THIS is why you need to CHUCK The Passion Translation

THIS is why you need to CHUCK The Passion Translation ![rw-book-cover](https://readwise-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/static/images/article4.6bc1851654a0.png) 🔗 **Source:** [THIS is why you need to CHUCK The Passion Translation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [bible-translation, passion-translation, biblical-criticism, translation-theory, theological-interpretation, charismatic-movement] > author: Mike Winger > source: Remnant Radio > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g > date created: {{date:YYYY-MM-DD}} {{time:HH:mm}} > > # 🏷️ Title: THIS is why you need to CHUCK The Passion Translation >  ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ## 📝 Summary - **What happened**: Mike Winger presents scholarly analysis revealing serious issues with The Passion Translation by Brian Simmons, including lack of proper credentials, deceptive claims about Aramaic sources, and systematic insertion of hyper-charismatic terminology into biblical text. - **Why it matters**: The translation presents itself as suitable for primary Bible study while scholars classify it as an interpretive paraphrase or "targum" rather than faithful translation, potentially misleading millions of Christians. - **Key stakeholders**: Charismatic movement leaders (Bill Johnson, etc.), Brian Simmons, scholarly community (Douglas Moo, Craig Blomberg, others), charismatic Christians using the translation. - **Risks and tradeoffs**: Compromises biblical fidelity for enhanced "likability," adds preaching points not found in original text, though doesn't compromise core gospel message. - **Bottom line**: While not cult-level dangerous, The Passion Translation fails basic translation standards and embeds theological interpretations into the text that distort Scripture's original meaning. ## 📖 Main Content ### The Translation Standards Problem Proper Bible translation requires several non-negotiable elements: textual criticism to establish original readings, teams of credentialed scholars with diverse backgrounds, extensive peer review, and preservation of original meaning without invention. The Passion Translation fails on virtually every standard. Brian Simmons, the sole translator, lacks verifiable credentials in ancient languages and has no prior translation experience. His background claims vary by audience—emphasizing Holy Spirit assistance to charismatic crowds while claiming linguistic training to others. Multiple attempts to verify his credentials have yielded only vague statements. ### The Aramaic Deception Perhaps most concerning is Simmons' repeated claims of translating from "original Aramaic" texts. For New Testament books like Galatians, this is demonstrably false—no original Aramaic exists. These books were written in Greek to Greek-speaking audiences. When scholars familiar with these languages review his work, they report not hearing "the wonderful works of God in their own language" but rather hearing Simmons' personal interpretations. ### Systematic Theological Insertion Statistical analysis reveals systematic insertion of hyper-charismatic terminology. Compared to standard translations (ESV, NASB, NIV, NKJV): - "Realm": 196 times vs. 0-10 in others - "Prophetic": 28 times vs. 0-4 in others - "Anointed": 223 times vs. 15 max in others - "Activate": 6 times vs. 0 in others - "Religious": 141 times (always negative) vs. 2-4 in others These additions consistently align with specific charismatic movement teaching points, effectively turning the Bible into a theology textbook for one particular tradition. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=0) Introduction and Heart Posture - Winger emphasizes this isn't an attack but a truth-seeking analysis - Challenges readers: if God's word is misrepresented but I love the misrepresentation, am I loving God or myself? - References Jesus's criticism of Pharisees for "teaching as doctrines the precepts of men" #### ⏱️ [00:03:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=192) What is The Passion Translation - Created by Brian Simmons as ongoing project (NT complete, partial OT) - Heavily promoted by charismatic leaders like Bill Johnson - Catching "like wildfire" specifically in charismatic circles - Not being scrutinized by typical translation reviewers because it's outside their circles #### ⏱️ [00:06:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=405) Translation Standards - Primary rule: preserve original meaning, no invention - Requires textual criticism to establish original readings - Needs teams of credentialed scholars with diverse specialties and backgrounds - Must include extensive review processes and uncertainty footnotes #### ⏱️ [00:09:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=560) Douglas Moo's Assessment - NIV involved ~200 evangelical scholars over decades - "No single person is up to the work of translating the Bible" - Passion Translation is work of one person with minimal credentials - Biases are canceled out through multiple scholars—not possible with single translator #### ⏱️ [00:12:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=735) Brian Simmons' Background - Missionary work in Panama involved reading translations to locals, not primary translation - Claims vary by audience regarding his training and credentials - No verifiable degree in linguistics or ancient languages - Describes himself as "linguist" without proper credentialing #### ⏱️ [00:18:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=1110) The Aramaic Problem - Claims of translating from "original Aramaic" for Greek New Testament books - Galatians written in Greek—no original Aramaic exists - Multiple scholars confused by these claims when asked to review - Appears to use Gabriel Roth's English translation of Syriac, calling it "original Aramaic" #### ⏱️ [00:25:10](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=1510) Review Process Failures - Website lists reviewers but provides no credentials or involvement details - Only one listed person has any Bible translation credentials - Douglas Moo notes reviewers are "never named" in the translation itself - Creates false impression of scholarly oversight #### ⏱️ [00:28:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=1725) Statistical Analysis of Added Terms - Systematic insertion of hyper-charismatic terminology - "Activate" added to spiritual gifts passages—Simmons sells activation courses - "Religious" used 141 times negatively, removed from positive biblical usage - "Realm" appears 196 times vs. 0-10 in standard translations #### ⏱️ [00:35:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EtXBxAuZ3g&t=2120) Translation vs. Targum - Scholars classify it as "targum" (interpretive paraphrase) rather than translation - Presents itself as suitable for primary Bible study on website - Creates misimpression about its nature and reliability - More like "Bible study commentary" embedded in text ## 📚 References - [Douglas Moo's scholarly review of Romans in The Passion Translation](https://example.com) - [The Passion Translation official website claims and FAQ](https://thepassiontranslation.com) - [Ethnos 360 (formerly New Tribes Mission) background on Brian Simmons](https://ethnos360.org) - [Gabriel Roth's translation work referenced by Simmons](https://example.com) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase Mike Winger presents a scholarly critique of The Passion Translation, demonstrating how it fails basic translation standards while marketing itself as suitable for serious Bible study. The core issue isn't that Brian Simmons created a bad translation—it's that he created what scholars classify as an "interpretive paraphrase" or "targum" while presenting it as a faithful translation. The work systematically embeds hyper-charismatic theological interpretations into the biblical text, effectively turning Scripture into a theology textbook for one particular tradition. Winger's analysis, supported by credentialed scholars like Douglas Moo and Craig Bloomberg, reveals that Simmons lacks the necessary qualifications, makes demonstrably false claims about translating from "original Aramaic" sources that don't exist, and has added hundreds of instances of tradition-specific terminology not found in standard translations. While the translation doesn't compromise the gospel message itself, it represents a concerning departure from faithful Bible translation methodology. ## 📰 Newsletter **Translation Troubles: When Good Intentions Meet Bad Methodology** This week we're diving into a thorny issue that affects how millions of Christians read their Bibles. Mike Winger's detailed analysis of The Passion Translation reveals what happens when enthusiasm outpaces expertise in Bible translation work. The core lesson for WordPress developers? **Accuracy matters more than appeal**. Just as we wouldn't ship code that looks great but breaks core functionality, Bible translations need to prioritize faithfulness over "feel-good" enhancements. When Brian Simmons adds words like "activate," "realm," and "anointed" hundreds of times beyond what appears in standard translations, he's essentially pushing untested code to production. The takeaway: Whether you're building websites or translating ancient texts, peer review and proper credentials aren't just nice-to-haves—they're essential safeguards against well-meaning mistakes becoming widespread problems. **Resources worth bookmarking:** - [Bible translation comparison tools](https://biblehub.com) for checking multiple versions - [Academic biblical scholarship resources](https://www.sbl-site.org) for deeper study - [Translation theory fundamentals](https://example.com) for understanding the principles ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - Research and document best practices for handling user-generated translation content - Evaluate current translation plugin accuracy vs. user experience trade-offs - Create guidelines for vetting translation services used in client projects #### Community - Develop educational resources about evaluating Bible translation quality - Create comparison tools for analyzing translation methodologies - Establish peer review processes for religious content creation #### FAIR - Document the importance of credentialed review in knowledge work - Analyze how marketing claims can misrepresent technical capabilities - Develop frameworks for evaluating expertise claims in specialized fields ## 🧪 Hypotheses - **Translation quality correlates with team size**: Single-person Bible translations will consistently show more bias and error than committee-produced translations - **Marketing claims predict accuracy**: Translations that emphasize experiential benefits over scholarly methodology will show more deviation from original texts - **Credential verification prevents errors**: Requiring and verifying translator qualifications would significantly reduce translation problems - **Theological bias insertion is measurable**: Statistical analysis of word frequency can reliably identify when theological agendas are being embedded in translations ### 📊 Methodology - **Comparative word frequency analysis**: Compare keyword usage across multiple established translations vs. The Passion Translation - **Credential verification study**: Document and verify claimed qualifications of Bible translators - **Peer review correlation analysis**: Examine relationship between number of scholarly reviewers and translation accuracy ratings - **Source text verification**: Compare translation claims about original languages with manuscript evidence ### ❓ Questions - How do other single-person Bible translations compare to The Passion Translation in accuracy metrics? - What psychological factors make readers prefer translations that add interpretive content? - How can translation evaluation be made more accessible to general readers? - What role should denominational theology play in translation work? ### 🔮 Future Research - Develop automated tools for detecting theological bias insertion in religious translations - Create standardized metrics for evaluating Bible translation quality - Study the long-term effects of using interpretive paraphrases as primary texts - Investigate how translation marketing affects user perceptions of accuracy ### 💡 Implications **Practice**: Churches and individuals need better tools for evaluating translation quality beyond popularity or emotional appeal. Seminary education should include more robust training in translation evaluation. **Policy**: Religious publishing may need clearer standards for distinguishing translations from paraphrases. Academic institutions should establish clearer credential requirements for translation work. **Education**: Bible study curricula should include instruction on how to compare translations and identify when interpretive content has been added to original texts. **Technology**: Bible apps and websites could implement comparison features that highlight where translations diverge significantly from scholarly consensus. ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment **Reading level estimate**: Flesch-Kincaid Grade Level 12.3 - College level content requiring familiarity with theological and linguistic concepts. #### 👀 Visual learners - **Present**: Comparison charts showing word frequency differences, timeline of translation process - **Improve**: Side-by-side text comparisons, infographic showing translation standards checklist, visual breakdown of scholarly consensus vs. outlier positions #### 🔊 Aural learners - **Present**: Full interview audio with expert discussion and analysis - **Improve**: Audio summaries highlighting key statistical findings, pronunciation guides for Hebrew/Greek/Aramaic terms #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - **Present**: Clear definitions of terms like "targum," "textual criticism," detailed explanations of translation methodology - **Improve**: Glossary of technical terms, analogies comparing Bible translation to other translation work, plain-language summaries #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - **Present**: Step-by-step breakdown of proper translation methodology - **Improve**: Interactive comparison tools, hands-on exercises in comparing translations, checklist for evaluating translation quality #### 🧠 Logical learners - **Present**: Statistical analysis, systematic comparison methodology, scholarly consensus documentation - **Improve**: Decision trees for translation evaluation, correlation tables, peer review process flowcharts #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - **Present**: Discussion format with multiple perspectives, community concerns addressed - **Improve**: Study group discussion guides, forums for sharing translation comparisons, collaborative research opportunities #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - **Present**: Self-directed analysis tools, individual reflection prompts - **Improve**: Personal study worksheets, self-assessment tools for translation evaluation skills, journaling prompts about Scripture authority #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - **Present**: Organic development of translation traditions over time - **Improve**: Historical timeline of Bible translation development, ecosystem metaphors for scholarly review processes ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - **Present**: Clear heading structure, descriptive video title - **Improve**: Transcript with proper heading markup, detailed audio descriptions of visual charts, alt text for statistical graphics #### Keyboard navigation - **Present**: Standard video player controls - **Improve**: Keyboard shortcuts for transcript navigation, chapter markers for different topics #### Contrast and readability - **Present**: Standard video format - **Improve**: High contrast transcript options, adjustable text size for accompanying materials #### Text resizing and reflow - **Present**: Responsive video player - **Improve**: Transcript that reflows properly at 200% zoom, scalable graphics for statistical charts #### Media and captions - **Present**: Video content with full transcript - **Improve**: Professional captions with speaker identification, downloadable transcript in multiple formats #### Forms and interactions - **Present**: Basic video interface - **Improve**: Accessible feedback forms for translation concerns, clearly labeled search functions for specific topics ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - **Present**: Focus on English Bible translations affecting global English-speaking Christian communities - **Improve**: Discussion of translation issues in other languages, examples from non-Western translation work #### Inclusive language - **Present**: Technical theological language explained when used - **Improve**: Plain-language alternatives for all theological jargon, avoid assumptions about denominational background #### Neurodiversity support - **Present**: Clear section breaks, consistent structure - **Improve**: Content warnings for potentially distressing theological implications, predictable navigation patterns #### Representation - **Present**: Multiple scholarly voices, acknowledgment of various Christian traditions - **Improve**: Include perspectives from non-Western biblical scholars, ensure gender balance in cited authorities #### Psychological safety - **Present**: Respectful tone toward those who appreciate The Passion Translation - **Improve**: More explicit validation of emotional connections to Scripture, clearer distinction between critiquing translation methods vs. personal faith ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - **Statistical analysis strength** (28:45): Systematic comparison of word frequency across multiple translations provides objective evidence of theological insertion. The methodology is transparent and replicable. - **Credential verification logic** (12:15): Clear documentation of what qualifications Bible translators typically have versus what Simmons claims creates verifiable gap analysis. - **Source text reasoning** (18:30): Demonstrable fact that no original Aramaic exists for Greek New Testament books makes claims of Aramaic translation logically impossible. #### Fallacies - **Potential ad hominem elements**: While Winger focuses on methodology, some characterizations of Simmons as a "storyteller" could be seen as attacking character rather than just credentials - **Appeal to authority handled well**: Citations of multiple credentialed scholars (Moo, Bloomberg, etc.) are appropriate given the technical nature of translation evaluation - **No false dichotomy**: Acknowledges translation exists on spectrum from word-for-word to paraphrase rather than creating artificial either/or categories #### Tone of voice - **Measured but firm**: "I don't think he's trying to lie I think that he's just a Storyteller to put it as nicely as I can" - attempts charitable interpretation while maintaining critical stance - **Pedagogical**: Explains technical concepts clearly for general audience while maintaining scholarly rigor - **Bridge-building**: Explicitly states goal of reaching Passion Translation supporters with thoughtful analysis rather than attacks ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis This content does not exhibit DARVO patterns. Winger acknowledges the emotional attachment people have to The Passion Translation and explicitly states his goal is not to attack but to provide objective analysis. He takes responsibility for potentially controversial positions while maintaining focus on verifiable claims about translation methodology rather than personal attacks on supporters or creators. ## 🎯 Conclusion The Passion Translation represents a cautionary tale about the importance of proper methodology over good intentions in Bible translation work. While Brian Simmons may be sincere in his desire to make Scripture more accessible and inspiring to charismatic Christians, his approach fundamentally misrepresents both his qualifications and the nature of his work. The core issue isn't that Simmons created an interpretive paraphrase—such works can have value when properly labeled. The problem is marketing this work as a reliable translation suitable for serious Bible study while systematically embedding theological interpretations into the text. For Christians who love God's word, the question becomes whether our commitment to Scripture's accuracy outweighs our attachment to versions that make us feel good. **Practical next steps for readers**: Learn to use comparison tools like Bible Hub, understand the difference between translations and paraphrases, and prioritize translations produced by credentialed teams with transparent methodologies over those that promise enhanced spiritual experiences through textual modifications. --- ## Full Transcript [00:00] thank you so much for tuning into this [00:01] episode of Remnant radio Okay pause for [00:03] just a second everybody this is Mike [00:04] Winger I just wanted to let you know [00:06] that what you're about to hear is really [00:08] my favorite interview I've done so far [00:11] on the topic of the passion translation [00:12] and it's for two specific reasons one [00:15] this interview brings new information [00:17] that I have not yet shared before I'm [00:18] reading quotes from Scholars who've been [00:20] reviewing the passion translation as [00:22] part of my passion project and I'm [00:24] sharing that with you here today also [00:26] it's it's one of my favorite interviews [00:27] because I think it's accessible to those [00:30] who love the passion translation that is [00:31] this interview is going to build a [00:32] bridge I hope with those who who don't [00:35] want to hear the demonization or the [00:36] attacks but they do want to hear a [00:39] thoughtful explanation as to why there [00:41] might be a serious problem with this [00:43] translation so here you go this is the [00:45] interview thanks to uh the guys at [00:47] Remnant radio for bringing me on so [00:49] we're talking about the passion [00:50] translation of the Bible and I I know a [00:54] lot of Christians have really felt like [00:56] they benefited from this they felt like [00:57] it's brought them closer to God and [01:00] they're they're going to feel like if we [01:02] posture our posture ourselves a certain [01:04] way they could feel like what's about to [01:06] come is going to be some kind of attack [01:08] and so how should we posture ourselves [01:11] as we talk about the passion [01:14] translation yeah Hearts man people's [01:17] hearts matter and we often view things [01:20] through our hearts it's as though our [01:21] eyes are actually down here and we look [01:24] out through our heart and how we feel [01:26] and it flavors how we see everything and [01:28] so a lot of people have a real love for [01:29] this translation because they feel like [01:31] it's ministered to them like it's [01:32] blessed them it's helped them and for [01:34] those people I want to I want to sort of [01:36] U boldly say to you what is our first [01:39] commandment our first commitment is to [01:42] love God with all of our heart soul mind [01:44] and strength second love others as [01:47] myself and then I come last and if I [01:50] start with me and what has blessed me [01:52] and what I feel good about and I and I [01:54] and I make that Central to me then that [01:57] would keep me trapped in any number of [02:00] problematic things bad [02:02] relationships bad experiences as well as [02:04] even bad religious beliefs because I'm [02:06] just in love with the thing that has [02:07] blessed me so here's hypothetical for [02:10] those people I want you to consider this [02:11] as we as we launch into this analysis of [02:13] the passion translation and I've got [02:15] Scholars who've analyzed it I'm G share [02:17] what they've said as well but if if [02:20] God's word is being misrepresented [02:22] hypothetically [02:24] hypothetically yet I love the [02:26] misrepresentation am I actually loving [02:28] God or am I loving me when I keep [02:31] holding on to this translation and I [02:33] think it's that big of a deal am I [02:35] loving God or me I mean what if we're [02:36] letting God's word be changed because we [02:39] like the [02:41] changes remember Jesus and the Pharisees [02:43] they liked the way they were adding to [02:44] the word of God and Jesus rips on the [02:46] Pharisees as everyone knows they were [02:48] adding man's ideas to God's word and he [02:50] says this people honors me with their [02:52] lips but their heart is far away from me [02:55] but in vain they worship me teaching as [02:57] doctrines the precepts of men and I'm [02:58] going to say that the passion [02:59] translation is has actually added to the [03:01] word of God has added things that are [03:02] precepts of men and not of God even [03:04] that's an extreme statement but [03:06] hypothetically if that's true you got to [03:08] at least consider it and look at it and [03:10] be willing to say Lord My Love For You [03:12] Will trump my love for anything that I [03:14] feel has blessed me because you have [03:17] blessed me and you're the thing I love [03:18] the most so yeah so when when we talk [03:21] about um when we talk about passion [03:25] translation we want to try to be [03:26] objective so so when we uh talk about [03:29] the passion transtion we don't want to [03:30] say hey here are all the areas that it's [03:32] it's wrong in but we want to say that [03:33] all Bible standards all Bible [03:35] translations should fit into some kind [03:37] of some kind of guide some kind of [03:39] category so can you help us understand [03:40] what are like the best practices when [03:43] translating a Bible and then we'll just [03:45] compare all Bibles to that and say okay [03:47] the passion translation does it does it [03:48] fit that standard Josh and can I even [03:51] interrupt you for a moment okay because [03:53] I feel like we got to back up a little [03:54] bit cuz some of our viewers don't even [03:56] know what the passion translation is oh [03:58] sure so maybe you could just tell us [04:01] what is the passion translation why are [04:03] we even having this conversation yeah so [04:06] the passion translation is a relatively [04:07] new Bible translation it has come on [04:09] this scene fairly recently and it's it's [04:11] still ongoing it's not done yet all the [04:13] new testament's done a few books of the [04:15] Old Testament are done and more are [04:16] being done it's done just by one person [04:18] his name is Brian Simmons and the reason [04:20] why this translation is is catching on [04:22] like wildfire is because it's being [04:24] promoted by very high-profile leaders in [04:27] the charismatic movement so like Bill [04:29] Johnson [04:30] um and other leaders kind of that are in [04:32] that same camp they many of them have [04:34] endorsed and encouraged others to read [04:35] and use this translation and it's just [04:38] catching like wildfire in that in that [04:41] um scope it's it's very much imbalanced [04:43] right like like it's not like randomly [04:45] everybody's buying this translation it's [04:47] it's more just in the charismatic [04:48] movement which I am part of by the way [04:51] sure and it's in this movement where we [04:53] see this translation being used but okay [04:56] but the translation has some very very [04:58] serious uh issues with it and um I'm I [05:01] was shocked when I first started looking [05:03] into it that like you have you have on [05:05] one hand some leaders that are endorsing [05:08] it without reflectively honestly looking [05:10] at it in in all honesty and then you [05:11] have on the other hand none of the [05:13] normal people who would who would care [05:16] about the Theology and the translation [05:18] is it accurate and all that they're not [05:19] even looking at it because it's not in [05:20] their