Santa.exe (Presented by CodeRabbit) - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

Santa.exe (Presented by CodeRabbit) 🔗 **Source:** [Santa.exe (Presented by CodeRabbit)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-SC4gJCY8) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [christmas-hot-takes, ai-development, developer-tools] > author: Whiskey Web and Whatnot > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-SC4gJCY8 > date created: 2024-12-19 10:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: Santa.exe (Presented by CodeRabbit) >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Try Ball Pit game — addictive rogue-lite pinball hybrid #gaming - [H2] Check out Indiana Jones and the Great Circle — new Bethesda adventure game #gaming - [H3] Consider AI SWAT team business model — fixing AI-generated code disasters #business ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Whiskey Web and Whatnot Podcast](https://whiskeywebandwhatnotcom) - [CodeRabbit AI Code Reviews](https://coderabbit.ai) ## 📝 Summary - Holiday-themed podcast episode covering Christmas traditions and preferences - Major discussion about AI's impact on development practices and career paths - Debate over whether TypeScript and CMSs are still necessary in AI-driven development - Disney's $1 billion investment in OpenAI represents industry shift toward AI content creation - Hosts share personal whiskey tastings and game recommendations - Bottom line: Development roles are shifting from coding to prompting and orchestration ## 📖 Main Content The hosts discuss how AI is fundamentally changing software development workflows. Many developers are spending 40+ hours weekly just prompting AI tools rather than writing code directly. This has led some to question whether traditional tools like TypeScript are still necessary when AI handles most error correction. The conversation explores the tension between maintaining code quality through human-readable patterns versus letting AI optimize for pure functionality. Disney's billion-dollar partnership with OpenAI contrasts sharply with other creative industries' resistance to AI content generation. While artists and studios like Studio Ghibli oppose AI mimicking their work, Disney embraces it as marketing and content generation opportunity. The episode also covers lighter holiday topics including real vs fake Christmas trees (consensus: fake wins for convenience) and colored vs white lights preferences, alongside whiskey tastings and gaming recommendations. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=0) — [H1] Holiday Episode Introduction - Key idea: Special Christmas edition with whiskey tastings - Evidence: "This is the holiday edition of Whiskey Web and Whatnot" #### ⏱️ [05:30](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=330) — [H2] Christmas Tree Preferences - Key idea: Fake trees win for convenience despite real tree appeal - Evidence: "I love the smell of a real tree... but I hate bringing the tree home, cleaning up" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=765) — [H2] Colored vs White Lights Debate - Key idea: Personal preferences split between aesthetic approaches - Evidence: "My mom did only white lights... didn't want it to look like Christmas" #### ⏱️ [18:20](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=1100) — [H3] Gaming Recommendations - Key idea: Ball Pit combines breakout mechanics with RPG progression - Evidence: "It's called Ball Pit... imagine Breakout but you're moving north and collecting mods" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=1515) — [H2] Grocery Store Technology - Key idea: Scan-as-you-shop eliminates checkout interactions - Evidence: "Never talk to a human... scan my product, put it in the bag, pay and leave" #### ⏱️ [32:40](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=1960) — [H1] AI Development Revolution - Key idea: Developers spending full time prompting instead of coding - Evidence: "Interviewing developers spending 40 hours a week just prompting" #### ⏱️ [38:55](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=2335) — [H1] TypeScript Relevance Question - Key idea: Some question TypeScript's value in AI-driven development - Evidence: "TypeScript was for me... AI doesn't give a crap about types" #### ⏱️ [42:10](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=2530) — [H2] CMS Elimination Trend - Key idea: Flat files preferred over CMSs for AI editing - Evidence: "What do I need a CMS for if I just talk to my website?" #### ⏱️ [45:30](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=2730) — [H1] Tech Lead Role Evolution - Key idea: Developers becoming AI orchestrators and managers - Evidence: "I think of myself as a tech lead when working with AI agents" #### ⏱️ [52:15](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=3135) — [H2] Non-Technical Adoption - Key idea: Non-coders building websites through prompting - Evidence: "So many people that have never coded building websites through prompting" #### ⏱️ [58:40](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=3520) — [H1] Code Quality Concerns - Key idea: AI-generated codebases may become unmaintainable - Evidence: "20 people all prompting three years of giant messy code base" #### ⏱️ [64:20](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=3860) — [H3] Vocabulary as Superpower - Key idea: Technical vocabulary becomes key differentiator in AI era - Evidence: "CSS specialty is a superpower... I know words that yield better results" #### ⏱️ [68:45](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=4125) — [H2] Entry-Level Challenges - Key idea: Getting started in tech becomes nearly impossible - Evidence: "If you're not already in tech I would not recommend it" #### ⏱️ [74:10](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=4450) — [H1] Disney's AI Investment - Key idea: Disney invests $1B in OpenAI while others resist AI art - Evidence: "Disney's like 'Here's a billion dollars. We want to lean in'" ## 📚 References - [Ball Pit Game](https://store.steampowered.com/app/ball-pit) - [Indiana Jones and the Great Circle](https://bethesda.net/en/game/indianajones) - [CodeRabbit AI Code Reviews](https://coderabbit.ai) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Development work is shifting from writing code to managing AI agents and orchestrating automated workflows - Traditional tools like TypeScript may become less relevant when AI handles most error detection and correction - Content management systems face obsolescence as AI can directly edit flat files based on natural language instructions ## 📰 Newsletter 🎄 **Holiday Edition: The Great AI Development Shift** This week's Whiskey Web and Whatnot brought some eye-opening insights about how AI is reshaping our industry. The hosts discussed developers who now spend 40+ hours weekly prompting AI instead of coding - a fundamental shift that's making some question whether tools like TypeScript are still necessary. Key takeaway: Your technical vocabulary is becoming your superpower. The words you know directly impact the quality of AI-generated results. **Practical Application:** Start building your prompting skills alongside traditional development. Consider how AI might handle routine tasks in your current workflow. **Resources:** [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) **Community Connection:** Join the conversation about AI's impact on development practices in your local WordPress meetups. ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create content about AI-assisted development workflows and best practices - Education: Develop workshops on effective AI prompting for developers - Developer experience: Document AI integration patterns and guardrails - Developer marketing: Position company tools within AI-first development workflows - Community management: Moderate discussions about AI's impact on traditional development roles #### OSPO - Policy & Governance: Establish guidelines for AI-generated code contributions - License Compliance: Review implications of AI training on open source codebases - Security Management: Assess vulnerabilities in AI-generated code - Software Inventory: Track AI tools and models used in development - Developer Support: Train teams on responsible AI development practices - Community Engagement: Fund research into AI's impact on open source sustainability - Strategic Alignment: Measure productivity gains from AI adoption #### Community - Maintainers: Provide guidance on reviewing AI-generated contributions - Contributors: Create onboarding for AI-assisted development workflows - Sponsors: Fund initiatives exploring AI's impact on project sustainability - Ecosystem: Coordinate standards for AI tool integration across projects #### WordPress - Core: Evaluate AI integration opportunities while maintaining backwards compatibility - Core Performance: Profile AI-generated code patterns for optimization opportunities - Core AI: Develop ethical guidelines for AI content generation features - Community: Create resources for AI-assisted theme and plugin development - Training: Develop courses on AI tools for WordPress developers - Documentation: Update development guides to include AI-assisted workflows ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Developers with strong technical vocabulary will outperform those with traditional coding skills in AI-driven workflows - TypeScript's value will diminish as AI tools become better at runtime error detection and correction - Non-technical users will increasingly bypass traditional CMSs in favor of AI-driven content management - Traditional computer science education will become less relevant for entry-level positions ### 📊 Methodology - Study design: Survey developers on time spent coding vs prompting over 6-month periods - Data sources: GitHub commit patterns, AI tool usage analytics, job posting requirements analysis - Experiments: A/B test development speed with and without TypeScript in AI-assisted workflows ### ❓ Questions - How will traditional code review processes adapt to AI-generated code? - What new security vulnerabilities emerge from AI-generated codebases? - How can educational institutions prepare students for prompt-driven development careers? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term maintainability of AI-generated codebases - Economic impact of non-technical users replacing junior developers - Evolution of development team structures in AI-first organizations ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Development workflows shifting from coding to AI orchestration and quality assurance - Policy: Need for new standards around AI-generated code quality and security - Security: Increased vulnerability surface area from AI-generated code patterns - Education: Traditional computer science curricula may need fundamental restructuring - Funding: Investment flowing toward AI tooling rather than traditional development infrastructure ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Discussion of UI patterns and development workflows - Improve: Diagrams showing AI development workflow comparisons, code quality visualizations #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full audio podcast format available - Improve: Chapter markers for key topic discussions #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Conversational format with technical terminology explanations - Improve: Glossary of AI development terms, analogies for traditional vs AI workflows #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Game recommendations with hands-on interaction - Improve: Practical exercises for AI prompting, step-by-step workflow guides #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Structured debate format with clear arguments - Improve: Decision trees for when to use AI vs traditional approaches #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Multi-host discussion format - Improve: Community discussion prompts, collaborative AI development exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection on career implications - Improve: Self-assessment tools for AI readiness, personal development planning #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Evolution metaphors for technology adoption - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about AI's impact on development community ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear topic transitions and speaker identification - Improve: Structured transcript with heading markers for key topics #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Skip navigation for topic sections #### Contrast and readability - Present: High contrast video elements - Improve: Closed captioning with technical term definitions #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive transcript formatting - Improve: Adjustable text size options for transcript viewing #### Media and captions - Present: Full audio content - Improve: Professional closed captioning, downloadable transcript #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard media controls - Improve: Accessible chapter navigation, bookmark features ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: International perspective from Italy-based host - Improve: Broader geographic examples of AI adoption patterns #### Inclusive language - Present: Conversational, accessible technical discussion - Improve: Avoid assumptions about listener's current role or experience level #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear topic organization and natural conversation flow - Improve: Content warnings for rapid topic changes, visual topic indicators #### Representation - Present: Multiple perspectives on career implications - Improve: Include voices from different experience levels and backgrounds #### Psychological safety - Present: Honest discussion about career uncertainty - Improve: Supportive framing around career transitions and learning ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear progression from AI capability to workflow changes - Inductive strength: Examples of current developer behavior patterns supporting broader trends - Causal reasoning: Connection between AI adoption and traditional tool relevance - Analogical strength: Comparison of AI adoption to previous technology shifts #### Fallacies - Hasty generalization: Limited sample of developers extrapolated to industry-wide trends - Appeal to novelty: Assumption that newer AI approaches are necessarily better - False dilemma: Framing as either traditional coding or AI prompting rather than hybrid approaches #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Conversational and exploratory with mixture of concern and excitement about industry changes ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No significant denial patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on accusers present - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender dynamics present - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Honest uncertainty about career implications, balanced concern about industry changes ## 🎯 Conclusion The episode reveals a fundamental shift in software development from coding to AI orchestration, with implications for career paths, educational requirements, and tool relevance. While the technology enables rapid development and broader participation, it also raises questions about code quality, security, and traditional career progression. The key takeaway is that technical vocabulary and prompting skills are becoming as important as traditional programming abilities, requiring developers to adapt their skill sets for an AI-first future. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] AI development workflows replacing traditional coding > [!quote] [Santa.exe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-SC4gJCY8) by [[Whiskey Web and Whatnot]] via [[YouTube]]. Published 2024-12-19. Accessed 2024-12-19. > "Intervi --- ## Full Transcript [00:02] Welcome to syntax. Welcome to a brand [00:04] new episode of the frontend happy hour [00:06] podcast. Welcome to this week's JS [00:09] Party. [00:12] >> Live from Ship Shape Studios. This is [00:15] Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your hosts [00:18] Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles [00:21] William Carpenter III. [00:23] >> That's right, Charles. We drink whiskey [00:25] and talk about web development. I mean, [00:27] it's all in the name. It's not that [00:29] deep. This is whiskey web and whatnot. [00:32] Do not adjust your set. [00:36] Whiskey web and whatnot is brought to [00:38] you by [00:41] code reviews are critical but [00:43] timeconuming. Code rabbit acts as your [00:45] AI co-pilot providing instant code [00:47] review comments and potential impacts of [00:49] every pull request. Beyond just flagging [00:51] issues, Code Rabbit provides one-click [00:53] fix suggestions and lets you define [00:55] custom code quality rules using a GRP [00:57] patterns. This catches subtle issues [00:59] that traditional static analysis tools [01:01] might miss. Code Rabbit is the category [01:03] defining platform for AI code reviews. [01:06] Built for modern engineering teams [01:07] navigating the rise of AI generated [01:09] development. Code Rabbit's contextaware [01:11] reviews pull in dozens of points of [01:13] context, making them the most [01:14] comprehensive AI code reviews with [01:16] customization features that allow you to [01:18] tailor your review to your codebase. [01:20] Code Rabbit's comments improve with time [01:22] and interactions. Code Rabbit helps [01:24] organizations catch bugs, strengthen [01:26] security, and ship reliable code at [01:28] speed. Trusted by thousands of companies [01:30] and open source projects worldwide, Code [01:32] Rabbit helps reduce review time and bugs [01:34] by 50%. Up on the rooftop reindeer paws, [01:40] or I was already wrong on that. Anyway, [01:43] okay. What's up? This is the holiday [01:46] edition of Whiskey Web and Whatnot with [01:50] your [01:52] >> interrupting Charles III. And yes, [01:59] >> yeah. No, it is Robbie the Wagner, [02:00] Charles William Carpenter the third, and [02:02] Adam Thomas Ar the nerd. [02:04] >> What's up everybody? Nice sweaters. [02:07] >> I like how we alphabetized. [02:09] >> Yes. [02:10] >> RCA. [02:12] >> How you like that? Yeah. RCA. [02:15] >> We are uh drinking random whisies today. [02:19] >> None of this raiding [ __ ] We're [02:20] just gonna drink stuff and enjoy it. I'm [02:23] plugged in. So, I'm I don't know how I'm [02:24] going to grab this whiskey while I'm [02:25] without ripping my [02:26] >> Well, what you try and do that and I'm [02:28] going to say, well, today I'm having the [02:31] Lazu. It is a single malt whiskey. It is [02:35] French. because I decided if I'm going [02:38] to do this podcast thing, I'm just going [02:40] to go down the street to the Enoteka in [02:44] my neighborhood and just get something [02:45] they already have because trying to [02:47] chase down things that these dorks can [02:51] get in America is really hard. All [02:53] right, I've got Flavi's [02:56] five and six of the advent calendar. I'm [02:58] well behind because as uh folks may know [03:01] if they listen to the one where I gave a [03:03] monologue about all the [ __ ] happening [03:04] in my life to Adam, I've been dealing [03:06] with dogs trying to die on me and my [03:09] life falling apart. So, I have not made [03:10] it through the advent calendar. [03:12] >> I would have think that would accelerate [03:14] you through the advent calendar from [03:16] what I have heard. [03:18] >> With zero sleep, [03:19] >> I just like go I sit down and just fall [03:21] asleep. Like that's that's my best case [03:23] scenario right now. [03:24] >> It sounds like dad, right? You're like, [03:26] "What? How did parents always fall [03:28] asleep so fast?" You're like, "Oh [ __ ] [03:29] now I know exactly how." Yeah. [03:31] >> Sleep apnnea. [03:33] >> Yeah. [03:34] Stop breathing. That helps. Has this [03:37] show changed to Whiskey Web and Therapy? [03:39] >> It's feeling [03:41] burnt, bro. [03:42] >> Yeah. I just had a lot to [ __ ] about, [03:44] but I'm I'm done. We don't talk about [03:46] >> Sprinkle it in and whatever else. Life [03:48] is hard. You should be able to express [03:50] it. We're men, actually. No. Yeah. [03:52] Suppress that [ __ ] and drink. Like, shut [03:54] up. [03:56] Yes. [03:56] >> Throw some balls. That's what we used to [03:58] >> That'll make you happy. That's That's [03:59] how you get over stuff. You just push it [04:01] inside. You push it down. That's what [04:03] LetGo was all about. It was just [04:05] >> No. Yeah, that totally worked. [04:08] Definitely didn't get me beaten as a [04:09] kid. Oh, wait. Did I say that out loud? [04:11] That's so weird. [04:13] >> Ooh, [04:14] >> it's a show. It's a therapy show. [04:17] >> I've got George Dickle here. [04:20] >> I'm just laughing because we were [04:21] talking about all the the Dickle jokes. [04:23] You're like, "Oo, this Dickle is yummy." [04:24] Yeah. Take your dickle out or go. [04:30] >> Pop the top on the dickle. [04:31] >> You good though. [04:33] >> Smells like apple juice. It has this [04:35] very It's super sweet. Oh man, it's very [04:38] sweet, but it's delightful. [04:39] >> Interesting. Yeah. [04:41] >> Well, my laz is uh a French single malt [04:46] and does not encapsulate any scotch-like [04:49] flavors. So, even Robbie would enjoy [04:52] this. I think it's a [04:53] >> Oh, nice. [04:54] >> Yeah, it's 90 proof. 