This Week in WordPress #358 - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

This Week in WordPress #358 🔗 **Source:** [This Week in WordPress #358](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsNQf7VMVbM) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [wordpress, community, wordpress-6.9, podcast] > author: WP Builds > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsNQf7VMVbM > date created: 2024-12-09 11:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: This Week in WordPress #358 - WordPress 6.9 Release & State of the Word Discussion >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Update WordPress sites to 6.9 with proper backups — new features available #wordpress-core - [H2] Check out block-level collaboration features for team workflows — useful for agencies #collaboration - [H3] Explore WP Awards results for new tools and plugins — discover ecosystem gems #community ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [WordPress 6.9 Release](https://wordpress.org/news/2024/12/jean/) - [WP Awards 2025](https://thewpawards.com) ## 📝 Summary - WordPress 6.9 "Jean" released with significant new features and improvements - State of the Word event experienced major technical difficulties with live streaming - Community awards and recognition highlighting ecosystem contributors - Discussion of WordPress security perceptions following UK government leak - Performance and accessibility improvements across core WordPress ## 📖 Main Content This episode covers the major WordPress 6.9 release, featuring new collaboration tools, performance enhancements, and accessibility improvements. The hosts discuss the technical difficulties during the State of the Word presentation and their impact on community perception. The conversation also explores recent WordPress awards, security concerns from a UK government leak, and the ongoing challenge of managing WordPress's public image when configuration issues occur. Key themes include the importance of community contributions (over 900 contributors to 6.9), the evolution of WordPress collaboration features, and the need for better education around WordPress security best practices. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=0) — [H1] Podcast Introduction and Weather Chat - Key idea: Episode 358 with guest hosts filling in at last minute - Evidence: "Thank you to Mark and Dinda for stepping in at the 11th hour" #### ⏱️ [05:30](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=330) — [H2] Michelle's Award Recognition - Key idea: Michelle wins Women Tech Global Award for 2025 - Evidence: "Always the bridesmaid, never the bride. Well, up to this point, I've always been nominated but never won" #### ⏱️ [12:45](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=765) — [H3] WP Awards 2025 Results - Key idea: Annual community awards face spam voting challenges - Evidence: "Almost 1,500 or so votes that I did not count... total votes were exceeding 7,000" #### ⏱️ [18:20](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=1100) — [H1] UK Government WordPress Leak Discussion - Key idea: Misconfigured WordPress site causes political scandal - Evidence: "Changed the URL to 2026... that's exactly what somebody did... took the word March out, replaced it with November" #### ⏱️ [25:15](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=1515) — [H2] WordPress 6.9 Feature Overview - Key idea: Major release includes block-level collaboration and command palette - Evidence: "Block level collaboration... click a little button and you can add a comment. Think Google Docs" #### ⏱️ [32:40](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=1960) — [H3] Command Palette Expansion - Key idea: Universal search now available throughout WordPress admin - Evidence: "Available everywhere. WP admin, front end, back end, the lot" #### ⏱️ [35:10](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=2110) — [H2] Fit Text to Container Feature - Key idea: New design function automatically sizes text to available space - Evidence: "Really cool design function... very requested feature for design" #### ⏱️ [38:25](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=2305) — [H3] Performance and Accessibility Improvements - Key idea: Over 30 accessibility fixes and performance enhancements included - Evidence: "More than 30 accessibility fixes sharpen the WordPress core experience" #### ⏱️ [42:50](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=2570) — [H1] Community Contributors Recognition - Key idea: Over 900 people contributed to WordPress 6.9 release - Evidence: "Every time you click update, these human beings did stuff. Every one of them a human just like you" #### ⏱️ [45:30](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=2730) — [H2] State of the Word Technical Issues - Key idea: Live streaming completely failed during major WordPress event - Evidence: "I got this like 15-second cycle of Mary Hubbard just repeating the same words" #### ⏱️ [48:15](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=2895) — [H3] Community Viewing Party Impact - Key idea: Technical failures affected organized community watch parties - Evidence: "Running an online viewing party... about 20 people in a Zoom room... it's not going to happen" ## 📚 References - [WordPress 6.9 Release Notes](https://wordpress.org/news/2024/12/jean/) - [WP Awards 2025](https://thewpawards.com) - [WP Weekly Newsletter](https://thewpweekly.com) - [WP Builds Live Chat](https://wpbuilds.com/live) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - WordPress 6.9 brings significant collaboration features like block-level commenting and expanded command palette functionality - The State of the Word event suffered major technical difficulties that prevented most people from viewing the live stream - Community awards highlight both the ecosystem's diversity and ongoing challenges with spam voting and fair recognition ## 📰 Newsletter WordPress 6.9 "Jean" has officially landed! 🎉 This major release brings exciting collaboration features that many teams have been waiting for. The new block-level commenting system works just like Google Docs - perfect for agencies managing client content with internal team discussions. **Key Updates:** - **Block Comments**: Add comments to specific blocks with @mentions and email notifications - **Universal Command Palette**: Quick search/action bar now works everywhere in WordPress admin - **Fit Text to Container**: Automatically resize text to fill available space (designers rejoice!) - **Performance Boosts**: Faster loading with optimized database queries and refined caching - **Accessibility**: 30+ fixes improving screen reader support and keyboard navigation **Community Spotlight:** Huge thanks to the 900+ contributors who made 6.9 possible! And congrats to Michelle Frechette on her Women Tech Global Award win. Don't forget to backup before updating, and explore the new collaboration features if you work with a team. Resources: [WordPress 6.9 Release](https://wordpress.org/news/2024/12/jean/), [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - Core: Test 6.9 collaboration features, document block commenting workflows, performance monitoring - Community: Improve State of the Word streaming infrastructure, backup technical systems - Security: Address public perception issues from government leak incident - Training: Create tutorials for new 6.9 features, accessibility improvements documentation - Documentation: Update admin interface guides for command palette integration #### Community - Maintainers: Update plugin compatibility for 6.9, test collaboration features - Contributors: Continue accessibility bug scrubs, performance optimization efforts - Sponsors: Support community awards and recognition programs - Ecosystem: Share 6.9 upgrade experiences, best practices documentation ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Block-level collaboration will increase WordPress adoption in content teams and agencies - Command palette usage will improve admin efficiency once users adapt to keyboard-first workflows - State of the Word technical issues may impact future event planning and community engagement - Security perception challenges require proactive education about WordPress configuration best practices ### 📊 Methodology - User adoption tracking for new 6.9 collaboration features across different site types - Performance benchmarking before/after 6.9 upgrades across hosting environments - Community sentiment analysis around State of the Word technical difficulties ### ❓ Questions - Will block-level collaboration drive significant new WordPress adoption in enterprise? - How can the community better address security perception vs. configuration issues? - What backup plans should major WordPress events implement for streaming failures? ### 🔮 Future Research - Long-term impact assessment of collaboration features on WordPress market position - Analysis of government and enterprise WordPress adoption barriers - Community event technical infrastructure best practices ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Teams can now manage content collaboration entirely within WordPress - Policy: Need for clearer guidance on WordPress security configuration for government use - Security: Public incidents highlight importance of proper WordPress configuration training - Education: New features require updated training materials and user guidance - Community: Technical event failures can significantly impact community engagement and perception ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: 8th-9th grade (Flesch-Kincaid) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Screenshots of new WordPress 6.9 interface elements, award results visualization - Improve: Architecture diagrams for collaboration features, before/after performance comparisons #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full podcast discussion with multiple perspectives - Improve: Audio highlights of key 6.9 features, accessibility improvements explained #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Detailed explanations, community terminology, technical definitions - Improve: More analogies comparing WordPress features to familiar tools #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Step-by-step update instructions, hands-on feature exploration - Improve: Interactive 6.9 feature testing checklist, collaboration workflow exercises #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Timeline of WordPress releases, systematic feature categorization - Improve: Decision trees for when to use new features, ROI analysis for collaboration tools #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Community discussion format, contributor recognition, shared experiences - Improve: Group testing guides for new features, community feedback collection #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual feature exploration, personal upgrade experiences - Improve: Self-assessment checklist for 6.9 readiness, independent testing scenarios #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: WordPress ecosystem connections, community growth patterns - Improve: Open source sustainability discussions, community health metrics ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: Detailed discussion of WordPress 6.9 accessibility improvements - Improve: Specific WCAG compliance examples, screen reader testing results #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Command palette as keyboard-first improvement - Improve: Complete keyboard shortcut documentation for new features #### Contrast and readability - Present: Clear discussion structure with topic headings - Improve: High contrast examples of new WordPress admin elements #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive podcast format across platforms - Improve: Text scaling examples for WordPress admin improvements #### Media and captions - Present: Full transcript available for podcast content - Improve: Audio descriptions of visual WordPress interface changes #### Forms and interactions - Present: Discussion of WordPress admin interaction improvements - Improve: Accessibility testing guidance for new collaboration features ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: International panelists (US, India, UK perspectives) - Improve: More discussion of global WordPress community impact #### Inclusive language - Present: Gender-neutral technical terms, welcoming community discussion - Improve: More explicit acknowledgment of diverse contributor backgrounds #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Clear topic structure, predictable format - Improve: Content warnings for technical difficulties discussion #### Representation - Present: Diverse panelist backgrounds, community contributor recognition - Improve: More focus on underrepresented contributor achievements #### Psychological safety - Present: Respectful disagreement, supportive community tone - Improve: Clearer community participation guidelines ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: WordPress 6.9 features logically support collaboration needs - Inductive strength: Past update patterns support future WordPress development predictions - Causal reasoning: Technical streaming failures directly caused community viewing problems - Analogical strength: Google Docs comparison effectively explains WordPress collaboration features #### Fallacies - Appeal to popularity: Assuming WP Awards winners are inherently best without context - Hasty generalization: UK government leak representing broader WordPress security issues #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Conversational, community-focused, technically informed but accessible ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No problematic denial patterns detected - Attack: No attacks on community members or accusers - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender reversals present - Emotional cues and rhetoric: Supportive community discussion, appropriate technical criticism ## 🎯 Conclusion WordPress 6.9 represents a significant step forward in collaboration and performance, but the community faces ongoing challenges around public perception and event management. The release's 900+ contributors demonstrate the strength of open source collaboration, while technical difficulties during State of the Word highlight the importance of robust infrastructure for community events. For WordPress users and developers, 6.9 offers meaningful improvements worth exploring, particularly for teams managing collaborative content workflows. The broader lesson emphasizes the need for continued education about WordPress security and configuration best practices. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad ### [H1] WordPress 6.9 introduces block-level collaboration features > [!quote] This Week in WordPress #358 by WP Builds via YouTube. Published 2024-12-08. Accessed 2024-12-09. > "Block level collaboration... click a little button and you can add a comment. Think Google Docs" Game-changing feature for agencies managing client content with internal team discussions. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=1515#H1) #collaboration #wordpress-core ID:rw_001 ### [H2] Community awards face significant spam voting challenges > [!quote] This Week in WordPress #358 > "Almost 1,500 or so votes that I did not count... total votes were exceeding 7,000" Demonstrates ongoing challenges in maintaining fair community recognition systems. