We Found Love in an AI Place  ## Metadata - Author: [[IRL: Online Life is Real Life]] - Full Title: We Found Love in an AI Place - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/a07c59fc-9fe8-41f6-8bab-090bbbc8784d ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Discovering Biased Attractiveness Rankings** - April Williams discovered dating app algorithms rank attractiveness and mostly match users with similar rankings. - She found this rating system biased and questioned the power behind defining attractiveness standards. Transcript: Apryl Williams So someone in the audience says, I feel like my matches just aren't very good. Like, can you sort of give us some insight about that? And then Christian Rudder responds, and he's like, well, if you think your matches are ugly, it's probably because you're ugly. Right? And then he goes into explaining, let's say that you are a seven on a scale of one to 10. You're mostly going to see sevens, maybe occasionally you'll see an eight, occasionally a six, but for the most part, you're going to see people who are evaluated to be in the same attractiveness Ranking as yourself, which to me was just mind-blowing. And that's actually the moment when I decided I had to write this book, because I sort of thought, what in the world is happening? Who gave these white men the audacity to be able to say, oh, this person should go in this bucket. This is how we evaluate this person's attractiveness. And that was sort of my very first inkling of, okay, this system is not right. ([Time 0:01:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0b6bfbaf-582c-419a-a64e-cbd0dbb57b1f)) - **Normative Attractiveness Bias** - Dating apps promote normative attractiveness equating it to white, blonde, and thin features. - This reinforces racial and cultural biases globally, impacting users of color negatively. Transcript: Bridget Todd Explains how, in the universe of dating apps, normatively attractive equals white, blonde, and thin. Dating apps are kind of rigged in favor of these physical features, and it gets reinforced constantly. It has everything to do with the history of racism in the U.S., but also impacts the experience of app users all around the world. Apryl Williams I would say that Black women are positioned in this very complex space in which we are both highly desirable because of the sort of like racial fetishization culture that exists in the U.S. But at the same time, they are not sort of socially and culturally desirable, because as we know, in the U.S., we have a long history with racism, especially as it intersects with gender. There's this cultural narrative that somehow they aren't wanted. Something that really comes up for me about what you're saying is that I've heard this time and time again in my life. Bridget Todd People will say, oh, well, it's not racism. It's just a preference. So I wonder, what do you think about this? So I'll start by saying it's not just ([Time 0:03:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2dcb1b6a-8828-436b-8964-bc268968b504)) - **Attraction Is Socially Shaped** - Preferences in attraction are not purely personal but shaped by culture, upbringing, and race. - The idea that attraction is natural sameness preference is a misconception challenged by social factors. Transcript: Apryl Williams A preference. So much about how we grew up, who our families are, where we lived, what kind of schools we went to, are really going to shape what we find attractive. So I think the sort of friction there that I like to point out is that we can think that it's just this natural proclivity towards people who look like us, but it's really not natural. There's not an innate biological drive to seek out sameness. On some apps, you can filter people by race. Bridget Todd April talks about how some guys play around with these settings to try out different races for casual sex. It can feel really unsafe for women of color. But are race categories in dating apps racist? Apryl Williams No, I don't think it's racist ([Time 0:04:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c7ff1957-b1c7-4717-a8d5-d473a77be5f0)) - **Unexpected Tinder Match** - April Williams met her husband through Tinder despite initial skepticism. - Dating apps can connect people who might never meet in traditional settings. Transcript: Apryl Williams Absolutely. I think so. I would say that's probably me and my husband. Like, we weren't expecting to meet, like, the person that we were going to marry on Tinder. I don't think anybody is. But we just said, like, oh, hey, let's go for a walk and see how it goes. And we did connect, but I'm not sure that we would have if it wasn't for Tinder. Bridget Todd So it's not like you're saying that people shouldn't be using these platforms. You had a great experience ([Time 0:05:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/04165a5e-d070-4e86-9086-41ae7a734326)) - **Approach Dating Apps Mindfully** - Use dating apps carefully and critically, especially understanding racial biases. - Don't let app experiences dictate your self-worth or how you value your beauty. Transcript: Apryl Williams Yeah, absolutely. I'm definitely not saying that we should stop using them. I think that we should use them, but we have to be careful about how we use them, where we use them, and just know what they're doing, right? And I think for me, the biggest thing is really understanding your self-worth as a Black woman and not having your experience on the app dictate how you feel about yourself. Because we know that they're never going to accurately evaluate our beauty, our attractiveness, our desirability. As ([Time 0:06:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b91ea18e-18e3-4022-9b5a-d98ce4bf5fd6)) - **Neurodiverse Friendly Dating App** - Jamie Johnston created the Matter app to support neurodiverse dating experiences. - Matter matches people by personality and slows the pace, avoiding addictive swiping and racial bias. Transcript: Jamie Johnston We don't use any popularity-based matching scoring, and we certainly don't use anything which