The CMO Is a Dying Role, Says Digitas' Amy Lanzi  🔗 **Source:** [The CMO Is a Dying Role, Says Digitas' Amy Lanzi](https://share.snipd.com/episode/0869eda6-c957-49c3-acfc-27a807ae8120) ## Highlights - **AI Is The New Programmatic Hype Cycle** - The AI hype mirrors the programmatic boom: promises of full automation ignored the need for human judgment. - Lanzi warns AI is the 'new programmatic'—it still requires people to manage nuance and brand context. Transcript: Amy Lanzi Platforms? Whenever this conversation comes about the promise of AI, I always go back to the promise of programmatic. How many of you remember when programmatic was a thing? No more people. It was all going to magically. No one in this room admitted that they remembered the programmatic ever five minutes. Right. And that was a time when it was all just going to magically happen. And it magically still needs people, still has the nuance of brands and the marketplace and all of the things that we do to define our partnerships and what are going to be game changers. So I go back to that because I feel like the AI story is the new programmatic story with the promise of everything just being absolutely automated. And that absolutely did not happen. ([Time 0:05:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2d246b7d-9780-4617-b7ad-2e91051eb0b2)) - **Automate Busywork To Free People For Strategy** - Use AI to automate routine tasks so people can focus on higher-value creative and strategy. - Digitas built internal agents to free staff time, letting junior talent prototype solutions that later solve business problems. Transcript: Amy Lanzi So for me, and I'll talk about Digitas AI in particular, we started to make our people better unicorns, as we talked about the last time we met. So it was really to say, okay, everyone look at what's on your desk, like what's in your day, and think about what you absolutely could build an agent to do. And that way we fear up our time to do this. So that's where we started. And then what was fascinating is the magical things that were able to be built by the young talent in the industry that is solving a working problem, but eventually a business problem. That still holds because every day, you know, I always say as a Gen Xer, I'm like, hackers wanted. If you have a hacking mentality and you're curious, you can actually do better things than I did when I was a hacker in that age. So it enables us to use our agents, use our data to get to better ideas, better workflows that are more of a surprise and delight to clients than what you might have brought in the first Round. Because you can do many rounds before you actually get to the final product. And that's how you get to the unique outcome. ([Time 0:06:41](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5852a3b0-6964-4cc3-9ec4-a74cbd39170e)) - **Reorganize Around Intelligence Systems And Transformation** - Restructure roles around intelligence, systems, and transformation to scale marketing capabilities. - Digitas created Chief Intelligence, Chief Systems, and Chief Transformation officers to unify data, marketing systems, and client transformation. Transcript: Amy Lanzi So that's why we have our chief intelligence officer, which was a pickup from data and analytics into like liberating that into an intelligent platform that all of our agents are built On. And then also all of our employees use. The second is systems thinking. So we took the traditional COO role and turned that into a chief systems officer role or really redefined both of those roles because all of our client conversations are really about Marketing systems. And so you need to have someone that can come in and understand that and meet them where they are. And then we then think about the marketing flows that will marry to the system that works within some of their tech choices, et cetera, as two examples. ([Time 0:08:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/aa294c87-b0b2-49ff-a333-725b4a13aeb3)) - **Marketing Must Be A System Tied To Business Results** - Marketing must be a system that links brand building to measurable commercial outcomes. - Amy Lanzi says brand fundamentals still matter but must be attached to a data intelligence layer so marketing drives shareholder value. Transcript: Amy Lanzi So brand building and the fundamentals matter more than anything. What you stand for and how you show up, what you're the answer for, especially with LLMs, is really important. And it has to be authentic for the brands to grow. That's still the case. You just can't stop there. It needs to be attached to a system. And ideally, you have some sort of data intelligence layer. So I'm learning more and more about you so that I can then redefine my marketing stories to then reshape how I'm showing up if it's not working, if it's not selling more candy, if it's not Selling more cars. How do we change faster versus a CMO was responsible for building these campaigns and then moving on. And that is not going to be that. That role is a dying role. And it should be. It should be marketing drives commercial value. Marketing drives shareholder value. Nilay Patel Wait, you heard it here first. CMO is a dying role. Amy Lanzi The previous version of the CMO. ([Time 0:11:16](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f8bf476c-d90b-4867-b1f4-ec909e99dded)) - **The Traditional CMO Role Is Dying** - The traditional CMO role is dying unless it transforms into a growth-focused function. - Lanzi argues CMOs must own data layers and full marketing stacks or evolve into Chief Growth Officers to survive. Transcript: Amy Lanzi That role is a dying role. And it should be. It should be marketing drives commercial value. Marketing drives shareholder value. Nilay Patel Wait, you heard it here first. CMO is a dying role. Amy Lanzi The previous version of the CMO. Sure. Because if they're not just like the whole we are in a chaotic world and all the rise, we're in an area of convergence. So if you are a CMO and you're not thinking about your data layer, you're not thinking about your full stack so you can get closer to consumer and get to better creative, better use of creators, You are not going to be doing well in the future. ([Time 0:11:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/867a2325-b030-4b88-9b71-6eb5b732db91)) - **Keep Creative Emotional Not Just Targeted** - Don't equate