WP Café #136 Moving away from multisite - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

WP Café #136 | Moving away from multisite 🔗 **Source:** [WP Café #136 | Moving away from multisite](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skVmR5QpImA) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [wordpress, multisite, local-development] > author: WP Café Show > source: YouTube > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skVmR5QpImA > date created: 2025-01-15 14:30 > > # 🏷️ Title: WP Café #136 | Moving away from multisite >  ## 🧰 Action Inbox - [H1] Research WP Migrate tools for multisite extraction — before network migration #wordpress - [H2] Test multiple hosting providers with extracted sites — performance comparison #hosting - [H3] Evaluate custom blocks vs core blocks for maintainable patterns — design system decisions #blocktheme ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ### 🔗 References - [WP Migrate Plugin](https://deliciousbrains.com/wp-migrate-db-pro/) - [Local by WP Engine](https://localwp.com/) ## 📝 Summary - WordPress agency High-Rise Digital is migrating a recruitment agency client away from WordPress multisite to separate installations - Why it matters: Most WordPress tools and hosting features aren't designed for multisite, creating ongoing maintenance challenges - Key stakeholders: Small agencies managing multiple branded sites for enterprise clients - Risks: Loss of shared users, code duplication, more complex deployment processes - Bottom line: Benefits of tool compatibility and isolated operations outweigh multisite conveniences ## 📖 Main Content Mark and Keith from High-Rise Digital discuss their decision to break apart a WordPress multisite network for a recruitment agency client with multiple brands. The multisite was originally chosen for shared users, unified design, and code management, but has proven problematic in practice. The core issue is tool incompatibility - hosting features like performance monitoring only work on the primary site, staging environments don't deploy correctly, and local development becomes unwieldy with massive databases. They're using WP Migrate's multisite tools to extract individual sites while testing multiple hosting providers for performance comparisons. The discussion also covers pattern maintenance challenges in the block editor, where design changes need manual propagation across dozens of pages, and local development frustrations when tools like Local WP encounter database corruption issues. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:00](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=0) — [H1] Introduction and multisite migration overview - Key idea: High-Rise Digital moving recruitment client from multisite to separate installs - Evidence: "Every time you want to do something, they're just not set up for multisite" #### ⏱️ [05:23](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=323) — [H2] New Year updates and Russell Howard comedy show - Key idea: Personal updates before diving into technical content - Evidence: "Russell Howard did an hour set and it was non-stop laughter for an hour" #### ⏱️ [08:45](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=525) — [H2] Why multisite was chosen initially - Key idea: Multisite seemed logical for multiple brands with shared design and users - Evidence: "Multiple brands wanted a unified design that they could tweak slightly" #### ⏱️ [12:15](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=735) — [H1] Problems with multisite implementation - Key idea: Most plugins and hosting tools don't support multisite properly - Evidence: "Performance monitoring only reports on primary site which we don't actually use" #### ⏱️ [15:30](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=930) — [H2] Local development challenges - Key idea: Database size and complexity makes local development unwieldy - Evidence: "Database is massive and you don't really want to pull the whole thing down" #### ⏱️ [18:00](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=1080) — [H2] Backup and recovery limitations - Key idea: Network-wide backups affect all sites even when only one needs restoration - Evidence: "If something goes wrong with one site, you can't just restore that site" #### ⏱️ [20:45](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=1245) — [H2] User management considerations - Key idea: Shared users benefit is minimal with only 5 global administrators - Evidence: "Only a handful of global users - we can manage multiple passwords" #### ⏱️ [23:15](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=1395) — [H1] WP Migrate extraction process - Key idea: Using WP Migrate's multisite tools to extract individual sites - Evidence: "It gives you choice of pulling one single site out of the network" #### ⏱️ [26:30](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=1590) — [H2] Technical hurdles during extraction - Key idea: Memory limits, plugin conflicts, and timeouts required support intervention - Evidence: "13,000 items in media library kept crashing when working out what media there was" #### ⏱️ [29:00](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=1740) — [H2] Host testing opportunity - Key idea: Migration presents chance to test multiple hosting providers - Evidence: "What an amazing case study - same real site on four different hosting platforms" #### ⏱️ [31:45](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=1905) — [H1] Block pattern maintenance challenges - Key idea: Design changes require manual updates across dozens of pages - Evidence: "20 hero sections that I now have to manually go back and tweak" #### ⏱️ [37:20](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=2240) — [H2] Custom blocks vs core blocks debate - Key idea: Complex responsive layouts may require custom blocks instead of patterns - Evidence: "Core block combinations aren't suitable for ongoing content maintenance" #### ⏱️ [42:15](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=2535) — [H2] Local WP database corruption issues - Key idea: Keith's local development environment corrupted requiring recreation - Evidence: "Error stopped but said cannot connect to database - deleted the database" #### ⏱️ [46:30](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=2790) — [H2] AI for WordPress development tasks - Key idea: ChatGPT successfully created meta key migration plugin in 20 minutes - Evidence: "Working plugin to convert one meta key to a new meta key in about 20 minutes" ## 📚 References - [WP Migrate by Delicious Brains](https://deliciousbrains.com/wp-migrate-db-pro/) - [Local by WP Engine](https://localwp.com/) - [MAMP Local Development](https://www.mamp.info/) - [High-Rise Digital](https://high-risedigital.co.uk/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase - WordPress multisite networks create more problems than they solve for most agencies due to poor tool support and hosting limitations - Block editor pattern maintenance becomes unwieldy at scale, suggesting custom blocks are better for complex reusable components - Local development environments require regular maintenance and backup strategies to prevent data loss from corruption ## 📰 Newsletter **WordPress Multisite Reality Check: When to Break Apart Your Network** High-Rise Digital's experience migrating from multisite reveals a common challenge: most WordPress tools simply aren't built for multisite networks. Their recruitment agency client started with multisite for good reasons - shared users, unified codebase, multiple brands. But hosting performance tools, staging environments, and local development all broke down. The breakthrough came with WP Migrate's multisite extraction tools, turning a complex migration into manageable chunks. The lesson? Sometimes the "elegant" solution creates more friction than separate sites. **Key takeaway:** Evaluate multisite based on your toolchain compatibility, not just theoretical benefits. Resources: [Learn WordPress](https://learn.wordpress.org/), [Developer Docs](https://developer.wordpress.org/), [WP-CLI](https://wp-cli.org/) ## ✅ Action Items #### DevRel - Developer advocacy: Document multisite limitations and alternatives for agencies - Education: Create workshops on site architecture decision-making - Developer experience: Improve multisite tooling compatibility documentation - Community management: Collect feedback on multisite pain points from agencies #### WordPress - Core: Improve multisite support in hosting integrations and tooling - Documentation: Update multisite guidance with tool compatibility considerations - Community: Support agencies sharing multisite migration case studies - Hosting: Encourage hosting providers to improve multisite feature parity #### Community - Maintainers: Prioritize multisite compatibility in plugin development - Contributors: Document multisite testing approaches and edge cases - Sponsors: Fund multisite tooling improvements and migration utilities ## 🧪 Hypotheses - Multisite adoption decreases as hosting and development tools prioritize single-site workflows - Block pattern maintenance complexity scales exponentially with site count and design variations - AI-assisted development reduces custom utility plugin development time by 60-80% - Local development environment corruption correlates with database size and complexity ### 📊 Methodology - Compare hosting feature support between single-site and multisite installations across 5 major providers - Measure time-to-implement design changes using patterns vs custom blocks