Post Status Cache Up With Mary Hubbard  ## Metadata - Author: [[Post Status Podcasts]] - Full Title: Post Status Cache Up With Mary Hubbard - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/0673019d-2e58-420a-a088-f9463ead2745 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Setting the Stage** - Share your location and some personal details to give context. - Briefly discuss the weather to add a relatable element. Transcript: Michelle Frechette Welcome to the Cash Up, Cashing Up podcast from Post Status. I guess it's called Cash Up because we are cashing up with people. A little play on words there. Sorry, I lean 100% into the nerd side of the world. So today, my guest is Mary Hubbard. Mary, it is so good to see you. You are the executive director of WordPress. Did I get that right? Mary Hubbard Yes, yes. Michelle Frechette Awesome. I made sure to read it to make sure I had it right beforehand, but we've been chatting for a little while. So I wanted to make sure I didn't forget what it was. And you've been in your role just, I think a little under four months now, or probably like three months and change something. Yeah. Mary Hubbard Yeah. I started, I started officially like the first week of September. Okay. Michelle Frechette So October 24th, the first week of November. When they put the announcement out on the wordpress.org blog. So that's what I was going by. So yeah. So you're about a quarter of a year in, you stepped into a very rapid moving river because WordPress does not slow down, but it's not foreign to you. So first I'm going to ask you to talk a little bit about who you are, where you live. I know which part of the world you're in. I think that's always good to know when you're talking to somebody who's not in your own time zone or whether you discover they're in your time zone, but also it gives a little insight Into what the weather is like where you are. I experienced a lot of snow too, and you and I are not in the same place. So yeah, just give you a little bit about who you are, what you'd like to share about your life. Sure. Mary Hubbard I recently relocated to the Pacific Northwest. So I am in a town called Issaquah, Washington. It's in the mountains, suburb of Seattle. And what brought us here was that, obviously I was working for TikTok before and TikTok is RTO5. And so they're headquartered in Bellevue for our division and so I was I'm relocated up here from California but I'm a California native so I was born and raised in California um and then Of course lived in random areas throughout the United States and globally um but yeah I'm a little surprised by the Seattle weather like uh I'm currently in seven inches of snow. Yeah, I did not that. But hey, schools are closed. So you know, you get to deal with the children as well. Exactly. Michelle Frechette Yeah, we don't close schools here unless there's about four feet of snow. Because I'm from Western New York, where we're really used to it. But we did close school last week because it was subzero temperatures. And they have to close when it's that cold because so many kids have to wait outside for a while for the bus. And within half a mile, I think it is, at certain ages, they have to walk to school. And that's too dangerous for frostbite. So everybody got to go to school last week. Mary Hubbard Imagine I couldn't I guess that that that is the old story though that we heard growing up I had to walk in the snow uphill both ways yeah I don't know if people still tell that story like I don't think I've ever told that story to my children I don't know if their stories exist anymore but they did at one point in our childhood yes somewhere between my kids and the kids of Michelle Frechette That are entering school today will be the story of and there was a whole year where we had to do school in front of a computer at home. Yes. It's amazing what things become part of your story. Mary Hubbard My son asked me recently, because we just, the whole family got over the stomach flu and he was recently saying like, I don't know, maybe we should start wearing masks when we travel. I'm like, that's a very good idea because he does remember wearing a mask like maybe you should wear a mask on a plane but then I'm like no get those germs boy you're seven get those germs Michelle Frechette Yeah exactly I know I know about chicken pox parties I don't I never actually participated in one but like the chicken pox parties like everybody's got kids that have have chicken pox. Get them all together, get it over with quick. Mary Hubbard That's not even a thing anymore. I remember the chicken pox parties, but both of my kids are vaccinated for chicken pox. But I remember that clear as day, clear as day coming over and everybody hanging out. And then with us all getting it together. We had big time, the 80s, they were a good time. Michelle Frechette You want to look at my lollipop so you'll make sure you get it yeah that kind of thing my daughter's 33 she was also vaccinated she was among the first kids that age group to get vaccinated Mary Hubbard For oh really yeah yeah I was always I was wondering because you know by the time