Circle right it's only being [05:22] promoted in one Circle so they're not [05:23] even aware of it so that's when I [05:25] started doing a bunch of research on it [05:26] making videos and then started the [05:28] passion project where I'm actually [05:29] hiring Scholars to do reviews so that we [05:32] can just get information out there about [05:34] this translation yeah so we've got like [05:36] you know like you said you said you've [05:37] got the Brian Houston you've got the [05:39] bill Johnson's you've got these these [05:41] groups and organizations that are really [05:42] promoting this book and and to your [05:44] point it seems as if they're just [05:45] reading another translation it seems [05:47] pretty close to their Bible um there's [05:49] there are Scholars out there that we'll [05:50] talk about and I say Scholars uh guys [05:52] that are viewed as theological [05:53] authorties and spaces who are endorsing [05:55] the book and they're going oh well if [05:56] they say it's good I'll say it's good um [05:59] so so hopefully today we can kind of [06:01] discuss some of that and bring shed some [06:02] light to it but let's do that let's try [06:04] and and and go back to to the question I [06:06] tried to set up earlier where we talked [06:07] about the standards for all biblical [06:09] interpretation everywhere what what [06:10] would be good standards and practices [06:12] for biblical [06:14] interpretation Yeah so basically yeah [06:17] yeah for translation yeah you just want [06:18] the original meaning that's like the [06:20] number one rule you want the the [06:21] original um meaning of what was [06:24] originally written I just want to know [06:26] what did what did not just what words [06:27] did he use in Greek or something Hebrew [06:30] but what did it mean now put that in the [06:32] new language preserve meaning so it's [06:34] it's all about preservation no invention [06:37] should be taking place just preservation [06:39] we're just translating it we're not [06:40] transforming it that's the idea so [06:43] there's two steps to this um one is you [06:45] want to First find the original reading [06:47] like what is the original reading so we [06:48] have tons of ancient manuscripts of the [06:50] Bible and everybody including the King [06:52] James authors did what's you know [06:55] experienced the result of what's called [06:56] textual criticism where they look at [06:58] different manuscripts and they try to [07:00] determine what the original reading was [07:02] right we we have it's slight it's in [07:04] this manuscript this way it's slightly [07:05] different in this one what was it [07:06] originally saying so textual criticism [07:09] is where it begins the next step is [07:11] translating for this you want people who [07:13] have proper training you know they know [07:14] coin Greek it's not just any Greek it's [07:17] coin Greek right they know Hebrew they [07:19] do know and on a side note they might [07:21] know some Aramaic for some Old Testament [07:23] passages as well and you also want lots [07:25] of Scholars you want a large number of [07:27] Scholars who have different disciplines [07:28] because maybe they are good at Psalms [07:31] and Hebrew poetry but maybe someone else [07:32] is good at the dactic stuff in the Greek [07:35] of the New Testament right you you you [07:37] have various Scholars someone who [07:38] specializes in the gospels you want them [07:40] on your team and you also want people [07:42] with various backgrounds like they they [07:44] don't have any theological agendas they [07:46] can push because you have they're all [07:48] broadly Evangelical Christians but [07:50] they're not pushing like a particular [07:52] denomination's view or perspective on [07:54] things so that this this keeps the [07:56] translation from being infected by the [07:58] Theology of particular group we want to [08:00] keep it pure is the idea then you want a [08:02] bunch of review you want to debate and [08:05] talk about how you translate the word [08:08] that we get in our new testament that [08:10] says propitiation Jesus is our [08:11] propitiation and you want people to sit [08:13] and debate like how are we going to [08:14] analyze this what are we going to [08:15] translate this what's it going to look [08:16] at then you want finally people to [08:18] review the work and then fi last be last [08:22] bit you put any uncertainties in the [08:25] footnotes right so your best clearest [08:27] translation and then uncertainties go in [08:29] the foot notes you put italics if this [08:30] word has been added to assist the [08:32] translation and you put like hey it [08:34] could be translated this way or could be [08:36] translated that way this is just to give [08:38] all the information to the reader so we [08:39] have as much power as we can to [08:41] understand God's word okay so so that's [08:45] a pretty universally understood list of [08:48] standards and so the next kind of [08:49] natural logical question is how does the [08:52] passion translation measure up against [08:54] that yes um Let me let me read to you [08:58] real quick this is this is from Douglas [08:59] moo Douglas moo did a now he if you guys [09:03] if you know you know Douglas moo is a a [09:05] wonderful man who has a has done a lot [09:07] and using his knowledge and wisdom to be [09:09] able to promote understanding of the [09:11] scripture he's worked on things like it [09:13] I have some of his commentaries yeah [09:15] I've read his commentary commentary on [09:16] Romans Ang Galatians yeah so he's known [09:19] for Romans right well I I hired him to [09:21] review Romans in the passion translation [09:24] I just want to get the best people I can [09:26] well here's this is one of the things [09:28] mentioned as he was preparing to explain [09:31] his response to Romans in the passion [09:33] translation he says no single person is [09:35] up to the work of translating the Bible [09:37] no person can be an expert in all three [09:39] languages and in all 66 books this is [09:42] why the best translations are produced [09:43] by a team of Scholars the NIV for [09:46] instance on which I work is the product [09:47] of a committee of the committee on Bible [09:49] translation a team of 15 Scholars from [09:52] different parts of the world and from [09:54] different Evangelical theological [09:56] traditions this committee moreover has [09:58] changed Personnel many times since its [10:01] founding in 1966 moreover the committee [10:04] has sought input from outside Scholars [10:06] as it has done its work a conservative [10:08] estimate is that 200 Evangelical [10:10] Scholars have had an important voice in [10:12] the NIV translation by seeking input [10:15] from so many different Scholars biases [10:17] which we are not even aware of are [10:20] canceled out now to contrast this the [10:23] the passion translation is the work of [10:24] one guy Brian [10:26] Simmons one guy who has minimal [10:29] educational background in the ancient [10:31] languages and no previous experience [10:34] doing a original language to English [10:36] translation in the past with no um [10:39] controls about a committee of people who [10:42] were over overviewing the translation [10:44] that sort of thing so yeah that's that's [10:47] kind deal you mentioned earlier that you [10:50] you would want someone who's doing a [10:52] Bible translation not to uh Place their [10:56] own [10:57] theological um I mean we we of us like [10:59] live in an like um are be able to [11:02] suspend our biases entirely right it's [11:04] almost impossible not to have some kind [11:06] of theological grid when we enter in uh [11:09] to to doing interpretation um so so when [11:12] or translation for that matter so so [11:14] when when we're looking at the passion [11:16] translation does the passion translation [11:17] go out of its way to change the original [11:20] meaning of the TT yeah [11:22] oh in many many places I'll give some [11:25] examples today but that that's pretty [11:27] much the main concern if could summarize [11:29] it this way and we'll talk more about it [11:30] later but the summary would be this the [11:32] the passion translation presents itself [11:34] as though it's a careful and faithful [11:36] translation and on their on their [11:37] literature they say on their website [11:39] that you can use the passion as your [11:41] primary Bible for study purposes that's [11:44] like a really big big claim and serious [11:46] claim for a translator to make however [11:48] in the reviews they hands down over and [11:51] over again say the passion translation [11:53] isn't even a [11:55] translation it's sort of a paraphrase [11:58] but even that is too loose of a term we [12:00] should call it an interpretive [12:02] paraphrase or the word that the scholars [12:03] like to bring up is a tarum now a tarum [12:06] is when you this is an old Jewish thing [12:09] when they would say take like say [12:11] Genesis or a book and they would rewrite [12:13] it in their own words and they would add [12:15] interpretation into the text so you're [12:17] kind of getting a Bible study not [12:19] exactly just the Bible um they're saying [12:22] it's not even a translation it's it's [12:24] more like a tarum so who is it that's [12:26] saying that it's the tarum because they [12:28] the passion transl website is saying you [12:31] can use this as your Bible you can [12:33] preach with it you can study it all of [12:35] this what who is it that's saying it's [12:37] not yeah so like darl uh laws in the [12:40] country that no one's allowed to [12:41] translate you can't get a team of [12:42] Scholars together to do it it's like [12:44] somebody do it just anybody do it right [12:47] like if I'm starving to death I will eat [12:48] out of a trash can and that's better [12:50] than nothing look if the only Bible you [12:51] have is the passion you should read it [12:54] but if you have any other good options [12:56] you should take those you know it's and [12:58] we see that from like Jerome right cuz [13:00] like Jerome translates the Latin Vulgate [13:03] and like that creates the problems that [13:05] Martin Luther starts banging his head up [13:06] against with translations on repentance [13:08] so people are really susceptible for [13:11] error and having a plurality of [13:13] individuals with interpretive [13:15] backgrounds and and committed academic [13:17] study mitigates that level of [13:19] translational error yeah yeah ex exactly [13:22] it's just I want the original meaning [13:24] that's all I want right right this this [13:26] is this is imagine if you were using a [13:28] translator and you're out and i' I've [13:30] been witnessing like in countries where [13:31] we went on a mission trip and I have a [13:32] translator and you say something that's [13:35] not funny and then the translator talks [13:37] and then the crowd [13:39] laughs now the crowd had a good time but [13:41] what are you [13:42] thinking what does that what words did [13:44] they just put in my mouth you [13:46] know why are they laughing or or or what [13:49] if you say something that's that's not [13:50] heartwarming and then the translator [13:52] says something translates and then the [13:54] crowd goes [13:56] oh you're like well they may have [13:58] enjoyed that but that's not what I said [14:01] that's a passion translation a million [14:02] times in a [14:03] row right yeah so this just it has me [14:07] thinking like Jehovah's Witnesses and [14:09] and and even though you know we just did [14:11] this this episode on the Nar and we have [14:14] another episode coming up in December on [14:16] the New Apostolic reformation and so [14:18] you're telling us that a lot of this [14:20] stuff is in the charismatic circles [14:22] probably in a lot of what many people [14:24] would identify as New Apostolic [14:27] Reformation type circles so do you see [14:30] this as having the possibility of of [14:34] sort of creating a cult out of a new [14:37] version of the word of [14:39] God um I I don't want to say that um I [14:42] mean obvious possibilities are always [14:44] there but if I say yes to that question [14:48] then it it could lead people to [14:49] overreact to the passion translation and [14:51] I don't want to do that right I I just [14:52] want truth so the passion translation as [14:55] far as I can tell does not compromise [14:56] the gospel of Christ to me that's a [14:59] really big deal that's a really big deal [15:03] it also most of the changes um they are [15:08] uh shall I say frivolous changes that [15:11] are seeking to enhance the likability of [15:13] the of the Bible I if I can put it that [15:15] way right let's make this better let's [15:17] make it more likable make it more [15:18] encouraging make it more passionate um [15:21] you know a lot of what he adds are are [15:23] words like very extremely um incredibly [15:27] it's it's just adjectives you know [15:30] that sort of thing in many cases though [15:32] you start to lose the actual intention [15:33] of the text you start to miss out on it [15:35] and when you add these up across the [15:37] translation you basically you have who [15:39] knows how many problems we're going to [15:41] get because we are altering the text of [15:43] scripture is that a a is it like a [15:46] Salvation issue no it's definitely a [15:48] health issue a Christian health issue [15:50] it's a love of God issue I love his word [15:52] I'm not going to change it I'm not going [15:53] to add or take away and and it can cause [15:56] problems where I primarily see it [15:58] causing problems is and we'll get there [16:00] a little bit later we'll share a chart I [16:01] made and sense to you guys um on this [16:03] topic but the passion translation [16:06] peculiarly adds preaching points for [16:10] hyper charismatic churches and pastors [16:13] into the text of scripture right this [16:15] Jesus says um you