PressConf Unplugged Podcasters Wrap-Up the Event

PressConf Unplugged: Podcasters Wrap-Up the Event 🔗 **Source:** [PressConf Unplugged: Podcasters Wrap-Up the Event](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSjOqu_te0c&t=1s) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: #wordpress #community #ai #business #agencies > author: PressConf > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSjOqu_te0c&t=1s > date created: 2024-12-19 10:00 > > # 🏷️ Title: PressConf Unplugged: Podcasters Wrap-Up the Event >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Evaluate AI impact on WordPress business models — declining sales require new strategies #ai #business - [H2] Strengthen agency partnerships for plugin distribution — bypass discovery issues #agencies #marketing - [H3] Develop clear decision-making frameworks — uncertainty requires faster pivots #strategy #planning ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [[#📝 Summary]] - [[#📖 Main Content]] - [[#🗒️ Notes]] - [[#📚 References]] - [[#🗣️ Paraphrase]] - [[#📰 Newsletter]] - [[#✅ Action Items]] - [[#🧪 Hypotheses]] - [[#📊 Methodology]] - [[#❓ Questions]] - [[#🔮 Future Research]] - [[#💡 Implications]] - [[#🧠 Learning Styles Assessment]] - [[#📊 Accessibility Assessment]] - [[#🌍 DEIB Assessment]] - [[#✅ Logical Validity]] - [[#🛡️ DARVO Analysis]] - [[#🎯 Conclusion]] ### 🔗 References - [PressConf Event](https://pressconf.io) - [WordPress.org Plugin Directory](https://wordpress.org/plugins/) ## 📝 Summary - Four WordPress professionals discuss challenges and opportunities facing the community - AI is creating both threats and opportunities for WordPress businesses - Agencies remain crucial partners for maintaining WordPress growth - Decision-making speed is critical in rapidly changing landscape - Community needs solutions, not just problem identification ## 📖 Main Content This panel discussion brings together three WordPress professionals to reflect on Press Forward conference insights. The conversation covers declining sales in plugin businesses, AI's dual role as threat and opportunity, the importance of agency partnerships, and strategies for navigating uncertainty. Participants share personal experiences with business pivots, culture building, and adaptation strategies while emphasizing the need for faster decision-making in a rapidly evolving ecosystem. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=0) — [H1] WordPress Foundation Discussion - Key idea: WordPress continues providing foundation for lifestyle businesses and careers - Evidence: "Katie, you shared how you built your lifestyle business thanks to WordPress" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=323) — [H2] Tough Decisions Ahead - Key idea: Making any decision is better than paralysis in current environment - Evidence: "I think it's just honestly just making a decision... there's a lot of decision points" #### ⏱️ [10:45](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=645) — [H1] Declining Plugin Sales Reality - Key idea: New sales declining due to AI competition and discovery changes - Evidence: "My new sales have been declining which I think is largely as a result of changes" #### ⏱️ [15:30](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=930) — [H2] WordPress vs Tool Mentality - Key idea: WordPress represents more than software due to community meaning - Evidence: "WordPress is more than the sum of its parts because of what it's come to represent" #### ⏱️ [20:15](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=1215) — [H1] AI Impact Assessment - Key idea: AI increases expectations and output requirements rather than eliminating jobs - Evidence: "The output expectation just got way higher... it created so many more jobs" #### ⏱️ [25:40](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=1540) — [H3] AI as Blessing and Curse - Key idea: AI threatens customer discovery while increasing operational efficiency - Evidence: "AI is a threat to customers being able to find my plugins, but... can massively increase our efficiency" #### ⏱️ [30:20](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=1820) — [H2] Flattened Playing Field Debate - Key idea: AI enables more competition but execution still matters - Evidence: "Throwing a plugin onto wordpress.org is not a competitor to an established product with good marketing" #### ⏱️ [35:10](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=2110) — [H1] When to Pivot Strategy - Key idea: Strategy must be living document with rapid iteration cycles - Evidence: "Strategy is very much a living thing... you need to pivot way before that" #### ⏱️ [40:25](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=2425) — [H2] CMS Choice Reality - Key idea: Customers care about job completion, not underlying CMS selection - Evidence: "No one cares about the CMS that they're choosing. They care that the job's getting done" #### ⏱️ [45:50](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=2750) — [H2] Agency Partnership Value - Key idea: Agencies serve as boots on ground for WordPress expansion - Evidence: "Agencies are like the extension of what web hosting companies offer" #### ⏱️ [50:30](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=3030) — [H3] Solution vs Problem Focus - Key idea: Conference identified problems without providing clear solutions - Evidence: "There's been more discussion on problems than solutions because it's a big challenge" #### ⏱️ [55:15](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=3315) — [H1] Culture Building Importance - Key idea: Core values drive hiring, firing, and team adaptation to change - Evidence: "We hire and fire based on those core values... we were adapting early to AI" #### ⏱️ [58:45](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=3525) — [H2] Action Items Post-Conference - Key idea: Simplification and collaboration emerge as key next steps - Evidence: "Simplify everything... being more open to collaboration again" ## 📚 References - [Barn2 Plugins](https://barn2.com/) - [Content Journey Agency](https://contentjourney.com/) - [Hostinger](https://hostinger.com/) - [Claude AI](https://claude.ai/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - WordPress continues serving as foundation for businesses despite uncertainty about future changes and market pressures - AI creates dual impact - threatening traditional discovery methods while enabling efficiency improvements for those who adapt quickly - Agencies remain critical partners for WordPress ecosystem growth, serving as informed intermediaries between hosting companies and end users ## 📰 Newsletter WordPress professionals gathered to discuss navigating uncertainty in our evolving ecosystem. Key takeaway: while AI and market changes create challenges, they also present opportunities for those who adapt quickly and maintain strong community partnerships. The discussion revealed that plugin sales are declining due to AI competition and changed discovery patterns, but successful businesses are using AI to increase efficiency and output. Agency partnerships emerge as crucial for bypassing discovery issues and maintaining WordPress market share. Action items include developing faster decision-making processes, strengthening agency relationships, and focusing on solutions rather than just identifying problems. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - Core: Improve plugin discovery mechanisms, address market competition - Community: Foster solution-focused discussions, strengthen agency partnerships - Marketing: Develop coordinated response to competitor advertising campaigns - Plugins: Support established developers facing AI competition #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Share adaptation strategies, host agency partnership workshops - Education: Create AI integration training, pivot strategy workshops - Developer experience: Improve discovery systems, streamline partnership processes #### Community - Maintainers: Facilitate solution-oriented discussions rather than problem identification - Contributors: Support agency onboarding, create partnership templates - Ecosystem: Coordinate response to competitive pressure from other platforms ## 🧪 Hypotheses - WordPress market share decline correlates with reduced investment in community marketing - Agency partnerships provide more sustainable customer acquisition than organic discovery - AI-first cultures adapt faster to ecosystem changes than traditional WordPress companies - Decision-making speed directly impacts business survival in current environment ### 📊 Methodology - Survey plugin developers about sales trends and customer acquisition changes - Track agency partnership success rates vs traditional marketing channels - Measure correlation between AI adoption and business resilience - Analyze decision-making cycles in successful vs struggling WordPress businesses ### ❓ Questions - How can WordPress coordinate marketing response to competitor Super Bowl campaigns? - What specific partnership models work best between plugin companies and agencies? - How should the community balance problem identification with solution development? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term impact of AI on WordPress job market and skill requirements - Effectiveness of different agency partnership structures for plugin distribution - Community decision-making processes and their impact on ecosystem health ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Faster decision-making cycles become competitive advantage - Policy: Community needs solution-focused rather than problem-focused discussions - Security: AI tools require careful vetting before business integration - Education: Training needed on agency partnership development and AI integration - Funding: Investment in coordinated marketing response to competitor pressure ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: Grade 12 #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: None - audio-only format - Improve: Add slides showing market trends, partnership models, decision frameworks #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full conversation with multiple perspectives - Improve: Chapter markers, topic-specific audio clips #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Rich discussion with examples and analogies - Improve: Glossary of terms, written summary of key points #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: None - discussion format - Improve: Action item checklists, partnership templates, decision-making worksheets #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Cause-effect discussions of market changes - Improve: Decision trees, business model comparisons, data visualizations #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Panel discussion format encourages engagement - Improve: Follow-up discussion prompts, community action groups #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection opportunities on business decisions - Improve: Self-assessment tools, personal action planning templates #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Ecosystem thinking about WordPress community - Improve: Market ecosystem diagrams, competitive landscape analysis ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Audio content is accessible to screen readers via transcript - Improve: Structured transcript with clear speaker labels and topic headers #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard video player controls - Improve: Timestamp navigation, chapter skipping functionality #### Contrast and readability - Present: Not applicable to audio content - Improve: High contrast transcript presentation #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Transcript can be resized - Improve: Responsive transcript layout with zoom support #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript available - Improve: Time-synced captions, speaker identification, downloadable formats #### Forms and interactions - Present: Basic video controls - Improve: Accessible playback speed controls, bookmark functionality ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: US-focused WordPress community perspective - Improve: Include global agency experiences, international market perspectives #### Inclusive language - Present: Professional business discussion - Improve: Define technical jargon, avoid insider assumptions #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Conversational format may be challenging to follow - Improve: Clear topic transitions, structured agenda, visual aids #### Representation - Present: Three women panelists, diverse business perspectives - Improve: Include more geographic diversity, different business sizes #### Psychological safety - Present: Respectful discussion of business challenges - Improve: Content warnings about business stress topics ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear logic connecting AI adoption to business outcomes - Inductive strength: Personal experiences support broader market trend claims - Causal reasoning: Links between discovery changes and sales decline well-established - Analogical strength: Business adaptation comparisons to past technology changes #### Fallacies - Survivorship bias: Focus on successful adaptation may miss failed businesses - Hasty generalization: Limited sample size for broad ecosystem conclusions #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Professional, collaborative, solution-oriented with honest vulnerability about challenges ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No denial patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on community members or competitors - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversals noted - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Honest discussion of fears balanced with practical optimism ## 🎯 Conclusion The WordPress community faces real challenges from AI competition and changing market dynamics, but adaptation through faster decision-making, stronger agency partnerships, and AI integration offers paths forward. The key insight is balancing honest assessment of problems with active solution development, while maintaining the community values that make WordPress more than just software. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad Purpose: Stage CEE units that become Literature notes. Split level: H3 ### [H1] WordPress businesses face declining sales from AI competition > [!quote] PressConf Unplugged: Podcasters Wrap-Up the Event by PressConf via YouTube. Published 2024. Accessed 2024-12-19. > "My new sales have been declining which I think is largely as a result of changes in the way people are finding WordPress products and also in what sorts of things people are using AI for which might compete with certain types of products." Plugin developers report measurable sales declines attributed to AI competition and discovery pattern changes. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=645#H1) #xref #articleseed ID:rw_001 ### [H2] Agency partnerships bypass WordPress discovery issues > [!quote] PressConf Unplugged by PressConf > "I think that is a way for product companies to remain strong into the future because if you have strong partnerships with agencies who will regularly use your products, that completely bypasses the changes we're seeing in discoverability." Direct partnerships with agencies provide alternative distribution channel avoiding organic discovery problems. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/pSjOqu_te0c?t=2750#H2) #xref ID:rw_002 --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) Purpose: Promote reusable claims into Atomic notes. Split level: H4 #### [Z1] Strategy requires living document approach in fast-changing markets - Applies to technology businesses facing AI disruption - Referenced at 35:10 timestamp - Links: [[Business-Strategy]] [[Change-Management]] #### [Z2] Community problems need solution focus not just identification - Relevant to open source project governance - Referenced at 50:30 timestamp - Links: [[Community-Management]] [[Problem-Solving]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue Purpose: Capture quick actions for Fleeting notes. - [F1] Research agency partnership models for plugin companies — Katie's insight #fleeting #business - [F2] Document decision-making frameworks for rapid change — Emma's strategy advice #fleeting #planning - [F3] Analyze WordPress vs competitor marketing spend gap — Lindsay's observation #fleeting #marketing --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] You can do it, Brian. [00:01] >> [laughter] [00:03] >> Thank you. Thank you. We're good, right? [00:04] We're rolling, we're recording. [00:06] Christian, [00:07] thumbs up. All right, great. [00:09] Welcome everyone. Big round of applause. [00:11] Great event. If you're having some [00:12] excitement and fun, let's let's hear it. [00:14] Let's give [applause] it up. [00:18] Three wonderful women on the stage with [00:21] me today to recap [00:23] one of our favorite events in Arizona [00:26] every year. The best WordPress event to [00:29] happen in Arizona. [00:33] >> [laughter] [00:35] >> Clap, Devin. Clap. [00:37] >> [laughter] [00:39] >> So, the word the word of the event was [00:42] clarity [00:43] is clarity. [00:45] Though I'm feeling a bit of [00:47] uncertainty. I want to unpack a little [00:49] bit [00:51] on stage today. [00:52] I'm going to share some of my feelings a [00:54] little bit and [00:55] see if the sentiment sticks or we can [00:59] dissect it here on stage. [01:01] For me and for a lot of people, I feel [01:03] like WordPress was the foundation for a [01:06] lot of things in our lives. [01:08] Katie, you shared how you built your [01:10] lifestyle business thanks to WordPress. [01:14] Lindsey, you have a marketing career and [01:17] an agency thanks to WordPress. [01:20] And we have [01:23] I know you're not running a business, [01:25] Emma, but [01:26] you have a career in WordPress, right? [01:28] Helping WordPress hosting companies SEO [01:31] and so and so forth. [01:34] Do you think we still have that these [01:36] days? Do you think WordPress still [01:37] provides that for us and folks like us? [01:42] Lindsey, I'm going to give it to you [01:43] first. [01:44] Absolutely. [01:46] I work in WordPress every single day. My [01:48] content marketing agency, like we have [01:51] very active clients that come in and [01:54] most of them are built on WordPress. [01:56] Sure, at the end of the day some of them [01:57] don't know that or care about that, [02:00] but it allows me to do the work that I [02:01] do. So, yes, for sure. [02:04] Katie? [02:05] Yeah, we absolutely still have that [02:07] today. [02:08] The question which I think we'll get to [02:09] in a minute is how long is that going to [02:12] continue and are there any changes we're [02:13] going to make? But definitely we have [02:16] that now. We're all here now and things [02:19] are good right