The 'White Genocide' Myth Is Shaping Immigration Policy  🔗 **Source:** [The 'White Genocide' Myth Is Shaping Immigration Policy](https://share.snipd.com/episode/4b276de9-c10e-4c9d-910b-9d4175d8ee20) ## Highlights - **U.S. Refugee Policy Prioritized Afrikaners** - Since Oct 2025 nearly all U.S. refugees admitted have been white South Africans under a special Trump program claiming persecution. - The administration reserved 10,000 newly added refugee slots specifically for Afrikaners amid widely debunked genocide claims. Transcript: Gene Demby You know, you got Afghans and people from Sudan and Ukrainians and the Rohingya. But the Trump administration has made one gigantic exception, and that's for white South Africans known as Afrikaners. Of the more than 6,000 people who have been admitted into the U.S. As refugees since October 2025, every single one, except for three, came from South Africa. The administration set up a special program for these Afrikaners just to make it easier for them to come to the U.S. And just last month, Trump raised the cap on how many refugees the country could let in, and it added 10,000 spots. But it reserved all 10,000 of those spots for Afrikaners. B.A. Parker About that is that the claims of persecution behind this refugee program are based on this wildly debunked far-right conspiracy about South Africa, that white farmers are being killed By gangs of Black South Africans, and that their land is being seized by the government. Gene Demby Yeah, they claim that they are the victims of an anti-white genocide. ([Time 0:01:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/04c6d633-2932-4d90-b297-abc8ecf9d4fe)) - **Oval Office Moment Where Trump Made The Case** - John Eligo described being inside the Oval Office when Trump played a montage accusing South Africa of persecuting Afrikaners. - The video showed Julius Malema chanting and aerial shots of crosses planted by activists, creating an awkward moment for President Ramaphosa. Transcript: John Eligo Know, on the surface, it felt like when Trump talks about white genocide in South Africa, like a lot of people I spoke to felt that was more so just cover for punishing South Africa for Its geopolitical stances. But I think a lot of that narrative called into question when Trump met the South African president. Gene Demby That's John Eligo. He covers South Africa and much of Southern Africa for The New York Times. And he was in the room when President Trump turned this meeting in a more conspiratorial direction. John Eligo So walked in, you know, this is my first ever time in the Oval Office and going to one of these meetings. So this was all kind of new for me. But there was been so much anticipation, right? So it was like, what is going to happen here? Honestly, it was kind of like, it was kind of like an anxious moment. Like, oh man, like, could this all go crazy? Or, you know, will it be very nice and friendly? And so, you know, you walk in and, you know, it's like a crowd, a bunch of reporters and stuff, and they get walked around to the other side. So I'm standing behind the South African delegation. And from my side, I'm facing the U.S. Delegation, which is, you know, sitting on the couch right next to Trump is J.D. Vance. And then Pete Hegseth was there. And behind them was Elon Musk was standing on the end. And, yeah, so, I mean, it was crowded in, you know, presidents were sitting next to each other. And it started off cordial. B.A. Parker Thank you very much, everyone. It's a great honor to be with the president of South Africa, President Ramaphosa. And he is a man who is certainly in some circles really respected, circles a little bit less respected, like all of us in all fairness, like all of us. We all like that. John Eligo President Cyril Ramaphosa, the president of South Africa, he was doing everything he needed to do, right? He was complimenting Trump. Came to say, I brought you a book about golf. And then part of the South African delegation were two white South African golfers. What a group of golfers South Africa's had. B.A. Parker Yes, yes. There must be something in the water, right? Something good. These two guys are unbelievable. It's the water set. John Eligo Raul Pozo was doing everything to sort of put on the charm and all that. And even still, you could tell early on, Trump was not necessarily there to play nice because there were a couple of times where he'd drop a line saying, oh, that South African president, He's controversial for some people, and then they kind of laughed it off. So you figured, yeah, OK, so maybe this isn't going to be the nicest thing behind closed doors, but they're keeping decorum here. And then the moment that it really all turned was when a South African journalist asked President Trump. Mr. President, this time, what would it take for you to be convinced that there's no white genocide in South Africa? Well, I can answer that for President Trump. Asked President Trump. And then for me inexplicably, the South African president, or of course, it cuts in and said, no, no, no, let me answer that. And then Trump kind of joked and said, yeah, I'd rather him answer that. So then the South African president says it's going to take Donald Trump listening. President Trump listening to the voices of South Africans, some of whom are his good friends, like those who are here. B.A. Parker When we have talks between us at a quiet table, it will take President Trump to listen to them. John Eligo So he kind of went on about that, about basically saying Trump needs to listen like which, again, was probably a more aggressive message than you want to send. But that basically