I had my my first kid and they told us that he needed a vaccination for that I was a little surprised because I you know why would I pay attention to that I'm like when did that come out so it's been around for a while your daughter's 33 yeah yeah she probably got it at four or five years old maybe Michelle Frechette Six I don't know for sure but yeah when she was young before she was in school um and she never got chicken pox and doesn't have the scars from like like I have from having had chickenpox. Mary Hubbard I have a permanent one right here. Michelle Frechette Yeah, I have one on the end of my nose that turns red when I cry. So our turn is white when the rest of my face turns red. Anyway, I go down rabbit holes all the time, but it's a nice way to get to know people too. But random stories. So as I said, WordPress isn't new to you. So what position were you in at WordPress before you left to go to TikTok? I think it was. And then back here. So give us a little bit of what the last five or so years looked like for you work-wise. Mary Hubbard At WooCommerce. So I joined Automatic as the GM of the marketplace and then worked at Woo for a few years building that out and then moved over to WordPress.com and was the head of product and engineering For WordPress.com. And I worked for around two years, two and a half years before I had exited over to TikTok. So yeah it was one of those I like to follow emerging technology so like what we were talking about before um I I find I find tech so interesting and I I'm very much that person that's like Oh I want to see this or I want to try this I want to do this and so I just make very quick like movements on that behalf. And so TikTok was creating and launching TikTok shop in the United States. And so at the time I was living in London and I was actually, what's it called? Consulting for TikTok shop because I have built out a lot of marketplaces in my career from eBay motors to Walmart for Walmart's first open marketplace, um, Gazelle assurance marketplace. And so I'm very familiar with e-commerce and the development of marketplace, the tools, uh, the ecosystem. And so I was essentially advising them because it was already live in London. And, uh, and, uh, then this opportunity came and it's like, no, I'm good. I'm not going to do that. But we need to launch. It's going to, you know, this is going to be the next, the future of shopping. That's really, right. And so I took it and jumped over to TikTok Shop and launched TikTok Shop in the Americas. And so I was the head ([Time 0:00:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/915d0a34-5b85-4018-9479-6904f1d929f2)) - Here are five reflection questions based on the podcast episode: 1. **How can leaders effectively share context to foster trust and improve decision-making within their teams?** Consider Mary Hubbard's emphasis on understanding the "why" behind decisions. 2. **What strategies can be employed to create a supportive and approachable leadership style that makes team members feel seen and valued?** Reflect on Mary's proactive approach in offering help and support. 3. **How can individuals cultivate a growth mindset by embracing the unknown and actively seeking help when needed?** Consider Mary's encouragement to ask questions and seek support as key components of learning and improvement. 4. **How has the rapid evolution of technology impacted workplace dynamics, and what strategies can be used to adapt and thrive in this changing environment?** Reflect on Mary's experiences at TikTok and her observations about generational differences in technology adoption. 5. **What are the key ingredients in building a strong and supportive community around a product or project?** Consider Mary’s discussion of the WordPress and WooCommerce communities and her observations on how community members support each other and the project. Transcript: Michelle Frechette When they put the announcement out on the wordpress.org blog. So that's what I was going by. So yeah. So you're about a quarter of a year in, you stepped into a very rapid moving river because WordPress does not slow down, but it's not foreign to you. So first I'm going to ask you to talk a little bit about who you are, where you live. I know which part of the world you're in. I think that's always good to know when you're talking to somebody who's not in your own time zone or whether you discover they're in your time zone, but also it gives a little insight Into what the weather is like where you are. I experienced a lot of snow too, and you and I are not in the same place. So yeah, just give you a little bit about who you are, what you'd like to share about your life. Sure. Mary Hubbard I recently relocated to the Pacific Northwest. So I am in a town called Issaquah, Washington. It's in the mountains, suburb of Seattle. And what brought us here was that, obviously I was working for TikTok before and TikTok is RTO5. And so they're headquartered in Bellevue for our division and so I was I'm relocated up here from California but I'm a California native so I was born and raised in California um and then Of course lived in random areas