State of the "Log" 2025  ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Integration, Not Coding, Is The New Bottleneck** - Kyle Galbraith warns the bottleneck in engineering is shifting from writing code to integrating it: builds, reviews, and deployments. - He predicts small teams plus many agents will explode velocity and force rethinking pipelines and review processes. Transcript: Kyle Galbraith The conversations that I have with customers, a lot of DevOps teams, platform teams, site reliability teams, they're really looking at this new era of software engineering that we're All living in. And they're starting to question like the bottleneck is no longer the act of writing code. The bottleneck is shifting. The most time-consuming part is integrating the code. It's everything that comes after. It's the build. It's the pull request review. It's the deployment. It's the getting it into production. Once it's in production, it's scaling up support teams to support it. It's adding documentation, all of these downstream problems. And so through the lens of Depot, what we're really starting to think about is there's a very realistic possibility that within the next two to three years, maybe even sooner, that we're Going to enter a world where an engineering team of three people could theoretically have the velocity of an engineering team of 300 people. And what's the consequences of that? What's the consequences of the code velocity spiking up to that level with such a small team? There's no way three engineers are going to be able to code review all of the code that's being created if there's three engineers and 297 agents also creating features and fixing bugs. So that's just like from a pull request perspective. But then you think about it through a build lens too of if your builds take 20 minutes with three humans, and now you're going to have three humans and 297 agents also running. ([Time 0:01:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bd0772b8-b038-40c8-9c9c-89f0c5b7504d)) - **Speed Up Builds And Improve Observability** - Use fast, reliable builds and stronger deployment observability to prevent pipeline slowdowns as agent-driven output rises. - Try Depot (depot.dev) or similar tooling to accelerate builds and reduce downstream friction. Transcript: Adam Stacoviak And so we're starting to think a lot about how do we eliminate the bottlenecks that come downstream and what can we do with Depot that streamlines that? So obviously, friends, we are in an era of disruption. Things are changing. You know it. I know it. That's how it is. And the thing with production and what Kyle's talking about here is how in the world do you get your builds to be faster? ([Time 0:03:06](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8f2d2088-86f0-4420-afe6-84dce3218c95)) - **Listener Marathon And Favorite Episodes** - Andrew Patton logged 105 hours listening to The Changelog and highlighted episodes like Friends 75 and Interview 635. - He praised Breakmaster Cylinder's music and looks forward to more shows in 2026. Transcript: Speaker 6 Hello, Changelog family. First time leaving a voicemail, which is very exciting. Though I've been listening for many years. Checked and changelog takes home the gold for my most listened to podcast in 2025 at 105 hours which would have been 111 and a half hours at 1x because i only use smart speed so as not to ruin Those banging beats this year um i really enjoyed uh friends 75 with matt ryer uh as a pianist, it was a joy hearing him switch from guitar to piano for that episode. And the Weird and Wonderful Matt World episode, which was episode 90, was also great. The entire Pipe Dream saga in the Kaizen episodes this year was very fun, including that dramatic onstage live launch. The Changelog interview 635 about Tiger Beetle was fascinating. Changelog Friends 96 with Steve Yeggy. He's always entertaining and certainly interesting. The interview 664 with Adam Jacob was another really interesting and enlightening episode. All the changelog beats releases and everything that break master cylinder provides. I really missed JS party this year. It's open for a few more dysfunctional developer episodes, but I love the multiple three-way conversations between Jared, Adam and Nick Nisi, including friends, Sadie Dine, 102, And the most recent. They are always very funny. They're always very relevant to the issues of the day. And I find it somewhat mind-blowing when I get a peek into the habits and methods of Nick Nisi. ([Time 0:07:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d3e2e1ff-9264-4e43-a51c-a7d8dd706f63)) - **Brett's Tech Picks And A Remix Joke** - Brett Cannon listed