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/ZsNQf7VMVbM?t=765#H2) #community #voting-integrity ID:rw_002 --- ### 🔖 Atomic Split Pad (Zettel Candidates) #### [Z1] WordPress collaboration features reduce external tool dependencies - Scope: Teams using Google Docs for content collaboration - Pointer: 25:15 timestamp discussion - Links: [[WordPress-Core]] [[Team-Workflows]] #### [Z2] Technical event failures significantly impact community perception - Scope: Major WordPress community events with live streaming - Pointer: 45:30 State of the Word discussion - Links: [[Community-Events]] [[Technical-Infrastructure]] --- ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - [F1] Test WordPress 6.9 block comments with agency workflow — 6.9 release #fleeting #testing - [F2] Document command palette keyboard shortcuts — admin efficiency # --- ## Full Transcript [00:04] It's time for This week in WordPress, [00:06] episode number 358, [00:09] recorded on Monday the 8th of December, [00:12] 2025. My name is Nathan Wrigley and [00:14] today I'm joined by co-host Michelle [00:16] Fchett. I'm also joined by Dinda Sinc [00:19] and by Mark Benzerane. Thank you to Mark [00:23] and Dinda for stepping in at the 11th [00:25] hour. It is a WordPress podcast and so [00:28] what do we talk about? Well, this week a [00:30] lot about WordPress. Apart from talking [00:32] about the weather at the beginning, we [00:34] then get stuck into oodles of content [00:36] about WordPress 6.9. This is the latest [00:39] version of WordPress which has dropped [00:41] recently. And there's bags to talk [00:43] about. Not only are there loads of [00:45] articles out there on the web [00:47] instructing you of all the different [00:48] bits and pieces that have been included [00:50] in this update, but there was lots of [00:52] commentary around the state of the word [00:55] address given by Mullenweg recently as [00:58] well. After that, we get into some other [01:00] different bits and pieces, some [01:01] community news. We talk about Black [01:04] Friday deals. There's some brand new [01:06] plugins out there in the WordPress space [01:09] which I think you might like to look at. [01:11] And obviously we get into a conversation [01:13] about AI. It's the year 2025, so [music] [01:16] we always do. It's all coming up next on [01:20] this week in WordPress. [01:23] This episode of the WP Builds podcast is [01:26] brought to you by GoDaddy Pro, the home [01:28] of manage WordPress hosting that [01:30] includes free domain, SSL, and 247 [01:34] support. Bundle that with the hub by [01:36] GoDaddy Pro to unlock more free benefits [01:39] to manage multiple sites in one place. [01:42] Invoice clients and get 30% off new [01:45] purchases. Find out more at [01:48] go.me/wpuilds. [01:54] Every week I say I'm going to change [01:56] that music and every week I completely [01:59] fail to do it. And and as soon as it be [02:01] >> I just wrote I just wrote the lyrics [02:04] though. [02:04] >> Have you [02:05] >> WordPress talking about WordPress? [02:09] [laughter] Anyway, [02:10] >> like it'll be next time. Okay, I'm glad [02:12] of that. No, it needs to change, but I [02:14] always forget to do it. It's like bottom [02:16] of the laundry list of things to do. [02:18] Here we are. Episode 358 of This Week in [02:21] WordPress. That's uh one more than last [02:24] week and one less than next week. There [02:26] we go. We're going to be having um a [02:29] little bit of a break over this. That is [02:30] how numbers work. [02:31] >> I know. Yeah. Add one, take away one. [02:33] We're going to be having a little break. [02:34] So, we got a couple more episodes, I [02:35] think, before the Christmas break, [02:37] something like that. And uh quite a [02:38] lot's happened this week. So, usually [02:40] this podcast kind of runs a load of [02:42] topics. We go through lots of different [02:44] things. I've put quite a few things on [02:46] the show notes just in case we don't [02:48] have enough to say about WordPress 6.9, [02:50] but I think it's quite likely that we'll [02:52] dwell on WordPress 6.9 quite a lot. Um, [02:56] I'll first of all introduce co-host for [02:58] today. That is Michelle Fchett over [03:00] there. How you doing, Michelle? [03:03] >> I am quite well, thank you. Good. [03:04] >> Even though it's only 7° Fahrenheit here [03:07] today. [03:07] >> Yes. And um and I have to say a great [03:09] big thanks to [03:10] >> negative numbers for you all. [03:11] >> Well, I don't even know what that means, [03:13] but it sounds like a bad amount of [03:14] degrees. Um Yeah. Um Michelle isn't [03:18] supposed to be here. Uh I say that in [03:21] the in the nicest possible way. Um and [03:23] that is because we we had an alternative [03:26] arrangement of guests and two of them uh [03:28] today have had to cancel. So two of [03:30] these guests I'm incredibly grateful for [03:32] sort of stepping in at the last minute [03:33] and Michelle was one of them. Uh Jess [03:35] Frick was going to be joining us but [03:36] she's unable to at the last minute. So [03:38] Michelle is joining us instead and I'm [03:40] really grateful for you stepping in at [03:42] the last minute. I'll just go through [03:43] Michelle's bio. She is the executive [03:46] director of post status and in addition [03:48] to her work there she is also the [03:50] podcast barista at WP coffee talk [03:52] co-founder of underrepresented in tech [03:54] and WP speakers creator of WP career [03:57] pages also involved in sponsor me WP [04:01] co-founder of speed network online she [04:03] writes so she's an author and influencer [04:05] and a frequent organizer and speaker at [04:08] WordPress and wider tech events she [04:10] lives near Rochester New York and she [04:13] likes to take photographs of nature. If [04:15] you want to go to the one website to [04:17] find out more, it's meet.online [04:20] and uh yeah, thank you once more for [04:22] joining us. Appreciate it. [04:24] >> It's my pleasure. [04:24] >> The other person who stepped in at the [04:26] last minute is Dinda. Deinda Sinc. Thank [04:29] you, Dinda. I appreciate it. [04:31] >> You're welcome. [04:32] >> Dinda was is well Tim West. I don't even [04:37] know who that is. Who is that? [04:39] [laughter] [04:40] Tim Tim Nash. Apologies Tim. Uh Tim Dash [04:44] was supposed to be joining us, but he's [04:45] not feeling quite right. He's under the [04:47] weather. And again, uh you know, Dinda [04:50] sort of stepped in at the 11th hour, and [04:52] I'm incredibly grateful uh for that. And [04:54] here's Tim. Uh oh dear, I'm really [04:57] struggling with names today. Here's [04:58] Dinda's bio. Um a digital creative who [05:01] loves to create online spaces powered by [05:04] WordPress. He's been in the ecosystem [05:06] for more than 18 years and he's focusing [05:08] on creating websites, digital product [05:10] courses, coaching, and consulting. He is [05:13] the founder of the wpweekly.com, [05:17] which is a quick simple newsletter for [05:20] WordPress users. Uh there's a few [05:22] newsletters that I subscribe to in the [05:23] WordPress space to crib content for this [05:26] show and the WP WP weekly is one of [05:31] those. I I I think that's uh that's [05:33] that's a good thing, right? [05:34] >> Yeah. Amazing compliment. [laughter] [05:36] >> Yeah. Well, it comes out on a Monday [05:38] just before this show comes out. So, [05:41] it's kind of ideally ideally time. [05:43] >> I live in India. If I was living in UK, [05:45] then it would have been a problem [05:46] because [05:47] >> Yeah. Yeah. [05:49] >> It's kind of the perfect way to start my [05:51] week. I just sort of read it, you know, [05:52] first thing in the morning with my mug [05:54] of coffee, out it comes and uh I'm off [05:56] to the races. And so, yeah, I appreciate [05:58] all that you do. I know that stuff like [05:59] that, you know, it's like a labor of [06:01] love a bit, but also I guess it's um [06:03] helping your business out and things, [06:04] but it's really credible. You should go [06:06] and check it out. Like we said, the URL [06:08] is the so you have to put the the in the [06:12] wpely.com. [06:13] No hyphens or anything weird like that. [06:15] The wpweekly.com. Go check it out. [06:18] Subscribe. [06:19] And um that over there, the person [06:22] coughing, that's Mark. That's Mark [06:24] Benzane. How you doing, Mark? [06:27] >> I'm peachy. How are you? [06:28] >> Yeah, good. Um, Mark is not living in a [06:31] box. This is just how he appears every [06:34] time he's on the show. Something weird. [06:35] >> I spent a good 35 seconds last week [06:38] trying to get rid of that box and it [06:40] still isn't working. I I looked at AI. I [06:43] have like done all the research and and [06:46] it says, "Oh, yeah, this will work." No, [06:48] it doesn't. [06:48] >> Embrace the box. Go with the box. [06:50] >> I think what it boils down to is I just [06:52] should buy a new camera. [06:54] >> I think Yeah, the aspect ratio is wrong. [06:56] Mark. Yeah, Mark is the only guest who I [06:58] was predicting, but I woke up this [07:00] morning. So, uh, thank you, Mark, for [07:02] joining us. Um, [07:03] >> and ironically, I'm on the list of [07:05] backups in case you need a backup. So, I [07:07] could do both right now. [07:09] >> Yeah. Okay. So, [laughter] [07:12] you that would be hysterical. If you [07:14] wear two different hats, you could be [07:15] the backup guest of one minute, swap it [07:17] out for the other one. So, let's read [07:18] Mark's bio. Mark Benzane has been around [07:20] the WordPress world long enough to [07:22] remember when everybody thought a custom [07:23] post type was wizardry. I still think it [07:26] is. He's a marketing lead and [07:28] partnership manager at MainWP where he [07:30] wrangles newsletters, partnerships, and [07:31] the occasional existential crisis about [07:34] plug-in change logs. Before that, he ran [07:36] word camps, helped grow server press [07:38] tenfold, and even survive government [07:40] tech support, proving that he can debug [07:42] both websites and bureaucracies. That's [07:44] no mean fee. These days, if he's not [07:46] connected to the main WP community, [07:48] you'll find him riding his ebike to [07:51] work, which he insists is both [07:52] eco-friendly and a perfectly valid [07:55] excuse for being late to Zoom calls. [07:57] [laughter] [07:58] Did you ride it this morning? [08:00] >> I did not. And it's funny because last [08:03] night Gina said to me, "Are you riding [08:05] your bike in tomorrow?" I said, "Are you [08:06] crazy?" [08:07] >> Yeah, [laughter] it's like crazy [08:09] temperature. And what time is it where [08:10] you live? It's like 5:30 in the morning [08:13] >> at the moment. It's 6:09 a.m. So, I'm [08:16] normally up around 4:00 or 4:30, but I'm [08:18] not awake at 4:00 or 4:30. So, you know. [08:22] >> Okay. Stucking around until [08:23] >> Are you drinking coffee? Like, I'm [08:25] drinking coffee. [08:26] >> I've already had coffee. This is just [08:27] plain vodka. I mean, water. [laughter] [08:29] So, [08:31] >> love it. Okay. And that is the nature of [08:33] this this podcast. It's all about being [08:35] a bit silly, having a good time, and uh [08:37] and reading the comments that drop in. [08:39] If you do feel like adding some [08:41] comments, we would love that. Honestly, [08:43] it really keeps this whole show going. [08:44] It's most commendable. Anybody that [08:46] does, I'll just give you the the skinny [08:48] on how that works. Uh the best place to [08:51] go if you want to comment on this is [08:54] probably here if you're confused cuz [08:56] this is going out. It goes out into a [08:58] variety of different platforms. I think [09:00] LinkedIn has failed. I got a little [09:02] warning in the dialogue that said [09:03] LinkedIn has failed. At this point, [09:05] there's nothing I can do to amend that. [09:06] So, it's like if you're on LinkedIn, [09:09] you're not even going to hear this. But [09:10] there you go. It failed. But it usually [09:12] goes out on LinkedIn and Facebook and X [09:15] and places like that. So if you're [09:16] watching this, if you comment in any [09:18] place apart from YouTube, we don't get [09:21] them because the platforms increasingly [09:24] lock that stuff down. So the the the [09:26] comments will just be stuck in that [09:27] platform and we won't see them. So if [09:29] you head here, wpbuilds.com/live, [09:32] we've embedded the YouTube comments and [09:34] we will get those so we can put those on [09:37] the screen and what have you. or you [09:39] could just go to the wpbuilds YouTube [09:41] channel. But uh wpbuilds.com/live. [09:44] If you're logged into Google, that's [09:45] great. We'll get the comment. However, [09:47] if you don't have a Google account or [09:48] mistrust Google for some reason, there's [09:50] a little button inside the video top [09:53] right. It says live chat. If you click [09:55] on that, you don't need to be logged [09:56] into anything. You can just comment and [09:58] uh we'll get that as well. Okay. So, [10:01] that's probably the best way to do that. [10:03] There's a couple of people that have [10:04] done that already. That's really nice. [10:05] Thank you very much. James Laauo says, [10:08] "Hello and good morning." Very nice to [10:09] have you with us. That's really nice. [10:11] Hello, says an and Blet. Thank you very [10:14] much for joining us. Hello again, says [10:17] Gen. I'm sorry is all I could say. I I [10:21] don't know how to phonetically pronounce [10:23] your name. If you want to write it [10:25] phonetically for me. [10:26] >> Wasn't it Gerald or Gerard? [10:28] >> Okay. It probably was, but I have the [10:30] memory of a cushion, so uh you know, [10:33] >> you can remind us. [10:34] >> Yeah. Thank you. Hello Gerard or yeah [10:37] let us know your name and apologies [10:39] Gerard [10:39] >> getting it wrong and this is [10:42] I do know Marcus so that's all right [10:44] he's running out of Mondays in 2025 so [10:46] are we but happy for this one I can and [10:49] that he can see us all that's really [10:50] nice we've got Jonathan Overall WP [10:53] plugins A to Z good morning from a wet [10:55] and dreary Vancouver Island oh no [10:57] >> where it is also six o'clock in the [10:59] morning [laughter] [11:00] >> yeah here's a blast from the past we [11:02] used to do the weather sort of stuff on [11:04] this show every time kind of died to [11:06] death a little bit, but um Michelle's [11:07] telling us here we go. It's 7° [11:09] Fahrenheitus. What? It's that -14 [11:14] centrade. [11:15] God, that's brutal. Michelle, don't go [11:18] out. Stay where you are. [11:19] >> I went on I didn't trust my brain, so I [11:21] did the calculation online to figure out [11:23] what the conversion was. [11:25] >> That's horrible. That's [11:26] >> And I've already been out and come back [11:28] today. So, I might just [11:29] >> And alive. God, in the UK because we [11:32] have like fairly temperate weather, it [11:34] never gets hot and it never gets really [11:36] really really cold. If we get that kind [11:38] of a cold spell, like it which might [11:40] happen like once every three or four [11:42] years, everything collapses like the [11:44] whole everything just shuts down cuz [11:47] nothing's built with that kind of [11:49] tolerance in mind. When you live when [11:51] you live in the Great Lakes region like [11:52] I do, [11:53] >> we can get upwards of 100° F in the [11:56] summer and below zero Fahrenheit in the [11:59] winter. So, it's been as as cold here as [12:02] minus 20, which is probably like - 40 [12:04] where you are. Um, [12:06] >> you know, and and so, yeah, we get the [12:09] very big R. People used to say to me, [12:10] you can't complain about the winter if [12:12] you also complain about the summer. [12:14] >> And I say, I have a body that can [12:16] complain about any extreme. [laughter] I [12:19] don't like lava or dry ice. [12:22] >> Okay. Okay. I think we can all agree on [12:23] that. Um that it's a dry cold. [12:27] >> It doesn't matter. It's just cold. [12:29] [laughter] It just doesn't matter [12:30] whether it's dry or not. [12:31] >> It is true cuz your hands crack. It's [12:34] just terrible. Yeah. [12:35] >> I watched a video of somebody in your [12:37] neck of the woods who took like a a a [12:39] mug of coffee and took it outside and [12:42] then started at the ground and poured it [12:44] out whilst lifting the coffee mug up. It [12:47] just made this arc of coffee which froze [12:49] in [12:50] >> Yes. [12:51] >> That That's like [12:52] >> which crystallizes almost immediately. [12:54] Yeah. [12:54] >> That's like Hoth out of Star Wars. [12:56] That's not happening on Earth. That's [12:57] happening on some other planet. That's [12:59] amazing. Anyway, [13:00] >> I bought this the bubbles like the kids [13:02] blow bubbles. I bought bubbles to [13:04] photograph when they freeze cuz bubbles [13:06] will freeze outside. [13:06] >> Do they go like ping pong balls in [13:08] midair? Do they? Oh, that's [13:09] >> No, [laughter] they just they [13:10] crystallize and then Yeah, it's really [13:12] cool. [13:12] >> Anyway, here we go. We're not supposed [13:14] to be talking about the weather. And it [13:15] is. Wait, it is Gerard. I remember [13:18] >> it is. It is Gerard. Look there. Look, [13:20] it is Gerard. Hello. I'm sorry. I'm [13:22] sorry, Gank. [laughter] [13:24] Your name is actually Gerard. I'm so [13:26] sorry. [13:26] >> I get I get extra points this week. [13:28] >> Yeah, you do. You do. You get extra [13:29] points. There you go. Look, and and [13:31] loves Dinda's newsletter as well. [13:33] Dinda's WP Weekly is one of my [13:35] favorites, too, says. And that's really [13:37] nice. Somebody Sorry, Dinda. Go on. [13:40] >> Yes, I also do