45%. Yeah, it's [04:57] actually very pleasant. It's got a [04:59] little burn. It's got um Oh, almost want [05:03] to say like a kind of like not dried [05:06] apricots. I know you were thinking, but [05:08] it does have a little bit of like a [05:10] citrus tang, but like in a tart way to [05:12] it. I don't know. Maybe like a slight [05:15] nutmeg. Interesting. [05:18] Nice. I have the Oaklor Grain Bourbon [05:21] Whiskey. It is 46% alcohol and it tells [05:25] me it should taste like cake, pecans, [05:28] toffee, [05:30] etc. I'm not getting any of those notes. [05:33] It is sweet. [05:34] >> It's yummy. Would recommend. [05:36] >> It's a fruit cake. It's like a fruit [05:38] cake. You didn't show your bottle. We [05:39] all showed our bottles. [05:41] >> Oh, yeah. You had the tiny flavier. It's [05:42] a little guy. Tiny one. [05:44] >> Yeah, you're a little you're you're a [05:45] little guy. You're a little dick. [05:46] >> I'll show a gun though. I got So, yeah. [05:48] George Dickle. Chuck was telling me [05:50] about Tennessee whiskey and what that [05:52] because I was like, "What is this?" And [05:53] he's like, "Well, it's from it's [05:54] Tennessee, so it's going to be a bourbon [05:55] whiskey they make in Tennessee." [05:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. And oftent times that's a [06:00] sour mash in a bourbon style. They I [06:02] think they probably could call it b I [06:05] don't know the mash bill of what you [06:06] got, but oftent times that's the case. [06:09] >> I think there's something about like, [06:11] you know, Jack Daniels popularizing [06:13] Tennessee whiskey and like people [06:14] thinking that's a cool thing to call it. [06:16] I think there's something there. But [06:18] >> yeah, it's probably that because Jack [06:20] Daniels is by Mash Bill a bourbon, but [06:23] the fact that they do the filtration [06:25] through charcoal that gives it maple [06:28] filtering. So they artificially flavor [06:30] it. So by law can't be called bourbon, [06:32] otherwise it would be. [06:34] >> This the same thing here. It says [06:36] charcoal mellowed. I can taste maple [06:39] syrup in it. It's that's I was like I'm [06:41] getting like apple maple brown sugar [06:44] candy out of this. It's like a syrup [06:46] even in some ways. But it's good. It's [06:48] got a good burn, a good hug. It's pretty [06:50] mellow with the apple. There's like a [06:51] little bit of apple tartness to it, but [06:53] then at the very end, it kind of turns [06:55] into a little bit of a cherry cough [06:56] syrup, and I wish it didn't do that. [06:59] >> But until then, this is delightful. [07:01] >> Yeah. Nice. Now you know why like rock [07:03] stars in the 80s would just chug bottles [07:05] of Jack Daniels, cuz it's kind of like [07:07] candy. It's not as hardcore as you [07:09] think. [07:10] >> Not as hardcore as it looks hardcore. [07:12] >> It sure does. [07:12] >> Badass. [07:14] >> Heck yeah. Let's go drive our Corvette. [07:16] >> Didn't work out for the deaf leopard [07:18] guy, right? [07:19] >> Does he wreck a Corvette? [07:20] >> I'm not. [07:21] >> I think it was a Corvette. You know how [07:22] he lost an arm. The de leopard guy is a [07:24] one-armed drummer. [07:25] >> Yeah, he's one Wait, he lost it. [07:27] >> He lost his arm in a car accident. Yeah. [07:30] >> Interesting. [07:31] >> I don't know if there was Jack Daniels [07:33] involved. And I'm not sure it's a [07:34] Corvette, but in my head it definitely [07:36] is a Corvette. [07:37] >> It's a stingray. I can visualize black [07:39] stingray. [07:39] >> Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, do we have other [07:42] things to talk about? Yes, we have [07:44] Christmas hot takes. Real tree or fake [07:47] tree? Fake tree. [07:50] >> I love the smell of a real tree. I like [07:52] going and getting a real tree, but I [07:54] hate bringing the tree home. I hate [07:56] cleaning up the tree. I hate cleaning [07:58] the splashes from the tree. I hate [08:00] everything else [08:02] >> disposal of the tree. Yeah. Yeah. [08:04] >> Everything early on. [08:05] >> Disposing the tree. Yeah. [08:07] >> Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. We did a a [08:10] hybrid. We have uh let's see. One, two, [08:13] >> wait, four, half fake, half real tree. [08:16] >> That's the thing. [08:17] >> We have like four lives on it. [08:20] >> Four or five fake trees. [08:22] >> And then we got one like a tabletop real [08:24] tree. Just like the teeny tiny [08:26] >> like put in the playroom. [08:28] >> So it still smells good in the house, [08:29] but [08:30] >> nice. [08:32] >> I can't imagine decorating four or five [08:35] fake trees. Like decorating our house is [08:38] very Christmy. [08:40] >> Oh man, my mom did that. Yep. We had [08:42] lots of trees. They were all themed. I [08:43] was like, "This is the Nightmare Before [08:44] Christmas tree. This is the tree that's [08:46] actually pretty. This is the tree that [08:48] actually looks like Christmas. Here's [08:50] the tree." [08:50] >> Yeah. You need your show tree that like [08:52] guests see in your fancy living room and [08:54] then you have your like family trees [08:56] that aren't as fancy. Yeah, [08:57] >> that's not a life I want to live. And [08:59] I'm really happy that my family doesn't [09:01] listen to this show because I don't want [09:02] anyone getting any ideas. We can barely [09:05] afford one tree. [09:07] >> Five trees. [09:09] >> You need five trees. You can make them [09:11] all your Yeah. Everybody in the house [09:13] gets their own tree. No. No. [09:15] >> Well, we were supposed to get two more [09:17] like uh one because Kayn wants all the [09:19] kids to have one in their room and I was [09:21] like the babies won't even [09:23] >> won't even remember. Like let's skip [09:25] them this year. So, next year we'll [09:26] probably have two more trees. [09:28] >> Oh my gosh. [09:29] >> It's like a disappointing mom thing, [09:31] though. It's like you've been saving all [09:33] the ornaments and then your kid moves [09:34] out and they're like, "Mom, I definitely [09:36] don't want that [ __ ] Don't don't give [09:38] me a box of ornaments. I I just I don't [09:41] have [09:41] >> It's true. It's like when they first [09:42] move out, they don't want it. But Sarah [09:45] got some of her childhood ornaments like [09:48] uh in her early 30s. So she was like, [09:52] "Yeah, [09:52] >> hook me up. I want that." Yeah. [09:54] >> Yeah. This was the ballerina one that I [09:56] made when I was six and all that stuff. [09:58] Now she loves that. Like my mom is not [10:01] sentimental. So I I mean I don't even [10:03] have pictures from I don't know growing [10:05] up for the most part. [10:07] >> Man, my mom scrapooked. She'd go to a [10:09] cabin with her with her girly friends [10:11] and scrapbook for the weekend. Yeah. [10:14] >> At least that's what she told me. Quote [10:15] quote quote scrapbook all weekend. I was [10:17] a naive child. How am I supposed to [10:19] know? [10:21] >> The kids call it homework these days. [10:25] >> She was scrapbooking with a punch bowl [10:28] and bunch of friends. [10:30] >> My wife's uh mom, she had the biggest [10:33] tree I've ever seen. So she did multiple [10:35] trees, you know, she had her themed [10:36] trees. There's probably five trees in [10:38] the house, but one of them was three [10:40] stories tall. And she got on this huge [10:42] ladder. She had a whole shed for all of [10:45] this. It took her so much time. And you [10:47] showed up at her house and it was like, [10:49] "Holy cow, that Christmas tree is bigger [10:51] than the one at the mall. It's [10:53] beautiful. I don't know how you why all [10:56] I have so many questions, but there it [10:58] is." [10:59] >> And then she gave it up. She moved away [11:01] this year from the house. And I think [11:03] it's the maybe the first or second year. [11:05] Not the huge tree. Bummer. [11:07] >> I bet that feels good, you know. I don't [11:08] know. [11:10] >> It's quite an undertaking, you know, [11:11] once you like invest into that. [11:14] >> You are you're in it. You're in it. [11:16] You're like, [11:16] >> you're that person. You got to do it [11:17] every day. [11:18] >> Decades of my life are about this tree. [11:20] >> It's your identity. That tree is your [11:22] identity. It's like your app, your spa. [11:24] You know, this this code framework that [11:26] I choose, this is my identity. [11:27] >> Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I [11:29] get I've got the t-shirt. [11:31] >> I have many t-shirts. [11:33] >> Yeah. Yeah. Robbie has all the ember [11:35] t-shirts. [11:36] >> Yeah, I also have an ember shirt. [11:40] >> It looks like it's ember. It's just like [11:42] an ember burning, you know. Is it the [11:44] orange one? It should be. [11:45] >> Yeah. There you go. [11:47] >> The flame in the background. [11:49] >> I don't know why it won't focus on it. [11:51] >> Cuz it's set to your face cuz you [11:53] finally got it right. [11:56] >> [ __ ] camera. [11:56] >> I don't have the problem that you have. [11:58] I don't have the problem. Look at this. [12:00] It's always focused on this beautiful [12:02] mug. [12:04] It's beautiful. [12:05] >> Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's cuz my [12:06] room is so dark as well. I have no idea. [12:09] >> Matches yourself. [12:10] >> I don't know how cameras work. All [12:11] right. So, [12:12] >> yeah, that was just one question. [12:14] >> White lights or colored lights? [12:16] >> Colored lights. Lights. Oh, [ __ ] [12:19] >> Oh, man. I grew up I grew up My mom did [12:21] only white lights. She's like an [12:23] interior decorator. She didn't She liked [12:25] Christmas, but didn't want it to look [12:27] like Christmas, you know? It needed to [12:28] be pretty and and twinkle like diamonds. [12:31] >> Yeah. [12:32] >> And I don't know. what I love. [12:33] >> Did you have a fancy upbringing in some [12:35] way that I just [12:36] >> No, dude. We were super poor, but my mom [12:37] was a decorator. So, like the upstairs [12:39] in our house was, you know, it was [12:41] almost like that room that you can't you [12:43] can't walk in. Like a lot of people [12:44] would visit our house and go to the [12:45] bathroom and be like, "Which towel do I [12:48] use for my hands?" Cuz they'd be like, [12:51] >> "Fuck like every towel's fancy." They're [12:53] like, "Which is the shitty one that I [12:54] wipe my, you know, [ __ ] on?" or [12:56] whatever. [12:57] >> Be like they're kind of all crappy. [12:59] We're all kids. We're eight. We treat [13:00] them all like crap. So [13:02] >> yeah, [13:02] >> grab a towel. Yo, [13:03] >> that's interesting. In my house, they'd [13:05] be like, "Which one is clean?" [13:08] >> Why is your mom drunk and which one is [13:09] clean? [13:11] >> Well, now you know how it gets there. [13:14] Anyway. [13:14] >> Yeah. [13:16] >> Oh, yeah. My mom did the same thing with [13:17] the towels. Like there's like the base [13:19] towel that you're supposed to use for [13:21] your hands, but on top there's at least [13:22] two other towels with like giant [13:24] embroidered things. [13:25] >> Right. Right. And sometimes they're [13:27] folded nicely cuz I have friends with [13:29] like [13:31] I don't even want to use that one. Yeah, [13:33] >> it sucks to use it. Yeah. [13:34] >> Like, how did you fold this like a swan [13:36] and I just want to dry my hands? [13:38] >> Yeah. [13:38] >> I just have a thing in this house now. [13:39] I'm like, I if we put a towel out, it [13:41] needs to dry stuff. There's so many [13:43] towels. You're like, hey, that's a [13:44] towel. Cool. Let me touch it. I'm like, [13:45] it does it does not nothing. It's not My [13:48] hands are still wet. I'm like rubbing [13:50] and rubbing and rubbing and the water's [13:51] still in my hands. I'm like, what the [13:53] hell? [13:54] >> Come on, wick, baby. I need something [13:55] that wicks. Um, so anyway, but then [13:58] there's over wicking where you touch [13:59] one, you're like, whoa. I am like now [14:01] I'm the sponge and I'm all dry. [14:03] >> Like those sport towels are like that, [14:05] you know? I don't know if you I don't [14:06] know if you sport and you have a sport [14:08] towel. You like I take those to the gym [14:11] and they're really thin so they fit in [14:13] the gym bag and whatever else and [14:15] literally they just like touch your [14:16] skin. They're used a lot in like swim [14:19] also. I don't know. No, [14:21] >> they're like a Shamwow. [14:23] >> Kind of like I know those. Not rubbery [14:26] like a Shamwow. I do know the I know the [14:28] Shamwow towels. They're not rubbery like [14:30] that, but they're [14:31] >> No, no, no. Not the same. Just the same [14:34] idea of like super absorbent. [14:36] >> Super absorbent. Those are amazing. But [14:38] you can't put those out for guests also. [14:40] You know, you need a middle ground. [14:42] >> Oh, so I was going to say I got scammed [14:44] by the the Shamwow guy at the beach like [14:46] when they were popular. There's like a [14:48] booth and he's like, "Here's a 2 L of [14:50] soda." And I poured it on this thing and [14:51] like nothing came off. I was like, "Oh [14:53] my god, I need one." And then you bring [14:55] it home and you put like a cup of water [14:56] on it and it's already dripping. And I'm [14:58] like, "This thing is a scam. This is not [15:00] real." [15:01] >> Yeah. What kind of water did he have in [15:02] that 2 liter? [15:03] >> Yeah. [15:05] >> You got your 20 bucks, though. [15:07] >> I was going to say, are you all watching [15:08] South Park? The uh Towi is in it, but [15:10] he's in it in a whole new way now. [15:13] >> Wow. [15:14] >> No, I haven't been. [15:15] >> He's He's Satan's sex rag. [15:18] >> He's just there. It's like a [15:20] >> Yeah, [15:21] >> you can say all the words on here, you [15:23] know. You could just say comrag. I that [15:26] that is what he is. And it's but he's [15:28] like getting all this insider [15:29] information. So now he's like a [15:30] tattletail, but he's like barely alive. [15:32] He's like, "Ah, I can barely move." [15:36] Everything gets a [15:38] They went over the top uh pretty pretty [15:40] heavy in this uh season cuz Yeah, Satan [15:42] has a butt baby. So Trump impregnated [15:45] Satan with a butt baby [15:47] >> and it just birthed itself in the most [15:49] recent episode. [15:50] >> Wow. I haven't watched it, but I feel [15:53] like I definitely should. My company's [15:55] closed the week after Christmas before [15:58] Christmas Eve and I have a lot of plans [16:01] to do nothing and so something like that [16:03] sounds perfect. Like people are like, [16:06] "Oh, what are you going to do with all [16:07] that time?" And I'm like, [16:08] >> "Binge South Park." [16:09] >> Nothing. Yeah, exactly. It's like [16:11] >> Stranger Things season 5. [16:13] >> We already watched up to the pause [16:16] >> four season. [16:17] >> I have not watched any of it yet, [16:19] unfortunately. So, no spoilers. [16:20] >> Okay. Uh I can't believe they all died. [16:23] Oh, is that not what you wanted to hear? [16:25] That's so weird. [16:26] >> And the first episode, too, it was [16:27] weird. [16:27] >> Yeah. Yeah. It's all new characters. [16:29] Enjoy. [16:30] >> Did anybody watch the the docu [16:33] documentary? [16:34] >> It feels like [16:35] >> the one that was by 50 Cent. [16:37] >> Yeah. Well, the only reason why it came [16:40] to fruition, and this is the best part, [16:43] is that Diddy hired videographers to [16:47] follow him around and take all this. [16:49] >> What a dummy. before his trial cuz he [16:53] was like, I'm going to beat it as I have [16:55] many other times and then he didn't and [16:59] so he refused to pay them. So they're [17:01] like, great, this belongs to us and [17:03] we'll sell it to the highest bidder. 50 [17:05] Cent's like [17:05] >> I watched uh the interview with 50 Cent. [17:08] Like he's just they're interviewing him [17:09] on like the Today Show and he has the [17:11] biggest grin on his face. [17:12] >> Oh, he's loving it. He's like, [17:13] >> "Oh yeah, [17:14] >> this idiot has made it so easy for me." [17:17] >> Yeah. [17:18] >> Yeah. He holds a grudge like no other. [17:20] Anyway, it's kind of slow moving, but it [17:22] also is like when you get there end [17:25] parts, you're like, "What?" Okay. Yeah, [17:29] >> I'm a Curtis Jackson fan, so I would uh [17:32] I would watch that. [17:33] >> I think it's worth watching. I think [17:35] it's interesting. It's about four hours [17:37] of your time. So, [17:38] >> holy cow. God, I don't have four hours [17:41] of time. That's like six weeks of free [17:42] time, [17:43] >> right? Exactly. So, you'll just like [17:45] pause every 15 minutes. It's fine. It'll [17:47] take you six weeks. Still worth it. All [17:49] right. I have a new [17:50] >> You all got extra time. Oh, go ahead. [17:52] Yeah. [17:52] >> Yeah. [17:53] >> I don't know what it is. Continue until [17:54] I find the page. [17:55] >> Okay. [17:55] >> Oh, man. If you got extra time, I [17:57] haven't played a game this addicting in [17:58] a while. And maybe you don't like [17:59] addicting games, but it's uh it's called [18:01] Ball Pit. And maybe you've heard of it. [18:03] You're It's Do you remember Breaker or [18:05] Breakout or [18:06] >> Yeah, Breakout. I remember Break Out. [18:08] >> Okay. So many variants of this game, [18:09] right? So imagine that like instead of [18:10] your paddle just being stationary and [18:12] you're breaking bricks, imagine those [18:15] bricks are like little enemies that get [18:17] spawned for you and then you're you're [18:18] moving north. So you're slowly [18:21] progressing and you have to take out [18:22] these enemies as they keep coming in. [18:25] They change up so it's not just a brick [18:26] anymore. It's kind of like a little dude [18:28] that might take two hits, might take [18:30] four hits. He might try to shoot you [18:31] with fire or whatever. And as you're [18:33] going, you keep collecting these mods to [18:35] your character. So it's kind of like [18:36] Risk of Rain. It's very rog light or [18:38] rogue legacy, right? And you're [18:39] modifying your balls. So, it's like your [18:41] balls get hotter. Your balls get cold. [18:45] Now, I'm just going to lean in. [18:47] >> They get sweaty. [18:48] >> They just start to droop a little more. [18:50] >> Oh, man. You evolve your balls. You can [18:52] I'm like, what else does this? You can [18:54] fuse your balls. You can There's ball [18:56] fusion. Anyway, your character like gets [18:58] more powerful, but then like more [18:59] enemies show up and then like [19:00] >> fuse. [19:01] >> If you collect your ball before it hits [19:03] the back, you can shoot your ball again [19:05] sooner. And so there's like these weird [19:06] like little things, but it's like wildly [19:09] addicting and it's super fun. You're [19:11] just sort of And then after you have [19:13] attempted the level or whatever, you go [19:15] back to your base and then like now it's [19:17] a base builder. And so you build a base. [19:19] You need to farm things. You need to [19:20] build your city and then you can launch [19:23] all the heroes you've unlocked through [19:25] the city like like a pinball machine. [19:27] And everything they bounce off is like a [19:29] resource you get. And so it's just it's [19:31] this stupid weird game where you're [19:32] like, I'm going to go dig into this [19:33] level and try to beat it. Then I'm going [19:34] to go back to my village and make my [19:36] character and my stuff better and then [19:38] go back in. And there's different [19:39] characters with different powers. All [19:41] these different balls that you can [19:42] launch. Ball pit. I don't know. It's [19:44] really great. [19:45] >> Okay. And this is available on Steam on. [19:48] >> I think it's everywhere. Steam Switch. [19:50] It's like wherever we want it to be. [19:52] >> Everywhere. Balls are fused. [19:54] >> Balls are fused. You want to fuse some [19:55] balls? Check out ball pit. Okay. Pretty [19:58] good. [19:58] >> I mean games. I have a very narrow [20:01] >> soccer, right? [20:02] >> Yeah. I mean FIFA. So, I've been playing [20:05] FIFA. There was one that was released, I [20:09] think, on like GOG. It's the one that [20:11] was like DRM free games. So, Gogg.com, [20:15] and I discovered it through Amazon Prime [20:18] games, which is now like Luna and all [20:20] that other weird [ __ ] But anyway, it [20:22] was called Rue Valley, and it's a very [20:24] story driven one, and you're on this [20:27] like weird time loop, [20:29] >> and you can make all these weird choices [20:31] as you're going. That was one I played a [20:33] bit recently. Then I hit a point where I [20:36] was like, "Okay, I can't do this time [20:38] loop 36 more times." So, [20:39] >> what's that movie? He's in a time loop. [20:41] Momento. [20:42] >> Yeah, Momento is definitely it. Yeah, [20:44] that would be one. I'd say it's more [20:46] momentoesque. [20:48] >> No. [20:48] >> Okay. [20:49] >> So, that's one to check out. But I [20:50] really want to play the new Indiana [20:52] Jones the and the great circle or [20:54] whatever. [20:55] >> Whoa. [20:56] >> I didn't know they had a game. [20:58] >> Me neither. [20:58] >> Yeah. And I like an adventure game with [21:00] a story. I'm I'm trying to play a story [21:02] if I'm getting in there. So like [21:04] >> I imagine it's going to be like uh like [21:07] Uncharted style or something. Have you [21:09] played Uncharted? [21:10] >> Is this Bethesda coming in 2026? [21:13] >> Whoa. Bethesda talking about [21:15] >> No, it it exists now. So Indiana [21:20] Jones game and the great circle. What [21:22] are you talking about? Like [21:23] >> the great circle. [21:24] >> And the great circle the dial exists [21:26] right now coming out. Okay, here's the [21:28] great circle. I see it. Yeah. No, it [21:30] says coming to Switch in 2026. Okay. [21:31] >> Oh, yeah. Well, you don't want that [ __ ] [21:33] on Switch anyway. [21:34] >> It says Bethesda. [21:36] >> Everything Bethesda puts out is fire. [21:38] So, would play [21:39] >> and it's on sale right now through [21:41] gogg.com for like 60 bucks or something [21:44] for the $100 version. So, I'm like, [21:46] >> but you can also play Bethesda [21:49] Softworks. [21:50] >> Exactly. You can play it for free right [21:52] now though through Amazon Luna. And I [21:55] think if you're Prime members, which you [21:57] all are, did you know your Prime [21:59] membership does not transfer overseas? [22:02] Amazon.it is just one thing. [22:05] >> It's annoying. [22:06] >> When you try to log in is just go [22:08] Allora. [22:09] >> Allora create a new account, which I did [22:12] because I don't want to pay like import [22:14] fees. Which, by the way, I got my [22:17] celebration whiskey today, but I had to [22:19] pay cash money to get it because FedEx [22:22] is like cash delivery. Yeah. Well, no, [22:25] it was paid for there, but I had to pay [22:28] the