May the 4th Be With You  🔗 **Source:** [May the 4th Be With You](https://share.snipd.com/episode/76d5c1f4-461e-4af0-8289-1b1f1625604c) ## Highlights - **Seven Year Old Eric's Star Wars Obsession** - Eric Jentsch remembers seeing Star Wars at age seven and immediately becoming obsessed, watching it multiple times even on vacation in Honolulu. - He and his school friends replayed the film repeatedly, showing how instant, cross-age fandom formed around the movie in 1977. Transcript: Eric Jentsch Ago in a galaxy far, far away. Lizzie Peabody Okay, in a less famous story you probably haven't heard. So a moderate amount of time ago in a suburb of Illinois, young Eric Jentz, seven years old, goes to the movies with his family. Eric is a curator of entertainment at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. But back in 1977, he was a consumer of entertainment, a little kid. And the day his parents took him to the theater to see the very first Star Wars movie, he had no idea what he was in for. He snuggled into his theater seat, the lights went down, and the iconic, copyrighted music began to play. Eric Jentsch I remember just being blown away, very beginning, from the scroll to the end, just being fixated, excited. Just my world opened up changed. It sounds really dramatic, but it's true. Lizzie Peabody Eric, in all his seven years on Earth, had never seen anything like this. Oh, wow. Eric Jentsch Robots, ray guns, you know, evil, like strange religions. It's like all was new, right? Lizzie Peabody It was a revelation to Eric that movies or TV could even be like this. Eric Jentsch Oh, this is something for me. This is something I like. It's not something like you're brought to or something that's like supposedly for kids or like a Disney thing, which I liked. But you know, there's a moral and a message to it. This was like exciting. Like, wait, what? There's kind of aliens. It's kind of scary. It's funny. Like the whole idea of the force, like to me, that was like, whoa. Lizzie Peabody And the second he left the movies, all he could think about was how to get back there and see Star Wars again. And so a short time later, when his family went on vacation to Hawaii. Eric Jentsch I made my family go see Star Wars in Honolulu. And that was the highlight of my trip to Hawaii. So I'm sure my family was thrilled that they went all the way, you know, to Hawaii to go see Star Wars again. It wasn't even the first time. It was like a second or third time. Yeah. Lizzie Peabody When he got home, he saw it again and again. Six, seven, ten times. It became a fixation. ([Time 0:00:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6947d45f-fd0e-4422-a5b3-1d1471f30f39)) - **Star Wars Provided Hope During 1970s Malaise** - Ryan Lintelman links Star Wars' appeal to 1970s American malaise after Watergate and Vietnam, offering a reassuring moral story when faith in institutions was low. - Lucas built a classic hero's-journey fairy tale that let audiences see themselves as scrappy rebels restoring justice. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody Situate us in time. What was going on in the United States then? Ryan Lintelman The mid-70s I often talk about is kind of like a period of malaise in American life. You know, it's not long after the Watergate scandal, and the Cold War seems to be ramping up, and a lot of blue-collar workers especially are losing their jobs. There's a lot of economic changes that are really shaking the foundation of how Americans like to think of themselves as a nation that is sort of an industrial powerhouse, that's always Moving forward in a morally right way. But Vietnam had really shaken that idea. You know, people are thinking like, wait, were we the good guys or the bad guys in this war? It's kind of hard to tell. Lizzie Peabody Ryan says all of this amounted to a sort of moral and economic crisis of faith among Americans. And that national mood was reflected in pop culture. Ryan Lintelman So you've got a lot of, you know, crime films or films about the mob, for instance, like, you know, that Godfather, that are morally ambiguous, or you sometimes find yourselves rooting For the bad guys, or you don't know who the good guy is. Lizzie Peabody This was the era of Taxi Driver, Serpico, All the President's Men, Apocalypse Now, movies with flawed protagonists and dubious authority figures. But this was not the Hollywood that George Lucas grew up with. In fact, it was quite different. Ryan Lintelman You know, Hollywood in the 1930s and 40s was still governed by the production code, which really limited the way that filmmakers told stories. And one of the things was that good always had to triumph over evil. Really, that was a requirement. And that's written into this code that was self-enforcing in the industry. Lizzie Peabody George Lucas grew up watching movies where the good guys always won. Westerns where the hero rode in on a white horse and drove the ne'er out of town. And one samurai movie in particular called The Hidden Fortress. This is a samurai film that I admittedly have