this. [laughter] [13:42] >> Yeah, that's nice. U my full Oh, okay. [13:44] Here we go. My full name is Gerard Van [13:47] and Gank is my default. Okay, got it. [13:49] Got it. Got it. That makes sense. That's [13:51] the the hand. [13:52] >> Good to see you back again, Gerard. [13:53] >> Yeah, thank you. Please keep coming each [13:55] Monday. We love it. And make loads of [13:56] comments. Send all of your friends and [13:58] relations here. So, what are we up to? [14:01] >> In No, we're not doing more weather. Um, [14:04] [laughter] [14:04] in theory, we're supposed to talk about [14:06] WordPress. So, we will get on to that. [14:08] Just a few bits of self-promotional [14:09] stuff if that's okay. This is our [14:11] website, wpbuilds.com. put your email [14:14] into that little box and we'll send you [14:16] two emails a week. One when we parcel [14:18] this up as a podcast on a Tuesday and [14:21] then we'll send you one on a Thursday. [14:22] Our Thursday podcast Oh, wrong one. Our [14:25] Thursday podcast is on episode number [14:27] 448 and the most recent one was uh a [14:30] chat with Dave Gray who's often on this [14:32] show. So, you can go and check that out. [14:33] He's got this really curious marketing [14:35] initiative for one of his most recent [14:37] plugins. He's got this really [14:38] interesting idea of instead of selling [14:40] it to end users, he's going to sell it [14:41] directly to hosts and uh so that they [14:45] can implement it on behalf of their [14:46] customers, which I thought was a really [14:48] interesting idea. We still have a Black [14:50] Friday page despite the fact that Black [14:52] Friday itself was gone. Uh increasingly [14:55] Black Friday deals don't just stop at [14:58] the end of Black Friday. I remember when [15:00] I was a kid, Black Friday wasn't even a [15:02] thing. And now it just goes on and on [15:04] and on and loads of the deals are still [15:06] going. So, if you go to [15:07] wpbuilders.com/black [15:10] and you sort of scroll down, every deal [15:13] that's on the page is still alive. They [15:16] sort of go off the page as they become [15:18] inactive. So, you know, if you sort of [15:20] search and filter for things, there's [15:22] still quite a lot. I don't know, maybe [15:24] there's a hundred or something still [15:26] there. So, go and have a poke around if [15:27] that's your thing. [15:29] And one last bit of self-promotion is I [15:32] had a chat with the lovely Toeer De Roia [15:35] on the WP Tavern podcast this week and [15:37] we talked about how he over many years [15:41] in the WordPress space has been sort of [15:43] like laying the groundwork for the bits [15:44] and pieces that he's now doing. And by [15:46] that I mean he's been building things in [15:49] the open with no expectation of anything [15:51] in return and then curiously something [15:54] will come his way that he didn't [15:55] anticipate. And so it's a a real a real [15:57] community story about sort of doing [15:59] things with no expectation of having [16:01] your pockets lined or anything like [16:03] that. So there we go. 196 [16:06] four episodes to number 200. What should [16:08] I do on episode 200? That's a bit [16:10] different. [16:11] >> You got any ideas? Any would you do [16:13] anything at all? Hey, [16:16] >> travel to Canada. [16:18] >> Hang on. Let's go with Dinda first. Go [16:20] on Dinda. [16:22] travel to Canada. Minus 20° C is waiting [16:25] [laughter] for you. [16:27] >> I enjoyed on the podcast [16:30] >> and Michelle will give you tips on how [16:32] to deal with it. [laughter] [16:33] >> Okay, [16:35] that's that's not what we're going to [16:36] do. Uh it's a [laughter] nice idea. What [16:39] were you going to say, Mark? [16:40] >> I was going to say let someone interview [16:42] you. [16:43] >> Oh, no. Nobody wants to hear that. [16:44] >> Flip flip the script. [16:46] >> No, no, no. [16:47] >> I'll interview you on your podcast. [16:49] >> No, no, no, no. Nobody wants to to hear [16:51] that. [laughter] [16:52] >> Talk later. [16:52] >> No. No. Bad idea. Okay, moving on. That [16:55] that [laughter] didn't go how I [16:56] expected. [16:58] >> Me neither. Me neither. I thought you'd [17:00] embrace it. So, you know. [17:01] >> Uh anyway, there it is. 196. Go check it [17:03] out. Right. A couple of So, during the [17:06] notes, during the notes stage of the [17:08] show, when we set the show up, I uh [17:10] issue some show notes and I offer the [17:12] the guests an opportunity to mention [17:13] something that they wish to mention. And [17:15] uh it's awards this time around. Uh the [17:18] first one is an award to one of our [17:20] panelists. And then the next one is [17:22] Deinda's uh WP awards page. Let's have a [17:25] look at that in a minute. First of all, [17:26] we mentioned this a few weeks ago when [17:28] you were on the show. Michelle was up [17:29] for an award last week. [17:31] >> Didn't know that you were going to win [17:32] it and you only went and won it. Well [17:34] done. [17:36] >> You know that phrase, always the [17:37] bridesmaid, never the bride. [17:39] >> Yeah. [17:39] >> Well, up to this point, I've always been [17:41] nominated but never won. And I can't say [17:43] that anymore. So, very exciting. I I [17:47] looked over the roster of the women who [17:49] are also nominated in this and I [17:51] thought, "Oh, there's no chance that [17:53] I'll be winning this award at all. [17:54] They're so accomplished." But I still [17:57] was ready to take a screenshot just in [17:59] case I came in bronze or something. [18:01] Imagine the tears that streamed down my [18:03] face when I saw my face. [18:05] >> Nice. [18:06] >> Yeah. [18:06] >> Um, and so was this like an online vote [18:09] kind of thing? Is this something that [18:10] people voted for? Uh it was it was that [18:13] was one component of it but then it was [18:15] al also juried by about 30 people. [18:17] >> Nice. [18:18] >> So I was just blown away. Thank you. [18:21] >> Yeah. [18:22] >> And one of the nicest things is it [18:24] wasn't WordPress. So it's like people [18:26] outside of WordPress know who I am which [18:28] made it really. So [18:29] >> yeah. Yeah. That Well, honestly, massive [18:31] congratulations. What I'll do is I will [18:33] link in the show notes when you uh when [18:35] you receive the the sort of newsletter [18:37] the summary of all of these different [18:38] bits and pieces. I'll put that in the [18:40] community section and you can go and [18:42] check out. But uh Michelle is the woman [18:44] women tech global award winner for the [18:47] year 20 [18:49] >> 25. Very very cool. Um so obviously that [18:52] was like a a wider awards thing. I'm [18:54] guessing there was more than the the [18:56] category that you won and we have we [18:57] have a few of those in the WordPress [19:00] space and Dinda runs one of them. When [19:03] did um when did you sort of start this [19:05] whole process this year? When did Dinda [19:07] when did you start the um like the [19:08] onboarding of the different people that [19:10] were going to be featured in it and the [19:12] different companies and plugins and [19:13] things? [19:14] >> Well, it's [19:14] >> you open the nominations like in [19:16] September, right? [19:17] >> Yeah. Uh I usually keep nomination for [19:20] two 2 months and 2 months for voting and [19:22] then bam results and I was working like [19:26] 6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. yesterday to [19:28] finish calculation of you know it's lot [19:31] of work but yeah it's been like this is [19:34] like fifth year running so I've learned [19:36] a lot of things while running this and [19:38] especially how to combat spam voting. Oh [19:41] yeah, [19:42] >> people post things. So I'm, you know, [19:45] adding one layer after another every [19:46] year. But yeah, spammers are very smart [19:49] these days. So [19:50] >> So bec So it's a form. It's an online [19:53] form. And so how like obviously without [19:55] revealing anything, what is the kind of [19:58] ratio of spam to regular voting? Is it [20:01] like one for one? Like is is half of the [20:03] voting spam or do you think it's less [20:04] than that or what? Like this year it was [20:06] like almost 1,500 or so votes that I did [20:09] not count or they were like thrown out [20:10] of the like it's showing 5975 as total [20:14] votes but total votes were exceeding [20:15] 7,000 but you have to take them out. So [20:19] first year I started I didn't have any [20:21] you know clue whether anyone would vote [20:23] like I'm talking about 5 years back. So [20:26] it was party for everyone right so the [20:29] next year I realized you know there has [20:31] to be some checks and balances. So next [20:33] year it was like not just you have to [20:35] have a unique email address your IP [20:37] address will also be checked and if [20:39] you're again voting with different email [20:41] address but from same IP address you [20:43] won't be allowed to vote. So this year I [20:47] actually ran the whole email. I [20:48] submitted emails via a spam filter and [20:51] you know took out all the votes that [20:54] were there and there were quite a few [20:56] related to certain brands. I would not [20:58] name them but obviously it's not their [21:00] problem. Maybe there is a problem but [21:03] yeah slowly you know step by step I'm [21:06] trying to figure out how to make it [21:08] bulletproof. You know security is never [21:09] 100%. So [21:11] >> yeah [snorts] learning step by step. [21:12] >> Yeah. Honestly, I can only say I tried [21:14] really hard. Those 1500 votes that I put [21:16] in, damn is all I could say. It never [21:20] worked. Um, [21:21] >> and you're still placed. You still [21:23] >> That's [laughter] right. Yeah. Yeah. [21:24] Yeah. That's good. Um, and so any [21:26] topline items obviously, you know, the [21:28] the voting Oh, so there was this whole [21:30] phase of like onboarding who you could [21:32] vote for and then that then moves on to [21:34] the step where everybody gets a chance [21:36] to vote, which is what we've just been [21:38] talking about, where the spam can [21:39] potentially creep in. And then yesterday [21:42] you figured out what the final results [21:44] were and what have you. And these are [21:45] the top Well, I guess we're looking at [21:48] five things there. What are these that [21:50] we can see there? These are the [21:51] >> 1.3 you know. See, I still made a [21:54] mistake. The rank match should be five [21:55] and it's saying four now. [21:56] >> Oh yeah. Yeah, I see that [laughter] [21:58] too. [21:58] >> You weren't tired, were you? [22:01] >> Oh yes, [22:02] >> I still fixed few mistakes. Some people [22:04] actually DM me today in the morning [22:06] like, "Oh, this link is not working. [22:08] That link is not working." Uh yeah, I'll [22:10] do that. I'll fix this. But so this is [22:12] like top five among the total votes to a [22:15] specific brand or product. And then if [22:17] you scroll down, there are top three for [22:20] every category. Like when I first [22:22] started running, I used to write you [22:24] know exact number of votes for every [22:26] nominee. But then few people reached out [22:28] to me and say that we love to [22:30] participate but we don't feel we feel [22:32] really embarrassed or bad when you put [22:34] zero one against our you know number of [22:36] vote. So I switched the whole thing. I [22:38] think I said I will only put first six [22:41] you know vote voted uh you know nominees [22:43] under every category. I guess that gives [22:45] a little better view at least because [22:47] participation is more important than [22:48] winning. Obviously winning is the thing [22:51] but again so a lot of people submit it [22:54] just to be participant and you know the [22:56] funny thing the feedback I get from [22:58] people who are subscribed to the [22:59] newsletter obviously voting is one thing [23:01] but they think they say that oh I [23:03] discovered a new tool or a service in [23:05] this category I didn't even know it [23:07] existed right so [23:08] >> that's kind of fun yeah [23:10] >> so that's like indirect marketing I [23:12] guess [23:13] >> do [snorts] you do you exclude anybody [23:15] at the point where the nominations for [23:17] the things to be voted Ed on dropping. [23:20] Do you ever get the impression that [23:21] somebody is using this as a marketing [23:24] channel or is that all fine? [23:26] >> The only thing I exclude is if some [23:29] service or product is not related to [23:30] WordPress. Like a lot of SAS tools get [23:32] submitted. Even for Black Friday deals, [23:34] I never add them because again, if [23:36] you're sticking with WordPress, you [23:37] stick with WordPress. [23:38] >> Yeah, I get the same thing, Deinda. So, [23:40] I put that Black Friday deal page [23:42] together and I get loads. Like the [23:44] weirdest one this year was a company [23:46] that was selling socks. uh just socks [23:49] and I don't even know why they like why [23:52] fill out the [23:53] >> why they even fill out the form. I know [23:55] it's probably a robot, right? But [23:57] nevertheless, [23:58] >> uh [23:58] >> I had one at plus status for cruise like [24:01] get a discount cruise and I was like I [24:03] don't I don't see the WordPress part of [24:04] this so sorry but no I I had several for [24:09] mobile phone companies. [24:10] >> Right. Right. [24:12] >> A lot of mobile phones. Yeah. I don't [24:14] know where it came from. [24:14] >> Adding to the weirdness, I got it for [24:16] toys as well. Toys. [24:19] in the hope [24:20] >> in the hope that people will uh will [24:23] will actually include it. So these are [24:25] the things that the top ones that we're [24:26] looking at here 1 2 3 4 and four aka [24:29] five um these are the ones I guess that [24:32] received the overall most votes. So in [24:34] first the thing that got more votes than [24:36] any other thing was um ACF Pro [24:40] >> the in second place was Woo Commerce. Ah [24:43] fascinating. The third place was the [24:45] WordPress community, the admin bar. The [24:47] fourth was Elementor and then sorry. [24:50] Yeah. Yeah, that is the fourth. And then [24:52] the the fifth uh the second fourth. [24:55] >> Yeah, the second fourth was uh was [24:57] RankMath SEO. And then if you want more [25:00] intel on all of the other bits and [25:02] pieces, then you have to scroll down and [25:03] it's done by uh category. So, for [25:06] example, at the minute we're looking at [25:07] gold, silver, bronze for WordPress [25:08] themes, and it goes Astra, hello, the [25:11] Elementors theme, uh, Cadence, and then [25:14] page builders, and then block builders. [25:17] That's that's things for Gutenberg form [25:18] plugins and so on. And, uh, and the list [25:21] goes on and on. So, I would recommend [25:22] that you go go and check it out, scroll [25:25] around. And I think I think at this [25:27] point the most interesting thing if you [25:29] haven't cast a vote would be exactly [25:31] what Deinda said would just be to go and [25:32] poke around and see what other curious [25:35] new things you can find and do do all of [25:38] these things here. So, for example, if I [25:40] if I hover over, I don't know, one of [25:42] these here, will that link out to the [25:44] the item in question there? Homepage. [25:46] Okay, great. Great. [25:48] >> You're going to run it again? You should [25:50] you should scroll down to the agency [25:52] tools and see who took silver. [25:54] >> Oh, okay. [25:55] >> Just barely [25:56] >> agency. Let's go for agency. [25:59] >> We we uh although now I demand a [26:01] recount. I think you should go and look [26:03] at all [laughter] those bot. But [26:07] >> demand a recount. [26:09] >> I demand a recount means means you won't [26:12] be on the list next year. [26:13] >> That's right. [laughter] [26:17] >> I take it back. I take it back. [26:18] >> Yeah. They take it back. Uh so yeah, [26:21] look there it is in second place main WP [26:23] or in silver place I guess we should say [26:25] is silver. Yeah. Yeah. [26:27] >> Uh it's it's not its own URL. So it's at [26:30] the WP weekly uh website. So it's [26:33] wpweekly.comawwards [26:36] uh2025. [26:38] Uh you're going to run it in 2026 do you [26:40] think? [26:41] >> Absolutely. And the URL is also [26:43] thewpawwards.com. [26:45] So [26:45] >> Oh, is [laughter] it apologies? Have a [26:47] redirection. Yes. Uh lovely. Okay. So it [26:50] does in fact work. [26:51] >> This is amazing. You know I I not just [26:53] [clears throat] running the words the [26:54] interactions that