favorites including "The Power of the Button" and TigerBeetle interview, then joked about Andrea in the remix. - He recommended Mads and enjoyed the WSL-themed episode. Transcript: Kyle Galbraith It's brett cannon brett cannon here we go hello adam and jared it's brett cannon calling for that annual tradition to see whether i can read dates appropriately while i tell you about My favorite episodes that i got to listen to this year so i'm going to start off with the Power of the Button, which you actually recorded in 2024, but didn't publish until 2025, so I'm Safe. I found that episode kind of fun just to have that twist on it of talking about the physicality of the world and just how that kind of ties into technology and just kind of the different Approach of just seeing how things tie in both sides of both the physical and the software for all of us. The next episode I liked a lot was the 1000 Times Faster Financial Database with Yoran from from Tiger Beetle. I just thought that was a really cool chat to show that sometimes you don't have to take the journal solution. Sometimes it's okay to actually build something from scratch if it leads to a simple solution that really gets you what you're after. I also really enjoyed the chat with Bert Hubert, Build Software That Lasts. Just a lot of good advice that I think a lot of us could stand to listen to consistently. And then finally, of us. Wosl.exe episode, I liked a lot for two reasons. One, Adam's total infatuation with WOSL was rather infectious and great to hear. And also I wanted to give a letter of recommendation for Mads. He is an awesome person. And with that, to give Breakmaster Cylinder something to work with, Andrea did not listen to any of these episodes, so she loves them all equally, as does our kiddo. Thanks. ([Time 0:12:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/42176fd8-d521-402d-8602-10876681b08b)) - **Learning New Concepts Makes Episodes Stick** - Don McKinnon valued learning about deterministic simulation testing from the Terso episode. - He emphasized episodes that teach new technical concepts as especially rewarding. Transcript: Caller / Voicemail Contributors (Andrew Patton, Brett Cannon, Don McKinnon, Fernando Bevilacqua, Jamie Tanna, Jarvis Yang, Justin Dorfman, Nabeel Sulieman) Terso is rewriting SQLite in Rust. One reason is I'm a sucker for people building in Rust. Big surprise. Adam Stacoviak But more importantly, I enjoyed it because I got to learn about the concept of deterministic simulation testing, which I found to be pretty fascinating. I always love the episodes where I get to learn about a concept that I haven't run up against before. Anywho, thank you guys for the podcast and looking forward to what you have lined up in 2026. Pretty cool stuff. ([Time 0:20:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e8a20f3d-60fd-4eaa-a381-cb3fdedccd7c)) - **Agents And AI Need Physical Infrastructure Thinking** - Fernando Bevilacqua highlighted agent workflows and AI energy infrastructure as signals of how software will evolve. - He urged practical thinking about political and physical infrastructure around AI growth. Transcript: Caller / Voicemail Contributors (Andrew Patton, Brett Cannon, Don McKinnon, Fernando Bevilacqua, Jamie Tanna, Jarvis Yang, Justin Dorfman, Nabeel Sulieman) Hey, Adam and Jared. This is Fernando Bevalacqua speaking all the way from Brazil. I've been a long-time listener of the pod since 2015. My favorite episodes of this year were Flowing with Agents, episode 658, and Reaching Industrial Economies of Scale, episode 632, both with Byung Liu. They were very insightful about the usage of agents in the everyday activities we have with software development, and I think they give us a glimpse into the future of how software development And how the technology in the field will evolve. Last but not least, episode Solving the AI Energy Crisis 652 with Greg Uzuri. It was a very interesting talk about politics, about infrastructure, about how to grow AI in a more practical way, not about just technology, but how to build the real world, the physical Things we need to sustain this kind of advancement. ([Time 0:25:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6bfc0b2b-7dda-4f42-bed0-6d6b113db70c)) - **Listener Values Variety And Levity** - Jamie Tanna logged 74 episodes and nominated ~15 favorites across drama, levity, and deep dives. - He appreciated casual two-host chats and game shows as welcome variety. Transcript: Speaker 5 Hey, Adam and Jared. Happy State of the Log again. It's Jamie Tanna. I think this may be one of the most on-time voicemails I've sent you. Yeah, thanks again for another great