gave Trump an opening to do what he had essentially come there to do. And he basically said, well, hold on, you know, there are problems in South Africa and let me show you. B.A. Parker I could show you a couple of things and I would, I just, I have to, it has to be responded to. John Eligo He says, let's dim the lights, and then he points over to a TV screen. Excuse me, turn the lights down. Which was, like, right behind me where I was standing, so I, like, had to, like, move out of the way. And I know how these things go, so now I know, like, the whole world is not watching me, because I know the cameras have to point toward the TV screen, And I'm trying to lean out of the way Very unsuccessfully. Because I got all these texts on my phone from people who were like, oh, everyone sent me the screenshot. Everyone I've ever known in my life sent me a screenshot of me standing next to this TV. You're now associated with this conspiracy theory. Yes, yes. And so it's me. It's just me standing there. So then now they play on this TV, this leftist firebrand politician, Julius Malema, doing chants of the song Kill the Boar, which is a song that was created during the apartheid era, Which South African courts have said is not a literal call to violence, but was more so an anti-apartheid sort of a chant back then. Kill the boar, kill the farmer, which is, you know, basically calling for the killing of Afrikaners is what the literal meaning of it would be. That sounds pretty controversial and inflammatory. Yeah, it definitely is controversial and inflammatory, no doubt. So it's undoubtedly controversial. But we can say that the courts in South Africa has ruled that it is not a literal call to violence. And there's also sort of the fact that there has never been any sort of direct violence that has been associated with that song. Now, that said, again, like it's controversial, and many South Africans, you know, including those who are very much anti-apartheid and very much for the struggle and for Black empowerment, Would disavow that song. Gene Demby What was the mood in the room, like, as that clip is playing? Are people, how are people reacting to the fact that this song? John Eligo Yeah, so as it's playing, so as it started, President Ramaphosa, he leaned over to Trump to try to say something like, no, no, like this is—and then Trump literally like swatted his hand Away and said—and pointed to the thing and said, no, watch. And then the South African president, I was looking at him, and he was just like—he had kind of one of those like, oh my goodness, like this. Like, what can I do about this, you know? So he definitely seemed exasperated with it, the South African president. Um, then you look, ([Time 0:05:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6ac41d61-f30d-482e-afdd-87f865a9abeb)) - **Trump Used A Dimmable Video Montage And Printed Articles** - John Eligo recounted Trump dimming lights and pointing to a TV while he played clips and then waving printed articles labeled 'death' in the meeting. - The pile included unrelated pieces, like a Congo photo and a two-year-old article by Eligo himself. Transcript: John Eligo It has to be responded to. He says, let's dim the lights, and then he points over to a TV screen. Excuse me, turn the lights down. Which was, like, right behind me where I was standing, so I, like, had to, like, move out of the way. And I know how these things go, so now I know, like, the whole world is not watching me, because I know the cameras have to point toward the TV screen, And I'm trying to lean out of the way Very unsuccessfully. Because I got all these texts on my phone from people who were like, oh, everyone sent me the screenshot. Everyone I've ever known in my life sent me a screenshot of me standing next to this TV. You're now associated with this conspiracy theory. Yes, yes. And so it's me. It's just me standing there. So then now they play on this TV, this leftist firebrand politician, Julius Malema, doing chants of the song Kill the Boar, which is a song that was created during the apartheid era, Which South African courts have said is not a literal call to violence, but was more so an anti-apartheid sort of a chant back then. Kill the boar, kill the farmer, which is, you know, basically calling for the killing of Afrikaners is what the literal meaning of it would be. That sounds pretty controversial and inflammatory. Yeah, it definitely is controversial and inflammatory, no doubt. So it's undoubtedly controversial. But we can say that the courts in South Africa has ruled that it is not a literal call to violence. And there's also sort of the fact that there has never been any sort of direct violence that has been associated with that song. Now, that said, again, like it's controversial, and many South Africans, you know, including those who are very much anti-apartheid and very much for the struggle and for Black empowerment, Would disavow that song. Gene Demby What was the mood in the room, like, as that clip is playing? Are people, how are people reacting to the fact that this song? John Eligo Yeah, so as it's playing, so as it started, President Ramaphosa, he leaned over to Trump to try to say something like, no, no, like this is—and then Trump literally like swatted his hand Away and said—and pointed to the thing and said, no, watch. And then the South African president, I was looking at him, and he was just like—he had kind of one of those like, oh my goodness, like this. Like, what can I do about this, you know? So he definitely seemed exasperated with it, the South African president. Um, then you look, I was standing right across from those two