Peter Thiel is Bankrupt! (Theologically) 🔗 **Source:** [Peter Thiel is Bankrupt! (Theologically)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EVQLvnAj8) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: > - #PeterThiel > - #DataOverDogma > - #BiblicalHermeneutics > - #Antichrist > - #Acts17 > - #AIEthics > - #Transhumanism > - #StarOfDavid > - #ConspiracyTheories > - #TheologyAndCulture > Author: Dan McClellan & Dan Beecher > Source: Data Over Dogma podcast — “Peter Thiel is Bankrupt! (Theologically)” > Reference: YouTube (episode audio): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EVQLvnAj8 > date created: 2025-10-19 19:43 > > # Title: Peter Thiel, Twisted Scripture, and Symbol Myths — A Critical Note > <!-- deep-read:sections start --> ## 🧭 Table of Contents: - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#-notes) - [🧐 Theological Framework Analysis](#-theological-framework-analysis) - [🏛️ Historical and Cultural Context](#-historical-and-cultural-context) - [📜 Scriptural References and Interpretation](#-scriptural-references-and-interpretation) - [⚖️ Logical and Rhetorical Analysis](#-logical-and-rhetorical-analysis) - [💡 Practical Theology and Ethics](#-practical-theology-and-ethics) - [📝 Comparative Analysis](#-comparative-analysis) - [🌍 Global and Ecumenical Perspectives](#-global-and-ecumenical-perspectives) - [🔄 Change Over Time](#-change-over-time) - [🎯 Author's Goals and Audience](#-authors-goals-and-audience) - [📖 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, Belonging) Assessment](#-deib-diversity-equity-inclusion-belonging-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🏁 Action Items (Alignment Prompt for Courtney)](#-action-items-alignment-prompt-for-courtney) - [🔍 SEO Evaluation](#-seo-evaluation) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) --- ## 📝 Summary: - 🔹 **Thesis:** The hosts critique how Peter Thiel purportedly uses apocalyptic themes, “Antichrist” language, and select scriptures to sanction tech-driven politics and deregulation. ▫️ They argue this approach conflicts with New Testament teachings on wealth and communal ethics. - 🔹 **Secondary thread:** They dismantle the social-media claim that the **Star of David** = the **“star of Remphan”** (Acts 7:43), calling it a mistranslation-fueled, antisemitic conspiracy. - 🔹 **Method:** Pop-academically styled exegesis, humor, and historical-linguistic notes (1 Thess 5:3; Dan 12:4; Amos 5:26; Acts 7:43). - 🔹 **Tone:** Irreverent, witty, skeptical, and pedagogy-forward; strong bias for historical-critical method and against culture-war proof-texting. --- ## 📖 Main Content: - 🔹 **Peter Thiel & ACT 17 (as described by hosts):** ▫️ Thiel is framed as a high-profile voice tying faith to Silicon Valley culture via “ACT 17” branding. ▫️ Hosts say his recent talks center on an **Antichrist** motif, transhumanism, and warnings about “one world government.” ▫️ They argue he opposes tech regulation while backing tech with state/military applications, calling this **cognitive dissonance**. - 🔹 **Antichrist language:** ▫️ In the Bible, *antichrist* occurs in 1–2 John, largely adjectival (“opposed to Christ”), not a single end-times villain. ▫️ The popular synthesis (Antichrist + Beast + “man of lawlessness”) is a later **patchwork**. - 🔹 **“Peace and safety” (1 Thess 5:3):** ▫️ Hosts claim Thiel frames “peace and safety” as an Antichrist slogan. ▫️ They counter Paul’s point is surprise/urgency, not a prophecy about a sinister slogan. ▫️ Link: 1 Thess 5:1–3 — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A1-3&version=NRSVUE - 🔹 **Daniel 12:4 — knowledge vs. evil increasing:** ▫️ KJV: “knowledge shall be increased.” NRSVUE/LXX tradition may render “evil/unrighteousness shall increase.” ▫️ Hosts use this variant to question techno-triumphalist proof-texts. ▫️ Links: Dan 12:4 (KJV) — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A4&version=KJV | NRSVUE — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A4&version=NRSVUE - 🔹 **Wealth & Jesus traditions:** ▫️ Repeated emphasis on renunciation and community support (Rich Young Ruler; Lk 12; Acts 4). ▫️ Tension noted between **billionaire piety** and **synoptic ethics**. ▫️ Links: Luke 12 — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke+12&version=NRSVUE ; Acts 4 — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+4%3A32-37&version=NRSVUE - 🔹 **Star of David myth-busting:** ▫️ **Acts 7:43** quotes **Amos 5:26** via Greek; names shift (Sikkuth/Kiyyun → “tent of Moloch”/“Remphan”). ▫️ The hexagram is a **common geometric motif** with varied uses; only much later does it become emblematic of Judaism/Zionism. ▫️ The claim “Star of David = occult ‘Remphan’ sigil” is historically and linguistically sloppy. ▫️ Links: Acts 7:43 — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+7%3A43&version=NRSVUE ; Amos 5:26 — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Amos+5%3A26&version=NRSVUE ### 🗒️ Notes - 🔹 **Framing:** ▫️ Hosts position themselves as combating religious misinformation with academic tools. - 🔹 **Thiel critique:** ▫️ Alleged misuse of “Antichrist” tropes; selective reading of commandments (esp. “do not covet”). ▫️ Claimed inconsistency: anti-regulation stance vs. investment in state-adjacent tech. - 🔹 **Scripture handling:** ▫️ Emphasis on original languages, genre, intertextual nuance. ▫️ Pushback against **proof-texting** and eschatological collage. - 🔹 **Symbolism segment:** ▫️ Hexagram’s broad historical footprint distinguished from modern Jewish identity marking. ▫️ Star-of-Remphan myth linked to **antisemitic** conspiracy patterns. --- ### 🧐 **Theological Framework Analysis** - 🔹 **Likely Tradition of the Hosts:** ▫️ **Historical-critical / Mainline-friendly** posture; skeptical of culture-war eschatology; ethics-forward readings. - 🔹 **References & Figures:** ▫️ No reliance on classical systematics (Augustine/Calvin) or modern Charismatic figures; method over magisterium. - 🔹 **Core Issues:** ▫️ **Soteriology/Ethics:** Kingdom ethics prioritize the poor; wealth is spiritually perilous. ▫️ **Eschatology:** Anti-sensational; resists Antichrist-as-master-plot narrative. - 🔹 **Denominational Markers:** ▫️ Language fits **progressive Protestant** sensibilities (scripture-in-context, social ethics). - 🔹 **Compared to Courtney’s background:** ▫️ **Aligns** with United Methodist/UCC-progressive ethics, LGBTQIA+ inclusion, social justice. ▫️ **Contrasts** with Charismatic/NAR-style seven-mountains language and end-times speculation. --- ### 🏛️ **Historical and Cultural Context** - 🔹 **Influences Named:** ▫️ Modern tech capitalism, deregulation debates, and apocalyptic rhetoric in U.S. politics. - 🔹 **Contemporary Issues:** ▫️ AI weaponization, surveillance capitalism, Christian nationalism, antisemitic conspiracies. - 🔹 **Nostalgia vs. Change:** ▫️ Hosts resist “golden age” fantasies; push current ethical scrutiny. - 🔹 **Cultural Moment:** ▫️ Skepticism toward tech-savior narratives; attention to power asymmetries. --- ### 📜 **Scriptural References and Interpretation** - 🔹 **Consistency:** ▫️ The show models **contextual** reading over cherry-picking. - 🔹 **Genre Emphasis:** ▫️ Wisdom/prophetic warnings on wealth; Pauline pastoral urgency; apocalyptic tempered by context. - 🔹 **Contentious Texts:** ▫️ Antichrist vocabulary (1–2 John); eschatology in 1 Thess; variant in Dan 12:4. - 🔹 **Canon Balance:** ▫️ Significant use of **Synoptics** and **Acts** for wealth/communal ethics. --- ### ⚖️ **Logical and Rhetorical Analysis** - 🔹 **Strengths:** ▫️ **Appeal to evidence:** Languages, textual variants, historical usage of symbols. ▫️ **Causal clarity:** Wealth → ethical hazards → theological tension. ▫️ **Counterargument handling:** They anticipate “Antichrist slogan” claims and rebut from text. - 🔹 **Potential Weaknesses:** ▫️ **Ad hominem risk:** Humor aimed at a public figure can blur critique of ideas vs. person. ▫️ **Hasty generalization risk:** Tech sector motives painted broadly; specify with data when possible. --- ### 💡 **Practical Theology and Ethics** - 🔹 **Takeaway:** ▫️ Prioritize **communal care**, **economic justice**, and **truthful scripture use** over culture-war theatrics. - 🔹 **Action Frames:** ▫️ Church teaching on wealth/AI ethics; resist conspiratorial hermeneutics; center marginalized groups. --- ### 📝 **Comparative Analysis** - 🔹 **Against Charismatic/NAR