Non-Tech Communities That Inform Our DevRel Activities  ## Metadata - Author: [[Community Pulse]] - Full Title: Non-Tech Communities That Inform Our DevRel Activities - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/0077e3ab-a061-4ce0-9d11-8bf290f9cf55 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **DIY Music Scene Shaped DevRel View** - PJ Hagerty describes growing up in punk and hardcore scenes and touring with DIY ethics. - He treats open source and DevRel as natural extensions of that “we help each other” mindset. Transcript: PJ Hagerty Um I mean, in my case, and I guess I'll start us off since I'm talking and everyone's letting me. Growing up, and a lot of people do know this about me, I've been a musician pretty much my whole life. I started playing drums when I was six, started guitar when I was seven, grew up playing in a lot of punk rock and hardcore bands. And at the time that I was growing up, that was a very interesting community, especially in New York State, not just in Buffalo, New York, where I was, but in different parts of New York State, there are these almost cells that were interchangeable. So if you were in a punk or a hardcore band, you could say, all right, listen, we're going to jump in a van and we're going to go to Syracuse because we know some guys in Syracuse that are thinking The same thing we are. Let's go do it. Or, you know, we'll head to Brooklyn because there's this awesome girls, hardcore band that like wants to play Buffalo. So we'll exchange shows. And it was that kind of attitude, that ethos of, of one part, do it yourself, DIY ethic. And one part we're in this together, so why don't we help each other out? And I've always looked at that as a major stepping stone, a major touch point for why I view tech communities the way that I do. Especially when we look at things like open source, where it is DIY, essentially. Like you find an itch that needs to be scratched, then you scratch it, then you say, everybody come scratch your itch. I want to share this with the world. And I think that for me, when I was starting to begin my DevRel career, I didn't really even see a difference between those two things. It wasn't apples and oranges, it was eggs and bacon. So I use that as a starting point. I think that's an interesting thing that I think a lot of times you're part of communities in your youth. ([Time 0:01:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cd66c69f-7040-4c7d-bfdf-2a9be1a32263)) - **DevRel Is Community Work, Not Reinvention** - Mary argues DevRel isn't new — it's community work for technical people. - You can reuse community principles rather than reinventing them for every tech subset. Transcript: Mary Thengvall Well, and I think that reinforces the idea that we've said for ages now, which is DevRel is just, quote unquote, just. But it's a community for technical folks. It's a community for developers. ([Time 0:08:31](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e242297c-b018-4391-b645-1190687bc2b7)) - **Early Social Media Meetups Built Local Networks** - Wesley Faulkner recalls early Austin social media meetups like tweetups and Twestival during Twitter's rise. - Those meetups connected him to peers and led to meaningful, ongoing local relationships. Transcript: Wesley Faulkner And it was like the emergence of social media, not as the Geocities or the Friendsters, but the dawn of where twitter started and the not and that's when things changed because uh there Are case studies and just the emergence of like it being used during the superbowl uh corporations even engaging and starting to sell things using social uh i was an engineer working At amd and i got on twitter and i just started talking about my day job of the the cool things and that was seen as revolutionary and got the attention we did tweet ups which were meetups From people with Twitter. I forgot about tweet-ups. Oh, wow. Yeah. Jason Hand We ran. Hey, listen, you have to give us a trigger warning when you do that. Sorry, was that super loud? Wesley Faulkner It was a little cringe. But we also did Tweetsgiving. We did Twestival. We did all of that stuff. We had a social media club. We also had social media breakfast. And then, of course, South by Southwest was in Austin. And so that is like the Petri dish of where my connection to people, connection to technology, and connection to movers and shakers, the people who were figuring this stuff out, those Were my peers. Those are the people that I could just like send the message to. ([Time 0:10:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/50a5ea55-e99a-4644-af6c-3b19a735371f)) - **Outsider Communities Can Be Deeply Welcoming** - PJ recounts the Juggalo community as unexpectedly welcoming despite outsider perceptions. - He notes their safety-focused norms and acceptance of all appearances and backgrounds. Transcript: PJ Hagerty I mean, that's the first thing. It's not just that they want to recruit people, that transactional thing that Wesley was talking about, but they want people to participate. That's the goal. Times um who used to be a part of he was a juggalo and for those of you who don't know what a juggalo is uh there was a i still is i don't even know rap group from detroit called the insane clown Posse but they would wear clown makeup and make horrible raps but because they never pretended to be anything they weren't they were like, hey, listen, we're white trash. We like rap. We like wrestling. We like orange Faygo soda. Cool. That's exactly who they were all of the time. And for that, people began to respect them. Most of the mainstream media made fun of them. Most of the government thought they were a gang because often when you're doing something and it doesn't fit into the mainstream, it becomes labeled a cult or a gang. Wesley Faulkner But they were a community. If Pokemon and Kiss had a baby. