Sabotage?  ## Metadata - Author: [[Crossword]] - Full Title: Sabotage? - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/ba58bbea-ebd3-48fd-883d-c80472043e73 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Release Delays Tied to Lawsuit** - Matt Mullenweg suggested significantly slowing WordPress release schedules, including delaying 6.8 and 6.9 releases. - He implies this delay might extend until after the 2027 WP Engine lawsuit trial, linking product progress to legal outcomes. Transcript: Jonathan So, Luke, something I'd like your input on, something I'm wrestling with a bit. Matt Mullenweg just went into the Core Committers channel, I think in the past 24 hours or so, and posted a series of updates asking for a meeting of the Core Commters, of which neither Of you or I are, but asked for a meeting. But we know a number of the folks who are involved in the project. And which in and of itself, like, okay, cool. Like, that's interesting. But there are a couple of things in there that I'd like to talk about today. But I want to frame my struggle first. When I think about Matt, I'm grateful for what I both understand and my sense of what he's done positively for the project and for the ecosystem as a whole. And I think that there's a lot that's there. And I don't want to detract from that. At the same time, when I read a post like this, I'm having a hard time not seeing it as like, I would argue an unintended, but as a self-sabotage or a sabotage of some sort. And I'm struggling with that a bit because I don't want to be ungenerous about it. But yeah, it quite surprised me because it wasn't... Anyway, I just wanted to frame that because I want to go through some of the details with you and get your thoughts, but that's part of what I'm struggling with is like, why, why is Matt Doing this? It doesn't seem to make rational sense to me. And of course we humans aren't rational. We do things for any number of different reasons, but at least at surface level, it, it just, it doesn't make sense to me. Luke So Matt has posted in the core committers channel and he has suggested that we slow down the pace of releases perhaps uh delaying the 6.8 release by a significant margin and uh not releasing 6.9 for you know maybe a year or maybe toward the end of the year or something like that. Yeah. I think he's also mentioned that he'd really like for 7.0 to be a big release. And he made that point right after pointing out that he goes to court with WP Engine in 2027. And it almost seemed like he was trying to equate the two, that maybe we should wait for 7.0 until after this court date. I mean, surely not. Surely not till July 2027. ([Time 0:01:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f1371948-1e58-49a9-b66e-d0127451b857)) - **WP Engine Lawsuit Drains Resources** - Matt frames WP Engine as antagonists impacting WordPress development and contributions from other sponsors. - He highlights massive costs in the lawsuit diverting resources away from development, implying it harms the project's future. Transcript: Jonathan Clue. He says, other corporate sponsors are protesting WP Engine's actions by pulling back contributions, which I think will affect some of the other largest contributors after Automatic. Luke Will they though? I mean, they though you know like who else is contributing do you really think that godaddy and elementor and uh who are some of the other big ones yoast awesome motive is a big contributor Jonathan Now do you think they're pulling back their contributions because of wpP Engine? So we can discuss further, but the point is he offers that as a point. We're still in context of release schedule. That's his opening, right? Our other corporate sponsors are protesting WP Engine's actions. And the question to your point is, are they really? Luke Well, yeah, no, I think, I think that my question has an answer and the answer is no, that nobody else is pulling back their contributions in the same way. Jonathan Well, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes, right? Luke But more the point is that what Matt is doing here, and thankfully nobody engages in drama in the thread later on. It's all very practical, which is fantastic. It's a good sign, really. What he's doing is he's framing WP Engine as the bad guys. Yes. Jonathan And it doesn't stop there. There's a few more points before we discuss it. I want our listeners to have the context for. He goes on to say, again, we're still talking about the release schedule. These are sub points. He says, court schedule and the wp engine lawsuit against automatic me and wordpress.org goes to jury trial in 2027 wp engine appears to be unresponsive to public pressure to resolve Things earlier um then he says here as i said at word camp age i'm ready to end it yesterday then he goes on to say this is the last like point of substance in the release schedule we are approaching 7.0 in two releases, which has an emotional valiance, and I'd rather not be purely maintenance, nor do I want to break our naming structure. So there's a lot there within that context of modifying the release schedule. Then he goes on to make two last points. The first is that one approach would be delaying 6.8 and making it the only release this year, 6.9 and 26, and then 7.0 and late 27, assuming a positive outcome of the jury trial. ([Time 0:05:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3bbbdd94-72a3-446e-aaf1-f14aaf6e68f2)) - **Future WordPress Releases Uncertain** - WordPress 7.0 release might hinge on lawsuit outcome, with a potential freeze until late 2027. - Matt holds trademarks, meaning without his leadership post-trial, WordPress must be forked and renamed. Transcript: Luke It's crazy. And the craziest part in all of these, you know, these paragraphs is let's aim for a 7.0 in late 2027. I'm literally quoting here because I'm not making this up. Yeah. Aim for a 7 in late 2027, assuming a positive outcome of the jury trial. That is worrying, Jonathan. Right. Jonathan Now, going back to my opening, this is