currents:** ▫️ The episode resists **seven mountains** dominion framing and end-times code-breaking. - 🔹 **With Mainline/UCC values:** ▫️ Emphasis on social justice, intellectual honesty, and inclusive ethics. --- ### 🌍 **Global and Ecumenical Perspectives** - 🔹 **Scope:** ▫️ Mostly Western; space remains to integrate African/Asian/Latin American theologies on wealth, tech, and empire. --- ### 🔄 **Change Over Time** - 🔹 **Evolving Theology:** ▫️ The hosts represent a wider shift from speculative eschatology to **ethics-first** readings in public scholarship. --- ### 🎯 **Author's Goals and Audience** - 🔹 **Audience:** ▫️ Curious laypeople, deconstructing Christians, and religion-and-tech observers. - 🔹 **Purpose:** ▫️ Educate and debunk with humor; model accessible academic method. --- ## 📖 References: - 🎧 Data Over Dogma — episode video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EVQLvnAj8 - 📖 1 Thess 5:1–3 (NRSVUE): https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Thessalonians+5%3A1-3&version=NRSVUE - 📖 Daniel 12:4 (KJV & NRSVUE): ▫️ KJV — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A4&version=KJV ▫️ NRSVUE — https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel+12%3A4&version=NRSVUE - 📖 Acts 7:43 (NRSVUE): https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+7%3A43&version=NRSVUE - 📖 Amos 5:26 (NRSVUE): https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Amos+5%3A26&version=NRSVUE --- ## 🗣️ Paraphrase: - 🔹 **Antichrist Patchwork:** ▫️ The Bible’s “antichrist” isn’t a single prophesied tyrant. Later readers stitched together several figures to make one villain. - 🔹 **“Peace and Safety” Clarified:** ▫️ Paul warns that the Day arrives unexpectedly; the phrase isn’t branding for a sinister regime. - 🔹 **Daniel’s Variant:** ▫️ Depending on textual tradition, Daniel 12:4 may predict rising **evil**, not growing **knowledge**, so tech boosterism doesn’t get a free verse. - 🔹 **Hexagram Myth:** ▫️ The Star of David wasn’t an ancient occult badge; the hexagram is a widespread geometric form that later became a Jewish emblem. --- ## 📰 Newsletter: - 🔹 **TL;DR:** Two Dans use wit and textual chops to call out flimsy end-times talk and bad symbol takes. - 🔹 **Bias Watch:** Pro–historical-critical method; skeptical of billionaire-friendly theologies and conspiracy bait. - 🔹 **Why it matters:** When scripture becomes a policy cudgel, the poor usually pay the bill. Read the text, mind the context, and check your symbols. - 🔹 **Links:** Episode — https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EVQLvnAj8 ; Key texts — 1 Thess 5:3; Dan 12:4; Amos 5:26; Acts 7:43 (see References). --- ## 🧪 Hypotheses: - 🔹 H1: **Proof-texting correlates** with higher acceptance of conspiratorial political claims among lay audiences. - 🔹 H2: **Wealth-friendly theologies** predict lower congregational support for economic-justice initiatives. - 🔹 H3: **Symbol-myth exposure** increases antisemitic attitudes unless countered by corrective education. - 🔹 H4: **Tech-savior narratives** reduce support for regulation despite acknowledged AI risk. ### 📊 Methodology: - 🔹 **Designs:** ▫️ Mixed-methods surveys + experiments; pre/post corrections; content analysis of sermons/podcasts. - 🔹 **Data Sources:** ▫️ Sermon archives, YouTube transcripts, church policy statements, survey panels (Pew-style), experimental vignettes. - 🔹 **Analysis:** ▫️ Logistic/ordinal regression; SEM for mediation (proof-texting → beliefs → policy support); topic modeling for transcript corpora. ### ❓ Questions: - 🔹 How do churches teach eschatology without fueling political panic? - 🔹 Which corrections best defuse symbol-myth misinformation? - 🔹 What framing shifts wealthy-donor theology toward community ethics? ### 🔮 Future Research: - 🔹 Global South readings of wealth/tech; rabbinic engagements with symbol myths; AI ethics curricula in seminaries. ### 💡 Implications: - 🔹 **Policy:** Better media literacy in faith communities. - 🔹 **Practice:** Pastoral training on economic texts; anti-conspiracy catechesis. - 🔹 **Scholarship:** Stronger bridges between biblical studies and tech ethics. --- ## 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment: - 🔹 **Visual (Spatial):** ▫️ Present: conversational audio; minimal visuals. ▫️ Improve: add timelines, verse trees, symbol history infographics. - 🔹 **Aural (Auditory):** ▫️ Present: podcast format excels. ▫️ Improve: chaptered audio, glossary mini-clips. - 🔹 **Verbal (Linguistic):** ▫️ Present: analogies and plain-language exegesis. ▫️ Improve: linked reading lists and term definitions. - 🔹 **Physical (Kinesthetic):** ▫️ Present: none. ▫️ Improve: small-group exercises (e.g., annotate a passage; label symbol timelines). - 🔹 **Logical (Mathematical):** ▫️ Present: cause-effect chains; limited formal structure. ▫️ Improve: flowcharts for argument maps; tables for textual variants. - 🔹 **Social (Interpersonal):** ▫️ Present: dialogic hosting. ▫️ Improve: guided discussion questions and community forum prompts. - 🔹 **Solitary (Intrapersonal):** ▫️ Present: implicit reflection prompts. ▫️ Improve: journaling questions on wealth/ethics. - 🔹 **Naturalistic:** ▫️ Present: none. ▫️ Improve: eco-ethics applications of wealth texts; nature analogies in teaching. --- ## 📊 Accessibility Assessment: - 🔹 **Screen Reader:** ▫️ Improve with full transcript headings, speaker tags, alt-text for any posted visuals. - 🔹 **Keyboard Navigation:** ▫️ Provide transcript with jump links; focus-visible controls for audio player. - 🔹 **Contrast & Readability:** ▫️ High-contrast web post; large, resizable fonts. - 🔹 **Text Resizing:** ▫️ Ensure responsive layout; avoid text baked into images. --- ## 🌍 DEIB (Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, Belonging) Assessment: - 🔹 **Cultural Relevance:** ▫️ Expand beyond U.S.-centric debates; include Jewish scholarly voices when treating symbol claims. - 🔹 **Inclusive Language:** ▫️ Largely accessible; continue defining technical terms (e.g., “LXX,” “Masoretic”). - 🔹 **Neurodiversity Support:** ▫️ Add headings, summaries, and bullet structures to the published transcript. - 🔹 **Representation:** ▫️ Cite diverse theologians and historians; include Jewish sources explicitly. - 🔹 **Psychological Safety:** ▫️ Content warns against antisemitism; add explicit content notes when discussing hate myths. --- ## ✅ Logical Validity: - 🔹 **Sound Deduction (Scriptural scope):** ▫️ *Where:* Antichrist term use in 1–2 John. ▫️ *Why strong:* Keeps claims anchored to textual domain; blocks scope creep. ▫️ *Enhance:* Provide brief lexical entry and citations to standard commentaries. - 🔹 **Strong Induction (Wealth ethics):** ▫️ *Where:* Multiple Gospel/Acts passages on wealth → ethical stance. ▫️ *Why strong:* Converging passages support general principle. ▫️ *Enhance:* Add Paul/James corroboration (e.g., Jas 5). - 🔹 **Causal Reasoning (Regulation vs. risk):** ▫️ *Where:* Unregulated AI + surveillance → social danger. ▫️ *Why strong:* Aligns with well-documented harms. ▫️ *Enhance:* Provide concrete cases/data in show notes. - 🔹 **Counterarguments (Peace & safety):** ▫️ *Where:* Rebutting “Antichrist slogan” reading of 1 Thess 5:3. ▫️ *Why strong:* Uses immediate context to correct misuse. ▫️ *Enhance:* Quote 1 Thess 5:1–6 in full for clarity. **Fallacies flagged (risk/occasional):** - 🔹 **Ad Hominem (tone risk):** ▫️ *Where:* Jokes about a public figure’s motives. ▫️ *Why weakens:* Shifts attention from arguments to personality. ▫️ *Fix:* Keep satire, but anchor every critique in explicit evidence. - 🔹 **Hasty Generalization (tech culture):** ▫️ *Where:* Broad claims about “Silicon Valley” ethics. ▫️ *Why weakens:* Overgeneralizes a diverse sector. ▫️ *Fix:* Name specific companies/policies with citations. --- ## ✅ Action Items (Alignment Prompt for Courtney): - 🔹 **Use this prompt for future articles:** > “Analyze how this piece aligns or contrasts with my journey (United Methodist → Charismatic influences: MorningStar/Bethel; exposure to five-fold, seven mountains, spiritual fathers; now UCC-progressive). > 1) Map the author’s theology vs. Rick Joyner, Bill Johnson, Sam Soleyn, Harold Eberle. > 2) Identify stances on charismatic theology, seven mountains, eschatology, and spiritual authority; show convergence/divergence with my past/present beliefs. > 3) Evaluate engagement with social justice, LGBTQIA+ inclusion, and