you have in the [26:55] background with people that is the most [26:58] useful part of running this whole thing. [27:00] Obviously they are like this is like [27:02] shout voting and all that. Let me tell [27:04] you in which country do we have fair [27:06] voting? None. Right. So [27:08] >> that's true. [27:08] >> You expect to be fair voting in [27:10] WordPress. [laughter] [27:12] >> The um the curious thing is I can [27:15] predict I think what next year's URL [27:17] will be. It will be [27:18] theweekly.com/awwards/2026. [27:24] And the reason I say that is cuz I have [27:26] a bit of a segue um which I wasn't [27:29] expecting to have. And let me see if I [27:30] can find it. Yeah, here we go. So, this [27:32] is a little segue. I've just dropped [27:34] this in. I wasn't expecting to do this, [27:36] but I just saw that Ry had posted this. [27:38] Um, and the reason there's a connection [27:41] there is because we mentioned it last [27:43] week. In the UK, uh, a misconfigured [27:46] WordPress site led to this whole [27:48] political brewhaha. I'll just very [27:51] quickly summarize. We have this thing [27:52] called the OBR, the Office for Budget. [27:55] I've forgotten actually what it stands [27:57] for. I've actually forgotten the [27:58] acronym. That's really Oh, Office for [28:00] Budget Responsibility. There we go. and [28:02] it is responsible for like this bianual [28:05] thing where they drop all the the [28:07] information about like tax and pensions [28:10] and rules around money and it's a big [28:12] deal. Lots of people stop what they're [28:14] doing and pay attention cuz it really [28:15] matters. Unfortunately, the the document [28:18] outlining all of that, which is supposed [28:20] to be like really top secret, it leaked [28:23] like 3 hours before the actual [28:25] announcement and it turns out it was a [28:27] WordPress website where somebody had [28:30] used a plugin and misconfigured it so [28:34] that you could guess the URL and it was [28:37] what I've just done with Dinda's [28:38] website. I changed the URL to 2026 and [28:42] I'm anticipating that it'll be there [28:43] next year. Well, that's exactly what [28:45] somebody did. They they took what was [28:47] available in March, took the word March [28:50] out of the URL, replaced it with [28:52] November, hit return, and to their [28:54] surprise, they got the information. [28:57] Anyway, like this is this is this is [29:00] WordPress's like not not the best hour, [29:02] and it's nothing to do with WordPress, [29:04] which is the annoying thing. Um, it's [29:08] now led to the the head of that [29:09] organization in the UK resigning and [29:12] it's led to unfortunately a lot of press [29:14] coverage with the word WordPress in it [29:18] that feels like WordPress is insecure [29:22] and I don't really know how we recover [29:25] from that in in the real world because [29:27] obviously you know the organizations [29:29] like this and the repository and your [29:31] newsletter Deinda we're right inside the [29:33] baseball but this is now this is now in [29:36] the UK. UK normal press and they're sort [29:39] of having a bit of a go at WordPress. [29:41] They're not. They're just explaining [29:43] like, you know, it's a misconfigured [29:44] WordPress website, but the optics look [29:46] really bad. I don't know if anybody has [29:47] anything to add to that, but what a [29:49] shame that that's uh that that in fact [29:52] >> it's the issue with the person who was [29:53] managing the website or the department [29:55] who was managing, not the WordPress. [29:56] Now, if you if you encounter a car [29:58] crash, you don't blame the company of [30:00] who made the car, right? [30:01] >> Yeah. Yep. Yep. Well, I guess if it's [30:03] self-driving, yeah, maybe. [30:05] >> [laughter] [30:05] >> But not um no but um I I would agree but [30:10] you know how uh government works. The [30:12] guy at the top and it was a guy in this [30:14] case the guy at the top he he quit. He [30:17] said you know the box stops with me. Um [30:20] I you know it happened under my watch. [30:22] So it has led to a major political [30:25] realignment in that department. So it's [30:26] kind of interesting. Anybody want to say [30:29] anything about that one before I just [30:31] say a few comments? No. Okay. Uh the [30:35] first one is uh well done Marcus [30:36] Bernette for spotting my Hoth comment. [30:38] Nobody spotted that except you. Uh and [30:41] he says Hoth. Uh fun fact, a reference [30:45] [laughter] a Hoth reference on a Monday [30:47] means it's going to be an amazing week. [30:49] If you don't know what Hoth is, it's the [30:51] really really cold planet on Star Wars [30:53] where Luke Skywalker is on that like [30:55] weird horselike creature. Uh and now [30:58] that I've established my nerd [31:00] credentials, I'm going to keep going. [31:02] Here's another comment. Hello from us [31:03] all in WP Bakery. Hello. Hello. Very [31:06] nice to have you with us. Uh especially [31:08] M Michelle. Congrats on your award. What [31:11] else have we got? Oh, so this is the [31:14] idea for episode number 200. Is it a [31:16] roundup recap? Talk about how it [31:18] started, how it evolved today, and other [31:20] things. Thank you. These are all good [31:22] ideas. Um and oh, Courtney, bless you. I [31:26] hope it's nothing bad. She's in a Do [31:29] chiropractors do they do they do? No, [31:32] I'm thinking of corropodist. [31:34] Chiropractors don't do feet, do they? [31:36] Chiropractors do like [31:38] >> bones and backs and stuff like that. [31:40] Well, anyway, [31:40] >> sometimes sometimes feet, but not [31:42] exclusively. [31:43] >> Yeah. Well, anyway, good luck, Courtney, [31:44] with whatever it is. I hope that you're [31:45] all right. And I expect it's time to put [31:48] the phone down now, Courtney, and [31:50] concentrate on the chiropractor. [31:51] [laughter] [31:53] [gasps] [31:54] >> She's still in the chat, though. So, [31:56] >> yeah, she is. She's still there. She [31:57] says that URL thing can happen without [31:59] any plugins. That's right. a default [32:00] version of WordPress will deliver [32:02] exactly that cuz once it goes into [32:04] uploads then it's available publicly. [32:06] It's social engineering guessing the PDF [32:08] link. Ryan McHugh. Yes, he did. Ryan [32:10] McHugh had a post on it uh from Altis [32:13] Atlas. I can never pronounce that word. [32:15] Um so I'll put that into the show notes [32:18] as well. Um Ton, very good Marcus. Okay, [32:23] we need to do a whole Can you come on my [32:25] Tavern podcast episode 200 and we'll [32:28] talk about Star Wars creatures. [32:31] [laughter] [32:32] >> That would be great. [32:33] >> I know Ewoks and that's where [32:35] >> Yeah, everybody knows Ewoks, but they [32:36] beyond that. Anyway, there we go. That [32:38] was the uh that was the bits and pieces [32:40] that our guests have brought. Let's get [32:41] into the main sort of like WordPress 6.9 [32:44] stuff. So, boatloads here. Um WordPress [32:47] 6.9 dropped. I expect if you're watching [32:49] the show, you've probably got, you know, [32:51] some kind of update mechanism. If you've [32:53] got a bunch of client websites and they [32:55] are not yet updated, go hit the update [32:57] button. Back up before you do. Um, but [33:00] yeah, go and hit the update button [33:01] because we have a new version. It's been [33:03] long in the making, a lot longer than [33:05] normal, what with all the, you know, the [33:06] the legal things happening in the [33:08] WordPress space. And so 6.9 Jean, I [33:11] think that's how you pronounce it. It [33:12] was an American jazz P and it's Jean [33:15] Harris. Uh, I wonder if we'll ever run [33:18] out of jazz musicians. There'll ever be [33:20] like a moment where it's ah, we've now [33:22] got to be something else. I I suspect we [33:25] should go to Star Wars Creatures or [33:26] something like that. That would be good. [33:28] Um, anyway, it's come out and there's [33:31] absolutely loads for us to talk about. [33:33] I've got many, many, many articles [33:35] stacked up on my browser here and we'll [33:38] just take them one at a time and as the [33:39] bits and pieces scroll past the screen, [33:41] we'll maybe get into a chat about those [33:43] kind of things. So it's dropped the [33:45] first thing don't know if this is of [33:47] interest to any of you three but the the [33:50] first item of mention is some things [33:52] which have updated in in actual core of [33:54] WordPress. So new features that you can [33:56] play with inside your WordPress site. [33:57] We've talked about this before but here [33:59] we go. Um block level collaboration. So [34:03] this is the idea that if you're inside a [34:05] block like a paragraph or or an image or [34:07] whatever it may be, you can now click a [34:09] little button and you can add a a [34:11] comment. Think Google Docs where you add [34:14] comments. It's bound to the particular [34:16] block. So you can't highlight a bit of a [34:18] paragraph or anything like that, but you [34:20] can comment and you know at@mention [34:23] somebody who's a WordPress user on your [34:24] website and they can get an email and [34:26] reply and all that kind of stuff. I [34:29] don't I I will never use this in my [34:31] current cell because on none of the [34:34] WordPress websites that I use is there [34:36] another individual basically. So this [34:38] won't be of any use to me. But I can can [34:40] see this being important. Do any of you [34:42] three have any intuitions about whether [34:44] this is a useful thing? [34:45] >> This can be really useful. Like if two [34:48] or three people are running a web agency [34:49] and they're using Google Docs [34:51] collaboration feature, they can just [34:52] install WordPress on a subdomain and [34:55] start using it and everything remains [34:57] within WordPress. They don't have to log [34:58] in their Google account, you know, [35:00] [snorts] freedom, right? Freedom and [35:02] ownership of all the data within one [35:04] space because when agency people within [35:06] the agency talk, it's all like private [35:08] things, right? there. You don't need to [35:09] share that with the client or end [35:11] result. [35:13] >> Nice. Yeah, indeed. Um, you've kind of [35:16] summed it up perfectly there. You know, [35:17] if you if you've if you've got an [35:19] internet basically, if you were to use [35:21] it like that, like a Google Docs kind of [35:23] thing, it would work really well. Um, it [35:25] is at the minute part of a wider project [35:28] which is um the the third phase of the [35:31] Gutenberg project if you like and this [35:34] is the idea of collaboration. We'll [35:35] return to this a bit later, but anyway, [35:37] that was one feature, very useful. The [35:40] next one, again, a feature that just for [35:42] historic reasons I don't really use [35:44] inside of WordPress, uh, is the command [35:47] pallet. So, you, if you're looking at [35:49] the screen, you can see a screenshot. [35:50] You invoke it, a little panel comes up [35:53] in the middle of your screen, and it's [35:54] like a universal search bar. And it used [35:58] to be available in some places on your [36:01] WordPress website, and now it's [36:02] basically available everywhere. WP [36:04] admin, front end, back end, the lot. And [36:07] obviously, you know, as WordPress [36:09] matures, you'll be able to do more or [36:11] less everything inside of there. There's [36:13] a bunch of commercial products which do [36:15] this and do it like do the full monty. [36:18] Uh, this is sort of building up to that. [36:20] Again, opening it up to the panel. Do [36:21] you think you'll actually use anything [36:23] like this or see utility in it? [36:25] >> I like it as long as it doesn't slow [36:27] things down in the back end. [36:29] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [36:30] >> You know, [36:32] >> but I actually do like it. I I would use [36:34] that if it was if it was uh quick and [36:37] responsive. [36:38] >> Do you use stuff like that on your I [36:40] don't know your Mac or whatever it is [36:41] that you've got. Do you use Spotlight [36:43] and things? [36:44] >> Um I I do a little bit. Yeah. [36:46] >> Yeah. Yep. [36:47] >> So, as much as possible, any way that I [36:49] can do a shortcut and type in something [36:51] and and pull it up. Um I prefer keyboard [36:53] anything. So, [36:54] >> do you? [36:55] >> Yeah. You see, I've never really taught [36:57] my I'm just trying to think if there's [36:59] many things that I'm keyboard first on. [37:02] >> And I think the answer is no. I I've [37:04] sort of got into a habit in more or less [37:05] everything that I use of clicking around [37:07] the interface to get there. [37:09] >> And in a modern WordPress website with [37:11] the old admin UI and the new admin UI [37:13] kind of overlapping, I think you're [37:16] probably on to the right thing. I spend [37:18] more time complaining about the fact [37:19] that I have to take my hand off the [37:21] keyboard in order to press the mouse [37:23] than it would take to actually press the [37:24] mouse button. [37:25] >> Okay. [37:26] >> So, yeah. [37:27] >> Right. Right. Right. Right. So, you [37:29] invoke this, start typing and whatever [37:31] you want will come up. Start start [37:33] typing the word add and add post add [37:35] whatever will kind of come up and then [37:37] you can [37:38] >> crack on with that task. So, that seems [37:40] like a really useful thing to have. Um, [37:43] the next one again it's kind of like [37:45] interesting. I I can't see myself using [37:48] this, but I can see that it has real [37:50] utility. It's called fit text to [37:52] container, and it literally does what it [37:54] says on the tin. You just type a word or [37:57] a sentence in, and it will whatever [37:59] screen you're on, it will shrink the [38:02] text to maximize the the text size so [38:05] that it fills that available spot. Um, I [38:08] guess it's kind of good for opinionated [38:10] design if you want to adjust something [38:11] so that it looks that way, but uh I [38:14] don't see myself using that particularly [38:16] much. Again, out to you three if you [38:18] want to comment. [38:19] >> I think it could be a really cool design [38:21] function. I'm interested to play with it [38:23] and see how it looks. Yeah, [38:24] >> I wonder if it ever overlaps though. [38:26] Like there's this like extremely long [38:29] word in Welsh, which is this name of [38:31] this town, and it's just like I don't [38:32] know, like 300 characters or something [38:34] like that. I wonder what it would do. [38:36] Wonder if it ever does text for. [38:38] >> The question is, does it also shrink? [38:40] >> Yeah. To fit it. [38:42] >> So, in theory, it would be so tiny, all [38:44] you'd see is these little dots. [38:46] >> Just like a series of dots. Uh, I don't [38:48] know. [38:48] >> There's ants crawling on my screen. [38:50] >> Yeah. I'm not sure. But, um, we'll [38:52] return to some more things in a minute [38:54] once we've exhausted this article. But [38:56] that's the sort of features that you can [38:58] use in the in the front end. Um, sorry, [39:01] in the back end. And then we're on to [39:03] some slightly more technical things. And [39:05] again, we'll be coming backwards and [39:07] forwards from this AI whole topic thing. [39:09] For now, I'm just going to say them by [39:11] name and kind of move on. So, the first [39:13] one is the accessibility API. We'll talk [39:15] about that more in a minute. That has [39:16] dropped [39:17] >> the abilities. [39:18] >> Yeah, sorry. I apologize. I'm looking at [39:19] the word accessibility at the bottom of [39:21] the screen. Yeah, the abilities API. [39:23] We'll come to that later when we talk [39:25] more about uh a [39:26] >> Let me interrupt for just a second. [39:27] Yeah. to say that Tammy said that that [39:29] expand um the one the previous one is a [39:32] very requested uh feature for design. [39:35] >> So there you go with the text one. Yeah. [39:38] So [39:38] >> it's not curious if you are a designer. [39:40] It is only a curious if that's not [39:42] something that you focus on. [39:43] >> Yeah. Yeah. Quite right. Thank you. [39:45] Yeah. And Tammy, thanks for mentioning [39:46] that, Tammy. Um big part of the 6.9 [39:49] release. It was it was curious. We'll [39:52] get on to it in a minute. the uh the [39:54] state of the word the more or less the [39:56] only bit that I saw was Tammy's face. Um [39:59] there was a bit of Mary Hob on repeat, [40:01] but Tammy was also a bit that just kept [40:03] repeating to me. So that was kind of [40:05] interesting. Uh okay, back to the [40:07] article. So yeah, uh abilities API and [40:10] then we probably won't return to this, [40:12] so I'll mention it in full now. [40:14] Accessibility improvements. The access [40:16] uh more than 30 accessibility [40:18] accessibility fixes sharpen the [40:20] WordPress core experience. updates [40:22] improve screen reader announcements, [40:25] hide unnecessary CSS generated content [40:27] from assistive tech, fix cursor [40:30] placement issues, and make sure typing [40:32] focus stays put even when users click an [40:35] autocomplete suggestion. So that's the [40:38] accessibility [40:39] >> always happen to see accessibility [40:41] improving across especially since so [40:43] many people don't focus on it for their [40:45] own sites and it would be so helpful if [40:47] they did. the more we can build in and [40:49] bake in I think is so much better for [40:50] the for the whole internet. [40:52] >> I know that in the comments we've got an [40:54] who is big into the accessibility side [40:57] of things. So maybe if an if you want to [40:59] drop a comment about the most exciting [41:01] accessibility piece in there that would [41:03] be interesting and then [41:06] >> for people who are wondering. [41:07] >> Yes, sorry apologies. Thank you. Um and [41:09] then I'll just read this out as well. [41:11] Performance enhancements. Who doesn't [41:13] love this? Although in most cases I [41:15] think it just goes completely unnoticed [41:16] because we don't you know we don't [41:18] actually have much going on. It just [41:20] kind of you WordPress just gets faster [41:22] but there's a lot of work going on in [41:24] the background. 