creative with targeting; keep creative emotional and contextual while measuring performance. - Lanzi rejects 'creative is the new targeting' and says brands must learn what works and adapt without drowning in content volume. Transcript: Amy Lanzi I've never heard this phrase. I don't like it. Yeah, I figured you'd like that. It's terrible, right? It's terrible for our business, creative is targeting. Only because it sounds horrible. Creative is emotional and lovely and magical. How can it be emotional and magical if it's targeting you? Those are two words that don't go together. So to me, the brands that I think are doing really well are deciding not to do that or to do it in a way that feels so contextual. Actually relevant because they know so much about Gen Z on meta that they've decided that they need to do this to be able to drive velocity for a certain type of brand that feels fit for That brand. But I think we are not in a world where we need more content. Does anyone want more content? We are not in a world where we need more content. So that idea, creative targeting, assumes that we have endless amounts of content and impressions as a concept. And I think those are two worlds that still need to be decoupled. But when they're put together, it needs to be in a way that you are constantly learning. ([Time 0:16:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/66b59bc3-9061-48c4-aba3-b31709f305e7)) - **Bundle Capabilities To Create A Measurable Growth System** - Bundle capabilities into connected offerings so clients can measure outcomes across channels. - Acquisitions like Profitero and Influential were integrated into a single identity spine to test if activities actually drove purchases. Transcript: Amy Lanzi How do you win the digital shelf was really the business problem to solve when we made that acquisition. That holds true for the acquisition of influential. How do we create creator as a channel? How do we harness the creator in a way that's also easier for clients? If you don't bring those things into a bundled offer, it's actually really hard for clients because there's seven different versions of Profiteer calling on them. There's seven different influential partners that are those types of partners that are calling on them. And then you're now looking at a distracted set of technology or decentralized. And it's, again, not tied into a single, ideally, data identity spine. So the more you have them connected, the more you can actually say, did this really work? Did it really drive someone to buy more things? ([Time 0:22:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c5e9f7fb-1799-48dc-9378-204f4452bf35)) - **Creators Are A Channel That Needs Identity And Measurement** - Treat creators as a channel that must connect to identity and measurement to prove ROI. - Influential's tech was linked to Digitas' identity layer so they can see who follows whom and pick creators that drive purchase. Transcript: Amy Lanzi Working out very well because we have taken their technology and connected it to our identity so that I can now see you, I can see who you follow, and then I can understand how to get closer To you or have the type of either the right creator choice or the right creative decisions that can enable me to get you to feel an emotional connection to my brand. Creator as a channel is also super efficient. You can also have creators talk in a way that is a little more authentic to the audiences, that a brand maybe can't go out with that message. But it's very complicated. So before we had Influential, it was very hard. Every different brand partner had a different creator solution. And we still are interoperable. We work with other ones that are out there like Creator IQ. But it is easier for us if it's connected into our system because then we can get to see if it actually worked faster. ([Time 0:23:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dd061e31-3cc0-497a-b704-054b53825307)) - **Websites Need To Be Knowledge Hubs For LLMs** - Websites are shifting from generic pages to knowledge assets optimized for LLMs and trust. - Lanzi reports growing briefs to rebuild sites as knowledge hubs that feed LLMs and establish brand legitimacy for transactions. Transcript: Amy Lanzi Interestingly, we are seeing more and more briefs for revising websites. Nilay Patel To do like GEO? Amy Lanzi Yes and no. It's actually pretty interesting. I mean, this is something that, you know, the market talks to you, clients come in, they look for new things. I mean, who would have thought, if you asked me at the end of last year, are you going to do a lot of website work? I would have said no. But we've seen a lot of it because two reasons. One, the future of websites are knowledge sites. Websites were built to contain a bunch of random information that didn't really enable you to show up well on a single response to a prompt. So part of it is that. But also it's like if you're going to be a real brand, and it's a little your legitimacy point, you really need to have your own assets. You want to own that. And eventually, you don't always want to have to funnel everything and package goods through a retail partner. You want to be able to have your own relationship. That doesn't mean everyone's going to buy from that site. But the idea that that is a site that, one, one, does its job of feeding the LLMs, but also builds your brand and gives information. Old websites pretty much weren't really built in a way that makes sense for modern consumers. ([Time 0:27:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b01746e3-64e9-4646-9546-4819ef58db65)) - **Scaled Creators Become Enterprise Brands** - Creator-founded businesses reach a scale where they need traditional agency and operational support. - Lanzi notes scaled creators now brief agencies for media investment and enterprise operations like any other brand. Transcript: Amy Lanzi We, the last time we met or two times ago, I had predicted that there at some point there are going to be these creators that become enterprises, let's say a Mr. Beast that actually needs an agency and it has happened. We are now starting to see briefs from these scaled started as a creator that have now turned into enterprise businesses where they need an agency partner and they also need someone To help them to figure out how to invest their media so they can