progressive Christianity (UCC lens). > 4) Note any signs of deconstruction/evolving faith and how transitions are framed. > 5) Recommend pathways for inclusive, affirming practice and sustainable community support.” --- ### 🔍 SEO Evaluation: - 🔹 **Keywords:** ▫️ Present: “Peter Thiel theology,” “Antichrist,” “Star of David myth.” ▫️ Improve: Add long-tails like “1 Thessalonians 5:3 misinterpretation,” “Daniel 12:4 textual variant,” “Remphan conspiracy debunked.” - 🔹 **Meta Description (suggested):** ▫️ “Data Over Dogma unpacks Antichrist proof-texts and Star of David myths with humor and scholarship.” (~147 chars) - 🔹 **Title Tag (suggested):** ▫️ “Peter Thiel & Twisted Scripture: Antichrist Claims, Star of David Myths” (~72 chars; trim if needed) - 🔹 **Headers:** ▫️ Use H2/H3 with keyword variants (e.g., “Antichrist in 1–2 John,” “Daniel 12:4: Knowledge or Evil?”). - 🔹 **Length:** ▫️ Aim 1,500–2,200 words for the post version. - 🔹 **Links:** ▫️ Internal: Prior posts on eschatology/AI ethics. ▫️ External: Bible texts, academic articles, Jewish studies resources. - 🔹 **URL:** ▫️ `/peter-thiel-theology-antichrist-star-of-david-myths` - 🔹 **Images:** ▫️ Alt text like “Hexagram timeline diagram explaining symbol history.” - 🔹 **Mobile/Page Speed:** ▫️ Compress audio embeds; lazy-load transcripts. - 🔹 **Engagement:** ▫️ Add “Try this:” callouts and discussion prompts. - 🔹 **Schema:** ▫️ `Article` + `PodcastEpisode` schema; optional FAQ for myth debunks. - 🔹 **Social:** ▫️ Open Graph/Twitter Cards with concise teaser and episode art. --- ## 🎯 Conclusion: - 🔹 The episode champions **contextual reading** over culture-war proof-texting. - 🔹 It spotlights the tension between **immense wealth** and **New Testament** ethics. - 🔹 Finally, it corrects **symbol myths** that fuel **antisemitism**, urging historically grounded, community-affirming faith. --- Short answer: only a cursory, branding-style nod. The hosts note Thiel’s group “ACT 17” backronyms to “Acknowledging Christ in Technology and Society” and gestures toward Acts 17 (Paul engaging philosophers at the Areopagus). But after rereading the chapter, they say it “doesn’t seem to be a mission statement,” summarizing it as Paul bouncing city to city and debating in Athens/Mars Hill. In their words: “I went and read the entire chapter of Act 17 to see… what their mission is… Not a lot there… it doesn’t seem to be a mission statement.” So aside from the symbolic vibe of “engaging culture” like Paul in Athens, the podcast finds no substantive, textual linkage. <!-- deep-read:sections end --> ## 📺 Video  --- # 📄 Full Transcript *Auto-generated from YouTube captions · timestamps roughly every 30 seconds · [watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04EVQLvnAj8)* **[00:01]** You have a lot of folks who are like, "Ah, the Jesus fish is just a sideways Volvo with with with the tail." >> With a tail, sure, sure. Yeah, that's a uh uh >> And so it's all that this is all about worship of the divine feminine and and the holy fish tail. Yeah. Hey everybody, I'm Dan McClellan. And I'm Dan Beecher. You're listening to the Data Over Dogma podcast where we increase public access **[00:31]** to the academic study of the Bible and religion and we combat the spread of misinformation about the same. How are things, Dan? We're going after a billionaire tonight. I'm I'm stoked. Nice. >> It's Yeah, it's nothing bad can happen to you if you uh if you if you take down a billionaire on your show, right? There's >> Not in this economy. No. With a man in the White House? No. Don't think so. So, okay, the first thing we're doing **[01:02]** we're we're going to start off with a twisted scripture and uh and we're going to go after Peter Thiel. Uh and that's pretty exciting. That's that's going to be a lot of fun. Uh I don't think he's going to make us he's I I don't think he he's going to use his kingmaker status on us anytime soon. And then Don't think that was in the cards to begin with, but yes, what How dare you? I think I had a shot. I think I had a No. Uh and then we're going to look uh we're we're going to do a taking issue **[01:33]** uh about a a uh a little bit of symbolism, a little bit of uh a star. The Magen David, yes, the Star of David and and uh a rather ridiculous conspiracy theory that I've been seeing popping up around social media of late. So, yes. Uh all right, so let's just dive in with some twisted scripture. And as we said uh **[02:03]** this isn't one scripture that's being twisted. Uh I feel like >> It's basically all scripture is being twisted, but there there are a couple that have been called out uh specifically. Yeah, Peter Thiel, if you don't know is a billionaire. He's one of the co-founders of uh of uh PayPal. There's a very very dorky picture of him and a pre-all of the surgeries uh Elon **[02:34]** Musk floating around that you probably should look up cuz woof, how did we give those two so much power? But they they have a lot of it and Thiel has become a very uh prominent voice uh in Christian circles uh and he's he's started an organization called Acts 17 which Acts is a in in his in this it's a **[03:05]** it's an acronym or a backronym is what they call it for because he you know he took the thing and then went backwards with it, but it it's Oh, I have it here somewhere. I don't know what it is. It stands for acknowledging Christ in technology and society. Um and you know, I went and read the entire chapter of Acts 17 to see like what they're on about or if it's if it illuminates sort of what their mission **[03:35]** is really. Not a lot there. No, it's like it's basically Paul going bouncing around from city to city. You know, he starts out in in Thessalonica. Yeah, the uproar at Thessalonica. I've been to Thessaloniki. Yeah. >> Love lovely area, lovely port. Yeah. City. It's a it's one of the bigger cities of of Greece now, isn't it? >> it is. Yeah, and but they and they've got their their ruins. They've got some of that going on too. **[04:07]** I was surprised to see around the corner from my hotel a TGI Fridays. Sure. Uh when I visited there went in there was a there was a European League basketball game on TV and yeah, it was it was a surreal experience. >> There you go. But uh yeah, the lovely area, love love Thessaloniki, love Greece, but um yeah, there's the uproar Paul and Silas uh passing through. Uh we got the they're going to Beroea. Yeah. Um Oh **[04:38]** man, and then Paul gets to Athens. >> Yeah. And there's all the what have you. All the what have you? Yeah, go That's where he's quoting some Greek poets. Since we are God's offspring all that kind of stuff. Yeah, but yeah, that doesn't seem to be a mission statement. No. I think what you were wondering. Uh it does point at a little bit of like end time stuff and we're going to get to Peter Thiel and his uh **[05:10]** his eschatology But uh but it doesn't really it's not you know it has some of that you know gods aren't made of gold or or silver or stone stuff and it and it's got some stuff that feels like uh you know, worry you know, repent uh type stuff. But Well, here's here a couple of passages. I'll I'll read these real quick and let me know if if if we're looking at Thiel and what he's **[05:40]** doing through the lens of Acts 17, what is this saying? Right. >> Um I'm in verse 18. Also some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers debated with him. Some said, "What does this pretentious babbler want to say?" Others said, "He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign deities." This was because he was telling the good news about Jesus and the resurrection. So, they took him and brought him to the Areopagus. Uh that's Mars Hill. That's the the stone outcropping that is uh just west of um **[06:10]** uh the Acropolis. Okay. >> And asked him, "May we know what this new teaching is that you are presenting? It sounds rather strange to us, so we would like to know what it means." Now, so I wonder if if the idea is that they're they're they're proclaimers of this new uh philosophy that's everybody wants to know about. Yeah, I and yeah, it's it you know, it's basically this he and he's he's like, "Hey, let me tell you **[06:41]** about Jesus." And then and that's kind of it. But >> Um we do have an actual manifesto on the website of uh for the Acts 17 Collective. Yes, that's true. Yeah, and I'll