6.9 boasts an improved [41:26] largest contentful paint through [41:28] ondemand block styles for classic [41:30] themes. minifying block theme styles and [41:33] increasing the limit for inline styles [41:36] uh which is removing blockages to page [41:38] rendering and clearing the rendering [41:39] path by dep prioritizing non-critical [41:42] scripts. Also optimized database [41:46] queries, refined caching, improving [41:48] spawning of WPRON and a new template [41:52] enhancement out output buffer that opens [41:54] the door for more future optimizations. [41:57] Almost none of that did I understand, [41:59] but I've read it out loud and so so [42:03] there you go. [laughter] [42:05] >> I don't understand it, but I read it out [42:07] loud for you. [42:07] >> Yeah, that's right. So, [laughter] [42:09] you heard it here first. [42:12] I can only be thankful. Do you know what [42:13] though? It's the same on the [42:15] accessibility side, right? I read these [42:17] things and they're beautiful and I I get [42:19] I get some of them because they're a [42:20] little bit more understandable, but I'm [42:23] just so appreciative that some co-author [42:25] of people make it their raise on detra [42:28] to just do that stuff when it gets sort [42:30] of taken care of on the steady cadence. [42:33] Um, do I feel guilt when I hear, you [42:35] know, look in Slack and I see all the [42:37] accessibility bug scrubs going on and [42:39] things like that? Yeah, a bit because, [42:41] you know, you can't put yourself [42:42] everywhere all at once. But I'm really [42:44] >> And you can just summarize this as this [42:47] means faster WordPress. [42:48] >> Yeah. Lovely. That's right. Yeah. Great. [42:50] Yeah, that's it. Yeah, we'll go without [42:52] that. I should have I should have just [42:54] said that, shouldn't I have? That would [42:55] have been loads better. [42:56] >> TR faster. [42:58] >> Faster. Yeah. And this bit I always miss [43:02] and somebody always picks me up on it in [43:04] the comments. We need to mention the [43:07] release squad, don't we? That's [43:08] important. Um, so the release squad, [43:11] there they are on the screen. So we had [43:13] Matt. So these are the people if you [43:15] like who get the named credit at the top [43:16] and then we'll see the great big list of [43:18] contributors in a moment. So release [43:20] lead was Matt Matt Mulleng. Coordination [43:24] was Akshshire Rain and Amy Camala. Tech [43:28] leads were David Balvald. Uh Ella Van [43:32] Derp. I don't know how to pronounce all [43:33] these names. I'm sorry. Ectctor Prito. [43:36] Uh design lead was Francisco Vera. [43:38] Triage leads Aki Hammono and Ryan [43:40] Welchure. And then the test leads were [43:42] Jonathan Bosinger and Crew Pernandanda. [43:45] And then I I'm not even going to try to [43:48] read out this great long list, but look [43:50] at it. Um loads and loads and loads and [43:52] loads of contributors. Over 900 [43:55] >> people uh made this project possible, [43:58] delivering 340 enhancement and fixes. [44:01] And uh let's just scroll through it and [44:03] get some idea of what makes a WordPress [44:05] near you tick. So every time you click [44:07] update, these human beings did stuff. [44:12] Every one of them a human just like you [44:14] doing stuff to make the project better. [44:16] How cool is that? Um there we go. [44:19] >> Amazing. [44:19] >> Yeah. Isn't that amazing? Isn't that [44:21] that isn't that the bit that's the glue? [44:23] That's the fact more or less that's the [44:26] whole thing, right? That list of names [44:28] right there kind of sums up why we do [44:31] it. Uh why we're into it and all of [44:33] that. It's just this brilliant community [44:35] going on in the background. So, thank [44:37] you to all of you. Each one of you gets [44:39] a mention, but not out loud, I'm afraid. [44:41] So, there we go. That was the first [44:43] piece. Anything about that last little [44:44] bit, my going on about the community [44:47] there. [44:49] >> I'm just so grateful for all the people [44:50] that contribute. [44:51] >> Indeed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. [44:54] What have we got? I'm just looking [44:55] through the comments. Uh we've got a few [44:58] fair few comments about Star Wars. I [45:00] feel like I've opened up a can of worms [45:01] there. Uh, I'm going to pass by. [45:04] >> It's mostly Marcus. So, [45:05] >> okay. Good, good, [laughter] good. He [45:07] uh, if it was Okay, I'll do one just [45:09] because it's funny. Uh, WordPress 7.0. [45:11] Banana. I'm I'm down for it, Marcus. If [45:14] you can make that happen, I'll vote for [45:15] that. Yeah, Star Wars creatures. That's [45:17] good. 7. Okay, one more. 7.1. Mine. [45:20] [laughter] [45:22] Okay. Uh, D. Any other comments that [45:26] have come through that are worth [45:27] mentioning? [45:28] >> As long as it's not 7.2 Jar Jar, I'm [45:30] good with it. [45:31] >> Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughter] [45:32] I'm with you. Okay, here's an then we [45:34] just mentioned an an uh the [45:36] accessibility um enhancements. There are [45:40] many fixes that I'm happy about both in [45:41] the editor and the front end. Fixes in [45:43] the navigation block and an [45:45] accessibility ready accordion. Woohoo. [45:48] Great. Thank you. Um I I would ask if [45:51] you were having an interview with me at [45:53] this point, I'd ask what those fixes [45:54] were, but hopefully um somebody can [45:57] maybe you can link to an article or [45:58] something. There we go. Right, moving [46:01] on. We we alluded to this earlier. State [46:04] of the word happened. Um, technically, [46:07] if you were not in the room, [46:11] what word shall we use to describe the [46:14] live streaming? [46:15] >> If you were not in the room, you were [46:16] definitely in the dark. [laughter] [46:19] >> Yeah, [46:20] >> it wasn't dark. It was in the loop. [46:22] >> It was. [laughter] It really was. I had [46:25] Mary H. [46:26] >> I was running I was running an online [46:30] viewing party of state of the word with [46:33] about 20 people in a Zoom room and of [46:36] course assuming it was my internet that [46:38] was glitching and then other people were [46:40] saying no I'm having the same problem [46:42] and I would keep refreshing and finally [46:43] we said all right goes guys you'll have [46:45] to watch this on your own it's it's it's [46:47] not going to happen [46:48] >> so just like WordPress got blamed in UK [46:51] here Michelle is the blamed person you [46:54] know [laughter] I sus I honestly I've [46:56] been suspecting as much I thought it was [46:58] Michelle It had Michelle's stamp all [47:01] over it. Um the [47:05] >> I can't program, but I can hack. I don't [47:07] I don't understand that. [47:09] >> She got She got her award and now she's [47:11] showing her colors. [47:12] >> Yeah, that's right. Um [laughter] you [47:14] can't program, but you could break [47:15] things. How about that? We'll go with [47:17] that. [47:17] >> Apparently. Apparently. [47:18] >> Yeah. So if you if you joined State of [47:20] the Word, the idea was that there was [47:22] and honestly I I think for this [47:24] particular one there had been quite a [47:25] lot of um PR around State of the Word [47:28] like I'd never seen before like there [47:30] was this whole like 4 days to go they [47:32] were putting things out on Twitter and [47:33] things and 3 days to go and then it came [47:36] to the time and I you know clicked on [47:37] the appropriate link and it was [47:39] broadcast to several platforms. So you [47:41] could watch it on X or you could watch [47:42] it on YouTube and no doubt other places [47:44] as well. But it quickly became obvious [47:46] that the tech um was entirely broken. [47:50] You could see that it it was there. [47:52] There were cameras in the room, but I [47:54] got this like 15second or something [47:56] cycle of Mary Hubard just repeating the [47:59] same words. Um and then I got a bit of [48:02] Tammy sitting in the audience right at [48:04] the front and then it was back to Mary [48:06] Hubard again. And um and so my first [48:09] thought was, "Oh, this is bad. You know, [48:11] this is bad optics. It doesn't look good [48:13] for WordPress." [48:14] um and what have you. And it's and then [48:17] I thought this is really bad for those [48:19] people who've actually booked a space [48:22] and have kind of got together in like a [48:24] cafe or something like that, you know, [48:26] and are just sort of hanging out. And [48:28] then then like the more sanguin part of [48:31] me got hold and gave I gave myself a bit [48:33] of a talking to and I thought it doesn't [48:35] matter. You [laughter] know what's fine? [48:38] Who cares? Um and so I I hope that's [48:41] what everybody else got out of it as [48:43] well. you know, the tech tech fails all [48:45] the time, right? And there's not much [48:46] you can do about it. And even in the [48:49] after reporting, I've noticed that there [48:52] there's no sort of like, you know, [48:54] nobody's kind of prostrating themselves [48:56] and apologizing and, you know, nashing [48:58] of clothes and rending of teeth or any [48:59] of that. They're just sort of it it [49:01] didn't work, you know, let's move on and [49:03] talk about the the more important [49:05] things, which was the content of it. And [49:07] and I think that's kind of where I've [49:09] landed as well, although it was a bit of [49:10] a frustration at the time. [49:13] So what? You know, we move on. But [49:15] Michelle, I hope for your sake it wasn't [49:17] too awkward having put all those people [49:18] in a Zoom room or anything like that. [49:20] >> I mean, I didn't spend any money to do [49:23] it, so I mean it wasn't terrible. [49:25] >> Yeah, I guess it was slightly [49:27] embarrassing, but once I realized it [49:29] wasn't me, what could you do? We just [49:30] had a little networking time and went [49:32] about our our day. [49:34] >> Yeah, indeed. Um, okay. So, it happened. [49:38] State the word happened. And one of the [49:39] curious things, I didn't see it [49:41] obviously, but it looks like from this, [49:43] let me see if I can find the picture. [49:45] Yeah, it look I'm showing you a picture [49:46] of um four, what is it? Four, eight [49:49] people standing around something like [49:51] obviously leaning in. I'm guessing it's [49:53] a big red button or something like that. [49:56] And um it would appear I don't know how [49:58] real this was like there was a button [50:02] and all the people on stage at that [50:04] moment leaned in and pushed the button. [50:06] And the idea being that WordPress 6.9 [50:09] um released at that point. What I'm [50:11] guessing actually happened is that [50:13] somebody at the back of the room was [50:14] logged into some part of WordPress.org [50:17] and and clicked a button rather than [50:20] that. I mean, if that button did do the [50:21] thing, great. But I somehow doubt it. [50:24] But but it's great. What a what a lot of [50:26] fun that was. And the idea, first time [50:28] ever, the release came out at the same [50:30] time as this sort of live uh event. And [50:34] um [50:34] >> Tammy said it was a button, but it was [50:36] not red. [50:37] >> Oh, okay. Tammy, honestly, do you think [50:39] do you think the button actually did it? [50:41] In other words, if somebody had run onto [50:43] the stage like 10 minutes before I just [50:45] struck the button, do you think [50:46] WordPress 6.9 would have come out like [50:48] 10 minutes early and would the office of [50:50] the OBS or whatever it is in the UK [50:53] resign uh as a result? So, [50:56] >> I think that somebody would have pushed [50:58] the button because buttons are made to [51:00] be pressed and if anybody saw it, they [51:02] would have pushed it. [51:04] >> I mean, look, we're a community of [51:05] nerds. We push buttons. That's what we [51:07] do. [51:08] >> Yeah. Do you remember back in the day [51:10] that was a real way to get people to do [51:12] stuff online, wouldn't it? You'd make a [51:13] big red button and say, "Do not push [51:15] this button." [laughter] Everybody [51:18] Everybody would irresistibly click the [51:20] button. Uh Tammy says, "Do not break the [51:24] illusion." Okay. Sorry, Tammy. [51:25] [laughter] [51:27] For anybody here who still thinks that [51:31] Santa I mean um [laughter] [51:34] [gasps] [51:35] >> Hey, my kids are watching. [51:36] >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm going to stop I'm going [51:38] to stop there. Okay. So, anyway, that [51:40] happened, but there was a lot more in it [51:42] that wasn't mentioned previously. So, [51:44] we're back to sort of WordPress content [51:46] again here. And I thought this was kind [51:48] of interesting. So during the keynote [51:50] that a few people came onto the stage [51:52] and um Mullen Mullenweg spent a fair bit [51:56] of time talking about WordPress as a [51:58] project during the last year which has [52:00] obviously I imagine for him been a very [52:03] curious year. I imagine it's been a year [52:06] of ups and downs for him on so many [52:08] levels but he talked about um what's [52:11] coming in WordPress in the near future [52:13] concentrating on a lot of the AI stuff. [52:15] talked about TX I think a year ago. [52:18] Probably nobody had any idea that TX was [52:20] coming around. Tammy got a mention um [52:23] along with Nick Hamsy for their use of [52:25] TX and the curious things that they've [52:28] been doing. Talked about the AI team and [52:30] got them on stage to talk about various [52:33] different pieces. Had Mary Hubard on [52:35] stage as well talking about the project [52:37] as well. Um and we'll get into the AI [52:40] stuff. This is this is a fascinating [52:42] bit. I love this bit. This is the [52:44] education side of WordPress. Easy to [52:46] forget, right? I think ba basically I [52:49] view WordPress as a publishing platform, [52:52] but I forget the profound effect often [52:53] that it has in different sectors and [52:56] different parts of the world. And uh [52:58] thankfully Mary Hubard hasn't. And I'll [53:00] quote in 2025 there were 81 word camps [53:04] in 39 countries organized by more than [53:07] 5,200 volunteers attending over attended [53:10] by over a 100,000 people. And here's the [53:13] education bit. The learn WordPress [53:15] platform served this is eye watering. [53:18] Like just take this in. Like really [53:22] think about it for a minute. 