Stop Writing Boring Change Messaging: Donald Miller  🔗 **Source:** [Stop Writing Boring Change Messaging: Donald Miller](https://share.snipd.com/episode/89093d6d-752e-4b31-b299-0c478beb3b5a) ## Highlights - **People Live Inside Their Own Hero Stories** - Every person sees themselves as the hero of a story, so changing behavior requires changing their story's plot points. - Donald Miller shows shifting wants, conflicts, and rewards rewires identity using the dating-to-family example. Transcript: Donald Miller Think that depending on what you're changing, whether you've acquired another business or you're launching a new product or you've got a whole new strategy moving forward into the Market, whatever it is that you're changing. There's the physical changes that are taking place in the boardroom. Once you pick up the bullhorn and speak from the boardroom to the masses, to your organization, what you really want to do is change the frame. You want to change the way people are thinking about something. And in order to do that, the most effective way to do that is to invite everybody into a story. And let me explain kind of how StoryBrand works or why it works, really. Every human being sees themselves as a hero in a story. Every human being. And a story is a character that has to overcome conflict to get something that they want. That's really it. A character overcoming conflict to get something that they want. And so if you want to change somebody's life, if you want to change the direction of their energy, if you want to change their actions, if you want to change their attitude toward change Itself, you need to change the plot points of their story. ([Time 0:02:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/55ec64d5-e65d-4cc3-abd6-0c26eeacfbac)) - **Repeat Five Memorable Soundbites Relentlessly** - Create a few tight, memorable soundbites and repeat them relentlessly to reframe people's thinking. - Miller recommends predetermined strategic phrases that are memorized across the organization to change what people want and measure. Transcript: Donald Miller You want to change the way people are thinking about something. And in order to do that, the most effective way to do that is to invite everybody into a story. And let me explain kind of how StoryBrand works or why it works, really. Every human being sees themselves as a hero in a story. Every human being. And a story is a character that has to overcome conflict to get something that they want. That's really it. A character overcoming conflict to get something that they want. And so if you want to change somebody's life, if you want to change the direction of their energy, if you want to change their actions, if you want to change their attitude toward change Itself, you need to change the plot points of their story. Right. And if you can do that, you will change their entire behavior. For example, let's say, you know, there's a young man that I had a conversation with recently. He got married a little bit later at about 35. And he had played the field for the last 15 years. Michael Bungay-Stanier I mean, from 20 to 35, he was a serial dater. And stick with us here because, look, I know this is beginning to sound like a relationship podcast, but Don's actually taking us somewhere that matters. Donald Miller And his identity as a man was really about the number of gals he could date. And it was catch and release. Michael, it was awful. And he and I sat down and I knew, okay, the way to change this guy's attitude and help him become a successful man is to change the frame. And the frame used to be, how many ladies can you date? And the new frame is, how satisfied can you make one woman? Right. And how healthy can you help a child grow up and become? And so he was in a story that was a really fun high school coming of age story. And now you're in an adult story about becoming a man. And we've got to change the definition of what it takes to become a man. So now what do we want? We want to be an incredible survival asset to a woman and to some children. Right. Rather than let's date as many women as we can. So that has to change. What the character wants has to change. The other thing that has to change is the conflict. Right. So the conflict used to be, how can I get these women to date me? And now the conflict is, how can I stay faithful and loyal to one woman? So we've got to change that conflict. Then we've got to change the reward. You are a great man if all these women want you. Now you are a great man if you're able to satisfy one woman, because she's going to be the ultimate test of whether or not you're a good man. She's going to be. Your children being healthy and not having a father wound is the ultimate test now of you being a great man. And once we just change the dynamics of the story, we change the attitude with which he approaches his life, and we change his actions. And so really all we did was change the plot points. Right. So that's the challenge for any leader affecting change. We have now purchased a company. We are now going digital. We are now a leaner team that has incorporated AI into all of our systems. And what you didn't do was change what we want and how we measure success. And we've got to be able to do that. And the way that you do that is with soundbites that are predetermined, are incredibly strategic, and are repeated over and over so that