The Price of Creativity  ## Metadata - Author: [[TED Radio Hour]] - Full Title: The Price of Creativity - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/ce7eb0c6-350c-43b8-afc8-6f5b5b26ddd5 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Creativity Was Invented As Policy** - Creativity as a concept was actively shaped post-WWII to promote individualism and problem-solving. - That public investment seeded today's widespread emphasis on creative culture. Transcript: Yancey Strickler Word like creativity feels eternal, as natural as air. It's like the base level of all of life. Manoush Zomorodi This is entrepreneur, musician, and writer Yancey Strickler. He's a sort of creativity history buff. Yancey Strickler Well, a common mistake we all make is assuming that the world around us has always been this way. And this is even the case when it comes to ideas that are as bedrock as art and creativity. Manoush Zomorodi But in the 1940s, the U.S. Government started taking these fields very seriously. Yancey Strickler And in part from Department of Defense research and funding. Post-World War II, people were worried about American society becoming too homogenous. And the U.S. Was worried about facing off against the Soviet Union. And so they needed individuality to contend with this totalitarian society. The things about us are made to express our own free spirits and desires. So the Defense Department and some social scientists began to study this question of what to do about it. What do we do about this issue of conformity? On come the developments of ideas in pace with the emphatic decisions of the American people as to what they want. This is when there were more white-collar workers than blue-collar workers for the first time. And they ended up proposing a concept of something called creativity, which they discovered after studying artists and engineers, in particular engineers who pulled all-nighters, And they wanted to understand what made them work, what motivated them. Manoush Zomorodi To do that, they gave them everything from Warshaw tests to the Myers-Briggs personality test. Yancey Strickler And they found that these people had this internal drive to make things better. They're just driven in that way. So they began to theorize that what if they could teach people to develop the same skill? They could teach people this notion of creativity. Then creativity would be this democratic form of genius that anyone could access. Manoush Zomorodi From there, the push for creative thinking took off. A 1958 bill promoted science and technology education specifically to get kids to think differently in the name of national defense. Yancey Strickler In the 60s, creative writing began to enter American schools, brainstorming, open-ended thinking sort of practices. And these were intentionally created as a way to teach children how to be creative. Developing creativity was seen as a strategic goal of America. That has continued ever since, to where someone like me, I think of myself as a second-generation creative American, where I went to public schools, where I was taught all of these things. And creativity is very much a deep part of my life. Manoush Zomorodi Much of this history is chronicled in the 2023 book The Cult of Creativity by Samuel L. Franklin. Yancey Strickler It was very strange to think that there was this origin to creativity, that it had this military industrial purpose that was made to make people more productive and to make things that Were more impactful. But the more I sat with it, the more I actually think it's beautiful that this is something that originated through a social scientist. That people had the sensitivity to ask and to study how other people stayed connected and loved what they did. To ask what makes those distinct voices distinct. How could we have more of them? How could we teach that in this phrase of a democratic form of genius? And so when I look at the world now where more kids want to be creators than anything else, where creative expression and culture are at the center of really everything in America, it's Like how politics works, how the economy works, how everything works. ([Time 0:01:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6c1bcab6-c1be-49c1-8dd7-551f1278f8c8)) - **Concert Idea Sparked Kickstarter** - Perry Chen pitched pre-selling tickets for a concert and only held the show if it sold out. - That simple experiment helped inspire Kickstarter's crowdfunding model. Transcript: Manoush Zomorodi In the early 2000s, he was living in New York, working as a music critic and running a tiny record label, when he met a guy named Perry Chen. Yancey Strickler Like me, he was a creative person always trying to get projects off the ground. And he had wanted to throw a concert but didn't have the money to do it and thought, what if he could just propose the idea for the concert online? People could pre-purchase tickets and the show would only happen if it sold out. And if there wasn't enough interest, no big deal. He wouldn't be out the money and the people together could decide. And this idea really resonated with me because at the time, as a creative person, to get support for your projects, you had to go pitch like a proper company of some kind or some board of Approval that you needed. There wasn't that direct path where you could just go out into the world with your own ideas. And the idea of letting us as fans have a voice in what we wanted to see and the idea that we as artists