Julio Torres Spins Immigrant Stress Into Satire  ## Highlights - **Fantasy Serves Emotional Truth In His Work** - Torres uses fantastical, magical-realism flourishes to render interior emotional truth rather than to be fanciful for its own sake. - He says these flourishes emerge naturally to explain feelings that straightforward realism can't convey. Transcript: Julio Torres Yeah, I mean, it just happens to be the way that I am comfortable and feel able to explain feeling and just sort of get to the truth of my experience. I don't sit down and think, oh, I want to write something that's fantastical. In fact, I tend to want to write something that's very grounded in reality. ([Time 0:06:11](https://share.snipd.com/snip/be7f0ac9-111d-425c-a9df-a93e10ec49b9)) - **Immigration Rules Force Impossible Proof Of Stability** - Torres describes immigration paperwork as built-in catch-22s: you must show money to get a visa but are often not legally allowed to earn that money. - He cites roughly $6,000 needed for renewal, including lawyer fees, which forces dependence on unpaid labor and friends. Transcript: Julio Torres I mean, all the catch-22s of the immigration system, the needing to pay for a visa but not being allowed to work for it, which implies you should have had the money from somewhere else That isn't working, even though the reality of so many people in this country, and especially immigrants in this country, is living paycheck to paycheck. You know, it's like the fact that I would have $6,000 saved somewhere, it was just laughable. Terry Gross And that's what it takes to renew the visa? Julio Torres I mean, when I was doing it, yeah, I don't doubt that it's more expensive now. In my experience, around $6,000, which includes the government fees, but also the fees for the lawyer, that because it's such a complex system, you don't want to get rejected because You feel something wrong. And they certainly make it so you're dependent on lawyers. So the film takes place during the time of me transitioning from a student visa to a work visa. But even when I was moving on from a work visa to an artist visa, which is the last visa I had, part of the requirement was to show that I had a established career in the U.S. That warranted an artist visa. ([Time 0:06:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/135215bc-c71c-41b2-a269-f6f7ab9c03d6)) - **How A GoFundMe Kept Julio In The U.S.** - Julio Torres raised funds for his artist visa via a humorous GoFundMe called Legalize Julio made by friends. - The campaign reached its goal within hours, showing how community support funded the $6,000 visa costs and inspired collaborative art friendships. Transcript: Julio Torres So you're dependent on lawyers. So the film takes place during the time of me transitioning from a student visa to a work visa. But even when I was moving on from a work visa to an artist visa, which is the last visa I had, part of the requirement was to show that I had a established career in the U.S. That warranted an artist visa. But at the same time, I had to throw at the needle of not making it seem like I had been working and making money as an artist because that would have been illegal because I didn't have an Artist visa yet. Terry Gross You had a student visa? Julio Torres Originally, I came to the U.S. With a student visa, and then I had a work visa, and then I had to go from a work visa to an artist visa because under the work visa, I wasn't able to earn money as a stand-up comedian or writer Or anything creative because that's not what the work visa is for. Terry Gross Well, that does seem to be a catch-22. How did you get around that? Julio Torres By showing a wealth of experience that had come for free, that had come from earning no money, which is sort of like the only way that you can thread that needle. Terry Gross What did you do for no money? Julio Torres Oh, I mean, the irony of that is that it's not hard to establish a reputable career as an artist for no money. That is very true. Terry Gross That's how I started in public radio even. Julio Torres Yeah, so it's not that big of an issue show that you've done hundreds of shows for free because that is the truth of pursuing something creative um by that point i had done enough stand-up That getting the artist visa was not that difficult what was difficult was again getting the money for it and um that was the second time that I was trying to get money for a visa. But this time around, I had made so many friends who actually encouraged me to make a GoFundMe, which I found to be humiliating. I did not like the idea, but then... Wait, but they did it funny. Terry Gross So that made it good, I think. They did it funny. Julio Torres They did it funny, yes. Terry Gross They made a video called Legalize julio and and they make a plea on your behalf that you know you should be able to stay in the u.s and you need money to do it so so help him yes yeah and um it Julio Torres Was sold within a matter of hours this girl fund me like uh got me where i needed to be within like two or three hours it was just so moving to feel like a part of a community. And that's when I really, really realized that I love making art and all kinds of work in community and with friends. And that's why so many of my really close friends are in this movie and will continue to be in everything that I do. Terry Gross So when people think of immigrants from El Salvador right now, they