1.5 million [53:25] users. Like what? That's just an [53:28] indescribably large number of people. Um [53:32] and the engagement jumped 32% after Word [53:35] Camp US. I think it was touted a little [53:37] bit at that point. Uh there was a real [53:39] mention of word camp WordPress campus [53:41] connect which um kind of got its debut [53:44] in Azma in India and the idea of that [53:48] program is to connect kind of real world [53:52] um people with free training materials [53:55] and free sessions. It's got a bit [53:57] bigger. It's spread out since then um [54:00] and is being used in that platform is [54:02] sorry that that campus connect idea is [54:04] being used in different parts of the [54:06] world as well. Uh WordPress credits was [54:09] also given a mention. This is the idea [54:11] that if you're at a bricks and mortar [54:13] university, you can um you can offset [54:16] some of your scholarly program uh you [54:19] can say I'm going to do WordPress stuff. [54:22] And if you're at the University of Pisa, [54:24] that's possible. And if you're at the [54:26] university, well, it's called the [54:28] Universadad Fidelas. I'm sorry if I got [54:31] that wrong. In Costa Rica, you can also [54:33] do the same thing. I love listening to [54:35] you pronounce words from other [54:37] languages. [54:38] >> I know it's uh it's bad. Let's just say [54:41] that. But you can um you can offset [54:43] actual real word credits. So that's a [54:45] whole other thing as well. And I do you [54:48] know what? Those are the bits that [54:50] amazing program [54:50] >> keep me interested. Don't you think [54:52] that's just amazing? The one and a half [54:54] million. [54:54] >> It's fascinating. I love it. [54:57] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Really? And you know, [54:59] it's a great way to introduce WordPress [55:01] to the younger generation because we [55:02] already have a lot of not so young [55:04] people in the WordPress space. So [55:06] getting new people is the key thing. [55:08] >> I think he's looking at the [55:09] >> What are you saying here? What are you [55:11] saying here? [laughter] [55:12] >> I I have no words. Um yeah, I Dinda I [55:18] could be wrong about this, but it feels [55:20] like you're like the the part of the [55:23] world where you are, you're based in [55:24] India. Obviously, I kind of obsess about [55:26] WordPress and talk to a lot of people. [55:28] It does feel like it's um it's more hot, [55:32] let's go with that definition, in your [55:34] neck of the woods than it is here. Like [55:36] events everywhere. [55:39] >> There seems to be a lot of youth in it. [55:41] I'm kind of fascinated to see how Word [55:43] Camp Asia goes in Mumbai. Whether that's [55:45] going to be the first like four, five, [55:47] six, 7,000 attendee word camp. [55:50] >> Yes, it's going to be the biggest one. I [55:52] guess uh at least for flagship word [55:55] games because I I I because again you [55:58] know a lot of people want to attend [55:59] flagship word camps but there's the [56:01] factor of money and you know physibility [56:03] of you know taking leave from job [56:06] there's lot of things but when you it's [56:08] happening in your own country then you [56:09] can travel locally and you know attend [56:11] it and get the feel of it because a [56:14] flagship word camp has an allgether [56:16] different vibe compared to a local word [56:18] camp of like 200 or 300 people And yes [56:22] there is more. Why? Because here [56:24] youngsters are actually interested in [56:26] you know technology and all that and [56:28] WordPress is one of the big foundation [56:31] like because normally if you talk to [56:34] someone hey do you want to build a [56:36] website and say oh WordPress website or [56:38] a Wix they already know what Wix is what [56:39] Squarespace is what WordPress is. So [56:42] it's not like you're going to try to [56:43] explain what the difference. So [56:44] obviously you got to explain the [56:45] difference between WordPress hog and [56:47] WordPress.com like you know go step by [56:49] step but they are already familiar with [56:51] these things they know what plugins is [56:53] what themes are. So and plus we have lot [56:56] of local word camps. So that is like the [56:59] first you know step of introducing [57:01] people to WordPress. So plus they see [57:04] people making money right and money is a [57:06] big motivator let me tell you. [57:08] Yeah, it feels like um like it obviously [57:12] I'm not in India so I can't really make [57:14] the comparison directly but it feels [57:15] like it was here like 12 years ago or [57:18] something you know that kind of level of [57:20] excitement over there. Now you can even [57:22] compare now the plugins ecosystem like [57:25] if when I started in WordPress space [57:27] like like if you say first five or 10 [57:30] years in WordPress space most of the [57:31] plug-in companies came from UK, US or [57:34] maybe Australia these countries but now [57:36] if you see the dominance it's like [57:38] India, Bangladesh and you know like [57:40] Bangladesh has come out of nowhere right [57:42] and they are making really good products [57:45] right so you know it affects like if [57:47] someone's living next to me is making [57:49] amazing product I will also get that [57:51] vibe you know, why can't I do that? [57:53] >> So, really related to that, going back [57:55] to Matt's um speech at State of the [57:58] Word, here's some here's some [58:00] interesting data around that and some of [58:01] it's really curious. So, so for example, [58:04] I kind of had this intuition based upon [58:07] nothing that WordPress had kind of [58:09] flatlined a little bit and and it would [58:11] appear that that is in fact the case. [58:13] 43% of the web, I think we were probably [58:16] talking about the same number this time [58:18] last year. There was a bit of me which [58:20] was also kind of fearful that that would [58:22] gone down that that might have gone [58:24] down. I don't know why that would cause [58:26] fear in me but obviously nobody likes to [58:28] see the thing that they're doing with [58:29] their life going down but steady away [58:32] 43% of the web. Um but here's an [58:35] interesting point that Matt made that I [58:36] hadn't really given any thought to. He [58:38] was saying that imagine keeping it like [58:41] that in an era where companies like [58:44] Shopify have a massive marketing budget. [58:48] Uh you know where they can advertise on [58:50] television in the UK they're advertising [58:52] on the tube network on bus uh on the [58:55] telly all of that kind of stuff. [58:56] WordPress doesn't do anything like that. [58:58] So even just staying at 43% is kind of [59:02] fairly remarkable. And then um this is [59:06] curious. So, we're back into Asia, not [59:08] India specifically. Japan, country that [59:11] I haven't really given um much time to [59:14] on this show in the past. Japan, it [59:16] says, remains a standout market. 59%, [59:20] let's go with that. Slightly under, but [59:21] 59% of all all Japanese websites are [59:25] running on WordPress as their platform [59:27] of choice. The CMS market share for [59:30] WordPress is 83% [59:33] which is pretty phenomenal. And Japan is [59:36] now the second most used language uh [59:39] outside of English. Also, curiously, [59:43] English, which I think until this year [59:45] was always the the language that was [59:48] dominant in terms of like percentages, [59:51] that's now flipped. Uh is now no longer [59:53] the dominant one because 56% of [59:56] WordPress installs are now using a non [59:59] English language. So I guess Japan might [60:02] be you know Japanese might be a big part [60:03] of that and whatever variant of language [60:06] you're using if you're in India or [60:08] Bangladesh or what have you. So that I [60:10] think probably signals a shift not just [60:13] for Matt's thinking in terms of [60:16] WordPress um generally but you know more [60:19] specifically I imagine there's going to [60:20] be more of an effort to get into those [60:22] communities help those communities and [60:25] all of that kind of stuff. um the usual [60:28] things about themes and plugins and what [60:30] have you. And here's another eye [60:32] watering number if you didn't, you know, [60:34] if you want another one. WordPress [60:36] during the last year up until the date [60:38] of the uh of the event had been [60:41] downloaded 79.5 [60:43] million times. [60:46] >> Bogling, [60:47] >> isn't it? Isn't it just But uh so it [60:49] would appear that WordPress's de [60:51] demographics are definitely changing. um [60:54] you know it's it feels like it's skewing [60:57] much more towards [60:59] uh Asia and that part of the world which [61:02] I think is obviously quite exciting if [61:04] you're in that part of the world. [61:05] Anybody want to add anything to those [61:07] bits and pieces? I feel there was a lot [61:08] to unpack there. [61:11] >> I think the flexibility WordPress gives [61:13] it's still going to grow. Yes, there was [61:15] a chatter that the you know like you [61:17] said like the growth of the WordPress [61:19] has stalled or paused or plateaued but I [61:22] think the flexibility part the freedom [61:24] part will always make WordPress grow and [61:26] plus the community this year yes prior [61:29] to la this year there was little bit of [61:32] negativity in the community we all know [61:33] why but this year things have been [61:35] positive and people are doing positive [61:38] things. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [61:40] >> I I agree. I think that once we got back [61:42] to just keeping our eyes forward and [61:45] focusing on what was important, [61:48] um it's it the the power of what [61:52] WordPress offers is still unprecedented [61:55] and and unmatchable. So, we just need to [61:58] keep our eyes looking at what's [62:00] important and and stick with that. [62:04] >> Indeed. Indeed. Um there will be more [62:07] bits and pieces linked to all of these [62:09] different things uh in the show notes. [62:12] But I think one of the areas like if you [62:14] ignore the geography whether it's [62:15] growing in you know India or the UK or [62:18] Australia or wherever it may be I think [62:20] undeniably one of the areas of growth in [62:22] terms of the tech is this bit. So this [62:26] is James Leage's website. By the way [62:28] James what the heck? James snagged a [62:32] onelet domain name. Um, he's got the [62:35] domain J.Cv. [laughter] [62:40] So, the entire domain is three letters. [62:42] That's well done. Um, James Leage is the [62:46] is the head I think head. I want to say [62:48] head. I don't know if he's like the [62:49] co-lead or but I think head of the AI [62:51] endeavors over at Automatic. He was one [62:53] of the people on stage. If you're [62:55] looking at the screen, you'll be able to [62:57] see there's a photo of him on stage with [62:58] Matt and Mary and and Felix Ants and uh [63:01] is that Jeffrey Paul, I think, as well. [63:04] And um they were on stage talking about [63:06] AI and you know AI and I sorry Tammy uh [63:12] [laughter] we have this sort of strange [63:15] kind of relationship but I am definitely [63:18] in the minority. Everybody seems to be [63:20] absolutely bowled over by AI and all the [63:22] different things it can do. And James [63:25] has produced an article where he sort of [63:26] lays out what they're doing at [63:28] Automatic. And one of the things which I [63:32] think is curious that comes out of this [63:33] article and he's and he goes he really [63:36] does drill this down. He sort of makes [63:38] the point and then amplifies it. He said [63:41] what would usually be a year's worth of [63:43] development takes place in a month now. [63:47] So what the heck? How [laughter] [63:50] how do you keep up with that? So he [63:52] gives an example that you know they'd [63:54] done the prep work for the presentation [63:56] at state of the word and then the day [63:58] before that presentation um Deep Seat [64:01] dropped this new AI which was like [64:03] equivalent to chat GPT5 and all of a [64:05] sudden you've got to go back to the [64:07] drawing board and kind of realign all [64:08] the different bits and pieces or what [64:10] have you. Anyway, the AI endeavors in [64:12] WordPress can be thought of in four [64:14] stages. the abilities API, the WP AI [64:18] client, the MCP adapter, and the AI [64:21] experiments plugin. And it would appear [64:25] that WordPress rather than try to be an [64:28] AI client, you know, rather than have an [64:31] account with WordPress.com where you go [64:33] and get your AI, the idea is that [64:36] WordPress is going to build solutions at [64:38] this other abstracted layer so that you [64:41] can do all the things in WordPress by [64:43] binding it to some other AI. And uh and [64:46] in that way they they kind of feel that [64:48] they're going to futureproof themselves [64:50] because the AI itself the the engine [64:52] that's driving the actual interactions [64:55] going backwards and forwards is not [64:56] going to be a WordPress thing. It's [64:58] going to be something else. So [64:59] fascinating, [65:02] scary, and interesting at the same time. [65:03] I don't know what your thoughts are on [65:05] AI, but I'm going to let you have some [65:07] if you wish. [65:09] >> Yeah, it's good. They're working on the [65:11] foundation part of it. The usable [65:13] features are slowly creeping in. Like if [65:15] you see SEO plugins, you know, generate [65:17] title metadata text and they have [65:19] actually included this feature in that [65:21] AI experiments plug-in, generate the [65:24] title and all that, but other third [65:26] party plugins are already doing that by [65:27] connecting to you know AI other AI [65:30] models and all that. So AI is going to [65:32] be big but not now but the good part is [65:35] they are doing a kind of a head start in [65:38] building the foundation part of it so [65:39] that others can come in and use that [65:41] foundation to build something useful. [65:44] Yeah, that's right. James is a great [65:46] pains to sort of say that this is like a [65:48] foundational layer. I Yeah, I I don't [65:51] know. I I'm I'm curious to see how this [65:53] goes. I Tammy, you I know you want to [65:57] hit me over the head at this point, but [65:59] [laughter] we'll see. We'll see how it [66:01] all goes. But, uh certainly a lot of [66:03] work being done. [66:04] >> Yeah. I I my concern I think is [66:08] with AI in general, this is just a is is [66:11] that we try to do too much too fast and [66:14] when that happens then you know how you [66:18] know what happens if somebody puts [66:20] something out in WordPress that breaks [66:22] everything because you know and you have [66:25] to go back and and figure it out because [66:27] there's like five million new things to [66:29] WordPress as opposed to two or three new [66:30] things to WordPress and and so I think [66:33] that the As with everything with [66:35] technology is I always have concerns [66:38] about our discipline more than I [66:41] actually have about the technology [66:43] itself. [66:45] >> Um I'm with you. Uh Tammy helpfully [66:48] though said she's not going to hit me [66:49] over the head with a bat because she's [66:51] too jet-lagged. That's good. Uh you [66:54] remain [66:55] >> next week. Watch out. [66:56] >> Yeah. Do you know what though? The the [66:58] the bit that kind of I wonder is with [67:01] with the AI stuff creeping into the [67:03] editor. So, it can do your meta tags and [67:05] it can do your descriptions and like [67:07] Dinda said, you know, it can do your SEO [67:09] stuff. Um, where where does all the [67:12] human time come to read all of this [67:14] stuff? I I guess that's the bit that I [67:16] that sort of concerns me a little bit is [67:18] that in in an effort to produce more and [67:20] more content. I just don't know who the [67:22] audience uh is for more and more of this [67:25] content. [67:26] >> And you know, it's not just about [67:27] content. Uh the other day I was reading [67:29] a you know following a conversation [67:31] where someone said like we don't need to [67:33] buy plugins anymore. We I can just use [67:35] AI to spin up a plugin and I'm done with [67:37] it. And I thought like we don't buy a [67:39] plug-in for the code. We buy it for [67:41] support and updates. How is your AI [67:43] generated plug-in going to update for a [67:45] security issue? Right. [67:47] >> So this is like you know it's not a [67:52] >> Yeah. Go ahead Mark. [67:53] >> Yeah. Oh I was just going to say that's [67:54] what I've heard. I've heard people say, [67:56] "Yeah, it's great to spin up a plugin, [67:57] but what happens next week when you have [68:00] to update it or anything like that?" If [68:02] you don't if you know how to vibe code, [68:05] but you don't know how to do anything [68:06] beyond that, you still need