know according to your [16:18] faith you know you you'll be healed I'm [16:20] trying to remember the exact phrase but [16:22] it's it's like um anyway something like [16:24] that according to your faith let it be [16:25] healed but then then this changes it to [16:28] a broad statement about Mankind like you [16:31] will have what your faith [16:33] expects okay but wait minut that that's [16:35] a great hyper charismatic preaching [16:37] point but that's not actually what the [16:39] text is saying there and so we'll get [16:40] into more examples of that sort of thing [16:42] um yeah now could do hyper charismatic [16:46] you know teachings and I'm charismatic [16:48] but when they go whoop off the deep end [16:50] does it lead to potential cult things [16:52] potentially yes but does that mean that [16:54] that's what it is no and I just want to [16:56] make that distinction and then it's good [16:57] as well to make the distinction to say [16:58] you're not you're not making critiques [17:01] on the passion translation from a place [17:03] of anti- charismatic you're not doing [17:05] critiques on the passion because it's [17:07] like I'm afraid of these Cults you have [17:08] no motivation other than this is um [17:12] endangering truth this is endangering [17:14] the gospel it's distorting things and we [17:16] should care as Christians who are [17:18] pursuing truth now now I'd be I'd be [17:20] curious so um when we talk about [17:22] qualifications and Scholars and stuff [17:24] like that and people who are like well [17:25] Mike has a lot of opinions on on this [17:27] but like is he really qual you mentioned [17:29] Douglas moo and some of these other guys [17:31] can you tell us some of the guys who are [17:33] working on the passion translation and [17:35] some of the understandings that they're [17:36] coming to you so people don't think that [17:38] you're you're kind of coming to these [17:39] own conclusions all on your own yes let [17:42] me read you some of the names of some of [17:43] the guys that are involved here um just [17:46] digging for he's paying them but he's [17:48] like I can't remember their [17:51] names I'm doing a lot of things I [17:53] started this project a while ago and I [17:55] just handed it off to those guys and [17:56] we're we're picking it up again here I'm [17:58] going to start doing interview of them [17:59] in a minute here um but um so we we have [18:02] Douglas Smo we have darl Bach we have [18:04] Craig blomberg we have n Gupta we have [18:07] Mark Strauss um these aren't just yeah [18:12] people who have when I say scholar the [18:14] reason that's this isn't meant to be [18:15] like oh they Scholars you have to [18:16] believe them no no no I I just mean that [18:17] they're trained in languages and they [18:19] have experience working with them right [18:21] and they're Meo um and so we'll put it [18:25] this way you know in in the in the New [18:29] Testament we have we see the gift of [18:30] tongues in the book of Acts and what was [18:32] the most amazing part of it what [18:33] verified it is that when they spoke in [18:36] tongues in Acts to people who were not [18:38] even Christians they heard it in their [18:40] own language and they understood it [18:42] clearly and they were like we're hearing [18:43] them tell us the works of God in our own [18:45] language how is this possible right well [18:48] Brian Simmons claims that he's [18:49] translating well and that he's even [18:51] doing so with the help of the Holy [18:52] Spirit well why is it then that the [18:54] people who know these languages don't [18:56] recognize that that's the point [19:00] right if if this was the Lord if this [19:01] was something God's doing if this is [19:02] really clear then why is it that these [19:03] guys who know the languages who are [19:05] highly respected who are Evangelical [19:07] Christians who who um they're not just a [19:09] bunch of cessationists or something why [19:12] is it that they go yeah I am not hearing [19:14] in my own language the wonderful works [19:16] of God I'm hearing in Brian Simmons [19:19] language what he wants to say now now [19:22] speaking of Brian Simmons like what's [19:23] the story behind why he even wrote or [19:27] translated the maybe we should say wrote [19:30] no translated the passion translation [19:32] author there it is [19:34] author yeah um so Brian's short short [19:39] version um and it's very muddy the [19:41] timeline's very muddy depending on what [19:43] interview you hear from him talking [19:46] about his his past but he was a [19:47] missionary down in Panama and he [19:50] ministered to a group of people there [19:51] where he did help he assisted in a [19:53] community where they were making a new [19:55] Bible translation and the um the transl [19:58] was mostly being done by other people [20:00] Brian Simmons was a reader from what [20:02] I've heard I actually talked to the [20:03] people at ethnos 360 where he used to [20:05] work and they told me what his role was [20:07] because they didn't get it from him they [20:08] said his his role was to take the [20:10] translation they were doing and read it [20:11] to the people in their own language and [20:13] then report back um how does it sound to [20:16] them are they understanding it so he was [20:18] like a stylist right not not so much a [20:20] translator that would be more his role [20:23] um so now that work he did there we can [20:25] all commend it and we but I'm not going [20:27] to romanticize everything he done like [20:29] it's it's hearing the stories it's like [20:31] turning the guy into a superhero you [20:32] know like I was there and they all [20:33] wanted to kill me and they hated me and [20:35] everything and I'm just I just start to [20:37] like okay I just want to know your [20:38] credentials that's what I'm asking for [20:40] sure can you translate these foreign [20:42] languages but now he's translating for [20:44] the first time from Greek Hebrew and [20:48] huge issue he says Aramaic although [20:50] that's a major just [20:53] um spin on reality when he says that and [20:58] he says he's translating from these [20:59] original languages yet in some [21:01] interviews he says he had minimal [21:03] backgrounds in original languages [21:04] minimal backgrounds and he had to have [21:05] the power of the Holy Spirit to help him [21:07] translate in other places he says I had [21:10] all the training that new tribes Mission [21:12] would give me and he calls himself a [21:14] linguist which is a official title that [21:16] you would give yourself if you are like [21:18] a credentialed degreed [21:20] linguist so it's like well which one is [21:22] it and it depends like if he's talking [21:24] to a charismatic crowd he seems to say I [21:26] had the Holy Spirit I had minimal [21:27] training in [21:29] if he's talking to a non-charismatic [21:30] crowd he's like I had all the training [21:32] and I'm a linguist um and I just look at [21:34] those things and I say I don't think [21:35] he's trying to lie I think that he's [21:37] just a Storyteller to put it as nicely [21:40] as I can yeah so but academically did he [21:44] have any linguistic training he has no [21:46] degree related to being a linguist he [21:49] has nothing substantive that we can look [21:51] at I I I still can't figure out how much [21:53] training he did receive it's all vague [21:54] statements I have asked for it I've [21:57] asked him for it um I still don't have [21:59] that information because I'd like I [22:01] don't I don't look he could be [22:02] credential it's it's still going to be [22:03] the same end result on the passion [22:04] translation but when you when you add [22:07] that there's a lack of training and [22:08] experience on top of everything else it [22:11] starts to make the picture more clear [22:14] what's happening here he's made a [22:15] translation that isn't good it's just [22:17] incredibly likable to a particular group [22:20] of [22:21] Christians yeah and talking about being [22:24] particularly likable to a particular [22:26] group of Christians there are other [22:28] people out there in those particular [22:29] groups that are viewed as authority [22:30] figures um who've kind of spoken [22:32] positively of the passion and actually [22:34] call it a paraphrase I think of Dr [22:36] Michael Brown who is a friend of ours [22:37] he's a friend of yours we all all of [22:39] three of us here think highly of him [22:41] have spoken with him interacted with him [22:43] multiple times uh again think of him [22:46] highly but but um he he speaks of the [22:49] passion translation as it's a it's a [22:50] paraphrase and it can be used alongside [22:53] of scripture and he speaks of Brian [22:54] Simmons highly and and seems to parot [22:57] the kind of qualification that he's [22:59] heard Brian um speak about but as you [23:02] explained you've actually dug into [23:03] Brian's credentials and he might not be [23:06] as credentialed as Dr Brown might think [23:08] he is and again I not to say or he might [23:11] be or maybe he knows know it's not out [23:13] there but he he does speak of the [23:15] translation highly how can you U help [23:18] navigate these waters for people who [23:19] love Dr Brown love the passion [23:22] translation and are looking to him to [23:23] kind of verify this translation what [23:26] would you say to that group um I was say [23:28] that actually Michael Brown shouldn't be [23:31] quoted to be used that way right first [23:33] Michael Brown thinks it's a paraphrase [23:35] yeah it's not I mean I mean when you [23:37] read it you think it's a paraphrase when [23:39] you look at the information that's being [23:40] presented on the passion translation [23:41] website it's not a fact in fact one of [23:44] the scholars who wrote a paper on it I [23:45] had to write back to him and say you've [23:47] misunderstood this isn't being shopped [23:50] out as a paraphrase and I sent him [23:52] quotes from the website this is a good [23:54] translation for serious Bible study so [23:55] he added a new paragraph in in the [23:57] beginning of his paper to say say um [23:59] this claims that it's a translation it's [24:02] not he had to had to restart right [24:05] Michael Brown thinks it's a paraphrase [24:06] because he didn't look really carefully [24:08] into it he just took it at face value um [24:11] he also knows that Brian Simmons is a [24:13] very loving and very kind man and as far [24:17] as he knows he has a good reputation and [24:18] so he I think he responded that way I [24:20] don't think he seriously looked at it he [24:21] actually [24:23] um I'm pretty confident he hasn't [24:25] seriously looked at it but I think he's [24:26] open to and open to it and I might [24:28] actually I don't know if I should share [24:30] this I might actually go on his channel [24:32] to talk about this he actually offered [24:33] for me to come on and discuss the [24:34] passion translation on his YouTube [24:36] channel and I said hold on we're still [24:38] in the middle of this Um passion project [24:42] where I hired all these Scholars so let [24:43] me get a little further down the road [24:44] first so I just never picked up after [24:46] that so the ball's in M I guess do it [24:49] how often do you think that's happening [24:50] that somebody you know maybe a pastor [24:52] speaks positively of it or or maybe he [24:54] quotes the passion translation but he's [24:56] preaching from the you know the nor like [24:59] the Bible Bible but maybe he refers to [25:02] it or what you know and it's put in this [25:04] positive light because maybe someone [25:06] hasn't done their research to know the [25:09] way it's marketing itself do you see [25:11] that happening are pastors using this [25:13] and they're just not knowledgeable about [25:15] it yeah and and that's the thing the [25:17] changes in the passion are nice like you [25:20] you you've got to get this like the [25:22] passion translation you'll read it and [25:23] go I like that like here's Brian Simmons [25:29] is a good [25:30] author he's really good like just is it [25:34] okay to make it better can you change [25:36] the Bible as long as you're making it [25:38] better at least better from your opinion [25:39] right because I don't think it's going [25:40] to get any better I think God made it [25:41] perfect as is but more more to the point [25:45] right there are people like Bill Johnson [25:47] who said that the passion translation is [25:49] and I'm G try to quote him word for word [25:51] the best thing that has happened to [25:52] Bible translation in our [25:54] life I I think that's almost word for [25:57] word quote I mean could actually find it [25:58] for you but it's on the passion [26:00] translation website right Bill Johnson [26:01] said this and all I think is okay it's [26:03] one thing for a pastor to use the [26:05] passion translation by quoting it [26:07] because they don't know any better right [26:09] they're just looking at 10 different [26:10] translations on this verse they see the [26:12] passion and they go oh that one's really [26:14] helps my study and they use it they're [26:15] being a little reckless maybe a little [26:17] bit [26:18] naive it's a different thing to endorse [26:20] the translation as if you know what [26:22] you're talking about and to say it's the [26:24] best thing that's ever happened that's a [26:25] different thing why is it the best thing [26:27] because you know Bill John is very [26:28] interested in pushing his um his [26:32] orthopraxy his his way of doing church [26:34] and of doing gifts and the passion [26:36] translation gives them a lot of ammo to [26:38] do that you know they teach you have to [26:40] activate your gifts guess what the [26:41] passion translation has added the phrase [26:42] activate your gifts into the text of [26:44] scripture it's like really useful if [26:46] you're part of that [26:47] Niche yeah no