think of like escaping gangs and poverty and danger. Did that figure at all into you leaving? And what year did you come to the U.S.? Julio Torres I came to the U.S. In 2009. And no, no, to be honest, my experience is radically different than the crisis we're all seeing in the news. The crisis is very present in New York City right now. But, you know, the thing about me and the character that I play in this movie is that it wasn't really the story of someone escaping for survival. It's the story of someone just escaping or leaving for a greater ambition to find himself. And that is what I think makes the story very specific. Terry Gross So I want to get to the title of your movie, which is Problemista. And I thought like, I'm not sure if that's a real word or if it's a word that you made up because it's a great word. So I actually looked it up in a few places. And what it said was that it's a word for somebody who creates problems or solves problems. And it's especially used in chess. But I was talking to you about this right before the interview started, and you said you didn't even know it was a word. You kind of made it up because it sounded like this is something that would be a word, and it described a lot of your movie. So tell me about Problemista from your perspective. Julio Torres Yeah, I mean, to preface it, the road to finding a title for the movie was long. It had many titles during many different points, and none of them felt completely right. And then at one point, we were toying with the idea of calling it Problema, which is just literally means problem. And then I just, and then I don't know, I just felt dread calling this movie problem, because it just felt so dreary. And that's not the tone of the movie at all. So then I was trying to find something a little bit more playful. And I was thinking of what you would call someone in an artistic movement in Spanish, like a surrealist is a surrealista. And then I thought, well, then maybe someone who creates art from problems is a problemista. So I just sort of, I just sort of made it up. And it sounds like, almost sounds like the kind of thing that you'd make up in slang in El Salvador, sort of in the way that you hear about people being fashionistas or maximistas. It's like, oh, a problemista is someone who is attracted to problems or thrives within problems. ([Time 0:07:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0b5fba8d-d99f-4a24-9a1a-e7092542bcc5)) - **When You Get One Big Opportunity Go All In** - When given rare access (like a first film), Julio advises going 'all in' rather than holding back on scale or ambition. - He intentionally made an ornate first movie instead of a modest preview to fully use his opportunity. Transcript: Julio Torres It's a lot. I really didn't... Terry Gross Oh, and you have some real stars in it, too. Julio Torres Yes. Yeah. I mean, thank God none of them are high-maintenance people. But to be completely honest, now that I look back on it, I think that I didn't take for granted the access that I felt was granted to me by making a movie. And I didn't take for granted the fact that I would ever be able to make another one. So I was like, why would I make a little preview of what ([Time 0:15:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3c1df0c5-48d8-485b-9915-0f9b3336c81b)) - **Tilda's Look Was Built Around Her Art-World Fury** - Julio cast Tilda Swinton as an art-world 'problem creator' inspired by people he worked for as a short-term assistant in New York. - He designed her hair and look to feel oddly off: a wrong shade of red and a haircut constantly at war with itself to reflect her temperament. Transcript: Julio Torres It's a lot. I really didn't... Terry Gross Oh, and you have some real stars in it, too. Julio Torres Yes. Yeah. I mean, thank God none of them are high-maintenance people. But to be completely honest, now that I look back on it, I think that I didn't take for granted the access that I felt was granted to me by making a movie. And I didn't take for granted the fact that I would ever be able to make another one. So I was like, why would I make a little preview of what I could do? Why not just go all in? Terry Gross So continuing with the theme of problemista, the Tilda Swinton character is a real problem creator. Her only way of relating is through arguing and making accusation. Her approach to life is to get what you want, become a problem. And part of her philosophy is always send back the food. So I want to play a scene where your character is in a restaurant with her. And this is at the point where she's throwing all these problems at him to get a show for her late husband's paintings. And these are often insurmountable problems. So they're meeting at a restaurant. She's not to sponsor him until he succeeds. So meanwhile, the waiter comes in, and you both order salads. It's a goat cheese salad, and you ask for it without the cheese. And then you're finishing your salads when the waiter comes back, and that's where we pick up. And here's Tilda Swinton starting off. Julio Torres Was there something wrong with your salad, Alejandro? Oh, no. No, no, it's fine. Terry Gross It's just I can't help noticing that they neglected to hold the cheese as we specifically asked them to. Julio Torres Oh, I don't think you said no cheese. I'm sorry. Terry Gross We did, and this young gentleman cannot eat cheese. Julio Torres It's fine. Terry Gross You tell him. Julio