golfers, Ernie Els and, and Rayteeth Goussin. Um, Ernie Els had his hands on his hips and he just like, oh geez, you know, it just, it just looked like he was just like, you know, he was just totally dejected. Goussin just had his hands in front of him. He was looking down at the ground, you know, like, you know, just none of them like even looking at the video. They were just kind of staring away because it was a very awkward situation. Yeah. Yeah. The entire South African delegation was just frankly very like very aghast that this was playing. Gene Demby They were just trying to get through the – they're just trying to get through it. John Eligo Exactly. Exactly. They were trying to get through it. At one point, there's a member of the delegation. I made eye contact with him, someone I know, and he kind of just like flipped his hands up like, OK, what can we do, you know? So when the video ends and presumably Trump turns up the lights, what happens? So then Trump had this stack of articles sitting next to him. He's printed out articles. What would you like President Ramaphosa to do about the situation? I don't know. And he starts raising them up and saying, like, see, these are all... B.A. Parker These are articles over the last few days. John Eligo Examples of Afrikaners who've been killed and, you know, of death that's happened. He took up, like, the articles. He held one up and he put it down. He said, death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Death. Horrible death. Death. I don't know. I think anyone white South Africans are fleeing because of the violence and racist laws. He's trying to insist that these were all articles about death and killing in South Africa, when in actuality they were not. One of them was an article where the featured photo was actually in the Congo, in DRC, the Democratic Republic of Congo. So it had nothing to do with South Africa. It wasn't even the same country. Exactly. It wasn't even the same country. And then there were apparently an article that I wrote about Malema singing that Kill the Boar song was actually in that pile, too. One of my articles was from two years ago. Gene Demby All over this story. Yeah, exactly. Trump was citing your work. John Eligo Yeah, yeah, there we go. So, yeah, he starts to kind of carry on about that. And then you have this kind of South African president is trying to say, no, no, no. And he's trying to interject. ([Time 0:08:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c70c9dbf-6091-42f5-a793-9e5bda354dfb)) - **Visuals Were Misrepresented As Evidence** - Eligo explained the clips Trump showed were misleading or mislocated and didn't prove a coordinated campaign against Afrikaners. - Crosses were symbolic protest markers from 2020 and farm murders are a tiny fraction of South Africa's homicide toll, with most victims Black. Transcript: John Eligo So when the video was playing, the montage video of Julius Malema saying various incendiary things, there was one clip in which you could see it was sort of an overhead shot, almost like From a helicopter or a drone or something. B.A. Parker Each one of those white things you see is a cross. John Eligo It was of a South African highway in a rural area, and you could see cars parked along the side, and you could see crosses planted all along the side of the highway for, you know, far into The distance. And as it was playing, Cyril Ramaphosa, he was shocked. Have they told you where that is, Mr. President? Yeah. And Trump said it's also that these are burial sites. I mean, it's in South Africa, that's where. It turns out this was actually crosses planted by white activists who were trying to raise attention or bring awareness to what they say is the issue of murders of white people in rural Communities. Gene Demby So the crosses were symbolic and Trump was saying that they're literal crosses marking where people's bodies were buried. John Eligo Yes, exactly. They were symbolic crosses. And our New York Times video team, they were able to track down, you know, to verify the video was actually from a protest in 2020 after two white people had been killed on a farm. This sort of protest broke out and these crosses were part of that protest. What we know from police statistics in South Africa is that of all the murders in South Africa, murders on farms account for a very tiny percentage of the overall killings. And what we also do know is that of those killings on farms, more often than not, it's black people who are killed on farms. So be it workers or, you know, people who live in settlements around farms. Even if you count the violence on farms, it's not targeting Afrikaners. And then the last element, I would say, what Afrikaners do argue, they say that the police statistics are an undercount, that they don't count all of the Afrikaners who are killed, that Their definition of what's a rural crime and what's not is skewed. And so they will say, you know, like, look at our numbers. There's been Afrikaner farm groups that have collected names and sort of data of their own saying, you know, there's been like 3000 plus killings of farmers since the end of apartheid. Now, even if you were to count that as truth, right, when you look at genocides, I mean, if you look at what's happening in Sudan, like they're looking at 150,000 killings in the course Of a year, you know, year and a half, two years now. So, I mean, to put that in perspective, the scale of killings, you know, while obviously every killing is tragic and something that needs to be addressed, to say that it's on a scale of Genocide is not supported by any evidence. ([Time 