throughout the United States and globally um but yeah I'm a little surprised by the Seattle weather like uh I'm currently in seven inches of snow. Yeah, I did not that. But hey, schools are closed. So you know, you get to deal with the children as well. Exactly. Michelle Frechette Yeah, we don't close schools here unless there's about four feet of snow. Because I'm from Western New York, where we're really used to it. But we did close school last week because it was subzero temperatures. And they have to close when it's that cold because so many kids have to wait outside for a while for the bus. And within half a mile, I think it is, at certain ages, they have to walk to school. And that's too dangerous for frostbite. So everybody got to go to school last week. Mary Hubbard Imagine I couldn't I guess that that that is the old story though that we heard growing up I had to walk in the snow uphill both ways yeah I don't know if people still tell that story like I don't think I've ever told that story to my children I don't know if their stories exist anymore but they did at one point in our childhood yes somewhere between my kids and the kids of Michelle Frechette That are entering school today will be the story of and there was a whole year where we had to do school in front of a computer at home. Yes. It's amazing what things become part of your story. Mary Hubbard My son asked me recently, because we just, the whole family got over the stomach flu and he was recently saying like, I don't know, maybe we should start wearing masks when we travel. I'm like, that's a very good idea because he does remember wearing a mask like maybe you should wear a mask on a plane but then I'm like no get those germs boy you're seven get those germs Michelle Frechette Yeah exactly I know I know about chicken pox parties I don't I never actually participated in one but like the chicken pox parties like everybody's got kids that have have chicken pox. Get them all together, get it over with quick. Mary Hubbard That's not even a thing anymore. I remember the chicken pox parties, but both of my kids are vaccinated for chicken pox. But I remember that clear as day, clear as day coming over and everybody hanging out. And then with us all getting it together. We had big time, the 80s, they were a good time. Michelle Frechette You want to look at my lollipop so you'll make sure you get it yeah that kind of thing my daughter's 33 she was also vaccinated she was among the first kids that age group to get vaccinated Mary Hubbard For oh really yeah yeah I was always I was wondering because you know by the time I had my my first kid and they told us that he needed a vaccination for that I was a little surprised because I you know why would I pay attention to that I'm like when did that come out so it's been around for a while your daughter's 33 yeah yeah she probably got it at four or five years old maybe Michelle Frechette Six I don't know for sure but yeah when she was young before she was in school um and she never got chicken pox and doesn't have the scars from like like I have from having had chickenpox. Mary Hubbard I have a permanent one right here. Michelle Frechette Yeah, I have one on the end of my nose that turns red when I cry. So our turn is white when the rest of my face turns red. Anyway, I go down rabbit holes all the time, but it's a nice way to get to know people too. But random stories. So as I said, WordPress isn't new to you. So what position were you in at WordPress before you left to go to TikTok? I think it was. And then back here. So give us a little bit of what the last five or so years looked like for you work-wise. Mary Hubbard At WooCommerce. So I joined Automatic as the GM of the marketplace and then worked at Woo for a few years building that out and then moved over to WordPress.com and was the head of product and engineering For WordPress.com. And I worked for around two years, two and a half years before I had exited over to TikTok. So yeah it was one of those I like to follow emerging technology so like what we were talking about before um I I find I find tech so interesting and I I'm very much that person that's like Oh I want to see this or I want to try this I want to do this and so I just make very quick like movements on that behalf. And so TikTok was creating and launching TikTok shop in the United States. And so at the time I was living in London and I was actually, what's it called? Consulting for TikTok shop because I have built out a lot of marketplaces in my career from eBay motors to Walmart for Walmart's first open marketplace, um, Gazelle assurance marketplace. And so I'm very familiar with e-commerce and the development of marketplace, the tools, uh, the ecosystem. And so I was essentially advising them because it was already live in London. And, uh, and, uh, then this opportunity came and it's like, no, I'm good. I'm not going to do that. But we need to launch. It's going to, you know, this is going to be the next, the future of shopping. That's really, right. And so I took it and jumped over to TikTok Shop and launched TikTok Shop in the Americas. And so I was the head