I'll just read the the beginning of this just so we can see how this casts any illumination on what this chapter has to do with anything at all. Uh a manifesto for the curious, the creators, and the culture shapers. As humans we are all made to worship and **[07:12]** will worship something if we don't worship God. Uh not true, but >> so much. I hear that Everybody worships something, no. As an as an atheist out in the world uh you know, I won't say prominent, but as one that is called a public atheist Public Okay. I get that all the time. Well, what do you what do you worship then? Yeah. Well, I nothing? Am I allowed to just I don't think I worship anything. I'm I'm just out here living a life. I don't know what you're talking about. And if **[07:43]** you've decided you want everyone to be worshipping something and then you just redefine worship so that it becomes something that everyone does Right. >> you're kind of you're kind of giving away the store there. Yeah, yeah. Uh so, he continues, "What are you putting your faith in? What are you worshipping?" Um I don't know about y'all, but we put our faith in blast hard cheese. That's that is a deep cut. Not too deep a cut. I mean, that's one of the most popular Mystery Science Theater 3000 **[08:15]** compilations out there. Uh in a world where we're always building startups, audiences, reputations, it's easy to forget to ask what we're building toward. Fame, power, money, success, these things promise fulfillment, but often leave us wanting more. We believe there's something deeper worth exploring. Not just for your work, but for your soul. Not just for Sundays, but for your every day. Not just to fill you, but for you to find wholeness. Great. All of that is fine and **[08:45]** platitudin platitudininalistic. >> Platitudinous. Yes. It's to the max, man. >> Platitudiny. It's a platypus is what it is. Um Perry the platypus? But the thing about it is that underneath that and this and one of the things that they're really going after is trying to capture uh people in Silicon Valley. Yes. Which is notoriously **[09:15]** uh or or or at least has a reputation for being a little hostile to to faith. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um but I but they seem to be making good ground. And sort of the leading the charge uh one of the banner bearers or perhaps the prophet of this movement is Peter Thiel. So, let's talk a bit about him and sort of where what what he has been saying cuz he is also quite um **[09:46]** he can be very tight-lipped. He can be very He plays his cards pretty close to the chest, but he's starting to sort of come out of his shell. This is the guy by the way that like that we have to thank for J.D. Vance. Like he backed J.D. Vance when for no good reason. What What is Vance doing that this guy is other than Yeah. I did I It's all This is all There are pieces that are missing. Let's just put it that way. >> So, I'm I'm just I'm just perusing his **[10:17]** Wikipedia entry, which is voluminous. Um I just read this I just stopped on a sentence. "Teal confirmed that he had funded Hulk Hogan." So. >> that mean? Okay. Gawker had previously outed Teal as gay. And then when the Bollea v. Gawker lawsuit ended up with Gawker losing the case, Teal confirmed that he had funded Hulk Hogan. So, it it's talking about all his his right-wing and **[10:48]** conservative libertarian um uh investments. Right. Yeah, I mean, this is one of those guys who who talks about free speech all the time, but then as is this case here, to get revenge on a on publication that outed him as gay, he he he funded a a lawsuit that Hulk Hogan could not himself have come close to affording and just >> Yeah. beat the smack out of this other out of this **[11:19]** this group. Yeah. >> Um all right. Let's get to Teal's apocalypse because he has been starting he has started to talk about And here's the thing. I don't doubt the sincerity of his belief. Yeah. Uh That's not we're not in the business at the Data Over Dogma podcast of casting judgment on the sincerity of anybody's religious beliefs. >> No. That is true. So, so what he has been talking about **[11:50]** is he he's been talking about the Antichrist Yes. >> or an Antichrist, an entity that is Antichrist, and he's not particularly clear on what or or who that might be. Um He's doing a four-part lecture series on the Antichrist. And from what I have heard, nobody is quite sure what he's talking about. >> Yes. Yeah, it seems like it might be the one-world government might be the **[12:22]** Antichrist or whatever. He definitely believes that a one-world government is a bad thing and it's coming. And I like I first heard about this I I was telling you before we hit record, I started getting a flood of requests to respond to this interview that he did when I was in Italy with my family and was like, "I can't do this right now, man. I don't know what this dude is talking about, but I can't do this." And it was an interview where he's talking about transhumanism and and then goes into Antichrist stuff and the **[12:55]** he appealed to a scripture. This is what stuck out from me. He he said that the Antichrist's slogan will be peace and safety. Yes. >> And I was like, "That is nowhere in the Bible, but I need to stop and look this up and what on earth is he talking about?" And he's talking about 1 Thessalonians 5, I think that 5:3. And it to begin, the word Antichrist occurs, I think, four total times in all of the Bible, **[13:27]** four or five total times in all of the Bible. All of them in 1 John or 2 John. Oh, okay. And they are used to describe anyone who is opposed to Christ. It is a It is mainly an adjective. That person is Antichrist or you know, anti-Christian. There's one use that could suggest that it is referring to a specific individual. Okay. >> But or or certain individuals. However, that use suggests that they're already **[13:57]** there. They have arrived >> Right. when the text was written that is now in the New Testament. So, it's not something that is off in the future. But what people have done and you know, because of the presupposition of univocality, they're like, "Well, this must be talked about elsewhere. Let's go into Revelation. Let's look for the big baddie and we're going to say that's the Antichrist. Let's go into Paul. Let's look at the man of lawlessness. We're going to say that's the Antichrist." And so, you basically cobble together from **[14:30]** the scattered Lego pieces from these different uh uh I don't know what they call them, engineers, different sets and you're going to try to cobble together this picture of what this entity is going to be. And so, he appeals appeals to 1 Thessalonians 5:3. And it's talking about "Now, concerning the times and the seasons, brothers and sisters, you do not need to have anything written to you, for you yourselves know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. When they say, "There is peace and **[15:01]** security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and there will be no escape." Okay. >> So, so it seems that he is interpreting this prophecy about the second coming that says it will happen when they say there is peace and security, which basically the rhetorical point there is when they least expect it. >> Right. That's when what you know, the son of man's going to be like, "Boo, got you." **[15:32]** That's when all this is going to go down. And now we've taken that and tergiversated it and and you've heard me use a lot of $2 words on this show. This is a $15 word. >> Yeah, I was Yeah, I was I was I was going to be very impressed if that's an actual word. It is an actual word and what's fu The only reason I know this word and use this word is because I learned it on my mission in Spanish. >> Oh. And came back and I was like, "There's this word. Does it exist in English?" And I looked it up and I was like, "Sweet, it exists in English. I'm **[16:03]** using it." And but But anyway, it basically means to twist something into something else to serve your own purposes. >> Right. >> To misrepresent. Because in no sense whatsoever is this saying the slogan of the Antichrist Right. >> is peace and security. But But it sounds like he's trying to say, "Hey, anybody who's telling you we're going to fix the world's problems or at least we're going to try to fix the world's