the people that you are dealing with have them Memorized. ([Time 0:02:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f5aba1be-deb3-4ca1-8421-30111798c09d)) - **How Rebranding Guides Sparked Backlash** - Donald Miller misstepped by rebranding his certified guides as coaches without listening first, creating backlash. - He had to apologize individually on Zoom and discovered the new title ripped apart their identity. Transcript: Donald Miller There's a CEO of a company called StoryBrand named Donald Miller, who recently made a huge mistake. I'm not even going to throw anybody else under the bus. I can throw myself under the bus. I have a group of StoryBrand certified guides. They're freelance marketers. They use my frameworks to grow their marketing business. At about 700 of those, and AI came along and began to massively disrupt and take away their incomes. So outside of my power, you know, my agency, something began to take their jobs. So I knew that this was coming. I knew that it was going to be scary and tragic and very, very hard on them. And so I decided, you know what? If we stop calling them guides and we start calling them coaches. Right. And we actually say, as a coach, you're going to help small businesses navigate the AI opportunities. You're going to become less of an executioner and more of a strategist. Right. That is the way that I can help you not just keep your job, but actually make more money and be more valuable to the small business community. That was perfect. I nailed that. Right. What I didn't nail was actually rolling it out and communicating it to the guide community themselves. Right. I announced it. I should not have announced it. What I should have done is gone around the country and had regional meetups and said, here's the change that's coming. How are you feeling about it? What are you worried about? Here's my proposed idea. Do you like it? Do you want to buy in? What would you change about it? In other words, I would have told them that my heart is all about you keeping your job and navigating and pivoting this. Rather than that, I treated them like children who just need to do what I tell them to do. Michael Bungay-Stanier Just linger on that line from Don. Even with your very best intentions, is there any chance you might be treating people like children who just need to do what you tell them to do? It is so seductively easy to slip into this mode. Donald Miller And let me tell you something, Michael. I should have called you. Yeah. If I would have called my friend Michael Bungay Stanier, he would have said, Don, everything you're about to do is a mistake. Right. But in my arrogance, I didn't do it. And I mean this really as a heartfelt warning for every leader listening. You will pay for it if you don't listen. And you will pay for it if you don't get these people involved. And Horst Schultz's language, you know, he ran Ritz Carlton. Yeah. He said, these people will not only leave you, they will become active terrorists against your organization. Right. They will have a vested interest in tearing you down. Now, the truth is 60 to 70% were really with me from the get-go. They saw it. They knew it. But I created a couple hundred active terrorists against my organization. And imagine where this put me. It put me in the position of, wait, I love you. I care about you. I'm trying to make you money. I'm trying to save your jobs. AI is coming after you. Right. And you are on the internet talking badly about me. Right. And then I got resentful and defensive. I mean, I made every mistake in the book. So let's talk about how not to do what Donald Miller did and what I'm doing now, because now I'm having to play catch up. I am doing individual Zoom calls with the people that I didn't listen to and I'm apologizing. Yeah. And I'm saying, I'm so sorry I didn't listen. ([Time 0:07:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/723f6349-a32f-4644-922b-fab973b0028d)) - **Prioritize Empathy And Involvement** - Lead with empathy and overcommunicate: tell people you care and involve them in creating the plan. - Miller says say "I love you" and show you care more than your ego to reduce resistance and active sabotage. Transcript: Donald Miller AI is coming. We cannot have a plan to stop AI. There is no plan to stop AI. Nothing will work. What's our plan to deal with it together? Michael Bungay-Stanier How do you manage the anxiety? Because this is a truism that you're speaking, which is like people don't really like change being done to them. They want to do change with you. And in theory, everybody agrees with that. In practice, it's like messy and slow and hard. And what happens if they come up with all sorts of stuff that you're like, that's not even a good idea. How do you find that dance between wanting to engage people and wanting to maintain some control and kind of brand clarity around the work that you're doing. Donald Miller I do think we need to understand that a percentage of people are not going to come with you. Right. A percentage of people are going to be frustrated. A percentage of people are going to blame you for the existence of artificial intelligence. So it's your fault. Michael Bungay-Stanier At last, I figured this out. Yeah, exactly. Donald Miller And they're not capable, in my particular instance, they're not capable of being strategists anyway. Right. And they're going