import tax and I had to pay it in [22:30] cash and I had no idea. Nothing said. [22:32] Guy shows up and is like, give me, you [22:34] know, he's like, give me 50 bucks. And [22:36] I'm like, I don't have 50 bucks. [22:38] >> I don't you don't have a package. And [22:40] he's like, I'm going to come back in 3 [22:42] hours. Go get 50 bucks. I'm like, okay. [22:45] >> Well, [22:45] >> yeah. [22:46] >> Hopefully, you found an ATM because [22:48] there were would definitely be no people [22:50] working that could give you cash. [22:52] >> No. Yeah. I try to interact with the [22:54] least amount of humans possible. Mostly [22:56] because I have the least amount of [22:58] language possible. It's great. [23:00] >> I mean, they all do English though, [23:02] probably at least probably better than [23:04] your Italian. [23:04] >> The government people. Yeah, the [23:06] government people. No, they don't. They [23:08] don't [ __ ] with that. It gets real hard. [23:09] My favorite part is at the grocery [23:11] store. I think you can do this at places [23:14] in the States, but whatever. like you [23:16] have your loyalty card and I go and I [23:18] scan it and I get a scanner and I take [23:21] my scanner and as I'm shopping I just [23:24] scan my product, put it in the bag, scan [23:25] my product, put it in the bag, whatever. [23:27] At the end I go to this little station, [23:29] scan my scanner in and it's like great. [23:32] It costs this much. I pay and I leave. [23:35] Never talk to a human. [23:37] >> It's perfect. [23:38] >> It's amazing. I love this. And this [23:41] isn't just a language thing. I just [23:42] don't want to talk to people while I'm [23:44] shopping. [23:44] >> Oh yeah. And I don't want to go [23:46] >> to I mean the problem is is that so many [23:49] places in the states have eliminated [23:52] like the whole like human line where [23:54] they scan things and somebody bags for [23:56] you. It's all selfch checkckout. And I [23:58] do not work here. So if I have to work [24:00] here, I want to just get done as I'm [24:03] shopping and leave. I brought a bag, I [24:06] scan my stuff, I pay you and I leave. If [24:10] I have to go through an area where I [24:12] have to scan through and do my own [24:14] bagging, then I work here and I don't [24:17] like to work here. [24:18] >> Yeah. So, [24:19] >> yes, we familiar with your your thoughts [24:22] on that. Yeah. [24:24] >> Yeah. Have you seen the the Whole Foods [24:25] ones where it's like Dashlane or [24:28] something like that? You get a cart that [24:30] has a builtin [24:31] >> it has a built-in scanner and thing to [24:33] weigh stuff on. So you can put your [24:34] produce on the scale and it like, you [24:36] know, put it all in there and you put [24:38] your bags in first and it scans like how [24:40] much they weigh, I guess. Yeah. You just [24:42] walk out like you're walking through and [24:44] it's like, "Hit this line to like [24:46] confirm everything. Hit this line to [24:48] like charge your credit card on file." [24:50] Like you don't do anything but just walk [24:51] out. It's awesome. I don't know. But [24:53] when I was in Seattle and Adam and I did [24:57] Build and we did our podcast at Build, [24:59] when I went to go buy the whiskey for [25:02] our shows, [25:04] >> we went to this. Yeah. You remember [25:05] that? Did you go with me? I don't even [25:07] remember. I did, but I know we walk in, [25:10] >> we like scan your card, you get what you [25:13] want, and then you just left with your [25:16] [ __ ] [25:16] >> It was amazing. [25:17] >> There were humans just monitoring what [25:19] you put in. [25:20] >> Yeah. They were kind of like, maybe him, [25:22] maybe not him. I don't know. Yeah. [25:24] >> So, wait. I'm I'm a little confused. [25:26] You're totally down with working for the [25:29] grocery store as you put things in your [25:31] cart, but you're not down to work for [25:33] the grocery store if it's all done at [25:35] the end. And then this just reminds me [25:37] of like web performance. Like you've got [25:39] uh you can just in time, you know, make [25:42] your little purchases and build your [25:43] cart or you can just gather all your [25:45] stuff and then show up in a waterfall [25:47] strategy. And it's like pick your way. [25:49] You you still did the work either way, [25:50] Chuck. It's kind of what I'm I'm like [25:52] getting to. [25:53] >> True. But like think about it this way. [25:54] >> Take it out again. [25:56] >> Yeah. Like I was already going to draw [26:00] these things in my cart or whatever. [26:02] Like I have the little cart thing and I [26:04] just put my bag in that and I can either [26:07] just grab the thing from the shelf, [26:08] throw it in there or I can scan it real [26:11] quick as I do it and then be done. And [26:14] so that's where they get me. Sure. They [26:16] can. [26:16] >> It's like apps versus the website. Yeah. [26:18] which is funny that they do that here [26:20] because they're all about maintaining [26:22] employment for as many people as [26:24] possible. They're not trying to [26:25] eliminate jobs here or make anything [26:27] that much easier. So, I don't know where [26:29] this came from, but I like the magic. [26:33] >> Yeah, it's probably not Italian-owned. [26:35] >> Esolonga, you know, you guys all go to [26:37] Esolonga, right? [26:38] >> No, [26:39] >> sure don't. [26:40] >> We do have Lidle here, which is a German [26:42] company, and they don't do that. They do [26:45] some other stuff. Are they the ones [26:46] where you have to like give them a [26:47] quarter to get a cart? [26:49] >> Every place give a euro to get a cart. [26:52] That's just the thing. [26:53] >> Well, I mean here too, like I think they [26:55] do it here. You have to have a quarter [26:56] and no one has quarters cuz who the [ __ ] [26:58] has a quarter ever? [26:59] >> Like, [26:59] >> right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I never have [27:02] cash. We just keep euros like in a few [27:05] places [27:06] >> just for getting carts here, which is [27:08] pretty funny. [27:10] >> One euro is going to stop me from [27:11] stealing a cart. I don't know. If I'm a [27:13] homeless person and I get the one euro, [27:15] I'm like, well, I own a cart now. [27:17] >> Yeah. [27:17] >> Should we talk about web at all or do [27:19] you all want to go back to uh [27:22] >> what is web? [27:23] >> You know, this thing that we [27:25] >> do we write code now? I'm a I'm a [27:27] permanent tech lead. Have you guys tried [27:30] Big Pickle? I have. [27:32] >> Uh yes, that's an open code, right? [27:34] >> Yeah. And that was their own model. [27:36] >> I just tried open code this week for the [27:38] first time. You both kept talking so [27:39] much [ __ ] about it. And I saw other [27:41] people talking [ __ ] about it and I was [27:42] like, "Okay, well, [27:43] >> good [ __ ] about it." [27:44] >> Good [ __ ] about it. [27:46] >> Talking [ __ ] usually means bad things. [27:48] >> Yeah. Yeah. [27:49] >> Listen, youngster. Talking [ __ ] means [27:52] bad things. And we mean it in a good [27:54] way. [27:54] >> I'm reversing the way that it works, old [27:57] man. You know, I'm going to take [27:58] ownership of that. I'm going to talk [28:00] some good [ __ ] [28:02] >> Some of that goody good [ __ ] Yeah, I [28:04] liked it. It was great. It wasn't as [28:06] good as Warp. I'm still on a Warp train. [28:08] Although I don't get to use Warp at [28:09] work. I'm still warping at home, but now [28:11] I'm open coding at home. I don't know. [28:13] I'm trying them all. Just trying to [28:14] figure out what's going on. [28:15] >> Oh, for sure. Cast a wide net. I say [28:17] that for sure. [28:18] >> But I brought up the like web topic cuz [28:20] uh there's people this week, multiple [28:22] different people from different angles [28:24] going, "Hey, if I'm just prompting now [28:27] mostly and managing agents like a [28:29] manager and I'm orchestrating tasks and [28:32] running [ __ ] in parallel and look at all [28:33] this cool stuff I'm doing, I'm spending [28:35] tokens. I haven't written code. I [28:37] haven't touched the code in days. Why am [28:40] I even Typescripting? I'm noticing that [28:42] Typescript is actually maybe 40% of the [28:45] stupid ass errors that AI is fixing. So, [28:49] how about we just eliminate TypeScript [28:50] and we go straight towards me just [28:52] prompting because I don't care about the [28:53] code. TypeScript was for me and for all [28:55] the sharing that we did in the [28:56] understanding a doesn't give a crap [28:58] about that. All it does is run TS [29:01] though like if it has the type guard [29:03] rails. It depends on how robust your [29:05] code is. I guess it does a lot of code. [29:07] >> We're just projecting on the agent like [29:09] it cares about types though. Like maybe [29:11] all of its connections that it's making [29:13] are just not type related. So anyway, [29:16] there's there's a group of people going, [29:17] do I even need types? Are types dead in [29:20] a world of AIdriven code development? [29:22] And then the other one is CMS's. What do [29:24] I need a CMS for if all I want to do is [29:26] talk to my website and say make this [29:29] change over here? I don't care where the [29:30] data is stored. In fact, it's in my way [29:33] to even have a database [29:35] >> if I want to change text. [29:36] >> Oh my gosh. So, these are very desperate [29:39] conversations though. [29:41] >> Are they though? They're people want [29:44] they're desperate conversations. [29:46] >> So, yes, Typescript is for the humans [29:49] initially, right? They're [29:51] >> It's almost like pre-commit hooks. they [29:54] came into play because you're a tech [29:57] lead that was trying to corral too many [29:59] people or something. And I do think of [30:02] myself as a tech lead a lot when I'm [30:05] working with AI and agents and agentic [30:08] coding flows and yada yada. Right? So [30:10] that's what I am is I'm like we're [30:12] planning, we're planning, we're [30:13] planning, we're planning, and now I want [30:15] to see what you're going to do. Okay, I [30:17] agree. And now I see what you did. Do I [30:20] still agree? Okay, we're going to revise [30:22] over that. and then we push. I mean, [30:24] that's very much a tech lead kind of [30:26] role and it's micromanagy, [30:29] but you know, that's I think that's the [30:32] world we're in. [30:33] >> This just in, whiskey.fund is now open [30:36] for all your merch needs. [30:38] >> That's right, Robbie. We're hearing [30:40] reports of hats, sweaters, and t-shirts, [30:43] as well as a link to join our Discord [30:45] server. What's a Discord server? Just [30:49] read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. [30:51] Leave us a review on your favorite [30:52] podcast app and tell your friends about [30:54] our broadcast. It really does help us [30:57] reach more people and keeps the show [30:58] growing. All right, back to your [31:00] regularly scheduled programming. [31:05] >> Well, I feel like types like if you're [31:08] doing a very continuous agentic [31:11] workflow, like you want to let it go and [31:13] just like leave for an hour and come [31:15] back, I think the types would be helpful [31:17] because then it would go like I'm going [31:19] to throw in random [ __ ] Yeah, I'm going [31:21] to throw in random [ __ ] and it goes, [31:23] "Oh, I got an error." But like [31:24] JavaScript errors say you do bad me not [31:27] know why. And then so like if you have a [31:29] TypeScript error that's like, "Oh, we [31:31] expected it to look like this and it [31:33] looked like this." And it goes, "Oh [31:34] [ __ ] you're right. I agree. [31:35] >> You're absolutely right." Like [31:37] >> in that world, I think that like, yeah, [31:40] sure, the humans took it into play, but [31:43] I think for a reason, and I think we're [31:45] surrounded by very robust juniors for a [31:49] bit. And I think the types still give us [31:51] good guard rails. [31:52] >> Types are small guards though. Like [31:54] think about how wasteful so many guards [31:56] are where you're like, "Oh, hey, I just [31:58] did the task you needed, but I noticed [32:00] that there's a type discrepancy between [32:02] HTML element and HTML div element. Let [32:05] me go ahead and spend a bunch of money [32:06] and refix that. Oh [ __ ] I fixed that." [32:08] And it turns out there's I'm like, this [32:10] is so ridiculous. The code has worked [32:12] since day one. And you know, like [32:14] >> maybe you should spend more time in [32:15] planning mode. I don't know. Right. You [32:18] have to let it know like if the types [32:20] pass, even if it's not like 100% the [32:22] right type, quote unquote, I think you [32:25] have to say like that's fine. Don't try [32:26] to change it if the types are saying [32:28] we're cool. Like there's not a better [32:30] one. [32:31] >> Use the one that I [32:33] >> even if you ask an agent to just fix the [32:35] types though in a project, it screws [32:37] that up all the time. So it clearly [32:38] doesn't have some sort of master [32:40] intelligence like an LSP does. This [32:42] thing is just trying to infer [32:44] >> type connections between things. [32:47] You you mentioned specs though, which is [32:49] the next most sort of like extreme [32:51] concept of this. So people are like, who [32:53] cares about types? Who cares about a [32:54] CMS? I'm just going to work on flat [32:56] files. So now my entire project is now [32:59] consumable instantly. Spectdriven [33:01] development says CMS doesn't matter. [33:04] >> Created to take these changes out of [33:08] developer hands, though. So, I'm not [33:10] sure it's like this. [33:11] >> That's kind of what I mean. It's like if [33:12] people are if people are prompting their [33:14] way to a sol because think about like a [33:16] client. How many times have you handed [33:17] off a CMS to a client and they've been [33:19] like, "Uh, I need to change the homepage [33:22] text and they write you an email instead [33:24] of going to the CMS." This is so [33:26] classic. [33:28] But then what are you going to do? [33:29] You're going to have them prompt and [33:31] then you're going to have the prompt [33:33] because at the end of the day, are they [33:34] doing that much prompting? [33:35] >> We're moving towards a scenario where we [33:37] don't code. I don't think people are [33:39] going to code for much longer. We're [33:40] like moving straight towards like I know [33:41] so many people right now that have never [33:43] coded in their life and they're building [33:44] websites. They're actually taking over [33:46] aspects of the business that have to do [33:48] with digital entities because they can [33:50] prompt their way in. You know, [33:51] >> I welcome that. But I think there's a [33:53] ceiling and I think that the people I [33:56] don't know that we are in a CMS world [33:59] quite yet because there is too much of a [34:02] convolution between the code and the [34:05] content without that. so far. But if you [34:09] have created a site like okay there are [34:11] CMS's that are essentially drawing from [34:15] Google Docs right or Markdown files [34:20] >> table yeah and those things [34:23] >> could probably work pretty good in this [34:25] context like that's going to get better [34:27] and they can prompt away their content [34:31] and it can get drawn in automatically [34:33] and there doesn't have to be a CMS in [34:35] the middle I can see that world for a [34:38] while. I don't see a world where they [34:41] are prompting in the same space as you [34:43] and I for a bit. I don't know. Who [34:46] knows? Accelerated like timelines. I say [34:49] 3 years and then all of a sudden it's 3 [34:51] months. Who knows? [34:52] >> So many times that like if you didn't [34:55] understand what you want to build, at [34:57] least like a you know a base technical [35:00] knowledge of what it should do. even if [35:02] you don't understand the code, you know, [35:04] like, oh, it shouldn't do this really [35:06] dumb thing that you're trying to do. [35:08] Whereas, like someone who doesn't know [35:09] code at all wouldn't know that and so [35:10] they might get really lost down the [35:12] wrong path. So, I agree with Chuck that [35:14] I mean, I think we are like there's [35:17] frequently times that I don't touch the [35:19] code. Like I we talked about last time, [35:20] Adam, how like at Swatch I just was [35:22] like, "Hey, build me a a magnifier tool [35:25] that picks colors, build it in Rust, [35:28] make it work on Mac OS, Windows, and [35:30] Linux." And it was like dope, I'll do it [35:32] now. I had to prompt the [ __ ] out of [35:33] that thing for like 3 weeks, but we got [35:36] there. So I think non tech will not [35:40] prompt. [35:41] >> Well, no, but nontechnical people are. [35:43] That's what I'm realizing. This is [35:44] before I even got to Shopify. I was [35:46] interviewing developers that were [35:48] spending 40 hours a week just prompting. [35:50] I thought it was ludicrous because I was [35:51] like, I [35:52] >> That's how people get $2,000 bills, [35:54] though, cuz I have never touched that. [35:55] I've never spent outside of my own [35:57] budget and I don't understand how people [36:00] are getting there because I'm running [36:02] multi- aent flows. I will use work trees [36:07] and I will work on the same codebase in [36:09] four different windows and have things [36:11] happening at the same time and I never [36:14] go beyond my budget. So I just I don't [36:16] know if that's a me problem. [36:18] >> Well, it's not gone beyond their budget. [36:20] It's more like they're just patient. I I [36:23] early on I did I did I didn't have the [36:25] patience for that. Like I was just like [36:26] I'm just gonna go do it, you know? I'm [36:28] not gonna sit here and ask nice I [36:30] parent. I'm I'm a dad. Damn it. Like I [36:32] like I'm patient with my kids. I don't [36:33] want to be patient with AI agents. I [36:35] don't want to be like Damn it. I told [36:37] you and I have and I'm prompting and I'm [36:39] prompting and I'm prompting in multiple [36:41] windows and I've never been I've never [36:43] hit limits. So I don't know what that [36:45] is. [36:46] >> Okay. What are you using that would have [36:47] a limit though? Like [36:49] >> I mean open I don't know claw. I mean, I [36:51] tip I don't know. [36:52] >> But you have like the $20 a month one. [36:54] The [36:55] >> No, my company pays for it. I don't [36:56] know. [ __ ] know, but nobody. [36:58] >> So, are they getting giant bills? You [36:59] don't know. I doubt it. No, I can see on [37:02] that. [37:03] >> I've never got the bill, but [ __ ] [37:04] somebody is. [37:06] >> Yeah. I mean, there's a ceiling on [37:07] everything and never hit the ceiling. [37:10] That's what I want to say. What what I [37:12] wanted to share was that people are [37:13] getting wild with taking this to the [37:16] extreme which is that just like we had [37:18] specdriven development which is still [37:19] looming and I still think might [37:21] legitimately take over our entire [37:23] industry where we don't what I see and [37:25] it's making me upset and I like that you [37:27] all said ceilings because I'm not [37:28] necessarily agreeing with everybody here [37:30] but is that the code is every month [37:35] becoming less and less what I give a [37:37] [ __ ] about what I actually touch and [37:40] what I of the code. We've lost that [37:43] idea. [37:43] >> We are losing code. And so people are [37:45] like destroying CMSs for just flat files [37:48] that AI can edit. They're removing types [37:50] for just files that AI [37:53] matter. [37:53] >> No one cares. Outcomes matter more, man. [37:55] So they don't care. So So what we're [37:57] moving towards is this space where code [37:59] doesn't matter. What matters is maybe [38:02] your spec or your ability to prompt or [38:04] your the model that you're using. We're [38:06] like, it's shifting away from what I've [38:08] spent 25 years getting good at and I [38:11] don't like it. I'm also at the same time [38:13] like [38:14] >> I maybe I do like it. Maybe I don't care [38:16] about code. Maybe all I wanted was [38:17] outcomes anyway. [38:19] >> If you do that long enough, especially [38:20] if you have a big team doing that, [38:22] you're all prompting. You got like 20 [38:24] people all prompting three years of like [38:26] giant messy code base, right? And then [38:28] you go to implement the next feature [38:30] that's actually complex and AI doesn't [38:32] 100% know how to do it and it's like I [38:34] can't. Dude, that's what today's [38:37] >> Everybody's codebase is a three to 10 [38:39] year pile of [ __ ] that I've never seen a [38:42] single code base where everyone's like, [38:43] I'm so proud of our workflows. We've got [38:46] fast V builds and we've got Dude, every [38:48] code project is a piece of garbage all [38:50] piled together. It's barely working. [38:52] Every codebase is barely working. [38:54] >> I've never known any team in 20 years [38:56] that is like, I'm proud of this soup to [38:59] nuts. [38:59] >> That's what I mean. So, so why are we [39:01] protecting that there's even this case [39:03] to to defend it always mattered more? [39:06] >> We love the green field six months. We'd [39:09] love that first six months for like [39:12] smooth and pristine and we're able to [39:14] like protect it and you know get it to [39:18] whatever thing and then somebody gets in [39:20] there and [ __ ] it up. It just it's [39:22] inevitable [39:24] >> to to our opinions though and that's the [39:27] other side of thing like you said a dad [39:30] gets more patient and I honestly think [39:32] that I've become so much more patient to [39:35] outcomes that I'm like yeah I have my [39:38] preferences I have thoughts I know what [39:41] I like but I also know what like kind of [39:43] gets us there and like that's okay [39:46] that's okay cuz I understand does [39:49] readability of the code help AI I at all [39:52] like if you uglified the entire codebase [39:55] would it understand it just as well as [39:57] if it were like this function does this [40:00] >> because you test that pretty easily by [40:02] like copy pasting