and creative people wouldn't need to ask for one person's permission, but instead Convince people of merit of our vision, that just seemed way more fun and more interesting. Manoush Zomorodi It ended up taking them, plus a third co-founder, years to create a platform that could let people crowdfund their projects. They called their site Kickstarter. Yancey Strickler In 2009, Kickstarter went live and the very first week a project was successfully funded and it wasn't an overnight success but amazingly for us from the moment the site was there people Got it people understood what it was there for they they saw it as a type of a game it had an energy it like everything we could have dreamed really And for creative people, it just dramatically Opened the doors to where no longer were we all lining up in front of these singular gatekeepers, but instead we really had the freedom to go out the way we wanted with our own projects And ideas. And it has just opened the floodgates to now, you know, a much bigger world that we call creator economy and a whole bunch of other stuff. ([Time 0:08:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d57443b3-72bc-4d36-ab62-2250b3ff1e5d)) - **Platforms Shifted Power To Creators** - Kickstarter shifted power from gatekeepers to individual creators and fans. - That change unlocked a flood of creative projects and direct audience support. Transcript: Yancey Strickler That project was really one of the first that showed what the internet could do, that really put a lot of trust and a lot of power in the hands of individuals versus the institutions and, You know, exceeded all of our expectations, but really came from our own experiences as creative people ourselves. Manoush Zomorodi Musicians got their albums funded by groups of friends. Authors crowdfunded their new novels. Even huge companies like Peloton and Allbirds got their start on Kickstarter. Yancey Strickler At this point, I think it's $9 billion or something like that that's changed hands through the platform. Manoush Zomorodi In 2017, Yancey stepped down as CEO. Yancey Strickler And I returned to being a full-time writer, author. I wrote a book and was leading a community and was doing everything I thought I wanted and had thousands of people gathered around ideas I was really passionate about. Manoush Zomorodi But he struggled to figure out how to make this group of creative people who were making books and all kinds of other creative products financially viable. He didn't want to start a nonprofit or another big company. Yancey Strickler I didn't want to be at the top of a pyramid. I wanted to be a part of something with other people. And I really struggled to see how to do that. How do I, as a creative person, have peers? ([Time 0:10:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/30dec2d9-a9b0-4fd7-bae2-07212876a01e)) - **Output Outpaces Economic Support** - The creator economy scales output but lacks stable support systems and income for most creators. - High demand for content coexists with few sustainable pathways to pay creators fairly. Transcript: Speaker 3 You need LinkedIn ads. You can target your buyers by job title, company, role, seniority, and skills. All the professionals you need to reach in one place. Get a $250 credit on your next campaign so you can try it yourself. Just go to linkedin.com/nprpod. That's linkedin.com/nprpod. Terms and conditions apply. Only on LinkedIn ads. Manoush Zomorodi This message comes from AT&T. There's nothing like knowing someone's in your corner, especially when it really counts. Like when your neighbor shovels your driveway. After a snowstorm or your friend saves you the last slice of pizza. AT&T has connectivity you can depend on or they'll proactively make it right. That's the AT&T guarantee. Terms and conditions apply. Visit att.com/guarantee to learn more. AT&T connecting changes everything. Speaker 3 This message comes from NPR sponsor U.S. Bank. With U.S. Bank Business Essentials, you get more than just a bank. You get a dedicated partner that provides you a powerful combo of checking and card payment processing with quick access to the money you've earned, proving that there is nothing as Powerful as the power of us. Visit usbank.com today to learn more. Member FDIC. Copyright 2025 U.S. Bank. Support for NPR and the following message come from Indeed. Hiring? Do it the right way with Indeed's Sponsored Jobs. Claim a $75 Sponsored Job Credit to get your jobs more visibility at indeed.com/NPR. Terms and conditions apply. Manoush Zomorodi This message comes from Charles Schwab. When it comes to managing your wealth, Schwab gives you more choices, like full-service wealth management and advice when you need it. You can also invest on your own and trade on Think or Swim. Visit schwab.com to learn more. It's the TED Radio Hour from NPR. I'm Manoush Zomorodi. On the show today, The Creator Economy, with writer and entrepreneur Yancey Strickler. So earlier, Yancey explained the origins of how we think of creativity today, and why more and more people are trying to turn their creative pursuits into a source of income. Yancey Strickler I'm creating a super cool piece of like brutalist inspired wall art. From artists and musicians. Manoush Zomorodi I wrote a song and I'm posting it. To chefs. Here's everything I made for an eight person birthday. To fashion influencers. Let me teach you how to style what you already have. At the beginning of every week. Social media has turned creative