year i ran the numbers and this year i've listened to a whopping 74 episodes which is about five days of listening time and i've managed to whittle Down an amazing year to a short lift of around 15 episodes um but i'll try and keep it even shorter than that. With the strife and the open source ecosystem this year, there were some really good discussions about some of the drama and some of the threats. Some of the really good episodes around this were Feroz in Changing the Friends 111, Mike McQuaid and Justin Sills in Changing the Friends 113, and a related discussion with Andrew Nesbitt and the excellent work he is doing with Ecosystems in Interviews 665. I've also really enjoyed what feels like an increase in levity this year, and especially some of the conversations with your friends like Amal in Friends 86, Dan Moore in Friends 78, Matt Araya in 75 and 90, and a whole lot of other Friends episodes. As ever, things like Hash Define and Friendly Few game shows have been really, really great. And I've really enjoyed them. Myself was really cool. I also really enjoyed some of the deep dives you'll have done into things like different folks blog posts. So for instance, friends 81 and the interview you had with Sean in interview 666. As a little bit of things like the interview with David Croshaw in Interview 629, Nick Neesey in Friends 88, 102 and 120, and Adam Jacob in Interview 664, and Steve Yege in Friends 96, And also Torsten Ball in Interviews 648. Finally, I want to again repeat, but it's been really nice just having a few episodes of just the two of you just chatting about stuff. Not necessarily even about the tech, just about life and movies and stuff. It has been really interesting and, yeah, a really nice balance between different things. So, thanks for a great year and here's to another. Thanks. ([Time 0:35:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2ed66058-45f6-44f1-922d-218f02ba2d6d)) - **A Decade-Long Listener Shout-Out** - Justin Dorfman praised the show after 10+ years of listening and hoped to attend future live events. - He thanked the hosts for consistently entertaining him. Transcript: Jerod Santo My gosh uh forever over a decade yeah hey jared adam justin dorfman here uh long time listener 10 plus years. And I'm really looking forward to 2026 and the guest that you will be having on and maybe even see you in North Carolina. Maybe anyway, have a great one. And thanks for always entertaining, at least me. Yeah. Take care. Adam Stacoviak I'm a big fan of justin max cdn days oh yeah uh really involved in the community always trying to love on people that's what i love about justin and i'm loving the work he's doing for source Graph and i think by proxy maybe amp too i'm not sure because of the divide now but uh i'm loving his role and what he's doing for them and just kind of keeping people informed with what source Jerod Santo Graph is doing what amp is doing and uh he's yeah super awesome dude i always love to hear from you justin don't be a stranger hopefully we'll see you in north carolina here's remix. Hey, Jared Adam, Justin Dorfman here. Long time listener, 10 plus years. I'm really looking forward to 26 and the guests that you will be having on and maybe see you in North Carolina. Maybe. Anyway, have a great one. And thanks for always entertaining me. Caller / Voicemail Contributors (Andrew Patton, Brett Cannon, Don McKinnon, Fernando Bevilacqua, Jamie Tanna, Jarvis Yang, Justin Dorfman, Nabeel Sulieman) Yeah. ([Time 0:51:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/109bd6b7-e184-4055-9137-28fdf3a80bed)) - **Denver Meetup Was Peak Changelog** - Nabeel Sulieman's peak changelog moment was the Denver meetup and the wilderness adventure with Breakmaster Cylinder. - He also cited homelab, Kaizen, and Oxide episodes as personal favorites. Transcript: Jerod Santo Hello, Adam and Jared. Kyle Galbraith What a year it's been. This has definitely been the year of AI, and I do appreciate and count on your content to keep up to date with all of that. However, my favorite episodes personally are the ones around Homelab, Kaizen, and Oxide. Those have all been great, but definitely without a doubt, peak changelog for me was the meetup in Denver. It was great meeting you all and making several new friends along the way. And I mean, who would have imagined that we'd all go adventuring in the wilderness together with the mysterious Breakmaster Cylinder and battle a whole bunch of rattlesnakes. It definitely a trip to remember anyways kudos to you all for another great year of great content take care merry christmas happy new years cheers and uh i'll see you on the other side Of the year