that and then [40:05] >> I've also got I I've checked out so you [40:08] can hack with AI very easily so you can [40:10] look at obfuscated bundles and reverse [40:12] engineer them you can be like here's the [40:14] task I want to do in this game this game [40:15] is loading this big ass JavaScript file [40:18] I don't give a [ __ ] what's going on in [40:19] there but I do want to hack where my [40:20] character is placed at the beginning of [40:22] the level. Please place me where I win [40:24] the level immediately. And it goes boop [40:27] boop boop boop boop. Looking at all the [40:28] spots. It's like, I found the end code [40:30] where it looks for your position. I've [40:31] now set your beginning position to the [40:33] end position that makes you win. You're [40:34] like, boom. Now I'm at the top of the [40:36] leaderboards. It doesn't care or know [40:38] what's going on inside of there. It just [40:40] it's looking for relationships and [40:42] connections. And the letter D is the [40:45] same [ __ ] as get characters positional [40:48] coordinates, you know? like it just [40:50] doesn't care. [40:51] >> No. Yeah. [40:52] >> Yeah. [40:52] >> It's a computer and can read computer [40:54] talk. Turns out [40:56] >> you're essentially programming an [40:57] assembly or like something that like [41:00] like if you don't care about the [41:01] readability at all, you can make it [41:02] super efficient, super small. Be like I [41:04] don't ever want to read the code. Just [41:06] keep iterating until it does what I want [41:08] and then like your bundle will be [41:10] smaller because it's like I don't care [41:11] about like you know doing a nice loop [41:13] where you can see everything I'm doing. [41:14] I'm going to like do a reduce and like [41:16] do some gross [ __ ] and just throw it in [41:18] there and like I do think there is [41:20] definitely some of that that we won't [41:21] care as long as it works. [41:23] >> Once you have a performance issue, can [41:25] it debug that? If it can, then yeah, I [41:28] don't I don't know that you need humans [41:30] all that much. [41:31] >> Well, you need humans to drive the [41:33] reasons and the outcomes and so right [41:37] change a lot. I think our jobs change a [41:39] lot and that's an interesting thing to [41:41] train for. [41:43] I've been thinking about this a bunch [41:45] even in just like the last six months. I [41:47] think like our jobs have changed a bunch [41:50] and so like [41:51] >> they totally changed [41:52] >> traditional career ladders and like [41:55] review cycles [41:57] feel weird. They feel already kind of [42:00] useless. Oh, you write tests and like [42:03] you don't write tests. Your [ __ ] [42:05] computer writes tests. So like why are [42:07] we even talking about that anymore as [42:10] like a performance evaluation? Like no, [42:13] like how do you plan? How do you own [42:15] outcomes? Like that's kind of [42:18] >> taste and vocabulary. Yeah. It's like [42:20] what vocabulary do you have? Cuz you [42:21] need to be able to talk to these things. [42:22] You need to be able to listen to humans [42:24] that say, "Hey, Chuck, I need you to do [42:26] some shit." And you need to be able to [42:27] synthesize that, translate it into [42:29] computer talk. And now we're not [42:31] translating it into code. We're [42:32] translating it into a plan and some [42:34] orchestration for multi-agent prompting. [42:37] It's a complete change of our role. It's [42:40] bizarro, but you need taste and you need [42:43] vocabulary. And that's I I tweeted that [42:44] last week. I was like, "Holy cow, all of [42:46] this is boiling down to the words that I [42:48] know how to say." CSS is a specialty is [42:50] a superpower right now because my [42:52] vocabulary is doper than yours. So, yo, [42:55] I'm going to get better results because [42:56] I know the words that yield better [42:58] results than you. What a weird thing. It [43:00] used to be that I was good at coding and [43:02] now it's just I know some words that you [43:04] don't like. [43:04] >> Is that you understand the stack better [43:06] and that gives you something. Yeah, [43:08] that's a power becoming more important. [43:10] Yeah. [43:10] >> Yeah, I think so. [43:11] >> It all comes down to I think the same [43:14] thing that we were supposed to be doing [43:15] as senior plus engineers in the first [43:17] place is force multiplying the rest of [43:20] the team. Now, if the rest of the team [43:21] is AI agents, okay, but like you need [43:25] >> to take your knowledge and be able to [43:28] make it all like other AI agents andor [43:31] developers build from your knowledge and [43:33] make stuff way faster than if you did it [43:35] all by hand is like the entire point. So [43:37] I think if you can show that you're [43:39] doing that, I think that's how you you [43:41] go up a career ladder still like if [43:43] you're doing way more than [43:44] >> that's how you become mid to senior or [43:46] something like that. But how do you come [43:47] out of computer science programs [43:51] and demonstrate that and demonstrate [43:53] that in a way that says well you're [43:55] >> how do you get started? [43:57] >> Yeah. [43:58] >> Yeah. I don't getting started is [43:59] basically impossible right now. If [44:01] you're not already in tech I would not [44:03] recommend [44:04] who gets lucky over time, right? Like [44:06] you might have computer science [44:08] fundamentals and you vibe code until you [44:11] get lucky. I don't know. [44:12] >> Hey, there's a lot of new new roles [44:14] opening up for anybody that can vibe [44:16] code. Like I said, multiple people that [44:18] I know are now the coder at their [44:20] company because they vibe code [44:22] everything. Now, everyone else around [44:24] them doesn't give a [ __ ] that they vibe [44:26] code. No. [44:26] >> All they know is that person A is [44:29] producing results that they want. And [44:30] you know what? that person a saved them [44:33] 30 grand this quarter because they [44:35] didn't pay the developers. So like [44:38] literally you got a team of people that [44:40] actually write code and they're not [44:42] going to pay them anymore in favor of a [44:44] Vive coder. [44:45] >> I mean, you know, there's a ton of [44:47] security vulnerabilities in this. So [44:49] maybe that is sort of like the [44:51] narrowing. I don't know. They're like, [44:53] "Whatever." And then you expose a bunch [44:55] of money. [44:56] >> Security is always one of those things. [44:57] It's like, "Look, if I'm not currently [44:58] being hacked, I don't give a [ __ ] about [44:59] it, Chuck, because that costs money and [45:01] I don't have the money." And once I get [45:03] It's like accessibility also, [45:04] accessibility and security. Like, I [45:06] don't need those until someone like [45:08] wildly complains about it. And then [45:09] you're like, "Oh [ __ ] now I need it. I [45:11] need [45:12] >> It's annoying." [45:12] >> So, there's your business model. you [45:14] need to like go and hack a bunch of [45:16] people, but in a positive way just to [45:19] show like, oh, I could have and I didn't [45:22] and now you need me. Now I get your 30 [45:25] grand that you saved. [45:26] >> You didn't. [45:27] >> That was like the SWAT team I was going [45:28] to do, too. AI SWAT team. We're like, [45:30] we'll come we'll come save you from the [45:32] AI slop that you generated, but guess [45:34] what? We're going to cost twice as much [45:36] as what whatever you [45:38] an hour cuz now you're desperate. $300 [45:41] an hour. [45:42] >> Yep. 10-hour minimum, [ __ ] [45:45] >> Okay, so that was that was some AI spicy [45:48] news, which is people ditching [45:49] TypeScript, ditching CMSs, just just [45:51] hacking through prompts. And then you [45:54] had Disney show up and Disney's like, [45:56] "Hey, everybody else, all the other [45:58] artists in the world are freaking out [46:01] that they don't want to be copycatted. [46:03] They don't want Sora. They don't want [46:05] Gibli is like out there saying, "Stop [46:07] [ __ ] copying Todoro." Which also [46:09] Gibli and Todoro are in South Park [46:11] episodes this season, so you should [46:12] definitely go check it out. People are [46:14] having sex with Todoro and they're [46:15] really upset like, "Stop [ __ ] [46:17] Todoro." Anyway, but you have Disney. [46:19] Disney just showed up the other day and [46:20] they're like, "Guess what? We're giving [46:21] a billion dollars to Open AI because we [46:23] want to fill Sora with more Disney." [46:27] They were like, "Look, we're going to [46:28] make it easier for you to mimic Mickey [46:31] Mouse. Do whatever the [ __ ] you want [46:32] with Mickey. You know what? It's free [46:34] marketing in this in this weird social [46:36] network like viral market. access to [46:39] like anything you create, they can then [46:40] just make a show out of it. Like if [46:42] someone makes something on accident [46:43] that's really good, [46:44] >> hey, yeah, maybe it goes viral, they're [46:46] like, "Sweet, take that to Netflix. [46:48] There you go." [46:48] >> I mean, it's over. You know, porn is the [46:50] first ones. They're the [46:51] >> Well, that's what the South Park episode [46:53] is all about. Yeah, [46:54] >> it makes sense. [46:55] >> And yeah, the cops are super naive to [46:57] it. They're just like, "Oh god, South [46:59] Park is so good. It's like just doing [47:00] like tiny twists on [47:03] >> stuff." Geniuses. But Disney, Disney's [47:05] showing up and everybody else in the [47:07] world is like, "Fuck AI for art and [47:09] stuff." And Disney's like, "Here's a [47:10] billion dollars. We actually want to [47:11] lean in." And I'm like, [47:12] >> I mean, this is spicy. [47:14] >> They needed to spend money before the [47:16] end of the year. It's okay. [47:17] >> And there's also to us. Hey, we're [47:19] taking sponsorships, Disney [47:22] sponsored by Disney Plus. [47:24] >> Disney Plus. Plus, [47:26] >> Disney is about to make a new IDE that [47:28] can prompt and make movies. It's just a [47:33] >> Oh, no. actors. [47:37] >> Yeah. I mean, I guess there's sort of [47:39] there's a lean there, right? It's sort [47:41] of like everyone is fighting this. We [47:44] don't give a [ __ ] You know, once they [47:46] got sued by Scarlett Johansson, they [47:48] were like, "How do we stop that?" Yeah. [47:51] Okay. We got it. That's my guess. [47:53] >> I mean, Disney's doing fine. I don't [47:55] think Disney will ever be not doing [47:56] fine. I think it's interesting that [47:58] Netflix is trying to acquire uh [48:00] >> Warner Brothers. [48:01] >> Warner Brothers. Yeah. the other side. [48:04] >> I hope they do cuz I've had stock in [48:06] them forever and I'm like, "Yes, make my [48:09] second best stock I've ever invested in. [48:10] Make it better." [48:11] >> Mhm. [48:13] >> Yeah. How else can we get better? I [48:15] know. Acquire the other superhero [48:18] universe. I mean, that's it. They They [48:20] should buy [48:21] >> Harry Potter and like like everything [48:24] that you want. So then they'll be like, [48:25] "Hey, you know what? Our prices are $135 [48:29] a month now." [48:30] >> And people, you know what? I've got to [48:32] pay it. [48:34] >> Yeah, they've got a million. [48:35] >> Google wants $200 a month for latest gen [48:38] usage of their models and they're like I [48:40] don't know anyone who's going to put 200 [48:41] bucks down for AI, but you do you. [48:44] >> Okay, so this this comes back to you [48:46] know the spending and the tokens and the [48:48] never hitting the ceiling cuz like I [48:50] always hit the ceiling at the $20 a [48:52] month claude code. So I'm like going [48:54] along and open code [48:56] >> cuz [48:58] yes anyway inside joke I don't get it. [49:01] It's over my head. [49:02] >> I'll share the meme later. Povo cuz [49:04] you're POVO. Cuz you're not rich. [49:07] >> Yeah. [49:07] >> I'm not. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. [49:09] >> No, none of us. [49:10] >> Anyway, so I'll hit that limit and then [49:11] open code will go waiting for like [49:15] 150,000 seconds like come back and I'm [49:19] like sweet. [49:21] So like then I'm like well I'm addicted [49:23] to this [ __ ] so I'm going to switch to [49:24] the one where I pay for it. So anyway, [49:26] all that to say, if you're paying for [49:28] each thing and each thing you do is a [49:30] dollar, $5, whatever, is it worth the [49:33] $200 a month, if you're doing it a lot, [49:35] I think it is because like [49:36] >> it is. It's annoying. [49:38] >> Yeah. [49:38] >> And if I pay developers to build this [49:40] [ __ ] I'd pay them like $10,000. So $200 [49:44] is cheap. [49:45] >> Yeah. I ain't got I I don't have time [49:47] these days as a parent. It's really [49:48] annoying. I'm being pulled in. I have I [49:50] don't even have time for me. Everything [49:52] in my life wants attention. AI has [49:54] enabled me to ship stuff that I wouldn't [49:56] have otherwise shipped. It's like [49:58] annoying to even say out loud, but it's [50:00] legit. I don't want this water drinking, [50:03] society crushing thing to exist in this [50:06] world, but at the same time, it is [50:08] saving me time and there's a lot to deal [50:11] with in terms of AI in that space. [50:13] That's why it's so weird that Disney's [50:15] like leaning in and you have other [50:16] people that are like leaning far out. [50:17] It's so polarizing AI and I also feel [50:20] like it's a career. I have to. There is [50:22] no choice. I have to. And so now I have [50:24] to stay up to date on AI, which is [50:26] really hard, which is also something I [50:27] hope people are getting out of this show [50:28] is that us three, we're staying up to [50:30] date on AI. It's hard to stay up to date [50:32] on AI. Maybe us sharing these weird [50:34] little details and sh like how I use it, [50:37] what's going on in the industry, like [50:39] this is helping other people because you [50:41] can't ignore it. This isn't web 3. This [50:43] is totally something else. This is way [50:45] we're like far beyond it. NFTTS. This [50:48] isn't like fun little dumb listen to [50:50] Robbie and lose money situation. Like [50:53] this is actually [50:55] >> that's every situation. Anytime I give [50:57] you advice, you will lose money. [50:59] >> Yeah. And I can tell you from [51:01] experience, he's not lying. [51:03] >> I make No. Okay. This is how it works. I [51:04] make all the right investments, but at [51:07] all the wrong times. [51:08] >> Yeah. Yeah. You're late or early, and [51:11] then I sell it, and then it goes up like [51:12] a ton. [51:13] >> Yeah. [51:13] >> Like either way. [51:14] >> Yeah. Mostly it just doesn't happen. [51:17] >> I have some dumb JPEGs because of you [51:21] and I lost money on some other things [51:24] because of you. [51:25] >> Mhm. Yep. That's okay. [51:28] >> Yeah, [51:28] >> we're doing all right. [51:30] >> Yeah. So, you know what's not losing is [51:32] the the web. The web still is alive. It [51:34] seems to be still a render target for [51:36] like everything. I wonder if that'll [51:38] change with AI. Like I'm think Okay, [51:40] here's a here's a thought process. [51:42] Sorry, I'm bringing it back. Damn it. [51:43] I've been uh using this app called [51:45] Artifact on my iPhone. It's an iPhone [51:47] app that makes other iPhone apps through [51:49] prompts. I don't love this app. I don't [51:51] have any affinity to this app. Hey, this [51:53] episode is sponsored by Artifact. Make [51:55] apps from your iPhone. [51:56] >> Yeah. [51:57] >> No, it's not brought to you by [51:59] FourthWall. [52:00] >> Whiskey.fm. You can also have this [52:04] whiskey with us. [52:06] >> Would you like 70,000 impressions on [52:08] your name? Oh, that's good. But the idea [52:10] that like it actually spawned for me [52:11] that could be more interesting. Okay, [52:14] hang with me. I don't think it'll take [52:16] that long to explain. The web is very [52:18] cool because you hit a URL and it's just [52:21] in time problem solving, just in time [52:23] solutioning, just in time information. [52:25] Okay, but your device is not that. You [52:28] have to download apps. The the apps are [52:30] all front-loaded. You download all these [52:31] bytes just to access tiny bits of it [52:33] sometimes. So what if you took the power [52:36] of the web in terms of its just in time [52:38] offerings but made it so that it was [52:41] native so that you had just in time [52:43] native app. Okay, I know both of you are [52:45] building tools for yourself with AI. [52:47] There's times when you're just like I [52:49] have I need to understand this. So I'm [52:51] going to build a small tool just from a [52:52] throwaway tool. Now imagine your entire [52:56] operating system was throwaway apps. You [52:59] don't need Google maps. Why the [ __ ] [53:01] would I need Google maps? I can just [53:02] just in time a map for myself. Why would [53:04] I order through Uber Eats when I can [53:06] just in time build an agent that goes [53:08] and orders me some food? So, it's like [53:10] I'm imagining an entire operating [53:12] system, an entire lifestyle of just in [53:15] time tools, just but not tools at this [53:17] point. Just in time apps, so they [53:19] perform at high quality. They're made [53:21] for me. They take all my preferences [53:23] everywhere I go. It's all the same [ __ ] [53:25] the web has, but you converge it onto [53:28] the native operating system for battery [53:30] savings, speed savings, less time over [53:32] the network, and you sort of try to [53:34] frontload things as much as you can. So [53:35] that like is that interesting? Would you [53:37] go get a new operating system that's [53:40] sort of like just in time to everything [53:41] for you? There was no app store bas I'm [53:44] I'm basically pitching right now. No app [53:46] stores. It's just text boxes. It's like [53:48] I have a problem. Here's my problem. [53:49] It's not like rabbit where I'm like [53:51] trying to talk to, you know, my Anyway, [53:53] I want something that still has a gooey, [53:55] still has I'm still tapping through. I'm [53:57] still feeling in control, but I'm not a [53:59] slave to the walled garden, which is why [54:02] the web is so dope, right? There is no [54:03] walled garden. This is a a free-for-all [54:06] space, a URL. Since I've been stuck by [54:09] location often sometimes there's like [54:13] apps here I can't install unless I [54:16] destroy my entire Apple profile and then [54:20] create a new one on this region. I'm [54:22] like well I can't do that just to order [54:24] a [ __ ] pizza. I just want to order a [54:26] pizza. [54:28] >> No. Can't you just open your window and [54:30] go hey I want a pizza [54:33] boret [54:34] una pizza. You got to work on that. [54:37] Yeah. Your Italian's not that great, [54:38] dude. [54:39] >> It's not. Yeah. [54:43] >> Did you know that you have la pizza and [54:47] le pizza? [54:48] >> Is that one or two pizzas? [54:50] >> Multiple pizzas are le [54:53] >> Oh, that's like French. [54:54] >> Cappuccino and cappuccini. [54:55] >> So, does Italy have the same thing where [54:57] everything has a male or female? Um, [55:00] >> yeah. [55:00] >> Okay. So, then when you said la, so it's [55:02] a a pizza is female. [55:04] >> Yeah. Apparently, [55:04] >> at least in French, a law a law [55:06] something would mean it's a feminine [55:09] >> which never made sense like [55:11] >> is this hammer? [55:11] >> They got all confused. It's like that [55:13] does not scale over time. That worked [55:14] really good in the 1800s or whatever, [55:16] right? It's like it's not scaling to [55:18] now. [55:19] >> Yeah, it doesn't scale. And also when [55:21] things become plural, it becomes weird. [55:23] So you can be like me [55:26] and then you're like me. [55:31] Oo, that's even harder than French. [55:34] >> Oh my god. Yeah, cuz I learned French. [55:36] Actually, I I took French from fourth [55:39] grade to like 10th grade and then a [55:42] little in college. [55:44] >> Robbie, too. You're nodding your head [55:45] like you took French. [55:47] >> I'll say it though. [55:48] >> Okay. He doesn't speak French. K. What [55:50] do you remember, Chuck? What What you [55:52] got? [55:52] >> I mean, I understood that he doesn't [55:54] speak French. So, yeah. Uh there's all [55:58] kinds of things and they're like, "Oh, I [56:00] sleep." And then like dor dormier [56:04] and I'm like oh dor dormier that's like [56:08] same as French. There's some overlaps [56:10] but I don't know not that much. All the [56:13] >> I'm 804. [56:14] >> Yeah. [56:15] >> All the Latinbased stuff is like you can [56:17] figure it out given enough time. Like if [56:19] there's a sign and I'm trying to figure [56:20] out what this sign means, [56:22] >> just give me 25 minutes and I'll tell [56:23] you. But like [56:25] >> yeah, [56:25] >> you know in Italian they they say every [56:29] letter. So like in French you can kind [56:32] of like flow through it and you [56:34] >> skip the last like five letters in [56:36] French. Yeah. [56:36] >> No, they say them all. [56:38] >> Informatica. [56:40] >> That is our job. That's what we do. [56:43] Informatica. [56:44] >> Yeah. They have to say them all so that [56:46] you can get all of the vowels. [56:48] >> There has to be more vowels. [56:50] >> Like it feels like they just took French [56:52] or Spanish and we're like, you know [56:53] what? It needs like way more vowels than [56:56] it has. [56:57] >> Yeah. Italian is based on Florentine [57:01] dialect. So, Florence was like the [57:04] centralized language chosen because it [57:07] had more vowels and sounded more like [57:10] singongy. [57:12] >> It does sound nice. [57:14] >> Yeah, I'm bad at Italian. Adam, [57:16] >> it's all good. [57:17] >> Thanks for calling. [57:18] >> You'll get there, dude. Your kids are [57:19] going to be way better than you. You'll [57:21] just be the old man yelling at the [57:23] cloud. [57:23] >> I barely bad Italian, you know. I'm [57:26] going to get a nicer one though. A nicer [57:28] apartment to not leave. [57:30] >> Of course. [57:31] >> Yeah, that's my plan. [57:32] >> If you never leave your apartment, why [57:34] does it matter what country