Torres I'm vegan. Allergic. To goat cheese or... Everything. Oh, I apologize. We'll refund the salad. Justin Chang Well, that's not what we want. Uh, okay. Julio Torres I just don't know what else I could do. I can't go back in time. Fetch somebody else who would say something different. I'll get my supervisor. Justin Chang Oh, you're going to hold us hostage now. Julio Torres Okay, so get my supervisor or don't. Those are the choices. I either get him or I don't get him. Terry Gross Okay, so there's something so quintessentially New York about Tilda Swain's character. And I was wondering, like, did you know people like her in El Salvador? Was this a new kind of creature for you? Julio Torres Oh, I had actually never thought of that. No, I don't think I ever really encountered this kind of, as you put it, creature in El Salvador. No. Or, at the very least, I was never in the receiving end of this kind of creature in El Salvador. Terry Gross And in New York? Julio Torres And in New York, boy, I was. Terry Gross Tell me more. Julio Torres I mean, she's an amalgamation of so many people that I met. I think that it's almost like the artist's rite of passage in New York City, at least to wind up being the assistant to so many people who are just so flustered by the fact that they haven't Figured out so much. And I was a short-term assistant for so many people. And I, okay, so another part of me also identifying as a problemista is that I am very attracted to difficult people. I don't see difficult people as nightmares to escape. I'm really drawn to them like a moth to a flame. And then there are more than a few that I came to really, really, really empathize with and appreciate. And I think that Tilda's character is rooted in that. And also, to be completely fair about it, whenever I was an assistant, it was in the receiving end of the wrath of these art world egos. I also acknowledge that I was a very incompetent assistant. I have zero attention to detail and I can barely keep my own life on track. So the fact that I was ever tasked with doing that for someone else is just a recipe for disaster. Terry Gross Why do you think you're attracted to difficult people? I don't ([Time 0:15:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/950e1a44-afbb-4ba3-8435-787c571cdb46)) - **Being Drawn To Difficult People Fuels His Work** - Torres admits he's drawn to 'difficult people' and frames them as sources of creative material rather than problems to escape. - He likens this attraction to a moth to a flame and rooted Tilda's character in people he empathized with while assisting them. Transcript: Julio Torres Mean, she's an amalgamation of so many people that I met. I think that it's almost like the artist's rite of passage in New York City, at least to wind up being the assistant to so many people who are just so flustered by the fact that they haven't Figured out so much. And I was a short-term assistant for so many people. And I, okay, so another part of me also identifying as a problemista is that I am very attracted to difficult people. I don't see difficult people as nightmares to escape. I'm really drawn to them like a moth to a flame. And then there are more than a few that I came to really, really, really empathize with and appreciate. And I think that Tilda's character is rooted in that. And also, to be completely fair about it, whenever I was an assistant, it was in the receiving end of the wrath of these art world egos. I also acknowledge that I was a very incompetent assistant. ([Time 0:18:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b9360fbd-dd65-40ad-94c1-eb4e35965d0a)) - **His Mother Built The Movie's Childhood Castle** - Julio's real mother, an architect/designer in El Salvador, designed the film's backyard castle/fort featured in Problemista. - He describes ongoing creative collaboration with her on costumes and set pieces even after emigrating. Transcript: Julio Torres Something that's, like, a little off. Terry Gross The mother in the film seems just like wonderful. She and the Alejandro character, your character, live in the countryside in El Salvador. And she builds like a fort for him. I should mention here that your actual mother is a designer and architect. So you grew up probably in a very visual world, which certainly serves you well as a filmmaker and as a comic. Julio Torres Yeah. So early in the film, we see that the mother and son character have a bond and a relationship with her creating. And she creates this little castle which is interesting that you use the word fort because that is sort of the intention of it is to like keep him safe and sound and away from danger and This like sort of magical little structure that's in the movie was designed by my mother by my real mother wow and i you know i i having a piece of her in what I do. Is she still in El Salvador? Yes. Yeah, my whole family. Terry Gross Oh, that's beautiful that you were able to emigrate to the U.S., but you have a project together. Julio Torres Yeah, and we always have a project together, whether it's like coming up with a coat rack for my apartment, or I have like an event that I need clothes for. And then I send her sketches of what I'm thinking of of having made. And she gives me her feedback or like she shows me the back that she's making for herself. We always have a back and forth of collaboration. And I have really come to find that ([Time 