expression into a whole new industry. Here's how I made about $7,000 going live on TikTok for one month. We talked to one content creator named Shivani Shah. She's a professional dancer who started posting videos during the pandemic. I never really imagined it kind of from the lens of, oh, I'm creating content. Yancey Strickler It was just, oh, I'm doing this thing that, you know, I'm stuck at home in COVID. I'm bored. I'm just going to do this thing and post it. Manoush Zomorodi But her videos caught people's attention, so she started collaborating with other dancers online. Yancey Strickler It was just crazy because I was like, wow, all these people, like, really love what I'm doing and want to do it too. Manoush Zomorodi And Shivani started to make money from the platforms and advertising. She built a brand with another dancer. They posted routines together, had in-person classes, even went on tour. Hi everyone, we are They Seafuse. I'm Shivani and this is Ishani. And we both started shuffling in the summer of 2020. Now to keep the money coming in, Shivani has to keep posting and posting. Yeah, I mean, when you start pursuing your creative hobby full-time, sometimes you have to do work that you're not that excited by just to get, like, the paycheck from it. Yancey Strickler And other times, the work you really want to pour into that may require more time and creativity isn't the work that's also paying you. Manoush Zomorodi Today, Shivani goes back and forth between full-time content creation and working in the corporate world so that she can have health insurance. It's a tenuous mix because it's not easy out there. As of 2023, only 4% of content creators made more than $100,000 per year, according to Goldman Sachs. Most of those earnings come from brand deals or pitching products. Other revenue comes from subscriptions or donations. But the creator economy is projected to grow to a $480 billion industry in the next few years. And Yancey Strickler believes it should just be easier for more people to take part in it. ([Time 0:13:38](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7c7f0552-601a-48a8-98ef-2c7e98c8054f)) - **Pandemic Posting Became A Career** - Dancer Shivani Shah began posting during the pandemic and turned viral videos into classes and tours. - She alternates between content creation and corporate work to maintain benefits like health insurance. Transcript: Manoush Zomorodi She's a professional dancer who started posting videos during the pandemic. I never really imagined it kind of from the lens of, oh, I'm creating content. Yancey Strickler It was just, oh, I'm doing this thing that, you know, I'm stuck at home in COVID. I'm bored. I'm just going to do this thing and post it. Manoush Zomorodi But her videos caught people's attention, so she started collaborating with other dancers online. Yancey Strickler It was just crazy because I was like, wow, all these people, like, really love what I'm doing and want to do it too. Manoush Zomorodi And Shivani started to make money from the platforms and advertising. She built a brand with another dancer. They posted routines together, had in-person classes, even went on tour. Hi everyone, we are They Seafuse. I'm Shivani and this is Ishani. And we both started shuffling in the summer of 2020. Now to keep the money coming in, Shivani has to keep posting and posting. Yeah, I mean, when you start pursuing your creative hobby full-time, sometimes you have to do work that you're not that excited by just to get, like, the paycheck from it. Yancey Strickler And other times, the work you really want to pour into that may require more time and creativity isn't the work that's also paying you. Manoush Zomorodi Today, Shivani goes back and forth between full-time content creation and working in the corporate world so that she can have health insurance. It's a tenuous mix because it's not easy out there. ([Time 0:16:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2ccf6a97-b449-4245-a29f-001aabde8a2f)) - **Formalize Creative Workflows** - Build legal and organizational structures to capture value and reduce burnout. - Treat creative work as small businesses requiring systems for marketing, operations, and rights. Transcript: Manoush Zomorodi But I guess what's different now is that we see it as a potential profession, whereas we used to call that hobbies, right? Like, is that what's changing in terms of this idea that like, I love doing this and guess what? Maybe I can get paid for it too. Absolutely. Yancey Strickler You know, the internet has made it so that we can turn our side hustles into forms of income. We can turn them into jobs. The challenge is that it's like the art, the act of being an artist in a world like this is not as simple as it used to be, you know, because now you have many jobs. You're the artist, you're the marketer, you're the community manager, you're the order fulfiller, you know, you're all of these things because we're ultimately running these small Businesses around our hobbies. And this is where you see a lot of stats about burnout being something that's quite common, even for people who are very successful at this, because it is very much a grind. ([Time 0:20:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9cf8cbb9-32b0-4df4-b3b5-9f9e377e216c)) - **Legal Forms Shape Creative Value** - Existing entity types (LLC, S-Corp) poorly fit collective creative practices and shared ownership. - A new legal form could validate creative labor and enable