grow. ([Time 0:40:42](https://share.snipd.com/snip/036a9c52-f633-4b40-90eb-561e9327e7ab)) - **Back Creator Products That Offer Unique Value** - Only back creator product launches that offer a genuinely unique product, not me-too goods. - Lanzi says athletes or creators succeed when the product aligns with their lived expertise, avoiding generic branded knockoffs. Transcript: Amy Lanzi Think a unique product is really important versus a Me Too product that a creator has decided they wanted to sell. So that's important. So I think, you know, you've seen some creators that if they're sports or they're an athlete and they're moving into a space that they feel like this is something that made them a better Athlete and is a unique part of the market. If someone's falling for that, then that makes sense that you would buy into that. ([Time 0:43:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c3d36c37-8f9e-41ef-bde1-9008633ada26)) - **AI Is Misunderstood And Needs Better Expectations** - AI is misunderstood and has a marketing problem around expectations and fear. - Lanzi compares AI to electricity: its value comes from transforming workflows, saving time, and enabling higher-value work, not from hype alone. Transcript: Amy Lanzi Think AI is misunderstood. So it's a marketing problem and the problem it's solving. Meaning AI is, and I'll say that this is one of my favorite people to follow that talks about AI, my friends here are going to know what I'm going to say, is Shelly Palmer. We follow Shelly Palmer. And he talks about, he issued something out about AI being electricity and how electricity is really what fundamentally changed the industrial revolution and how the companies that Were fast, he referenced Ford in this, to really reshape how they work and were able to get to more efficient production as well as speed to market, win. And I think that's the last conversation on AI, which is for me, if you are able to, all of us have too much to do in our computer as in our desktops, think about it. So if you can use AI to do those things and you don't call me because you're like, hey, did you clean out your email box? Like things like that are not necessarily game changers that are advancing all of us. And they also, it's a lot, we have a lot of busy work because of all of the work is distributed everywhere. So the more we can use AI to connect those things and get those things done enables us to do more things like this. So I think that once we use AI to transform the way we work and to be more efficient in how getting to the outcomes, it'll then make time in all of our lives to do the things that are going to Be game changers. So I think it's a marketing problem and a misunderstood problem. ([Time 0:46:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/546b87b2-004a-4a9d-a656-0fea2c2926b1)) - **Automate Product Pages For Personalization At Scale** - Apply AI to everyday, structured creative like product pages to enable personalization at scale. - Lanzi says dynamic product display pages should be automated so content knows prior purchases and becomes magical. Transcript: Amy Lanzi I would say, so for me, everyday creative, I'll give you an example, product display pages that are when you search on Walmart or Amazon and that page that it gives you all this information. That, if it's not done with robots, you're not doing it right. Because that is a, that's like looking at the back of the packaging. And if you really do it right, you are, you can make it dynamic. So it knows what you bought the last time and it can be magical. That's like everyday creative that we need in order to get to personalization. We should be using those tools to be able to do that versus someone making those in an analog world, which is where we all started on that. So for some things, but I think when I think about big creative and storytelling, it still needs humans. ([Time 0:49:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9967d521-6258-440f-bca0-d0d2baae0098)) - **Hyperpersonal Algorithms Threaten Shared Media Fabric** - Algorithm customization risks fragmenting shared reality and community. - Lanzi warns hyper-personalized Instagram UIs undermine common experiences and points to creators and IRL community as counterweights. Transcript: Nilay Patel It was a big buildup to lightning round question. Is that good? It's terrible. Okay. Is there anything we can do about that? Amy Lanzi Not engage in it. Nilay Patel How do you not engage in Instagram? Amy Lanzi If I told you about my, you know, my oldest stepson, who is an absolute, absolutely analog. That's why. I think we are seeing more and more consumers. The more you see that, the more you're like, think about it. If you sat down in front of your TV and it was like, we've made all these decisions about you and you're only allowed to do this based on what it feels like Black Mirror. And if that happens to you, you would say, I'm not going to engage in this anymore. I'm going to go read a book. And I think, and it's also counter to the value prop of, you know, a social platform around community. It was designed to make this connected world. So that's the most disconnected world. People are lonely and isolated. So the more you're just in your doom scroll, it will be terrible. So like we need shared community. I think one of the things that's really interesting and a bright spot about creators is creators show up and they have a community. They listen to their communities. They're not influencing. They're creating, they're talking to their communities in a way. And brands that do this right are really bringing community along. That's why we're seeing the rise of IRL. ([Time 0:54:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/30fe3793-9eca-451c-bff5-a5ca4307f800)) - **Focus On Integrated Marketing Growth Engines** - Focus Digitas on integrated marketing systems that make creative, CRM, media, and commerce work together. - Lanzi says their priority is building growth engines so brands can grow beyond isolated tactics. Transcript: Nilay Patel What should we be looking for this year? Amy Lanzi We are very much focused on marketing systems and how we are helping brands build out their growth engines so that it's not just about your media needs, your creative needs, your CRM Needs. ([Time 0:56:05](https://share.snipd.com/snip/16665993-37b3-442f-a151-8d151c0401b9))