not seen. So lay it out for me. What was the importance of that movie? Ryan Lintelman The Hidden Fortress, I think at the time Star Wars came out, wasn't as well-known. It's now recognized as one of the great films of Japanese cinema. But it's set in 16th century Japan. And there are two peasants. One is tall and one is short. This is how it starts. These two peasants can't stop squabbling as they're traipsing through a desert. Oh, that sounds familiar. Yeah. Go that way. You'll be malfunctioning within a day, you no-sighted scrap pile. Lizzie Peabody And don't let me catch you following me. Ryan Lintelman You know, like the droids in the Star Wars films, they split up and are eventually reunited. Lizzie Peabody Eric Jentz says Lucas might have also gotten inspiration from old comic books. Like, there's this one he remembers. Eric Jentsch Jack Kirby's New Gods. There's a character named Darkseid who's sort of helmeted. There's a power called the Source. There's a story about his son Orion is on the other side of things and doesn't know, you know, they kind of trade children in a way. And that's sort of like the Luke-Dark Vader connection. Lizzie Peabody But George Lucas was also drawing on something much older than the media of his youth, something ancient. Ryan Lintelman There is this theorist named Joseph Campbell who wrote a very influential book in the mid-century called The Hero with a Thousand Faces, where he made this argument that there's something That he called the monomyth, that every civilization has a very similar story. Lizzie Peabody A story where there's a lowly hero who, usually with the help of a wise guide, discovers they have special powers. And after a time away learning and improving their skills, they return home and overcome the bad guys and justice is restored. This is also called The Hero's Journey. Ryan Lintelman That also was very much on George Lucas's mind. He had read that book. He was very, you know, thoughtful about building in all of the facets of the monomyth into the story. Lizzie Peabody So with Star Wars, Lucas wasn't trying to do something new. In fact, you could argue he was telling the oldest story ever told. And if you're not familiar with Star Wars, never fear. I will lay out the basics for you. The movie drops us into a galaxy at a time of civil war. Rebels are fighting back against an evil and authoritarian galactic empire. The empire rules through violence and intimidation. And the rebel alliance is working in secret to overthrow the empire and restore freedom and self-governance to the galaxy. The hero, Luke Skywalker, is a farm boy learning to harness his power to fight for good. And he's helped out by a ragtag coalition thrown together by circumstance. A strange old hermit with mystical powers, a couple of droids, a princess with a killer hairdo, a smuggler, and a Wookiee. They're lovable and brave, and the odds are definitely stacked against them. Ryan Lintelman People really saw themselves in the characters in Star Wars American audiences did. And part of that is because of the sort of original foundational myth of the United States. These scrappy rebels that are fighting against an authoritarian empire. You know, troops coming in and knocking down doors and just trampling over people's rights. That's the American Revolution, right? And that's how Americans like to think of themselves, that they decided it was time to make a stand. That is the story of Star Wars from the beginning. Lizzie Peabody This was a story the nation could feel good about, a new American fairy tale. So it sounds like while the story itself was not new, the moment was right for it. Ryan Lintelman Yeah, yeah. And I think that this really self-conscious idea of giving Americans something to believe in again, of thinking of themselves in a new way as the morally just force in the world, it's An implicit message that I think people walked away with just feeling good. Lizzie Peabody So good, they wanted to see it again. And again. Star Wars quickly became the highest-grossing film ever to hit American theaters. And stay there. It played continuously in theaters for well over a year. ([Time 0:10:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/69a905f6-3057-4ee4-9bc8-c957bbedb100)) - **Star Wars As The Ancient Hero's Journey** - The episode explains George Lucas drew on Joseph Campbell's monomyth, crafting Star Wars as an ancient Hero's Journey rather than a novel plot. - That deliberate use of archetype made the film feel timeless and universally familiar. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody A story where there's a lowly hero who, usually with the help of a wise guide, discovers they have special powers. And after a time away learning and improving their skills, they return home and overcome the bad guys and justice is restored. This is also called The Hero's Journey. Ryan Lintelman That also was very much on George Lucas's mind. He had read that book. He was very, you know, thoughtful about building in all of the facets of the monomyth into the story. Lizzie Peabody So with Star Wars, Lucas wasn't trying to do something new. In fact, you could argue he was telling the oldest story ever told. ([Time 0:13:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/38ff2de9-240f-4598-aa8f-68e0efd0fc92)) - **How Star Wars Rescued Hollywood** - Star Wars revitalized American cinema by demonstrating an independent filmmaker could create a blockbuster within the studio system. - The film's success pulled audiences back to theaters and reshaped how Hollywood financed effects-driven franchises. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody And it actually pulled the entire movie industry out of the tank. Ryan Lintelman The thing that's true as a film historian, you always hear, like every generation thinks that Hollywood is dead and the movies are over, right? Every generation? Every generation, they think the same thing. And that was happening again at that era. The studios were closing down, right? This was something that all of the old studios like MGM that sold off its backlot and all of its props. That's why we have the ruby slippers here, because they sold at auction. Literally, it seemed like Hollywood was just closing up shop. And then Lucas comes in and creates this new model. He says, yeah, I am an independent filmmaker, but I can work within the studio system. I can, you know, build a film with special effects and, you know, build new stars. Americans came back to theaters. ([Time 0:16:35](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e405e953-737b-4359-806d-8bd4efb54b4b)) - **Star Wars Created The Modern Merch Franchise** - Star Wars pioneered modern franchise merchandising, turning toys, lunchboxes, and comics into major revenue streams. - That merch-fueled fandom also birthed costume-based conventions and visible fan identity in public spaces. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody No film before Star Wars had turned toys, action figures, lunchboxes and thermoses, comic books, many of which we have in the collections of the museum, into a prime revenue stream. The merch fueled the film and the film fueled more merch. And all of a sudden, people were wearing costumes and lining up around the block to get into the movies. Ryan Lintelman And so you see this sort of new style of fandom come about too, right? Was that new? Lizzie Peabody Like dressing up as your favorite character that started with Star Wars? Yeah. Ryan Lintelman Really? I mean, you know, you see a little bit before, like, you know, people would have Mickey Mouse ears or, you know, they'd wear the cowboy hat or something like that. But people starting to have these fan conventions that they would go to, right, and dressing up in costumes and really making this a part of their personality. ([Time 0:17:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ed78a133-3bf9-42c9-89af-f7cb3656d954)) - **How The Smithsonian Asked For The Droids** - Curator Otto Meyer first requested R2-D2 from George Lucas in 1977 for a robotics exhibit and received a polite decline as Lucas was still making sequels. - David Noble later succeeded in 1983 when Lucasfilms offered both R2-D2 and C-3PO to the Smithsonian. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody In 1977, Star Wars mania was catching across the country. And it caught the attention of one curator in particular at the Smithsonian's National Museum of American History. Ryan Lintelman Curator Otto Meyer, who was our curator of mechanisms, wrote to George Lucas and said he was working on a new exhibit on automation and asked if he could have the droids. Lizzie Peabody That's right. It was actually the robotics curator who first set his sights on R2-D2. Ryan Lintelman says the robotics team was fighting an uphill battle. Ryan Lintelman You know, the curators of that collection are always trying to find ways to get people interested in industrial robots. Lizzie Peabody So as the kids say, Otto Meyer shot his shot, or blasted his laser. Ryan Lintelman And Lucas' secretary wrote back and said, we're still working on those films. This is 1977. Right, the first movie had just come out. Yeah, like actually... There were several others. Yeah, you may have heard it was popular. We'd like to do a sequel. So it didn't work out at that time. But it kind of planted the seed. Lizzie Peabody A few years later, after The Empire Strikes Back and The Return of the Jedi came out, Meyer's successor, David Noble, tried again. Ryan Lintelman He wrote, So far as I know, no further sequel is planned. This was what year? This was 1983. Lizzie Peabody Okay. Ryan Lintelman And so he wrote, you know, I would suggest the Smithsonian is a suitable retirement home for your mechanical stars, which was a very nice way of saying that. Lizzie Peabody And it worked. ([Time 0:19:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/aeb1b683-a17d-4a84-af86-1e0eae00c887)) - **Droids Were Working Costumes With Real Sand** - R2-D2 and C-3PO were built as multiple working costumes; Kenny Baker, 3 foot 8 inches tall, rode inside some R2 units and C-3PO was played by Anthony Daniels. - The museum's R2 even still had sand from Tunisia filmed Tatooine in its feet when acquired. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody Okay, this surprised me. I knew C-3PO, who after all is human-shaped, is played by an actual human, Anthony Daniels. But I did not realize that both droids are costumes. Wait, R2-D2 had a person? Yes. Kenny Baker. Actually, if you look down on the bottom, you can see here, he has boots. There's a little seat on the inside where he could sit. He could put his legs into the boots. Back in the exhibition space with Don Wallace, I take a closer look. Sure enough, nestled inside R2-D2's little robot legs are two white leather boots. I would never have noticed these. That's wild. And there's sort of like a little bucket seat with like a seatbelt system so that like to hold them in. Dawn says in any scene where R2-D2 has a third leg, where you see him kind of rolling along at a distance, he's a remote control robot with no actor inside. But when he's interacting with other characters... If you see that he's, like, jumping back and forth, and, like, he's opening up the doors on the side to, like, extend the probe and unlock the door to get inside, those are going to be where Kenny Baker is inside the costume. Actor Kenny Baker was a little person, 3 foot 8 inches tall. An R2-D2 is fashioned specifically for him. ([Time 0:21:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fed2247e-94d1-4e14-b784-8397ba620f0b)) - **Conserving Fragile Movie Costumes Is Whack a Mole** - Dawn Wallace describes conservation challenges: costume parts like C-3PO's rubber girdle have stiffened and will need overhaul, while R2's magnets and doors fail unpredictably. - Conservators keep small details like sand and repair broken magnets to preserve both function and personality. Transcript: Lizzie Peabody After all, costumes are really not built to last any longer than the filming of the movie, let alone decades. And when you look at them up close, you see a lot of things you don't see on screen. Dawn points to C-3PO's torso, where wires supposedly join his top and bottom half. You can see that it's a piece of rubber where it just has wires that are glued onto the surface and painted lines. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's an optical illusion. It's not actually... And it zips up on one of the sides. It's like a girdle that you would wear in between the two portions. Show me the zipper. This rubber girdle was once flexible. Now it is incredibly stiff and frozen, and it no longer has any movement to it. So we can't zip it up anymore. And someday in the not-so future, it will need a total overhaul before it crumbles away. For Dawn, this is what makes her job both endlessly interesting and endlessly challenging. Should we just sit here? Yeah. To give me a peek behind the scenes of the restoration process, Dawn takes me down to the conservation lab under the museum. It's a windowless room, spotless, like an extra-large operating room, but with fancy cameras and microscopes. We sit at her desk as she shows me some photos of the work she did on these two droids while getting them ready for display in the exhibition. So these are pictures of inside R2-D2. And I'll just have them large. So you can see this is a handlebar that he could have used to support himself and help move whenever, like, R2-D2 gets agitated and he kind of wiggles back and forth. Oh, I see. Oh, wow. Dawn says, working with these droids, you really get a sense of their personalities. Especially R2. See this magnet? Mm-hmm. This. At one point, the magnet on R2-D2's little side door broke, leaving his door propped open. I had to fix this one, and as soon as I did, one on the other door broke. The R2 costume had the same personality as the R2 character, finicky and strong-willed. He's just way too sassy. It would never all happen at once. It would happen one at a time, you'd fix it, and then something else would occur. Just like a whack-a kind of situation. ([Time 0:23:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/90f79279-1b30-4b3e-ad8a-8c4400ae4360)) - **Hope Is The Core Star Wars Message** - Ryan Lintelman highlights that Star Wars' constant theme is hope: even in apparent defeat, small seeds of resistance can grow into change. - That message of persistent hope helps new generations see possibilities for social and political transformation. Transcript: Ryan Lintelman Thing that's been in the Star Wars series from the very beginning is that there is always hope. No matter what the circumstances are, no matter how bleak things look, that the Empire has won this war, right? It's done. Everybody is subject now to this authoritarian empire. Still, there's always hope. There's always something that's out there that can help turn the tide. And even that smallest seed can grow into like a giant tree, right? As long as people believe in it and are willing to put everything on the line. ([Time 0:27:45](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e50a7f90-7569-4251-8c2b-988ab8821c1f))