across 20 pages - Track AI development assistance accuracy and time savings for WordPress utility tasks ### ❓ Questions - What multisite use cases still justify the architectural complexity in 2024? - How can WordPress hosting providers improve multisite feature parity? - When should agencies choose custom blocks over core block patterns for design systems? ### 🔮 Future Research - Comprehensive multisite tooling compatibility audit across WordPress ecosystem - Performance comparison of extracted sites vs multisite network under equivalent load - Pattern maintenance workflow optimization for block-based design systems ### 💡 Implications - Practice: Agencies should evaluate toolchain compatibility before choosing multisite architecture - Policy: WordPress hosting standards could include multisite feature parity requirements - Education: Development training should cover architecture trade-offs, not just implementation details - Funding: Multisite tooling improvements need community investment to remain viable ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: Grade 12 (technical vocabulary, industry context) #### 👀 Visual learners - Present: Mentioned performance comparison charts, hosting feature matrices - Improve: Architecture diagrams showing multisite vs single-site deployments #### 🔊 Aural learners - Present: Full podcast-style discussion format with conversational examples - Improve: Timestamped segments for easy navigation to relevant topics #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - Present: Technical terminology explained through real client scenarios - Improve: Glossary of multisite and hosting terms with analogies #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - Present: Step-by-step WP Migrate extraction process described - Improve: Hands-on migration checklist and testing procedures #### 🧠 Logical learners - Present: Clear problem-solution framework with technical cause-effect relationships - Improve: Decision matrix for multisite vs single-site architecture choices #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - Present: Agency partnership discussion and community feedback requests - Improve: Links to WordPress community forums for multisite discussions #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - Present: Individual troubleshooting experiences and research approaches - Improve: Self-assessment questions for architecture decision-making #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - Present: Organic evolution of technical challenges over project lifecycle - Improve: Ecosystem thinking about WordPress tool interdependencies ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - Present: YouTube auto-captions available, clear speaker identification - Improve: Timestamp navigation with descriptive section headings #### Keyboard navigation - Present: Standard YouTube player controls accessible via keyboard - Improve: Chapter markers for easier content navigation #### Contrast and readability - Present: Video format with clear audio, show notes provide text alternative - Improve: High-contrast transcript formatting for better readability #### Text resizing and reflow - Present: Responsive show notes layout accommodates text scaling - Improve: Structured headings support screen reader navigation patterns #### Media and captions - Present: Audio content with YouTube automatic captions - Improve: Professional transcription with technical term corrections #### Forms and interactions - Present: Standard YouTube commenting and subscription interfaces - Improve: Accessible contact forms for guest suggestions and feedback ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - Present: UK-based agency perspective with universal WordPress challenges - Improve: International hosting provider comparisons, global agency experiences #### Inclusive language - Present: Technical discussion remains accessible, avoids exclusionary jargon - Improve: Define technical terms for developers from different backgrounds #### Neurodiversity support - Present: Conversational format with clear topic transitions - Improve: Visual topic indicators, consistent segment structure #### Representation - Present: Small agency perspective representing many WordPress professionals - Improve: Diverse guest perspectives on architecture decisions #### Psychological safety - Present: Honest discussion of technical failures and learning experiences - Improve: Normalize asking for help with technical challenges ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - Deductive strength: Clear premise-conclusion chain linking tool incompatibility to multisite abandonment - Inductive strength: Pattern recognition from multiple hosting/development tool failures - Causal reasoning: Direct cause-effect between multisite architecture and maintenance problems - Analogical strength: Golf equipment analogy demonstrates AI assistance applicability #### Fallacies - Selection bias: Only discussing negative multisite experiences without balanced success stories - Hasty generalization: Concluding all multisite installations problematic based on one client experience #### Tone of voice - Overall tone: Conversational and honest, acknowledging uncertainty while sharing practical experience ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis - Deny: No defensive denial patterns present - Attack: No attacks on critics or alternative approaches - Reverse victim/offender: No victim/offender dynamics observed - Emotional cues: Frustration expressed appropriately toward technical limitations, not individuals ## 🎯 Conclusion The multisite migration decision reflects broader WordPress ecosystem challenges around tool compatibility and architectural complexity. While multisite offers elegant solutions for specific use cases, agencies must weigh theoretical benefits against practical toolchain limitations. The experience highlights the importance of architecture decisions that align with available tooling rather than fighting against ecosystem trends. The pattern maintenance discussion reveals similar themes about choosing appropriate abstraction levels - sometimes the "WordPress way" creates more work than custom solutions. As WordPress continues evolving toward block-based development, agencies need clearer guidance on when to use core tools versus custom implementations. ## 🧱 Refactor Appendix ### 📚 Literature Split Pad Purpose: Stage CEE units that become Literature notes. Split level: H3 ### [L1] Multisite tooling compatibility decreases adoption > [!quote] [WP Café #136](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA) by [[WP Café Show]] via [[YouTube]]. Published 2024. Accessed 2025-01-15. > "Every time you want to do something, they're just not set up for multisite" WordPress agencies abandon multisite due to poor third-party tool support rather than architectural limitations. [view highlight](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA?t=735) #architecture #tooling ID:rw_001 ### [L2] Block patterns create maintenance debt at scale > [!quote] [WP Café #136](https://youtu.be/skVmR5QpImA) > "20 hero sections that I now have to manually go back and tweak" Core block patterns lack synchron --- ## Full Transcript [00:02] Hello and welcome to episode number 136 [00:05] of the WP Cafe Show. The show where we [00:08] share the real unfiltered experience of [00:11] running our WordPress business. I'm Mark [00:13] Wilkinson and as always I am joined by [00:15] my co-host Keith Devon. We're both from [00:18] High-Rise Digital, a tiny agency [00:20] building WordPress websites and [00:22] products. Today we're diving into a [00:25] number of topics. We're going to be [00:26] looking at moving away from multi-sight, [00:28] a little bit about local development and [00:31] sort of other bits and bobs that have [00:32] caught our attention over the last few [00:34] weeks. Um, and uh, so grab a brew uh, [00:37] and you can settle in and see what it's [00:39] really like to see behind the scenes of [00:41] running our WordPress business. You can [00:43] follow us on X at WP Cafe Show. We're [00:45] also on Blue Sky and the web at [00:47] wpcafe.show. [00:49] If you're enjoying the episode, please [00:51] think about subscribing to the channel, [00:53] like the video, and why not share it [00:54] with someone who else you might find it [00:56] useful. We'd love to hear your thoughts [00:57] throughout the show, so get involved in [00:59] the comments. That would also be great. [01:02] Um, apologies if you can hear a weird [01:04] noise outside my house at the moment. [01:06] There's someone decided that now is the [01:08] right time of the day, having had all [01:10] day, to start chopping down some trees. [01:12] So, if you can hear some sort of [01:13] chainsaw going in the background, I do [01:14] apologize. There's not a lot I can do [01:16] about it, apart from not bothering, of [01:18] course. So, we'll have to just stick [01:19] with it, I think. Maybe I can mute if it [01:21] gets too bad. Let us know in the [01:22] comments. As always, let's just catch up [01:25] with Keith. How have you been? [01:26] Obviously, happy new year. It's um after [01:28] Christmas. I think it's our first show. [01:30] >> Uh it is. Yeah. Uh yeah, pretty good. Uh [01:35] life got some life stuff going on, but [01:38] uh generally had a generally had a good [01:41] break. I had a couple of weeks off, [01:43] spent loads of time with my daughter and [01:46] uh yeah, just yeah, it was it was nice. [01:48] Lots of family around and uh but and not [01:51] too