0:15:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/38e3dc27-0b38-4afb-bb96-a4f3641a9467)) - **Scale Doesn't Match Genocide Definition** - Even Afrikaner-led casualty tallies fall far short of genocide-scale violence when compared to other contemporary mass killing crises. - Eligo contrasted alleged farmer counts with conflicts like Sudan's tens of thousands killed to show scale differences. Transcript: John Eligo And what we also do know is that of those killings on farms, more often than not, it's black people who are killed on farms. So be it workers or, you know, people who live in settlements around farms. Even if you count the violence on farms, it's not targeting Afrikaners. And then the last element, I would say, what Afrikaners do argue, they say that the police statistics are an undercount, that they don't count all of the Afrikaners who are killed, that Their definition of what's a rural crime and what's not is skewed. And so they will say, you know, like, look at our numbers. There's been Afrikaner farm groups that have collected names and sort of data of their own saying, you know, there's been like 3000 plus killings of farmers since the end of apartheid. Now, even if you were to count that as truth, right, when you look at genocides, I mean, if you look at what's happening in Sudan, like they're looking at 150,000 killings in the course Of a year, you know, year and a half, two years now. So, I mean, to put that in perspective, the scale of killings, you know, while obviously every killing is tragic and something that needs to be addressed, to say that it's on a scale of Genocide is not supported by any evidence. ([Time 0:17:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a6987e68-f839-4c23-bff7-e39cdad32d46)) - **How The Conspiracy Reached Trump** - Trump first referenced white South African farmers publicly in 2018 after conservative media and lobby groups amplified the claim. - John Bolton said Trump heard the story from golfer Gary Player and Tucker Carlson later aired segments that pushed the narrative. Transcript: Gene Demby And that's long before, you know, Elon Musk, you know, who of course is South African and grew up on apartheid and is sympathetic to this theory. That's long before he was a close confidant of Trump's. So how did this conspiracy theory get on Trump's radar? John Eligo Yeah. So I would say he's more vocal about it now, but his first sort of public mention of this idea of potential white genocide was actually in 2018 during his first term. And so here's what happened. So I did some reporting along with my colleagues, Zolan Kano, Youngs and Erica Green, who cover the White House. We were able to find out that speaking to John Bolton, who was the national security advisor during Trump's first term, who was one of his national security advisors, he told us that During a meeting in the Situation Room that had nothing to do with South Africa or Africa, it was some other issue they were talking about, in the middle of it, Trump just kind of stops And says, you know, do you hear what's happening to white farmers in South Africa? Like they're being killed, they're being persecuted and all this stuff. And he just kind of blurted that out in the middle of a meeting that had nothing to do with it. And what John Bolton told us was that Trump had mentioned that he had heard about this happening from Gary Player, who was another white South African golfer who Trump adores and is very Close to Trump. Now, Gary Player, he's kind of trying to distance himself from having said anything or suggesting that there's this Afrikaner persecution. But then it's sort of amplified when in 2018 there were Afrikaner lobby groups, right? And they've been active in terms of lobbying going all across the globe for years now to try and spread their message and to further their cause. One of them being that they're being persecuted in South Africa. Gene Demby Were they getting a lot of traction? John Eligo So they were certainly getting a lot of attention from the right-wing folks around the globe. And they came to the U.S. They met with, you know, some of the conservative think tanks. There were some politicians they met with. And then they met with Tucker Carlson. He had a show on Fox News at the time, and he's someone who's very close to Trump, also peddles a lot of conspiracy theories. And some of these Afrikaner activists, they went on Tucker's show and they talked about, you know, these issues that they say Afrikaners and white people are facing in South Africa, This discrimination they say that they're facing. And sometime after that, in 2018, Tucker Carlson, he had a segment on his show in which he talked about land seizures happening in South Africa. We've got an exclusive investigation for you tonight. The president of South Africa, Cyril Ramaphosa, has begun, and you may have seen this in the press, seizing land from his own citizens without compensation because they are the wrong Skin color. That is literally the definition of racism. Very shortly after this piece aired, I think like hours after it aired, that's when Trump first publicly said something about the Afrikaner issue. He posted on what was Twitter at the time, he posted a tweet saying that he was calling on Mike Pompeo, who's the secretary of state at the time, to do an investigation into the mass killings And seizure of land of white people in South Africa. ([Time 0:21:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/25abb036-43c6-4f92-b138-cac8fcb97914)) - **Genocide Claim Is Fringe But Politically Useful** - The idea of a white genocide is mainly a fringe position among Afrikaners and not a mainstream South African belief. - Some