Inside the Maker Mindset With Roboticist Aaed Musa  ## Metadata - Author: [[Hanselminutes with Scott Hanselman]] - Full Title: Inside the Maker Mindset With Roboticist Aaed Musa - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/237dccf9-5b0a-4736-a5c7-17c61ce10c6b ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Hobbyist Builds Advanced Robots** - Aaed Musa built a rope-driven quadruped robot as a hobby outside his mechanical engineering coursework. - He works late nights to balance school and hands-on projects because building helps him apply classroom learning. Transcript: Scott Hanselman Surely this was for some senior project or some master's degree thesis. You must have gotten a grade for this, right? Aaed Musa No, no. This is a hobby for me. This is something I do outside of school to rewind. Scott Hanselman But aren't you overwhelmed with school? How do you have any spare time? I've got kids in school. I've got a kid who's a sophomore. He has no time to build robots. Yeah. Aaed Musa Well, I, it's, uh, it is, there's a lot of late nights. I'll tell you that. Uh, yeah. I don't really have a lot of free time outside of school and building robots, but I make it work, but yeah, lots of late nights, lots of, yeah. Scott Hanselman Does it directly relate to your degree and your, and your work? Like? Are you basically overflowing with enthusiasm for mechanical engineering that even you do your homework, you do your projects, and then you build stuff because you just can't stop Making? Aaed Musa Engineering major and, you know, I'm learning all these cool things, but I'm not really applying it in school. So when I go home, that gives me the opportunity to apply it. So for me, it's like a whole world of a difference, learning in school and then going back home and building robots. Was ([Time 0:01:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/69b52fb6-1f03-43b8-937f-babe3cb59d91)) - **Compliance From FOC And Capstan Drives** - Aaed explains he used brushless motors and FOC controllers to get compliant, natural motion in legged robots. - He replaced gears with smooth drums and rope to create a novel capstan-based drive system. Transcript: Aaed Musa Yeah. So the traditional things are the motor. I'm using a brushless motor. Brushless motors are really common in robotics. They're really high efficiency, high speed. And with brushless motors, you can use FOC controllers, which are field, that stands for field oriented control. And so those are just like these really fancy controllers that allow you to have position control, velocity control and torque control for your motors. And it gives it like this, this almost springiness, like you can turn the motor and then it'll spring back to place when you let go. And that's really important for robots, especially you legged robots, because it gives compliance and it allows you to like dampen or stiffen the joints of the robot to make it, you Know, move in the real world, like a actual animal or like a human would. And it gives it a very natural gait and a very natural movement. So that's used in robotics. And that's what I used. I used O-Drive FOC controllers. O-Drive is a popular FOC controller brand. What else? No gears. There's no gears at all. So this is a completely rope-driven, I was going to say gearing system, but this is completely rope-driven speed reducer system. And so it's similar to gears in the sense that you have something driving something else, but there's no teeth. So you can't call it gears. They're called drums. ([Time 0:05:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c8bb0a50-fdbb-4502-9f7f-ecb06031184b)) - **Prevent Rope Slip With Proper Wrapping** - Test capstan drives for slip concerns and use multiple wraps to exploit the capstan equation for high friction. - Anchor the rope to both drums to further prevent slip and improve reliability. Transcript: Scott Hanselman Are they coupled to each other by rope tension? What if the rope slips? I mean, isn't there an implicit lateral friction that is implying gearing at some molecular level, but like if it slips, then you lose precision and you don't know where you are in space. Yeah. Aaed Musa So that's a great question. And when you think of a rope driven speed reducer, that's probably like the, I guess the first two questions you would think of is A, you know, isn't, isn't it going to slip and then B, well, Rope stretches. So aren't you going to lose precision precision? And both are very valid questions. And both of the things that I had to challenge or that I had to tackle first when I started this project. But no, the rope doesn't slip at all. And that's because of something called the capstan equations. So the cool thing is that if you wrap rope around a drum, you're actually exponentially increasing the amount of friction. That's the amount of friction force between the rope and the drum with every turn of rope you have. So I forget the exact number, but it's possible to like hold a ship, the weight of a ship by wrapping enough turns of rope on a drum with just like human force, human level of force. And that's kind of crazy if you think about it, but the math works out. So yeah, there's no slip. And I've designed the drive in a way that you, the rope is anchored onto both drums to further increase the amount of friction. And yeah, there's just no slip. ([Time 0:07:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3edadcfa-5c03-4250-a2d9-634405f2c7ff)) - **Early Maker Roots** - Aaed recounts a childhood of hot-glue crafts, taking apart electronics, and building a cardboard Green Lantern suit. - He began tinkering with 3D printers and disassembling a laptop to try making a laser around age ten. Transcript: Aaed Musa Remote control at the house. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lots of talking tos that I've got from my parents for taking things apart. Yeah, to put it mildly. But yeah, I've always just really been intrigued with building things. Like as a kid, I was really, really into arts and crafts. You know, I remember like the first day I bought my first hot glue gun from Walmart. And I was just hot gluing a bunch of things together. I don't know. I've just always been fascinating with like working with my hands. And I remember one from my brother's birthday one year, I built him this Green Lantern suit out of cardboard. I just always really liked building things. And that spiraled into the world of STEM in middle school when I got introduced to 3D printing. And like you said, I've taken apart a bunch of things in my house. My parents had this laptop this one time and in my defense, they weren't using it anymore. They had just like set it apart. It was an old laptop, but yeah, I took that apart and I think I was trying to build a laser. Okay. You're trying to build a laser with a laptop. How old are you at this point? I think I was, this had to have been, I was probably around 10. Okay. 10 years old. ([Time 0:10:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b3aed519-cd8d-4827-8f7a-9f0585c66275)) - **Mechanical Engineering As A Broad Foundation** - Aaed views mechanical engineering as a versatile discipline that eases pivoting into other engineering areas. - He focuses on mechanical design while acknowledging software skills still need growth. Transcript: Aaed Musa Definitely. My skills mostly lie with mechanical design software. My software skills, despite, despite appearances are still pretty rud I think I have a long way to go in terms of software skills, but I think, yeah, my real skills lie in mechanical design. And I think mechanical engineering for me is like the mechanical engineers, we're all hats, I feel. And if you have a mechanical engineering degree, I think it's easy for you to pivot into several different other engineering disciplines. It's a pretty versatile field and it's kind of open-ended. ([Time 0:12:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b5cae161-2498-45a7-be7a-87d435f3be8a)) - **Iterate From The Hardest Part First** - Iterate starting with the robot's most unique component and prototype that until it works. - Build a single leg first, then scale up to the whole robot to reduce iterations later. Transcript: Aaed Musa Well, the actual robot itself, I just made one time. But I started with just a single leg and that took a couple of prototypes. I'd say I think I built probably three prototypes, but even that isn't the full picture because just building the actuator itself, that probably took maybe 20 different iterations To get right. I kind of start with like the single most unique component in the robot and really iterate on that. And then as I kind of level up and, okay, I'm going to build a leg and then build the robot, the number of iterations goes down. ([Time 0:14:13](https://share.snipd.com/snip/de7a91d6-6077-4dba-a464-1a8a83b92e26)) - **Tony Stark Workshop Feeling** - Aaed likens the thrill of holding his cycloidal actuator to feeling like Tony Stark building Iron Man tech. - He draws creative inspiration from superhero maker narratives while working in his apartment lab. Transcript: Scott Hanselman Is this the point at which you feel like Tony Stark when you make something like that? Aaed Musa Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, Iron Man is one of my favorite superheroes. So yeah, I definitely take inspiration from him and just the idea that he just builds really cool things. Yeah. Whenever I build the robot, I definitely feel like Tony Stark in his, in his workshop, you know, building his, his next mark, uh, whatever. And yeah, I get that feeling a lot. ([Time 0:14:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e88db650-0e3c-43c0-ba8c-9f68a103db1d)) - **Hobbyist Work Can Mirror Industry** - Aaed argues hobbyist work can reach professional levels; companies like Boston Dynamics scale similar ideas with industrial resources. - His projects aim to show what individuals can build at home with accessible tools. Transcript: Aaed Musa Exactly. I think that's a great way to put it. Yeah. If Boston Dynamics is like, you know, a bunch of guys like me who are just really passionate about this stuff, but with industrial level equipment and just out of this world, manufacturing Capabilities. Um, and you know, a lot of guys who are much, much smarter than me and are much, much, uh, more into like the niches of engineering into the software and electrical engineering. And yeah, when you bring a group of guys like that, you can do make incredible robots. Um, but yeah, I think for me, my, the robots I make, they could be made by Boston Dynamics 100%. But yeah, I think it's more for the hobbyists, showing what you can do at home. I think for me, that's what the real appeal is for my videos. It's showing that, yeah, Boston Dynamics is really cool. ([Time 0:16:03](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0dc8eb6a-8762-41f3-9676-f2648fb8f4ca)) - **Decide When To Print Or Buy** - Choose between 3D printing versus buying parts based on project goals and time investment. - If aiming for DIY accessibility, print parts; if you need reliability or speed, buy commercial actuators. Transcript: Scott Hanselman Like what's the threshold where it's like, I need to stop and I need to buy something and have it shipped here versus just