mixed funding and shared upside. Transcript: Manoush Zomorodi He's working on creating a new legal structure to offer artists protection and stability. He calls it an artist corporation or A-corp. That's right. Yancey Strickler Yeah. And an artist corporation or an A-corp is a proposal for a new legal type, a new corporate type that would be established through a new law, a law established at the state level. And the goal of an artist corporation would be to make a entity that represents creative businesses. Manoush Zomorodi Right now, most of those businesses opt to be either an LLC or S-Corp. Yancey Strickler LLC is the most basic legal structure. It's a legal shield over the project, gives you some tax benefits. It doesn't have upside, doesn't have easy ownership sharing exactly, but it's sort of the base level most people use. It's also not the friendliest to use. But what an A-Corp does, A-Corp is designed from the ground up for artists and creative people. So to qualify for an A-Corp, you have to be making a creative output of some type. The project must be at least 51% owned and controlled by artists and creators, not outside investors. So you're pre-qualifying in. And as an A, you can raise money from both for-profit sources as well as receive non-profit sources of funds. But overall, we're trying to create a structure that validates creative work and that lets creative people participate in capitalism, have entities, be a real player the way that Other economic players are in our culture today. And we think the A-Corp does that. ([Time 0:21:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4c128610-0aa5-4496-a04d-938582c47e01)) - **Use Shared Entities To Preserve Ownership** - Use collective structures to own IP, pool revenue, and automate equitable payouts. - Issue shares to investors instead of selling rights to preserve artist ownership and upside. Transcript: Yancey Strickler You could think of an A-Corp as like a company, but built for how creative people work. And we can imagine a band starts, and right from the beginning, they have an A-corp. So they're not just five individuals, they're people who collectively own an organization that has the power to own their intellectual property, their gear, their business. As they start to get paid, that money can automatically flow to each of the members according to pre-set amounts, and they could even set aside money to be saved for future projects in A treasury or pooling together with other artist corporations to get better health care or other benefits. As an artist corporation, they would also be able to receive both commercial revenue as well as non-profit sources of funding. And if a label or a bigger commercial entity came along, rather than just selling the rights to their intellectual property, which has been customary until now, as an artist corporation, They can issue shares. So instead, that entity would make an investment in the artist corporation, allowing it to be valued more highly and everyone to benefit if things went well. Manoush Zomorodi The music industry is a particularly interesting example because it used to be the case that a popular band could make a lot of money from selling records, but then, of course, the internet Came along, and now with streaming platforms, it is much harder for artists to make as much money, any money. So the old system no longer works. But we haven't figured out a new one? Yancey Strickler We're definitely in the bardo. You know, we, there is a system that drove the 20th century of creative production that is still in power because it holds the ownership rights to all of that work. But definitely its tools are less relevant today than they've been in the past. You know, what's interesting is that, say, in music, music is a great case. If a band gets signed traditionally, you know, they're given a standard record deal, which in all likelihood leaves the label owning the publishing and masters of their work. You know, they get some cut of it. They get a royalty. They start some LLC with evidence from their manager, and maybe that's set up by someone else. And they end up not owning their actual work. They're getting paid out after all these deductions that they don't understand. And they're a part of a system where they have no agency whatsoever. And it's wild. Like for the capital sources of culture today, for labels and studios, these bigger entities, artists are essentially service providers who create assets that these larger entities Acquire and capitalize on. We're in a weird spot in the industry where it's capitalism for me, but not for thee, not for the artist. Manoush Zomorodi So how would it work if a band created an A Corp? How would the money get back to them should they have some success? Yancey Strickler Well, so as an A Corp, they could pre-register to say, okay, listen, our A owns the IP of music that we create. And so if a label wants to work with us, great. Well, they can negotiate with us either an investment for which they get the right to distribute this work. Or, you know, right now labels are dealing with individual artists who know that this is their only chance to make it, and they're probably going to sign anything in front of them. But if you look at the way these same entities, these corporations, interact with peer corporations, what do they do? They make joint ventures. You know, they make things where both parties share in the upside together. So in a world where the band has an A-Corp, I