you're in? [57:36] >> Good question. Cuz the groceries that [57:38] come in are nicer. [57:41] >> Oh, yeah. [57:42] >> Yeah, that's one. [57:43] >> Is the first ingredient not palm oil and [57:45] everything you get from the store? [57:47] >> No, [57:49] it isn't. [57:50] >> Oh, man. Did you did you hear the [57:51] comparison that I came back from Japan [57:53] and was like Japan eats the web platform [57:56] and the primitives? You know, like [57:58] they're eating HTML, CSS, and [57:59] JavaScript. And in America, we eat React [58:01] apps all day. We just eat some bashed [58:04] up, smashed up, ground up, full of [58:07] preservatives, jam-packed with [ __ ] we [58:09] didn't ask for, turned into some [58:11] monstrosity of food, and then we eat it [58:13] and we say, "Thank you very much." [58:15] >> I mean, that's episode. [58:19] >> Yeah. We don't have Taco Bell here. [58:22] >> Yeah. Surprising. [58:23] >> You're not missing out, man. Good or [58:24] bad. You got to drive an hour for KFC [58:26] >> on a delivery app that I could order [58:29] KFC. And I'm kind of scared. [58:32] >> I'm a little scared. [58:33] >> Why I said that, dude? So many people [58:35] are in Europe and they're like, you [58:36] visit and they're like, "Let me take you [58:38] to this really yummy spot." And you're [58:39] like, "Oh, hells yeah. Let's go local. [58:41] Let me have something that's like [58:42] unique." And they go to KFC and you're [58:44] like, "Son of a [ __ ] man. I have this [58:46] at home and it sucks. Like, why are you [58:48] eating this over the crispy [58:50] All the fried chicken KFC worst fried [58:53] chicken hot take. [58:54] >> Yeah, it is. You're not wrong. Like [58:57] Korean fried chicken, like legit Korean [58:59] fried chicken. [59:01] >> Bonchan's the best. [59:03] >> No doubt. No dity. And you only [ __ ] [59:06] yourself for like 3 days afterwards. [59:08] >> That's the spice. That has nothing to do [59:10] with the fries. [59:11] >> South Park episode about that, too. [59:12] Chipotle. [59:13] >> If you get the soy ginger, that doesn't [59:16] happen, Robbie. You just choose. I like [59:18] uh I don't even know what it's called, [59:20] but I like the spicy and sweet one. I [59:22] forget what they call it, but [59:23] >> I don't know. I agree. The spicy one is [59:26] the most delicious, [59:27] >> but if you don't get it, you don't [ __ ] [59:29] your pants. [59:30] >> Turns out [59:31] >> Well, worth worth. I'm not old enough [59:33] that I care yet. [59:35] >> Yeah, same. Same. Even me now, I would [59:38] come back and be like, "Worth it. [59:40] Wearing a diaper. Don't care." [59:42] >> Oh, man. Yeah. That just reminds me. I [59:44] was watching Bob's Burgers and they're [59:46] like, "I don't I don't need to do the [59:48] whole quote, but like the dad Bob is [59:50] like, "Oh, I'm the same age as this [59:51] guy." And his daughter's like, "Wait, [59:54] they're 89? [59:59] >> Oh god, man. It's weird having a seven [60:02] and nine-year-old." Oh, we at time. [60:03] Yeah, let's do. [60:04] >> We are at time. Yeah, we are over time. [60:06] >> Can I go out with a song? I want to try [60:07] and play a Christmas song. [60:08] >> Do it. [60:08] >> Go ahead. [60:09] >> Do it. [60:10] >> I'll sing it. [60:11] >> This is Christmas. [60:12] >> I'm hoping it even like picks up on the [60:14] mic. So, let me know if it's not. We'll [60:16] just cut it out. [60:17] >> So over. [60:19] >> So I win. [60:20] >> I also don't play in this standing [60:21] position, so it's going to be a little [60:22] weird. You can try to talk over it, [60:23] though. Yeah, go ahead. [60:24] >> No. [60:25] >> Uh, that's a Zelda. That's not what I [60:27] want. Uh, [60:28] >> oh, no. I want that. [60:29] >> Uh, you do. Okay. Here, we'll do Jingle [60:31] Bells. [60:40] >> Oh [ __ ] [60:49] Are you ready? [60:57] I'm messing up. It's all good. No one [61:00] knows. [61:07] How about super fast? Ready? [61:12] Oh. He's [61:15] expelling a lot of energy right now. [61:23] >> Nice. [61:25] >> I gave Robbie a banjo. I've never heard [61:27] one banjo. [61:29] >> I have not played it. I don't even play [61:31] my guitars. I don't have time for that [61:32] [ __ ] [61:33] >> Oh man, I steal it. I steal time for [61:36] instrument time. I It's not given to me. [61:38] I don't have time to do anything for me [61:40] in this entire world for this has been [61:41] anyway I'm gonna like [61:43] >> I'm upset about it. This this is time [61:45] but I have to like calendarize my time [61:47] and it's really annoying. I don't want [61:48] to calendarize like guitar time. [61:50] >> You can categorize work. [61:52] >> I don't know how guitar works on that. [61:56] But [61:56] >> I get my guitar off the wall and I play [61:58] one chord and like [62:00] >> my son somehow notices from like [62:02] upstairs and goes, "Hi, can I take [62:04] that?" And I'm like, "Sure. [62:08] The problem is you don't like brush your [62:10] hair over your eye a little bit. [62:13] >> Well, it's it's growing out. I'm growing [62:15] the bangs. [62:16] >> That's a throwback to his like emo days. [62:20] >> I was doing back hair for like five plus [62:23] years. So, [62:24] >> oh, we did we look up Gar Brooks emo. [62:26] Have you seen Gar Brooks who turned and [62:28] his whole album? [62:28] >> I don't know. But my band had a song [62:30] called Gar Brooks for No Reason. [62:33] >> So, [62:33] >> wow. [62:34] >> Oh, man. He totally went emo. Dyed his [62:36] hair dark over [62:38] >> Chris whatever his name was. Chris [62:40] something. [62:40] >> Chris Angel. [62:41] >> No, that's a He had emo hair, didn't he? [62:45] >> No. Yeah, but you know that's a [62:48] magician. [62:49] >> You're my darling. [62:51] >> Well, this has gone downhill. We should [62:53] >> Okay, on that note, [62:56] >> bye. [62:57] >> Okay, mine. [63:01] You've been watching Whiskey Web and [63:02] Whatnot recorded in front of a live [63:04] studio audience. [63:05] >> What the [ __ ] are you talking about, [63:06] Chuck? [63:08] >> Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know [63:10] people don't pay attention to these, [63:12] right? [63:13] >> Head to whiskey.f fun for merch and to [63:16] join our Discord server. I'm serious. [63:18] It's like 2% of people who actually [63:20] click these links. And don't forget to [63:22] leave us a fivestar review and tell your [63:24] friends about the show. All right, dude. [63:26] I'm out of here. Still got it.  ## 📺 Video ![](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-SC4gJCY8) --- # 📝 Full Notes (Deep-Read Analysis) # 🏷️ Title: Santa.exe (Presented by CodeRabbit) ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Try Ball Pit game — addictive rogue-lite pinball hybrid #gaming - [H2] Check out Indiana Jones and the Great Circle — new Bethesda adventure game #gaming - [H3] Consider AI SWAT team business model — fixing AI-generated code disasters #business ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [Whiskey Web and Whatnot Podcast](https://whiskeywebandwhatnotcom) - [CodeRabbit AI Code Reviews](https://coderabbit.ai) ## 📝 Summary - Holiday-themed podcast episode covering Christmas traditions and preferences - Major discussion about AI's impact on development practices and career paths - Debate over whether TypeScript and CMSs are still necessary in AI-driven development - Disney's $1 billion investment in OpenAI represents industry shift toward AI content creation - Hosts share personal whiskey tastings and game recommendations - Bottom line: Development roles are shifting from coding to prompting and orchestration ## 📖 Main Content The hosts discuss how AI is fundamentally changing software development workflows. Many developers are spending 40+ hours weekly just prompting AI tools rather than writing code directly. This has led some to question whether traditional tools like TypeScript are still necessary when AI handles most error correction. The conversation explores the tension between maintaining code quality through human-readable patterns versus letting AI optimize for pure functionality. Disney's billion-dollar partnership with OpenAI contrasts sharply with other creative industries' resistance to AI content generation. While artists and studios like Studio Ghibli oppose AI mimicking their work, Disney embraces it as marketing and content generation opportunity. The episode also covers lighter holiday topics including real vs fake Christmas trees (consensus: fake wins for convenience) and colored vs white lights preferences, alongside whiskey tastings and gaming recommendations. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=0) — [H1] Holiday Episode Introduction - Key idea: Special Christmas edition with whiskey tastings - Evidence: "This is the holiday edition of Whiskey Web and Whatnot" #### ⏱️ [05:30](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=330) — [H2] Christmas Tree Preferences - Key idea: Fake trees win for convenience despite real tree appeal - Evidence: "I love the smell of a real tree... but I hate bringing the tree home, cleaning up" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=765) — [H2] Colored vs White Lights Debate - Key idea: Personal preferences split between aesthetic approaches - Evidence: "My mom did only white lights... didn't want it to look like Christmas" #### ⏱️ [18:20](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=1100) — [H3] Gaming Recommendations - Key idea: Ball Pit combines breakout mechanics with RPG progression - Evidence: "It's called Ball Pit... imagine Breakout but you're moving north and collecting mods" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=1515) — [H2] Grocery Store Technology - Key idea: Scan-as-you-shop eliminates checkout interactions - Evidence: "Never talk to a human... scan my product, put it in the bag, pay and leave" #### ⏱️ [32:40](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=1960) — [H1] AI Development Revolution - Key idea: Developers spending full time prompting instead of coding - Evidence: "Interviewing developers spending 40 hours a week just prompting" #### ⏱️ [38:55](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=2335) — [H1] TypeScript Relevance Question - Key idea: Some question TypeScript's value in AI-driven development - Evidence: "TypeScript was for me... AI doesn't give a crap about types" #### ⏱️ [42:10](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=2530) — [H2] CMS Elimination Trend - Key idea: Flat files preferred over CMSs for AI editing - Evidence: "What do I need a CMS for if I just talk to my website?" #### ⏱️ [45:30](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=2730) — [H1] Tech Lead Role Evolution - Key idea: Developers becoming AI orchestrators and managers - Evidence: "I think of myself as a tech lead when working with AI agents" #### ⏱️ [52:15](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=3135) — [H2] Non-Technical Adoption - Key idea: Non-coders building websites through prompting - Evidence: "So many people that have never coded building websites through prompting" #### ⏱️ [58:40](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=3520) — [H1] Code Quality Concerns - Key idea: AI-generated codebases may become unmaintainable - Evidence: "20 people all prompting three years of giant messy code base" #### ⏱️ [64:20](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=3860) — [H3] Vocabulary as Superpower - Key idea: Technical vocabulary becomes key differentiator in AI era - Evidence: "CSS specialty is a superpower... I know words that yield better results" #### ⏱️ [68:45](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=4125) — [H2] Entry-Level Challenges - Key idea: Getting started in tech becomes nearly impossible - Evidence: "If you're not already in tech I would not recommend it" #### ⏱️ [74:10](https://youtu.be/uv-SC4gJCY8?t=4450) — [H1] Disney's AI Investment - Key idea: Disney invests $1B in OpenAI while others resist AI art - Evidence: "Disney's like 'Here's a billion dollars. We want to lean in'" ## 📚 References - [Ball Pit Game](https://store.steampowered.com/app/ball-pit) - [Indiana Jones and the Great Circle](https://bethesda.net/en/game/indianajones) - [CodeRabbit AI Code Reviews](https://coderabbit.ai) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - Development work is shifting from writing code to managing AI agents and orchestrating automated workflows - Traditional tools like TypeScript may become less relevant when AI handles most error detection and correction - Content management systems face obsolescence as AI can directly edit flat files based on natural language instructions ## 📰 Newsletter 🎄 **Holiday Edition: The Great AI Development Shift** This week's Whiskey Web and Whatnot brought some eye-opening insights about how AI is reshaping our industry. The hosts discussed developers who now spend 40+ hours weekly prompting AI instead of coding - a fundamental shift that's making some question whether tools like TypeScript are still necessary. Key takeaway: Your technical vocabulary is becoming your superpower. The words you know directly impact the quality of AI-generated results. **Practical Application:** Start building your prompting skills alongside traditional development. Consider how AI might handle routine tasks in your current workflow. **Resources:** [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) **Community Connection:** Join the conversation about AI's impact on development practices in your local WordPress meetups. ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Create content about AI-assisted development workflows and best practices - Education: Develop workshops on effective AI prompting for developers - Developer experience: Document AI integration patterns and guardrails - Developer marketing: Position company tools within AI-first development workflows - Community management: Moderate discussions about AI's impact on traditional development roles #### OSPO - Policy & Governance: Establish guidelines for AI-generated code contributions - License Compliance: Review implications of AI training on open source codebases - Security Management: Assess vulnerabilities in AI-generated code - Software Inventory: Track AI tools and models used in development - Developer Support: Train teams on responsible AI development practices - Community Engagement: Fund research into AI's impact on open source sustainability - Strategic Alignment: Measure productivity gains from AI adoption #### Community - Maintainers: Provide guidance on reviewing AI-generated contributions - Contributors: Create onboarding for AI-assisted development workflows - Sponsors: Fund initiatives exploring AI's impact on project sustainability - Ecosystem: Coordinate standards for AI tool integration across projects #### WordPress - Core: Evaluate AI integration opportunities while maintaining backwards compatibility - Core Performance: Profile AI-generated code patterns for optimization opportunities - Core AI: Develop ethical guidelines for AI content generation features - Community: Create resources for AI-assisted theme and plugin development - Training: Develop courses on AI tools for WordPress developers - Documentation: Update development guides to include AI-assisted workflows ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Developers with strong technical vocabulary will outperform those with traditional coding skills in AI-driven workflows - TypeScript's value will diminish as AI tools become better at runtime error detection and correction - Non-technical users will increasingly bypass traditional CMSs in favor of AI-driven content management - Traditional computer science education will become less relevant for entry-level positions ### 📊 Methodology - Study design: Survey developers on time spent coding vs prompting over 6-month periods - Data sources: GitHub commit patterns, AI tool usage analytics, job posting requirements analysis - Experiments: A/B test development speed with and without TypeScript in AI-assisted workflows ### ❓ Questions - How will traditional code review processes adapt to AI-generated code? - What new security vulnerabilities emerge from AI-generated codebases? - How can educational institutions prepare students for prompt-driven development careers? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term maintainability of AI-generated codebases - Economic impact of non-technical users replacing junior developers - Evolution of development team structures in AI-first organizations ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Development workflows shifting from coding to AI orchestration and quality assurance - Policy: Need for new standards around AI-generated code quality and security - Security: Increased vulnerability surface area from AI-generated code patterns - Education: Traditional computer science curricula may need fundamental restructuring - Funding: Investment flowing toward AI tooling rather than traditional development infrastructure ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 12th grade #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Discussion of UI patterns and development workflows - Improve: Diagrams showing AI development workflow comparisons, code quality visualizations #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full audio podcast format available - Improve: Chapter markers for key topic discussions #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Conversational format with technical terminology explanations - Improve: Glossary of AI development terms, analogies for traditional vs AI workflows #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Game recommendations with hands-on interaction - Improve: Practical exercises for AI prompting, step-by-step workflow guides #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Structured debate format with clear arguments - Improve: Decision trees for when to use AI vs traditional approaches #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Multi-host discussion format - Improve: Community discussion prompts, collaborative AI development exercises #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual reflection on career implications - Improve: Self-assessment tools for AI readiness, personal development planning #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Evolution metaphors for technology adoption - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about AI's impact on development community ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Clear topic transitions and speaker identification - Improve: Structured transcript with heading markers for key topics #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard podcast player controls - Improve: Skip navigation for topic sections #### Contrast and readability - Present: High contrast video elements - Improve: Closed captioning with technical term definitions #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive transcript formatting - Improve: Adjustable text size options for transcript viewing #### Media and captions - Present: Full audio content - Improve: Professional closed captioning, downloadable transcript #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard media controls - Improve: Accessible chapter navigation, bookmark features ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: International perspective from Italy-based host - Improve: Broader geographic examples of AI adoption patterns #### Inclusive language - Present: Conversational, accessible technical discussion - Improve: Avoid assumptions about listener's current role or experience level #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear topic organization and natural conversation flow - Improve: Content warnings for rapid topic changes, visual topic indicators #### Representation - Present: Multiple perspectives on career implications - Improve: Include voices from different experience levels and backgrounds #### Psychological safety - Present: Honest discussion about career uncertainty - Improve: Supportive framing around career transitions and learning ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear progression from AI capability to workflow changes - Inductive strength: Examples of current developer behavior patterns supporting broader trends - Causal reasoning: Connection between AI adoption and traditional tool relevance - Analogical strength: Comparison of AI adoption to previous technology shifts #### Fallacies - Hasty generalization: Limited sample of developers extrapolated to industry-wide trends - Appeal to novelty: Assumption that newer AI approaches are necessarily better - False dilemma: Framing as either traditional coding or AI prompting rather than hybrid approaches #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Conversational and exploratory with mixture of concern and excitement about industry changes ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No significant denial patterns observed - Attack: No attacks on accusers present - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender dynamics present - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Honest uncertainty about career implications, balanced concern about industry changes ## 🎯 Conclusion The episode reveals a fundamental shift in software development from coding to AI orchestration, with implications for career paths, educational requirements, and tool relevance. While the technology enables rapid development and broader participation, it also raises questions about code quality, security, and traditional career progression. The key takeaway is that technical vocabulary and prompting skills are becoming as important as traditional programming abilities, requiring developers to adapt their skill sets for an AI-first future. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] AI development workflows replacing traditional coding > [!quote] [Santa.exe](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-SC4gJCY8) by [[Whiskey Web and Whatnot]] via [[YouTube]]. Published 2024-12-19. Accessed 2024-12-19. > "Intervi --- # 📄 Full Transcript *Auto-generated from YouTube captions · timestamps roughly every 30 seconds · [watch on YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-SC4gJCY8)* **[00:02]** Welcome to syntax. Welcome to a brand new episode of the frontend happy hour podcast. Welcome to this week's JS Party. >> Live from Ship Shape Studios. This is Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your hosts Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles William Carpenter III. >> That's right, Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development. [music] I mean, it's all in the name. It's not that deep. This is whiskey web and whatnot. Do not adjust your set. **[00:36]** Whiskey web and whatnot is brought to you by code reviews are critical but timeconuming. Code rabbit acts as your AI co-pilot providing instant code review comments and potential impacts of every pull request. Beyond just flagging issues, Code Rabbit provides one-click fix suggestions and lets you define custom code quality rules using a GRP patterns. This catches subtle issues that traditional static analysis tools might miss. Code Rabbit is the category defining platform for AI code reviews. Built for modern engineering teams **[01:07]** navigating the rise of AI generated development. Code Rabbit's contextaware reviews pull in dozens of points of context, making them the most comprehensive AI code reviews with customization features that allow you to tailor your review to your codebase. Code Rabbit's comments improve with time and interactions. Code Rabbit helps organizations catch bugs, strengthen security, and ship reliable code at speed. Trusted by thousands of companies and open source projects worldwide, Code Rabbit helps reduce review time and bugs by 50%. Up on the rooftop reindeer paws, **[01:40]** or I was already wrong on that. Anyway, okay. What's up? This is the holiday edition of Whiskey Web and Whatnot with your >> interrupting Charles III. And yes, [laughter] >> yeah. No, it is Robbie the Wagner, Charles William Carpenter the third, and Adam Thomas Ar the nerd. >> What's up everybody? Nice sweaters. >> I like how we alphabetized. >> Yes. **[02:10]** >> RCA. >> How you like that? Yeah. RCA. >> We are uh drinking random whisies today. >> None of this raiding [ __ ] We're just gonna drink stuff and enjoy it. I'm plugged in. So, I'm I don't know how I'm going to grab this whiskey while I'm without ripping my >> Well, what you try and do that and I'm going to say, well, today I'm having the Lazu. It is a single malt whiskey. It is French. because I decided if I'm going to do this podcast thing, I'm just going to go down the street to the Enoteka in **[02:44]** my neighborhood and just get something they already have because trying to chase down things that these dorks can get in America is really hard. All right, I've got Flavi's five and six of the advent calendar. I'm well behind because as uh folks may know if they listen to the one where I gave a monologue about all the [ __ ] happening in my life to Adam, I've been dealing with dogs trying to die on me and my life falling apart. So, I have not made it through the advent calendar. >> I would have think that would accelerate **[03:14]** you through the advent calendar from what I have heard. >> With zero sleep, >> I just like go I sit down and just fall asleep. Like that's that's my best case scenario right now. >> It sounds like dad, right? You're like, "What? How did parents always fall asleep so fast?" You're like, "Oh [ __ ] now I know exactly how." Yeah. >> Sleep apnnea. >> Yeah. Stop breathing. That helps. Has this show changed to Whiskey Web and Therapy? >> It's feeling burnt, bro. >> Yeah. [laughter] I just had a lot to [ __ ] about, but I'm I'm done. We don't **[03:46]** talk about >> Sprinkle it in and whatever else. Life is hard. You should be able to express it. We're men, actually. No. Yeah. Suppress that [ __ ] and drink. Like, shut up. Yes. >> Throw some balls. That's what we used to >> That'll make you happy. That's That's how you get over stuff. You just push it inside. You push it down. That's what LetGo was all about. It was just [laughter] >> No. Yeah, that totally worked. Definitely didn't get me beaten as a kid. Oh, wait. Did I say that out loud? That's so weird. >> Ooh, >> it's a show. It's a therapy show. **[04:16]** [laughter] >> I've got George Dickle here. >> I'm just laughing because we were talking about all the the Dickle jokes. You're like, "Oo, this Dickle is yummy." Yeah. [laughter] Take your dickle out or go. >> Pop the top on the dickle. >> You good though. >> Smells [clears throat] like apple juice. It has this very It's super sweet. Oh man, it's very sweet, but it's delightful. >> Interesting. Yeah. >> Well, my laz is uh a French single malt and does not encapsulate any scotch-like **[04:49]** flavors. So, even Robbie would enjoy this. I think it's a >> Oh, nice. >> Yeah, it's 90 proof. 45%. Yeah, it's actually very pleasant. It's got a little burn. It's got um Oh, almost want to say like a kind of like not dried apricots. I know you were thinking, but it does have a little bit of like a citrus tang, but like in a tart way to it. I don't know. Maybe like a slight nutmeg. Interesting. Nice. I [snorts] have the Oaklor Grain **[05:20]** Bourbon Whiskey. It is 46% alcohol and it tells me it should taste like cake, pecans, toffee, etc. I'm not getting any of those notes. It is sweet. >> It's yummy. Would recommend. >> It's a fruit cake. It's like a fruit cake. You didn't show your bottle. We all showed our bottles. >> Oh, yeah. You had the tiny flavier. It's a little guy. Tiny one. >> Yeah, you're a little you're you're a little guy. You're a little dick. >> I'll show a gun though. I got So, yeah. George Dickle. Chuck was telling me about Tennessee whiskey and what that **[05:52]** because I was like, "What is this?" And he's like, "Well, it's from it's Tennessee, so it's going to be a bourbon whiskey they make in Tennessee." >> Yeah. Yeah. And oftent times that's a sour mash in a bourbon style. They I think they probably could call it b I don't know the mash bill of what you got, but oftent times that's the case. >> I think there's something about like, you know, Jack Daniels popularizing Tennessee whiskey and like people thinking that's a cool thing to call it. I think there's something there. But >> yeah, it's probably that because Jack Daniels is by Mash Bill a bourbon, but **[06:23]** the fact that they do the filtration through charcoal that gives it maple filtering. So they artificially flavor it. So by law can't be called bourbon, otherwise it would be. >> This the same thing here. It says charcoal mellowed. I can taste maple syrup in it. It's that's I was like I'm getting like apple maple brown sugar candy out of this. It's like a syrup even in some ways. But it's good. It's got a good burn, a good hug. It's pretty mellow with the apple. There's like a little bit of apple tartness to it, but **[06:53]** then at the very end, it kind of turns into a little bit of a cherry cough syrup, and I wish it didn't do that. >> But until then, this is delightful. >> Yeah. Nice. Now you know why like rock stars in the 80s would just chug bottles of Jack Daniels, cuz it's kind of like candy. It's not as hardcore as you think. >> Not as hardcore as it looks hardcore. >> It sure does. >> Badass. [laughter] >> Heck yeah. Let's go drive our Corvette. >> Didn't work out for the deaf leopard guy, right? >> Does he wreck a Corvette? >> I'm not. >> I think it was a Corvette. You know how he lost an arm. The de leopard guy is a **[07:24]** one-armed drummer. >> Yeah, he's one Wait, he lost it. >> He lost his arm in a car accident. Yeah. >> Interesting. >> I don't know if there was Jack Daniels involved. And I'm not sure it's a Corvette, but in my head it definitely is a Corvette. >> It's a stingray. I can visualize black stingray. >> Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, do we have other things to talk about? Yes, we have Christmas hot takes. Real tree or fake tree? Fake tree. >> I love the smell of a real tree. I like going and getting a real tree, but I **[07:54]** hate bringing the tree home. I hate cleaning up the tree. I hate cleaning the splashes from the tree. I hate everything else >> disposal of the tree. [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. >> Everything early on. >> Disposing the tree. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Agree. Yeah. We did a a hybrid. We have uh let's see. One, two, >> wait, four, half fake, half real tree. >> That's the thing. >> We have like four lives on it. [laughter] >> Four or five fake trees. >> And then we got one like a tabletop real tree. Just like the teeny tiny **[08:26]** >> like put in the playroom. >> So it still smells good in the house, but >> nice. >> I can't imagine decorating four or five fake trees. Like decorating our house is very Christmy. >> Oh man, my mom did that. Yep. We had lots of trees. They were all themed. I was like, "This is the Nightmare Before Christmas tree. This is the tree that's actually pretty. This is the tree that actually looks like Christmas. Here's the tree." >> Yeah. You need your show tree that like guests see in your fancy living room and then you have your like family trees that aren't as fancy. Yeah, **[08:57]** >> that's not a life I want to live. And I'm really happy that my family doesn't listen to this show because I don't want anyone getting any ideas. We can barely afford one tree. >> Five trees. [laughter] >> You need five trees. You can make them all your Yeah. Everybody in the house gets their own tree. No. No. >> Well, we were supposed to get two more like uh one because Kayn wants all the kids to have one in their room and I was like the babies won't even >> won't even remember. Like let's skip them this year. So, next year we'll probably have two more trees. **[09:28]** >> Oh my gosh. >> It's like a disappointing mom thing, though. It's like you've been saving all the ornaments and then your kid moves out and they're like, "Mom, I definitely don't want that [ __ ] Don't don't give me a box of ornaments. I I just I don't have >> It's true. It's like when they first move out, they don't want it. But Sarah got some of her childhood ornaments like uh in her early 30s. So she was like, "Yeah, >> hook me up. I want that." Yeah. >> Yeah. This was the ballerina one that I made when I was six and all that stuff. **[09:58]** Now she loves that. Like my mom is not sentimental. So I I mean I don't even have pictures from I don't know growing up for the most part. >> Man, my mom scrapooked. She'd go to a cabin with her with her girly friends and scrapbook for the weekend. Yeah. >> At least that's what she told me. Quote quote quote scrapbook all weekend. I was a naive child. How am I supposed to know? [laughter] >> The kids call it homework these days. >> She was scrapbooking with a punch bowl **[10:28]** and bunch of friends. >> My wife's uh mom, she had the biggest tree I've ever seen. So she did multiple trees, you know, she had her themed trees. There's probably five trees in the house, but one of them was three stories tall. And she got on this huge ladder. She had a whole shed for all of this. It took her so much time. And you showed up at her house and it was like, "Holy cow, that Christmas tree is bigger than the one at the mall. It's beautiful. I don't know how you why all I have so many questions, but there it is." **[10:59]** >> And then she gave it up. She moved away this year from the house. And I think it's the maybe the first or second year. Not the huge tree. Bummer. >> I bet that feels good, you know. I don't know. >> It's quite an undertaking, you know, once you like invest into that. >> You are you're in it. You're in it. You're like, >> you're that person. You got to do it every day. >> Decades of my life are about this tree. >> It's your identity. That tree is your identity. It's like your app, your spa. You know, this this code framework that I choose, this is my identity. >> Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah. You're like, I **[11:29]** get I've got the t-shirt. >> I have many t-shirts. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Robbie has all the ember t-shirts. >> Yeah, I also have an ember shirt. >> It looks like it's ember. It's just like an ember burning, you know. Is it the orange one? It should be. >> Yeah. There you go. >> The flame in the background. >> I don't know why it won't focus on it. >> Cuz it's set to your face cuz you finally got it right. [laughter] >> [ __ ] camera. >> I don't have the problem that you have. I don't have the problem. Look at this. **[12:00]** It's always focused on this beautiful mug. It's beautiful. >> Yeah. I don't know. Maybe it's cuz my room is so dark as well. I have no idea. >> Matches yourself. >> I don't know how cameras work. All right. So, >> yeah, that was just one question. >> White lights or colored lights? >> Colored lights. Lights. Oh, [ __ ] >> Oh, man. I grew up I grew up My mom did only white lights. She's like an interior decorator. She didn't She liked Christmas, but didn't want it to look like Christmas, you know? It needed to be pretty and and twinkle like diamonds. **[12:31]** >> Yeah. >> And I don't know. what I love. >> Did you have a fancy upbringing in some way that I just >> No, dude. We were super poor, but my mom was a decorator. So, like the upstairs in our house was, you know, it was almost like that room that you can't you can't walk in. Like a lot of people would visit our house and go to the bathroom and be like, "Which towel do I use for my hands?" Cuz they'd be like, >> "Fuck like every towel's fancy." They're like, "Which is the shitty one that I wipe my, you know, [ __ ] on?" or whatever. >> Be like they're kind of all crappy. We're all kids. We're eight. We treat them all like crap. So **[13:02]** >> yeah, >> grab a towel. Yo, >> that's interesting. In my house, they'd be like, "Which one is clean?" [laughter] >> Why is your mom drunk and which one is clean? >> Well, now you know how it gets there. Anyway. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. My mom did the same thing with the towels. Like there's like the base towel that you're supposed to use for your hands, but on top there's at least two other towels with like giant embroidered things. >> Right. Right. And sometimes they're folded nicely cuz I have friends with like I don't even want to use that one. Yeah, **[13:33]** >> it sucks to use it. Yeah. >> Like, how did you fold this like a swan and I just want to dry my hands? >> Yeah. >> I just have a thing in this house now. I'm like, I if we put a towel out, it needs to dry stuff. There's so many towels. You're like, hey, that's a towel. Cool. Let me touch it. I'm like, it does it does not nothing. It's not My hands are still wet. I'm like rubbing and rubbing and rubbing and the water's still in my hands. I'm like, what the hell? >> Come on, wick, baby. I need something that wicks. Um, so anyway, but then there's over wicking where you touch one, you're like, whoa. I am like now I'm the sponge and I'm all dry. **[14:03]** >> Like those sport towels are like that, you know? I don't know if you I don't know if you sport and you have a sport towel. You like I take those to the gym and they're really thin so they fit in the gym bag and whatever else and literally they just like touch your skin. They're used a lot in like swim also. I don't know. No, >> they're like a Shamwow. >> Kind of like I know those. Not rubbery like a Shamwow. I do know the I know the Shamwow towels. They're not rubbery like that, but they're >> No, no, no. Not the same. Just the same **[14:34]** idea of like super absorbent. >> Super absorbent. Those are amazing. But you can't put those out for guests also. You know, you need a middle ground. >> Oh, so I was going to say I got scammed by the the Shamwow guy at the beach like when they were popular. There's like a booth and he's like, "Here's a 2 L of soda." And I poured it on this thing and like nothing came off. I was like, "Oh my god, I need one." And then you bring it home and you put like a cup of water on it and it's already dripping. And I'm like, "This thing is a scam. This is not real." [laughter] >> Yeah. What kind of water did he have in that 2 liter? >> Yeah. **[15:05]** >> You got your 20 bucks, though. >> I was going to say, are you all watching South Park? The uh Towi is in it, but he's in it in a whole new way now. >> Wow. >> No, I haven't been. >> He's He's Satan's sex rag. >> He's just there. It's like a >> Yeah, >> you can say all the words on here, you know. You could just say comrag. I that that is what he is. And it's but he's like getting all this insider information. So now he's like a tattletail, but he's like barely alive. He's like, "Ah, I can barely move." **[15:36]** [laughter] Everything gets a They went over the top uh pretty pretty heavy in this uh season cuz Yeah, Satan has a butt baby. So Trump impregnated Satan with a butt baby >> and it just birthed itself in the most recent episode. >> Wow. I haven't watched it, but I feel like I definitely should. My company's closed the week after Christmas before Christmas Eve and I have a lot of plans to do nothing and so something like that sounds perfect. Like people are like, "Oh, what are you going to do with all **[16:07]** that time?" And I'm like, >> "Binge South Park." >> Nothing. Yeah, exactly. It's like >> Stranger Things season 5. >> We already watched up to the pause >> four season. >> I have not watched any of it yet, unfortunately. So, no spoilers. >> Okay. Uh I can't believe they all died. Oh, is that not what you wanted to hear? That's so weird. >> And the first episode, too, it was weird. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's all new characters. Enjoy. >> Did anybody watch the the docu documentary? >> It feels like >> the one that was by 50 Cent. **[16:37]** >> Yeah. Well, the only reason why it came to fruition, and this is the best part, is that Diddy hired videographers to follow him around and take all this. >> What a dummy. before his trial cuz he was like, I'm going to beat it as I have many other times and then he didn't and so he refused to pay them. So they're like, great, this belongs to us and we'll sell it to the highest bidder. 50 Cent's like >> I watched uh the interview with 50 Cent. **[17:08]** Like he's just they're interviewing him on like the Today Show and he has the biggest grin on his face. >> Oh, he's loving it. He's like, >> "Oh yeah, [laughter] >> this idiot has made it so easy for me." [snorts] >> Yeah. He holds a grudge like no other. Anyway, it's kind of slow moving, but it also is like when you get there end parts, you're like, "What?" Okay. Yeah, >> I'm a Curtis Jackson fan, so I would uh I would watch that. >> I think it's worth watching. I think it's interesting. It's about four hours of your time. So, **[17:38]** >> holy cow. God, I don't have four hours of time. That's like six weeks of free time, >> right? Exactly. [laughter] So, you'll just like pause every 15 minutes. It's fine. It'll take you six weeks. Still worth it. All right. I have a new >> You all got extra time. Oh, go ahead. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I don't know what it is. Continue until I find the page. >> Okay. >> Oh, man. If [clears throat] you got extra time, I haven't played a game this addicting in a while. And maybe you don't like addicting games, but it's uh it's called Ball Pit. And maybe you've heard of it. You're It's Do you remember Breaker or Breakout or >> Yeah, Breakout. I remember Break Out. >> Okay. So many variants of this game, **[18:09]** right? So imagine that like instead of your paddle just being stationary and you're breaking bricks, imagine those bricks are like little enemies that get spawned for you and then you're you're moving north. So you're slowly progressing and you have to take out these enemies as they keep coming in. They change up so it's not just a brick anymore. It's kind of like a little dude that might take two hits, might take four hits. He might try to shoot you with fire or whatever. And as you're going, you keep collecting these mods to your character. So it's kind of like Risk of Rain. It's very rog light or rogue legacy, right? And you're **[18:39]** modifying your balls. So, it's like your balls get hotter. Your balls get cold. Now, I'm just going to lean in. [laughter] >> They get sweaty. >> They just start to droop a little more. >> Oh, man. You evolve your balls. You can I'm like, [laughter] what else does this? You can fuse your balls. You can There's ball fusion. Anyway, your character like gets more powerful, but then like more enemies show up and then like >> fuse. >> If you collect your ball before it hits the back, you can shoot your ball again sooner. And so there's like these weird like little things, but it's like wildly addicting and it's super fun. You're **[19:11]** just sort of And then after you have attempted the level or whatever, you go back to your base and then like now it's a base builder. And so you build a base. You need to farm things. You need to build your city and then you can launch all the heroes you've unlocked through the city like like a pinball machine. And everything they bounce off is like a resource you get. And so it's just it's this stupid weird game where you're like, I'm going to go dig into this level and try to beat it. Then I'm going to go back to my village and make my character and my stuff better and then go back in. And there's different characters with different powers. All **[19:41]** these different balls that you can launch. Ball pit. I don't know. It's really great. >> Okay. And this is available on Steam on. >> I think it's everywhere. Steam Switch. It's like wherever we want it to be. >> Everywhere. Balls are fused. >> Balls are fused. You want to fuse some balls? Check out ball pit. Okay. Pretty good. >> I mean games. I have a very narrow >> soccer, right? >> Yeah. I mean FIFA. So, I've been playing FIFA. There was one that was released, I think, on like GOG. It's the one that **[20:11]** was like DRM free games. So, Gogg.com, and I discovered it through Amazon Prime games, which is now like Luna and all that other weird [ __ ] But anyway, it was called Rue Valley, and it's a very story driven one, and you're on this like weird time loop, >> and you can make all these weird choices as you're going. That was one I played a bit recently. Then I hit a point where I was like, "Okay, I can't do this time loop 36 more times." So, >> what's that movie? He's in a time loop. Momento. **[20:42]** >> Yeah, Momento