problems. We're going to come together and find a solution to all **[16:35]** these social ills." He's wagging his finger saying that's the Antichrist. Yes. Or at least that's some kind of precursor or catalyst for the Antichrist. In other words, he's saying, "Don't do that. Don't try to fix the world's problems. Don't try to unify uh this whole you mentioned the one-world government. It sounds like one of those idiotic conspiracy theories. The globalists >> Right. Yeah, yeah. >> are coming. Um But that was the first That was the only scripture I heard in the little bit of **[17:06]** that interview that that people kept tagging me in. And I was like, "Well, this is already way off the rails." So, >> And it gets more and more It gets more off the rails as the further he goes. And the the thing that that gets really weird and that I I have Believe me, I have tried to parse this out. I believe that this is just a cognitive dissonance that lives in his brain. Uh I believe that he has just made peace with something that directly contradicts **[17:38]** himself, which is that he talks about how this one-world government is coming. You know, they're talking about peace and safety, so we should be worried about that. And and they're and they're going to make a you know, that he's worried about state control and regulation and all this stuff. He's worried about a totalitarian regime. Uh-huh. But yet his the one of the main points **[18:08]** that he makes with these as his data points is we should not regulate AI, biotech. Like technology should not be regulated because it's what's going to save us. Yeah, what I do shouldn't be regulated. It's only what everybody else does. That should be regulated. >> clear why his theology is like this when you look at his investment portfolio, which includes just lists of of **[18:40]** you know, defense contracting. Uh he He's the founder of Palan Palantir, which is a battlefield intel like data Mhm. aggregator sort of thing. Uh but he's also heavily invested in a company called Anduril Industries, which is drones and like AI tower AI like border defense towers that will just >> Skynet. He's starting Skynet. **[19:10]** >> He is Skynet. >> Yeah. Like it's so crazy. He's invested in a bunch of different startups for cybersecurity in various >> Yeah. Like Cyberdyne Systems is where it's going to go next. And then it'll go to Skynet. >> Yeah. Um And and yet he's And all of these are tools that he will sell to governments Yes. >> that he that are already funded by our by governments uh to and So, like **[19:40]** how is this going to prevent the thing that he's scared of? The thing that he is talking about. It's It's literally what is going to obviously bring about the apocalypse that he's worried about. Yeah, he doesn't seem to be you know, we're we're on the the sci-fi thing. Spend so much time worrying about if you could you didn't bother to think about if you should. >> That's right. He is going to make dinosaurs. **[20:10]** To badly quote Goldblum. Yes, he's going to make dinosaurs. I don't know where his transhumanism is going to take him. Yeah, right. Certainly not off the table. Right. He's going to try and get his his own consciousness implanted into a T-Rex or something. It's just it's just such a weird theology. The other thing the other like biblical reference that I've seen him make that I that I think is also telling about him and who he is. **[20:41]** And I think yeah, the story I think the story that we're getting to is the fact that like everybody he has taken his theological he hasn't taken the Bible and then built the theology that the Bible that he sees the Bible telling him to build. He has taken his life and then taken scriptures and just and built a theology around what he **[21:12]** likes and what's important to him Yeah. and what serves his interests and then and then and and then proclaimed that as the theology as what's true. So the thing that I was getting to is he was talking about the 10 Commandments. Oh, yeah. >> And he talked about how the most important ones are the first one and the last one. And the first one is you have to believe in God and the last one is **[21:43]** don't covet. And like immediately I thought, you know, a billionaire telling me not to covet Yeah, yeah. Let's just we're just going to bookend the law. It just rings a bit like just don't don't stop wanting all my stuff. Yeah. It doesn't say anything about greed. It's just about wanting other people's stuff. Yeah, right. If you want more of your own stuff and to multiply your own stuff that's fine. Yeah. And and if it requires **[22:17]** taking it from from others as long as you're doing it your way. Um Yeah. That what a I I think that's such an interesting attempt to just kind of take the law and just say we we just want the bookends. We don't need the books. Um But but it does suggest and and this is this is how religion works that he's just being guided by his intuitions which are all about self-preservation Yeah. and about increasing one's own standing and one's own access to power and resources. So he's basically like **[22:47]** Ooh, this is a an intuitively probably not consciously hopefully not consciously but intuitively his his subconscious is going this is a nice little instrument for us to to play with for us to advance our our own interests and structure power and values. And and I think it's odd the I'm looking at the manifesto for the X17 Collective and there's a section that says what we offer. Says we host speaker events where real conversations happen **[23:18]** where tech founders, producers, designers, and creatives talk candidly about how faith and work collide where Jesus is at the center not as an obligation but as an invitation. Uh-huh. And I am I'm just I am made of questions. Yeah. Like I just like it's kind of like it it's kind of like I'm I'm thinking of what's the what was the the comedy show with was it called Silicon Valley? Oh, **[23:48]** yeah. I'm thinking of that but they just they're sprinkling in some Jesus. Yeah. Let's just give this just a a Jesusy vibe but everything else stays the same. Yeah. It it is it is very clearly like their whole thing is how do we how do we invite tech bros into Christianity and not but without making them question the morality of any of the things that **[24:19]** they're doing because because obviously you're going to lose them if you make them question their the moral because there there are serious ethical and moral questions to 90% of what Silicon Valley is producing right now and no one wants to ask those questions. The reason that that Thiel is fighting against any kind of regulation is because he doesn't want he doesn't want any of these ethical and moral questions to get in the way **[24:51]** of him just making gobs of money. Yeah, like like Palantir sounds like an apocalyptic like that is that is that is Skynet. It's like we're we're going to create this thing that just collects all the data on everybody. Yeah. And it's like you that like the the moral problems with that the ethical issues with that. But if if you're just like hey, all that matters is you believe and you don't come after my stuff. Yeah. Like if that's your **[25:23]** theology then the moral the ethical dilemmas just disappear like a fart in the wind. We don't care about any of And if the the Satan led bad guys are coming you got to have some drones to kill them. You know what I mean? Like just get get get some AI drones. I arming AI is is what's happening right now is is what's next and Oh, daddy, that is some that is some bad ideas. You and I both know how bad AI is at at the most basic **[25:56]** of commands. Yeah. And and we we had the episode that we did with April Joy asking about her book Star-Spangled Jesus and we plugged that into chat GPT over and over and over and over again and it could not understand that this book was written by a woman one and kept hallucinating all these different authors. Yeah. So so Thiel's doing these I think it's a four-part Antichrist lectures out in San Francisco and I have **[26:29]** somebody on the inside somebody who Oh, wow. signed up for them and and after the first one we we talked and and they were like yeah I don't know what it was about like it was it was unclear what the thesis statement was. But they were they told me that there