The Grandfather of the Hebrew Bible  🔗 **Source:** [The Grandfather of the Hebrew Bible](https://share.snipd.com/episode/e55af5ee-3c52-4767-92f4-9de58bb1dc26) ## Highlights - **How A Farmer Unearthed Ugarit** - A French farmer in 1929 plowing in French-occupied Syria uncovered the ancient city of Ugarit, revealing a huge archive of cuneiform tablets. - Archaeologists found an unexpected Northwest Semitic alphabetic cuneiform and a library of ritual, myth, and letters that reshaped biblical studies. Transcript: Dan McClellan Okay. So to lay our scene, it's 1929. A French farmer. Well, a farmer is in french occupied syria is plowing a field hits a rock cannot move the rock uncovers what turns out to be the top of an ancient stone doorway or sarcophagus actually I think it is not a doorway but anyway calls some archaeologists and they come out and discover a whole damn city. And we did not know where this city was. It is called Ugarit. We know that now. At the time, they didn't know what city this was. I think there were some scholars who were like, could this be Ugarit? Because this was a city that was mentioned in some other literature. But we found a bunch of texts written in cuneiform. But we didn't know that it was not anything anyone had ever seen before. Dan Beecher Cuneiform is just thumbtack writing. Dan McClellan Well, it's with little wedge-shaped impressions in clay or carved in stone. And people went to work trying to figure out what's going on here. They counted up all of the different signs and they realized there were only 30 of them. Has well over a hundred different signs because they're usually reflections of a syllable. So a consonant plus a vowel, but you can't write in a syllabic script that only has 30 characters. There are a lot more than 30 syllables, which means it has to be alphabetic. So we went, it's alphabetic. It's, uh, it's close the coast of Syria, and it probably dates to between the 1500s and the 1200s BCE. So we said, okay, this must be cuneiform alphabet, and it's probably a Northwest Semitic language. So we went about deciphering it based on the assumption that it was that. And one of the assumptions that helped us is, okay, in Northwest Semitic, the most common letter is the mem. And so we're going to catalog how many times all of the different characters occur and whichever occurs the most, we're just going to say, that's a mem. Dan Beecher Our best guess is mem. Dan McClellan And then we're going to say, where are all the two-letter words that have a mem? Because there are only a handful of words that can be that. And so then we went, the other letter has got to be one of these two or three or four different letters. And basically, we deciphered this Northwest Semitic language, and it is Ugaritic. And we found a bunch of receipts. We found a bunch of letters. ([Time 0:04:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/afa95b1e-f9bb-41ba-bd7c-040af2da9814)) - **Ugaritic Is The Grandfather Of Biblical Hebrew** - Ugaritic turned out to be an alphabetic Northwest Semitic language with ~30 signs, making it closely related to biblical Hebrew. - Scholars deciphered it by frequency analysis (e.g., identifying mem) which unlocked parallels to Hebrew vocabulary and titles. Transcript: Dan McClellan They counted up all of the different signs and they realized there were only 30 of them. Has well over a hundred different signs because they're usually reflections of a syllable. So a consonant plus a vowel, but you can't write in a syllabic script that only has 30 characters. There are a lot more than 30 syllables, which means it has to be alphabetic. So we went, it's alphabetic. It's, uh, it's close the coast of Syria, and it probably dates to between the 1500s and the 1200s BCE. So we said, okay, this must be cuneiform alphabet, and it's probably a Northwest Semitic language. So we went about deciphering it based on the assumption that it was that. And one of the assumptions that helped us is, okay, in Northwest Semitic, the most common letter is the mem. And so we're going to catalog how many times all of the different characters occur and whichever occurs the most, we're just going to say, that's a mem. Dan Beecher Our best guess is mem. Dan McClellan And then we're going to say, where are all the two-letter words that have a mem? Because there are only a handful of words that can be that. And so then we went, the other letter has got to be one of these two or three or four different letters. And basically, we deciphered this Northwest Semitic language, and it is Ugaritic. ([Time 0:06:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/afe93233-d41a-4575-a69d-96467dff1278)) - **El And Baal Mirror Biblical Divine Roles** - The Baal Cycle presents El as an elderly patriarchal high god and Baal as a youthful storm warrior — a configuration that echoes early Israelite divine language. - These parallels show how biblical titles and images (El, storm-god motifs) derive from wider Northwest Semitic religion. Transcript: Dan McClellan It's called the ball cycle because there are three different main kind of storylines. So these are narrative arcs and there are three of them. So similar to how scholars talk about the Abraham cycle or the Jacob cycle in Genesis, because we've got several stories that are going on. Or Wagner's ring cycle. Or, yeah, whatever. And you have three different main ones. They have to do with kingship, and they have to do with Baal, obviously. But one of the cool things is that Baal is not the head of the pantheon. Baal is one of the second-tier deities. The head of the Pantheon is a dude named El. Yeah. Now, we know El. Yeah. Because El's all over the Bible. El is God. El means God, and El is the paterfamilias. Dan Beecher Point of order, El isn't always God in the way that the Bible refers to God, right? Like Elion, like High El is the guy that gives Adonai dominion over Israel. Right. Right. So like, then they become conflated later. Yes. Dan McClellan So did I get that right? Yes. Initially, El and Adonai were distinct deities. Right. And at one point they were conflated and they became the same deity. But when we look at the way that El is represented separate from Adonai. El is elderly. El is benevolent. El has seniority, is basically the ruler over the pantheon, basically a patriarchal high deity. And what did we find in the ball cycle? We found an elderly, patriarchal high deity who ruled over the pantheon. ([Time 0:08:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/22a09ef1-5a71-4a23-a488-b7261574d541)) - **Ugaritic Pantheon Explains Biblical Motifs** - Ugaritic deities like Yam (sea), Mot (death), Athirat (Asherah), and Kothar (craftsman) map onto Hebrew cognates and biblical themes. - Their roles (sea as chaos, storm as life-giver, craftsman as palacemaker) explain why similar motifs recur in Hebrew texts. Transcript: Dan McClellan Yam, who's also referred to as Nahar. And interesting, yam in Hebrew would be sea, the sea, from sea to shining sea. Dan Beecher From yam to shining yam. Dan McClellan Yeah. So that's when you go into the grocery store and you see yams, that's where they come from. Etymologically, it's not important. Anyway. Is it really? No. And then nahar means river okay so nahar is another way to refer to yum so this is basically the waters and it this is this deity's representative of chaotic waters because the sea is dangerous My friends yeah um it was angry that day and and you know you're you never know what you're gonna get when you go out on the sea right and it consumes a lot of lives and then you also have moat And moat literally means death in uh ancient northwest semitic languages so in hebrew as well as in uh yukaritic and so there's a deity named moat and then you have um kotar wahasis isasis Is a crafts person, deity. Dan Beecher Not in the television and film version. Crafty is, the craft station is where you get your food, where you get the red vines. Right, right, right. Not craft services deity. Not craft services. No, no. Crafts person. Right, right. He's a builder of things and a maker of things. Dan McClellan So this is the deity you go to when you need your supplies, when you need weapons or when you need to build a palace or whatever. Dan Beecher Some fancy clubs to beat somebody up? Yeah, yeah. Try this one. Dan McClellan Oh, that didn't work. Okay, try this other one. Dan Beecher He's the equivalent of the guy that made Thor's hammer. Dan McClellan Yeah, yeah, it was Peter Dinklage, wasn't it? Peter Dinklage, that's right. Dan Beecher He can play that guy too. Dan McClellan Yeah, and then Shafash is the Semitic word for sun. So you've got the sun goddess who functions as kind of a mediator deity as well. So these are the main characters, and they are cognate, parallel to what's going on in a lot of the parts of the Bible. So in the first cycle, Yom says, Hey, everybody, I've been doing really well lately. I've been racking up a lot of Ws, and so I want to be king over the divine counsel. And divine counsel is another thing that we see a lot of in the Ugaritic literature that had a lot of scholars going like, oh, this is in the Bible too. Oh, okay. So this is helping us. Just like the frog DNA helped create dinosaurs in that documentary I saw back in the 90s, the Ugaritic literature helped us fill in some of the gaps in the pantheon DNA of the Hebrew Bible. So all the other deities are like, you know, bowing down. We're not worthy. We're not worthy. Except for Baal. And Baal's like, I don't think so. And interestingly, this has a lot to do with geography and environment and stuff like that. Because there are parts of ancient civilization where the river is what makes civilization possible. Mesopotamia, that's the river. Egypt, that's the river. The predictable flooding of these rivers every year allows you to plan agriculture