now. [02:22] Emma? [02:23] Yeah, I think I agree with [02:25] what's been said. I think it's also just [02:27] important to like realize the direction [02:29] that we're going in and how to adapt and [02:32] to make sure that it's not going in the [02:33] other direction and that we keep growing [02:36] cuz it always cuz even for our bigger [02:38] companies like web hosting's [02:40] perspective, it is still 50% of [02:43] everything that we do. Just keeping it [02:45] there. [02:48] A lot of talks sort of it felt a little [02:50] bit of a roller coaster ride for me this [02:53] year, right? There was a lot of a little [02:55] bit of a tug of war, I think from, you [02:57] know, where we feel the WordPress [02:59] community is, where WordPress software [03:01] is, where WooCommerce is, where AI is [03:03] coming into this stuff. [03:05] And what I'm wondering after hearing all [03:08] of these talks, [03:10] what do you think the toughest decisions [03:12] we have to make right now to continue [03:15] the stuff we just talked about, right? [03:16] And like how we continue to WordPress to [03:18] go. [03:19] Emma, I'm going to kick it to you first. [03:20] So, what are the toughest decisions we [03:22] have to make or maybe specifically in [03:24] your position and then we'll go down the [03:26] line. [03:27] I think it's just honestly just making a [03:29] decision. [03:30] >> [laughter] [03:30] >> Like [03:31] I don't know if this is me or [03:34] Is it me or you? I don't know. I [03:36] [laughter] have no idea. It's all of us. [03:37] Okay. [03:38] Yeah, like making a decision. I it's me. [03:42] No, it's not. It's you. [03:44] >> [laughter] [03:45] >> I'll do this. [03:45] >> Okay, all right. [03:47] But yeah, I think like making an actual [03:49] That's me. Okay. I'm making a decision [03:51] is really important. [laughter] [03:54] You were very indecisive about that. [03:55] Yeah, and [03:57] I think like like the past couple of [03:59] days have [04:01] surfaced a lot of things that we want a [04:03] decision on and there's definitely a [04:05] through line between like everything [04:08] that has been said. None of us talked to [04:10] each other before we we decided like [04:12] what we were going to talk about or what [04:14] we were going to present, [04:15] but there's connections and a and a [04:17] theme without even knowing that the [04:18] theme was like clarity or anything like [04:20] that. And I think there is [04:23] a lot of decision points and so there's [04:25] a lot of things that were surfaced [04:27] throughout the last 48 hours, but I [04:29] actually don't feel like there was a lot [04:31] of action points or any things that we [04:34] like maybe even just a simple as like a [04:36] list of things that we need to make a [04:37] decision on. [04:39] So, I would did you mean just say like [04:40] starting there because I can actually [04:41] answer that question of what we need to [04:43] make a decision on because so many [04:44] things were touched upon the last couple [04:46] of days. [04:47] Very good. Katie? [04:49] Yeah, for me I've got some big decisions [04:52] to make. I shared that my new sales have [04:55] been declining which I think is largely [04:57] as a result of changes in the way people [05:00] are finding WordPress products and also [05:03] in what sorts of things people are using [05:06] AI for which might compete with certain [05:08] types of products. So, I've got some big [05:10] decisions to make about whether my [05:12] current plan to adapt to that is [05:14] sufficient, but also in a positive sense [05:17] whenever you go to an event like this, [05:18] you come away with lots of new ideas [05:21] that you could implement. I often think [05:23] big things like new product ideas that [05:25] your head is spinning when you go away [05:27] thinking is it an opportunity? Is it a [05:29] distraction? And that's always nice [05:31] decisions I suppose or nice problems to [05:33] have. [05:35] I think that what I heard many of the [05:38] other speakers and in the hallway and [05:40] you know, from these ladies up here as [05:42] well is just saying like we definitely [05:44] have change. Change is here. We're [05:47] facing it. We've been facing it. As [05:49] entrepreneurs and as business owners, [05:52] isn't that always what we've done, [05:54] right? And so it's just part of that [05:57] piece of like we can't ever just like [06:00] stay stuck. Like this is what I do. My [06:02] skill is only this thing. That's not [06:05] true, right? Like we have skills that [06:08] are platform agnostic really. [06:12] And so as long as we're out there like [06:14] what Matt Cromwell was saying, serving [06:15] the customers that are still coming to [06:18] us willing to pay for services or [06:20] products or our expertise in all of [06:23] those ways, then everything gets to [06:25] thrive the way that we want it to. [06:27] Like I said, my customers don't [06:28] necessarily know that we're using [06:29] WordPress. It's what I prefer. It's what [06:31] I'm comfortable and so when we get that [06:33] choice, that's what I'm using. And so as [06:37] long as I'm doing my job, then that part [06:41] of my business that does involve the [06:43] CMS, you know, continues to thrive. I [06:46] want to stay talking about making the [06:48] decision, making a decision, any [06:51] decision [06:51] >> [laughter] [06:52] >> you know, with this stuff. [06:54] I'm going to go to Katie first, but one [06:56] of the you know, one of my character [06:58] flaws if folks in the room haven't [07:00] figured that out yet is I'm a die hard [07:02] WordPress person. Like I'm I'm here [07:04] because I I love WordPress, whatever [07:06] that means to you [07:07] and whatever it means to me. A lot of [07:10] folks have said it's just a tool, it's [07:12] just a piece of software, we move on. [07:15] Katie, do you think that moving forward [07:17] after what you experienced here at [07:19] PressCamp [07:20] that WordPress is just a tool? Is it [07:23] important to build community around? [07:26] Does it help to build culture around [07:27] WordPress in your own organization? How [07:30] do you make the decision of whether or [07:32] not you invest [07:34] mentally, spiritually in WordPress [07:37] moving forward? [07:39] That is something I've been reflecting [07:41] on more and more lately. WordPress is [07:44] more than the sum of its parts because [07:46] of what it's come to represent and its [07:49] meaning to us is way more than actually [07:51] the software. And I think most people [07:54] would agree that maybe if it's just the [07:56] software, we don't love it that much. We [07:58] think it's maybe all the things that [08:00] have been said throughout the last two [08:01] days about how it could be modernized [08:03] and so on. And yet we do all love it [08:06] because of what it represents to us and [08:08] the community around it. So, really it's [08:11] we it's a bit reductionist to just think [08:13] of it as a piece of software. Yeah. [08:15] Emma, in an organization your size, it's [08:18] very easy for I mean, hosting companies [08:20] need to make sometimes real tough [08:22] decisions on whether or not to invest in [08:24] a piece of software cuz it's either not [08:26] working in the market or it's not cost [08:27] effective. Do you feel [08:30] I guess the better question might be how [08:32] do you keep an organization the size of [08:34] hosting or rallying around WordPress as [08:37] best as you can to keep it going? I used [08:39] to joke that there was like a lot of [08:41] evangelism and lobbying from my side [08:43] that I was like I'm like a lobbyist [08:45] trying to get everybody at Hostinger to [08:47] be part of WordPress, but at the end of [08:49] the day it was just true, you know, like [08:51] if you have a few people that truly [08:53] believe in this community, you can lobby [08:56] a good clan around it and [08:59] you can basically [09:01] like prove your ROI without dollar [09:04] signs. It's hard, but if you can prove [09:06] that in some other way and like the way [09:08] that you tell like where you you are [09:11] getting that value, it's totally doable. [09:14] I think where where it starts from is [09:15] the person that's doing it. Like if the [09:17] person is just doing it because somebody [09:18] told them to do it, tough I don't [09:21] know if I [laughter] can say that. [09:24] But if the person is like [09:25] [clears throat] [09:26] really cares about the community, then [09:28] it's actually a lot easier than than you [09:29] think. Yeah. And Lindsey, agency owners, [09:32] freelancers, we have to make the [09:34] decision whether or not we continue to [09:36] invest in WordPress, whether it makes [09:38] sense for the business. We'll talk about [09:39] AI in a second. [09:41] But how do you make that hard decision [09:43] of continuing to invest in it? It's [09:45] interesting for me because I have a dual [09:47] perspective, right? Like of the 16 years [09:49] in WordPress, 10 of that I was the [09:51] spouse of someone who owned a plugin [09:53] company. [09:54] >> [laughter] [09:55] >> Right? You you might have heard of Corey [09:57] Miller. And so [09:59] um I do have like a little bit of that [10:01] dual brain where obviously Corey spent [10:05] many years and his team investing in the [10:07] community and like participating in part [10:09] of it and like the whole t-shirt swag [10:12] stuff that like