is based on the race of the user. Bridget Todd This is Jamie Johnston in the UK. He's the founder of a dating app called Matter, which is rethinking a lot about how apps typically work. Jamie Johnston So what we wanted to do was kind of like you would in a bar if you wanted to approach someone is you couldn't just go up to them and just poke them or just give them a thumbs up. You would have to say something to them. So we're trying to get that, replicate as best as we can, the offline experience into the online experience. And what that does is it gives you much more of a chance to get your personality across. It's not based solely on looks. Bridget Todd So a system based on actual personality, not just the size of the fish a guy is holding? Like that. Here's what happened. Jamie was a tech entrepreneur who was diagnosed with ADHD and autism at the beginning of the COVID pandemic. And he became very outspoken about neurodiversity at work. But on dating apps, he felt he had to keep these things quiet. I was leading a bit of a double life because when I was trying to find a partner and using online dating, I couldn't articulate that in a space where I felt comfortable to. Jamie Johnston I spent a lot of time looking for an app which talked about the mental side of dating and how to connect with people who have similar differences, but also opinions on differences, and I couldn't find anything. And that's where I got the idea and put the wheels in motion to found matter. Bridget Todd When you look for love on matter, you're matched with only five people a day, and for now, only in London. Jamie Johnston Part of the goal is to slow down the pace of the whole experience. We tell you why we've put you together, which I think is very interesting and certainly helps people to understand why the algorithm has put two potential profiles together we have No swiping and we have no just liking rather than saying hey you can stay on here for as many hours as you like and getting you very addicted and overwhelmed it's one thing that especially ADHD people find very difficult when they try to regulate dopamine is to be able to have a mechanism in their hand where they could essentially swipe through thousands of people unlimited In a day. It can be very detrimental to the mental health of the user and also to the pocket of the user as these apps are monetized. Bridget Todd Jamie says the algorithm they developed only matches people based on survey responses about their lifestyle, location, and how often they use the app. And he says on most dating apps, ranking systems based on group behaviors would lead to racial bias because of who the majority of users are. Jamie Johnston And so what that means is if that you are from a minority group, your chances of actually even your profile being seen are severely inhibited just by the fact that there is racial bias That exists within the vast majority of the users, which are white males. And so we felt that that was completely discriminatory ([Time 0:07:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/88adfbbc-2756-484b-bcf9-36edc9ac9c37)) - **Vet AI Chatbots Carefully** - Research AI relationship chatbots before use and don't trust the first app you find. - Look for transparent privacy policies and beware of apps hiding behind vague company info. Transcript: Speaker 2 With the AI relationship chatbots that we looked at, they were pretty disturbing. What I would want to see as a privacy researcher is a privacy policy that goes above and beyond, that isn't just kind of standard boilerplate language. And at best, we got standard boilerplate language on a lot of these privacy policies. At worst, we got stuff that was just kind of, you know, really bad. Some of these apps can say they can sell your data. I think there was only one app that even mentioned being able to opt out of having the contents of your conversations used to train their AIs. Bridget Todd So somebody listening might be saying, well, if somebody is having genuine conversations or feel like they have a genuine conversation or interaction with these bots that feels meaningful In their life, wouldn't sharing data just be the price they have to pay for that connection? Like, what's the harm in that? Speaker 2 What I would caution is don't just go out and use the first app that you find on the app store. Do a little research. You know, a lot of these apps, these AI relationship chatbot apps actually market themselves as wellness apps or ([Time 0:18:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0fd39053-1fc8-4e1e-96fd-0d5b8866454d)) - **AI Intimacy Has Privacy Risks** - Virtual intimacy via AI is vulnerable and raises privacy risks due to data collection. - Real human connection remains vital despite the appeal of AI companionship. Transcript: Speaker 2 Oh gosh, does chat GPT being used for sexual role play worry me? I guess on the one hand, yes. It worries me because, again, that's information that you've put out into the world that's been collected that you can never get back. And you're also just having to trust that ChatGPT is going to take that information and protect it and secure it and that their human reviewers aren't going to stumble across it. So those are all concerns. The flip side is people are using much less secure apps than Chat GPT for sexual role-playing as well. So, you know, chat GPT isn't great, but it's certainly better than some of the sketchier, kind of more sexually oriented, you know, sometimes leaning into abuse, even chatbots we've Seen. So, you know, it's a spectrum, but the biggest worry is, you know, it's not real. And, you know, what's real and what's not is going to be something that we as humans have to grapple with as we move into the AI world. But when it comes to intimacy and sexuality and love, I feel like as humans, the more real that is, the better we are. If you want to play around with this and experiment with it, that's fine. But also kind of just keep in mind that, you ([Time 0:20:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6c5a0d40-2849-48b7-94d4-51429897f9ee))