around them, to manipulate the rivers for irrigation, all this kind of stuff. So if you're in Mesopotamia or Egypt, sure, the Nahar, the Yam, is what's responsible for civilization. That is the bedrock of your civilization. So the deity who represents that, yeah, would be the most high. But we're talking about a part of the Levant where it's more rainfall that is what makes things, that makes agriculture possible, particularly when you get into the mountains. Now, Ugarit is kind of close to the coast. It's more coastal than it is mountainous, but these deities are all operating far to the north or to the south in the more mountainous regions where the rain is what you count on. ([Time 0:12:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/87932491-3858-4335-aa17-eaf0db1c8763)) - **Baal Beats Then Drinks The Sea** - The Baal vs Yam combat sequence features Kothar forging named maces for Baal, who then strikes Yam and ultimately 'drinks Prince Yom to the dregs.' - The vivid image of Baal drinking the sea after defeating it is a memorable ancient Near Eastern victory motif. Transcript: Dan McClellan And so Baal goes to Kotar Wahasis and gets some weapons. And I wanted to read just some of that, just so you can get a sense for what this language is like. And it's very fragmentary. This is one of the most frustrating parts of this. There are a lot of lacunae. It's, you know, you get a sentence or two and then a gap of maybe a letter or two or maybe 50 lines. Dan Beecher We should make it clear. So what we have, where we're getting this is from clay tablets. Yes. The letters were impressed into the clay and then they were fired. And so that's why they've survived this long. But if the tablets are broken and you got a chunk missing or whatever, then what are you going to do? You just fill it in as best you can. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listen, you've heard us talk a lot about BetterHelp. They've been one of our trusted sponsors for a long time, but I don't know that we've ever really talked about how much people love this service when they use it. You can check it out for yourself at betterhelp.com/reviews. But man, it is interesting to see how many customers are truly thrilled by what they've able to accomplish with BetterHelp and by how BetterHelp's service has been useful to them. The reviews are updated every day with hundreds of people saying how much they love BetterHelp and how helpful it's been to them. Dan McClellan More than 6 million people have used BetterHelp globally and the consistent feedback from real users makes it easy to see why so many people continue to choose BetterHelp. Their therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience. They hold all the requisite education, training, and certification across a range of mental health specialties. BetterHelp makes it easy to get started. And as always, if you don't like the therapist that has been matched to you, you can always change without any additional cost. Just answer a few questions, get matched with a therapist based on your needs and switch at any time if it's not the right fit. Dan Beecher See the reviews, see what stands out and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com/Dogma. That's BetterHelp.com/Dogma. You know, there are certain things in our lives that we don't want transparency in, like your swimsuit or your search history. But when it comes to your wireless bill, you want the transparency. That's why Mint Mobile's wireless plans have no gimmicks, no gotchas, just high speed data and reliable coverage on T-Mobile's 5G network. And right now, all the plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. Dan McClellan Yeah, Mint Mobile took what's wrong with wireless and made it right with premium wireless for just 15 bucks a month. And all of these plans come with high speed data and unlimited talk and text delivered on the nation's largest 5G network. You can choose from three, six or 12 month plans and you can say goodbye to a monthly bill. To get your new wireless plan for just 15 bucks a month, go to mintmobile.com/That's mintmobile.com/dogma. Dan Beecher Cut your wireless bill to $15 a month at mintmobile.com/dogma. That's it. There is no catch. Upfront payment of $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only, greater than 50 gigabytes may slow when network is busy, includes up to 20 gigabytes hotspot. Capable device required, availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com. Dan McClellan So I'm reading in from religious text from Ugarit, which is Nicholas Wyatt's translation of all these texts, which includes the ball cycle and a bunch of other texts. Dan Beecher It's funny because the cover of the book just says Wyatt. And I was like, Ron Wyatt? It's not Ron. Dan McClellan But Nick was one of the readers for my doctoral dissertation. So I've always been a fan of Nick. So there's a part where Baal is getting