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. PJ Hagerty And some random mumble rapper that you find on the side of the road. But it was really an interesting thing. Someone did a documentary about it and he was like, I went here as a joke. And what I found was a welcoming environment where people try to keep each other safe. Yes, they're doing drugs. Yes, they're drinking. Yes, they're partying. Yes, they're kind of trashy. But they don't care who you are. You could be no shirt, low slung pants and Crocs. Or you could be wearing a three-piece suit and it does not matter to them. You're welcome here. ([Time 0:13:23](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4661b819-d506-44e3-8f25-aa41b3dbf504)) - **People Over Spectacle At Burning Man** - Mary Thengvall explains why she keeps returning to Burning Man: people and shared interactions. - She values the camp relationships more than art or spectacle at the event. Transcript: Mary Thengvall That's Burning Man for me, right? Like the outward appearance of Burning Man is drugs, orgies, rave kind of a deal. And like, that's not my scene. That's not why I go. Like I started going because of the artwork and I continue to go these days because of the people. And like, that was actually something I struggled with a lot this year was I didn't come away from the burn with like, oh, this was the amazing art that I saw, or this was the incredible Experience that I had. Like, and that it felt wrong. Like I had missed something somehow until I sat down and was talking to some of my campmates and my husband and kind of getting to this conclusion of like, no, like I had an amazing time. There are memories that I have from this year's burn that are in the top 10 from all eight years that I've gone, but it all has to do with the people and the interactions that I had and the Experiences shared with them. And some of that is like, you know, there were far too many of us crowded up on top of our art car for the main burn on Saturday night and like, just working around like, okay, cool. Someone's coming through to go shoot the fire great let's make space but like you know jokingly bump into people and like just that level of of comfort around the other people but that's Not necessarily something that I would think of oh Burning Man that's that's why I'm going but it boils down to the people and I think for all of us, like, why do you keep showing up for the, The bluegrass festivals? Why do you keep, you know, engaging with other bands? Why do you, why did you keep doing stuff with South by right? Like the events are cool. Sure. But more often than not, it's, Oh, well, this is where I get a chance to engage with those people. This is where I get a chance to reconnect with them. This is where I see people that I want to spend more time with because the environment has, and the expectations that have been set up around that environment have created a safe space That I can be myself and be with my friends. ([Time 0:15:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/361d6e05-16fb-4730-b245-28ec8d7990cf)) - **Celebrate Newcomers As Potential, Not Threats** - Wesley contrasts two community types: gatekeeping vs. curiosity-driven welcome. - He prefers communities that celebrate newcomers as potential contributors. Transcript: Wesley Faulkner And then the communities that I cherish and the one that I love the most is where they see each new person as a potential. Like, ooh, what can we learn from them? How can they add to our essence? How are we all going to, like, what is our life going to look like together? It's kind of the appeal, like when you're introducing a new person, they get celebrated for joining. There's curiosity there and it's curiosity on the part of where it's exchanging of like just learning from each other. And those communities are so endearing to me where you go to a new place, you walk up to a table and they're like, oh, come sit with us. Let's have a chat. Where'd you come from? Is this your first event? Those are the communities that I love. And those are the ones that I feel are so enriching. And I wish that they weren't the minority these days. I feel like those are very diminished or extremely niche. You're talking about more of the former communities where it's like you have to show your value. Those are ways of finding how to monetize you, how to get the most out of you. And then those corporations or those juggernauts are focused on growth at all costs, which means finding ways to get more people to be more valuable for them rather than the people that They serve. ([Time 0:23:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2c713942-dea1-45b3-a2c8-382cfa2b2e97)) - **Abundance Mindset Prevents Community Burnout** - Jason highlights abundance mindset vs. taker behavior as a community failure mode. - Communities falter when members take without contributing back. Transcript: Jason Hand Cause I think you just nailed it. Uh, Wesley like the success I see, one of the most common patterns is this like mentality, overall mentality, probably of an