We Got to Sesame Street  ## Metadata - Author: [[Stuff You Should Know]] - Full Title: We Got to Sesame Street - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/5a82cae7-c116-43e2-a8ac-fdb316bb691d ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Sesame Street's Global Educational Impact** - Sesame Street started in 1969 to educate disadvantaged preschoolers and became a global phenomenon. - It now airs in over 150 countries with local adaptations to reflect different cultures. Transcript: Josh Clark Yeah. Although I would be really surprised if basically everyone listening wasn't at least familiar. But for those of you who aren't, that's fine. Sesame Street is a long-running children's television educational program that started way back in 1969 was season one. And has spread all over the world. I think it's in 150 to 170 countries, depending on who you ask. And even more than that, in 30 of those countries, at least, there are what are called co-productions where they have basically taken the ball and said, we're going to make our own version Of Sesame Street in conjunction with the people who make Sesame Street. It just kind of adapted to local customs and culture more. So it's a global juggernaut, and it's basically globally beloved, too. Chuck Bryan Yeah. I mean, not by everyone. I'm sure some people hate it. Josh Clark I hope you're wrong. Chuck Bryan Oh, I was just kidding. Okay, good. I think everyone has a soft spot, at least for Sesame Street. I watched it for sure as a kid, but I wasn't like, I don't remember years and years and years and years of watching it. I moved on to Electric Company, which felt like a little bit older version. Josh Clark Much more intellectual. Chuck Bryan Yeah, maybe a little bit. So I moved on to that pretty quickly, but I did love Sesame Street and the Muppets. And it was right in our wheelhouse, even though it was, you know, I guess it started just a few years before I was born, actually, sadly. Josh Clark Yeah, but again, it's one of the longest running television shows in the history of the United States. It's up there with, like, General Hospital. Like, it's just been going forever. It's in season 55 right now. It's been continuous every year since it started. And it is, at least in the United States, but I would suspect in a lot of parts of the world, it's basically a rite of early childhood. It's a rite of passage. You just kind of grow up on Sesame Street. And then, like you said, I think as you start to age out of it, you move on to other stuff that was also produced by people who produced Sesame Street. Oh, I hope I don't start saying Semacy Street because that's just not going to work. Chuck Bryan That might be the name of it in some country. You never know, as we'll see. Josh Clark They do have some great names for it. Chuck Bryan Maybe we should talk a little bit just out of the gate about some of the biggest characters, most iconic characters and when they were introduced because not all of them have been around For the whole run. But from the very beginning in the first season, we got Big Bird. I know we've talked about it, but there's a great documentary on Big Bird that you should watch if you're into that kind of thing. Grover was right away. Kermit was in season one. Although, as you learned, Kermit was already on TV and other areas such that people were like, Kermit's a little, I don't know if we're over him, but maybe a little overexposed. So they actually removed him after season one for a little while, right? Josh Clark Yeah, I think they were concerned that he was too commercialized. He was too associated with advertising and hawking products that they were like, this doesn't really have a place here. Yeah. Chuck Bryan We also got Bert and Ernie in season one, Oscar the Grouch, our friend in the trash can, the Cookie Monster. And then a couple of years later, we got Aloysius Snuffleupagus. Snuffleupagus, excuse me. Nice little factoid for your next dinner party is that he does have a first name and it's Aloysius. What about the count? 72. Josh Clark What about Telemonster? Chuck Bryan This was 79. I must not have been watching it that much at eight years old because I did not remember Telemonster. Josh Clark I remembered him, but he wasn't a big deal to me. So I don't. Yeah, I don't know. I guess we'd cross paths. Chuck Bryan Who helped? Was Dave help us with this? No, this was Dr. Claw. Oh, well. Laura Clawson. Laura might have been into Telemonster, so maybe that's why she listed it. Josh Clark Well, I know he's kind of a big one, but I think even more than Tele by far, as far as recognition goes, Elmo came along way earlier than I thought. He came along in 1980, but he was just kind of a background character. I don't even think he necessarily had a name or any big speaking parts but he eventually kind of caught on and became one of the more beloved Muppets of all time. Chuck Bryan Stay tuned for Act 3 to learn how that happened. Yeah. How about a cliffhanger there? Josh Clark Yeah. And then I guess we'll talk a little bit about the origins. We'll come back to some of the Muppet characters later on. Chuck Bryan Yeah. We should mention the hardware, though, because