cheers ([Time 0:53:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/71ce1121-9787-4f75-8f49-5d10bfcdbd82)) - **Cover AI With Skepticism And Variety** - Balance AI coverage: discuss new tech without becoming an "AI-only" show and keep skeptical, level-headed takes. - Mix AI topics with non-AI episodes to serve varied listener preferences. Transcript: Jerod Santo And then I look back at our most recent episodes. Like I go, I go through our playlist and I'm like, maybe we are just doing too much of this. And I look at it and I'm like, you know what? Nope. There's plenty of stuff in there that's not, it's just like confirmation bias, I guess, when people say it's all we talk about. Adam Stacoviak I think it, it definitely is a recurring topic. Oh, yeah. But it's not the isolated primary topic, obviously. Of the show. Jerod Santo Yeah, I mean, it's our episodes it is. Adam Stacoviak Yeah, I think even like the show I did recently with Alex Kuchmar was that we were talking about the Linux rabbit hole, essentially. Because I didn't even plan that, really. We just started talking about the fun stuff. And that was kind of fun. And I think we were about 50 minutes in, and he mentioned something he had done, vibe coding. And we talked about it on the podcast as well. And I didn't even plan to mention it, really. Yeah. So it wasn't like a topic on my mind, but obviously he laid down the spades. So we played spades. Jerod Santo Well, just wanted to mention that we do think about it and we hope to bring somewhat level headed and yet also keeping to the edge of what things are going on and not ignoring it just because It's AI. ([Time 0:57:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e24a05d4-07e5-49a4-8074-99ace2475e3c)) - **On-Stage Episodes Reveal Company DNA** - Adam valued the Oxide on-stage episode for its cultural insight into hiring and material processes. - He saw Oxide's practices as core to their DNA and evidence they've 'crossed the chasm.' Transcript: Adam Stacoviak Very special moment to be on stage with them recording in the IRL as part of Oxcon 25, 2025, which is their internal conference. It's not really promoted or published much. If you are in the know with Oxide and what they're doing, then you probably know about Oxcon. It's their once per year annual internal conference. And this year they had some big news this year internally. We can't share that news because we're on our NDA. But if you were there, wow. I mean, there's some cool stuff happening there. And we've said crossing the chasm. Yeah, I'd say it's probably safe to say they've crossed the chasm, honestly. They're not crossing, they've crossed it. And just to be there with, you know, I would say internet legends, you know, like, wow, dude. I mean, such a fan of, of Brian and Steve, but then also to be in their headquarters office on their stage podcasting about how they do materials, which is a crucial, uh, like it is the, The beginning of the DNA of their DNA for oxide. ([Time 1:11:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f2d40c60-73ae-430e-af7a-98ad4dc34e96)) - **Live Shows Have Flaws And Value** - The live Kaizen Pipely episode and the Nora Jones Denver interview were memorable IRL recordings. - Adam and Jerod said technical glitches affected stage delivery but still valued the live moments. Transcript: Jerod Santo That was Friends 105. And of course, we did that one live on stage. We also had Andrew mentioning that as well. The one that wasn't mentioned was the interview show that we did. So I want to give a shout out to that one. Live from Denver with Nora Jones. Interviews 653. You and I, Nora Jones, on stage. Is it the best interview we've ever done in our lives? Probably not. You know, could it have gone better? Yeah, sure, of course it could have. Was it still a cool thing that I'm glad happened? And that all in all turned out pretty well? ([Time 1:13:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3adb85d1-d623-45e6-af7e-395a23f30153)) - **Rust+Python Tooling Can Be Business-Ready** - Adam highlighted UV and Astral as examples of tooling that pairs Rust performance with Python ergonomics and viable business models. - He admired their workspace design and registry-driven approach. Transcript: Adam Stacoviak And I'd say Charlie Marsh, Astral, UV, what they're doing for Python with Rust is super, super cool. I've been looking at the design even of the UV library in terms of like the organization of all the, the workspaces inside of the way that Rust composed itself in a, in a directory structure. So cool. I mean, just really, I mean, they have different teams doing different crates and just like the autonomy, each