everybody was wearing [10:13] all of just those WordPress slogans, [10:15] right? Um but then on the other side of [10:18] that with my agency and my team not all [10:22] of none of I would say actually none of [10:24] my team have ever been to a WordCamp. [10:26] Like ever. [10:28] Um and they know I like WordPress. They [10:29] know that's like what I prefer. And so I [10:33] think that's where it is, right? Like I [10:35] see a lot of the lowercase P people, [10:38] right? And so I have it in my brain like [10:40] look, you don't know how to spell [10:42] WordPress, you don't know what the hell [10:43] you're talking about. Um and yet like [10:46] their their companies are just as [10:48] important as the capital P companies, [10:51] right? And so for me as an agency owner, [10:55] freelancer, and the people that live in [10:56] that world, um it's important just cuz [10:58] I'm comfortable with it and like I get [11:00] my team there. But again, we don't turn [11:02] clients away that don't want WordPress. [11:06] Cuz like [11:07] we're just trying to help them succeed. [11:09] I don't know if I really got to the crux [11:11] of that, Matt, but yeah. [11:13] >> I I want to pivot just a touch and talk [11:15] about uh AI. Uh AI competency this year [11:18] feels like we're all up, right? It feels [11:20] like we're all pretty good with AI this [11:22] year judging by some of the faces [11:25] looking at me right now. Last year at [11:26] Press Forward felt like we're all scared [11:28] shitless what was going to happen uh [11:30] with AI. Um [11:33] Emma, I want to start with you because I [11:35] feel like AI directly impacts the things [11:38] that you're probably accountable for at [11:40] at Hostinger. Um how do you and this is [11:44] more of like a more like brutally [11:46] honest, you know, feedback if you if you [11:48] could. [11:50] How do you face [11:52] AI taking the job, like losing the job [11:55] to AI? How how do you wrestle with that? [11:58] Hopefully your bosses are not here, but [12:01] >> [laughter] [12:01] >> how do you wrestle with the fact when [12:02] the boss wants efficiency, wants to push [12:04] into AI? How do you wrestle with that? [12:07] So I think I got very lucky being in an [12:10] AI-driven company. Uh that was just like [12:13] luck number one. [12:15] Uh because when it first came out, there [12:17] was definitely a lot of pushback. Like [12:19] the mindset for especially content [12:21] creators and just creative people in [12:22] general, they're like oh like I'm [12:24] going to lose my job, like this AI is [12:26] going to take it, but then if you work [12:28] on more of like the growth mindset [12:29] behind that, it's like look at [12:30] Grammarly. Like it doesn't mean that you [12:32] can't spell anything anymore. Maybe we [12:34] we we spell a little [12:37] not as well as we used to, but like uh [12:39] there's all these tools that just kind [12:40] of became like businesses usual. So [12:42] working on that first was kind of what [12:44] made the biggest thing, but I would I [12:46] would say that it didn't actually, at [12:48] least from my personal experience, [12:49] didn't actually um remove a lot of jobs. [12:53] Like I just think the output was an [12:55] expectation just got like way the [12:58] higher. Um and and actually in a weird [13:01] sense, it created so many more jobs cuz [13:03] we have like a chief AI officer. We have [13:05] all these AI squads. We have like these [13:07] people that are working just on AI [13:08] products. So in that sense, um I think [13:11] all these fears were very much like [13:14] yeah, I get it. Like I was feeling the [13:15] same thing. Like crap, am I going to [13:17] have to cut half my team? But I didn't [13:18] end up letting anybody go. There was no [13:20] jobs that were redundant. Just the the [13:22] scope kind of changed a little bit, but [13:24] I think just having that conversation [13:26] and getting it all on the table was the [13:27] most important thing at the at the start [13:29] of it all. And now we have like not just [13:32] AI not just um editors, but like AI [13:35] editors and they have almost an [13:36] additional job for that now. So I [13:38] actually think it worked out better for [13:40] us. [13:40] >> Yeah. [13:41] Katie, you're constantly like looking at [13:43] the crosshairs of AI. Either people [13:46] making plugins like you make uh or AI [13:49] answering support before they even reach [13:52] out to you or maybe even recommending [13:53] competitors. Um what's your how do you [13:57] unpack the the fear if at all with AI in [14:00] your business? Do you have, you know, [14:02] after this event, after hearing what [14:03] other folks have said at Press Forward [14:05] 2026, do you go back home and have a new [14:08] strategy uh based on what you heard or [14:10] has it changed at all how you approach [14:12] AI in your business? [14:14] My approach to AI in my business has [14:16] changed hugely in the last month. Uh so [14:19] I don't I'm not going to attribute that [14:21] to Press Forward, but it has changed a [14:22] lot recently. I'm as I mentioned [14:25] earlier, AI is a threat to customers [14:28] being able to find my plugins, but I'm [14:31] also trying to view it as an opportunity [14:33] in that it can massively increase our [14:35] efficiency so that we can get a huge [14:38] amount done for the same or fewer [14:40] resources and therefore hopefully combat [14:43] the reduction by using AI to our [14:45] advantage. So I'm kind of seeing it as a [14:48] blessing and a curse in that sense. [14:50] >> Yeah. [14:51] And Lindsay, we all know what we hear in [14:53] agency life or freelance life, your [14:55] clients are going to start sending you, [14:57] you know, Claude created landing pages [14:59] and they say just do this for me. Like I [15:01] I made this, just do this. Or blog copy [15:03] and stuff like that. Have you had any [15:06] moments that have changed your thinking [15:09] about that through this event? So, you [15:11] know, Vito I don't know if Vito's here [15:13] still. Um but like, you know, Bertha [15:16] four or five years ago, um we started [15:18] implementing those tools very early. Um [15:22] and I don't know why. Like it just was I [15:24] started hearing about it and I thought, [15:26] oh, that's cool. And so we've been using [15:28] AI back then at Content Journey um since [15:32] 2020, right? Um bad writers were [15:34] replaced really quickly, right? So like [15:36] exactly like what Emma said, like they [15:39] like bad writers have been gone for a [15:40] really long time. Uh do you guys [15:42] remember like those penny a word sites [15:44] that you could go to, right? Like AI [15:46] replaced those people real fast. Um and [15:49] so yeah, and bringing people in that [15:50] were like really strong editors was a [15:53] piece of that. And then as soon as it [15:55] started getting more mainstream, cuz we [15:57] didn't advertise that like all of a [16:00] sudden content outlines were getting [16:02] created by AI. We just like all of a [16:04] sudden I was getting to keep more of [16:05] that like margin, right? Um and so but [16:10] yeah, after people started hearing about [16:11] it, they're like, why can't you just use [16:12] AI? And so there is like an education [16:14] component to that. We do a lot of like [16:16] finance, health and wellness, like [16:19] things that do need like human [16:21] interaction with it. Um and I've [16:23] purposely stayed within those niches [16:26] because of that. Um legal things for [16:28] example, right? Like you can't [16:29] [clears throat] just go to any kind of [16:32] AI at this point without having that [16:35] checks and balances. So they'll ask we [16:37] don't care. We just want it to be [16:38] straight AI and straight AI. And it's [16:40] like, okay, we can do that. Sure, like [16:43] we'll help you lower that cost on it and [16:45] here's what that means. [16:47] >> Um and most of the time with my [16:50] intervention, we can like work it out. [16:52] And then at at the end of the day, if [16:53] they just want straight AI AI, like [16:55] that's their choice. [16:56] >> Yeah. Yeah. [16:57] I want to stay on AI for just one more [16:59] question. Um It's it it's I'll let [17:02] somebody take this one. I won't point [17:04] anyone out at right off right off the [17:06] rip. Um but does AI flatten the playing [17:09] field and how do we feel about that? I [17:11] mean, it's sort of what we kind of just [17:12] talked about. I'll just give you a quick [17:13] example. Uh friend of mine, not [17:16] technical at all, knocked on my door, [17:18] well, sent me a text message the other [17:19] day and he was like, I'm starting an app [17:21] company. And I'm like, bro, you don't [17:23] know the first thing of like delivering [17:26] software, delivering a customer [17:27] experience, and all that fun stuff. Um [17:30] but it that's when it started to dawn on [17:32] me [17:34] more immediately that it's starting to [17:36] flatten the playing field maybe just a [17:39] little bit. And maybe it's a a hype [17:40] cycle, maybe these things crop up and [17:42] people get exhausted for that about [17:44] trying to run these things, or maybe the [17:45] cost of AI does go up and these folks [17:47] sort of uh fall off the wayside. But do [17:50] you feel like it's easier to have a [17:53] competitor now? Do you feel like AI does [17:55] flatten the playing field