they have won a staggering 221 Emmy Awards. I'm not going to degrade it by saying, well, they're daytime Emmys, but they are daytime Emmys. And you can rack up a lot of those over the years. But 221 over 55 seasons, I don't care how you slice it. That's super impressive. I have zero Emmys. Josh Clark As do I, which I'm kind of surprised neither one of us has an Emmy for the work that we've done. Chuck Bryan 11 Grammys, pretty good. Sure. And then a bunch of Peabody's. Josh Clark I believe that the last time they got an Emmy, the producer accepted it, just yawned on stage and walked off. Chuck Bryan Just threw it in a big room, pulled the rest of them. Josh Clark Yeah, on the pile. So we should talk about the origins of all this. Because Sesame Street and the whole idea behind it grew out of two developing things in the mid-1960s. One was President Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society, which was this ideal policy movement toward ending poverty and inequality, getting rid of crime, helping the environment, Making a great society as far as progressives were concerned. That was one thing that was going on. So there was much more of an awareness. There was a little like they literally declared a war on poverty. Yeah. So there was much more of an awareness of the difference between the advantaged and the disadvantaged, especially among children in the United ([Time 0:02:01](https://share.snipd.com/snip/eca72f5f-190c-44e4-a792-12d9d9718959)) - **Iconic Characters' Introductions** - Big Bird, Grover, Kermit, Bert and Ernie, Oscar the Grouch, and Cookie Monster appeared in season one. - Elmo started as a minor character in 1980 before becoming iconic later. Transcript: Chuck Bryan I know we've talked about it, but there's a great documentary on Big Bird that you should watch if you're into that kind of thing. Grover was right away. Kermit was in season one. Although, as you learned, Kermit was already on TV and other areas such that people were like, Kermit's a little, I don't know if we're over him, but maybe a little overexposed. So they actually removed him after season one for a little while, right? Josh Clark Yeah, I think they were concerned that he was too commercialized. He was too associated with advertising and hawking products that they were like, this doesn't really have a place here. Yeah. Chuck Bryan We also got Bert and Ernie in season one, Oscar the Grouch, our friend in the trash can, the Cookie Monster. And then a couple of years later, we got Aloysius Snuffleupagus. Snuffleupagus, excuse me. Nice little factoid for your next dinner party is that he does have a first name and it's Aloysius. What about the count? 72. Josh Clark What about Telemonster? Chuck Bryan This was 79. I must not have been watching it that much at eight years old because I did not remember Telemonster. Josh Clark I remembered him, but he wasn't a big deal to me. So I don't. Yeah, I don't know. I guess we'd cross paths. Chuck Bryan Who helped? Was Dave help us with this? No, this was Dr. Claw. Oh, well. Laura Clawson. Laura might have been into Telemonster, so maybe that's why she listed it. Josh Clark Well, I know he's kind of a big one, but I think even more than Tele by far, as far as recognition goes, Elmo came along way earlier than I thought. He came along in 1980, but he was just kind of a background character. I don't even think he necessarily had a name or any big speaking parts but he eventually kind of caught on and became one of the more beloved Muppets of all ([Time 0:04:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e3f934f3-d106-439b-9c3f-e052e5e825d0)) - **Research-Driven Educational Content** - Sesame Workshop used research-driven development involving educators and psychologists. - They tested what content would best educate and engage children effectively. Transcript: Josh Clark Precisely. Chuck Bryan As the story goes, in 1966, as far as the origin, a woman named Joan Ganz Cooney and a dude named Lloyd Morissette were at a dinner party and they started talking about TV and like maybe TV could educate kids. Cooney was in the newspaper biz. She started producing TV. And then as soon as New York City got a educational television station, she came on board and started working for them. And I think a documentary on a Harlem preschool was her first job. And it really just got her hooks, got its hooks in her as far as like, hey, TV can do something different. Yeah. Josh Clark She said in a documentary called Street Gang, I think, Colin, how we got to Sesame Street is from 2021, that she wanted to find out what television would do if it loved people instead of Trying to sell to people. Chuck Bryan Amazing. Josh Clark Yeah. And this is a time where the FCC chair back in 1961 under JFK, his name was Newton Minow. He made a name for himself historically by saying that television was a vast wasteland. And I mean, he was kind of right. There was some good stuff on at the time, but also there was some really bad stuff too. And it was, I think what he was ultimately saying though, is he wasn't critiquing the smartness of the sitcoms at the time. He was basically saying like, there's nothing to be gained from