There was a different survey that found that 63 percent of millennials and 60 percent of Gen Xers think companies have a more important role than governments do in driving social change. So those are pretty disparate numbers. Josh Clark Right. And people who advise companies like there's an entire industry on advising companies on stuff like this. They say it comes down to the company culture. Do you stand for things? Are you the kind of company that would ever stand for anything? Are you just trying to sell duck boots, you know? Right. You have to ask yourself these kind of things. Do you want to change to be a different kind of company? Who knows? What one of the things that they find is that it is often worse to take a stand and then change your stance than to take no stance at all yeah like targets wishy washy stance on dei policies Right or apparently another big one is companies will celebrate pride month in a country that's that where pride month is much more acceptable, and then just not celebrate it in other Countries where there is Pride Month, but it's not quite as accepted as it is in the other countries. So having like a wishy-washy stance on stuff, that can really damage your company's image because you basically are telling the world, like, we don't really actually have any values. We don't really care about anything social. We're just trying to make money here. So even if you are a company that chooses to take a stance, you really need to stick with it and just stick with it, ride it out, or else just don't do it at all. ([Time 0:44:06](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d466ee30-3622-46a4-8c17-b8ad894aa978)) - **Avoid Complacency in Boycotts** - As an individual, avoid complacency with boycotts by going beyond liking a tweet or brief avoidance. - Dedicate effort and organization to truly drive change through boycott participation. Transcript: Josh Clark Right. And then on the other side, if you're just an everyday person and you want to take part in a boycott, I think one of the issues, Chuck, that we kind of were hinting around throughout this Episode is that a problem is that you can become complacent. Like you're doing enough by, you know, liking a tweet and then not buying Kellogg's cereal for a week and calling it a day. You feel like you're doing your part when you're really not doing much and there's a lot more work to be done. That's kind of a big danger of it for sure. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant I got to tell you, friend, I'm very relieved because a few minutes ago I thought you were about to say something about L.L. Bean. No. When you mentioned duck boots, I was like, oh, no, don't tell me. I got to get rid of my duck boots. Josh Clark Yeah, I've got mine, too. And luckily, there are other brands that make duck boots, but not like L.L. Beans. No. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Are there, though? Sure. Josh Clark I've got some Sperry's that are pretty good. Charles \\Chuck\\ Bryant Oh, yeah. OK. I like Sperry's. So ([Time 0:46:31](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a69000c0-7770-444c-a3db-d64871156af1))