think their record would be like a joint venture co-owned by the band and the label at which they are both putting in some money or labor to make It happen and which they both own in the upside. ([Time 0:23:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7c44fc20-ec0a-4bb9-aa57-b220d957c67a)) - **Artists Shaped The A‑Corp Features** - Artists prioritized low formation costs, clear IP ownership, and profit-sharing with peers in surveys. - Those preferences shaped the proposed A-Corp features under development. Transcript: Yancey Strickler Hello, my name is Jackson Cooper and I live in Seattle, Washington. Manoush Zomorodi My name is Liz Alvarado, and I live in Fort Collins, Colorado. We reached out to some of the artists who are excited about Yancey's plan for the A Corp. Yancey Strickler I'm a photographer. I'm a poet. Speaker 3 I'm a model, performer, singer, songwriter, and a musician. I do a lot of collage. I am an illustrator and a writer. Earlier this year, I left my tech design job to run my own multidisciplinary creative practice. I will say that one of the biggest challenges so far has been kind of battling people's preconceptions of design and what design is worth. The biggest struggle is stability and the admin takes up so much time that it feels like I'm running five different businesses by myself. Manoush Zomorodi Pitching, funding, managing rights. We are often trying to please whoever is responsible for giving us funding. Yancey Strickler You are at the mercy of a system that is only expecting you to produce, produce, produce. It's not a lack of talent that there aren't more successful working artists. Manoush Zomorodi It's a systemic issue. Yancey Strickler One thing I really stood out, we asked, like, what are your most desired features? And the things people most want, low cost of formation, simpler maintenance, clear ownership of IP, and the ability to share profits with peers easily. Manoush Zomorodi That would mean I could build equity in my projects instead of just selling them off, and it would make a creative life feel much more sustainable in the long run. I think that an A-corp could help artists spend more of their time creating and less time struggling against the systems that were never really set up for us. That was Jackson Cooper, Elizabeth Alvarado, Chris Lorenzen, Jade Fox, Craig Cloutier, Alina Braithwaite, Sabrina Liu, Michelle Dong, Maddie Bovard, and Hannah Celeste. So Yancey's A-Core idea isn't just a vision. ([Time 0:28:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5d199e7d-8761-4e52-bc18-ddc9f5ad4a71)) - **Policy, Not Platforms, Must Change** - State-level lawmaking (starting in Colorado) is the practical path to create an A-Corp legal form. - Legislative change is necessary to create defaults that support creative businesses. Transcript: Yancey Strickler Where we have real progress. I have a sponsor, a senator, state senator who is sponsoring this bill. There is a bill underway that's being written. And it's quite exciting to, to really try to, you know, operate at this level and to try to make, you know, an impact at the level of a public good that, you know, if, if this is successful, It creates a foundation for every artist from here on out, you know, I think to have a potentially dramatically different outcome than anyone before. ([Time 0:30:42](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ccee4ae6-3fb3-40b6-af26-20510fd26020)) ## New Highlights added 2026-05-13 at 3:04 PM - **AI Augments Rather Than Replaces Value** - AI will lower production costs and act as a creative assistant, not a full replacement. - Audience choice and personality will still determine what work resonates and retains value. Transcript: Yancey Strickler I think ultimately we're on a course of this being seen as the creative century, which is going to be the period of time in which humans approached problems and approached opportunities From this creative mindset of seeking the culturally resonant solution, seeking the aesthetically beautiful or pleasing answer, bringing design principles and creative principles To apply in culture and in society and in business and economics and the way that creative thinking has grown in our culture in a very explicit way is just something that is going to embed Itself more deeply around all of society. Manufacturing and creation to be input-output, I think it's personality and its relationship with audience that's going to distinguish what stands out from what doesn't. Manoush Zomorodi Are you talking about, you know, this sort of disillusionment in a lot of young people with late capitalism, this idea of the individual and sort of this yearning to come together in Real life, to have a community, quote unquote, of people. Yancey Strickler Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think that culturally, no one believes in social media, I think, in a real way. We all know all social media is an ad. Everyone's doing it because they have to. And so as creative people, there's a lot of pessimism at the moment. There's pessimism about the world. There's pessimism about AI. There's a pessimism about platforms. And I think that it's all true. But we also just have such amazing opportunities as creative people. There's a lot more of us than used to be where, you know, it's more competitive. Those are things that we're having to deal with. But I feel like there is a classical era of culture production that has closed. And I think probably that dividing line