angry. It says, I shall knock down his houses into the underworld, will fall my strength, and into the dust my power. From his mouth his speech barely went forth, from his lips his word, and he gave forth his voice in groaning beneath the throne of Prince Yam. So Baal is, it's not looking good for Baal, but then Kothar, this translation says, Kothar and Hasis, and that's what the W means in Ugaritic, spoke. Indeed, I say to you, O Prince Baal, I repeat, O charioteer of the clouds. And by the way, that's a title that Adonai has in the Hebrew Bible. Yes. Okay. Yes. Chariteer of the clouds. Rider of the clouds. Yeah. Because the storm deity goes, yeah, and rides the clouds around. Now your foe, Baal. Now your foe, you must smite. Now you must destroy your adversary. Take your everlasting kingdom, your eternal dominion. Kothar fashioned two maces, and he pronounced their names. You, your name is Expeller. Expeller, expel Yom, expel Yom from his throne. Throne, Nahar, from the siege of his dominion. You must leap from the hand of Baal like a falcon from his fingers. Strike the shoulders of Prince Yom, the chest of ruler Nahar. The mace leapt from the hand of Baal like a falcon from his fingers. It struck the shoulders of Prince Nam, the chest of ruler Nahar. But Yam was strong. He did not flinch. His joints did not tremble. His visage was not discomposed. Kothar fashioned two maces, and he pronounced their names. You, your name is Aldriver. Aldriver, drive Yom away. Drive Yom from his throne. Nahar, from the siege of his dominion. You must leap from the hand of Baal like a falcon from his fingers. Strike the skull of Prince Yom, the brow of ruler Nahar. Let Yom collapse in a heap. Let him fall to the ground. Then the mace leapt from the hand of Baal like a falcon from his fingers. It struck the skull of Prince Yom, the brow of ruler Nahar. Yom collapsed in a heap. He fell to the ground. His joints trembled and his visage was discomposed. Baal gathered up and drank Prince Yom to the dregs. ([Time 0:18:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ba3912fe-d541-4f2f-a9f7-961381ae80c8)) - **Genesis Reworks Ancient Chaos Combat Language** - The Baal Cycle's sea‑defeat and creation echoes other ANE myths (e.g., Marduk vs Tiamat) and connects to Genesis imagery like tehom. - This shows Genesis adapts older chaos‑combat language but recasts cosmic waters as inert tehom. Transcript: Dan McClellan Marduk defeats Tiamat, who is also representative of the chaotic waters of the sea. But when Marduk defeats Tiamat, Marduk splits Tiamat's body into two. And the one half becomes the waters of the heavens, and the other half becomes the earth, which should sound familiar to some folks. If you've read Genesis chapter 1, you may recognize that. Depths are referred to as tehom, which is the Hebrew cognate term for tiamat. Only it's not this chaotic deity. It's now just inert water. But it's still split. The waters above, the waters beneath to facilitate the creation of the earth. ([Time 0:25:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f1740cdb-2145-47f1-ae3d-a0e48926b877)) - **Baal's Death And Rescue Explains Droughts** - After Baal wins a palace and rules (bringing rain), Mot (Death) kills him and the land goes barren; Anat dismembers Mot and Baal returns. - The narrative links deity fate to seasonal/agricultural cycles and ritual mourning by El. Transcript: Dan McClellan We got a problem, though. Somebody else shows up. Moat, the death, basically sends Baal an invitation. And this is kind of like in the movies where death, you get a note from death. It's like, we have an appointment. That means you're going to die. And so when you get an invitation from Moat, that means you're going to die. Oh, and something fascinating about the Ugaritic literature is you've got a bunch of angels running around. Only in the Ugaritic literature, the angels don't communicate between gods and humans. The angels communicate between gods and gods. Right. You send divine messengers to other gods. Right. Yeah. So we have kind of a parallel pantheon, but in the Bible, it has been renegotiated. It has evolved to serve different functions. Yeah. Because – go ahead. Dan Beecher Yeah, it's – that part is very interesting, but I'm trying to speed us up a little bit because we've got to get through this. Dan McClellan Okay, so anyway, Moat is characterized by having this great maw that just swallows people whole. Death swallows you whole. And Ball doesn't win this fight. Yeah, he dies. Yep, goes into the underworld, disappears, rain stops, the earth becomes barren, very much like the droughts that we have in the Hebrew Bible that are Adonai's responsibility. El is mourning, tears his clothes, throws dust on himself. He's a cutter, cuts his skin. This is kind of conventional mourning behavior, rituals. And Anat is not going to take it. And so searches for Baal. Anat is the one who ultimately— Anat is—like