The Price of Criticism  ## Metadata - Author: [[Crossword]] - Full Title: The Price of Criticism - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/c7d3ff97-001c-4dc3-9ae6-9062f3202f3c ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Provocative WordCamp Incident** - A semi-pro cricketer friend wore WP Engine gear at WordCamp Sydney to provoke a reaction. - This led to Matt Mullenweg getting upset and questioning why a "WP Engine employee" was asking questions, though he wasn't an actual employee. Transcript: Luke He was a bit of a numpty and decided he would wear a WP Engine shirt and a WP Engine hat to WordCamp Sydney. Wow. Even though he has nothing to do with WP Engine. He hosts with them, I think, but just to sort of rub it in. So he's there, he's asking a question at one of the panels, a panel I was supposed to be on but had to pull out of. And somewhere in the crowd, there is an automatician. I kid you not. There is someone in the crowd that turns their phone, films him asking this question about whether or not meetups should be supported by WordPress or whether they should be a separate Thing and sends it to Matt. Oh, wow. So then Matt gets all upset about it. He reaches out to a bunch of people saying, why is this WP Engine employee asking questions at a WordCamp? And he even spoke about it in a recent interview thing that he did. And it turns out, actually, it wasn't a WP Engine employee. It was just Kim dressed up kind of like one. So I'd love to interview people like that and put together this big, long timeline, starting with the Baylights, I think. ([Time 0:02:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cef16bf3-9a41-44d2-94b5-abee281ce564)) - **Recognizing Behavioral Patterns** - Matt Mullenweg's problematic behavior is a repeating pattern, not a new phenomenon. - Although the scale and level have changed, understanding these cycles helps provide valuable context. Transcript: Jonathan Right. I think one of the things that surprised me, it's important to look at cycles and patterns. And one of the things that's come to, to, to me through this experience and talking to others and paying attention is that there are folks who are saying that this isn't new, this has happened Before. Yes. It's at a bigger scale. Uh, yes, it it's at a higher level. There are new factors, but this is a repeat pattern. Whether you think it's a good one or you think it's a dangerous one, I find value in looking at patterns. Looking back over an even longer arc. We have, to your point, there's a lot of work involved. ([Time 0:04:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/43cb1f29-2687-4450-b6bb-8c56dde4628b)) - **Fear of Cancellation in Community** - Openly criticizing Matt Mullenweg risks removal from the WordPress community. - This creates a chilling effect where contributors hesitate to speak truth to power. Transcript: Luke Know we're never going to do it though right because neither of us want to be canceled from the wordpress community it would be very critical of matt by by definition because he's been Doing terrible things. And so we just can't build it. We just can't do anything like that because we'd be barred, banned, kicked out. What are you talking about? You know, we would. If we did that, if we did that, we would not be allowed back into the WordPress ([Time 0:05:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/33fba376-3cb5-409c-85e9-abdbdd923359)) - **Nervousness Over Speaking Out** - Luke fears personal repercussions even for discussing criticism publicly. - He pleads with automaticians not to share this episode with Matt to protect himself. Transcript: Jonathan Like what does that even mean? Losing.org access? Luke It means what, yeah, what's happened to Ryan McHugh and others. Losing access to the Slack, losing access to login to WordPress.org. I mean, maybe for you that doesn't mean much, but for me that means I'm out. Like that's my livelihood. I do anything anymore. Right. Jonathan Um, are you, are you suggesting then that any criticism of Matt is met with removal from the community? Yes. Luke And I mean, to be honest, like I'm, I'm deeply nervous, even just about this episode. I think we're probably small enough that he doesn't know about us. And please, if you're an automatician listening to this, you will destroy my life if you share this episode with Matt. So please, please, I beg you don't. Jonathan Okay, that's hyperbolic. ([Time 0:08:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/71ec57bd-651b-4fd8-a348-406155a6f360)) - **Examining Matt's Motivation** - Matt's motivations matter: what would he gain by banning critics? - Past bans of individuals like Ryan McCue show this behavior is real, not hypothetical. Transcript: Luke What would Matt in this scenario have to gain from kicking you out? What did Matt have to gain from blocking, I don't know, hundreds, but tens, dozens of people from WordPress.org for criticizing him? He's already done it. This is behavior that's already happened. It's not some hypothetical. Please, no, please, no, please, no, please, no, please don't block me. I take it back. Matt, I take it back. Please, no. You're an amazing person, buddy. Like, oh, we've met in person. Don't you remember? We're best chums. I didn't mean anything that I said. Please, please, please don't block me. ([Time 0:09:28](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ebd9e411-0644-4bd4-82a9-5f45a1c79b40)) - **Dual Public and Private Personas** - Matt's public and private personas differ greatly, with a kinder public face but a harsher private side. - This duality impacts many people's perceptions and experiences in the WordPress community. Transcript: Luke I didn't mean anything that I said. Please, please, please don't block me. Luke. Luke. So, okay. Jonathan Let's go back to your idea. This idea of a timeline. I find, like, tracing Matt's behaviors not that interesting by itself. Like, I think there's more to it than this. Right? There's also, or is that what you're arguing that you'd find interesting? Let's just look at what Matt has done over the past X number of years. Luke Yeah, I'm more talking about the current situation. I think that the current situation is newsworthy. It's interesting. ([Time 0:10:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/410965fd-0f7b-4ec3-b4d5-99665e1ccc28)) - **Value of Documenting History** - Building an objective timeline of Matt's actions could add valuable historical context to WordPress's evolution. - Interviews and firsthand accounts would be crucial to deepen understanding beyond just listing events. Transcript: Jonathan So I actually do see generally a lot of value in looking at history and looking like objectively, as objectively as possible at the facts and adding more context. And interviews can go a long way to add context to it, right? So I could imagine, for instance, if there were this hypothetical timeline, you'd identify a number of key points in the timeline and ask for, like, go and talk to people who had direct Firsthand experience and build a story around that, right? Like, get into more details. I think what I'm interested, so I do see inherent value in that, like studying the past to better understand, because there's also, there's people that are leaving our space that may Not be coming back. And there are new people coming in who don't know the history, right? So let's say we did this. I could see it being interesting and value from a historic perspective and building more context. I think I'd enjoy it. I guess to what end though? I've enjoyed kind of going through this journey with you. So I guess it doesn't have to have a bigger, I guess part of it is, part of it is me. Like, I'm not trying to set the stage for a fork. ([Time 0:11:11](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4c142986-2ba8-43d4-97a1-381af8dfc52e))