many plans like not too many go here [01:54] for this dinner and over here and over [01:56] here. It was just it felt it was well [01:58] paced. It felt like a nice break and we [02:00] had a bit of a New Year's shindig at our [02:02] house. So, uh that was fun, too. Um, but [02:05] yeah, no, just it wasn't too much of a [02:09] too too difficult to get back into the [02:11] swing of things at work actually. I was [02:13] like I was on the Sunday I was like I'm [02:15] not ready to go back to work. I feel [02:16] really out of it and then I kind of just [02:18] got back in and just like Yeah, same [02:20] old. [02:20] >> Stuck in. [02:21] >> So yeah, stuck in. It's been all right. [02:23] How about yourself? [02:24] >> Similar. Yeah, just a chilled out [02:26] Christmas. Um, I'm not a massive fan of [02:29] Christmas, I've got to admit, but uh it [02:32] was good. It was good. We just had some [02:34] parents over and stuff on Christmas day [02:36] and just a just a chilled meal and [02:38] nothing exciting really. And then [02:39] >> yeah, [02:40] >> obviously spent some time with the [02:41] family, with the kids and stuff and [02:43] played a bit of golf. It was nice [02:44] weather sometimes. So yeah, it was good. [02:46] >> Oh, I do have to tell you, I haven't [02:48] told you what happened last night to me, [02:50] which was really fun. [02:52] >> So I went uh I go regularly to the local [02:57] comedy club. So the Folkston comedy [02:59] club, which has been going for [03:01] >> I don't know 10ish years. I've been [03:02] going since it started. Um, and it's so [03:06] it's so popular. It's so good that they [03:09] release all their tickets at the start [03:11] of the year and they all sell out within [03:13] about half an hour. [03:15] >> Wow. [03:15] >> For for the whole year. So, it's it's [03:18] kind of that popular. Anyway, so um my [03:21] wife's on the mailing list and uh she [03:24] got an email a little while ago saying [03:27] they're doing an extra special show. [03:29] It's on a Thursday night in January and [03:32] uh it's going to be it's a big comedian [03:35] who wants to test out uh material for [03:38] their upcoming tour. We're not going to [03:40] tell you who it is, but uh sign up kind [03:43] of thing. So, my wife got tickets [03:46] initially not for me, by the way. I only [03:48] got to go I only got to go cuz one of [03:50] her friends couldn't go, which you know, [03:52] >> harsh. [03:53] >> Yeah. And it would I would have been [03:55] seething if I hadn't been there. And [03:58] what transpired transpired. So we got [03:59] there. I had my theories about who it [04:02] might be. So there were names being [04:03] bandied about. Uh and so we had an [04:06] initial act in the first half in an [04:09] interval and then he came on the compare [04:12] and he's like so we've got our special [04:13] guest. Please welcome Russell Howard and [04:15] it was like I love Russell Howard. Like [04:19] >> I hadn't seen him for ages but I used to [04:21] watch his like TV show and stuff all the [04:23] time. Russell Good News I think it was [04:25] called. So there I am sitting like I [04:28] don't know I was in the third row so [04:30] like super close and he did an hour set [04:32] and like literally it was like non-stop [04:35] laughter for an hour. It was so much [04:36] fun. [04:37] >> Yeah. Really really good. So [04:39] >> very good. [04:40] >> He was my prediction though cuz uh I [04:42] knew that the com pair of our comedy [04:45] club uh and the kind of owner of it uh [04:48] writes jokes for Russell Hard. [04:50] >> So they they they know each other and I [04:52] knew that already. So that my my theory [04:54] was correct. [04:55] Yeah, it was great. Really good fun. [04:57] >> So So when he comes out in the next few [04:59] months with his new stuff, then you've [05:01] already seen it. [05:01] >> I know it all. Yeah. And it's good. It's [05:03] funny. Yeah, [05:04] >> it's good. There you go. [05:06] >> Bit of a plug for Russell Howard on this [05:07] show. Who would [05:09] >> if you want to share it, Russell? If [05:10] you're watching, please do. [05:12] >> Come on the show sometime and talk about [05:14] webass. [05:16] >> If you need a website, let us know. [05:18] >> Yeah. [05:20] >> Very good. Very good. So uh today then [05:24] let me go to the notes. What have we got [05:25] today? Episode 136. Migrating a site out [05:28] of multi-sight to a single site. We're [05:30] looking at maintaining patterns, pages, [05:33] local issues with local development. Um [05:36] and then a bit of AI stuff that I threw [05:38] in at the end there that I've been [05:39] looking at this week. Um I guess we [05:42] should start with the multi-sight. [05:44] >> Yeah. [05:44] >> Um [05:46] >> do you want to introduce it? Do you want [05:48] me to introduce it? [05:48] >> Yeah. I mean I think you'll be doing [05:50] most of the talking so I guess I can [05:51] sort of introduce it very briefly. Um [05:55] >> our our big recruitment agency client um [06:00] who we built site for about I don't know [06:02] four or five years ago now I think um [06:05] >> they've got multiple brands [06:08] um and they wanted a kind of unified [06:10] sort of like design that they could [06:11] tweak slightly for the different brands [06:13] and stuff like that. So when we built [06:15] the project, I mean our head straight [06:17] away just went this should be a [06:18] multi-sight with a single theme, shared [06:20] set of plugins, shared set of users. [06:23] Multiight is an absolute no-brainer. Um [06:26] we're now about to pull that multiight [06:29] apart and [06:31] uh put all of the sites on separate well [06:34] probably on the same hosting plan but in [06:36] separate WordPress installs. Um, and [06:38] it's been a bit of a journey to get [06:40] there. And I think we're still [06:43] I wouldn't say we're 100% sure that this [06:45] is the right thing to do, but I think [06:48] the balance has been tipped now. And uh, [06:51] the client has been convinced that this [06:52] is worth trying. Um, so we're going to [06:54] we're going to give it a go. There. [06:56] There's your intro, Mark. What are the [06:57] myths? [06:59] >> So, I think I think we talked about this [07:00] last week. Last last week, last show. um [07:03] whenever that was before Christmas. [07:05] >> And like Keith, I'm not entirely 100% [07:09] sure this is the right thing to do. I'm [07:11] kind of 95% there now, I think, because [07:14] I think [07:16] the benefits clearly outweigh the the [07:18] downsides. So my my issue with the [07:22] multi-sight setup is that every time you [07:25] want to do something and that's whether [07:28] it's use plug-in X or [07:32] a feature of the hosting, they're just [07:35] not set up for multicight. They're never [07:37] set up for multicight. Now granted, [07:39] there are some plugins that, you know, [07:41] are built for multicight or have [07:43] multicight in mind and do things [07:44] correctly for multicight. [07:46] >> Yeah. Most people, most don't in our in [07:49] my experience. Multicight is more of an [07:51] afterthought for them and and why would [07:54] they? Because actually most WordPress [07:55] users aren't using it. So I get that. [07:57] So, we're having problems with things [08:00] like when our biggest thing is like well [08:02] my biggest thing is local development [08:04] like to try and pull a site down and to [08:07] work on it is just it's it's so [08:10] difficult to do [08:11] >> because the database is massive and the [08:13] f you know what is difficult about that [08:15] >> because everything's in one database. [08:17] >> Yeah. [08:17] >> So the database is really big. Um you [08:20] know you've then got to you pull the you [08:22] don't really want to pull the whole [08:23] thing down because you're only working [08:24] on one site. uh it becomes difficult to [08:26] sort of manage in that sense and then a [08:28] lot of the tools on the hosting they [08:30] don't they just don't work for the [08:32] multicight. So one example is the host [08:34] has just introduced this really good [08:35] feature where you can see site [08:37] performance. It talks about page speeds [08:39] and gives you lots of analysis [08:41] >> but it's only reporting on the primary [08:43] site in the network which we don't [08:45] actually use. That's just literally like [08:46] the holding site. It doesn't do [08:48] anything. So it's utterly pointless. So [08:50] it doesn't really help us. It's stuff [08:52] like that deploying to staging, having a [08:55] staging environment, creating a staging [08:57] environment. [08:58] >> These one-click tools they have, they [09:00] just don't work for for multicight or [09:02] they don't, in our experience, they [09:03] don't work. [09:04] >> Um, and I think if we broke them into [09:06] separate sites, it would give us more [09:08] options for things like if something [09:11] goes wrong, you're isolated to that one [09:14] instance of it going wrong. If something [09:16] goes wrong with one of the sites, we [09:18] want to restore yesterday's backup. We [09:20] can't just do it for that site. you're [09:21] restoring the whole network. [09:23] >> So, you know, the brands that have done [09:25] changes since yesterday are going to [09:26] lose those changes when actually there [09:28] was nothing wrong with those sites. [09:29] >> So, I think it makes sense to split them [09:31] in that instance. Um, and I kind of want [09:34] someone to sort of like tell me I'm [09:36] wrong, but no, no one really has. People [09:38] have come up with good reasons why we [09:40] should stay stay in that sense and [09:42] they're all the reasons I already know [09:44] and I think actually they're not as good [09:46] as the reasons to move. um things like [09:48] the shared users obviously shared uh [09:51] code base but we can we can get by that [09:53] with other ways using git and things I [09:55] think so I [09:56] >> think the users is the main thing for me [09:58] the code base is fine because like you [10:00] say [10:00] >> we can set up our deployment processes [10:02] to deploy code to multiple servers at [10:05] once [10:06] >> that's not really a problem but with [10:08] users yeah I mean if they want to delete [10:12] I'm I'm saying this as I'm saying this [10:15] I'm realizing actually that that's not [10:17] really much problem either for this [10:18] particular client because there are only [10:21] a handful of global users like super [10:25] admins and and yes and [10:28] >> they can manage we we are one or two uh [10:32] we can manage having multiple passwords [10:35] for six websites like that's that's not [10:38] beyond the realms of like possibility [10:40] and actually the the the larger user [10:44] kind of uh data sets are consultants [10:48] which are spec or employees team members [10:52] are specific to those sites anyway. So [10:54] they're not we actually don't want them [10:56] to be shared. So actually it it from a [10:59] user's point of view we're talking about [11:01] maybe five people that access the all of [11:04] the sites regularly. So is is that [11:07] really a big deal? Not really. Not when [11:09] you've got password managers and things [11:10] like that. So [11:11] >> yeah, I agree. I think that's that's [11:13] again negated by those uh the lack of [11:16] users that need that cross site usage [11:19] essentially. Um [11:21] >> so I I' I've started to research how we [11:25] go about doing this and [11:28] um Delicious Brains um which is now I [11:31] think owned by WP Engine. I think that's [11:34] how it works. Yeah, [11:35] >> I think they're still Delicious Brains, [11:37] but I think they're W because at the [11:39] bottom of the website it says Delicious [11:40] Brains and it says WP Engine and [11:41] everything. So, I'm assuming it is. [11:43] >> I think Delicious Brains kept Spin Up as [11:47] a separate thing, didn't they? Cuz [11:48] that's the same team. [11:50] >> I think that's separate to Delicious [11:51] Brains, though. I think [11:52] >> Yes, I think you're right. But it's the [11:54] same. It was the same [11:55] >> same team. Yeah. Oh, well, part of Yeah, [11:57] they've kept that separate. That doesn't [11:59] belong to Engine because obviously it's [12:01] >> But obviously a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [12:03] Obviously some things went across. [12:06] >> So they they have a plugin which many of [12:08] you may have used called WP. It used to [12:10] be called WP Migrate DB Pro. Um and now [12:13] it's just called WP Migrate. And one of [12:16] its features is that it can handle um [12:20] pulling and pushing multi-sight [12:22] instances in and out of networks and [12:24] things like that. uh the earlier [12:26] versions it would work but they were [12:28] more of a manual process whereas the new [12:30] ones got this multi-sight tools uh [12:32] add-on if you pay for the sort of pro [12:34] version and one of the things it can do [12:36] is you you set up a migrate and when you [12:39] add the connection details in for the [12:41] the site you're pulling which is the [12:44] network it then knows it's a network and [12:47] it gives you a choice of do you want to [12:49] pull one of the sites out of here or are [12:51] we are we pulling the whole network so [12:53] obviously I chose [12:55] um we're going to pull one of these [12:56] single sites out. And then you've got [12:58] choices for things like what do you want [13:00] to pull? Obviously the database and it [13:02] pre-seelelects the correct tables that [13:04] you need to pull. So essentially they [13:06] are the tables that are prefixed with [13:08] the site ID and you need the users [13:11] tables. So it preselects all those for [13:13] you and then you can do your search and [13:16] replaces which it kind of does for you [13:18] because it knows what your local address [13:19] is and it knows what your address was at [13:21] the live site. And then you can choose [13:24] to do the media, the plugins, the [13:26] themes, the mustuse plugins and so on. [13:29] Uh so I've been working on pulling that [13:32] down to my local machine as a single [13:34] site and I came across a few hurdles. So [13:38] the first hurdle was that the media [13:40] library on the site is large. So there's [13:43] about 13,000 [13:45] items in the media library. and it kept [13:49] crashing um when it was essentially [13:53] working out what media there was. So, it [13:55] kept timing out and I think having [13:58] chatted with the support which was very [13:59] good, it seems as though it runs out of [14:02] memory essentially. So, they they bumped [14:04] the memory on the server um and it kind [14:07] of solved that problem which was good. [14:10] Um, then I ran into problems where I [14:12] kept getting critical errors and that [14:14] was because I was pulling down host [14:18] plugins that wouldn't run locally. They [14:20] they they gave errors. So, as soon as [14:22] they got installed and activated, it [14:24] just gave gave an error. So, that was a [14:26] bit of a problem. Um, and then the final [14:29] thing was it kept timing out. I don't [14:31] really know why. [14:33] >> So, they recommended just splitting it [14:36] into different requests. So do the [14:40] database, do the themes and the plugins [14:42] separately and then do the media [14:44] separately. And that that seemed to fix [14:45] the issue, [14:46] >> right? [14:46] >> Um so I now have a working local copy of [14:50] one of the sites on my machine [14:53] >> which seems to work fine. So [14:56] >> um that's kind of the process now for [14:58] moving it to a different site. Now [15:00] obviously if we were if we were going to [15:02] do this for real, we wouldn't be moving [15:04] it locally probably. we would be let's [15:07] say signing up with a new host or a new [15:09] hosting plan with the same host and then [15:11] just creating an instance and then [15:13] pulling it into that instance that's [15:15] already live on the internet rather than [15:17] doing that way. So [15:18] >> um so that's the plan. So I've put that [15:21] towards the client give them we've [15:22] obviously already talked about the pros [15:24] and cons of this. I think we're all on [15:26] board. So it's just a matter of when we [15:27] want to go ahead and uh deliver it. [15:29] >> So fingers crossed we can get that done [15:31] and it'll uh be successful. I wonder [15:33] what the best way to because one of the [15:35] things we'd quite like to do is test [15:37] test out a new host and see if the [15:39] performance is any better. [15:40] >> I wonder what the best way to do that [15:42] is. Do do you use some kind of garbage [15:44] domain name that doesn't mean anything [15:48] >> and like I don't know protect it from [15:50] search engines from bots and stuff for a [15:53] little while and then try to because [15:54] what you really want the two sites exact [15:57] sites kind of running side by side so [15:59] you can test them. [16:00] >> Yeah. [16:01] >> In the moment you'd have to do that. So, [16:03] you'd have to most hosts will give you a [16:06] like a dummy domain name that they can [16:08] use, [16:09] >> right? [16:10] >> You know, like, you know, [16:11] x197435.host.com, [16:14] what whatever, you know, so you can just [16:16] run it on there. [16:17] >> Yeah. So you could sign up, you use [16:19] that, do the pull, get everything [16:21] across, uh, and then you could, you [16:23] know, run some tests maybe like that, [16:25] hiding it from search engines and so [16:27] forth, and then see if there's any [16:28] difference in in speed, which [16:30] >> I think that' be amazing. [16:32] >> Sure will. Um, and then if if they're [16:34] happy to do that, then obviously it's a [16:35] DNS change. So it's adding the the the [16:38] the domain to the host if it's a new [16:40] host and then pointing that domain to [16:43] that new host and then search and [16:44] replace to replace the database. I I [16:47] would like to do that. I'd like I' [16:48] actually ideally I'd like to try out [16:51] three or four different hosts and like [16:54] what what an amazing case study that [16:56] like that would be. It's just like we've [16:57] actually tested the same [17:00] >> real site on four different hosting [17:02] platforms. These were the results. I [17:04] think that' be fascinating. [17:06] >> Obviously, you'd have to pay for a [17:08] hosting plan for [17:10] >> Wouldn't be that expensive. [17:11] >> You'd only have to do it for a month, [17:12] though, wouldn't you? So, [17:13] >> exactly. [17:14] >> Yeah. [17:14] >> Yeah. [17:14] >> It' be interesting. interesting little [17:16] experiment seeing what uh what works, [17:17] what doesn't work, what comes out best [17:19] and why. [17:19] >> Yeah. [17:20] >> Yeah. [17:21] >> That'll be some good good content [17:23] actually in that I think as well for for [17:25] us, you know. It's like [17:27] >> Yeah. [17:28] >> Yep. So, that's where we are with that. [17:30] Anyway, um