in the Ugaritic pantheon, the people you were most scared of were the women. The men were, you know, they were warriors, sure, but when Anat was coming at you, that was trouble. Dan Beecher Yeah, Anat seems, like, vicious. Anat seems terrifying. Dan McClellan Yeah. Narratives where where a knot has like the hands of her fallen enemies like uh strewn together to create like a sash or or they're they're like uh hanging off of her back just kind of dangling There as a trophy accessory yeah so like she's vicious but um hacks Moat to pieces. And then death itself is treated like harvested grain. She winnows him, burns him, grinds him, scatters him in the fields. Because that is the ultimate flex to not just defeat him, but do all that other crap. And Baal comes back, rain returns, life returns. ([Time 0:29:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2de4f371-66e4-4633-8197-562ed5ea7d6d)) - **Ugarit Predates Israel And Shapes The Bible** - Ugaritic literature predates and directly informs Israelite religion; Ugarit's fall (Late Bronze Age collapse) occurs just before earliest references to Israel. - Studying Ugaritic is essential to understanding the linguistic and mythic bedrock of biblical Hebrew. Transcript: Dan McClellan Everything in fact it probably when Ugarit gets destroyed in the late bronze age collapse and Eric Klein's 1177 BC is far and away the best discussion of that if you want a book on the late Bronze Age collapse, that's what you should check out. But that is probably the demise of Ugarit. Most of these texts were written in the 13th or 14th centuries BCE. Our earliest reference of any kind whatsoever to any people group known as Israel dates to about 1208 BCE, so right about the time that—right just before Ugarit's going to fall. So yeah, everything that's written in the Bible is coming from a couple hundred years after the fall of Ugarit, where the language has changed a little bit more. We've lost case endings and stuff like that. So it's basically taking the pieces of that. The Ugaritic literature is basically the grandfather of biblical Hebrew. ([Time 0:37:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f4d01dbe-644d-4139-b9e2-a35c8c9e1ef8)) - **Zion Began As A Rocky Stronghold** - Zion (Hebrew Tzion) likely started as a rocky, dry stronghold or acropolis—possibly pre-Israelite—and the name probably relates to 'dry.' - In 2 Samuel 5 Zion is the mtsudat zion 'stronghold of Zion' which becomes the City of David. Transcript: Dan Beecher So the history's mystery is the word Zion or the concept of Zion or whatever Zion is. Yes. So let's start by, since I said we would, let's start by talking about how it is pronounced. What is this word? Dan McClellan So it's a Hebrew word. In Hebrew, it's spelled Sadiq Yod Vav Nun, so it would be pronounced Tzion in Hebrew. Okay. So we're all wrong. Most people are not going to say Tzion. We're going to Tzion National Park down in southern Utah. So in transliteration, we usually, you can say Zion, you can say Zion. You can say whatever you want. Yeah. Dan Beecher If you're a Wachowski, it's going to be Zion. If you're a Utahan, it's going to be Zion. Yeah. Dan McClellan But it's, you know, there's, again, we're not prescriptivists on the Data Over Dogma podcast. Not at all. Because we're adults. So, but the— I'm not sure about that. It's debated among scholars, yes. So—but this is a word that is used—it's actually used a few different ways. Okay, yeah. And within the Latter-day Saint tradition, it's used even a few more different ways. Even differenter ways. Yes. But what I wanted to do is go back to the earliest uses and see what we could figure out there and go back to etymology and stuff like that. And there's not really a universally agreed upon etymology, but it probably has something to do with being dry. It probably comes from a root that has reference to being dry, but is being used to refer to a place that is like a rocky outcropping that is used for protection. Okay. And one of the probably- Like a stronghold sort of thing? Kind of. Okay. Because we're getting a little—we're conflating some different terms. Because the first—one of the earliest references to Zion is from 2 Samuel 5. And there we have—this is where the Jebusites are occupying Jerusalem, and David is going to fight up against them. And they do okay, but then verse 7 says, nevertheless, David took the mtsudat zion, the stronghold of Zion, and then it says, he ir dawid, or that is the city of David. And so the city of David is the new name for the stronghold of Zion. And this was probably the name that was given to the location that is to be identified either with the entire little outcropping. So if you're looking at a satellite photo of Jerusalem, the city of David is kind of the Florida of the Temple Mount. It kind of pokes down. There's a ridge. Dan Beecher A dangling appendage, is that what you're saying? Dan McClellan That comes