was only one scripture that was even mentioned in the whole first lecture. He evidently brought up Daniel 12:4. Okay. Which um **[26:59]** says and this is our you know our our trusty NRSVue but you Daniel keep the words secret and the book sealed until the time of the end. Many shall be running back and forth and evil shall increase. Now that's not what he read in the thing. That's the NRSVue. Okay. What he read in the thing was the King James version and and I just want to read the end of it. Many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased. So this is **[27:30]** what what Thiel evidently quoted in in some part of of this first lecture. Um And the idea seemed to be that this is some kind of prophecy about the end times. Uh-huh. And and he seemed to be appealing to the scripture to suggest that in the end times knowledge is is going to increase and obviously as someone who is interested in AI and transhumanism and in all this kind of stuff he **[28:01]** wants to suggest that he's a part of contributing to knowledge increasing and that this is maybe a sign Yeah. that the end times are are upon us but when my friend told me that that was the scripture the only thing from the Bible that that Thiel mentioned I went and looked it up because I remember thinking it strikes me that there's something weird about this verse. Mm. And when I read it from the NRSVue it ended with and evil shall increase. **[28:34]** Oh. >> because um the King James version says knowledge shall be increased and the Hebrew there if we look in the Masoretic text the traditional authoritative manuscript of the Hebrew Bible the last word is hadat which would mean the knowledge. Okay. However, this word in the Aramaic square script is sometimes indistinguishable from the word hara'a **[29:05]** which would be the evil. Oh, okay. >> And when we look at the ancient Greek translation of this passage that's exactly what it says and unrighteousness or evil wickedness will increase. Okay. And so I find it odd that well one obviously Thiel is not aware that the King James version might not be the best translation of this. >> But he's also unaware that the prophecy to which he is appealing **[29:37]** might say the exact opposite of what he is leveraging it to say regarding what's going on today but also might be a little prophetic in and of itself a given what we've talked about regarding the ethical, the moral quandaries, risks, problems, quagmire of things like unrestricted AI and Palantir and all this information on the internet. Intel on all of us and all of this and making it available to the highest bidder or to **[30:09]** somebody like Donald Trump who can't even read the word acetaminophen without He got there eventually. But he had he had to comment on what a bizarre word this was. Like have you Like I I he's the kind of person where if he said it's a banana, what can it cost? $10? I would not bat an eye. Like that wouldn't surprise me at all that that he couldn't read but but if he has access to this, like holy cow, that is that is dangerous. **[30:43]** That is phenomenally I mean it it's it's weird that Thiel can't see that like all the look, everything that I read about sort of apocalyptic bad guys in the Bible and like you point out the Bible doesn't connect Antichrist and the beast and the this and the that. Like these are all different entities or different stories or whatever. >> Different characters in different people's narratives. Right. But let's just say for the sake of **[31:13]** argument that they're the same or whatever. Okay. The how Thiel doesn't see that it's him that he's on the bad guy's side of this thing is I mean look, we're all the heroes of our own story. So that's just how that's going to work. But I mean if you're going to invoke the Bible, if you're going to say that you know, you these decisions, these ideas are based on your love of your Christian faith and you **[31:45]** know, if your manifesto of your organization is going to talk about centering Jesus, then don't we have to talk about no man can serve two masters, the parable of the rich fool, the rich young ruler, you know, like camel through the eye of a needle, like this man is a has wealth the kind of wealth that no one could have imagined. Yeah. And any other time in history. Why why is it you know, it **[32:16]** ought to be the Acts 4 collective? Okay, what's Acts 4? The Acts 4 co-op. In Acts 4, it said all who believed in Jesus came together, they were united, there was no poor among them. Because they all whatever they had, they sold so that they could distribute the money each according to their need. >> Right. So like if if you're talking about that, for crying out loud, what are you doing? **[32:47]** Be a collective. Everybody want to be a collective until it's time to be a collective and then and then it's like no, but we mean authoritarianism is is where we're coming from. We want to rule the world with an iron fist. And we think giving away all of our stuff is a bummer. Yeah, no, we don't want to do that. I mean if there's anything that Jesus had to say about money over and over and over repeated in all of the gospels, everywhere you look, you know, Matthew, Matthew 19, Mark 10, Luke 18, **[33:20]** all of these Luke 12. just so many scriptures where Jesus in the red letter scriptures says you have to like the only way to get into heaven is for you to sell your stuff and give it away to the poor. >> Yeah. This is this is something that Luke, who is the author well, whoever was the author of Luke is most likely the author of Acts. Repeatedly, you have the story of the rich young ruler where where Jesus says, **[33:52]** you still got one thing left to do, sell all that you have, give the money to the poor and he goes away upset cuz he was very wealthy and then Jesus says, yeah, look how hard it is for the wealthy to enter the kingdom of heaven and and people are like, that's a one-off. That was just personal counsel between Jesus and this kid. >> He looked at that one guy and he was like, I don't like that kind of jib. But we talked about Luke chapter 12 where the the guy says, tell my brother to to divvy up the **[34:24]** inheritance to me and and Jesus concludes his parable of the rich fool by saying sell your possessions. >> Right. To his disciples, his followers, everybody there. Yeah. Is like sell all your possessions, give the money to the poor and then we have >> don't build that bigger barn. Don't you do it. Yeah, cuz your life will be required of you. Sucker or fool. And and then the same author is the one **[34:56]** who talks about how in Acts they all lived communally. Maybe not communism but communalism at the very least, selling everything that they had and and we have the the poor couple that was like, we're not going to we're not going to sell everything. We're not going to give all the money in it. I'm going to keep a little bit. And then Peter was the one who got to say your life is required of you and and God in whatever way befitted the the circumstance, God decided to off **[35:28]** them. So Yeah, and and Peter, it was such a cold line when Peter was like the the feet of the people who've carried off your husband's corpse are at the door for you. Like that is cold-blooded. Hey, I could they're back. Yeah, they're back and guess what? You're going to die. It's your turn. Yeah, that's that's pretty cold-blooded. But the the message is pretty consistent. Yeah, this this obscene wealth **[35:59]** is not a good thing and and I think um I think Thiel is a good illustration of of the rationalizing and the cognitive dissonance and the inestimable harm that can befall the world because of of that kind of wealth being concentrated in the hands of of one individual or one or one collective so-called. Oh gosh. All right, well, I think we've pounded on on poor Peter for long **[36:31]** enough. Let let's >> Rhetorically speaking. I don't know what I'd do if I were actually in his presence, probably just sell out completely and let him I would come back on the show in a heartbeat and just I've got an opportunity for you, Peter. Recant everything that I've said for the right price. Call me, Peter Thiel. I know you can get my number. All right, let's let's move on then to taking issue. **[37:04]** And what we're taking issue with is is a star. So this this is a this