if you have any questions and [17:32] comments, let us know in the uh in the [17:34] live chat thing. That'd be good. Um the [17:37] next one on the list um this was [17:39] something that you were working on I [17:41] believe was about [17:43] >> um how to maintain patterns or block [17:46] patterns across uh pages and sites [17:50] within the network. Now this might go [17:53] away once we don't have a network but it [17:55] won't because we will still be managing [17:56] patterns across multiple sites. They [17:58] just won't be in a network but they'll [17:59] be across multiple sites because those [18:00] sites use the same theme essentially. So [18:03] >> yeah, [18:04] >> um [18:04] >> what what were you doing and what sort [18:07] of challenges did you come up with? [18:10] >> So this is actually for the same client [18:12] and I we've spoken like in previous [18:15] episodes about the fact that uh a new [18:19] designer came in and they've redesigned [18:22] a few of the homepages across the [18:24] brands. Um, and they've got this new [18:27] kind of homepage design that they want [18:29] to roll out across the brands with some [18:31] with some tweaks. Um, [18:34] but essentially it's a lot of it's the [18:36] same. So, taking like the hero section [18:38] for example, there's a new hero section. [18:41] And I built it nearly exclusively in the [18:45] block editor with a tiny bit of custom [18:47] CSS [18:49] um to handle just a few things that the [18:50] block editor is not capable of. um doing [18:53] that so that it's flexible for the [18:56] client moving forward. It's kind of easy [18:58] for us to build. Um and so I did that [19:02] for one brand. [19:04] um kind of signed that off, went live, [19:09] and then [19:11] and then it gets rolled out for some of [19:13] the other brands and then one of the [19:16] final brands who are actually like the [19:18] pickiest of all of them. Like um I I [19:20] don't know who's in the leadership of [19:22] that particular brand, but they're [19:23] always the ones that are super picky and [19:26] things are a bit slower with them. Um so [19:29] eventually it comes to their turn and [19:31] >> meticulous maybe not picky [19:33] >> meticulous. Yes. Uh and the designer [19:37] comes back and says actually you know [19:39] can we tweak this and that and it [19:41] doesn't look quite right at this break [19:42] point or that break point and they're [19:45] just yeah they're more meticulous when [19:47] it comes to this particular brand. So of [19:49] course I can make those I can make those [19:51] changes. [19:53] Uh, I go into the block editor and I [19:56] change the padding and the margin and I [19:58] I've had to add, it's been really [20:00] frustrating. I've had to add some spacer [20:03] blocks and things like that. Uh, and [20:04] I've had to use block visibility to only [20:06] show those spacer blocks on certain [20:09] break points and those break points [20:10] weren't necessarily aligning with like [20:13] um the WordPress column like where it [20:17] breaks from multiple columns into single [20:18] columns and things like that. So, it it [20:21] all got really messy. um making these [20:24] fixes. So, possible but messy. And messy [20:27] partly because I'm not just using CSS. [20:30] Like it's not like I've built some [20:32] custom HTML and I've got CSS and I just [20:35] tweak this thing over here and add a [20:36] media query here. I'm trying to do it in [20:39] the block editor. So, that made it more [20:42] complicated especially because of this [20:44] particular layout which has like [20:46] overlapping vertically overlapping [20:48] images and stuff. [20:50] Um, and then it's like, okay, I fixed it [20:53] on this page. There's five other brands [20:57] that are using this pattern that I [20:59] haven't fixed all all this stuff on. And [21:02] actually, some of those brands are using [21:04] this page are using this hero 10 times [21:07] because they've got landing pages for [21:09] each of their countries that they [21:10] operate in. [21:11] >> Countries. Yeah. Regions. Yeah. So now [21:13] I've got somewhere in the region of 20 [21:17] hero sections that I now have to [21:19] manually go back and tweak. [21:23] And it just comes back to this idea of [21:25] like what is the best way to build these [21:28] kinds of things to make them [21:31] maintainable. Like you could argue well [21:33] they are maintainable because I can go [21:34] and make those changes but it's a very [21:37] painful very duplicated process rather [21:41] than [21:41] >> you want to make those changes once [21:42] don't you [21:43] >> in a in a theme in CSS or or in a theme [21:47] template file like that's [21:49] >> but then but then doing it that way you [21:52] lose all the flexibility [21:53] >> that we have with the block editor and [21:55] it's just this constant [21:58] ba like battle and balance and it's I I [22:01] I never think I'm getting it right, you [22:03] know? I never think I've found the [22:05] solution or the right balance. It's [22:07] always, oh, maybe I should have built it [22:09] this way or that way or maybe this [22:11] should have been some kind of synced [22:12] block, but then if it's a sync block [22:14] that doesn't work on a multi-sight [22:15] level, do you know like all this kind of [22:17] stuff? Like it's just it's a bit it's a [22:20] bit mind-blowing really. And like should [22:22] I have done way more of this with custom [22:23] CSS rather than using dimension controls [22:26] in the block editor because then I could [22:28] just go and change the theme CSS instead [22:30] of faffing about in the block editor. [22:33] All these questions and I don't have the [22:34] answers. Please does someone have the [22:36] answers? Like please tell me. [22:38] >> And I guess if it because you can put [22:40] block patterns in the theme, can't you? [22:42] But I guess once [22:45] >> you've changed the padding, the margin [22:48] >> in the editor, [22:49] >> it no longer is connected to that. So if [22:52] you update the pattern in the theme, I [22:54] guess it's got to be split, isn't it? [22:56] >> And it depends what kind of pattern it [22:57] is. Because if it's if it's just a [22:59] pattern in the theme that you dump onto [23:01] a page and then you can edit to your [23:03] heart's content, [23:04] >> that's not helping [23:06] >> because once those changes are made, [23:08] they're made. But if it's a sync pattern [23:10] and you can somehow change that in a in [23:13] a PHP template or HTML template, maybe [23:15] that would work. I I honestly I just [23:18] don't know. I I just don't know how to [23:21] do these things anymore the right way. [23:23] And maybe there is no right maybe there [23:24] is no right way, but um this feels like [23:29] it must be solved problems like there's [23:32] quite a lot of the enterprise agencies [23:34] that are building WordPress websites. [23:36] Feels like this should be solved. I [23:38] wonder how they're solving these [23:39] problems. [23:40] >> Yeah. [23:40] >> And it'd be really good to get some [23:42] content on this like it's on like the [23:44] WordPress developer blog. How how do we [23:46] do this stuff [23:48] >> because we don't know. [23:50] Is there anybody out there at that level [23:54] that is putting out that kind of content [23:55] anymore [23:56] >> that I'm just not that I'm not seeing [23:58] because I I used to look to the likes of [24:01] Bill Ericson or you know some of the yes [24:04] some of the bigger agencies would [24:06] >> would put out more like how we built [24:08] this kind of content and I just [24:10] >> maybe I'm not looking maybe I'm not you [24:12] know exposed to it maybe it's out there [24:14] I know humanmade put out a lot of really [24:17] good kind of general content but I I [24:20] think understandably it's more focused [24:22] on the clients [24:23] >> on the clients not yeah definitely [24:25] >> yeah why WordPress is a great you know [24:27] great platform for enterprise not how we [24:30] built X [24:31] >> in in detail for developers like me I I [24:34] would just I would love for that kind of [24:36] thing [24:37] >> to start happening again but [24:40] >> um hi Nick says use a good old fashioned [24:42] ACF block instead of a pattern [24:46] I mean it would work but [24:48] >> I I I do wonder for that hero section [24:51] for example, should that have been a [24:53] custom block where you add a background [24:57] image, a foreground image, a title, a [24:59] subtitle, a button, and I I have fields [25:01] for them all. [25:02] >> But it just negates the problem of using [25:04] the block editor, doesn't it? That's the [25:05] whole point is like [25:07] >> but you can use the block editor for [25:08] like [25:10] the content. Do do you know what I mean? [25:12] Like in the oldfashioned sense. Um, [25:15] >> and this this kind of because we use [25:18] custom blocks for other complicated [25:21] >> uh sections of the design. So why [25:23] wouldn't why shouldn't I use it for it's [25:25] cuz I knew it was possible in the block [25:27] editor. That's why we didn't do it. [25:28] >> I saw that I was like I can do that in [25:31] the block editor. [25:32] >> Maybe I should. [25:33] >> When we use a custom block, it's usually [25:35] because like you can't do it in the [25:37] editor. [25:38] >> That's what I mean. [25:39] >> Whereas so so I have no other choice. I [25:42] I've have to I have to go for some sort [25:44] of custom solution there. [25:46] >> Yeah. [25:46] >> But [25:49] yeah, I I I think I still want to use [25:52] the block editor. That's why it's there. [25:53] That's why it's been built. That's why [25:55] we're [25:56] >> we've gone down that road, if that makes [25:58] sense. [25:59] >> But looking back, was that the right [26:00] decision? [26:02] >> I'd say no for the hero. [26:04] >> For the hero. Just had a look at it now. [26:06] I mean it's just it's just classic [26:08] blocks [26:09] >> except it it is except when they say but [26:13] the break points don't work here [26:15] >> and there and that image needs to go [26:17] from a portrait to a [26:19] >> landscape at this specific breakpoint [26:21] because it doesn't work and this [26:23] overlapping section doesn't work on [26:25] mobile and where it does work on [26:27] desktop. I don't have the responsive [26:29] controls available to me. So maybe at [26:32] that point if if it's like this is [26:34] complex from a responsive point of view, [26:36] I can't use the block editor. Maybe [26:39] maybe that's one of the kind of hard [26:40] lines. I don't know. [26:43] Yeah. Mark says, "Hi, Mark. A custom [26:45] block with or without ACF is the right [26:47] way to go for custom page sections or [26:50] hero elements like this." And then he [26:53] goes on to say both in a second. Um just [26:55] because you can budget together with [26:57] core blocks doesn't mean that it's the [26:59] right approach. core block combinations [27:01] and patterns aren't suitable for ongoing [27:04] content maintenance. That's interesting. [27:07] Aren't suitable for content maintenance. [27:10] For ongoing content maintenance, [27:11] >> I say aren't suitable for design [27:13] maintenance. For content kind of works, [27:16] >> sure there's a fundamental problem there [27:18] with a block editor then. [27:20] >> Or maybe there isn't. I mean, maybe it's [27:21] still better than what we had [27:22] >> because we were all using [27:24] >> we were all using something outside of [27:26] core anyway. So maybe maybe they're [27:29] right. Maybe Mark and and Nick are [27:31] right. Like that's just custom block [27:33] territory. [27:34] >> I think that I think knowing what I know [27:36] today that is custom block territory. [27:38] Yeah. [27:39] >> Yeah. Yeah. [27:40] >> Yeah. [27:42] >> Okay. Well, you learn something every [27:43] day. [27:43] >> Yeah. [27:44] >> If if you've been having issues like [27:47] this as well, we'd love to love to know [27:49] how you how you dealt with them and how [27:51] you've uh you know, what solution you [27:53] you you chose. Yeah. And maybe the [27:56] reasons for that. I think that's um I [27:58] think this would be such a good episode [28:00] like here here's some layouts like how [28:03] would you go about this in in the block [28:05] editor or is that not block editor [28:08] territory? Is that something completely [28:09] different? [28:09] >> We could do that. We could we could take [28:12] take a design maybe a site that already [28:14] exists. [28:16] >> Invite three or four different people on [28:18] the show. They don't actually have to [28:20] have built it but just say [28:24] >> have your have your notes ready. people [28:25] send them all the the page that they're [28:27] that they're building. [28:28] >> Yeah. [28:28] >> And uh say like just come up with a plan [28:31] of how you would do that and then we'll [28:32] discuss that plan on the show and each [28:34] person can say okay well I would have [28:35] done this with these core blocks or well [28:37] I use elementary so I would have used [28:39] this or [28:40] >> you know this is definitely a effort. [28:41] This is definitely like you know that [28:43] would be super interesting to see how [28:44] people handle these different [28:46] challenges. [28:46] >> Let us know if you want to get involved [28:48] in an episode like that. I think it'd be [28:49] good fun. [28:50] >> Yeah. [28:50] >> Anyway um right back to the notes. [28:53] Moving on. Where are we up to next? Uh [28:56] where we going? Uh local WP issues. So [29:01] we all have a local development [29:02] environment probably. Um I am a M user. [29:08] Sorry, really old school. I've used it [29:09] for years and years and years and it [29:12] kind of just works. So I've actually [29:14] just paid for the upgrade uh to M [29:17] version number seven. I believe it was [29:21] 7.3. am now on which I thought was worth [29:24] it. Um, you get like upgraded PHP cuz I [29:26] couldn't upgrade to past PHP 8.1 and I [29:29] know the purists will just be saying, [29:30] "Oh, you could install it yourself. You [29:32] just do this." Well, it's just far [29:34] easier to pay the whether it's 70 quid [29:35] and then be able to get access to it and [29:36] press a button. So, that's what I did. [29:38] Um, you don't use M. I know you don't [29:40] use M. You use local, I think it's [29:43] called. And you've been having issues. [29:45] So, do tell. [29:47] >> First of all, I used to use M and I [29:48] can't remember why I stopped. I can't [29:51] remember. [29:52] >> Oh, there's your problem. You see, [29:53] >> it was probably I I reckon it was a [29:55] similar thing, though. It just something [29:57] went wrong and I couldn't figure it out [29:59] >> and and there was this new tool on the [30:01] block and I was like, "Okay, I'll give [30:02] that a go." Cuz that's I'm in the same [30:04] situation now. So, [30:06] >> for the last I don't know, [30:09] four, six months or something whenever [30:12] I've been starting up sites on local. [30:14] So, Local is a WordPress specific [30:19] uh development environment uh by WP [30:23] Engine. I think it was by Flywheel, but [30:25] the WP Engine by Flywheel, I can't [30:27] remember. [30:28] >> Um, [30:28] >> and is it Sorry. Is it It is WordPress [30:31] specific this local. [30:32] >> Yeah, it's not. [30:33] >> It It's Yeah, you start up WordPress [30:35] websites. You click plus and you're [30:36] adding a new WordPress website. [30:38] >> And you can't use it for non-WordPress [30:40] websites. [30:41] >> I've never tried. [30:42] >> Right. It doesn't matter. But [30:43] >> I I don't know. But when you hit that [30:44] plus button, you're in WordPress [30:46] territory. It's not like, "Do you want [30:48] to install a WordPress site?" It's like, [30:49] "Okay." [30:51] >> Yeah. [30:51] >> I I have to just jump in. My wife has [30:54] just delivered me a beautiful uh [30:56] >> blueberry muffin from little [30:58] >> nice. It's probably free bakery item. [31:00] >> Yeah. That doesn't matter. She could [31:03] have eaten it. She gave it to me. [31:04] >> Good. That's true. [31:05] >> That's love. [31:06] >> Um so yeah, so I I've been using it for [31:10] ages with no problem. It does exactly [31:12] what I want it to do. I want to start up [31:14] a new WordPress website. I click a plus [31:17] button. I give it a name like [31:20] website.est. [31:21] >> Yep. [31:22] >> I can set the PHP version if I want to [31:24] fiddle with that stuff. I create the the [31:26] user and within under a minute I have a [31:30] working WordPress website that I'm [31:31] logging into. It's really good. [31:33] Recently, I was starting to get a few [31:35] errors. So, every time I'd like boot up [31:37] one of my sites, there'd be an error and [31:40] then I just hit okay or cancel and it [31:43] >> and it would just still work. And I was [31:44] like, okay, I don't understand that [31:46] error, but uh but it seems to still be [31:48] working. And then just recently, just [31:51] before Christmas, I tried to load up one [31:53] of my sites and this error came up and [31:56] it just does not work. So, the site just [31:58] doesn't start. Um and and then so I got [32:03] into like, oh my god, what does this [32:05] mean? And I the error message really [32:06] didn't make any sense to me at all. It's [32:09] talking about things that I don't know [32:11] about. Um so I did what everyone does [32:13] these days and stuck the error message [32:15] into chat GBT [32:17] and I I just went down a rabbit hole of [32:21] Oh yeah, this looks like it might be [32:23] this. Okay, let's type this command into [32:26] the terminal. Okay, type that command. [32:28] Okay, [32:29] >> I don't know where this is going. [32:30] >> That hasn't worked. Type do this thing. [32:32] Type this thing over here. Okay, that [32:34] doesn't work. Okay, well that makes [32:36] sense. Try this thing. And we're like, [32:38] okay, that and then eventually I was [32:40] like, [32:41] I think I've deleted the website. I [32:44] think [32:45] I think it's deleted the database. Cuz [32:48] eventually the error stopped, but it [32:51] said cannot connect the database. And I [32:53] was like, have we deleted the database? [32:56] Is that how it's fixed the issue? [32:59] >> So you asked asked Bob whether he [33:00] deleted the database. He said, yeah, [33:01] yeah. Oh yeah, it's Yeah. And then I [33:05] said, "Why did you get why did you get [33:08] get me to delete the database without [33:10] kind of warning me that that's what was [33:12] happening?" He's like, "Oh, well, I [33:13] didn't I didn't tell you to delete the [33:16] database. You know, we simply did this, [33:18] which means that the database was [33:19] deleted." Like classic AI. Do you know [33:23] that scenario when people say, you know, [33:26] uh AI is going to help like save the [33:29] world? Um, but then there's the the [33:31] other scenario where you you type in AI, [33:34] can you please save the world? And it [33:35] does it by like killing all the humans [33:37] because we're the problem. That that's [33:39] that's kind of the situation I feel [33:41] like. Yes, well done. You fixed the [33:43] error by deleting the website. [33:47] Thank you. So So that's kind of that's [33:50] what happened. That was before Christmas [33:53] and then I didn't touch it again and I [33:55] came back, you know, after the new year [33:56] refreshed like let's give this another [33:58] go. I did give it another go with chatb [34:01] just taking a slightly different angle [34:04] and it did seem to fix it in the end but [34:10] the it was such an elaborate fix that it [34:13] is going to be quicker for me just to [34:16] delete the sites and recreate them [34:17] because if I create a new site in local [34:20] it works [34:21] >> it's just the ones that exist currently [34:23] don't work. So, do you know the [34:25] underlying problem? Like why is it that [34:27] the current sites don't work and the new [34:29] ones do work? [34:31] >> No. [34:32] >> Right. [34:32] >> I don't. Something about uh MySQL, but I [34:36] I I don't know what like it's not [34:38] loading up properly. Something is [34:39] corrupt. Something. But I I don't [34:41] understand it. [34:42] >> I really don't understand it. But oh my [34:44] god, I was going around in circles and [34:46] circles. It was so frustrating. [34:48] >> It is so frustrating, isn't it? When all [34:49] you want to do is just do your job. [34:52] >> Yeah. Yeah, you're like, I can't do this [34:54] thing cuz it's everything's just getting [34:56] >> all I'm trying to do is fix a gallery [34:58] issue on a client's website and I've [35:00] spent two days faffing around with local [35:03] and Bob. [35:05] >> So frustrating. [35:06] >> Yeah. Yeah, [35:07] >> I know what you feel like. Um, a few [35:10] comments. Uh, Exams, hi, thanks for [35:13] joining us. It's quicker to set up a [35:14] WordPress install on local WP. That's [35:17] why I use it. And and I think your [35:19] experience would be the same until it [35:21] doesn't work. It's a it was it's been a [35:24] really good product for I know you've [35:25] used it for a long time. [35:26] >> Yeah. Yeah. [35:26] >> Which is um which is good. And then Mark [35:28] says the same quick functionality is [35:30] possible with Laravel herd. Installing [35:33] WordPress is a single command in the [35:35] terminal. Terminal puts me off straight [35:37] away. Um usually work like WP sorry [35:40] usually work like PHP version switching [35:42] or database maintenance and SSL is in a [35:45] guey. I I have to admit I am fully [35:47] gooeyed up. I don't I don't I don't want [35:49] to have to do anything in the terminal. [35:50] I need a gooey um for whatever I use [35:53] >> which which is what M does uh to the [35:55] most. The only thing I use the terminal [35:57] for is WordPress um command line stuff. [36:02] >> Yeah. [36:02] >> Which is quite useful sometimes. [36:05] >> Um what do I do in there? Sometimes [36:07] importing some posts or something if you [36:09] got like a big import file or stuff like [36:11] that. I have to use it these days for [36:13] zipping up plugins [36:15] because [36:17] if you do that just with by right [36:20] clicking and compressing in on Mac these [36:22] days it doesn't work on WordPress [36:24] anymore. [36:25] >> That's interesting. It does for me. It [36:27] didn't for me. [36:28] >> Oh, they have they changed that. Have [36:30] they fixed? [36:30] >> I thought they fixed it in WordPress. [36:31] Yeah. [36:32] >> Okay. If anyone knows if that's been [36:34] fixed, let us know in the comments. But [36:35] yeah. Okay, that's good to know. [36:37] >> Yeah, [36:38] >> I thought I thought they'd fixed it. I [36:40] know you don't always update Mac OS as [36:42] soon as me though, so I wonder. [36:43] >> That's true. [36:44] >> It could be a Mac OS fix or it could be [36:46] a WordPress fix or it could be both, I [36:48] guess, but it definitely works for me. [36:50] So, yeah, it's good. [36:52] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. But yeah, [36:54] there you go. So, I'm in that kind of [36:56] world at the minute where I feel like [36:58] >> feel like the next steps are just [36:59] recreating everything. And in some ways, [37:01] that's not the end of the world because, [37:02] you know, when your local your local [37:04] setup gets a little bit disconnected [37:05] from reality, you know. [37:07] >> Yeah. [37:08] >> So, it's not clean slate and start fresh [37:11] might not be a bad thing. Would if you [37:13] do that would you keep the same tool [37:14] though or would you go with a different [37:16] tool [37:18] >> I am tempted to keep it because [37:23] >> you know it it works most of the time. [37:25] >> Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if something [37:28] must have been corrupted or some [37:30] something weird's happened. When you go [37:32] for something new though, you've always [37:34] got that that same experience in a way [37:36] that you've just had in that because I'm [37:39] using this new tool, the thing that I [37:41] want to do took me like 5 seconds last [37:43] time, but now I don't know where it is. [37:46] I know it can do it. I've got to find [37:48] it. So, it now takes me five minutes and [37:51] it'll take me five seconds next time I [37:52] do it. But there's always that, isn't [37:53] there, to try and get over. [37:55] >> I think though, like you're using M, [37:57] which is [37:58] >> a paid for product. You get actual [38:01] updates. You get actual support. Local's [38:04] free. [38:05] >> And there's there's no support. I mean, [38:07] there's there's community support. I'm [38:09] sure like I'm sure someone might jump [38:10] on, but like [38:12] >> it get updated. [38:14] >> It gets up it does get updated. I don't [38:16] know. I don't know how actively it's [38:18] developed and supported though. Whereas [38:20] with with M, [38:22] >> you're paying for [38:24] you're paying for it like and that that [38:27] means something. I I trust that more. I [38:30] going for [38:31] >> I like it. I know it's kind of the [38:35] I don't know. Oh, you're using M, you [38:37] know, like don't use that. There's [38:39] something cool way cooler than that. And [38:40] it's like but it just it has just worked [38:43] for me like all the time. [38:45] >> That'll be another good video. We could [38:47] do we could do you and me both setting [38:50] up a WordPress site, a development site, [38:54] you using M me using local and and [38:56] compare and compare the process like [38:59] >> is one way easier than the other. [39:04] >> Maybe you can certainly go on the [39:06] channel. Yeah, [39:06] >> go on the YouTube channel. Yeah. Yeah. [39:09] >> Cool. Anyway, so let us know what you've [39:13] do to fix it. I'm sure everyone will [39:14] want to know [39:16] >> how you fixed it, if you fixed it. [39:18] >> Yeah. Yeah. [39:20] >> And then the last thing I had on the [39:21] list was just like, have you built [39:23] anything with AI that is interesting? Um [39:27] I have [39:29] this week sometime. Yes, it can't be [39:31] yesterday. It must been the day before. [39:32] So we had um a support question come in [39:35] and the front end uh radius based search [39:40] wasn't working. There was actually [39:42] multiple reasons. The the the primary [39:44] reason was that the the API key was like [39:47] not allowed on the website. So we had to [39:49] sort that out and do the correct [39:51] referers. So it was allowed to use on [39:52] the website. But once we' done that, the [39:55] front end worked, but it wasn't actually [39:57] finding any jobs. So they type in [39:59] London, select London from the working [40:02] front end, and then it wouldn't come up [40:04] with any jobs even though they had jobs [40:06] that were in London. And the reason for [40:08] that is because they weren't geoloccated [40:10] properly. And it was all to do with a [40:13] change over in API keys [40:15] and the same issue on the front end. It [40:17] wasn't wasn't pulling. So a new job [40:18] comes in the API key wasn't working. So [40:20] it couldn't geoloccate it as that job [40:22] was saved. However, they are using our [40:26] job relay products and every job [40:28] asterisks not every job but most jobs [40:31] who come through job relay. We [40:32] geoloccate the job and the data that we [40:35] gather is then sent onto the website and [40:38] they can use it. So the data was [40:41] actually there and it was stored as post [40:44] meta. But the problem was is that the [40:46] tool on the front end I think it was [40:49] repress [40:50] was looking for different meta keys than [40:53] the where the data was saved. [40:55] >> So this client had a hundred jobs I [40:58] think it was. So I sent them an email [41:00] back and I explained what had happened [41:01] and I explained the solution and I said [41:04] you've got a hundred jobs. This is going [41:07] to be like a a go in and copy paste job. [41:10] Just go in and change the key names [41:11] using the post editor. It's the easiest [41:14] way to do it. I could build something, [41:15] but you know, I'm going to have to bill [41:17] you for it and it'll it'll it'll be a [41:19] while. So, they did that. They were [41:20] fine. They said, "Thanks for your help." [41:22] And they went through and did it and it [41:23] was great. But then I just thought, I [41:25] wonder what AI can do for this. So, I [41:27] just jumped into the chat GPT. I