is definitely it. Yeah, that would be one. I'd say it's more momentoesque. >> No. >> Okay. >> So, that's one to check out. But I really want to play the new Indiana Jones the and the great circle or whatever. >> Whoa. >> I didn't know they had a game. >> Me neither. >> Yeah. And I like an adventure game with a story. I'm I'm trying to play a story if I'm getting in there. So like >> I imagine it's going to be like uh like Uncharted style or something. Have you played Uncharted? >> Is this Bethesda coming in 2026? **[21:13]** >> Whoa. Bethesda talking about >> No, it it exists now. So Indiana Jones game and the great circle. What are you talking about? Like >> the great circle. >> And the great circle the dial exists right now coming out. Okay, here's the great circle. I see it. Yeah. No, it says coming to Switch in 2026. Okay. >> Oh, yeah. Well, you don't want that [ __ ] on Switch anyway. >> It says Bethesda. >> Everything Bethesda puts out is fire. So, would play >> and it's on sale right now through gogg.com for like 60 bucks or something **[21:44]** for the $100 version. So, I'm like, >> but you can also play Bethesda Softworks. >> Exactly. You can play it [laughter] for free right now though through Amazon Luna. And I think if you're Prime members, which you all are, did you know your Prime membership does not transfer overseas? Amazon.it is just one thing. >> It's annoying. >> When you try to log in is just go Allora. >> Allora create [laughter] a new account, which I did because I don't want to pay like import fees. Which, by the way, I **[22:16]** got my celebration whiskey today, but I had to pay cash money to get it because FedEx is like cash delivery. Yeah. Well, no, it was paid for there, but I had to pay the import tax and I had to pay it in cash and I had no idea. Nothing said. Guy shows up and is like, give me, you know, he's like, give me 50 bucks. And I'm like, I don't have 50 bucks. >> I don't you don't have a package. And he's like, I'm going to come back in 3 hours. Go get 50 bucks. I'm like, okay. >> Well, >> yeah. >> Hopefully, you found an ATM because **[22:48]** there were would definitely be no people working that could give you cash. >> No. Yeah. I try to interact with the least amount of humans possible. Mostly because I have the least amount of language possible. It's great. >> I mean, they all do English though, probably at least probably better than your Italian. >> The government people. Yeah, the government people. No, they don't. They don't [ __ ] with that. It gets real hard. My favorite part is at the grocery store. I think you can do this at places in the States, but whatever. like you have your loyalty card and I go and I **[23:18]** scan it and I get a scanner and I take my scanner and as I'm shopping I just scan my product, put it in the bag, scan my product, put it in the bag, whatever. At the end I go to this little station, scan my scanner in and it's like great. It costs this much. I pay and I leave. Never talk to a human. >> It's perfect. >> It's amazing. I love this. And this isn't just a language thing. I just don't want to talk to people while I'm shopping. >> Oh yeah. And I don't want to go >> to I mean the problem is is that so many **[23:49]** places in the states have eliminated like the whole like human line where they scan things and somebody bags for you. It's all selfch checkckout. And I do not work here. So if I have to work here, I want to just get done as I'm shopping and leave. I brought a bag, I scan my stuff, I pay you and I leave. If I have to go through an area where I have to scan through and do my own bagging, then I work here and I don't like to work here. >> Yeah. So, **[24:19]** >> yes, we familiar with your your thoughts on that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Have you seen the the Whole Foods ones where it's like Dashlane or something like that? You get a cart that has a builtin >> it has a built-in scanner and thing to weigh stuff on. So you can put your produce on the scale and it like, you know, put it all in there and you put your bags in first and it scans like how much they weigh, I guess. Yeah. You just walk out like you're walking through and it's like, "Hit this line to like confirm everything. Hit this line to like charge your credit card on file." **[24:50]** Like you don't do anything but just walk out. It's awesome. I don't know. But when I was in Seattle and Adam and I did Build and we did our podcast at Build, when I went to go buy the whiskey for our shows, >> we went to this. Yeah. You remember that? Did you go with me? I don't even remember. I did, but I know we walk in, >> we like scan your card, you get what you want, and then you just left with your [ __ ] >> It was amazing. >> There were humans just monitoring what you put in. >> Yeah. They were kind of like, maybe him, **[25:22]** maybe not him. I don't know. Yeah. >> So, wait. I'm I'm a little confused. You're totally down with working for the grocery store as you put things in your cart, but you're not down to work for the grocery store if it's all done at the end. And then this just reminds me of like web performance. Like you've got uh you can just in time, you know, make your little purchases and build your cart or you can just gather all your stuff and then show up in a waterfall strategy. And it's like pick your way. You you still did the work either way, Chuck. It's kind of what I'm I'm like **[25:52]** getting to. >> True. But like think about it this way. >> Take it out again. >> Yeah. Like I was already going to draw these things in my cart or whatever. Like I have the little cart thing and I just put my bag in that and I can either just grab the thing from the shelf, throw it in there or I can scan it real quick as I do it and then be done. And so that's where they get me. Sure. They can. >> It's like apps versus the website. Yeah. which is funny that they do that here because they're all about maintaining **[26:22]** employment for as many people as possible. They're not trying to eliminate jobs here or make anything that much easier. So, I don't know where this came from, but I like the magic. >> Yeah, it's probably not Italian-owned. >> Esolonga, you know, you guys all go to Esolonga, right? >> No, >> sure don't. >> We do have Lidle here, which is a German company, and they don't do that. They do some other stuff. Are they the ones where you have to like give them a quarter to get a cart? >> Every place give a euro to get a cart. That's just the thing. **[26:53]** >> Well, I mean here too, like I think they do it here. You have to have a quarter and no one has quarters cuz who the [ __ ] has a quarter ever? >> Like, >> right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I never have cash. We just keep euros like in a few places >> just for getting carts here, which is pretty funny. >> One euro is going to stop me from stealing a cart. I don't know. If I'm a homeless person and I get the one euro, I'm like, well, I own a cart now. >> Yeah. >> Should we talk about web at all or do you all want to go back to uh >> what is web? **[27:23]** >> You know, this thing that we >> do we write code now? I'm a I'm a permanent tech lead. Have you guys tried Big Pickle? I have. >> Uh yes, that's an open code, right? >> Yeah. And that was their own model. >> I just tried open code this week for the first time. You both kept talking so much [ __ ] about it. And I saw other people talking [ __ ] about it and I was like, "Okay, well, >> good [ __ ] about it." >> Good [ __ ] about it. >> Talking [ __ ] usually means bad things. >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] >> Listen, youngster. Talking [ __ ] means bad things. And we mean it in a good **[27:54]** way. >> I'm reversing the way that it works, old man. You know, I'm going to take ownership of that. I'm going to talk some good [ __ ] >> Some of that goody good [ __ ] Yeah, I liked it. It was great. It wasn't as good as Warp. I'm still on a Warp train. Although I don't get to use Warp at work. I'm still warping at home, but now I'm open coding at home. I don't know. I'm trying them all. Just trying to figure out what's going on. >> Oh, for sure. Cast a wide net. I say that for sure. >> But I brought up the like web topic cuz uh there's people this week, multiple different people from different angles going, "Hey, if I'm just prompting now **[28:27]** mostly and managing agents like a manager and I'm orchestrating tasks and running [ __ ] in parallel and look at all this cool stuff I'm doing, I'm spending tokens. I haven't written code. I haven't touched the code in days. Why am I even Typescripting? I'm noticing that Typescript is actually maybe 40% of the stupid ass errors that AI is fixing. So, how about we just eliminate TypeScript and we go straight towards me just prompting because I don't care about the code. TypeScript was for me and for all the sharing that we did in the understanding a doesn't give a crap **[28:58]** about that. All it does is run TS though like if it has the type guard rails. It depends on how robust your code is. I guess it does a lot of code. >> We're just projecting on the agent like it cares about types though. Like maybe all of its connections that it's making are just not type related. So anyway, there's there's a group of people going, do I even need types? Are types dead in a world of AIdriven code development? And then the other one is CMS's. What do I need a CMS for if all I want to do is talk to my website and say make this **[29:29]** change over here? I don't care where the data is stored. In fact, it's in my way to even have a database >> if I want to change text. >> Oh my gosh. So, these are very desperate conversations though. >> Are they though? They're people want they're desperate conversations. >> So, yes, Typescript is for the humans initially, right? They're >> It's almost like pre-commit hooks. they came into play because you're a tech lead that was trying to corral too many **[29:59]** people or something. And I do think of myself as a tech lead a lot when I'm working with AI and agents and agentic coding flows and yada yada. Right? So that's what I am is I'm like we're planning, we're planning, we're planning, we're planning, and now I want to see what you're going to do. Okay, I agree. And now I see what you did. Do I still agree? Okay, we're going to revise over that. and then we push. I mean, that's very much a tech lead kind of role and it's micromanagy, but you know, that's I think that's the **[30:32]** world we're in. >> This just in, whiskey.fund is now open for all your merch needs. >> That's right, Robbie. We're hearing reports of hats, sweaters, and t-shirts, as well as a link to join our [music] Discord server. What's a Discord server? [snorts] Just read the prompter, man. Hit subscribe. Leave us a review on your favorite podcast app and tell your friends about our broadcast. [music] It really does help us reach more people and keeps the show growing. All right, back to your regularly scheduled programming. **[31:05]** >> Well, I feel like types like if you're doing a very continuous agentic workflow, like you want to let it go and just like leave for an hour and come back, I think the types would be helpful because then it would go like I'm going to throw in random [ __ ] Yeah, I'm going to throw in random [ __ ] and it goes, "Oh, I got an error." But like JavaScript errors say you do bad me not know why. And then so like [laughter] if you have a TypeScript error that's like, "Oh, we expected it to look like this and it looked like this." And it goes, "Oh [ __ ] you're right. I agree. >> You're absolutely right." Like **[31:37]** >> in that world, I think that like, yeah, sure, the humans took it into play, but I think for a reason, and I think we're surrounded by very robust juniors for a bit. And I think the types still give us good guard rails. >> Types are small guards though. Like think about how wasteful so many guards are where you're like, "Oh, hey, I just did the task you needed, but I noticed that there's a type discrepancy between HTML element and HTML div element. Let me go ahead and spend a bunch of money and refix that. Oh [ __ ] I fixed that." **[32:08]** And it turns out there's I'm like, this is so ridiculous. The code has worked since day one. And you know, like >> maybe you should spend more time in planning mode. I don't know. Right. You have to let it know like if the types pass, even if it's not like 100% the right type, quote unquote, I think you have to say like that's fine. Don't try to change it if the types are saying we're cool. Like there's not a better one. >> Use the one that I >> even if you ask an agent to just fix the types though in a project, it screws that up all the time. So it clearly **[32:38]** doesn't have some sort of master intelligence like an LSP does. This thing is just trying to infer >> type connections between things. You you mentioned specs though, which is the next most sort of like extreme concept of this. So people are like, who cares about types? Who cares about a CMS? I'm just going to work on flat files. So now my entire project is now consumable instantly. Spectdriven development says CMS doesn't matter. >> Created to take these changes out of developer hands, though. So, I'm not **[33:10]** sure it's like this. >> That's kind of what I mean. It's like if people are if people are prompting their way to a sol because think about like a client. How many times have you handed off a CMS to a client and they've been like, "Uh, I need to change the homepage text and they write you an email instead of going to the CMS." This is so classic. But then what are you going to do? You're going to have them prompt and then you're going to have the prompt because at the end of the day, are they doing that much prompting? >> We're moving towards a scenario where we don't code. I don't think people are going to code for much longer. We're **[33:40]** like moving straight towards like I know so many people right now that have never coded in their life and they're building websites. They're actually taking over aspects of the business that have to do with digital entities because they can prompt their way in. You know, >> I welcome that. But I think there's a ceiling and I think that the people I don't know that we are in a CMS world quite yet because there is too much of a convolution between the code and the content without that. so far. But if you have created a site like okay there are **[34:11]** CMS's that are essentially drawing from Google Docs right or Markdown files >> table yeah and those things >> could probably work pretty good in this context like that's going to get better and they can prompt away their content and it can get drawn in automatically and there doesn't have to be a CMS in the middle I can see that world for a while. I don't see a world where they are prompting in the same space as you **[34:43]** and I for a bit. I don't know. Who knows? Accelerated like timelines. I say 3 years and then all of a sudden it's 3 months. Who knows? >> So many times that like if you didn't understand what you want to build, at least like a you know a base technical knowledge of what it should do. even if you don't understand the code, you know, like, oh, it shouldn't do this really dumb thing that you're trying to do. Whereas, like someone who doesn't know code at all wouldn't know that and so they might get really lost down the wrong path. So, I agree with Chuck that **[35:14]** I mean, I think we are like there's frequently times that I don't touch the code. Like I we talked about last time, Adam, how like at Swatch I just was like, "Hey, build me a a magnifier tool that picks colors, build it in Rust, make it work on Mac OS, Windows, and Linux." And it was like dope, I'll do it now. I had to prompt the [ __ ] out of that thing for like 3 weeks, but we got there. So I think non tech will not prompt. >> Well, no, but nontechnical people are. That's what I'm realizing. This is before I even got to Shopify. I was **[35:46]** interviewing developers that were spending 40 hours a week just prompting. I thought it was ludicrous because I was like, I >> That's how people get $2,000 bills, though, cuz I have never touched that. I've never spent outside of my own budget and I don't understand how people are getting there because I'm running multi- aent flows. I will use work trees and I will work on the same codebase in four different windows and have things happening at the same time and I never go beyond my budget. So I just I don't **[36:16]** know if that's a me problem. >> Well, it's not gone beyond their budget. It's more like they're just patient. I I early on I did I did I didn't have the patience for that. Like I was just like I'm just gonna go do it, you know? I'm not gonna sit here and ask nice I parent. I'm I'm a dad. Damn it. Like I like I'm patient with my kids. I don't want to be patient with AI agents. I don't want to be like Damn it. I told you and I have and I'm prompting and I'm prompting and I'm prompting in multiple windows and I've never been I've never hit limits. So I don't know what that is. >> Okay. What are you using that would have **[36:47]** a limit though? Like >> I mean open I don't know claw. I mean, I tip I don't know. >> But you have like the $20 a month one. The >> No, my company pays for it. I don't know. [ __ ] know, but nobody. >> So, are they getting giant bills? You don't know. I [laughter] doubt it. No, I can see on that. >> I've never got the bill, but [ __ ] somebody is. >> Yeah. I mean, there's a ceiling on everything and never hit the ceiling. That's what I want to say. What what I wanted to share was that people are getting wild with taking this to the extreme which is that just like we had **[37:18]** specdriven development which is still looming and I still think might legitimately take over our entire industry where we don't what I see and it's making me upset and I like that you all said ceilings because I'm not necessarily agreeing with everybody here but is that the code is every month becoming less and less what I give a [ __ ] about what I actually touch and what I of the code. We've lost that idea. >> We are losing code. And so people are like destroying CMSs for just flat files **[37:48]** that AI can edit. They're removing types for just files that AI matter. >> No one cares. Outcomes matter more, man. So they don't care. So So what we're moving towards is this space where code doesn't matter. What matters is maybe your spec or your ability to prompt or your the model that you're using. We're like, it's shifting away from what I've spent 25 years getting good at and I don't like it. I'm also at the same time like >> I maybe I do like it. Maybe I don't care about code. Maybe all I wanted was outcomes anyway. **[38:19]** >> If you do that long enough, especially if you have a big team doing that, you're all prompting. You got like 20 people all prompting three years of like giant messy code base, right? And then you go to implement the next feature that's actually complex and AI doesn't 100% know how to do it and it's like I can't. Dude, that's what today's [laughter] >> Everybody's codebase is a three to 10 year pile of [ __ ] that I've never seen a single code base where everyone's like, I'm so proud of our workflows. We've got fast V builds and we've got Dude, every code project is a piece of garbage all **[38:50]** piled together. It's barely working. Every codebase is barely working. >> I've never known any team in 20 years that is like, I'm proud of this soup to nuts. >> That's what I mean. So, so why are we protecting that there's even this case to to defend it always mattered more? >> We love the green field six months. We'd love that first six months for like smooth and pristine and we're able to like protect it and you know get it to whatever thing and then somebody gets in there and [ __ ] it up. It just it's **[39:22]** inevitable >> to to our opinions though and that's the other side of thing like you said a dad gets more patient and I honestly think that I've become so much more patient to outcomes that I'm like yeah I have my preferences I have thoughts I know what I like but I also know what like kind of gets us there and like that's okay that's okay cuz I understand does readability of the code help AI I at all like if you uglified the entire codebase **[39:55]** would it understand it just as well as if it were like this function does this >> because you test that pretty easily by like copy pasting that and then >> I've also got I I've checked out so you can hack with AI very easily so you can look at obfuscated bundles and reverse engineer them you can be like here's the task I want to do in this game this game is loading this big ass JavaScript file I don't give a [ __ ] what's going on in there but I do want to hack where my character is placed at the beginning of the level. Please place me where I win the level immediately. And it goes boop **[40:27]** boop boop boop boop. Looking at all the spots. It's like, I found the end code where it looks for your position. I've now set your beginning position to the end position that makes you win. You're like, boom. Now I'm at the top of the leaderboards. It doesn't care or know what's going on inside of there. It just it's looking for relationships and connections. And the letter D is the same [ __ ] as get characters positional coordinates, you know? like it just doesn't care. >> No. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's a computer and can read computer talk. Turns out >> you're essentially programming an **[40:57]** assembly or like something that like like if you don't care about the readability at all, you can make it super efficient, super small. Be like I don't ever want to read the code. Just keep iterating until it does what I want and then like your bundle will be smaller because it's like I don't care about like you know doing a nice loop where you can see everything I'm doing. I'm going to like do a reduce and like do some gross [ __ ] and just throw it in there and like I do think there is definitely some of that that we won't care as long as it works. >> Once you have a performance issue, can it debug that? If it can, then yeah, I **[41:28]** don't I don't know that you need humans all that much. >> Well, you need humans to drive the reasons and the outcomes and so right change a lot. I think our jobs change a lot and that's an interesting thing to train for. I've been thinking about this a bunch even in just like the last six months. I think like our jobs have changed a bunch and so like >> they totally changed >> traditional career ladders and like review cycles feel weird. They feel already kind of **[42:00]** useless. Oh, you write tests and like you don't write tests. Your [ __ ] computer writes tests. So like why are we even talking about that anymore as like a performance evaluation? Like no, like how do you plan? How do you own outcomes? Like that's kind of >> taste and vocabulary. Yeah. It's like what vocabulary do you have? Cuz you need to be able to talk to these things. You need to be able to listen to humans that say, "Hey, Chuck, I need you to do some shit." And you need to be able to synthesize that, translate it into computer talk. And now we're not **[42:31]** translating it into code. We're translating it into a plan and some orchestration for multi-agent prompting. It's a complete change of our role. It's bizarro, but you need taste and you need vocabulary. And that's I I tweeted that last week. I was like, "Holy cow, all of this is boiling down to the words that I know how to say." CSS is a specialty is a superpower right now because my vocabulary is doper than yours. So, yo, I'm going to get better results because I know the words that yield better results than you. What a weird thing. It used to be that I was good at coding and **[43:02]** now it's just I know some words that you don't like. >> Is that you understand the stack better and that gives you something. Yeah, that's a power becoming more important. Yeah. >> Yeah, I think so. >> It all comes down to I think the same thing that we were supposed to be doing as senior plus engineers in the first place is force multiplying the rest of the team. Now, if the rest of the team is AI agents, okay, but like you need >> to take your knowledge and be able to make it all like other AI agents andor developers build from your knowledge and **[43:33]** make stuff way faster than if you did it all by hand is like the entire point. So I think if you can show that you're doing that, I think that's how you you go up a career ladder still like if you're doing way more than >> that's how you become mid to senior or something like that. But how do you come out of computer science programs and demonstrate that and demonstrate that in a way that says well you're >> how do you get started? >> Yeah. I don't getting started is basically impossible right now. If you're not already in tech I would not recommend **[44:04]** who gets lucky over time, right? Like you might have computer science fundamentals and you vibe code until you get lucky. I don't know. >> Hey, there's a lot of new new roles opening up for anybody that can vibe code. Like I said, multiple people that I know are now the coder at their company because they vibe code everything. Now, everyone else around them doesn't give a [ __ ] that they vibe code. No. >> All they know is that person A is producing results that they want. And you know what? that person a saved them 30 grand this quarter because they **[44:35]** didn't pay the developers. So like literally you got a team of people that actually write code and they're not going to pay them anymore in favor of a Vive coder. >> I mean, you know, there's a ton of security vulnerabilities in this. So maybe that is sort of like the narrowing. I don't know. They're like, "Whatever." And then you expose a bunch of money. >> Security is always one of those things. It's like, "Look, if I'm not currently being hacked, I don't give a [ __ ] about it, Chuck, because that costs money and I don't have the money." And once I get It's like accessibility also, accessibility and security. Like, I **[45:06]** don't need those until someone like wildly complains about it. And then you're like, "Oh [ __ ] now I need it. I need >> It's annoying." >> So, there's your business model. you need to like go and hack a bunch of people, but in a positive way just to show like, oh, I could have and I didn't and now you need me. Now I get your 30 grand that you saved. >> You didn't. >> That was like the SWAT team I was going to do, too. AI SWAT team. We're like, we'll come we'll come save you from the AI slop that you generated, but guess what? We're going to cost twice as much as what whatever you [clears throat] **[45:38]** an hour cuz now you're desperate. $300 an hour. >> Yep. 10-hour minimum, [ __ ] >> Okay, so that was that was some AI spicy news, which is people ditching TypeScript, ditching CMSs, just just hacking through prompts. And then you had Disney show up and Disney's like, "Hey, everybody else, all the other artists in the world are freaking out that they don't want to be copycatted. They don't want Sora. They don't want Gibli is like out there saying, "Stop [ __ ] copying Todoro." Which also **[46:09]** Gibli and Todoro are in South Park episodes this season, so you should definitely go check it out. People are having sex with Todoro and they're really upset like, "Stop [ __ ] Todoro." Anyway, but you have Disney. Disney just showed up the other day and they're like, "Guess what? We're giving a billion dollars to Open AI because we want to fill Sora with more Disney." They were like, "Look, we're going to make it easier for you to mimic Mickey Mouse. Do whatever the [ __ ] you want with Mickey. You know what? It's free marketing in this in this weird social network like viral market. access to like anything you create, they can then **[46:40]** just make a show out of it. Like if someone makes something on accident that's really good, >> hey, yeah, maybe it goes viral, they're like, "Sweet, take that to Netflix. There you go." >> I mean, it's over. You know, porn is the first ones. They're the >> Well, that's what the South Park episode is all about. Yeah, >> it makes sense. >> And yeah, the cops are super naive to it. They're just like, "Oh god, South Park is so good. It's like just doing like tiny twists on >> stuff." Geniuses. But Disney, Disney's showing up and everybody else in the world is like, "Fuck AI for art and stuff." And Disney's like, "Here's a **[47:10]** billion dollars. We actually want to lean in." And I'm like, >> I mean, this is spicy. >> They needed to spend money before the end of the year. It's okay. >> And there's also to us. Hey, we're taking sponsorships, Disney sponsored by Disney Plus. [laughter] >> Disney Plus. Plus, >> Disney is about to make a new IDE that can prompt and make movies. It's just a >> Oh, no. actors. [laughter] >> Yeah. I mean, I guess there's sort of there's a lean there, right? It's sort **[47:41]** of like everyone is fighting this. We don't give a [ __ ] You know, once they got sued by Scarlett Johansson, they were like, "How do we stop that?" Yeah. Okay. We got it. That's my guess. >> I mean, Disney's doing fine. I don't think Disney will ever be not doing fine. I think it's interesting that Netflix is trying to acquire uh >> Warner Brothers. Yeah. the other [clears throat] side. >> I hope they do cuz I've had stock in them forever and I'm like, "Yes, make my second best stock I've ever invested in. Make it better." >> Mhm. [laughter] **[48:13]** >> Yeah. How else can we get better? I know. Acquire the other superhero universe. I mean, that's it. They They should buy >> Harry Potter and like like everything that you want. So then they'll be like, "Hey, you know what? Our prices are $135 a month now." >> And people, you know what? I've got to pay it. [laughter] >> Yeah, they've got a million. >> Google wants $200 a month for latest gen usage of their models and they're like I don't know anyone who's going to put 200 bucks down for AI, but you do you. **[48:44]** >> Okay, so this this comes back to you know the spending and the tokens and the never hitting the ceiling cuz like I always hit the ceiling at the $20 a month claude code. So I'm like going along and open code >> cuz yes anyway inside joke I don't get it. It's over my head. >> I'll share the meme later. Povo cuz you're POVO. Cuz you're not rich. >> Yeah. >> I'm not. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. >> No, none of us. >> Anyway, so I'll hit that limit and then open code will go waiting for like **[49:15]** 150,000 seconds like come back and I'm like sweet. So like then I'm like well I'm addicted to this [ __ ] so I'm going to switch to the one where I pay for it. So anyway, all that to say, if you're paying for each thing and each thing you do is a dollar, $5, whatever, is it worth the $200 a month, if you're doing it a lot, I think it is because like >> it is. It's annoying. >> Yeah. >> And if I pay developers to build this [ __ ] I'd pay them like $10,000. So $200 is cheap. >> Yeah. I ain't got I I don't have time **[49:47]** these days as a parent. It's really annoying. I'm being pulled in. I have I don't even have time for me. Everything in my life wants attention. AI has enabled me to ship stuff that I wouldn't have otherwise shipped. It's like annoying to even say out loud, but it's legit. I don't want this water drinking, society crushing thing to exist in this world, but at the same time, it is saving me time and there's a lot to deal with in terms of AI in that space. That's why it's so weird that Disney's like leaning in and you have other people that are like leaning far out. **[50:17]** It's so polarizing AI and I also feel like it's a career. I have to. There is no choice. I have to. And so now I have to stay up to date on AI, which is really hard, which is also something I hope people are getting out of this show is that us three, we're staying up to date on AI. It's hard to stay up to date on AI. Maybe us sharing these weird little details and sh like how I use it, what's going on in the industry, like this is helping other people because you can't ignore it. This isn't web 3. This is totally something else. This is way we're like far beyond it. NFTTS. This **[50:48]** isn't like fun little dumb listen to Robbie and lose money situation. Like this is [laughter] actually >> that's every situation. Anytime I give you advice, you will lose money. >> Yeah. And I can tell you from experience, he's not lying. >> I make No. Okay. This is how it works. I make all the right investments, but at all the wrong times. >> Yeah. Yeah. You're late or early, and then I sell it, and then it goes up like a ton. >> Yeah. >> Like either way. >> Yeah. Mostly it just doesn't happen. >> I have some dumb JPEGs because of you **[51:21]** and [laughter] I lost money on some other things because of you. >> Mhm. Yep. That's okay. >> Yeah, >> we're doing all right. >> Yeah. So, you know what's not losing is the the web. The web still is alive. It seems to be still a render target for like everything. I wonder if that'll change with AI. Like I'm think Okay, here's a here's a thought process. Sorry, I'm bringing it back. Damn it. I've been uh using this app called Artifact on my iPhone. It's an iPhone app that makes other iPhone apps through prompts. I don't love this app. I don't have any affinity to this app. Hey, this **[51:53]** episode is sponsored by Artifact. Make apps from your iPhone. >> Yeah. >> No, it's not brought to you by FourthWall. >> Whiskey.fm. You can also have this whiskey with us. >> Would you like 70,000 impressions on your name? Oh, that's good. But the idea that like it actually spawned for me that could be more interesting. Okay, hang with me. I don't think it'll take that long to explain. The web is very cool because you hit a URL and it's just in time problem solving, just in time **[52:23]** solutioning, just in time information. Okay, but your device is not that. You have to download apps. The the apps are all front-loaded. You download all these bytes just to access tiny bits of it sometimes. So what if you took the power of the web in terms of its just in time offerings but made it so that it was native so that you had just in time native app. Okay, I know both of you are building tools for yourself with AI. There's times when you're just like I have I need to understand this. So I'm going to build a small tool just from a throwaway tool. Now imagine your entire **[52:56]** operating system was throwaway apps. You don't need Google maps. Why the [ __ ] would I need Google maps? I can just just in time a map for myself. Why would I order through Uber Eats when I can just in time build an agent that goes and orders me some food? So, it's like I'm imagining an entire operating system, an entire lifestyle of just in time tools, just but not tools at this point. Just in time apps, so they perform at high quality. They're made for me. They take all my preferences everywhere I go. It's all the same [ __ ] the web has, but you converge it onto **[53:28]** the native operating system for battery savings, speed savings, less time over the network, and you sort of try to frontload things as much as you can. So that like is that interesting? Would you go get a new operating system that's sort of like just in time to everything for you? There was no app store bas I'm I'm basically pitching right now. No app stores. It's just text boxes. It's like I have a problem. Here's my problem. It's not like rabbit where I'm like trying to talk to, you know, my Anyway, I want something that still has a gooey, still has I'm still tapping through. I'm still feeling in control, but I'm not a **[53:59]** slave to the walled garden, which is why the web is so dope, right? There is no walled garden. This is a a free-for-all space, a URL. Since I've been stuck by location often sometimes there's like apps here I can't install unless I destroy my entire Apple profile and then create a new one on this region. I'm like well I can't do that just to order a [ __ ] pizza. I just want to order a pizza. >> No. Can't you just open your window and **[54:30]** go hey I want a pizza boret una pizza. You got to work on that. Yeah. Your Italian's not that great, dude. >> It's not. Yeah. [laughter] >> Did you know that you have la pizza and le pizza? >> Is that one or two pizzas? >> Multiple pizzas are le >> Oh, that's like French. >> Cappuccino and cappuccini. >> So, does Italy have the same thing where everything has a male or female? Um, **[55:00]** >> yeah. >> Okay. So, then when you said la, so it's a a pizza is female. >> Yeah. Apparently, >> at least in French, a law a law something would mean it's a feminine >> which never made sense like >> is this hammer? >> They got all confused. It's like that does not scale over time. That worked really good in the 1800s or whatever, right? [laughter] It's like it's not scaling to now. >> Yeah, it doesn't scale. And also when things become plural, it becomes weird. So you can be like me and then you're like me. **[55:31]** Oo, that's even harder than French. >> Oh my god. Yeah, cuz I learned French. Actually, I I took French from fourth grade to like 10th grade and then a little in college. >> Robbie, too. You're nodding your head like you took French. >> I'll say it though. >> Okay. He doesn't speak French. K. What do you remember, Chuck? What What you got? >> I mean, I understood that he doesn't speak French. So, [laughter] yeah. Uh there's all kinds of things and they're like, "Oh, I sleep." And then like dor dormier **[56:04]** and I'm like oh dor dormier that's like same as French. There's some overlaps but I don't know not that much. All the >> I'm 804. >> Yeah. >> All the Latinbased stuff is like you can figure it out given enough time. Like if there's a sign and I'm trying to figure out what this sign means, >> just give me 25 minutes and I'll tell you. But like [laughter] >> yeah, >> you know in Italian they they say every letter. So like in French you can kind of like flow through it and you >> skip the last like five letters in **[56:36]** French. Yeah. >> No, they say them all. >> Informatica. >> That is our job. That's what we do. Informatica. >> Yeah. They have to say them all so that you can get all of the vowels. >> There has to be more vowels. >> Like it feels like they just took French or Spanish and we're like, you know what? It needs like way more vowels than it has. >> Yeah. Italian is based on Florentine dialect. So, Florence was like the centralized language chosen because it **[57:07]** had more vowels and sounded more like singongy. >> It does sound nice. >> Yeah, I'm bad at Italian. Adam, >> it's all good. >> Thanks for calling. >> You'll get there, dude. Your kids are going to be way better than you. You'll just be the old man yelling at the cloud. >> I barely bad Italian, you know. I'm going to get a nicer one though. A nicer apartment to not leave. >> Of course. >> Yeah, that's my plan. >> If you never leave your apartment, why does it matter what country you're in? >> Good question. Cuz the groceries that **[57:38]** come in are nicer. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah, that's one. >> Is the first ingredient not palm oil and everything you get from the store? >> No, [laughter] it isn't. >> Oh, man. Did you did you hear the comparison that I came back from Japan and was like Japan eats the web platform and the primitives? You know, like they're eating HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. And in America, we eat React apps all day. We just eat some bashed up, smashed up, ground up, full of preservatives, jam-packed with [ __ ] we **[58:09]** didn't ask for, turned into some monstrosity of food, and then we eat it and we say, "Thank you very much." >> I mean, that's episode. >> Yeah. [laughter] We don't have Taco Bell here. >> Yeah. Surprising. >> You're not missing out, man. Good or bad. You got to drive an hour for KFC >> on a delivery app that I could order KFC. And I'm kind of scared. [laughter] >> I'm a little scared. >> Why I said that, dude? So many people are in Europe and they're like, you visit and they're like, "Let me take you to this really yummy spot." And you're **[58:39]** like, "Oh, hells yeah. Let's go local. Let me have something that's like unique." And they go to KFC and you're like, "Son of a [ __ ] man. I have this at home and it sucks. Like, why are you eating this over the crispy All the fried chicken KFC worst fried chicken hot take. >> Yeah, it is. You're not wrong. Like Korean fried chicken, like legit Korean fried chicken. >> Bonchan's the best. >> No doubt. No dity. And you only [ __ ] yourself for like 3 days afterwards. >> That's the spice. That has nothing to do **[59:10]** with the fries. >> South Park episode about that, too. Chipotle. >> If you get the soy ginger, that doesn't happen, Robbie. You just choose. I like uh I don't even know what it's called, but I like the spicy and sweet one. I forget what they call it, but >> I don't know. I agree. The spicy one is the most delicious, >> but if you don't get it, you don't [ __ ] your pants. >> Turns out >> Well, worth worth. I'm not old enough that I care yet. >> Yeah, [laughter] same. Same. Even me now, I would come back and be like, "Worth it. Wearing a diaper. Don't **[59:42]** care." >> Oh, man. Yeah. That just reminds me. I was watching Bob's Burgers and they're like, "I don't I don't need to do the whole quote, but like the dad Bob is like, "Oh, I'm the same age as this guy." And his daughter's like, "Wait, they're 89? [laughter] >> Oh god, man. It's weird having a seven and nine-year-old." Oh, we at time. Yeah, let's do. >> We are at time. Yeah, we are over time. >> Can I go out with a song? I want to try and play a Christmas song. >> Do it. >> Go ahead. >> Do it. >> I'll sing it. >> This is Christmas. **[60:12]** >> I'm hoping it even like picks up on the mic. So, let me know if it's not. We'll just cut it out. >> So over. >> So I win. >> I also don't play in this standing position, so it's going to be a little weird. You can try to talk over it, though. Yeah, go ahead. >> No. >> Uh, that's a Zelda. That's not what I want. Uh, >> oh, no. I want that. >> Uh, you do. Okay. Here, we'll do Jingle Bells. >> Oh [ __ ] **[60:49]** Are you ready? [music] I'm [music] messing up. It's all good. No one knows. [music] How about super fast? Ready? [music] Oh. He's [laughter] expelling a lot of energy right now. **[61:20]** [music] >> Nice. >> I gave Robbie a banjo. I've never heard one banjo. >> I have not played it. I don't even play my guitars. I don't have time for that [ __ ] >> Oh man, I steal it. I steal time for instrument time. I It's not given to me. I don't have time to do anything for me in this entire world for this has been anyway I'm gonna like >> I'm upset about it. This this is time but I have to like calendarize my time and it's really annoying. I don't want to calendarize like guitar time. >> You can categorize work. **[61:52]** >> I don't know how guitar works on that. But >> I get my guitar off the wall and I play one chord and like >> my son somehow notices from like upstairs and goes, "Hi, can I take that?" And I'm like, "Sure. [laughter] The problem is you don't like brush your hair over your eye a little bit. >> Well, it's it's growing out. I'm growing the bangs. >> That's a throwback to his like emo days. >> I was doing back hair for like five plus **[62:23]** years. So, >> oh, we did we look up Gar Brooks emo. Have you seen Gar Brooks who turned and his whole album? >> I don't know. But my band had a song called Gar Brooks for No Reason. >> So, >> wow. >> Oh, man. He totally went emo. Dyed his hair dark over >> Chris whatever his name was. Chris something. >> Chris Angel. >> No, that's a [laughter] He had emo hair, didn't he? >> No. Yeah, but you know that's a magician. >> You're my darling. >> Well, this has gone downhill. We should **[62:53]** >> Okay, on that note, [laughter] >> bye. >> Okay, mine. You've been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot recorded in front of a live studio audience. >> What the [ __ ] are you talking about, Chuck? >> Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know people don't pay attention [music] to these, right? >> Head to whiskey.f fun for merch and to join our Discord server. I'm serious. It's like 2% of people who actually click these [music] links. And don't forget to leave us a fivestar review and **[63:24]** tell your friends about the show. All right, dude. I'm [music] out of here. Still got it.