to have [68:07] somebody that's able to to go in and and [68:11] either fix things or or change things or [68:14] upgrade things. And I think that that's [68:17] where AI right now falls short. I think [68:19] it will eventually get there where where [68:23] there may be no human interaction, [68:25] [laughter] [68:26] >> but who knows? I just sort of feel like [68:28] I'm a bit discombobulated by it all [68:29] because it's all coming so thick and so [68:31] fast and the the horizon is so broad and [68:35] and it it was a long way away and now [68:37] it's suddenly rushing towards us and [68:39] there's so many different things that it [68:40] can do and I don't really know that that [68:42] we've kind of figured out where we sit [68:44] inside of that relationship to it yet [68:47] and maybe you know give it another year [68:49] another two years we'll have figured out [68:50] okay it's useful for that but it's not [68:52] useful for that and it you know we [68:54] thought it'd be fun to do that kind of [68:56] thing and it turns out nobody wants to [68:58] read that kind of thing. So, okay. But [69:00] Tammy makes the point that, you know, [69:02] the way that WordPress is approaching it [69:04] is that they're doing tools inside of [69:06] core uh so that you can Yeah. Well, I'll [69:10] read what she says rather than try and [69:12] interpret it. Uh Tammy says, which is [69:14] why we're doing tools approach in core. [69:16] There is the discipline. Yeah. Okay. [69:19] Thank you, Tommy. I appreciate it. [69:20] Conversation is not going to end. I'm [69:22] sure we'll figure it out. But we do have [69:23] uh it is a big part of WordPress's [69:27] future in the year 2026. Uh there is a [69:30] lot coming. I would highly recommend [69:32] that you read um James Lee's article. [69:35] I'll put it into the show notes so that [69:37] you can have a little look. There's a [69:40] few more bits and pieces. I'll just [69:41] mention these briefly. These are a few [69:43] things which have dropped in WordPress [69:44] 6.9 that you may not have noticed but [69:47] there's a few articles which help us to [69:49] do that. So this is aki. This is nice. [69:52] It's like a tiny little thing, but it's [69:53] a big thing at the same time. You can [69:54] now hide and show blocks on the uh the [69:57] front end. Um there's a little video [69:59] here. I won't play it, but essentially [70:01] there's a menu item. Now, if you [70:03] rightclick on a block uh or use the [70:05] little, you know, the little panel above [70:07] the block when you interact with it, you [70:09] can hide a block and it will just [70:10] disappear off the front end. Obviously, [70:12] it's still visible in the in the [70:14] inserter or or the panel on the left [70:16] hand side. So, you can still see that [70:18] it's there. But, you know, I don't know, [70:20] you may want to just take a paragraph [70:22] away or something like that briefly or [70:23] an image or something like that. You can [70:25] now do that. That's built in to [70:27] WordPress 6.9. [70:29] Um, there's a couple of other things as [70:32] well. What did we mention? Yeah, there's [70:34] the hide show blocks. We just talked [70:36] about that. This is lovely. Like, this I [70:40] love. Um, this is visual drag and drop. [70:43] I'm such a such a page builder lover. I [70:45] think it goes to my core. Um, so this is [70:49] the ability to pick stuff up on the [70:51] canvas of the Gutenberg editor. If you [70:53] like, instead of using little arrows to [70:56] move things around, like a paragraph up [70:57] and a paragraph down, you now just grab [70:59] the paragraph with the mouse. Just sort [71:02] of move it where you want it to go and [71:04] uh, let go. And there it now lives. I [71:06] can't believe that wasn't a thing. [71:09] Actually, I've never missed it. And now [71:11] it's there. I'll be I think I'll be [71:13] using it all the time. I [snorts] wonder [71:15] how many times I'll get things wrong and [71:17] publish an article where the paragraphs [71:18] are all in the wrong place because I've [71:20] accidentally picked something up and [71:22] dropped it. I do that with blocks quite [71:24] a lot. Uh what else have we got? UI [71:27] workflows. The accordion block we [71:30] mentioned before. You've got the ability [71:33] uh term query and companion blocks. Time [71:36] to read block. Everybody's favorite, the [71:39] maths block that's going to be used by [71:41] everyone all the time. [snorts] [71:44] >> Love your sarcasm. [laughter] [71:45] >> Yeah. Does I mean I I guess I mean [71:50] >> when will we ever use math in real life? [71:52] >> Does it satisfy the 80/20 rule in [71:54] WordPress though? That's what I want to [71:56] know. [71:56] >> You know the funny thing is like out of [71:58] all the features listed here, I'm I will [72:00] be using and the most excited thing for [72:02] me is the hide and display block. I know [72:05] some people call it like it's a dumb [72:07] feature, but you know what? [laughter] [72:08] Lot of people going to use this feature. [72:11] >> Yeah, I saw that and I and I fell in [72:13] love with it immediately. Same thing. [72:14] Just like [72:16] >> Well, it's like that kind of like in the [72:17] past if you really wanted to make major [72:19] amendments to an article. You had to [72:22] publish it in you have to unpublish it [72:24] or put it back into draft or something [72:25] like that. Whereas now, [72:27] >> we get it and you know, [72:28] >> yeah, you could just rewrite entire [72:30] sections of it. just hide hide hide hide [72:31] hide and then just you know come back to [72:34] it. It's still published. You're not [72:36] going to use lose the SEO juice. I think [72:38] actually Dinda it's going to become [72:39] really powerful and I I get what you [72:41] mean. When we look at these things it's [72:43] easy to sort of make fence and say oh [72:45] the maths block somebody's going to love [72:48] that. [72:49] >> Normal users you know they they want to [72:51] use simple features they don't know what [72:53] abilities API is right. [72:55] >> Yeah yeah yeah exactly. Anyway, there it [72:58] is. [72:59] >> The hide block though for people who [73:01] have ADHD like me'll be like, I swear I [73:05] put it in there. Why isn't it showing [73:07] that? [73:08] >> Yet, we [laughter] are so in the [73:11] >> Why? Why does this site Why is the site [73:13] using up so many resources? I don't see [73:15] anything. It's all those giant photos [73:17] you've hidden. [laughter] [73:18] >> Let me see if I can see it. I don't [73:20] think it shows on this particular UI, [73:22] but I think you get like, you know, that [73:24] icon. There it is. you know the um the [73:26] icon that's taken over it's like the [73:28] little eye icon. [73:29] >> You either get a little closed eye or an [73:31] open eye icon. So in that way you can [73:33] tell [73:34] >> see it if you pop up at that you are [73:37] right about that. Yes. [laughter] [73:38] >> All right Michelle you need to put a [73:40] post-it note check for the hidden block [73:43] and just stick it on your computer all [73:45] over my monitor. [73:46] >> That's the way. [73:47] >> Actually I don't know what the UX is [73:49] going to be for that. So I'm hovering my [73:51] mouse over the insertter. it. I don't [73:54] know if the little eye icon if the [73:55] paragraph will I'm presuming it will [73:57] stay in this panel here but have the [74:00] icon next to it. But it might be quite [74:02] nice a bit like when you edit I don't [74:04] know a template part or something like [74:05] that. It's in a different color. Might [74:08] be quite nice to have a a different [74:09] colored you know the paragraph instead [74:11] of it being in black text it suddenly [74:13] goes to red or [74:14] >> something. It's kind of Photoshop like [74:16] Photoshop does the same thing. You can [74:18] just click the um but it doesn't change [74:20] the color. I like that idea for sure. [74:22] >> You see, that's that is my good idea for [74:24] 2025. [74:25] >> That's your good idea right there. You [74:27] got it. [74:28] >> Finally. I've only got or so left. [74:31] [laughter] That's my good idea. Um [74:32] >> I do joke I joke about it, but I think [74:34] it's a great feature. [74:36] >> Yeah, indeed. Then we got a few curious [74:38] things like the time to read block. You [74:40] know, you can imagine that would be kind [74:41] of useful if you're um doing blog [74:43] articles. um you've got the capacity now [74:45] if you drop in a one of these blocks [74:48] which is the comment count and comment [74:49] links block. I know that you know I [74:52] imagine it's quite hard these days what [74:54] with Facebook and Twitter and everything [74:55] to get comments but I know that some [74:57] properties still get lots of that. You [74:59] can show the number of comments you know [75:00] like we've got 15 comments over here or [75:03] something like that. Uh and then there's [75:05] a whole bunch of other stuff um gallery [75:07] aspect ratios yada yada yada lots and [75:10] lots and lots of stuff. So, okay. I [75:12] think [75:13] >> I think we should bring back a a site [75:14] counter um like we had back in the '9s. [75:18] So, like a for retro blogs, it could be [75:20] like how many times [75:22] >> day or the day? [75:24] >> I would like to get rid I'd like to get [75:25] rid of the time to read anything because [75:27] I either feel inadequate or like I'm [75:29] competing with somebody. [laughter] [75:32] what you should get write a Chrome [75:34] extension which identifies if there's a [75:37] time to read uh thing on any website and [75:40] then it multiplies it by 15 or something [75:42] like that. [75:43] >> There you go. [laughter] [75:44] >> Time to read 8,000 minutes. It only took [75:47] me a week. [75:47] >> I can do that. Yeah, [laughter] [75:49] I can do that. Okay, so that's good. Um, [75:53] right. Okay, I think that's WordPress [75:55] 8.9 done. Right, very quickly then. We [75:57] don't have much time left. I saw this [75:59] piece. I think this came in Deinda's [76:01] newsletter. I think I cribbed this from [76:02] his newsletter this morning. Um, it's [76:04] over on LinkedIn. Um, and it was AD [76:07] Spak. AD is a a developer who has a [76:10] plug-in called Translate Press, which is [76:13] a bit like a kind of page builder for [76:15] doing your translations. He's been [76:17] looking carefully at Black Friday deal [76:19] promotions in the WordPress space, and [76:21] he's drawn a couple of conclusions from [76:23] them. Uh, I don't know how obsessed you [76:25] got about this, but obviously if you're [76:26] a developer like he is and your [76:28] livelihood is wrapped around Black [76:30] Friday and things like that, then it's [76:31] important to know what everybody else is [76:33] doing. Drawn a couple of conclusions. [76:35] The first one is he's noticed a strong [76:38] push to increase the average order value [76:40] and lifetime value. And he's saying that [76:42] more companies are structuring their [76:43] black black Friday deals to nudge [76:46] customers into higher tiers. I think if [76:48] we cast our mind back just a few years [76:50] ago, the Black Friday thing was all [76:52] about getting new users to sign up um [76:56] not to push existing users onto the next [77:00] higher tier. So that's the curious [77:01] observation. The second observation that [77:04] he noticed was um this thing which I've [77:06] I I confess I've seen this a lot this [77:08] year, higher renewal prices. So the idea [77:11] that you deeply discount this one-year [77:14] package and then you offer it at, you [77:17] know, some sort of usual rate next year. [77:19] So you might offer, I don't know, 70 80% [77:22] in some cases I saw this year and then [77:24] you just return them to the normal [77:26] pricing. So you know the hope is that [77:28] they I just either make use of it or [77:32] dare I say it forget to cancel or [77:35] something like that. any does it I mean [77:38] I'm guessing Da Vinder if you included [77:39] it in your newsletter you must have [77:41] thought this was interesting. [77:42] >> Yeah because uh these trends are on [77:45] point. The other thing that probably he [77:47] missed is like companies that have [77:48] multiple products they are actually [77:50] promoting their bundles so that people [77:52] buy whole bouquet of their plugins. They [77:54] get more revenue from one transaction [77:56] because if you buy 10 plugins in a [77:58] bundle you're not going to use all those [77:59] 10 plugins. So you're not expecting 10x [78:01] support requests, right? Yeah. [78:03] >> So that's there and this renewal thing [78:06] like higher renewal and you know 50% [78:08] discount on first this has been there [78:10] for few years now and I think automotive [78:14] products have championed this and now [78:16] everyone is following it and it does [78:18] make sense because it basically gives [78:19] the user to a chance to try the product [78:22] at a very discounted you know price and [78:25] obviously if it's working the person [78:27] will renew it at a so-called higher [78:29] rate. [78:31] >> Yeah. Um I I saw um Katie Keith put a [78:35] post out on X where she was sort you see [78:37] that one where she was saying she's very [78:38] candid Katie isn't she [78:40] >> I saw that one too. [78:41] >> She was saying that she does this whole [78:43] Awesome Motive dance where like right [78:46] before Black Friday she goes through and [78:48] cancels all the Awesome Motive products [78:50] and then signs up again for Black [78:52] Friday. Um because she knows she's going [78:54] to get this one I I don't know how [78:56] [laughter] that works. you know whether [78:57] she has to supply a new email address or [78:59] something and there was you know broad [79:02] appreciation I think for that but also [79:04] some people are why don't you just pay [79:05] them you know what it is but it was kind [79:08] of interesting that people do that dance [79:09] in the expectation that you know that's [79:12] what's happening every black Friday I [79:13] can pick up everything cheap [79:15] >> yeah once they figure out how to attach [79:18] a license to a specific domain this [79:20] dance is going to stop [79:21] >> yeah yeah yeah okay okay you've just [79:25] provided the [79:26] Um and the final thing which AD figured [79:30] out which is very much you know is in [79:32] his own wheelhouse is that there were no [79:34] um almost nobody in the translation [79:37] press space was doing a Black Friday [79:39] deal. So I'm guessing he's thinking [79:41] about things like we got and companies [79:43] like that. Apparently they on mass had [79:45] all opted out of uh doing Black Friday [79:47] deals. I don't know how long the Black [79:49] Friday thing last will last but it seems [79:52] super popular everywhere. Did you do one [79:54] at MainWP? [79:56] >> We We did. We are on We're on your page. [79:59] Uh we and and it's 25% off and and it [80:02] the renewal the way that we do it is [80:05] that's lifetime. So every single year at [80:07] renewal you buy the annual and you get [80:10] uh $50 off. [80:12] >> Okay. [80:12] >> And next year you would get $50 off and [80:14] the year after that you'd get $50 off. [80:16] And um and the way that the way that we [80:19] look at it is a we don't need people [80:22] doing the dance, [80:24] >> b uh the longer people use our product, [80:27] the less they're going to need support. [80:29] And so um so it it ends up being a [80:35] longer lifetime value to us actually. [80:38] We've discovered by just renewing at the [80:43] Black Friday price. Uh the thing that I [80:46] noticed which I found interesting uh [80:49] this year is I remember when Black [80:52] Friday was Friday through Monday. [80:54] >> Oh. [80:54] >> And now now it starts in on November [80:57] 1st. I'm surprised it doesn't start on [81:00] July 5th or [81:01] >> Oh no. January the 1st will be the next. [81:03] And [81:05] it, you know, I I what I found [81:08] interesting was um when we we have a [81:10] roundup similar to yours, Nathan, and I [81:13] think we got over 225 [81:16] offers or something. And um what I found [81:20] interesting was that [81:23] this year people were willing to [81:26] announce what their Black Friday special [81:28] was ahead of time, far ahead of when it [81:30] actually went active. Whereas last year, [81:34] anyone if they said that their that [81:35] their special started on say November [81:38] 24th, [81:39] um they wouldn't want it actually listed [81:42] until November 24th. [81:43] >> Yeah. [81:44] >> This