typed [41:29] in the sort of thing I wanted to do. I [41:31] had I had latl long saved as I think it [41:34] was job relay latitude job relay [41:38] longitude and I wanted as a different [41:39] name. So can you just write me a script [41:42] that will do this? Yeah yeah no problem [41:44] off he went wrote the script. Um, and it [41:47] kind of worked. And then I thought, [41:49] well, what about like if I actually [41:51] because I I just told it the keys, you [41:53] know, this is the old key, this is the [41:54] new key. I want you to copy across to [41:55] the new key so it's existing. And I [41:57] said, well, what about making a little [41:59] settings page so I can just type in the [42:02] original key and the new key I want you [42:04] to save it to. Yeah. Yeah, no problem. [42:06] Can do that. Off he went. Did that, [42:08] saved it, tested it. Perfect. Um, then [42:12] it added like batching them. So in like [42:14] posts 200 posts at a time because he he [42:18] told me he's like this might not work if [42:19] you've got 10,000 posts because it'll [42:21] time out. It's perfect. Did that. And [42:23] then I was like what about if I only do [42:25] it for one post type? Like let's say [42:26] I've got these keys across all post [42:28] types but I only want to do it for one [42:29] post. Yeah, I can add that for you. So [42:31] in about 20 minutes I had a working [42:35] plugin that I could just [42:37] >> convert one meta key to a new meta key. [42:40] >> Yeah. Um, and how how long would that [42:43] have taken me? It would have taken me [42:45] more than 20 minutes. Maybe an hour, [42:46] maybe an hour and a half. [42:48] >> Maybe maybe a lot more. [42:50] >> Maybe a lot more. I mean, I probably [42:51] could have done the sort of rough and [42:52] ready one that did the key, you know. [42:56] >> But yeah, so that that was something I [42:57] used it for this week. Um, didn't [42:59] actually use it in earnest in terms of [43:01] on that site because you'd already done [43:02] it, but I thought it'd be interesting [43:04] just to see how long it would actually [43:05] take. And um [43:07] >> stuff like that is kind of really good [43:09] for because it's almost like [43:11] >> it's just it's come it's like throwaway [43:14] code in a way. You know what I mean? It [43:16] doesn't it doesn't have to be perfect. [43:19] >> It just has to do the job that you want [43:20] it to do. [43:21] >> Um [43:22] >> yeah, [43:24] >> I had a brief look through it. It looked [43:25] like it was using things like nonses and [43:27] and escape function. So, it was I [43:29] haven't reviewed I haven't looked at it [43:31] in detail, but for a quick install, do [43:34] the job, take it away, it seems like a [43:37] good use of it. I don't know what you've [43:38] you've ever done stuff like that. [43:40] >> I haven't done I haven't done [43:43] throwaway stuff. I have I think we've I [43:46] mentioned it on a previous show. Um I [43:49] used it for some client work where they [43:51] asked for like this kind of calculator. [43:54] It was an admissions calculator for a [43:56] school and it was uh [43:58] >> they wanted they'd seen something that [44:00] another school had on their website and [44:02] you kind of select the year of birth of [44:05] your child and then it gives you all the [44:07] information about when you would apply [44:09] for the school at various stages. [44:11] >> Yeah. [44:12] >> Um [44:13] and it was remarkable. So I basically I [44:18] think I gave [44:20] Chat GBT [44:22] a couple of screenshots of the of the [44:25] tool that was on the competitor website, [44:27] the other school website and said I want [44:29] to I want to kind of recreate this and [44:34] uh I want you to give me the HTML, CSS [44:37] and JavaScript um that I that I can add [44:40] to code pen and and it'll work. and it [44:43] gave me the HTML, the CSS and the [44:46] JavaScript. I put them into code pen in [44:48] the boxes and it worked. And the UI was [44:52] like similar to what was on this the [44:55] school the school website in terms of [44:57] like the layout and everything. It was [44:59] >> it was amazing. And I've I've used it [45:02] for something else for another school [45:04] site. What was that? There was some [45:06] popup [45:07] >> some popup one of the schools asked me [45:09] to do and I basically said, "Can you do [45:11] this for me?" it was bang done. I was [45:13] like, "Okay, that would have taken me [45:16] that would have taken me a while, but um [45:18] but it was done in seconds." So, yeah, [45:20] there's there's definitely use cases for [45:21] it. [45:22] >> Yeah. [45:23] >> Another completely non-code and non [45:25] WordPress related. I've been using it [45:27] for stuff like for for golf. So, I was [45:29] looking at some new irons, some golf [45:32] clubs that were they were like reviewed [45:34] and stuff and they were supposed to be [45:36] really good and they were quite cheap. [45:38] you like a massively different entry [45:39] price to like what the top brands are [45:41] using. [45:42] >> Yeah. [45:42] >> But I was looking at I was like I don't [45:44] know what like shafts I would get in [45:46] them because so I literally read the [45:49] specs of my golf shafts to to Chart GP [45:51] and said can you tell me like what [45:53] what's equivalent spec on this one. It's [45:56] like oh yeah no problem. Yours are this. [45:58] They've got this flex. They've got this [45:59] you know this stiff length of them is [46:01] this. [46:02] >> These would be the most appropriate [46:04] because of this and this and this and [46:05] this. M [46:06] >> it's like that would have taken me ages. [46:08] >> Do you think it's right though? [46:11] >> I do. I do. Yes, I do. [46:14] >> Um I I I am suspicious like you. I [46:16] thought you'd say [46:18] >> Yeah. [46:18] >> And I would I would never hesitate. I [46:20] would never say just believe it straight [46:22] away. I think if you had no knowledge of [46:26] this thing, you probably don't want to [46:28] trust it straight away. But I do think [46:31] it's right in what it's saying. Um, [46:34] >> the other thing I had was back to golfer [46:37] again. So, my driver has an adjustable [46:39] loft sleeve. So, you can take the take [46:41] the shaft off the head and then if you [46:43] turn the the shaft before you put it [46:45] back on, it does things like changes the [46:47] lie angle of the club and the loft on [46:50] the club. [46:51] >> Mhm. [46:52] >> But on the end of the shaft, it just has [46:54] like dot plus [46:58] minus minus. So I was like, I don't [47:00] really know what they're doing. [47:02] >> So I just literally took a picture of it [47:04] and said to to chat, can you just tell [47:06] me what the difference is between these? [47:08] And he's like, oh yeah, you're using the [47:09] ping such and such a thing. It's got [47:10] this such and such system. Give me a big [47:12] table of all the options. You know, you [47:14] want to use this setting if you're [47:15] pulling it left. You want to use this [47:16] setting if it's like that sort of [47:18] stuff's really good. [47:19] >> Yeah. [47:20] >> Just other other uses for it that I've [47:22] been been using it for. [47:24] Yeah, communication for me like you've [47:27] you've written a reply to a client or or [47:30] to any to anybody and it's just like [47:32] it's just doesn't it doesn't flow right. [47:34] I've got I've got the information there [47:35] but it just doesn't read properly and [47:37] just dumping that in. That's I I'm using [47:40] all the time for stuff like that. Um [47:43] which is good. Although I don't like it [47:45] when I get [47:46] >> emails and you can tell they're like [47:48] basically written by chatbt. We got one [47:51] from a client that will remain nameless [47:54] uh towards the end of last year. Um and [47:59] it was just like that was 100% written [48:01] by chatbt and it's someone that we know [48:03] uses chatbt a lot and I really I almost [48:07] just didn't give it the time of day like [48:08] because I was like these aren't your [48:10] thoughts like you're not telling me what [48:11] you think. You just run this through [48:14] chat GBT and just sent us the the [48:16] output. So I don't want to be [48:19] communicating with AI when I think I'm [48:22] communicating with a human. So it's a [48:24] really f it's a really fine balance. I [48:26] think if you're using it to refine your [48:28] thoughts or give you structure or stuff [48:30] like that, it's okay. But if it becomes [48:34] AI just talking to each other and the [48:36] human sides taken out, I just I I get [48:38] less and less comfortable. But [48:40] >> yeah. Yeah. It's not the best. Yeah. [48:42] >> Yeah. Well, that is us wrapped up. Done [48:45] 49 minutes nearly. So, uh we'll we'll [48:48] give it a rest there. Um thank you ever [48:50] so much to everyone for listening, [48:51] watching. Uh if you've got involved in [48:53] the the chat, that's really good as [48:54] well. Thank you. As always, if you've [48:56] enjoyed the show, please hit the like [48:58] button. It really does make a [48:59] difference. Do subscribe if you haven't [49:01] already done so. And share this around [49:03] on your favorite social platform. It [49:05] would be nice to get some new listeners [49:07] and viewers as always. But until next [49:10] time, which will probably be next week, [49:12] but as always, we move around a little [49:14] bit. Then we'll uh we'll see you next. [49:17] >> See you soon. Bye.