a little bit? [17:58] And does anybody have any thoughts on [17:59] that or I can just move on? Um I have a [18:01] view on the product side of things. [18:03] There are loads of people are suddenly [18:05] releasing new plugins particularly. I I [18:08] don't have the exact stats, but there [18:10] are lots of stats being thrown around [18:11] about the sheer number that are being [18:13] submitted to wordpress.org more than any [18:16] time in history and that is largely [18:18] because people are using AI to build [18:19] plugins. [18:21] But [18:22] the successful plugin is not just about [18:23] the code, it's about the execution, the [18:25] marketing, and all of the things that go [18:27] around it. And so I don't really see [18:29] that as a threat at all because throwing [18:32] a plugin onto either your own website or [18:34] wordpress.org is not a competitor to an [18:37] established product with good marketing, [18:39] etc. [18:40] >> Yeah. Yeah. [18:41] Um I think it's like I didn't know what [18:44] I was doing when I launched my business. [18:45] >> [laughter] [18:46] >> Cuz I think your friend's like, oh yeah, [18:47] I got an app and I'm going to launch a [18:48] business. Um turns out I didn't either. [18:51] Like honestly, um and I yeah, I don't [18:55] know. So I think that's part of like [18:57] entrepreneurship like at its heart is [19:00] like you have an idea and you believe in [19:01] something and you go build it and you go [19:03] to try to find your customers. And like [19:05] I think that's the coolest thing about [19:07] like having that opportunity and the [19:09] freedom to do it. And sure, like most [19:12] startups fail, but like isn't it fun to [19:15] try? Yeah. Yeah. [19:18] And just from my personal opinion, like [19:20] I don't think it leveled the playing [19:22] field, but uh I am like a glass half [19:24] full type person and I think it just [19:26] actually gave a lot more opportunities [19:28] to maybe people that never had them or [19:29] had a much harder chance. So like vibe [19:32] coding, yeah, maybe some kids somewhere [19:34] that maybe wouldn't have gotten the shot [19:36] that they had can now vibe code [19:38] something. And then they have to deal [19:39] with all the stuff that the other lady [19:40] said, but uh at least they're they're [19:42] they're shooting it and putting it out [19:44] there. Um so in that sense, I think it's [19:46] it's very good. But then at the other [19:48] side, also what Katie was saying is like [19:51] there's so much AI, like a noise out [19:53] there that you have like this [19:55] competition against something that [19:56] doesn't even make sense. Robbie and I [19:58] were looking at something. It was like [20:00] Miro's, I don't know. It was some cool [20:02] like AI looking thing. Then when we went [20:04] to the site, it was just crap and it was [20:07] just like [20:08] like linked to some fishing things and [20:10] we were like, "Man, like the but this is [20:11] what's popping up." And you think like, [20:13] "Oh, this was like coded. This is giving [20:15] somebody an opportunity." And you click [20:16] to it and it's just fish bait. So, [20:17] there's like all of this that you have [20:19] to maneuver around, which gives [20:20] everything else that's actually being [20:22] created well like a bad name. Yeah. [20:25] When to pivot? That's the question. I'll [20:29] paint the lines for you. [20:30] >> [laughter] [20:31] >> Um we talked about uh Lindsay, you [20:33] talked about death in your presentation, [20:36] but also about life. Yes. Uh but it made [20:38] me think about uh I posed a question, [20:40] what you know, what does WordPress look [20:42] like at 20% sort of just trying to paint [20:45] the picture that what happens if it does [20:47] shrink and you kind of shrinking thanks [20:49] to some of Ray's research at the [20:50] repository. But I want to talk about [20:53] like knowing when to pivot, when to [20:55] change direction. It's either pivoting [20:57] the whole business or pivoting a a [20:59] campaign, right, for SEO. Like when do [21:02] you um and Emma, I'm going to go to you. [21:04] When do you [21:06] go through a project or a campaign or a [21:08] business and go, "I've had enough. It's [21:11] time to pivot." What's your advice? [21:14] Well, I think like strategy is very much [21:16] a living thing. Like I think maybe [21:18] that's where everyone gets it wrong. [21:19] It's like, "Oh, I'm making a strategy [21:20] for 3 years or 1 year and I got to stick [21:22] to it." But like that's a load of crap. [21:24] Uh and so I think that's the first thing [21:26] that you have to do before you can even [21:27] pivot. So, then like I I would say like [21:30] recently from my personal experience is [21:32] like uh we're seeing the landscape [21:34] change so much uh [21:36] um like I forgot um but somebody was [21:38] saying like every 6 months something is [21:40] different now. And so I would say you [21:42] need to pivot way before that. But you [21:44] also need to reconsider not just a [21:46] pivot, but is the the the timeline and [21:49] like what your actual production road [21:51] map is is that the correct order? It's [21:53] maybe bigger than a pivot. So, like [21:55] things that we were doing last year, [21:57] we've completely flip-flopped. And I I [21:59] would love to call that a pivot, but it [22:00] was more like 180, you know, like [22:02] putting SEO the informant not as the [22:04] plus one or the enabler. And like [22:07] everything's changed. So, [22:09] uh like I think like just starting with [22:10] whatever you believe is successful [22:12] enough like and however much [22:15] uh [22:15] percentage of whatever makes you happy [22:18] that you're going in the right direction [22:19] whatever it is, 70%, 100%, decide that. [22:23] And then give yourself a time frame that [22:24] makes sense for that whatever it is that [22:26] you're working on and then just make a [22:28] decision quick and then move on. Like uh [22:30] so, we've completely switched like the [22:32] way that at least from my my team's like [22:34] how we do socials, how we do outward [22:36] facing content. [22:37] Uh and we release a lot of stuff and [22:39] we're like, "Yeah, 60%. Okay, let's go [22:41] big on that then." It's never going to [22:42] be 100%. Maybe that's the the thing I [22:44] can say is like pivot fast because [22:47] you're never I can 100% say that you're [22:50] never going to hit 100% like clarity. [22:52] Yeah. [22:53] Katie, you're a prolific tweeter. Uh you [22:56] have the Shopify Diaries, I think it's [22:57] called the series. Uh it's almost a [22:59] year's worth or more now at this point, [23:01] right? [23:02] >> It'll be 365 next week right before [23:04] checkout summit. So, so definitely [23:06] follow that if you don't follow Katie on [23:08] Twitter already. Um is that the pivot [23:11] for you? What does the pivot look like [23:12] and and when do you know it it's time to [23:14] either continue with Shopify, lean more [23:17] into Shopify, or is it something else? [23:20] Um I was speaking to a very wise [23:22] business consultant, Claude. [23:25] >> [laughter] [23:26] >> As you do. [clears throat] [23:27] About what to do about the decline in my [23:29] sales and different possibilities, [23:32] strategies, and so on. And it made the [23:35] point that in terms of continuing to [23:38] work on my existing products, [23:40] uh it wasn't that I shouldn't do that, [23:42] but I needed to be aware that I was [23:44] throwing a product solution at a market [23:46] problem. Which is actually fair because [23:50] if we are still just focusing on the [23:51] same marketing strategies that used to [23:53] work that aren't working so well now, [23:56] then making our products even better [23:58] isn't actually going to turn things [24:01] around. So, I am focusing on improving [24:03] my main products, but I think that is [24:05] actually quite good advice that we need [24:07] to be thinking wider. [24:09] So, yeah, I need to keep going in the [24:10] Shopify direction until I've done enough [24:12] to know if it will be a success. It's [24:14] still too early. Um I'm also after Press [24:17] Nom thinking about other WordPress ideas [24:20] which um occurred to me during the [24:22] conference through people I've spoken to [24:24] and things. So, yeah, I think the time [24:26] to pivot is the time that it becomes [24:28] clear that your current strategy isn't [24:30] the best way forward. [24:32] Lindsay, on the pivot. Yeah. Um you [24:35] know, as a young marketer, everything [24:37] was instinct. And I still think [24:39] marketing is so much of instinct just [24:41] like going with your gut on when to try [24:43] something new and when not to. But I was [24:45] immediately reminded of a client [24:47] conversation that I had literally 2 [24:48] weeks ago who wanted to try out ads. And [24:52] they were like, "Let's see what happens [24:53] after 4 days and we can go from there." [24:56] And I was like, "I'm so glad that I have [24:58] like grown a little bit in this to say [25:01] like you've got to give it time. And [25:03] data really is the answer. And I think [25:06] that for for me, and I see this like [25:08] with Katie particularly, is like she [25:11] knows the data of her business, right? [25:13] And so I think that you have to know [25:15] those numbers. And so many times as [25:18] business owners or even marketers within [25:20] a company is we don't really know the [25:23] numbers. We don't know how many people [25:25] are visiting our site and those [25:26] conversion rates and what all of that [25:29] means. And I think that as much as I [25:32] love to be like go with an an instinct, [25:34] um it really is like know the data, own [25:37] the data, be incredibly relentless about [25:41] knowing all of those numbers, and then [25:43] that should lead you, right? [25:46] Um and I think that's what, you know, [25:47] I'm I'm glad that I have maturity with [25:49] that now and can counsel people on those [25:51] pieces. Okay. Lindsay, I'm going to be [25:52] coming back to you. [25:53] >> Okay. Uh [25:54] I'm ready. [25:55] >> Uh but I asked the ladies on stage uh to [25:57] reflect on a question uh through the [25:59] event after listening to all the talks [26:01] and and chatting with you all to [26:03] understand what was happening. Lindsay [26:05] said, [snorts] "Matt, no one cares about [26:07] the CMS uh that they're that they're [26:09] choosing." Um [26:11] that was 25 minutes, right? Not 5 [26:12] minutes? Yeah, I think it's okay. 25 [26:15] minutes, okay. Um [26:17] Matt, no one cares about the CMS that [26:19] they're that they're choosing. Uh they [26:21] care that the job's getting done. Uh and [26:22] if they do care, it's probably because [26:24] they saw an ad uh on a Super Bowl or [26:26] like there's another CMS marketing much [26:29] better uh than WordPress. Um [26:33] you said like you felt the agencies are [26:36] the ones standing kind of alone on this, [26:38] right? And I I think when we look about [26:41] taking action in the WordPress [26:42] community, especially as agencies, [26:45] that's an opportunity, right, to come [26:47] together and and help promote the the [26:49] the project. Yeah. Absolutely. Again, [26:51] like as a marketer at heart, if I go to [26:53] one more Super Bowl party and see like [26:56] Squarespace or whoever else like with a [26:58] Super Bowl commercial and like I'm over [26:59] there as like this WordPress person with [27:01] a crown on my head, um I'm like so done [27:04] with that. And I and I feel like I come [27:06] against that in client conversations is [27:09] they hear it on the podcast commercial [27:12] or the billboard or wherever else where [27:14] like these other ecosystems are [27:18] supporting their brand. And instead like [27:21] WordPress is a lot of us out there. [27:24] Yeah, standing against it and be like, [27:26] "No, this is the choice and this is [27:27] why." And a great example of that is [27:31] like I said, we're in finance. So, I [27:33] have a client, we didn't do their [27:34] website. We do not do their website [27:36] hosting cuz they're like, "We have to [27:38] make sure this is so secure. It is so [27:40] important." I'm like, "Okay, get it." [27:41] But it's on WordPress, right? And [27:42] they're like, "Yeah." I'm like, "All [27:43] right." We've worked with them for 5 [27:45] years. They get hacked last week. Um and [27:48] I had never dug into their site. We've [27:51] just done their marketing work, right? [27:53] And turns out that they were with an IT [27:55] company that had them at WP Engine, [27:57] right? And I was like, "Oh my god." [27:59] They're paying them like $1,500 a month, [28:00] by the way, [28:01] um to host at WP Engine. And so, uh we [28:05] had to like go like conversation about [28:08] like what that meant. And so, that [28:09] agency over there never mentioned [28:12] WordPress. They didn't know they were on [28:13] WordPress. And they had made them think [28:15] that they were on some like bespoke [28:17] server. Like I don't know, in their [28:18] garage or something. I'm not sure. I I [28:20] have bad feelings towards this agency [28:21] right now. Um and Emma started calling [28:24] people at WP Engine, by the way, to be [28:26] like, "Hey, can you all help these these [28:28] these guys?" [28:29] Um but anyway. And so, and and cuz I [28:31] think that comes down to it is like they [28:33] were able to sell this like super secure [28:36] hosting security environment. And they [28:38] were just like on a WP Engine server for [28:41] like $1,500 a month. And because at the [28:44] end of the day, the clients didn't care [28:45] about where it was. They just wanted to [28:47] know that it was taken care of, right? [28:50] Yeah. Yeah. Emma, I'm going to go to [28:51] you. This is a softball question, but [28:53] I'm going to stay on the topic of [28:55] agencies and why it's so important for [28:57] you to build relationships or maybe your [28:59] team to build relationships with [29:01] agencies. Do you feel like we're [29:04] I say we. I'm not an agency anymore, but [29:05] do you feel like agencies are really [29:07] boots on the ground to help expand [29:09] WordPress? And if so, how do you try to [29:12] help? [29:13] Yeah, actually um actually most of the [29:15] time at conferences in general, I like [29:17] to speak to agency owners because uh [29:19] they are like the extension of what uh [29:22] web hosting companies offer. And if you [29:24] have a bad rep and you have a bad [29:26] reputation and you promise all these [29:27] things like there's going to be all [29:29] these little, you know, [29:31] fingers, I guess, like uh not uh [29:33] pointing in your direction. So, for me, [29:36] agencies are like the bit the best [29:38] informants. They can tell you like what [29:40] the clients want, what they don't want, [29:42] and then what they want like to to make [29:44] them want to use you. So, without them, [29:46] like [29:47] uh [29:48] I don't think like web hosting companies [29:49] would be as successful as they are. [29:51] Yeah. [29:52] Katie, I'm sure it's always, uh, a [29:54] battle for agency owners to come to you [29:56] and maybe demand more, maybe demand more [29:58] in support. How do you think about, and [30:01] oftentimes like, as a, again, former [30:03] agency owner, former plugin maker many [30:06] years ago, uh, I often toyed with the [30:08] idea of like, "Well, maybe I'll have a [30:09] premium license for agencies. They pay [30:11] more, but they get more, either support [30:14] or something like that." Is there an [30:15] opportunity these days to partner with [30:18] agencies more so that they can help [30:21] either just distribute your your [30:23] products or help with WordPress? How how [30:25] do you see agencies at Barn2? [30:28] We've never [30:29] particularly focused on that because in [30:31] the past we've been so successful [30:33] through organic content, um, we didn't [30:35] particularly need to. And also, I'm not [30:38] like a sales person, so it wasn't my [30:40] particular skill set or comfort zone to [30:42] be reaching out to agencies, but I think [30:45] that is a way for product companies to [30:46] remain strong into the future because if [30:49] you have strong partnerships with [30:51] agencies who will regularly use your [30:53] products, that completely bypasses the [30:55] changes we're seeing in discoverability. [30:58] Of course, that depends on the type of [31:00] product you sell, and if you have a sort [31:03] say a form plugin or something like that [31:05] where [31:06] most projects are going to require that, [31:07] then that's going to work a lot more [31:09] than, say, with my company. We sell a [31:11] lot of very feature specific WooCommerce [31:14] add-ons, so it's a bit less relevant. [31:16] So, it does depend, but I think agencies [31:19] are powerful partners, and I'd say that [31:22] they are probably less demanding with [31:24] support because they know what they're [31:25] doing, and they're comfortable with [31:28] customizing. If they do have a question, [31:30] they'll often provide very technical [31:32] information and very quickly helps us [31:34] get to the cause of the problem, whereas [31:36] the end user type of customer spends [31:39] less overall and needs more hold handing [31:42] tech hand-holding technically. Yeah. [31:45] Agency owners, you are loved, [31:47] apparently. [31:48] >> [laughter] [31:48] >> Um, Katie, I'm going back to you. When [31:50] we chatted before getting on stage, um, [31:53] you were looking [31:54] paraphrasing, but you were looking for a [31:56] solution, right? You're look you you [31:58] came to PressNom hoping, uh, that maybe [32:00] we walk away with a solution [32:03] to a problem. And my question to you is, [32:05] can you go deeper on what that what that [32:08] problem was, and maybe how that solution [32:11] wasn't, uh, clearly defined for you? [32:15] I think a lot of people are scared at [32:17] the moment about the future of WordPress [32:20] specifically, [32:22] and um, I think a lot of people are in [32:24] the same boat, and maybe not necessarily [32:27] sharing their numbers if they have had a [32:29] decline. You have to dig a bit to get [32:31] people to admit that. It's been [32:33] interesting after my talk, people have [32:36] come up to me and shared similar [32:37] numbers. One person in particular said [32:40] that the chart I shared, the shape of it [32:42] was almost identical to their own. And [32:44] they said they didn't know whether to [32:46] feel reassured or more scared because [32:48] it's not just them being useless, but [32:50] it's not a good thing if it's a wider [32:52] problem as well. So, there's lots of [32:55] interesting things to be had by sharing, [32:57] but I was kind of hoping that as the, I [32:59] don't know, leaders of the ecosystem or [33:01] whatever people at PressNom are, [33:04] uh, we might be able to come together [33:06] for some solutions. And I think there's [33:07] been more discussion on problems than [33:09] solutions because it's a big challenge. [33:12] Yeah. Yeah. Uh, Emma, do you how do you [33:14] feel? Um, again, I know you're not [33:16] running the business, but, um, do you [33:19] feel like [33:20] you heard solutions to some of the [33:22] problems? Are you positive, negative on [33:26] on that outlook? [33:27] Yeah, I have a very similar sentiment as [33:29] as Katie. Uh, like I feel, um, we have [33:33] this I kind of mentioned it earlier, but [33:34] this kind of unspoken, uh, theme that [33:37] everyone kind of touched upon. [33:39] Uh, and like there's this nice through [33:41] line through all the speakers, through [33:42] all the conversations that you've had. [33:45] And I feel like a lot of the [33:45] conversations that we had, uh, last year [33:48] or even just like, uh, [33:51] I had a at a conf- at a different [33:52] conference or a different WordCamp where [33:54] you're like, [33:55] you know, like not like, uh, not that we [33:57] don't want anyone to hear it, but those [33:59] type of things like was almost like it's [34:01] like gutteral like this time at [34:02] PressNom. Like everything is coming out, [34:04] and everybody is having these [34:06] conversations more publicly, on stage, [34:09] um, like just outside, uh, and I do feel [34:12] like it is the right the next step, but [34:14] I also agree that we had so many [34:16] problems come up, and we never actually [34:18] got to the solution [34:21] uh, stage, I guess. Yeah. [34:25] So, I also think like even though we're [34:28] seeing downturn, excuse me, downturn on [34:30] some of these companies, like my clients [34:33] pretty much across the board that have [34:35] flourished every year aren't doing [34:37] amazing. And so, I think that there's [34:39] also just like this economic place that [34:42] we are in right now that is uncertain, [34:45] right? And so, where I have, um, like a [34:49] a mental health facility in Colorado [34:51] that has consistently done well for [34:53] years, and they have, um, a really hefty [34:56] price tag, all of a sudden they're [34:58] struggling, right? And they have been [34:59] for the last like 6 to 8 months. And so, [35:02] I think there's also just like a general [35:04] economic thing that's there. Like, sure, [35:07] there's technology and AI and like [35:09] changing landscape here, but I also [35:11] think that there's like some percentage [35:13] of the economies that we're seeing that, [35:17] um, are just also kind of what's [35:19] happening in our world. Yeah. And I [35:21] think that common thread, uh, [35:24] again, I know we're shooting for [35:25] clarity. [35:26] I think that common thread of a little [35:28] bit of uncertainty or a little bit of [35:29] fear, um, [35:32] in my opinion is is okay cuz it's [35:33] helping us like critically think, right? [35:35] It's this is the harder moments of [35:37] running the business or being in this in [35:39] this space, especially with with AI. We [35:42] had a great talk about, um, [35:44] culture, [35:45] uh, and building culture in in teams, [35:48] and it wasn't a software company. So, it [35:50] was great to hear that. Um, [35:52] Katie, I'm going to start with you. Uh, [35:54] how do you do you do you change the way [35:57] you build culture at Barn2? Do you find [36:00] it particularly challenging because of [36:02] AI? Um, [36:04] Brent did his demo where he his team [36:07] basically introduced like a 75% cut cut [36:10] to his his business, yeah, [36:12] hypothetically speaking. How do you [36:14] build culture on that? Do you have a a [36:16] north star that you put in front of the [36:17] team and say, "Here's how we're going to [36:19] charge through this stuff?" Or, [36:21] um, whether it's AI or the business in [36:23] general? [36:25] Yeah, I suppose there's two strands to [36:27] that. Company culture is, um, much [36:30] bigger than just AI, and I've always [36:32] done that more instinctively. It was [36:34] interesting to watch that talk and see [36:36] his more intentional approach and [36:38] formula to it because I've just kind of [36:41] imposed my personality on the company. [36:44] For example, as I talked about in my [36:46] talk, um, wanting it to be based around [36:48] my lifestyle, that means not having [36:50] constant calls and meetings because I [36:52] don't want to be overscheduled. For [36:54] example, and so, um, the people that are [36:57] attracted to work for Barn2 are people [36:59] that like the more laid-back culture [37:01] where they're trusted to get on with [37:03] their jobs and not micromanage, and all [37:05] of those things contribute to a kind of [37:07] relaxed professional company culture. [37:10] But I have struggled with implementing [37:12] an AI-first culture, largely because I'm [37:15] not a technical founder myself, and I [37:17] see technical founders who are doing an [37:20] amazing job at that because they are [37:22] leading from the front regarding their [37:24] use of AI and creating clear [37:26] expectations for their team. And I'm [37:28] trying my best to do that now, but I'm [37:30] finding that more of a challenge than if [37:32] I was a developer myself and able to [37:35] make a really informed judgment on [37:37] exactly how my developers should be [37:39] using it. So, I've had to ask my head of [37:41] development to do that on my behalf, [37:43] which feels less strong than if I was [37:46] able to do that. [37:47] >> Yeah. [37:48] Lindsey, I'm going to go to you. [37:49] Culture? Oh, I love culture. [37:51] Um, he mentioned EOS, so, you know, [37:54] Cheryl, like, we're we're in EO, Corey, [37:57] um, and so like that was something that [37:59] people kept telling me when I first, um, [38:01] started my business, like, "You need [38:02] core values." And I was like, "Oh, what [38:04] a waste of time." And I know I talked [38:06] about like an emotional thing on stage [38:07] today, but like I am not that person. [38:09] Um, [38:10] and so, I I really put it off for a [38:12] really long time. But as soon as I [38:14] created core values for us, it changed [38:16] everything for me. It got my team [38:18] excited, it made me excited, and then [38:21] like we hire and fire based on those [38:23] core values, and some of those that like [38:26] involves like learning and growing and [38:28] teaching and sharing. Like, we're [38:29] learners, and like that's part of it, [38:30] and we talk about it all the time. And [38:32] so, obviously like we were a adapting [38:35] early to AI, but we were all trying all [38:37] kinds of new stuff because that's what [38:39] we were doing, um, because it was part [38:41] of our core values, and yeah, I love it. [38:44] I love talking about culture. I love [38:45] creating that. I love having a workspace [38:47] that people are proud to call theirs, [38:50] um, and yeah, yeah, all day, every day. [38:54] Emma, how do you foster culture? [38:55] Yeah, I have a very similar sentiment as [38:57] Lindsey. I like I remember the first [38:59] time, uh, I resonated with some from [39:02] some values or principles. I was like, [39:04] "Okay, yeah, culture." Like, I've been [39:05] at companies before where it's just [39:07] nothing. But then when I landed in a [39:09] company that actually like, uh, [39:11] follows through and is accountable with [39:12] that, like hire and fire based off of [39:14] these, and also these principles are a [39:16] lot of the things that I, uh, like my [39:19] own personal ethics and my own ethos [39:21] that I just happens to be very much in [39:22] parallel, that's when I really thrived [39:24] in a good company culture, and I'm like, [39:26] "Okay, this [39:27] this exists. It's it's it's there's, uh, [39:29] these it's true, you can find one." Um, [39:32] and if not, there's two right here. You [39:34] know, like [39:35] but, yeah, so I also love it. I think if [39:37] you can find a good fit, I don't think [39:38] every culture, uh, is, um, [39:41] for everyone. Like, you need to find [39:43] what fits you because, uh, maybe there's [39:45] a different speed or different things [39:46] that you, uh, enjoy or don't like. If [39:48] you like to be more, like laid back or [39:51] if you want to or you're different stage [39:53] in your career and you need a little bit [39:54] more micromanagement, then find what [39:56] fits you and then, [39:58] uh, and then, I don't know, move on or [39:59] grow from there. But yeah, I agree. Like [40:01] I think if you can find a good fit, like [40:04] culture's amazing when it's there. Yeah. [40:06] Um, [40:08] action item after the event. [40:11] That's the question. [40:13] Draw the line, uh, after this, uh, event [40:16] moving forward. Uh, when you step over [40:18] that line and say, I've learned [40:19] everything from PressConf, I've chatted [40:21] with everybody, I've I've received [40:22] feedback. What's the action item that [40:25] you're going to tackle first after this [40:27] event having experienced what you've [40:29] experienced here. I'll go first, give [40:31] you a second to think about it and then [40:32] raise your hand if [laughter] you want [40:33] to if you want to chime in. [40:35] Uh, so for me, it's it's being more open [40:38] to collaboration again. It's always