of governance and experience in brand product and engineering for TikTok Shop. It was a wild ride. It still is. It's amazing what they're doing and building out. And so I'm excited for TikTok shop. And when I saw everything that was happening and ended up speaking with Matt, and I had spoken to Matt multiple times when I was at TikTok, kind of bouncing ideas or again, talking about The future, what type of future of technology is open source and things of ... ([Time 0:01:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9399d3e6-7000-4b64-9c0d-9dda2f97b8e9)) - **Tech Adaptability** - Adaptability to technology drives success, not just using it. - Gen Z has limited tech evolution experience compared to older generations who witnessed diverse iterations. Transcript: Michelle Frechette Cool. That'd be cool. Yeah. Mary Hubbard Like think about it as like an AI tutor almost. So when you're looking at something and like, how can they get more intelligent and how can you learn and how can they learn from it? Because that's the future. Like they're going to be they're going to be treating very different than we are as we're growing it um but i was reflecting on this recently because i was having a conversation with my Sister-in and it's interesting because there's an argument around why certain certain generations um are so successful within technology and the biggest part of it is because if You look at if you look at our generation right we've seen the evolution of technology like we were just talking about phones we've seen the change tech but other generations like gen Z have just seen like 16 iterations of the iphone right and when you think about innovation and different formats and it's actually the adaptability to technology, which makes certain Folks so successful there, it's because they're learning and adapting to it rather than just using it. ([Time 0:20:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9e675ee4-4c89-4526-91ed-e1ebd544732f)) - Here are three contrarian moments from the podcast, where conventional wisdom is challenged: **1. The Power of Context in Leadership** Play from 38:27. Mary Hubbard argues that sharing context, even if unpleasant, is crucial for effective leadership. This contradicts the idea that leaders should always present a positive and optimistic outlook, regardless of challenges. Instead, she emphasizes transparency and trust-building through shared context, even if team members don't agree with every decision. > I think one of the principles that I have of leadership in general is I thrive in context. I must understand why we're doing something. And I believe that if we share the context, even if it's harsh or unrealistic, whatever it is, where are the context of these decisions coming from and what is the ultimate vision, it makes doing our day-to-day job so much easier. > > — **Mary Hubbard** **2. Adaptability in Technology** Play from 20:33. Mary Hubbard suggests that certain generations' success in technology stems from their adaptability rather than simply their usage of technology. This counters the common belief that simply using new technologies equates to technological proficiency. She points out that those who have experienced many iterations of technology are better equipped to adapt and innovate. > ...it's actually the adaptability to technology, which makes certain folks so successful there, it's because they're learning and adapting to it rather than just using it. > > — **Mary Hubbard** **3. The Value of "Useless Projects"** Play from 40:02. Mary Hubbard describes herself as the "queen of useless projects," highlighting the value of pursuing personally fulfilling activities outside of professional goals. This challenges the conventional emphasis on productivity and efficiency above all else. It suggests that engaging in hobbies and less goal-oriented activities contributes to overall well-being and creative thinking. > so I'm the queen of useless projects love it...and that's what I love to do > > — **Mary Hubbard** Transcript: Mary Hubbard Like they're going to be they're going to be treating very different than we are as we're growing it um but i was reflecting on this recently because i was having a conversation with my Sister-in and it's interesting because there's an argument around why certain certain generations um are so successful within technology and the biggest part of it is because if You look at if you look at our generation right we've seen the evolution of technology like we were just talking about phones we've seen the change tech but other generations like gen Z have just seen like 16 iterations of the iphone right and when you think about innovation and different formats and it's actually the adaptability to technology, which makes certain Folks so successful there, it's because they're learning and adapting to it rather than just using it. Right. Really reflecting on that as, as how I can use AI effectively for my own children, how they will use it as they age up right because they just iPad my kid codes like Roblox he creates his Own Roblox that's amazing it's just a real I don't know something to really chew