one of them, just such a really very verbose design. I think he even commented on that. But just what they've done for Python on the speed front. I'm a UV user. So whenever I install or mess with Python, which isn't too frequently, I'm reaching for UV over PIP for those reasons. It's just fast. A lot of things to learn. And they're actually making a business around it. Like it's not just dev tooling for dev tooling sake. They've built a business around it. They got a registry. They're doing even more stuff. It's really cool. ([Time 1:16:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e546f6e2-7d5e-461f-ab7c-e76f63648476)) - **Use Game Shows To Diversify Podcast Format** - Jerod recommended the May Pound To Find episode for newcomers to their game shows as a high-energy entry point. - He used game shows to stress-test format variety and community engagement. Transcript: Jerod Santo Now we play a lot of these games. We've had our listeners mention them as a group. But if we were just to name one from this year, there's been three pound to finds this year, one back in May and then July. And then most recently, of course, we had our tournament of champions in November. But if I had to pick one that cracked me up and had a blast, I would say it was the one back in May, Pound Define, I'm Going Pants, with Angelica Hill, Matthew Sanabria, John Henry Moeller, You and I, of course, and the mysterious Rape Master Cylinder himself, for a hilarious and crazy game of P pound to find that had me laughing out loud as I listened back later. ([Time 1:18:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e05d2b2b-6752-4397-a5a1-9ad03afd154f)) - **Talking With A Platform Visionary** - Adam described interviewing Werner Vogels as a goosebump moment and valued big-picture theory over prescriptive detail. - He framed Werner as a visionary and influential platform thinker. Transcript: Adam Stacoviak Werner, man. Talking to the CTO of Amazon, Werner Vogels, on the pod, that's recent. It's recency bias. Jerod Santo That is recent. Adam Stacoviak Just really interesting to talk to a legend like that on a podcast and to go through predictions and to just talk about things that isn't like, so how does Amazon work? Or how does AWS work? I mean, that'd be kind of cool too, but at the same time, you get to zoom out and get theory. I'd rather get theory from that level of a thinker than prescription you know like here's what you go to do a plus b gets c you know i feel like theory big picture how he thinks you know i got A snapshot of this this legend and i don't want to call him an old guy necessarily but he's obviously i'm old too but he's older than i am right i just mean it like you get to sit down with like An internet legend and kind of a grandpa to software developers and to platform makers. A visionary, a thinker, a discoverer, like he built it on his laptop. ([Time 1:22:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4aa21752-946e-4606-89e3-688c540369ac)) - **Zipline Feels Like Practical Future Tech** - Jerod called Zipline a near-future tech to watch for physical delivery at scale and enjoyed learning early about its trajectory. - He sees drone delivery as a tangible, local transformation rather than abstract hype. Transcript: Jerod Santo Agree and i'm also gonna go recent because i had so much fun learning about zipline man i felt like cool guest cool company cool combo of questions from us there's a good balance to that Show i feel like we all hit it off and i honestly just think that it's a seriously cool technology that is right on the you know it's before it changes the world and in good ways but i think It's going to and yeah there'll be you know unintended consequences as there are with all new tech but i just think it's i still just can't wait for zipline to be in omaha because i want To order a chipotle burrito and have it delivered to my house while it's still too hot it's gonna burn my mouth like i want to just come down out of the sky i think that's just a magical thing And i think it's going to uh just be a cool a cool piece of our lives here in the future and i like to be able to learn about it before it's out there much ([Time 1:23:09](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fa46006e-3765-4abe-8df2-299d349c70fe)) - **Year-End Movie Riff And Nostalgia** - Adam and Jerod closed by riffing on favorite movie moments, 4K nostalgia, and Adam's urge to watch VHS-era films on vintage hardware. - They used movie chat as a humanizing, off-topic wrap to the year. Transcript: Jerod Santo Bad and it's it just screams through cgi even more when it's crystal clear in 4k like what stuff is cgi when he gets