part of what I'm wrestling with. I feel, and I also worked for Matt indirectly, like he hired me to automatic. I feel sense of gratitude and appreciation for my sense both direct experience and indirect for the value that he's brought to the ecosystem and i'm having a hard time reconciling that With what feels to be self-interested sabotage of what he said publicly is something he just cares so deeply about i'm having a hard time looking at this and saying like we've talked About this in the opening like two seasons ago about this him framing this as an existential threat and to me it is his own actions that at least from my limited vantage point feel like The bigger threat to the project because as you alluded to like there's been 21 responses to the thread so far and there's no drama in it. It's very civil. There's, they're not even, they're, they're, they're gently and professionally bringing up concerns while also expressing openness. And there's a, a great discourse that's happening, at least from my perspective. And to me, like, I'm like, cool. That's how, like, that's how you get stuff done. Thing continues to march forward and there's a lot more to this than the drama we're seeing shorthand but anyway i don't know man i've been i've been struggling with it yeah so just to Luke Sum up um and put a cap on that the the discourse and the thread for this is basically yeah 6.8 we should just release on time for a number reasons, including the fact that everyone contributing To it didn't sign up for an extended release. They just want it to be over and done with. But sure, let's talk about a 6.9 timeframe. That's no problem. We can talk about it. And there's a few points here and there about whether that's a good idea or not, but it sounds like that's going to happen in a meeting to discuss that further. Yeah. You know what I think that this might be is it might be a tactic to get WP Engine to drop the lawsuit. Jonathan Well, it certainly feels like that. Whether it's a good tactic or whether it's conscious or not, it does feel it's clearly positioned at creating some sort of can we create pressure can we it seems like like oh no let's threaten Luke Like the progress of wordpress not the progress the continuation right so i think essentially what's being said here is if we don't win the lawsuit wordpress 6.9 will be the last version Of WordPress officially, you know, by at least sanctioned by Automatic and Matt. Of course, it can always be forked, but it can't be, that's the thing. And we've had this on, we've talked about this on previous episodes. Matt's been very clear. If I'm not the one at the helm, then I'm sorry, but you can't call it WordPress. You can't continue on and release the 7.0 without me. ([Time 0:09:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/54de3662-f402-4abf-b8d3-9dccca0e322f)) - **Sabotage or Strategic Pressure?** - The public framing pits WordPress community against WP Engine, but Matt's approach feels disconnected and risks demoralizing contributors. - Delaying releases disregards contributors' efforts and may hurt the project's momentum. Transcript: Jonathan It certainly feels like that. Whether it's a good tactic or whether it's conscious or not, it does feel it's clearly positioned at creating some sort of can we create pressure can we it seems like like oh no let's threaten Luke Like the progress of wordpress not the progress the continuation right so i think essentially what's being said here is if we don't win the lawsuit wordpress 6.9 will be the last version Of WordPress officially, you know, by at least sanctioned by Automatic and Matt. Of course, it can always be forked, but it can't be, that's the thing. And we've had this on, we've talked about this on previous episodes. Matt's been very clear. If I'm not the one at the helm, then I'm sorry, but you can't call it WordPress. You can't continue on and release the 7.0 without me. You'll have to fork it and rename it because we earn all the trademarks. Jonathan And that we right there, it's like, if we don't win the trial, I think part of the problem I've had with this from the beginning is this sense of him attempting to position it as us collectively As a community versus like the bad wp engine and and to be fair to him versus the bad private equity and not all private equity just specific private equity uh behind wp engine right and And i'm looking at this and it's hard to find it's we talked about this early on i think there's a lot of which we would be aligned with Matt and some of the points that he was making. Yes. But not the way that he went about it. And it just seems to keep going where it feels very disconnected to me, Luke, from the reality of like, so you pull 6.8. Are we just going to throw all the work that these contributors have already done so far away or in their faces no i think 6.8 will still land on time no i of course but the the risk of disregarding It like he's he's it's like everyone are just pawns in in what's going on and expected to be just cheering for a victory that i don't't know, just seems disconnected. ([Time 0:11:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3f657deb-52a7-47b5-8eea-312dcb565ee7)) - **Development On Hold Until Trial** - Matt set a hard timeline aiming for July 2027 lawsuit trial before WordPress development resumes. - This effectively applies brakes on WordPress progress pending legal outcomes, creating uncertainty. Transcript: Luke Yeah. So at the very least, we have a sort of a date now. We have a line in the sand where Matt is saying July, 2027. I think it was July. Yes. 2027 is when this all goes to trial. He said late 27, but yeah. When all this goes to trial. Before then, not much is going to happen in WordPress. Before then, we're going to have the brakes on. We're going to be slowing right down. After then, who knows? It could go one way or the other. Yeah. That seems to be what he's positioning ([Time 0:14:06](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bbaf75ac-34af-4287-99f6-fbf0b5ac2ae4))