is an idiotic and an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that I've seen I don't know how many times on social media and I've made a handful of videos over the years about this. But there are some some folks out there who like to suggest that the star of Well, first off, the Star of David is not in the Bible. Right. This is this is the six-pointed **[37:35]** star that is sort of the the de facto symbol of Judaism and of the state of Israel. In general. >> On the Israeli flag. An upward pointed triangle over a downward pointed triangle or under. Yeah. Or they could be put they could be pointed sort of diagonally, too. Diagonally, yeah. It's these are these are equilateral triangles. They point in three directions. So just have fun with that. Yeah. >> for what it's worth. Yeah, it's just it's a hexagram. Yeah. **[38:05]** So we have hexagrams and pentagrams and all manner of gram that are Yeah. >> Yeah, your or that are used as geographic geographic Oh my gosh. What's the word? Geometric. Geometric designs that are used in architecture and iconography and stuff like that. Like we can we can find this in in India going back to like 1000 BCE. Like all over the world, the hexagram is just you know, people make hexagrams. Okay? **[38:37]** It's a it's a pretty simple but fun to look at image. Yeah, and you know, we see it on there's a there's a hexagram on the cover, the front of the Leningrad Codex, which is the the Masoretic text, the the oldest complete edition of the Hebrew Bible, dates to about 1008 CE. There's a hexagram on the cover of that. It's if you go visit Capernaum and and now's don't go. Um Wrong time. Wrong Yeah, not not time to **[39:09]** be over there for touristy purposes. But if you in Capernaum, they have some of the old like stone lintels from the not the not the thing you make soup with but the the thing that the architectural feature. The the the over the door Yeah. bit of stone or whatever. >> Yeah, and they have these from a synagogue that's from like the third or fourth century CE from Capernaum. And and they have you can see a hexagram carved into that and then a pentagram right next to it. So anyway **[39:39]** because it really didn't become associated like formally with Judaism until like the 19th century. Oh, really? Yeah, like you you see it being used starting in like the 14th century as something that's not just a a fun design, but something that is symbolic of Judaism. That they're that they're that they're identifying with themselves in some >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. And 19th century is when it becomes associated more saliently with Zionism. Ah. So, um but there's a there's a **[40:11]** theory that it was borrowed from an occult symbol. Yes. An occult symbol that's mentioned in the Bible. Oh. >> Um don't don't die. Yes. Um they say it is the star of Remphan, which >> Now, I went to a Remphan a Ren Fair. Wait, no. Okay. No, you you went to Burning Man. >> I That was true. I'm pretty sure they think that that's Remphan. Uh I'm pretty sure >> They would definitely associate it. Yeah, don't put any stars up at Burning **[40:43]** Man cuz they're going to get you. >> They'll only tell you you're worshipping Remphan. So, what is Remphan? What are What are we talking about? >> Um What is a Remphan? We don't know for sure, but it is probably some kind of deity associated with Saturn. Okay. Remphan occurs only once uh in the New Testament. It's in Acts chapter 7 verse 43, and this is where Stephen uh is he's about to be martyred, but he is **[41:13]** lecturing uh the folks on on the history gives like a a real brief history of uh Israel and and Judaism and quotes a passage from uh Amos. Amos 5:26, and we'll get to Amos, but in Acts 7:43, Stephen says, "No, you took along the tent of Moloch and the star of your god Remphan, the images that you made to worship." Okay. >> So, so Stephen is is upset about this, **[41:45]** but he's he's quoting a Greek translation of Amos 5:26. Okay. >> Now, when we go back into Amos 5:26, here's what it says in the Hebrew. You shall take up Siccuth, your king, and Chiun, your star god, your images which you made for yourself. Um A little different. Doesn't sound quite the same. We've got a We've got a few things going on here. Um Siccuth is **[42:16]** being misunderstood as having something to do uh with the Greek word um uh skene, uh which is like a tent. Okay. >> Um so, it is being misunderstood as a reference to a tent. So, in Acts it says, "You took along the tent of Moloch." Uh in the Hebrew we have Siccuth, your king, and the word melech, king, is being misunderstood by the Greek translators as Moloch, Moloch. **[42:48]** >> which a lot of people think is this uh this god of child sacrifice. >> god, I you hear that all the time Yes. >> on like in like some evangelical Tik Tok. Somebody will be like, "Moloch, you they're worshippers of Moloch." You know, I'm you know, again, as an atheist, it's I'm a Moloch worshipper somehow. >> Yeah, yeah. Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria. Yes. Um but there was never any deity named Moloch that was worshipped in the ancient world. We've done I think we've done an **[43:20]** episode on this. Haven't we done an episode on this? >> We've mentioned it. I don't know if we've done a whole episode of it. All right, well, in short, this is just a word that referred to a specific type of sacrifice, and the Greek translators didn't know that word. >> Yeah. And so, they thought it was the name of some deity. Okay. >> So, the the deity Moloch never existed. Um not in the sense that there were other deities running around, but this one was a fake one, but >> Right. I was going to say, from my perspective, none of the deities existed, but that but I get what you're **[43:50]** saying. Yes. >> Yes. Um and then we have uh Chiun or uh Kiyyun in the Hebrew is probably a Hebrew transliteration of an Akkadian deity name Chiun, Okay. >> a deity associated with Saturn. Uh your images, yada yada yada. But in in short, uh the this name Chiun has been replaced with this other name Remphan, which is probably either an Egyptian or a Greco-Roman deity, minor deity, JV deity **[44:21]** who probably has something to do with the planet Saturn. Okay. >> it mentions a star and because the Star of David is a manner of star, It is. Sure, sure. the conspiracy theorists just go uh and and here I'm thinking of the court scene from My Cousin Vinny. Identical. They're just arbitrarily >> Right. imagining, "Well, this must be the same star." Yeah. >> Because, you know, how many stars you **[44:51]** got out there? Not Not as as that old fool said, "Billions and billions and billions." No, no, there's only one. Um so, the this star of Remphan has to be the Star of David. So, there's a conspiracy theory out there that's uh And and because of we've also got the mistranslation Moloch, Remphan and Moloch also must be >> identical. Yeah. Uh so, obviously the worship of Remphan must also involve child sacrifice, **[45:23]** uh dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria, all all of the goodies. Yeah. So, um it's it's an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that suggests basically that Jewish folks in the 19th century and and you know precisely the family that they think started it all. The Rothschilds. >> Sure, yeah. That they consciously, intentionally were like, "Let's take this occult star uh that commemorates our worship of Remphan, and let's make that the uh **[45:56]** official symbol of Zionism and of Judaism." Um and and then it gets even worse because we have uh we have a hexagram and a pentagram that are found in some literature from the 19th century. Mhm. Uh there's a there was a book called The History and Practice of Magic by a French author uh who went by a pseudonym uh Paul Christian. Okay. Um and he's talking basically about all this symbolism that **[46:26]** he's found in these grimoires and and all this kind of stuff. Yeah. And he draws a picture of a of a um a medallion that on one side it has a hexagram with a bull's head in the center of it, and then on the other side has a pentagram. And um it's called the talisman of Saturn. Mhm. >> And he says, "I- It is a preservative against danger of death through apoplexy, cancer, decaying of the bones, consumption, dropsy, paralysis, **[46:58]** phthisis, p h t h i s i s, phthisis, against the danger of being buried alive while in a state of coma, Ah. um you know, the universal anxiety, Yeah. >> again- against the danger of violent death through secret plotting, poison, or ambush, this talisman preserves women from the mortal perils which accompany or sometimes follow childbirth. If in time of war the leader of an army hides the talisman of Saturn in a place which is in danger of falling into the enemy's **[47:28]** hands, that enemy will be unable to cross the limits set up by the presence of the talisman and will then retreat either discouraged or overcome by a resolute counterattack." Okay. >> So, um the conspiracy theorists will suggest that this talisman that is invented in the 1850s by Paul Christian goes all the way back to the ancient world. >> Yes, of course it does. >> all all Jewish uses of this symbol are **[47:58]** derivative of its use as a symbol of Saturn and the gods Remphan and Moloch. It's It's always been very funny to me in the uh to coin a phrase, in in the symbology uh in the look I'm a symbologist. When one looks at symbols, when you when like when you take something as simple as a six-pointed star or a five-pointed star if you want **[48:29]** to talk about like Satanism or whatever, like yeah, throughout the centuries, throughout the millennia, lots of people are going to have used a very simple symbol like that for various different reasons. Mhm. And you know, it does The fact that one, you know, if for instance, a group of people uh who are naughty start using a star, you know, a six-pointed star as their symbol, too, **[49:00]** that's not a reflection on another group of people that are just using it for their symbol. You know what I mean? Like They don't They don't have inherent meaning. No, just like all words. Yeah. Like Like >> They mean what people use them to mean, and and that's one of the foundations of conspiracy theories. Is this symbol that we think means one thing way over here must mean that same thing way over there. >> Right. The fact that Hitler started using a swastika doesn't affect what it meant for centuries before to the Hindu **[49:32]** people Yes. >> who used a swastika. >> Yes. It It it mean that they were for those for low those many centuries you know anti-semitic and and and interested in the the promotion of the Aryan race or something. >> Yes and not fascists. >> Right. Um Although Aryan the word Aryan does come from sort of India. Now oh now I'm in a really weird place. Okay. Now I've got a conspiracy theory. I'm working on it. I'll I'll come back to **[50:03]** you all with it. Keep your hand on the rope. Don't get to There's another shape. There's some conspiracy theories associated with this. Do you know what a mandorla is? I think you're pronouncing it wrong. Man mandala. Mandorlian. No mandorla. Mandorlian. No a mandorla is an almond shape. So if you if you take two circles and you move them so that you have kind of two semi-circles that connect **[50:33]** and create an almond shape. Okay. Yes. >> That that is a mandorla. Right. >> And that has been a very common um geometric not geographic um geometric design throughout history around the world. >> Sure. But uh in some places it has been used as as symbolic of a vulva. Right. >> Yes. And uh and so you have a lot of folks who are like ah the Jesus fish is just a sideways vulva with with with the **[51:04]** tail. With the tail. Sure. Sure. Yeah that's a And so it's all this is all about worship of the of the the the divine feminine and and >> holy vulva. Yeah. Uh but yeah you you get this all the time where people are like don't you see the connection? It's like well I see that one group is using a symbol one way and another group is using a symbol another way and you want to insist that you're in charge of what those symbols are allowed to mean. Right. Um and it just doesn't work like **[51:37]** that. Um so ooh. But uh yeah the conspiracy theories are are are wild regarding the the Magen David the Star of David. Well let's get back to the Star of David. Just briefly can you talk about why is it called that? How how how is it linked to David? Um well you I think you had some people who were probably imagining that uh this symbol went back uh some people think that it was you know **[52:09]** it would have been on the banners that that King David flew or or people imagine that this was carved into the pillars in the the palace of uh of King David. You also have it connected with the lion. Um there are you see that from time to time and including in Rastafarian cultures Okay. >> you will have a lion and the Star of David uh put together. Okay. The the fact that **[52:40]** you had an early connection between the star and Solomon so like the the key of Solomon is one of those old um grimoire type texts that some people think the the Star of David goes back to. Uh and it is sometimes has been known as the the Seal of Solomon. Yeah. Um I I think that's probably how it gets connected with David but I don't know how far back the name Star of David is. **[53:11]** That's so interesting. It's just yeah it does And it's in the the Kabbalah is probably where um medieval Jewish mystical literature is is where it probably has the main association with. All right. With King David. I That's fascinating to me because yeah it does feel it feels like a you know this has just been the symbol of Judaism since time immemorial but Mhm. obviously that's just not the case and uh No. **[53:42]** And and yeah just No you we should do the cross next. We should we should get That would be an interesting one to do also. >> That would be an interesting one. Well we we haven't done a show on on uh why we think Jesus was crucified on a T-shaped cross have we? No. >> and that gets into the Jehovah's Witnesses because um are you are you not aware? Oh oh they don't they just do like a a a Yeah a stake. A stake. Yeah. Yeah **[54:13]** yeah. >> We'll we'll have to figure all that out. We'll have to sort out the cross. That's a good one for for next time the the morning of our our recording when we text each other going what are we going to talk about today? Don't give away our Jesus crucifix. Yeah. We we wear our hearts on our sleeves here. But yeah it is it is throughout the cabalistic usage. Uh do do do Are you are you just reading Wikipedia right now? I just want to know. No. I'm **[54:44]** I'm looking at the internet but not Wikipedia. >> Okay. Anyway uh Yeah I think I it's it's a it's a fascinating thing. Um did you have more on that? >> No I I think I'm I'm done complaining about this thing. I sprung that on you. I I I admit that that that that that question about like the association with David you and I hadn't Oh no I I should have I should have looked that up before We hadn't talked about it. That's that's my fault. Anyway I should look up a lot of stuff before we start recording the show but **[55:17]** any amount of prep work before we start and not just rely on the fact that you have whatever brain you were given to just remember almost all of the stuff. Ah But I sure am grateful for that brain. I think it's fun. Uh So there you go friends. There's that's the Star of David. Um hopefully Peter Thiel doesn't start talking about it as being the Oh gosh. the symbol of the of the Antichrist or something. **[55:47]** Remphan Remphan. Yeah. >> Or actually many some manuscripts say Rephan some say Reiphan some say Rophan. Okay. They it's written a bunch of different ways. We're not sure exactly what it is but the conspiracy theorists all say Remphan. Okay. >> Cuz I I think maybe that sounds the creepiest I don't know. All right. Well look out for Remphan. If you if you see him and and you want to let us know where he's at and what what what he means. **[56:17]** And otherwise uh if you would like to become a part of making this show happen and be one of our favorite people you can become one of our patrons. Go over to patreon.com/dataoverdogma. And there you can you can join up. You can get access to an early and ad-free version of every episode as well as potentially access to our after-party where there's bonus content literally every week. **[56:48]** And we we sure do appreciate that. Our show was edited by Roger Goudy. Thank you so much for tuning in. We'll talk to you again next week. Bye everybody. [Music]