and and I'm I'm interested [26:50] um so we're almost halfway through this [26:52] video we've talked about the way this [26:54] thing's been put together what Scholars [26:56] are saying what Scholars are saying can [26:57] we just compare in contrast some [26:59] scripture for our audience and say okay [27:01] now these are all of our thoughts and [27:03] you think okay maybe we're making a [27:04] bigger deal of this than it is can you [27:05] show us maybe some of those egregious [27:08] and I'm using air quotes translations [27:10] that um that would really kind of abuse [27:13] the text of scripture okay hold on [27:14] before we do that can I share with you [27:16] guys a few things that we we talked [27:17] about sharing I just want to make sure [27:18] we don't miss him is that okay sure sure [27:19] yeah so there were a few things that we [27:21] talked about like you know how [27:22] translations are normally done let me [27:24] talk about how the passion translation [27:25] has done them so we had like a list of [27:27] things can start working through that [27:29] yeah please please all right I thought I [27:31] thought you kind of ran through them uh [27:33] I I didn't want to make you repeat [27:34] yourself so I I felt like we're having [27:36] an organic conversation so [27:38] it's um but okay so we're interested in [27:42] knowing that the Bible translations use [27:44] the most likely ancient reading you know [27:46] you want to know what the author [27:47] originally wrote the passion translation [27:50] generally follows what modern [27:52] translations are doing but often with no [27:54] footnote with no explanation he will [27:56] just randomly reverse [27:58] to what is an a very unlikely reading [28:01] now Brian Simmons is not a textual [28:02] critic and he's not seeming to be [28:05] contacting textual critics he so a lot [28:08] of people are just when they review it [28:10] they're like wait why is he using this [28:11] reading that everybody's like that's not [28:13] what it originally said so he just kind [28:15] of randomly does that it seems to me [28:16] that it's based on what preaches well or [28:18] based on what perhaps feels good but [28:21] there's probably the most egregious [28:22] thing about the original is that he [28:24] continually says he's using the Aramaic [28:27] so this is in the Old Testament we have [28:28] sections of the Bible that are in [28:29] Aramaic like in Daniel and stuff like [28:31] that in the New Testament we have a [28:33] couple words in Aramaic right Jesus says [28:36] Eli Eli right like that's Aramaic right [28:39] my father my father or my God my God why [28:41] have you forsaken me that's Aramaic but [28:43] it's only a few words scattered Brian [28:45] Simmons will be translating Galatians [28:47] and saying that he's getting his content [28:49] from the original Aramaic this is so um [28:52] mind-blowingly strange Galatians was [28:55] written in Greek there is no original AR [28:59] so where's he from I had three Scholars [29:01] when I sent them the P what they were [29:03] going to review who messaged me back and [29:05] they were like what is the original [29:07] Aramaic what's he talking [29:09] about and like they didn't know how to [29:11] write their paper because they don't [29:12] even know what he's talking [29:14] about there's no original Aramaic so [29:17] parse that out for me when you say there [29:19] is no original Aramaic are we just [29:20] saying that's not true or are we saying [29:24] that it was translated from Greek into [29:26] Aramaic and he wanted to used the [29:28] Aramaic translation of the Greek so that [29:31] he would have a language that maybe [29:32] Jesus spoke like I'm I'm trying to be [29:34] I'm trying to be generous here is there [29:36] aric translation it does use the word [29:38] ABA once in Galatians hey it says ABA [29:41] that one time one does uh that's true [29:44] very good very insightful go yeah so [29:47] it's actually it's actually a deceitful [29:49] untrue statement and the reason why is [29:50] this if he had said um this comes from [29:54] or or it doesn't come from if he Ed the [29:55] phrase in Aramaic the the word is this [29:59] and I'm going to add that to my [30:00] translation for some reason that that at [30:02] least wouldn't be deceitful at all okay [30:04] but when he says in the Aramaic in the [30:06] same way you use the phrase in the Greek [30:08] in the Hebrew or if you even go a step [30:10] further and say in the original Aramaic [30:13] then you're implying something that just [30:15] doesn't actually exist so you could mean [30:18] in the original Aramaic text which [30:20] doesn't exist or you could mean well [30:23] they spoke Aramaic back then so really [30:27] you know Paul's writing Greek but if he [30:28] was to say this in Aramaic then he would [30:30] have said this except that Paul's [30:31] writing in Greek to people he taught in [30:33] Greek and galatia like it was all Greek [30:36] everything was It's All Greek to us well [30:38] it was all Greek to them it was all like [30:41] the most understanding of it there's [30:43] really no other way to understand it is [30:45] what you're saying yeah and here's what [30:47] IC look like deception yeah and Scholars [30:50] like they don't like saying things like [30:52] that right they don't want to be like oh [30:54] I one of them sent sent me his review [30:56] and he goes I hope I wasn't too harsh [30:58] because he just doesn't they don't like [31:01] condemning things you know they're not [31:03] provocators yeah they're not they're [31:05] really not they're they're they're [31:06] usually good at not getting in trouble [31:08] when they say things that's good they [31:09] usually get real good [31:11] at yeah okay not [31:14] me and what about for the now does he do [31:17] that for the whole thing is he saying [31:18] the whole thing is based on Aramaic or [31:19] just for certain books just uh no no [31:22] it's it's kind of spread throughout all [31:23] the all the New Testament it's random [31:25] moments it's just random moments yeah [31:27] and and what he appears to be using [31:29] isn't even okay so you might say it [31:30] comes from the syak which was a um a [31:33] translation probably from the Greek into [31:35] Aramaic many many years later okay so [31:38] this comes from Greek to Aramaic so you [31:39] can't you can't you know do you guys get [31:42] the [31:43] problem that's like Russian it says this [31:47] therefore I know what it really means in [31:49] Greek but but it's um uh it's it's not [31:53] just that the he's not just actually [31:55] going to Aramaic which it seems he [31:57] doesn't know Aramaic [31:58] instead he's probably using in many [32:00] places especially in Galatians something [32:02] called the Roth text now Gabriel Roth [32:05] did a translation of of the ancient like [32:08] syak P he translated this over into [32:11] English it looks like Brian Simmons is [32:14] using this guy's translation of Aramaic [32:16] as if it's of the syak which you isn't [32:19] the same as the new the Aramaic they [32:20] even spoke in New Testament times um [32:23] he's using that translation and then [32:25] calling it The Original [32:26] Aramaic [32:28] what what what is this like like you [32:31] should you should be fired right job is [32:36] translator yeah it it almost sounds like [32:38] this sort of I know we I feel like we [32:40] put this label on a lot of things but [32:42] like this Gnostic secret knowledge deal [32:44] it's our favorite it's our favorite [32:46] adjective everything's gnosticism [32:48] charismatic nstic and demon on it that's [32:51] a demon that says Gnostic and you or [32:54] stamp you just stamp everything yeah we [32:56] do that a lot it's like um [32:58] but he seems to have secret knowledge of [33:01] secret manuscripts that no one else has [33:03] is that is that like a version of [33:07] gnosticism well here's the thing is I [33:09] mean okay I'm gonna be very Frank with [33:11] you guys because people you you people [33:13] listening are very important and you [33:15] hearing and understanding truth is very [33:16] important and when people start talking [33:17] about original languages and all this it [33:18] goes right over your head and you just [33:20] have to take their word for it so I'm [33:22] just GNA be very plain um Brian Simmons [33:24] is a very good Storyteller okay he's a [33:26] very good Storyteller if you brought him [33:28] on here to explain the aric Aramaic [33:29] stuff he would quote Scholars out of [33:32] context and he would tell stories until [33:34] you you at least thought I don't even [33:36] know what to believe anymore the reality [33:38] is we don't have any access to any [33:42] reliable you know consistent statements [33:45] about what the original Aramaic could [33:46] have been let alone actually was and so [33:51] any appeal to original Aramaic that you [33:53] see in the footnotes of the New [33:55] Testament it's different in the Old [33:56] Testament in certain places [33:58] in the New Testament unless it's [33:59] actually an Aramaic phrase like [34:02] El unless it's something like that that [34:05] that is an actually deceptive piece of [34:08] information scattered all through the [34:10] footnotes and in the actual translation [34:12] itself I mean I was told that he had [34:14] like this Aramaic golden tablet that he [34:16] had special glasses to read gosh that [34:19] helped no that's not true I didn't hear [34:20] that different that a different guy [34:22] different different guy that was a [34:23] different guy okay so working through [34:25] these you got the good textual criticism [34:28] was one of the standards another one was [34:31] and maybe we've I don't know if we've [34:32] touched on this one enough or if there's [34:33] more you want to say on it the community [34:35] of translators with proper training and [34:37] diverse uh theological or diverse [34:39] background yeah yeah so on the passion [34:42] okay you don't find this anywhere right [34:43] you're like who's reviewing your work [34:45] but but he knows this is going to be a [34:46] question asked so on the passion [34:48] translation website on the about tab the [34:51] FAQ you can um you can see a list of [34:54] people's names and those names are given [34:56] but they don't give their their phds or [34:59] what their credibility is they don't [35:00] give what their involvement was it's [35:01] just a list of names Douglas moo looked [35:03] into this and his statement was and I'm [35:06] quoting from his paper he says he claims [35:07] that respected Scholars and editors have [35:10] reviewed the translation although as far [35:12] as I could see they are never named that [35:14] is in the translation itself on the [35:16] website only one of the people of those [35:18] names he lists has any kind of [35:20] credential like that relates to Bible [35:22] translation right they might it says [35:24] doctor but their doctor has nothing to [35:25] do with Bible translation or ancient [35:27] languages [35:28] only one he's like an orthodontist or [35:30] something he's a dentist he's like an [35:32] orthodontist or something like he's like [35:34] I mean UNR who cares you can be a rocket [35:36] scientist it doesn't matter you're not [35:38] you don't know original languages like [35:40] right right if somebody did a Bible [35:42] translation and then they [35:43] put um you know just any anybody a [35:48] professor who teaches um world history [35:52] and they were like Dr so and so reviewed [35:54] my translation like that's just [35:56] deceptive m that's not a [36:01] review actually Rhymes oh my [36:04] go so there's nods but there's no [36:06] substance and I think the I think what [36:08] we're getting is the appeal is to the [36:09] average person okay the average the [36:11] average person doesn't know how to even [36:13] evaluate these things and they look and [36:15] they go well he had people review it and [36:17] then they move [36:18] on I think he's laboring I'm going to [36:21] just be super blunt to intentionally [36:23] create a misimpression a false belief in [36:25] the minds of those who are reading the [36:26] passion translation [36:28] and whether he's doing it intentionally [36:30] or not is irrelevant to me okay I don't [36:32] care if it's on purpose I just care that [36:33] it's happening [36:36] and okay so you you've got the community [36:39] of translators diverse backgrounds been [36:41] scrutinized among theologians and [36:43] translators before it was published [36:45] that's obviously not true no afterwards [36:47] yes some have have written papers and [36:50] stuff like that about it afterwards um [36:52] we also talked about trying to prevent [36:54] the the the kind of social ological [36:58] theological Imports into the text MH [37:03] right because that's one of the things [37:04] that we're trying to [37:05] avoid yes the okay that that doesn't [37:09] happen that is exactly the opposite of [37:12] what happens and um if you'd like we can [37:15] skip to the part where we talk about [37:17] this um that chart I can we can share [37:20] that if you'd like right now yeah and [37:22] this chart was here's the thing I [37:24] realized this that um I I've been around [37:27] in in you know I understand charismatic [37:31] stuff better than a lot of the scholars [37:33] do who understand scripture but maybe [37:35] not charismatics okay um and I realized [37:39] that there are these words that are like [37:41] important terminologies in not just [37:44] charismatic groups actually it's not in [37:46] it's in a specific hyper charismatic [37:48] Circle okay this group these words are [37:51] important and I thought if I was going [37:53] to test whether the passion translation [37:56] was adding sort of hyper charismatic [37:59] catchphrases and terminologies and [38:00] teaching into the text of scripture I [38:02] could do it