the [40:40] hardest thing. We say that a lot. We all [40:42] get super busy. I know at least for me, [40:44] uh, it is a big challenge and, you know, [40:47] it's like that New Year's resolution. [40:49] I'm going to stop eating that pizza. [40:51] 60 [laughter] days in, I'm just like, [40:53] give me the damn slice of pizza again. [40:55] Uh, and I forget about collaborating [40:57] with others and I host a podcast. So, [40:59] one of my things is trying to reach out, [41:02] tell more stories that encourage and [41:05] foster the community, WordPress and the [41:06] competition. That's after I step over [41:09] the line leaving this conference, that's [41:11] what I'm going to be doing. [41:13] How about you all? What are you going to [41:14] do after this event? [41:16] Yeah, okay. Uh, I think from me, like to [41:19] not actually copy what you're saying. I [41:21] I want to plus one that and I always [41:23] find that like, um, you know, when [41:24] you're at these conferences, like, uh, [41:26] the people that I enjoy speaking to a [41:28] lot of time with other hosting companies [41:29] and everyone's like, "Ooh, you know, [41:31] four hosting companies talking at once." [41:33] But like it's weird the partnerships [41:34] that you can end up with, but so that [41:36] aside, [41:37] um, [41:39] I completely lost my train of thought. [41:41] You were copying me. I was copying you [41:44] and then I wanted to move to my to my [41:46] own point. Oh, yeah, okay, I got it. [41:48] Okay, uh, but it was basically like [41:50] simplify everything. Like we've gone [41:52] full circle with a lot of the things and [41:54] it was maybe it's not an action point, [41:56] but a reminder of like we went super [41:58] granular, then we went super big picture [42:00] and then we like did these crazy like [42:02] feedback like spirals and we all just [42:04] came back to like cut all the middle [42:06] out and just simplify [42:08] everything and that's maybe what I'm [42:10] going to go back with and just, [42:12] yeah, my action. Fantastic. Katie? [42:15] Well, I've got a whole list. [42:17] >> [laughter] [42:18] >> I need to go through it and prioritize [42:20] is my first task. But the things I'm [42:22] most excited about on my list are kind [42:24] of bigger picture ideas that I've got [42:27] out of this, whether it's like [42:29] acquisitions or new product idea or and [42:31] I've got a few big things that I want to [42:33] evaluate. So, which might just be [42:36] distractions, but I want to do the work [42:38] to see if they're good ideas. Yeah. Are [42:39] you going to feed that through Claude or [42:41] Of course. [42:42] >> [laughter] [42:43] >> Trusted business advisor. [42:46] Mr. Claude. [42:47] Um, yeah, I think, you know, I I shared, [42:50] you know, very personal story today from [42:52] the stage and so I think for me a lot of [42:55] what's happened in my business in the [42:57] last 6 months has just been like same [42:59] old, right? Like we know our systems, [43:01] like we've created all these processes [43:02] and we've stuck to it and I think Brian [43:05] said this, like I'm dabbling back in [43:07] politics like I used to be and I think [43:09] for me after these two days is I'm [43:11] feeling reinvigorated about my business [43:13] again. [43:14] Um, and like go back in and be like, [43:17] yeah, we have these processes and like [43:18] how can we improve these even further [43:20] and like getting me excited about that [43:22] cuz like it is, especially when it comes [43:24] to marketing, like you know what to do, [43:26] right? Like you you know the stages and [43:28] so I like to be in this strategic seat [43:32] and we've lost a lot of that even over [43:35] the last year, not just because of my [43:36] personal pieces, but because like our [43:38] processes are set, right? And so I've [43:41] been kind of dabbling outside with [43:43] people that like want to use the [43:45] strategic side and so I think like I'm [43:47] feeling a little bit reinvigorated in [43:49] general just back, you know, to working [43:51] with the team. Awesome. Uh, we have a [43:53] few minutes until questions. I would [43:55] like to wrap this up, uh, with cool [43:58] things you use now. [44:00] I don't know if that's That's the [44:01] amazing phrase I came up with. Uh, [44:03] something that you can recommend to [44:05] folks out in the audience, um, that [44:07] you're using. It's most likely AI or [44:10] maybe it's M-Dash or maybe not. Uh, for [44:13] me, uh, while you have a second to think [44:15] about the cool thing you use now that [44:17] you could recommend to people in the [44:19] audience. Uh, mine is Solo Terminal. I'm [44:23] not a developer, but Solo is pretty [44:25] cool. It's made by Aaron Francis, um, [44:29] who a lot of developers, uh, probably [44:30] know. Uh, it's way better than using Mac [44:33] Terminal when you're using Claude code, [44:34] in my opinion, uh, or any of your [44:36] favorite chatbot, uh, for the fact that [44:39] allows you to open up different tabs and [44:40] stuff like that. So, that's my cool [44:41] thing for you to check out, Solo [44:44] Terminal. [44:45] Who wants to take this one? [44:47] I think I'll go first since I don't [44:49] think I've gone first anytime. [44:51] >> [laughter] [44:51] >> All right. Um, so we do a lot of social [44:53] media at my marketing assistant and so [44:56] Artlist is something that we use a whole [44:58] lot. So, it's pretty affordable to use [45:01] better music for clients, but they've [45:03] added a whole lot of really cool AI [45:06] stuff that includes video and various [45:08] things and so we're using a lot of [45:09] Artlist and then Nano Banana. [45:13] Yeah, and like it's really improved and [45:17] it's very, very fun and so we're using [45:19] that a lot for social media and honestly [45:21] even just the creation process with that [45:23] and and both of those things together [45:25] is, uh, pretty cool. Yeah, and you [45:27] thought saying WordPress was stupid when [45:29] you walked into a room. [45:30] >> [laughter] [45:30] >> Seriously, the things these AI companies [45:33] are making us say these days. But just [45:35] to add to Nano Banana, actually [45:36] yesterday was one person on my team's [45:38] like seventh year anniversary and I used [45:40] Gemini's Nano Banana to to like super [45:43] deck out and then it can drop a beat for [45:45] you. Like so it writes it and then like [45:46] does a music track. It's hilarious. If [45:48] you haven't done it, please do it. It's [45:50] it like slaps pretty hard. [45:51] >> The custom songs is so much fun. Yes, [45:55] yes. It's so bad, but then like you're [45:56] just singing it like a little bit later. [45:58] [laughter] [45:59] Emma, is that Are you stealing the Nano [46:00] Banana? No. [46:02] >> [laughter] [46:03] >> But, uh, but I will plus one that. Yeah, [46:04] I actually don't feel like I know any [46:06] like up and coming ones. I I work with [46:08] really talented people and they create a [46:09] lot of internal things. So, like I I [46:12] wish that they were for public use so [46:14] that everybody could use it. Um, [46:16] but, [46:17] uh, I guess for more public stuff, I'm [46:19] also like really obsessed with Claude, [46:21] like Co-pilot and all of the agents that [46:23] you can set up. I don't have to know the [46:25] interact like ins and outs of how these [46:27] agents work or what goes on in the back [46:29] end. I just need to know what I want it [46:31] to do. It can teach itself. It can [46:32] explain it to me like a 5-year-old and [46:34] then it can create this agent to do [46:36] exactly what I do. And, um, [46:39] yeah, without that, like I don't have to [46:40] use any data in a Claude bot or anything [46:41] like that. Just [46:43] Claude. Yeah. [46:44] Katie? Yeah, well, building on from what [46:47] Emma said, the coolest tools that I'm [46:48] using right now are tools I've built [46:50] myself with Claude code. So, and people [46:53] who know me best in this room would be [46:55] shocked that it's 2 months ago that I'd [46:57] said that because I only just figured it [46:59] out, but I've made the most amazing [47:01] dashboards that integrate data from [47:03] multiple sources. I've, um, [47:06] automated things to save my team time, [47:08] help me manage my team. All the coolest [47:11] tools are things I've built. So, it [47:13] that's going to have to be my answer, [47:15] build it yourself [47:16] >> [laughter] [47:16] >> based on your needs. Fantastic. I want [47:18] to get a round of applause for Lindsey, [47:20] Katie and Emma. [47:22] You sound like [applause] a technical [47:23] founder like that. You're building apps [47:25] and stuff. Yeah. Not for the public. [47:29] Answers? Yeah, we do. Yeah. [47:32] All right, since we are streaming, this [47:33] is actually the only, uh, thing that is [47:36] streaming. If, uh, we have a question or [47:38] two, we'll take that. Please Um, I I say [47:41] their question again in in your answer. [47:44] So, then if we have [47:45] a couple of questions, we can do that [47:48] now. [47:50] Wow. Oh, wow, we're very thorough. [47:53] Any questions? [47:54] Questions, questions? [47:56] All right. [48:03] All right, well, in that case, [48:05] what we're going to do now is give our [48:06] panel a really big round of applause. [48:09] >> [applause] [48:18] >> I'm thankful for you. Oh, I'm thankful [48:20] for you. Uh, [48:21] I love