on for a while I have often thought about the fact that people who've come into WordPress since 2018 didn't Michelle Frechette Have the whole, oh, I've got to use Gutenberg and the block editor and what's that? Like I used to teach WordPress until the block editor came out. And then I was like, well, I have to learn this before I can teach it. And then I got so busy with other things that I've never taught it actually. I should sometime just so that I make sure I know everything. I mean, I use it constantly. I love the block editor, right? We have a theme cadence and we use, it's a block. It's uses blocks. So I've been using that constantly. But I never thought about like, just, oh, let's just start another class and just teach people how to do that. But to have that kind of thing be your native, you know, your starting block, if you will. It's like, how cool is that? Like they didn't have to, there was such heels dug in and I'm never going to use it. And people were just so against it. I'm like, just learn it. Like, like when, when Facebook changes its layout and people are like, I hate the new Facebook. Like, I don't remember what the old Facebook looked like. I've used it for so many years. I've been through so many iterations. Okay. That's what it looks like now. Right. But like, yes. Mary Hubbard And now you've bounced into it. It's like all the way down to common core. Are learning math and the argument is that of course well the parents can't assist today because but it's actually easier for children to understand right and once those generations Come up you'll actually see a higher literacy rate yes when you enter into a technology and the ease of use is high i remember these conversations around mac. Remember the conversations like years ago, 20 something years ago, we were talking about Apple and like people were looking from like PC over to Mac and like how difficult it was, but It actually, if you put it in front of a first time user that it's so, so the usability UI on it is so much better, but people were just hard found. Yeah. It's, it is. Michelle Frechette And the older you get, the harder it is to change sometimes. And so I've tried to, you know, I'm going to be 57 this year and I've tried to make it my mantra not to resist change, but to learn it and embrace it because I don't want to be left in the dust, Quite honestly, right? Like I was helping my mother learn how to use her new iPhone the other day and it was like pulling, I wanted to pull my hair out because I was so frustrated, I had, take a beat, take a breath. She's a lot older than you. It's taking her a while to learn these things. And so just having patience with people, which isn't always easy when it's your mom, but yes, understandable. Mary Hubbard Are you, are you the, are you the, you have to do this. Go ahead. Go ahead. Move. Just let me do it. Or are you the person that sits back and says, Hey, let me, let me show you what type. Michelle Frechette So I first say, let me show you how to do it. And then we're going to back up and do the steps so that you have an idea of beginning to end, what it will look like. And then I'm going to walk you through step by step. If you make a mistake, I'm going to take you back a step and we're going to start from there again. It doesn't mean I'm not inside my head going, Oh my God, just do the next step. But yeah, I try to have patience. Yeah. I have people that have patience with me when I don't understand something. So, and I'm not a developer. So when people like are developers and they're trying to teach you something really quick and I'm like, but I don't, I don't, I don't, can you just give me the code? You know, kind of thing. Right. I just, I just want to implement the code I just need the CSS and I don't have to understand it you know kind of thing I do it it's so true it's like you have to remember that people are learning Mary Hubbard And it's like well hold on I'm trying to learn I'm not trying to like fast forward through it and that's like there's two different use cases no just give it to me I need to do it versus I'm Trying to actually understand. Right. Um, both take a very different level of patience for yourself. Right. Right. Michelle Frechette When I'm, when I'm trying to learn something or accomplish something, I'll say, do you think I'll need to know this again? If I'm never going to need to know this again, can you just give me the last, what do I need? If I'm going to need to do this again, will you teach me how to do it? So I won't have to bothering you? Kind of thing. But, I mean, that is easier said than done. I'm not a perfect person. And so if you have not had that experience with me, whoever's listening, I apologize. Mary Hubbard You know, I've been a blanket apology. I'm sorry. It's like we started. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Michelle Frechette I have what they call feet of clay. I make a lot of mistakes in my life. Mary ... ([Time 0:20:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7b034d74-dbd5-4e9d-83f2-51e0a47dfcfd)) - **Learning and Patience** - Ask if you need to repeat a task. - Request detailed instructions only if you will do the task often. Transcript: Michelle Frechette I'm, when I'm trying to learn something or accomplish something, I'll say, do you think I'll need to know this again? If I'm never going to need to know this again, can you just give me the last, what do I need? If I'm going to need to do this again, will you teach me how to do it? ([Time 0:25:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bc7c54ee-f03e-418e-99b0-44dca9c597a0)) - **Learning Styles and Support** - Michelle Frechette prefers direct help over documentation. - Mark Westgard, despite texting documentation links, readily offers Zoom or login assistance. Transcript: Michelle Frechette Really depends on how quickly I need to resolve it. If it's something that has a little bit of time, I'm going to try to figure it out myself. Otherwise, so I don't know if you've met Mark Westgard yet. He owns WS Form. He is, in my opinion, like the best developer ever because I, and he texts constantly. He's like one of my besties in WordPress. And I'll be like, how do I do this? And he'll send me the link to his documentation I'll be like I don't want to read just tell me how to do it can you just so it's just drop it on my computer please just take it over and he'll Be like what's your zoom link and I'll be like thank you so I appreciate you or give me give me a login you know kind of thing for sure. Mary Hubbard It's ([Time 0:26:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e749101a-3984-48c3-b619-f04e018fcb94)) - **Community-Focused Leadership** - Mary Hubbard prioritizes community growth and support over personal recognition. - She finds fulfillment in enabling her teams and actively seeks guidance from her advisory board. Transcript: Michelle Frechette We've talked about a million different things. What do you like? So you've been three months in. What are you happiest about so far? I'm going to the three-part question. What are you happiest about so far? What are you most excited about what has accomplished in the first three months? What are you most looking forward to within the next year and what do you see as like a road bump for yourself like something where you have a little bit more to learn before you feel really Confident about it okay um let me let me wind back what the first the first one is like for your first three months like what's your proudest accomplishment what are you happiest about Mary Hubbard What has the team that just makes you happy from your first three months you know I'm I'm learning a lot right like being in the community is different than working with the community Yes and so I'm learning a lot um and so I think that people have been very supportive and so I think that um there's a lot of a lot that's happening around us. And I appreciate it. I'm grateful that there are there are folks that are very focused and pushing through and continuing to move the project forward. And I think that that that's a proud moment for the community, not for me personally i'm i'm happy and i can see it and i think that there are strong community contributors and strong community People in here that have really stepped up and led and continue to and uh there's good conversations that are happening um around and amongst the noise and i think that that is something That the individuals, you know, the individuals that are taking this upon themselves, right? Like looking at this next release, you should be very proud. I mean, this is, it's an accomplishment. It's a, it's fantastic. And I, and I think that that's great. And I have immediately, like, there's a lot of gaps in my understanding of just having community dynamics work. And there are certain folks that have reached out, you, you, including, included, um, you know, there's, I have an advisory board within the community and, um, I'm speaking to them Often and they've been so supportive and helpful and I'm proud of that. ([Time 0:27:37](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3eda014d-ade7-491b-b766-16e13af9fbe6)) - **Leading from Behind** - Mary Hubbard prefers working behind the scenes and empowering her team. - She values context and transparency in decision-making. Transcript: Michelle Frechette Love that. I'm excited about things when you and I met, I don't know, a month or two ago. If I'd even been before the holidays, it's been a weird, like quarter, shall we say? And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you said something along the lines of like, you're like a worker, you're a heads down person, and you haven't necessarily enjoyed the spotlight On you a lot in the past. But this year, that's going to be changing a lot for you. You're a keynote at PressConf. I can't remember the other. Is it CloudFest that you're speaking? Mary Hubbard Not a keynote, just a fireside chat. Michelle Frechette Fireside chat. Mary Hubbard No, no, no. Michelle Frechette Okay. Keynotes are coming. I'm just, keynotes are coming. But there's a lot of, going to be on the stage a lot more in this current role than you probably have been in the past although I don't know what your history has been um how are you adjusting Mary Hubbard