to take it out on you. But you can't use that as an excuse. Yeah. And I think the thing, the thing that is so hard for people who are wired like me, which is virtually everybody watching this podcast, we are not people who are probably very, very hot On empathy. We are extremely driven. We're high D on the disc test, Enneagram threes, Enneagram eights. If everybody does what I tell them to do, they're going to be okay. Right. And I want you to know that the number one thing that the people that you lead need to hear is, I love you. I care about you. I will do anything so that you don't get hurt. And you do kind of need to embrace, to some degree, metaphorically, the role of mother or father. And you need to care about them the way that you would care about your own children. And when you do that, you mitigate enormous amounts of damage against you. Right. Enormous amounts of resistance and what Horst Schultz calls terrorism. Yeah. So I think you just have to remember that you're not dealing with something made of plastic and steel. You're dealing with a human being. And as inefficient as it feels to slow down and say, people need to know that I care about them. And not only that, people need to know that I care about them more than my own ego. ([Time 0:11:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d98c5b27-c69c-4de3-8cd0-e070e295d8bc)) - **Change Is A Hole And A Rope Narrative** - Effective change frames as: peace → hole (problem) → guide throws a rope (plan) → return to peace. - The guide must name the hole, empathize, throw the rope, and show the path back to stability. Transcript: Donald Miller If you're listening, I'll tell you what I'm drawing. If you're watching, you can actually see it. Every story is really the same story. What you've got is a hero. Yeah. The hero is walking along and they're at peace. They're stable. Everything is great. Right. And then the next thing that happens is the hero falls into a hole which destabilizes their peace. Right. So change is really about the destabilization and re-stabilization of peace. Everything was great, and you guys went and changed it. Right. So now we've got a hero in a hole. Right. So what happens is a new character comes along, and this character is called the guide. This is Obi-Wan Kenobi. This is Yoda. This is Mr. Michael Bungay-Stanier Miyagi. This is Mary Poppins. Right. This is Telemachus in the Odyssey. Exactly. Donald Miller There's a guide who helps the hero win. So the guide comes to the edge of the hole, looks down in the hole and says, I am so sorry you were in that hole. I feel for you. Empathy. I don't like this for you. It may even be a hole that I had to create that you fell in. But I feel for you. That is a very important step. So first, you acknowledge the hole. Yeah. You name the hole. The hole is, we just bought an airline. The hole is, we just incorporated AI and laid off 20% of our workforce. Yeah. It's a hole. Then you throw a rope into the hole, and the rope is our change. This is our plan. This is our product. This is what we are doing to get you out of the hole and return you to a sense of peace. So there's three states. One is peace. Two is destabilization of peace. And three is a return to peace. ([Time 0:17:17](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a89a4ac6-b5e5-4e8a-a9af-f88588e4c821)) - **Use The PEACE Soundbite Framework** - Use the PEACE five soundbites: Problem, Empathy, Answer, Change, End result, and get everyone to memorize them. - Miller cites YNAB: "Have you ever worried about money?" then "Download the YNAB app" then "Never worry about money again." Transcript: Donald Miller Please. In order to invite somebody into a story in which they are restabilized. And guess what the acronym is? It's peace. So the first, the P stands for problem. You've got to identify the problem. You've got to say, here's the problem we are in. The next, and we've talked about this, and it's something that you are so good at and I've learned from you in so many ways, Michael, is empathy. I empathize. I feel your pain. Yeah. Next is the answer. So the answer is either the product you were selling or the plan that we've incorporated to get us back to peace. Yeah. Then the change. And the change is, this is how you are going to be different. Right. After you institute this plan. And then finally, the end result. So the end result is the happy ever after scene. Michael Bungay-Stanier Problem, empathy, the answer, the change required, and the end result. I mean, it sounds obvious, doesn't it? But that's actually its strength. Donald Miller So let me give you an example. We had a company come to us called You Need a Budget. You Need a Budget is a $50 million finance app on the App Store. They make $50 million a year. They're incredibly successful, have a cult following, and are extremely well-led organization with a CEO named Todd Curtis. They've never had a year where they haven't grown. However, they feel like they're not reaching their potential. So let me tell you the soundbites we came up with for them to grow their organization, and it's already working. That's great. The problem is, have you ever worried about money? I love that. Now, do you know anybody, Michael, who's ever worried about money? Michael Bungay-Stanier There are maybe one or two people I can think of who that may have crossed their mind now and then. That's exactly