abundance mindset rather than, you know, coming in and people Are just like, well, what all this stuff's free. Like all these people will just help me. And then they just get into this mindset of, oh my gosh, like they take and they take and they get so excited and all these new resources and helpful people. And then they forget that now it's out of balance and they're not contributing to the community. And that's where I've seen things kind of go a little south as somebody has to say, hey, we love you. We welcome you. We celebrate you. But don't forget, this is a community. ([Time 0:25:23](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5c98910f-13cd-4df2-a730-c5ad1997f0f7)) - **Set Expectations — Then Be Flexible** - Mary advises set clear expectations but keep flexibility where it matters. - Allow program flexibility for edge cases while protecting non-negotiables like conduct. Transcript: Mary Thengvall Right. Well, and I think that's where it goes back to the expectation setting. And I think from a corporate standpoint, every person showing their value absolutely makes sense. I think for some personal communities, that makes sense as well, right? And plays into the like, are you going to contribute? Are you just here to take? But I think there's another level of that too, where value is, and I'm going to try and be very careful about how I say this, value is shown through whether or not you fit someone else's Ideals. And I think that's the types of communities and that can show up in religious communities that can show up in, uh, you know, country club types of communities, right? Like, are, are you meeting our expectations? And our expectations might be you dress in a certain way at all times, right? Or it could be you don't say these words or talk about these topics or anything like that. And I think communities like that I've found are not only looking to make sure that someone continues to fit, but their mentality instead of being welcoming is to encourage that exclusivity. And they might be welcoming in doing or appear to be welcoming in doing that in the sense of, oh, we have someone new. You should come chat with us and see how you fit in. ([Time 0:26:11](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fece8873-bcac-4b2d-a844-004b67c65f94)) - **Prioritize Communication, Expectation, Empathy** - Jason recommends prioritizing clear communication, realistic expectations, and empathy. - He also urges mentoring to nudge members toward contributing their best. Transcript: Jason Hand I can go next. And although I'm struggling to get this down to just one thing, so I'm going to kind of merge some stuff. It's not easy. I have so many thoughts and feels on this subject, but what it boils down to for sure, I think any good community is about communication, really, because it's relationships. And I think good communities, the ones I like to be a part of, we are effective because we, we, we communicate really well with each other, not just like by the tool choices that we make And how, you know, how we actually logistically talk to each other, but like in the way we talk to each other, there's a lot you can like figure out about people in just the way that they, Just the way they treat other people, you know, in their communication. So I think that's really important. And, and, and related to that, you know, being extremely realistic with expectations and being empathetic amongst members of your community, everybody's got different lives. Everybody's got different things going on and, and, you know, priorities. And it's not exactly, even though they're really, a lot of things are in alignment with you, they're still different people. And, understanding expectations where you are versus reality, I think is super important. And then the last thing I'll say is, yes, we do have to expect the best in people, but we also have to encourage and nudge people to be their best. That's sort of maybe just a byproduct of age. You get to a point where it's like, these things just feel like they're working like clockwork, but you also start catching yourself being the mentor. Who's like showing somebody else how to do this, you know, which I think is exactly what we're doing here. So anyway, expect and encourage people to be their best. ([Time 0:34:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7681fb85-e298-447f-be67-ad32cfd3462f)) - **Build Spaces For Every Skill And Role** - PJ concludes: make room for every skill level and invite participation. - He urges communities to evolve together and welcome contributors in any role. Transcript: PJ Hagerty This is probably a good place to wrap it up. I think that it's been a good episode and we've seen a lot. I am going to circle back to an idea of community from a song that I thoroughly enjoy by a gentleman called Frank Turner, since we did mention music-related topics so heavily in this episode. But Frank Turner has a great song called The Ballad of Me and My Friends. And one of the lines that I think really strikes how music communities work is, you know, the musicians who lack the friends to form a band are singer-songwriters. The rest of us are DJs or official club photographers. And I think that really underscores that, you know what, there's a place for you, no matter your talent level, no matter who you are. If you want to participate, there's a place for you. ([Time 0:37:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7fba3cca-bea8-4ab0-a61d-e179b2c69ecc))