year they were willing to list it [81:46] like way ahead of time so people would [81:48] know what was coming. And I found that [81:50] that to be kind of an interesting trend. [81:52] Well, don't you think that's curious [81:53] that like so when you submit it to my [81:56] page, I make it really clear on the [81:58] intake form that the minute I publish it [82:00] or rather the minute that you send it to [82:02] me, I'm going to put it on the website. [82:04] So in some cases, I'm getting those in [82:06] late September. So their their their [82:10] decrease pricing is fully available for [82:13] two months. [82:14] >> That is to say, people know that it's [82:17] going to be decreased in two months. And [82:20] I I find the psychology of that so [82:22] curious like what it'd be a bit like [82:25] going into a clothes store and saying [82:27] we've got a sale in six weeks. Uh but we [82:31] still got things at full price now if [82:33] you want them. And I I guess it's I [82:35] guess it just comes down to sort of like [82:36] well desperation is not really the right [82:38] word but something akin to that that [82:40] they know that there's just going to be [82:42] this melee for a period of time. [82:45] Everybody's only got a certain amount of [82:46] money in their wallet. So, they're [82:48] trying to position themselves so that [82:50] we've got 80% off over here and you know [82:52] about it long in advance, right? You're [82:53] going to ear $50 for our thing, not [82:56] their thing. But boy, it gets messy. I [82:59] mean, I don't [82:59] >> Yeah, but on the other hand, I mean, I [83:01] just had a project in fact that I that I [83:04] just started uh two months ago. I knew [83:08] that a couple of the plugins that I was [83:10] going to need were going to have Black [83:11] Fridays, but I needed the plugin then [83:12] because I needed to get on the project [83:14] and and and of course these are all [83:17] smaller people anyway and and I want to [83:19] support them so it doesn't bother me [83:21] that much. [83:22] >> Good. Good. Well, I'm I'm pleased to [83:23] hear about it. So, um Mark, [83:25] >> I even ran I'm sorry. I even ran a Black [83:28] Friday special on my small little [83:30] marketing boutique and I had two people [83:32] make purchases who knew a special and [83:36] opted not to use the discount code so [83:38] that I would get the full value of their [83:39] product. [83:41] >> That's really awesome. Awesome. [83:43] >> There's an interesting idea. The idea of [83:45] opting out of the Black Friday just cuz [83:47] you want to do the full monty. Yeah, [83:49] that's curious. [83:49] >> And I did get two submissions which had [83:52] in capital letters, do not publish this [83:54] till the day [clears throat] it starts. [83:56] And I was really [83:58] >> it's actually it's actually a question [83:59] on our form. And so when I go through [84:01] and approve the approve the listing, uh [84:05] if they say that they don't want to [84:06] listen until such and such a date, then [84:07] I just set the publish date as that. And [84:10] it's still it's still automated to I [84:12] mean I have to approve everything [84:14] anyway. So [84:14] >> Yep. Um so uh who is this? Mark. Mark. [84:19] Mark in the UK. Hello. Mark Wilkinson. [84:21] He says he really doesn't get Black [84:22] Friday deals. Mark's got a few plugins [84:24] out there. Um, so I'm guessing Mark that [84:26] you don't participate in that there [84:28] wouldn't be a dance. He said if you [84:30] value your product and always sell it at [84:32] that price. Yeah, that's the other [84:33] curious thing, isn't it? I suppose is [84:35] that whole kind of weird thing from the [84:37] end use. But we're so used to it [84:39] everywhere, aren't we? It's just [84:40] everybody um uh gets on board and is [84:44] dealing cheaper deals. Mark says, sorry, [84:47] this is Marcus Bennett. Uh, I'd share my [84:49] deal a month ahead on your list, but I [84:51] wouldn't advertise that on my own site [84:53] until the deal starts. Interesting. [84:55] Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, that makes [84:57] sense. Yeah. So, you advertise it on [84:59] these third party places, these sort of [85:00] aggregated places, but not on your your [85:03] own website. [85:03] >> Actually, along those lines, I noticed [85:06] uh I think Gravity Forms was one of the [85:08] ones that said our Black Friday special [85:10] starts, and they had a countdown timer [85:11] on when their Black Friday like 3 days [85:13] or 5 days or whatever ahead. So, that [85:16] was interesting, too. So, they actually [85:17] did advertise on their site that it was [85:19] coming. [85:20] >> I wonder how many people shelled out for [85:23] stuff that they didn't need this Black [85:24] Friday. I kind of make it a bit of a [85:26] point on Black Friday to try to stay [85:28] away from all that chaos because I uh I [85:31] find it very easy to spend money that I [85:33] shouldn't. [laughter] [85:34] >> I bought this little plugin called [85:36] Podcaster Plus. [85:37] >> Oh, what the heck? [85:42] >> I got this lifetime deal, so I think it [85:45] was worth it. [85:46] >> Yeah. Yeah, hopefully. Hopefully, [85:47] Michelle, it's uh yeah, we can mention [85:50] that another time. Um it's not about [85:52] that here right now. Um what does [85:55] Patricia say? Patricia says, uh so she's [85:58] responding to Mark, who you know is [85:59] obviously not in favor of those deals. I [86:01] like deals as a buyer, but I don't [86:03] understand from a seller point of view, [86:04] like not valuing your customers from [86:07] other months. Interesting. Anyway, there [86:10] was the piece by AD. It's on LinkedIn. [86:11] Again, links in the show notes. Right, [86:14] very quickly because time is running [86:15] short. I'm going to miss that. I'm also [86:17] going to miss that. I mentioned it [86:18] already. Just a couple of things which [86:21] came into my world this week. In many [86:24] cases, just new plugins that I thought [86:25] you might like to check out. I've not [86:27] heard of them before. If you have, [86:29] apologies. They may not be brand new. [86:31] So, this is the first one. It's called [86:32] Opinion Camp, and it's going to be a a [86:35] free poll plugin, or at least they've [86:37] got a free option. So, if you want to do [86:38] polls on your WordPress website, this is [86:40] an option. Honestly, I'm going to give [86:42] each one that amount of time. We could [86:44] have delved into them, but I've run out [86:45] of time. So, here we go. The next one is [86:48] um ebook crafter, which enables you to [86:51] turn a WordPress post into like an ebook [86:54] basically. You click a button and it [86:55] becomes [86:56] >> an ebook. Start a free trial. So, I'm [86:58] guessing they got a pro version as well. [86:59] Don't know whether it's [87:00] >> I purchased this. [87:02] >> Yeah. You like it [87:04] >> prior to Yeah. Still working on some of [87:06] the, you know, the glitches in it. I [87:08] don't want to say glitches, but yeah, [87:09] >> he's making it better. He's absolutely [87:11] making it better as it goes with a lot [87:12] of feedback. So I I was an early [87:14] purchaser. He gave it to me for free. I [87:16] went back and purchased it to support um [87:18] to support him. But also it's a great [87:20] idea and because I have taken a blog and [87:22] turned it into a book, I wanted to be [87:24] able to um to experiment with it. [87:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. At the moment is [87:28] touting PDFs, but I don't know if that's [87:30] going to be more formats in the future, [87:32] like you know, Kindle compatible things, [87:33] stuff like that. Okay, the next one. [87:36] Loving this one. This is so great. Uh [87:39] this is called neurogenesis styler and [87:43] uh what it's doing is injecting into [87:45] core blocks more style CSS options [87:50] nothing more that's it. So you know how [87:52] there's loads of things that you wish to [87:54] do that you have to open up a I don't [87:56] know a text editor or an IDE or you know [87:58] have a plugin which will enable you to [88:00] have CSS somewhere on your site. This [88:03] will do that for call block. So, it adds [88:05] options for typography, background, [88:07] border radius, spacing, visual effects, [88:09] block sizing, and more. And there's a [88:11] lovely picture down here, which kind of [88:13] sums up the entire plug-in, you know, [88:15] just kind of what you'd expect. Really, [88:18] I I love this sort of stuff. Makes makes [88:20] WordPress core seem so cool when third [88:23] party people come along and do stuff [88:25] like that. Uh, this one I got kind of [88:28] got caught out here. I just assumed that [88:30] the fluent people, you know, uh WP [88:32] manage ninja were behind this and I [88:34] don't think Dinda, that's not true, [88:36] right? This is not a fluent product. [88:38] >> No, this is a third party product. I [88:40] think it's by Spencer forman. [88:42] >> Oh, that's it. Yeah, Spencer for Thank [88:44] you. Um and it's if you've got the [88:46] Fluent suite, so you know, um they're [88:49] taking over the world, aren't they? It's [88:50] like they're doing everything so well. [88:52] Uh if you've got their one of their [88:54] suites like Fluent Forms, Fluent CRM, [88:56] Fluent Cart and all the other ones, you [88:59] might want to connect it to some kind of [89:01] AI and Fluent uh MCP is a third party [89:05] solution which will help you to do that. [89:08] Links in the show notes. These are [89:10] plugins which used to cost money but [89:12] have now been made free. Uh WP road map, [89:16] so you know like canban boards for road [89:18] maps for products, that kind of thing. [89:20] You get the idea. I'm sure you've seen [89:21] things like that before. And by the same [89:24] developer, uh, YouTube for WordPress, [89:26] which enables you to put on your [89:28] website, you know, YouTube videos and [89:30] playlists and all the kind of stuff that [89:32] you might see on the actual word, uh, [89:34] YouTube website. You can do that inside [89:36] of WordPress. They used to be paid and [89:38] now they're free. I don't know if the [89:40] developer has found other things to do [89:42] or if it's going to be maintained, but [89:43] anyway, there we go. Uh, penultimate one [89:47] is this one. It's over on GitHub. It's a [89:50] virtual media folder plugin. And this [89:52] I'm just going to read it out from the [89:53] about section here. Virtual media [89:55] folders brings virtual folder [89:57] organization to your WordPress media [89:59] library. Organize your media files into [90:01] hierarchical folders without actually [90:03] moving anything on the disk. Your [90:05] folders are virtual. Uh so the URLs of [90:08] your bits and pieces never change. I'm [90:10] sure that there are third party plugins [90:12] that you can pay for that do this [90:13] already. I know that there are, but this [90:15] one Yeah. Anyway, there it is. It's on [90:17] GitHub, so you can check it out. And no, [90:20] this is the penultimate one. Um, if you [90:22] attended last year, I know an did. Um, [90:26] the the CloudFest hackathon is coming [90:28] back in the year 2026. It's going to be [90:30] on March the 20th through the 22nd. You [90:33] have to apply uh to be in the room and [90:37] so hit this button here, links in the [90:39] show notes, but the URL is [90:40] hackathon.cloudfest.com. [90:44] Uh, I've got an episode on the WP Bills [90:47] podcast coming out with an in the near [90:50] future where we talk a little bit about [90:52] last year's event. So maybe go and check [90:54] that website out. And the last one I'm [90:56] not going to reveal until the very last [90:58] moment. I'm just going to ask Michelle [91:00] what she'd been up to with Mark [91:02] Westgard. [91:04] >> So So Mark and I have decided this year [91:07] because you know he's one of my [91:08] WordPress besties that we exchange gifts [91:10] for Christmas every year. And this year [91:12] we get because of just, you know, budget [91:14] and things like that, we set a $25 limit [91:17] and decided it had to make the other [91:18] person laugh. Now, my gift to him has [91:20] not arrived yet, so I can't tell you all [91:22] publicly what it is because he hasn't [91:24] seen it yet, but his gift to me arrived [91:27] on Saturday, and I did post it on [91:30] Twitter and all of the socials. Uh, so [91:33] you're welcome to share that now on [91:34] screen. [laughter] [91:36] >> I love stuff like this. I have no idea. [91:40] Like what what even is [laughter] that? [91:42] It's like a giant soft [91:45] one of those dancing like you see them [91:47] often at like car dealerships. The note [91:50] said not only was it for Christmas, but [91:51] it was for the grand opening of my [91:55] online business. [laughter] [91:57] Can you can you imagine the day that cuz [92:01] I'm guessing right I'm guessing that [92:03] this product was probably a kid [92:06] >> in a room somewhere with a vacuum [92:08] cleaner who turned it on to blow instead [92:10] of sock somehow connected it to some [92:13] sort of fabric and this happened and [92:15] they immediately wet themselves laughing [92:18] put some eyes on it were like oh [92:20] >> oh we've got a product I love stuff like [92:23] this [92:23] >> I don't believe that Twitter and I [92:25] didn't check but I don't believe that [92:26] Twitter lets you put alt text for video [92:28] yet. So, I did include an alt [92:30] description which just says the video is [92:31] an inflatable tube man powered by a fan. [92:34] It's rat about 6 feet tall and it's [92:36] dancing in my living room for anybody [92:38] who [92:38] >> you know what's great about that. What's [92:41] great about that is it will always make [92:43] you laugh. It's not just going to make [92:44] you laugh once. It's going to make you [92:46] laugh every time you see it. [92:48] >> It's in my living room. So now when I [92:50] know people are coming over and I want [92:52] to really welcome them, I turn it on [92:54] before they arrive and they walk in and [92:56] I'm like, "Just for you." [92:57] >> Yes. For you, [laughter] Michelle. Next [92:59] time you're on this show, it's got to be [93:02] where those guitars are. I want it in [93:03] the background. I want it the whole [93:05] time. [93:05] >> It's so loud. [93:06] >> Oh, is it? [93:07] >> It has such [laughter] a fan like the [93:09] fan noise in it. I mean, I could mute [93:11] myself and let you see it briefly, but [93:14] but it is very loud. [laughter] [93:15] >> Yep. Yep. Yep. Okay. Right. There we go. [93:18] Um, [93:19] >> anyway, I wanted to share that. [93:20] >> No, that's good. Love it. Right, a [93:22] couple of comments just before we go. [93:23] Courtney says, "I've long loved [93:25] Pressbooks." I guess that's the plugin [93:26] that we were looking at for self. Oh, [93:28] no, no, no, no. This is something else [93:30] for self-hosting ebook and eop creation [93:33] uses multi-sightes. That's a different [93:34] solution. [93:35] >> Thank you very much. And [93:39] an who I just mentioned said that the [93:41] Cloud Fest hackathon is so worthwhile [93:43] applying for. An has won it two years in [93:46] a row. So, you know, you've got to upend [93:48] her. She's on for the trifecta [93:52] this year. So, can't can't stop An in [93:56] her tracks. There we go. That's it. That [93:59] is all we've got time for. Appreciate [94:01] Firstly, I'm going to big shout out to [94:03] Michelle and to Deinda who stepped in at [94:06] the 11th hour. Um, however, Mark does is [94:09] not immune to thanks because he was up [94:11] at like stupid o' [laughter] [94:14] >> It wasn't the 11th hour. It was the 5:00 [94:16] a.m. hour. [94:16] >> Yes, the five. Yeah, that's right. And [94:19] uh and I really appreciate that as well. [94:22] So, thank you to you three. Really [94:24] appreciate it. But also, thanks to [94:25] anybody that dropped by and left a [94:27] comment. That's lovely, too. It keeps [94:28] the show going and driving it forward. [94:30] There's only one last humiliating thing [94:32] for the three of us, four of us to do. [94:35] There's there's my inability to count [94:37] again. Is to give us the hands. Give us [94:39] the slight handy wavy thing. And there [94:41] we go. And I will publish that. And we [94:44] will see you next week for another [94:45] episode of This Week in WordPress [94:47] featuring who knows who. [94:48] >> Bye everybody. [94:50] >> Take care. Take care. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. [94:52] Bye-bye.