it. Donald Miller So now we've identified our target market, which is every human being. The empathy is we know how it feels to worry about money. Don't think, don't overthink this. Yeah. It's just, hey, the market is changing and we've had to change as a company and we know how it feels to be frustrated with change. Yeah. We like the way things were too, but they had to change. And we know this is frustrating to our entire workforce. I'm loving this. Don, I'm going to interrupt you taking me through the soundbites. Michael Bungay-Stanier I just want you to tell me what the essence of a soundbite is. A soundbite is a fixed phrase that is memorable and repeatable. Donald Miller Right. That's it. A fixed phrase that is memorable or repeatable. And it's the piece framework, these five soundbites, it's an exercise in memorization. We are trying to get the people we are leading to memorize these five soundbites. Right. And when we do so, going back to our initial point, we're reframing the story of everybody listening. Michael Bungay-Stanier Perfect. Donald Miller Okay, that's helpful. So, have you ever worried about money? We know how it feels to worry about money. Yeah. Download the YNAB app. That's it. Right. That's the rope going into the hole. That's the answer. Michael Bungay-Stanier Yeah, that's the rope. Donald Miller Download the YNAB app, and we will help you get good with money. That's the change. Right. And the end result is so you never worry about money again. ([Time 0:19:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c6c4ee1e-634c-4b7b-bff3-136a93b62b7e)) - **Don't Make People Think Keep Messages Simple** - Make soundbites simple and concrete; don't make people think or be vague. - Miller contrasts "change your relationship with money" (vague) with "never worry about money again" (clear and clickable). Transcript: Donald Miller Mistakes that they make, any company, they're too elusive. Their soundbites are too complicated. They're too hard to understand. Right. For instance, YNAB changed the header on their website from change your relationship with money to never worry about money again. Now, which do you think is the more attractive offer? I like a good rhetorical question, Don. It's the second one, right? The second one. So which one is going to get more clicks in an ad? Never worry about money again. Right. So we say things like change your relationship with money when really, if you read that statement, what in the world does that even mean? Right. And if, if, so if you're elusive or if you're causing, we always say around my office, don't make people think. Right. And as soon as you start making people think, double-digit percentages of people start tuning out. Michael Bungay-Stanier Right. Donald Miller Don't make people think. ([Time 0:24:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c1c8ae65-aeec-47d7-82f5-26b3e38d596a)) - **Lead With The Problem To Boost Perceived Value** - Emotional resonance comes from owning the problem and going negative about the situation, which makes your solution feel more valuable. - Miller: talk 75% about the problem and 25% about the solution to increase perceived value. Transcript: Donald Miller You want to do to capture people's emotions is you want to own a problem. When you're telling a story, the story really doesn't get interesting all until there's a problem. Right. So if I'm telling you a story, let me tell you a story, Michael. Let's make a rom-com. Let's write a rom-com right now. Guy walks into a coffee shop, sees a young woman across the room, walks over, says, I just noticed you. You're really cute. My name is Don. Can we talk? Sits down, meet cute. Great chemistry. She says, I know this is crazy, but my parents are in town. Do you want to meet them? The next scene is meets the parents. The next scene, they're at a church. The next scene, they're married. The most boring story in the history of the world because there's no conflict. I mean, I'm delighted for them, but it's a pretty boring story. Why in the world did I pay $10 for this movie ticket? Right. If I say, okay, let's change that. Guy walks into a coffee shop, meets a young woman. There's clearly a lot of chemistry. And suddenly, 10 minutes in the conversation, she says, this is inappropriate. I can't have this conversation. I'm so sorry. Packs her bag, walks out. He doesn't get her phone number. He doesn't know her name. Right. Now we've got a story because there's conflict. Right. The love of his life just walked out of the coffee shop. And now we're wondering, how are they going to get back together? Yeah. Let's make it worse. He gets a call from his mother later that day. She says, come home for dinner tonight. Your brother is back in town and he's got an announcement. And he says, I can't even believe you guys still talk to my brother. He's a con artist. He's, he's stolen all your money. He's the worst person in the world. I told you never talk to him again. I know he's your son. No, he's changed. He's changed. He goes home for dinner. The brother walks in with the woman at the coffee shop introducing her as his fiancée. Now we got a story. This is my story, Don. Michael Bungay-Stanier I've lived the story. I had no idea you knew so much about me, but that's fine. Hopefully, Michael, you ended up with the girl. I don't even want to talk about it. It's not a comedy. I'm just saying it's a