is AI. There's probably some dividing line where like classical culture production involves the period of time which we can say with certainty these things were largely made by human hands And human minds. Manoush Zomorodi That's classical, huh? Yancey Strickler That's classical. And then the neo-modern will be what we're in now. This perpetual now, this confusing amalgamation of things that, you know, initially I felt judgmental about being kind of boomer of me. But in talking to like the teenage TikTokers, you know, I understand that they view these things as tools and that, you know, it's just something that's there for them. And that people imposing their 20th century viewpoint of what truth and beauty is, is probably not going to make it or win in this moment of time. Are here. The tools are here. Like I, uh, I just continue to have faith in, um, in the energy of the internet. And, and, and if I look at what's happening in dark forests and group chats and these spaces, if I look at what people are able to achieve with light coordination and very little resources, Uh, it just makes me continue to be bullish on what internet-powered people can do. Manoush Zomorodi Can we talk more about AI? I guess I think of it in two ways. One is that IP or intellectual property, that's going to be more difficult to figure out what that even is in the era of AI. And then I guess the other question is, are more people going to be turning to creative professions or trying to make money off their hobbies simply because AI will allegedly take some Of the, that will have more time. There'll be less normal nine to five jobs. Yancey Strickler Yeah. Well, I think the, I think that using AI because we have more time, I think that's real. And, you know, I mean, definitely, definitely AI is your production assistant. You know, AI is trying to fill those gaps of all the jobs that you as an artist have taken on in this modern world. I mean, certainly people are going to try at that. I kind of think a world of AI is, you know, probably we'll all get to have a more childlike experience with creative things. You know, I think us interacting with, say, AI augmented creative tools is going to let us feel like we're good at anything. It just might be that no one else cares. ([Time 0:39:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c61463c0-0d91-4d2c-ab77-da8fdf3e5220)) - **We’re Entering A Neo‑Modern Cultural Era** - Culture has entered a transitional era where authorship mixes human and AI contributions. - Younger creators view AI as a tool and accept different norms about origin and taste. Transcript: Yancey Strickler But we also just have such amazing opportunities as creative people. There's a lot more of us than used to be where, you know, it's more competitive. Those are things that we're having to deal with. But I feel like there is a classical era of culture production that has closed. And I think probably that dividing line is AI. There's probably some dividing line where like classical culture production involves the period of time which we can say with certainty these things were largely made by human hands And human minds. Manoush Zomorodi That's classical, huh? Yancey Strickler That's classical. And then the neo-modern will be what we're in now. This perpetual now, this confusing amalgamation of things that, you know, initially I felt judgmental about being kind of boomer of me. But in talking to like the teenage TikTokers, you know, I understand that they view these things as tools and that, you know, it's just something that's there for them. And that people imposing their 20th century viewpoint of what truth and beauty is, is probably not going to make it or win in this moment of time. Are here. The tools are here. Like I, uh, I just continue to have faith in, um, in the energy of the internet. And, and, and if I look at what's happening in dark forests and group chats and these spaces, if I look at what people are able to achieve with light coordination and very little resources, Uh, it just makes me continue to be bullish ([Time 0:41:03](https://share.snipd.com/snip/390a7396-9456-4945-8b32-c6e007b70df6)) - **Label Work And Build Distinct Voice** - Expect AI to democratize making but still earn audience trust through distinct voice and branding. - Label AI-generated work clearly and let audiences decide its value. Transcript: Yancey Strickler How boomer of you. I know. I think just because AI makes it easier doesn't mean the audience is going to care. And the audience still has a lot of power. And I mean, there's a lot of the AI creative demonstrations I see is like art for non-artists to me. It's like, why, why would I do that? Like, that's the fun part. You're taking away the fun part. And I don't think it's going to replace what people choose to actively consume with the exception of like, you know, things that become memes or just hits a lottery of the right moment In time. So I, I don't, I don't really worry about that where, but I do have, you know, as a writer, for example, I do feel gatekeepery when I see, you know, AI books, for example, like, you know, And I have a reaction of I like, I want that to be branded that that's AI and that mine is not. And, you know, I feel something about that. And I think that maybe just what I have to believe is that, again, the audience will help determine the relative value of those things. ([Time 0:45:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/166858d0-eea3-48b8-a536-b01a8d8acf6f))