buying, getting an M3 screw that you found and you've got a pile Of them from Alibaba. Yeah. Aaed Musa That's always a hard thing to figure out. And there's no real good answer other than I test things. And if it's not good enough, then I'll go out and buy the actual thing. And it also just depends on like, okay, what's the scope of this project? You know, if I'm building a robot, if the goal is to make it as cheap as possible, then maybe I'll 3D print everything. If the goal is to just get it to work because I really like the idea of this robot, then maybe I'll just go out and buy actuators. So yeah, it's a couple of different things, but I definitely say the intention of the project going in, do I want this to be something that I know everyone can make and something that is Just completely DIY, something that can just be completely 3D printed. And also things like, you know, how much time do I really want to invest in making my own actuator that can take months to get right. If I can just go out and buy one, that's going to be a lot faster, a lot easier for me. ([Time 0:17:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/226c3181-eba9-4c34-8700-9c57d6132ee9)) - **Kara Mini Will Be Open Source** - Aaed is developing a cheaper, open-source mini version of Kara intended for makers to build at home. - The mini retains capstan drives but aims to be far more affordable and documented. Transcript: Aaed Musa Yeah, it's not quite packaged up yet. There's like, no documentation at all on how to build it. But right now I am working on a mini version of Kara that is going to be ridiculously cheap. For a robot that is but yeah, I'm working on a mini version of Kara that is going to be open source and something that people can make at home. But that's going to be a lot better than this version. ([Time 0:19:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/22649a1b-13f4-4855-b088-fbba64141dd2)) - **Vision Is A Different Technical Challenge** - Kara is currently teleoperated and largely blind, relying only on an IMU for balance. - Adding vision and autonomy is planned and requires multidisciplinary team members. Transcript: Aaed Musa Oh, yeah. Kara is completely blind. I mean, she has googly eyes. So maybe not that blind. But in terms of computer vision, there's really none. I have an IMU on Chara just for a bit of stability, but everything else is, it's just teleoperated. But yeah, the goal in the future is with Chara Mini and just regular Chara in general is to add more, more vision and more autonomous capabilities. You said an IMU, that's an inertial measurement unit. Scott Hanselman Can you talk about why that is important in robotics? Aaed Musa Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, if you, you know, picture a robot that you build, if it's going out into the world, there's so many unknowns. If the robot is walking up a hill, for example, how do you compensate and ensure that the robot's not going to tip over and fall? The robot steps on a rock or something that is not part of the flat ground? How do you ensure that the robot stays stable? So an IMU, like you said, inertial measurement unit, it's a sensor that essentially measures tilt in all three axes. ([Time 0:20:09](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9402b622-3ebc-44ea-8d1b-85772db2f133)) - **Build A Multidisciplinary Team** - Recruit teammates with complementary skills (software/vision) for senior design and autonomy work. - Use multidisciplinary teams to add capabilities beyond mechanical design. Transcript: Aaed Musa So yeah i didn't mention this but cara mini is actually going to be my senior design project so congratulations yeah yeah so i'm going to be working with a couple other people on making It happen and you know uh i haven't fully built my team yet but you know we are planning on getting like people who are outside of my discipline, outside of like the really mechanical, The mechanical part of the robot. And so, yeah, the hope is to get people who are, you know, more software literate and can help with the computer vision. Scott Hanselman That's going to be huge. And you're a starting, you're a senior this year. So this is going to be like a year out, like a year from now, there should hopefully be a bunch of Cara minis running around causing trouble. Aaed Musa Well, yeah, I'm actually, um, this is my last semester. ([Time 0:22:01](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c6e3ced7-8def-422a-806a-d848665c0d05)) - **Apartment Lab With Bamboo Lab Printers** - Aaed runs a scrappy apartment lab centered on three Bamboo Lab FDM printers and an Elegoo SLA printer. - He favors fast FDM for iteration and calls his Bamboo Labs printers vital to his workflow. Transcript: Aaed Musa Yeah. Very scrappy. I mean, it's just my apartment. So I have, I have three different bamboo lab printers. I have the A1, the A1 Mini, and the X1 Carbon. And if you don't know, Bamboo Lab, awesome printers. They're super fast. I totally recommend them. And I don't just say that because they've sponsored my video, but they genuinely are, I think, at the forefront of FDM printing right now. And their printers are super affordable. Yeah uh my printers are like my main manufacturing method I have an Elegoo Saturn 5 uh SLA printer and it's okay it's it's all right I don't do a ton of SLA printing just because FDM is just So much faster and I can crank out parts in a fraction of the time that I can with the SLA printer. But yeah, I have, you know, just regular tools, wrench, screwdriver, all of that. ([Time 0:25:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ea88d992-69f7-4fba-9a29-68bcb79d8571))