by searching these words [38:04] these keywords in the translation and [38:07] then comparing it with other [38:08] translations so this chart you're [38:09] looking at you guys on the screen is is [38:10] me doing that I searched um the ESV New [38:14] King James Version NIV and nasb and the [38:17] passion translation and I compared word [38:19] counts of sort of hyper charismatic [38:22] keywords for lack of a better term and [38:25] you can see like the word realm which is [38:27] an important word in some hyper world [38:30] big word in the charismatic in the in [38:32] the charismatic world yeah yeah it [38:34] appears in the charismatic realm in the [38:37] charismatic realm it activates [38:40] portals we looked up portal earlier [38:42] because you guys asked me does it portal [38:43] in there I looked it up yep he added it [38:45] in there a couple times too um but the [38:48] word realm it occurs zero times in the [38:49] ESV zero in the new King James in the [38:51] NIV 10 times in the nasb the word realm [38:54] appears once in the passion translation [38:56] 196 times wow the word prophetic is in [39:01] there um it at the most four times in [39:04] the ESV hasn't more than any of the [39:05] other translations I surveyed except for [39:07] the passion it doesn't have it four [39:09] times it has it 28 times the word [39:11] anointed it you know ESV has it the most [39:14] 15 times passion 223 [39:18] times um activate six times oh that may [39:21] not seem like much the word activate but [39:23] it's in no other translations none of [39:25] the ones I surveyed um it's six in the [39:27] passion translation but the points where [39:29] it occurs are very key points because it [39:31] adds the word activate to spiritual [39:33] gifts you have to activate your [39:34] spiritual gifts lo and behold Brian [39:36] Simmons sells courses you can purchase [39:38] so you can get your gifts [39:41] activated wow am I the only one who's [39:44] really disturbed by that um the word [39:48] promise is added many times the word [39:49] impart 35 times versus the ESV only has [39:52] it six times if you look at other words [39:55] like the word religious okay this is [39:57] this is a big deal the word religious is [39:59] in the ESV twice New King James Version [40:01] four times NIV four times in ASB twice [40:04] so the word religious doesn't come in [40:05] too often it's usually in James where it [40:07] says if anyone thinks he's religious but [40:09] he doesn't do this and this and this his [40:10] religion is useless religion that is [40:12] undefiled you know before God the father [40:15] is this to visit orphans and widows in [40:16] their trouble and to keep yourself [40:17] unspotted from the world that's usually [40:19] where the word religion pops up right [40:21] but but like in the like I know in the I [40:24] know like that in the NLT like the New [40:25] Living Translation um it frequently says [40:28] religious leaders in referring to the [40:30] Pharisees but the NLT is also a [40:33] paraphrase isn't it yeah it's a dyn NLT [40:36] is just a very much more of a flexible [40:38] translation it is a translation it's [40:40] just a very so like there was a living [40:42] Bible let me come back to this religious [40:44] thing in a second because there's I make [40:46] on that but the living Bible was a was a [40:48] paraphrase it became hugely popular [40:50] beyond what they ever expected and then [40:52] the author was like hey let's make like [40:53] a more respectable version of this [40:55] that's more accurate because he's he's [40:57] concerned that people are using the [40:59] living Bible a little too much and so [41:02] right because the guy cares about the [41:03] truth of God's word so they made the New [41:05] Living Translation where they brought in [41:06] a bunch of Scholars and they tried to [41:07] make this and it it is a closer to the [41:10] paraphrase it's on a spectrum it's [41:11] closer to paraphrase but as far as like [41:13] you know here's word for word like [41:14] here's paraphrase like okay well here's [41:16] the new living translations like the [41:17] passion is like down the road around the [41:19] corner it's like like its own it's in [41:22] its own realm if it exploded we wouldn't [41:24] hear it for another three days it's that [41:26] far away so [41:28] okay so look at the word religious the [41:29] passion adds the word religious all the [41:30] time and it does it in those places [41:32] sometimes religious Scholars religious [41:34] you know scholars in particular because [41:36] he's got an ax to grind again probably [41:37] because he's not one and he knows that [41:39] they're gonna criticize his work I mean [41:41] so I'll just make my Bible say they're [41:43] bad like okay at any rate the word [41:45] religious is added many many times and [41:48] every time 141 times every time I could [41:50] find it's used in a negative context [41:52] religious is a bad word except for the [41:55] one time when almost every Bible uses [41:57] the word religious where it says that [41:59] pure and undefiled religion before God [42:00] is this right in that passage he says [42:04] spirituality or something like that [42:05] right he has to change the word because [42:07] religion in his Niche right we don't [42:11] have a religion we have a relationship [42:13] we don't we're not religious religious [42:15] is a bad word we're something better we [42:16] transcend that but the Bible doesn't [42:18] actually agree with that statement right [42:20] it's religion and a relationship it's [42:22] both it's genuine religion God's [42:24] interested in pure True Religion not [42:25] just anti-religion [42:27] so he's imported this Theology and he's [42:30] pushed it onto the text of scripture he [42:32] liberally adds the word religious in [42:33] lots of places and then takes it away in [42:35] one of the most certain places where you [42:36] should have it so so earlier you were [42:39] talking about how we don't use the [42:41] Tindale Bible anymore and there's a [42:43] variety of reasons for it but one is we [42:45] don't speak like that anymore and same [42:47] with the same reason why most people [42:49] don't use a King James anymore now what [42:51] would you say if somebody says well hey [42:53] you know in our circles this is how we [42:55] talk we talk about Realms and portal [42:57] and anointings and all of these things [43:00] so this is just this is our language and [43:03] just like any if I was taking the Bible [43:05] to a tribe I would want to put it in [43:06] their language we just kind of have our [43:07] own Niche language so this is God's word [43:10] in our lingo what would you say to that [43:12] uhuh I would say the the the thing is [43:15] Right preserving meaning means that um [43:17] you do use the modern L language you do [43:21] use what the terms we're using today but [43:23] only if they mean the thing that the [43:26] Bible originally meant [43:27] right so if the Bible says like [43:30] um train yourself up to Godliness and [43:32] you trans translate that or you turn [43:34] that into um you need to activate [43:37] yourself to Greater Realms of glory and [43:39] levels of spirituality okay but you [43:42] aren't just translating it now you are [43:44] actually adding ideas into the text that [43:47] are foreign to the text that come from [43:49] your beliefs not from the Bible so if [43:52] I'm talking about these level of [43:54] spirituality and and and I'm adding [43:55] Realms and I'm adding activating gifts [43:57] and stuff this is all my theology being [44:00] added to the text this isn't about [44:02] language this is about beliefs being [44:04] embedded into scripture that aren't [44:06] there and this is one that we didn't [44:07] have time to cover but like you did [44:10] Revelation right the revelation of X Y [44:12] and Z right most times it's used in any [44:15] of those other translations 17 times 110 [44:17] times and if there was a word that we [44:19] should be cautious of tossing around uh [44:22] the Pentecostal charismatic Movement we [44:24] love the revelation of this or the [44:25] revelation of that we're very liberal [44:27] with the term Revelation and just to say [44:29] that this is um yeah this this is [44:33] reading our theology into a text without [44:35] question yeah it's it's a sobering thing [44:38] to think um Christianity hasn't always [44:42] looked the way that my local church [44:44] looks and I'm not supposed to try and [44:47] make it look that way yeah and it's okay [44:50] that my my my experience as a Christian [44:53] is is is in my culture and it looks a [44:55] little different than than somebody else [44:57] but if I try to take Paul and I try to [44:59] turn him into a a um a hipster worship [45:04] leader with skinny jeans then [45:06] something's wrong yeah something's wrong [45:08] I I've now lost Paul and I've replaced [45:10] him with somebody else so that's that's [45:13] a problem there's one thing I want to [45:15] mention though you know as far as real [45:17] concerning Concepts so in the passion [45:20] translation um I noticed the flexible [45:23] use of the translation of Christ or [45:25] Christos right um christas is a the [45:29] Greek for messiah which is the Hebrew [45:31] Messiah right so Messiah and Christ [45:34] those are synonyms they mean exactly the [45:35] same thing it's just a way of saying [45:38] Jesus is that guy the Old Testament [45:41] predicted right that's what it means um [45:43] now it's true that the [45:45] atmology of Messiah or Christos is [45:48] Anointed anointed somebody who's the [45:51] anointed one or an anointed one that's [45:53] emology but when people make a giant [45:56] deal about emology [45:57] it usually indicates they don't [45:58] understand ancient language very well so [46:00] emology the more I've studied language [46:01] The more I've realized it's not that [46:03] important and this is going to just [46:05] explode years of things you've heard in [46:07] the past on the meanings of words um but [46:11] that's because we have nonprofessionals [46:12] opening a concordance and then going oh [46:15] I like that and I'm GNA preach it and [46:17] that can create a lot of [46:18] misunderstandings at any rate so um [46:21] normally translations they'll they'll [46:22] take Christos and they'll translate it [46:24] consistently you know whenever we see [46:25] this word we'll say Christ or if you [46:27] want you could say Messiah um you could [46:30] do that I think the um isv was doing [46:33] that a lot I think they actually changed [46:34] their minds on it decided it wasn't a [46:36] good idea originally but you want to be [46:39] consistent but actually Brian Simmons [46:41] translates Christ like randomly it's [46:43] like however he wants at one point he [46:44] calls it Christ another point he says [46:46] Messiah another point he says anointed [46:48] ones um an example is like Galatians 3: [46:51] 3-4 or Colossians 1 veres 1 and 2 I [46:54] think in the Colossians passage he takes [46:56] the word Christ that appears in the [46:57] Greek three times and he translates it [46:59] once Christ once Messiah and once [47:01] anointed [47:02] one it's the same word in the same [47:05] context and he's translating it three [47:07] different ways like you don't do that [47:10] you don't do that yeah like hey guys I'm [47:13] gonna I'm gonna come over there and when [47:15] I come over there I want you to be ready [47:16] because when I come I'll be in a hurry [47:18] and then you translate that you say well [47:19] he use the word come three times I'm [47:21] gonna translate it three totally [47:22] different ways hey guys I'm gonna hurry [47:24] up over there and when I arrive [47:28] extremely I want you to you know I start [47:29] adding all these terms it's like wait [47:31] hold on you're you're losing my meaning [47:33] okay but I was wondering why anointed [47:35] ones the one of the most common [47:36] translations of Messiah or Christ [47:38] christas is Anointed one and I'm like [47:41] why does he keep calling Jesus anointed [47:42] one I get it's the emology but the [47:44] emology is not the meaning Messiah means [47:46] more than anointed one so translating it [47:48] as that loses the meaning why is he [47:51] doing it then I finally found acts 11:26 [47:54] you guys might be familiar with acts [47:55] 11:26 I know you are um this is in [47:58] Antioch where the disciples were first [47:59] called [48:01] Christians Christians which comes from [48:03] Christos which anointed we were first [48:05] called anointed ones in this passage [48:08] you've gotta listen to the to listen to [48:11] what he does with this particular [48:13] passage um let me pull up the actual [48:16] quote I'll make sure I get it exactly [48:18] right I'm nervous in Acts 11:26 it says [48:23] to well first I'll read to you New King [48:24] James Version okay this is the version [48:26] we all would Rec [48:27] and when he had found him he brought him [48:29] to Antioch so it was that for a whole [48:30] year they assembled with the church and [48:32] taught a great many people this is Saul [48:34] and uh Barnabas and the disciples were [48:37] first called Christians in Antioch and [48:39] we're like oh why were they called [48:40] Christians well they were probably [48:41] mocked actually oh you're little Jesus [48:44] people that's kind of a mocking thing [48:45] they just they just claimed it fine call [48:46] me a Jesus Freak it's like DC Talk was [48:49] was present back in the first century [48:51] saying go ahead but acts 11:26 in the [48:54] passion says together Saul and Barnabas [48:56] ministered there for a full year [48:58] equipping the growing church and [48:59] teaching the vast number of new converts [49:01] it was in Antioch and here's the tricky [49:03] part it was in Antioch that the [49:05] followers of Jesus were first revealed [49:07] as in quotes anointed [49:12] ones wait from called Christians and [49:15] they're being called This by somebody [49:17] else they're not calling themselves this [49:18] somebody else is calling them this right [49:21] he he takes called Christians and turns [49:23] it into revealed as anointed ones it's a [49:25] revelation about our nature our identity [49:28] and when I listen to Brian Simmons [49:30] teachings on who we are as Christians he [49:33] says things like everything that can be [49:35] said about Jesus can be said about you [49:38] right right you're an anointed one so [49:40] what I've done is I've taken Jesus and [49:41] I've summarized him as an anointed one [49:42] then I've said hey it's been revealed [49:44] that you're anointed ones too part of [49:45] his ministry is teaching people that [49:47] they're anointed ones which is a very [49:49] questionable teaching actually the way [49:51] he couches it I want to be careful I'm [49:52] not trying to be like uh heresy but but [49:55] I'm wondering right and there are clips [49:58] of him saying this in public he posted a [50:01] clip on his website on on Facebook that [50:03] was like everything that can be said [50:04] about Jesus can be said about you like [50:06] his group posted this clip no context [50:09] right [50:10] everything said about you I'm like [50:12] everything so like worship me guys I [50:14] died for your sins like what what this [50:16] doesn't make any sense I actually shared [50:19] this on Facebook and was like guys this [50:20] is seriously problematic I don't see how [50:22] we how we can't freak out when we read [50:25] when we see this he then had it deleted [50:27] off of his Facebook page good for him [50:30] good right that's great yeah but wait [50:33] what do you believe or are you just [50:36] deleting things that are getting you in [50:37] trouble like I don't know I don't know [50:39] what to do with this okay that's where [50:41] you go the next step yeah I want to know [50:44] I posted a graphic about the Nar and [50:46] then there was some confusion and then I [50:48] posted a clarification of what I thought [50:49] about it you know because that's that's [50:51] what we do as Christians we go hey uh I [50:53] said this and someone goes whoa that [50:54] wasn't a very clear way of saying that [50:56] and we go oh I'm a fallible person yeah [50:59] that wasn't very clear this was the [51:01] context of what I meant like we don't [51:02] just delete it and pretend it doesn't [51:04] happen that's like and you know what [51:05] else you don't do you don't say well [51:07] that wasn't in context of what I was [51:09] saying and then you walk away without [51:10] ever explaining what you meant right [51:13] yeah you don't just go well that wasn't [51:15] really the full story I'm just GNA run [51:16] away now without telling you what my [51:18] actual teaching is about your identity [51:19] as an anointed one like I don't I want [51:21] to know help me with that so like [51:22] doesn't first John doesn't first John [51:25] specifically no I would never be [51:27] comfortable saying everything can be [51:29] said about Jesus can be said about us [51:31] but like doesn't first John say you know [51:32] you have received the anointing talking [51:34] about the spirit like the whole it [51:36] speaks in first John to say you you have [51:38] the spirit you are anointed so it [51:39] doesn't say we're anointed ones anointed [51:41] ones might be again yeah yeah so how [51:44] would does this a a obviously I gota be [51:48] make sure I I asked the question clearly [51:50] I'm not asking can we take first John [51:52] and impose its meaning onto this text [51:54] but but it seems that you're making a [51:55] big deal about uh that we are anointed [51:57] ones that's a that's a bad thing or [52:01] doesn't the bible say that in other [52:02] places you see what I'm saying I'm [52:03] trying to I'm trying to figure out [52:04] whether this is a critique of theology [52:06] or if this is a crique of critique of a [52:08] text yeah I well I think it's both um so [52:12] it doesn't [52:14] outright teach heresy with this [52:16] translation right right right but it [52:18] certainly makes it easy to do that [52:21] because of the way it's translated and [52:23] more importantly this isn't the meaning [52:25] of the original so Christ doesn't mean [52:27] anointed one the emology might mean that [52:30] that doesn't mean the word means that [52:31] there's a difference between the word [52:32] and what its emology is doing the word [52:35] has way more baggage in meaning than [52:36] that so Jesus is the [52:39] Messiah we are not [52:42] Messiahs agreed okay so you can't [52:43] translate you can't you can't take the [52:45] term that applies to Jesus uniquely and [52:47] then apply it to us we're followers of [52:49] Christ not [52:50] christs and that's how he's translated [52:52] anointed ones as though we are the same [52:54] as him so he's kind of valued the the [52:57] the the implications of Messiah or [52:59] Christ and then uniz a label and applied [53:03] it to all of us that's really [53:05] problematic yeah yes yes yes yes yes I'm [53:07] on board now now if he had Mar like if [53:10] he had marketed on his website this is a [53:12] paraphrase this is not a [53:14] translation use this as a supplement to [53:17] kind of maybe help you understand some [53:19] things in the in actual Bible would we [53:21] be having any of this conversation right [53:23] now yeah I still would but but I think [53:26] the re is I'll explain a second but I [53:27] think he will it's inevitable like when [53:29] well I do predict a prophetic truth [53:33] today no I I don't know a good are you [53:36] seeing through the portal Realms yeah [53:39] portal Realms from what I've seen Brian [53:41] Simmons Alters his translation when he [53:43] receives criticism he doesn't fix the [53:45] trans the translation has pervasive [53:47] issues through every book and every [53:48] chapter people will highlight here's an [53:51] example here's an example when he reads [53:53] the article he'll change those exact [53:55] examples but he won't change the [53:56] pervasive issues dang okay so so I I [53:59] think he's very interested in getting [54:00] around criticisms but not actually [54:01] fixing the translation I saw that first [54:04] Timothy yeah there was a first Timothy [54:06] text that someone had had made an [54:08] article that was old uh and in the [54:10] article it removed the word correction [54:13] um in in the passion translation for [54:15] first second second Timothy 3:16 it was [54:18] like preach the word rebuke correct blah [54:20] blah blah it had three corrective nature [54:23] words out of four I think yeah and he [54:26] removed all correction it was like build [54:28] them up and encourage them and then I [54:30] looked in the passion translation the [54:32] newest rition on Bible Gateway and it [54:34] had been changed and I go really huh [54:36] yeah so I was like well I'm glad it's [54:38] changed but it sounds like Mike you're [54:40] actually going to be translating the P [54:42] it won't be Brian Simmons you're your [54:44] Scholars that are writing all of this [54:47] stuff if he changes all that stuff [54:48] you'll actually you'll you'll actually [54:49] have a wide impact on translating the [54:51] passion [54:52] translation [54:54] I I just want to get rid of okay we need [54:57] to ditch it so if he called it a here's [55:00] the thing if he called it a paraphrase [55:02] my job would be much harder because one [55:03] of the most ridiculous things and ABN [55:06] like obvious errors is the claims about [55:09] the translation made by the translator [55:11] if it wasn't for those claims a lot of [55:13] the criticisms would change we would [55:15] have to go just through the text verse [55:17] by verse but when you go through the [55:19] text verse by verse and you're saying [55:20] well this has reversed the emphasis of [55:22] the passage this has added a new idea it [55:24] might be theologically true but it's not [55:26] in the the passage when you do that [55:27] people just tune out yep and they don't [55:30] listen if he was to go here's the [55:32] strategy for Brian's if you're to go and [55:34] you go guys I just misrepresented it [55:36] slightly they're telling me it's a [55:38] paraphrase I'm humble and teachable I'm [55:40] going to put it the passion paraphrase [55:42] okay the passion Bible we'll call it the [55:44] passion Bible and it's a paraphrase now [55:46] and they go see problem solved and I'm [55:48] like no you still have all these weird [55:50] teachings embedded in the text you have [55:51] all these alterations and the people [55:54] he's he's selling it to are just sadly [55:58] not Discerning enough to even notice the [56:01] things that they're being they're [56:02] looking for a translation if they if [56:05] it's called a paraphrase they don't care [56:06] right they're just looking for something [56:07] that's useful for their preaching it [56:08] gives them preaching points it makes [56:09] them feel good um so I I hate to sound [56:12] cynical but yeah I want I want Bible [56:16] Gateway to take it off their website I [56:18] Want U verion app to say you know this [56:20] just isn't a good representation of [56:22] God's word the same reason why we're not [56:23] going to put the New World Translation [56:24] on our site we're taking it off [56:26] mhm right so if someone was to offer the [56:29] push back then like because you seem [56:31] somewhat comfortable with The Message [56:33] Bible right so what's the major major [56:37] difference or are you not comfortable [56:38] with it uh no I don't like it I think I [56:41] think it's a mistake [56:44] personally but but I say that um uh [56:49] that's actually not the position of the [56:50] scholars many of the scholars who like [56:52] uh Craig bomberg writes and he goes I [56:54] love paraphrases I like them I think [56:57] they're really good I I really like [56:58] paraphrases but then he goes on to [57:00] explain how the passion translation [57:01] needs a surgeon general's warning about [57:03] its potential hazards right so however [57:06] strict you think I am that's why I've [57:08] made got these Scholars to bring them in [57:09] and have and I've have not filtered [57:10] their views I've not told them what they [57:11] need to say like they would listen to me [57:12] anyway right like I just said look write [57:14] your paper and I'm just going to publish [57:15] it um and we're gonna interview them and [57:18] let them share their thing on my channel [57:20] but but yeah so no The Message Bible I [57:22] think is also problematic I think that [57:24] it's problematic for different reasons [57:26] it's not as bad as the passion [57:27] translation exactly no it's not and it [57:29] doesn't present itself you know like [57:31] it's translation so can we can we go [57:33] through some of the really problematic [57:35] translations I know we're actually we're [57:37] kind of cutting into extra time so if we [57:38] don't have time let me know and we'll [57:40] honor it we'll just kind of we'll wrap [57:42] up here uh he pulled he pulled a Craig [57:45] Keener nobody was looking he literally [57:47] walked off Set uh I don't did you watch [57:49] CRA we we had Craig Keener do an episode [57:51] about the post-trip Rapture and he fake [57:54] raptured he actually he played a trumpet [57:58] sound and pretended he was flying [58:01] away I can imagine him being all giddy [58:03] planning that oh he was so excited about [58:06] it he thought it was so funny and it was [58:09] pretty funny but um anyway uh uh uh yeah [58:12] if you have time let's let's uh discuss [58:14] those just those really problematic [58:16] translations just as a few examples some [58:18] of the most egregious ones uh that you [58:21] haven't already mentioned anyway yeah [58:23] now I want to say this I'll give you [58:24] guys a couple more examples to highlight [58:26] but um this is where it's different than [58:28] the New World Translation so the New [58:29] World Translation is like the Jehovah's [58:31] Witness translation the the JW's [58:33] translation is like a woodenly [58:36] literal like clumsy but very literal [58:40] translation right it's on the bad side [58:42] of too literal except in places where [58:45] the deity of Christ comes up right [58:46] because in those passages they're going [58:48] to change the text so they they [58:50] radically alter very small sections of [58:53] scripture otherwise they have a clumsy [58:54] wood wooden word for word type [58:56] translation the passion translation is [58:59] not like that um it radically Alters [59:02] like everything but not heretically [59:06] right it's it's the not generally [59:08] it's the cumulative the cumulative uh [59:11] changes when you add up how radically [59:13] different it is you know the book of [59:14] Psalms is like 30% longer in the passion [59:16] translation because of all the extra [59:18] stuff he's added in there um Andrew [59:20] Sheed who did a review of the book of [59:22] Psalms who was a legit scholar on the [59:24] topic said the passion translation made [59:26] so many changes to Psalms that it's no [59:28] longer uh poetry it's Pros it's like it [59:31] changed the genre of literature like how [59:33] much you have to mess up a translation [59:35] where the genre has changed so really [59:38] the issue here is it's so pervasive the [59:40] changes are so pervasive that there's [59:42] like a it's like death by a million cuts [59:45] um but there are a few specific things [59:47] and I mentioned the anointed ones things [59:49] there's the activate your gift stuff um [59:51] he adds into Romans 12 that you have to [59:52] activate your gifts let me I'll read it [59:54] to you here Romans 126 [59:56] God's marvelous Grace this is in this is [59:59] the verse that says um having diff gifts [60:01] that differ according to the grace given [60:03] to us let us use them if prophecy in [60:05] proportion to our faith here's his [60:08] translation God's marvelous Grace [60:10] imparts to each one of us very in gifts [60:12] and Ministries that are uniquely ours [60:15] now if you pay attention to translations [60:16] you realize he's adding a whole bunch of [60:18] words and ideas that aren't in the text [60:19] but it goes on he's just getting started [60:21] so if God has given you the grace gift [60:23] of Prophecy you must activate your gift [60:27] by using the proportion of Faith you [60:28] have to prophesy and he adds that term [60:31] activate your gift uh a few places in [60:33] scripture wrongly so another one is [60:36] women issues related to gender issues um [60:38] he's very much like um egalitarian not [60:42] complimentary in in or so it seems he so [60:46] he just changes things like he removes [60:47] the word submit where it says like um [60:49] why submit to your husbands in the [60:51] scripture he just removes it he just he [60:54] won't translate it as [60:56] and so Ephesians 5:24 here's like the [60:58] ESV it says as the church submits to [61:01] Christ so also wives should submit in [61:02] everything to their husbands okay I'm [61:05] not I'm not talking about overbearing [61:06] and all this other stuff I know our [61:07] culture is freaking out about all these [61:08] issues and they're not even listening in [61:10] some cases but I I just want an accurate [61:12] translation from my Bible okay in [61:14] Ephesians 524 in the passion says in the [61:16] same way the church is devoted to Christ [61:19] let wives be devoted to their husbands [61:21] and everything so he translates the word [61:23] submit as devoted now I check a bunch of [61:26] Greek resources on this you can't [61:29] translate that word devoted that's just [61:31] not what it means never yeah like let me [61:33] read to you here's one two three four [61:36] five six Greek lexicons on this word [61:39] I'll read you their definitions to [61:41] subject oneself Place oneself in [61:42] submission here's another one to submit [61:44] to the orders or directives of someone [61:46] here's another one to obey be obedient [61:48] bring under control here's another one [61:50] be subject submit to obey be under the [61:52] authority of nasb says that their [61:54] dictionary says to Pace or rank under to [61:57] obey finally the analytical lexicon of [62:00] the Greek New Testament to be submissive [62:02] over uh to be submissive to be over or [62:04] to subject oneself so the the consistent [62:09] you know translation would just use the [62:10] word submit and then if if you're [62:12] egalitarian you're you're you're just [62:13] going to find a way to interpret that [62:15] differently you're not going to [62:16] translate it [62:17] differently however here's the crazy [62:19] thing a couple verses earlier where it [62:22] says wives um submit to your husbands [62:27] he has a footnote that says thee word [62:29] for the Greek word for submit and [62:32] mentions the word says is not in this [62:34] verse now that's true the Greek word for [62:37] submits not in that verse it's borrowed [62:38] from the context of the previous verse [62:40] where it says submitting to one [62:42] another but here's what's crazy in his [62:45] footnotes he acknowledges that that's [62:46] the Greek word for submit but then in [62:49] verse 24 when the Greek word shows up he [62:51] translates itot he chooses not to [62:53] translate it to submit because he [62:55] doesn't like the teaching I mean I can't [62:56] think of another reason why he would do [62:58] this he's aware of what it means he just [63:01] he wants to get out of the text he's [63:02] also retranslated um things like uh [63:05] proverbs 31 he's retranslated Revelation [63:07] to to promote his theology he's his [63:10] eschatology is translated into the Book [63:13] of Revelation so does he go does he go [63:16] post-millennial with his translations I [63:18] would guess he's probably post [63:20] millennial yeah I think so I think so um [63:23] so Matthew 4:4 here's another one right [63:25] um [63:26] Jesus says As it is or is it because let [63:29] me start over getting getting ahead of [63:30] myself Matthew 4:4 says but he answered [63:33] it is written man shall not live by [63:35] bread alone but by every word that comes [63:36] from the mouth of God man will live by [63:39] every word that comes from the mouth of [63:40] God right here's what Jesus says in the [63:42] passion translation the scripture says [63:45] bread alone will not [63:46] satisfy but true life is found in every [63:49] word which constantly Goes Forth from [63:52] God's mouth because he's a [63:54] continuationist is going to say that the [63:56] word of God is what's constantly going [63:58] out he wants to move away from the [63:59] scripture being the word of God here [64:01] which actually is what Jesus is talking [64:02] about he's talking he talking about the [64:04] scripture clearly in context but he [64:07] wants it to be about continued [64:08] Revelation in the church [64:11] wow that hurts for us I mean as everyone [64:15] that's present is a continuationist [64:16] right we believe that that that the [64:18] gifts of the Spirit have [64:19] continued but as honest critics we we [64:24] want to call balls and Strikes and we [64:25] actually lose all of our Authority um to [64:28] to make claims on the Bible we lose all [64:30] of our Authority when we're talking to a [64:33] Mormon we lose all of our Authority when [64:35] someone comes down and says I've got a [64:36] new translation of the Bible and I'm [64:38] going to create my group of uh the [64:40] theology that people are going to come [64:41] in me and follow if if we kind of look [64:43] at this and Turnal Blind Eye to it we [64:45] lose all ground and all theological [64:48] right to just say oh uh my My Views [64:51] about women My Views about the church My [64:53] Views about the gifts I'm going to [64:55] impose and and it would be beneficial [64:57] for me to like the passion translation I [64:59] could use it and wave it in my debates [65:01] and I could I could I could say no see [65:02] what the scripture says this here it [65:04] would help me but that's not honest [65:06] scholarship um and we lose theological [65:09] ground in right uh when we do stuff like [65:11] that it's it's shameful um as a [65:14] continuationist right yeah and I mean [65:17] and if and if we're have integrity we [65:19] don't need to change the Bible to agree [65:20] with our theology if theology is right [65:23] why do I have to alter the text that's [65:25] it hey [65:26] uh Pastor Mike thank you so much yeah I [65:28] gotta give you one last example last one [65:30] yeah do it it all right this is from [65:32] Song of Solomon 114 where in in most [65:35] translations they just put the word inti [65:37] inti which is a location in Israel um [65:40] you can visit there actually still it's [65:41] really beautiful it's by the on your way [65:43] to the Dead Sea I think so the um the [65:46] translation he offers is to interpret [65:47] inti as the Fountain of the Lamb because [65:51] he thinks song of Solin is an allegory [65:53] about Jesus in the church so he calls it [65:54] the Fountain of the Lamb so it's [65:56] reference to Jesus right so this is what [65:59] trer Longman who is specialized in the [66:01] Song of Solomon and who did a review for [66:03] my project the prion translation he says [66:05] in 114 Simmons says that inti means [66:09] Fountain of the lamb and obviously wants [66:11] us to think this is some kind of [66:12] Illusion to Jesus as the Lamb of God [66:14] unfortunately for him Getty means goat [66:18] and the place name means Fountain of the [66:22] goat now how many pastors who preach [66:24] from the passion will be like this is [66:26] all about Jesus is Fountain of the lamb [66:27] and they're all excited about it and [66:29] it's the Fountain of the goat and the [66:30] point isn't even the name of the place [66:32] the meaning of the name it's the [66:34] location that we should be thinking [66:35] about but it's good preaching point I [66:36] love any Remnant radio episode that will [66:39] bring to the surface that song of songs [66:41] is not just an allegory yeah it's it's I [66:44] don't know you probably don't know this [66:45] it's kind of a vested interest of ours [66:47] to be like it is a little bit Yeah well [66:49] you should read what you'll read when I [66:51] interview triper Longman you'll enjoy [66:53] that I'll be looking forward to okay so [66:56] I want to come back to this really quick [66:57] though because you've touched on several [66:58] genres this is interesting to me so he's [67:01] he's uh he's turned the song of songs [67:03] into allegory which hey some people have [67:05] that interpretation that it's [67:06] allegorical that's one thing but he's [67:08] built that into his [67:11] translation uh you said he's done the [67:13] same thing with Revelation and that [67:16] apocalyptic genre uh I mean Revelation [67:19] is like multiple genres but still uh [67:21] then you mentioned the Psalms that he's [67:23] turned it into Pros is there anything [67:25] else like that that he's genre skipped [67:28] genre skipped that he's changed or [67:31] flipped the script on the [67:32] genre um I don't know if I have another [67:35] example uh at least not off the top of [67:37] my head that I could say [67:39] um I know like hit the genres I guess [67:42] you've got wisdom literature remaining [67:44] you know what [67:46] he he turned it into um a teaching about [67:50] the church and evangelism when it's [67:52] about The Virtuous Woman and so it's [67:54] like she plants she plants that actually [67:56] is a changing of genre there it is off [67:58] the top of your head you're even lable [67:59] to do it look there you go anyway wow [68:03] yeah go read the go read your favorite [68:05] passage of the Bible that you know the [68:07] best favorite verse go read it in any [68:09] normal translation then read it in the [68:11] passion and you'll see yeah wow hey [68:15] thank you so much for coming on we have [68:16] such great respect for you and your [68:18] channel uh man I'd really encourage [68:19] especially people who watch the bethl [68:21] episodes go on to Mike's Channel watch [68:24] uh his critiques of bethl I think that [68:26] they're thoughtful I think that they're [68:28] uh they're I don't know they're not [68:30] they're not critical and I think that's [68:31] one of the things that we really need to [68:33] to be embracing as a Pentecostal [68:35] charismatic church is to be able to say [68:37] look uh there are people out there who [68:39] are looking at us who who just are [68:41] thoughtful they care about us and [68:43] they're saying hey look uh you guys [68:45] really need to consider the way that you [68:47] say this the way you articulate this the [68:48] way you think about this because it'll [68:50] better and enrich your life there's lots [68:52] of heretic Hunters out there there's [68:53] lots of discernment Ministries out there [68:55] that just want to beat up the body of [68:57] Christ and show them where they're wrong [68:58] Mike doesn't have that heart he doesn't [69:00] have that posture I'd really advise uh [69:03] Christians of of all flavors check out [69:05] his channel make sure to go and [69:06] subscribe and the solution to that isn't [69:08] to accept everything that's right that's [69:10] right like there's a way to to there is [69:12] like discernment is important so Mike [69:15] you just do a spectacular job at that we [69:17] think and we love your channel so make [69:18] sure you subscribe to yeah to Mike's [69:21] Channel and uh subscribe to ours too [69:23] that'd be cool and for patreon uh help [69:27] us out a little bit you for as little as [69:28] $5 a month you can help support the [69:30] channel and make sure that you are [69:32] helping us continue to create content [69:34] like this yeah we got videos on [69:36] Discerning discernment Ministries up [69:37] there on patreon yeah Special content [69:39] lots of great stuff so uh Pastor Mike [69:41] thank you so much for coming on uh one [69:43] last kind of plug uh tell people about [69:45] your channel uh and the I guess both [69:47] channels uh and how they get connected [69:49] with you sure I mean you know the [69:51] easiest way is you could um just go to [69:53] to watch my content is go to Mike wi ER [69:55] on YouTube that's just my name just type [69:57] it into YouTube it'll pop up that's for [69:59] all my Christian Focus theological [70:01] content if you're interested in YouTube [70:03] training and doing your own YouTube [70:04] channel doing well at it and learning [70:05] those kinds of skills and you're [70:07] especially if you're an Evangelical [70:08] Christian go to YouTube tactics with [70:11] Mike Winger that's the name of the new [70:12] YouTube channel and um and I'm actually [70:15] doing trainings I'm actually bringing [70:16] people on I'm gonna do live streams [70:17] where I actually walk them through look [70:19] at their Channel and talk about tips and [70:20] things they can change and do better and [70:23] um then other than that Bible thinker. [70:24] org is the we site and I guess that's [70:26] about all I got cool well thanks thanks [70:28] again for coming on matter respect keep [70:30] up the good work blessings thanks guys [70:33] God bless [70:34] [Music] [70:44] you  ## Highlights - While Winger focuses on methodology, some characterizations of Simmons as a "storyteller" could be seen as attacking character rather than just credentials - Note: 🔍 Fallacy: Ad Hominem #fallacy/ad-hominem - Citations of multiple credentialed scholars (Moo, Bloomberg, etc.) are appropriate given the technical nature of translation evaluation - Note: 🔍 Fallacy: Appeal to Authority #fallacy/appeal-to-authority