down from the kind of southeastern side of the Temple Mount, and that is known as the city of David. And so Zion probably originally referred to, if not that whole thing, maybe kind of a rocky outcropping, an acropolis that was at one point a part of that dangling participle. Probably the stronghold of Zion. It probably comes from something associated with dryness, where it refers to something that is all rock instead of having any kind of soil and things on it. But it became associated with a place of protection. You could climb up on top of this. ([Time 0:38:35](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8d6afeeb-6669-4d8e-994d-95b782cb2064)) - **How Zion Shifted From Place To Promise** - Zion evolved from a physical stronghold to God's dwelling, then to a symbol of protection and later a portable, eschatological ideal after exile. - Exile forced Zion theology to shift from territorial security to symbolic hope and cosmic restoration. Transcript: Dan McClellan But Zion becomes shorthand for the place where Adonai dwells. And so you begin to see it used that way as kind of a way to refer to the presence of God. And this leads to what some people have called Zion theology, which is this idea that because God dwells there, Zion is special. It's protected. It's not going to be harmed. And you see this in some of the Psalms, maybe in Isaiah, Jerusalem cannot fall. And, you know, it's an idea that is kind of mocked in public discourse today, this idea that, you know, this ship is unsinkable kind of stuff. Right, yeah. Dan Beecher Famously, Jerusalem kind of fell a time or two. Yes. Dan McClellan Yeah, every time somebody's like, God is with us, we cannot be defeated, that is usually the sign for somebody to be defeated. Somebody's going to be playing taps pretty soon. Dan Beecher Yes, they're going to go down with the ship. Dan McClellan Like, what's her name, Dido? Who did not go down. No, she did go down with the ship. Dang it. Screwed that one up. But other 90s, other late Gen Xers or elder millennials will know what I was trying to get at. But then the exile obviously happened, and so Zion theology gets busted, which doesn't mean, okay, we throw it out the window, we get rid of it entirely. It means we renegotiate it. Right. We rewired it. Ha ha i don't even know how the uh the tim the tool man taylor grunts work anymore but um all your references so uh so contemporary so so hip and now hey if anybody's topical it's it's me that's Right so yeah i was gonna make some uhyou might be a redneck jokes, too, but just because, you know, that's what everybody's talking about these days. So you have this—when you have a temple that God inhabits, and God is the highest God, if that temple falls, you've got to rationalize how that happens. And usually you've got a few options. One option is to say, well, our God lost. Usually you don't like that option. It's less appealing for sure. Yes. Yes. Another option is to say, okay, God is upset with us and God abandoned the temple. And without that protection, then it was just a regular old building, and you can knock it over. So that's generally what you do. And then in the Hebrew Bible, they went a step further, where they were like, it's not just that God abandoned it and enemies destroyed it, it's that God brought the enemies in to destroy It. It was God's plan all along. Right. But because God temporarily abandoned Zion, the Zion theology has to become more symbolic. Dan Beecher It has to be updated, yeah. Dan McClellan Yeah, it has to be something that we are yearning for, a return to innocence, just like the commercials that you would hear in your dreams because you fell asleep on the couch with the TV on. And then you had some Enya going when you woke up. But when the Second Temple is being built, Zion kind of expands its scope. It now becomes a lot more stuff. And today Mount Zion is actually the name of one of the hills in Jerusalem. Oh, okay. One to the west a little bit, which is kind of the hill that overlooks the western side of the Valley of Hinnom. Dan Beecher What's the rocky outcrop situation there? Dan McClellan It's not incredibly rocky, but one of the very interesting features, if it becomes possible to return to this part of the world recreationally, at some point in the future, there are Some stone steps going up Mount Zion that have been uncovered that have been dated to the first century CE. And so a lot of scholars would suggest that if Jesus was brought to Caiaphas, whose palace might have been located on Mount Zion, that those steps, he would have been dragged up those Steps. So that's always a fun place to visit. If you happen to be in the area right now, don't be in the area. Bad things happening. But Zion becomes increasingly symbolic. The whole world could be Zion because God's presence is there. Within the Latter-day Saint tradition, you have this idea that Zion is the pure in heart. So wherever