To that you do not enjoy it um so I don't know if I'll do it I think that um there are certain things that uh I am very comfortable one-on and in small crowds and just having a conversation. Uh, I'm, I'm uncomfortable speaking in front of large audiences to tell or to do something. And it's not that I'm, I just, my personality type is more conversational and I'm very off, like I'm off the cuff and I get very passionate and I hyper fixate. So if I hyper fixate, you get me going on a subject. I'm like, Oh, I'm going to talk about this, you know, and I have a lot of passion. And so I'm better with that because I enjoy feedback loops and conversations. So I'm more for my entire career. I've always said, I don't know if you're a game of Thrones fan. I binge watched the entire thing before the final season that i could catch up but like i i'm very much a like i like to work through other people so i think it's more important for the growth Of the team around you um for my own personal development my personal growth it's more of a team dynamic where i can i have strengths and weaknesses other people have strengths and weaknesses, And we can work together through that. And so it's a very much a, a like one-on conversation or a group setting. And we, we really think through it, um, and push things out. And so because of that, I often refer to it as like, I'm always the second because I can push people up. Um, and I've always been that way. And I think that, um, even in lead positions or positions like that are very visible I can make them my own like you've noticed I'm not continuing the podcast um I'm uncomfortable in that Regard and I hope that when I learn more and understand more um that I could start something that would be just as communicative and just as like, I think more transparent in my own format, Um, that can be comfortable. But because of that, I just don't like that type of attention. I'm very accessible. I think that like, you would know if people reach me, I mean, you text me this morning, right? Like, I'm very reachable and I love to talk to folks. I just don't, um, I don't, uh, I don't see myself as the, that person. I see other people as that, that person. Yeah. Um, and I didn't, I just like, I like building stuff. I like building products. I like, I like shipping things. I like navigating through complex problems. Um, I really do think that like getting the team around you strong and comfortable is better than trying to lead tops down or trying to lead. ([Time 0:32:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5e41e501-ddc3-431d-8484-d69ee039e9df)) - **Showing Support** - Offer support and acknowledge team members' efforts. - Create a sense of being seen and valued for a positive team dynamic. Transcript: Michelle Frechette We do. Finally, I will say to you that our first meeting, I just like, I want to be her friend because you are just such a friendly, wonderful person to have conversations with. You reached out to me a couple weeks ago when I decided to go ahead and take on the role of co-release coordinator for 6.8. And you reached out and you're like, hey, I saw your name on the list. If there's anything you need, let me know. And I was like, that was a really nice touch. I felt seen and I felt supported. And I just wanted to say thank you for being the person that does that for team members. Mary Hubbard Oh, absolutely. It goes back to what it's just the, we need it. We're together. I think that that's the thing. This is a group thing and I do like to be helpful, but I'm very quick to be like, I don't know. Michelle Frechette Let me figure that one out. I don't know, but I'll get an answer for you is how I always answer. Yes. Mary Hubbard But I think one of the principles that I have of leadership in general is I thrive in context. I must understand why we're doing something. And I believe that if we share the context, even if it's harsh or unrealistic, whatever it is, where are the context of these decisions coming from and what is the ultimate vision, it Makes doing our day-to job so much easier. I can make quicker decisions. I can understand, and though I might not agree with certain things, I can understand it, and then I can prepare myself for how to navigate it. And I think a lot of that is how we navigate through building an educational team, growing our community, and what we're doing for the future of open source, when open source is in front Of everything today um just conversations in public and how we're talking to one another and talking about the future of it um context is going to be key where's michelle coming from With this why is she asking that right and it matters and i think and i always promote this too and deep deep down it's like when context is missing or you don't understand reach out ask And if you can't get a hold of somebody get a hold of me i'm very responsive i'm the world's best lurker that's i am here i am learning i'm reading i am answering um but i am i am available so If people do need to speak with me please do awesome ([Time 0:37:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/63c39d94-bab0-4402-a17e-84bbbc6cc8df))