0:26:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ab29f2d0-d20e-449e-8117-e0486b1af41b)) - **Stand-Up Was A Practical Gateway To Writing** - Julio stumbled into stand-up in New York as a practical way to showcase writing after day jobs and coat-check shifts. - He found open mics searchable online, started performing to practice scripts, and fell in love with the performance form. Transcript: Terry Gross A stand-up comic, right? Is there much stand-up comedy in El Salvador? Julio Torres No, at least not in the time when I was growing up there. Terry Gross So how were you exposed to it? I wasn't. Julio Torres So I came to the US wanting to be a writer, wanting to be specifically a writer for TV and film. But very much like in the movie, my visa was running out and I didn't know how long I'd be able to stay here. And I kept aspiring to find a day job that would make me so that I was able to stay here. And then I remember being at one of these day jobs one day, like working a coat check and like thinking, well, why am I here? Am I in New York just so that I can afford being in New York? Is the goal of living in New York to make rent in New York? Is that all there is? And then I remember the original goal that brought me here, the wanting to be a writer. And I had no idea how to write a script that would ever get made. Just popped into my head that stand-up comedy was something that was available to me in New York City for free, meaning I didn't have to take any classes. I didn't have to know anyone in the business. And I could just Google New York City open mic tonight. And lo and behold, there was this website that had an inventory of every single open mic in New York City for free. So I started going to them as a way of showcasing my writing. And the very first time I did it was sort of like means to an end. The end being a professional TV and film writer. And then I fell in love with performance. I fell in love with the world I accidentally wandered into. And I made a lot of friends in that world. And then the stand-up became a calling card for what I do now. Julio ([Time 0:30:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/be8b1976-2412-4242-b548-384fe976b36c)) - **Personifying Objects Is His Creative Engine** - Torres keeps childhood play imagination alive by assigning personalities to objects, which became his comedic voice. - He links this habit to growing up around designers and never shedding the toy-stories that others lose in adolescence. Transcript: Terry Gross A lot of your stand-up comedy is based on like giving personalities to objects and talking about like colors and shapes. This is not your standard stand-up material. It's not about sex. It's not about neurosis. You impersonate a Brita filter in one of your bits. And I actually want to play another clip. And in this, you're talking about toys and stuff. And I'm going to give away one of the punchlines because I think it's going to be a little hard to hear. And you're not seeing it. So I'm just going to help out a little bit by saying this is about one of the Happy Meal toys that you saw and how it makes no sense to you. So here's a clip from my guest Julio Torres doing stand-up. Julio Torres Do you remember the Disney animated film, The Hunchback of Notre Dame? It wasn't a hit, but it was there. It's just sort of what we got that year. Sometimes we get lions, sometimes we get genies, sometimes we get a tender Parisian drama for the children. But a part about that movie that really, really stayed with me was its villain. This withering, possibly closeted, deeply troubled little man named Monsignor Cloud Frollo. And during the peak of his narrative arc, Monsignor Cloud Frollo sings into the roaring flames of the fire about his lust for the gypsy girl Esmeralda. In that moment we see him turn lust into misogyny into essentially genocide anyway that was a happy meal toy So while some children were playing with like a ninja turtle or a transformer, Others were like, oh, yeah, mine is this sort of like medieval court justice. He's morally bankrupt. There's a lot of self-hate in him. That combined with power just makes him lash out in really toxic and scary ways. And sometimes, I don't know, I put him in a little car. Terry Gross In the tv special and this is from a 2019 hbo comedy special called my favorite shapes you see the little figure and um he looks like he's singing in an italian opera you know as opposed To this like really evil figure in priestly, you know, this, this monsignor who's really evil. So it's, it's, it's, it's really funny. You seem to love miniatures and objects. And do you attribute that to like your mother being an architect and designer, your father being a civil engineer, so that they inhabited the world of design and objects. Julio Torres That must be it. But I also think that the creative exercise of attributing personality and stories to inanimate objects is something that most of us have in childhood. I mean, that is literally what playing with a toy is. Feeling for them, making up stories for them. And I think that most people lose that somewhere in adolescence. It is just sort of gone by adulthood. And I think that I really disliked adolescence and adulthood so much that I just retained it, that I just like never shook it away. So I don't really think I'm doing something that no one does. I think ([Time 0:35:42](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2ed64b33-8624-484d-8d3a-392577274919))