the pure in heart will be, there Zion is. Yeah. Dan Beecher There's a whole history with the Latter-day Saint tradition of Zion being Jackson County, Missouri, and then not that anymore. I mean, it's the same thing. There was, like, literally, that's interesting that it's so parallel to, you know, there was an exile. The Mormons were exiled from Missouri. They were literally given the boot. And then suddenly the concept of Zion became far more portable. Dan McClellan A lot more flexible and a lot more portable, yeah. And then it came here to Salt Lake. So that's nice. But you have this, throughout a lot of what's going on in the Bible, you have this hope of restoration, of return. And Zion is one of the main foci of that idea, where Zion is now this cosmic kind of God's presence city, the new Jerusalem, all this kind of stuff. We want to return to the way things were, and that will be our ultimate return to Zion. So it basically is a specific location that became associated with God's presence, began to spread out a little bit. Uh-oh, there's an exile. Now, if we want to maintain this concept, it's got to be made a little more mobile, a little more flexible. We've got to renegotiate what we understand Zion to be. It becomes more symbolic. It becomes a little more eschatological. It becomes a little more cosmic. ([Time 0:50:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2831fc1d-ab1f-4e71-b3ed-1fa04c8fde4a)) - **Don't Conflate Zionism With All Jewish Identity** - Avoid using 'Zionism' or labeling groups carelessly unless you understand the political and religious nuances; it's not synonymous with Judaism. - Dan McClellan warns Christian Zionism is harmful because it instrumentalizes Jewish people for eschatological goals. Transcript: Dan McClellan I would feel more comfortable. I think we ought to avoid it largely because I would feel more comfortable talking about problems with Christian Zionism, particularly among evangelicals. I am well out of my lane to talk about Zionism within Judaism, although I would say the notion that anti-Zionism is fundamentally anti-Semitic is phenomenally problematic because It is trying to use a political ideology as a proxy for a very broad and diverse group of people. And this gets to kind of the personification of Zion and its use as metonymy for all the people and all that kind of stuff. So usually Zionism these days is collecting a set of positions regarding the relationship geopolitically of the nation of Israel to the other nations around it, which is not about The Jewish people, qua people, so much as it is about political concerns. And so I would just suggest that Christian Zionists just leave it alone. Christian Zionism is incredibly harmful, and in my opinion also itself rather anti-Semitic, because it's using folks who are committed to this particular political ideology as Props, basically. You're pawns in our eschatological game, and we support you because we know what's coming next. And those Jewish folks don't come out on the winning end of that event. So I think Christian Zionism is phenomenally problematic, and that's the only one I feel at all qualified to speak on. ([Time 1:01:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9c25d317-8d08-4217-a76a-523846539db4)) - **NT Reuses Zion As Messianic And Heavenly Image** - New Testament writers reuse Zion imagery to portray Jesus, the heavenly Jerusalem, and eschatological salvation across Matthew, Romans, Hebrews, Peter, and Revelation. - Examples include 'daughter of Zion' in the entry narratives and 'out of Zion will come deliverer' in Romans and Revelation's lamb on Mount Zion. Transcript: Dan McClellan Yeah. Yeah, we do have Zion comes up a couple of times. I think there's a reference to Mount Zion, at least, in the New Testament. Let me do a quick search. I got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven occurrences of Zion in the New Testament. Okay. Matthew 21, 15, where we're quoting the prophecy of the king riding in on the donkey, tell the daughter of Zion, look, your king is coming to you. Okay. John 12, 15, same thing. Don't be afraid, daughter of Zion, look, your king is coming, sitting on a donkey's colt. Romans 9, 33, as it is written, see, I am laying in Zion a stone that will make people stumble, a rock that will make them fall. So we've got another quotation. Romans 11.26, and in this way all Israel will be saved. As it is written, out of Zion will come deliverer, the deliverer. I assume that's supposed to say. Yes, the deliverer. Hebrews 12.22, you have come to mount zion and to the city of the living god the heavenly jerusalem and to innumerable angels in festal gathering uh first peter again we're quoting scripture 2 6 see i am laying in zion a stone a cornerstone and then revelation 14 1 then i looked and there was the lamb standing on Mount Zion. ([Time 1:05:01](https://share.snipd.com/snip/35a5f679-b829-4186-9787-cf62533b9c1c))