tragedy, but that's fine. Listen, I'm kidding. Every great leader is going to stand up and say, conflict is here, and here's exactly what it is. Donald Miller Here's the hole we are in, but we're going to get out of it. So the way to emotionally resonate with the audience, interestingly enough, is to go negative. Right. And when you go negative, it's interesting, it's urgent. But the other thing is you are not perceived as negative. The situation is perceived as negative. That's interesting. You are perceived as positive because you have the rope that gets everybody out. Yeah. And the worse the negative is, the more valuable you are as the leader, because you're getting everybody out of a really bad situation. That's why you'll never see a politician say, America has some mild problems that will not be difficult to fix. And when we're done fixing them, we will be mildly in better shape, but you probably won't even notice the difference. Right. Michael Bungay-Stanier I'm just loving what Don says here. The situation is negative, which actually allows you to be seen as positive because you have the rope. There's something here about figuring out how to calibrate the challenge ahead. So you're not making it terrifying and impossible, but you're also not pretending it's just a small dip in the rope. Really, the question is, what's the right heft of problem? So your offer of the rope is both useful and welcomed. Donald Miller You can't get elected that way. You've got to say, it's awful. Everything is terrible, but I'm going to fix it and make it great. You know, stories love contrast. And so, and the reality is America is in bad shape and you probably are leading through some change that is negatively affecting people and you've got to have a plan to get them out. But I think that I always tell people, if you talk 75% about the problem 25% about the solution, the solution will be perceived as even more valuable. ([Time 0:27:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fef89c56-bf36-4a29-b0ec-be050d8f4b42)) - **A Villain Makes The Hero Shine** - Creating a clear villain unites the team and elevates the hero by contrast; the worse the villain, the more valuable the leader's rope. - Miller advises articulating the threat and the plan to defeat it. Transcript: Donald Miller Want to make a hero look good in a story, create a diabolical villain. Right. And the worse that villain is, the more pure and righteous and holy the hero looks. And so, you know, as a leader, you've got to create a villain and you've got to articulate why they are so dangerous and why this is so painful and why they are so dark and the threat that That villain presents to our community and our culture and the fact that we're not going to be taken down by that villain. And here's our plan to not be taken down by that villain. ([Time 0:31:59](https://share.snipd.com/snip/03d29aea-3a35-4928-bd0c-c5dad8f61a0b)) - **Turn Strategy Into A Napkin Size Slogan** - Reduce complex strategy into a napkin-sized soundbite that spreads at the water cooler and repeat it until it sticks. - Miller warns long books lose to short slogans like "build a wall" in public persuasion. Transcript: Donald Miller Is. And it's what we do. It's what I do as a consultant. It's turn everything into a memorable soundbite. Right. Now, let me tell you something, Michael. If I'm a writer, I write books. You write books. I love writing books. I love spending a year writing a book. It's my favorite thing. I just love it. Michael Bungay-Stanier Yep. Donald Miller If I write a book about how we're going to solve a problem and a competing leader comes up with a soundbite, everybody's going to follow the soundbite. In other words, if I spend a thousand hours writing a book and somebody else spends four minutes with a napkin, they're going to beat me. Let me give you an example. Jeb Bush wrote a book about immigration. Yep. You read it? I love that book. No, I have not read this book, yeah. I haven't read it either. He lost the election to a guy who said, build a wall. Right. In other words, thousands of hours writing a detailed book about how to deal with this problem lost to three words. Right. And I would say to you as a leader, you're going to lose. Nobody's going to follow you unless you have reduced this into a message that can be passed around at the water cooler. Right. And then you've got to say it so many times that you feel almost silly repeating it again. You know, you've got to put it on a red hat with white letters. I mean, I went to Finland eight time zones away when Donald Trump was running for president. I said, what does Donald Trump want to do with America? In a Finnish action, 8,000 people at a conference said, make America great again. Now, listen, I'm not a fan of the Republicans or the the Democrats. I think they're both not really helping. Yeah, this is not a political comment. It's not a political conversation that Donald Trump has a brilliance around soundbite. He has a brilliance around soundbites, and he was trained in the media, and you can learn something from him. Yeah. And I think that it's a way, this is easier than you thought it was going to be. Right. But it takes enormous amounts of discipline to stick to that message and repeat it over and over and over again. ([Time 0:33:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2c1833af-b840-452b-bd7f-297c4ee136a6))