like his skin blown off and you can see the metal underneath and stuff Adam Stacoviak Oh yeah like it's you can tell it's a puppet it's so nasty when he's looking at himself in the mirror right like on one shot it's clearly an animatronic i mean just like the whole thing is Animatronic so it's almost better in low res you know yeah it kind of ruins it it really does i mean if i'm being honest if you don't like going to an open casket funeral or something like That man that's kind of what it is okay that ruins the movie in a way for you right don't do that you know do it get the uh 1080p you know yeah i mean i guess in that regard 720p go back on dvd and Just stretch that sucker you'll never know you know what i thought about doing the jared was this man's i was like i'm gonna go buy i'll reveal i'll reveal the deep cut here. Okay. I was going to go on to our favorite place called eBay and purchase a VHS player and RCA that to my receiver. Not optics, nothing like that. No HDMI. RCA. The red, the yellow, and I think the white, I think, brings the audio. Mono audio. And the film I wanted to get, what was provoking me to do this, was Cutting Edge. Was that like a skiing movie? It was a very close, yes. Snowboarding movie? Jerod Santo Very, very close. It was ice skating. Okay, that makes sense. With D.B. Adam Stacoviak S that almost sounds like a will ferrell comedy it you know what i think it inspired i think it probably blades of glory if that's what you think of blades of glory i've never heard of that What yeah why because my wife and i both loved this film before we knew each other. It was released in 92. And so this is one of those movies that as you learn more and more about your wife over the years, like it took probably 10 years for her to tell me that this was one of her favorite movies. Oh, this is a rom-com. Jerod Santo I was expecting it to be more of like an 80s chick flick. Sports and romance, dude. Wow. I mean, you know, it's double-edged. Consider figure skating sports. Sorry, just offended some people there. Of course, the guy has a hockey stick, so he plays hockey and she's a figure skater. Is that the storyline? Yeah. Adam Stacoviak Former Olympic hockey player Doug Dorsey, played by DB Sweeney, pairs up with stuck up figure skater, Kate Mosley. Moria Kelly is her name. And like the way they come together, it's a good love story. You know, I'm a romantic at heart. And but this is the one that was provoking me. I was like, I haven't done it yet. So now that I'm seeing this again, I kind of want to do it. And it's mainly brought on by the letdown that was 4k terminator like i kind of wish i didn't do that by 4k yeah well i was telling another i'm like babe it'd be so cool to have a theater like We have 120 inch screen uh laser 4k projector super awesome sound system and then put a VHS player in there and watch old films from our back in the day. Jerod Santo Old films from 1992. I'm missing a film. What's the, now it is, you're right. What's the worst that could happen though? It's not like, uh, you know, the kiss scene, they cut to like a mannequin or something like there's no CGI in this. Not in that one. Yeah. Adam Stacoviak That one there's, that one there's gonna be fun. Like I thought for the nostalgia, cause I know when I watched it originally was probably VHS. Jerod Santo Oh, yeah. Adam Stacoviak So go back to the roots, you know. Jerod Santo It wasn't on DVD. Then you should also go one step further and get one of those auto rewinders so you can rewind all your VHSs, you know. Oh, yeah. Put it in there. Be kind. Adam Stacoviak Rewind. Be kind. Rewind, man. Be kind. Rewind. Yeah. So there you go. Yeah, I'd probably skip terminator in 4k unless you just have to have the nostalgia it was laughable though man so i'm gonna watch terminator 2 and i'm hoping it's not a ruin yeah i think That one some films though are just amazing like alien uh the alien series alienens. Those are two distinct movies. Aliens was second. Alien was first. Jerod Santo Right. A rare example of a sequel being better than the original, perhaps. Adam Stacoviak Yeah, for sure. And like Aliens, there's a lot of talk. Like don't go and watch it because it's so crystal clear now. It's so good. Like it almost ruins the original grunginess of it. Weird. But they kind of introduced it in the process, so it's clear, but it's also grungy. I think it's good, you know, personally. That one didn't have a lot of ruin for me, but Terminator was kind of funny, man. It was kind of funny. That's what you get. Grab it at the end, y'all. ([Time 1:35:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5b48c008-d1be-4abb-9d55-5f68da3ff528))