mainstream politicians still amplified rural violence rhetoric to court right-wing voters, which kept the narrative alive. Transcript: John Eligo Yes, I would say overall it's a fringe position, yes. You know, and I've looked at some surveys to this effect. You know, I think a lot of white South Africans, and specifically Afrikaners, do believe that they do face some sort of discrimination and some disadvantage. But to go to the degree of saying, like, we're being killed in mass numbers, and the government's just taking away our land, those positions would be more contained to the fringe. And while there might be the sense of vulnerability among many Afrikaners, I think a lot of them still see South Africa as a place where they can have success, right? A lot of South Africans, you know, regardless of race, they buy into this idea of a rainbow nation, which is what South Africa calls itself at the end of apartheid. Like, we're this rainbow nation where we're going to be people of all races, creeds, faiths, living together and building a country together. This is not going to be a place where we're driving out white people because they were part of the apartheid regime. And Mandela was a very forgiving figure in that sense. And so you can find a lot of Afrikaners today, they believe thoroughly in that. They believe very strongly in this idea of this rainbow nation and this idea that South Africa is a place for all. And then that everyone is sort of equally sort of South African, right? I think it is definitely a French position to say that there is this genocide going on. But I think one thing I will say on that is that there are mainstream political groups that didn't go so far as to say that there was genocide. But they, in order to cater to some of the potential right wing voters they could get, they sort of played up the idea of violence and farms and rural violence. And that helped to feed the larger narrative, even if they weren't saying directly that there's genocide. But I think that that helped to keep this narrative of white genocide going on. ([Time 0:24:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/21394789-90ae-4341-8460-6a7ba51aafb8)) - **Black South Africans Push Back With Humor And Facts** - Black South Africans responded with anger, disbelief, and humor to the white genocide claims, often mocking apocalyptic portrayals online. - Filmmaker Mandla Dube, a farm attack survivor, called the narrative insulting and noted many farmers live and purchase land legitimately. Transcript: John Eligo Black South Africans have always sort of used humor as a way to blunt the difficulties that they're going through. So you're seeing this show up on social media now, right? Whether that be people sort of acting like, you know, there's some apocalypse coming for white people and they're acting that out online. So that is definitely one way. The other way is they're just calling it out and saying, like, this is untrue. I spoke to one very successful film producer in South Africa, Mandla Dube. He has films that have been on Netflix and whatnot, but he also farms. And he was a victim of a farm attack. And he said it's Afrikaners who live all around him on that farm, you know, where he farms. And he said, you know, so the idea that like white farmers are targeted and that they're the ones who are, you know, needing some sort of special treatment, he said it's basically insulting. Nobody, we didn't take this land from some poor Afrikaner. You know, it was purchased. It was purchased. It's a family farm. So you're seeing sort of the range of emotions from black people from like, let's hit this head on with humor or just they're completely aghast and completely insulted by it at all. ([Time 0:29:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9fe83d3e-c0b3-483b-863a-01d979d8bcf3)) - **South Africa Framed As Warning For DEI Fears** - Trump's allies use South Africa as a cautionary tale linking racial redress to national decline, framing DEI as a cause of economic and social collapse. - Conservative podcasters explicitly equate South Africa's service problems and crime with racial policy outcomes. Transcript: John Eligo For us? For people who are in Trump's orbit, South Africa is undoubtedly what they point to as the example of what in their eyes will happen if DEI goes mad in America. If DEI is allowed to flourish in America, then they say it's going to be South Africa. And that South Africa is one, as we've been talking about, where white people are under threat. They're being killed. They're having their land seized. They're being persecuted. They're facing all these laws that are like trying to discriminate against them in terms of getting jobs, in terms of owning their land. And you just hear it all the time in these allies who are very close to Trump. So, like, there are certain, some of these conservative podcasters. I mean, I was watching a podcast between Charlie Kirk and Jack Possibik, two, you know, very conservative people in Trump's orbit. They were talking explicitly about South Africa and how South African society is broken down. Like, you know, like we said, there's high crime. There's a lot of service delivery issues, the power, you know, there's issues with electricity, with water supply and all these things. And they essentially equated that to DEI, essentially. That's why the economy is struggling. That's why they can't keep the lights on. That's why the water supply is shaky. That's why crime is high. That's sort of the narrative that they were creating there. ([Time 0:31:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/58c1586e-90fb-4eb3-aaec-7ac111999887))