like, this is all just dumb escapism and advertising essentially is what TV is. And we hadn't really come a very long way for a long time. Chuck Bryan Well, we haven't. We haven't. One step forward, two steps back, maybe. Josh Clark Hey, man, when they did away with the after school special, TV took a nosedive as far as I'm concerned. Agreed. Chuck Bryan As far as Morissette goes, he was a VP at the Carnegie Corporation, a very smart guy. He had a PhD in psychology from Yale. And his sort of lore goes that he was watching his daughter, his young daughter, watch TV test patterns before broadcast started early one morning. And he was like, oh, my God, kids, like they'll really watch anything if it's on a screen. This is not good. Josh Clark No. He said to Joan Ganz Cooney, isn't it ironic, don't you think? Is he related? No, I think she has an E at the end of her name. I think you're right. Chuck Bryan I just wondered, though, because she was in kids' television. Josh Clark Yeah, you can't do that on television. Chuck Bryan Yeah, I was like, oh, I wonder if there's a tie there, but I guess not. Josh Clark She got slimed. Chuck Bryan So they started doing a little research and they got a grant through the Carnegie Corporation because Morissette was a VP there. And he wrote a report about, you know, using TV as a good thing for preschool kids. They got another grant to develop like a more in-depth pitch, basically. Did a lot more research. Again, they weren't just sort of writing from the dome. And in 1968, they presented a proposal called Television for Preschool Children. And again, on the premise that like, hey, all we're doing is like trying to sell stuff to people. Like what if TV treated them with respect and love instead? Josh Clark Yeah. And I mean, TV was a great way to get to kids already by the mid 60s. I saw that, I think, oh, I don't remember what year it was, but around the time that these guys were starting, kids were averaging 54 hours a week in front of the television. That's almost eight hours a day. That's a full workday of watching TV for kids. Yeah. So, I mean, they were already tuned in. So the idea of getting to them through the TV in a way that you were trying to help them, to educate them, I mean, it was radical for the time, but it also is just totally sensible. But like you said, they weren't just going on this idea, like, of course, this is going to work. They tested this inside and out. And what became the Children's Television Workshop, which is now called Sesame Workshop, this collaborative of writers, producers, directors for the show, but also child psychologists, Sometimes religious leaders, educators, and also of different races, ethnicities, all coming together to basically say, here are some things we can, like, here's goals we want to Achieve in educating kids. We want them to learn cognitively. We want them to learn social graces. And like, I think if we try this way or that way, we can actually achieve that. But let's try this way and try that way and test them both and see which works best. Chuck Bryan Yeah, for sure. And they had to get kids to watch, though. Like all of this hard work, it would be really, really sad if kids just didn't tune in because, you know, as we'll see, like PBS and its precursor, the National Education Television, I guess, network was, you know, maybe not a lot of people watched it at the time. So they knew they had to get eyeballs in front of it. So from their initial $8 million in funding from ([Time 0:08:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b92f0ebb-7d2c-4704-86e3-06344e01b860)) - **Ensure Audience with Strong Promotion** - To guarantee children's viewing, Sesame Street heavily promoted the show through urban outreach. - They used trucks with loudspeakers and partnered with institutions like Head Start and churches. Transcript: Chuck Bryan So they knew they had to get eyeballs in front of it. So from their initial $8 million in funding from different foundations and some from the federal government, they spent $900,000 of that $8 million to promote the show, which is a pretty Staggering percentage out of the gate. And they had a bunch of, you know, they went to, you know, regular media outlets, of course, but they also hit Head Start programs and churches and daycares. I think you found out that when, like the week before the premiere, they hired trucks with like loudspeakers to just drive around, you know, a lot of urban neighborhoods, you know, advertising That it was coming And like you mentioned it from the onset, Mr. ([Time 0:13:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/962612ba-5979-4dd6-9b34-19596cce0263)) - **Proven Positive Educational Outcomes** - Studies found Sesame Street viewing improves children's cognitive, social skills globally. - The benefits are consistent across income levels and especially improve outcomes for disadvantaged children. Transcript: Chuck Bryan Because that was, you know, that mission statement from the very beginning. So they couldn't just be like, we're doing a great job, so we're good. They got into the educational testing service to do a study after just season one. And they sampled 943 kids from urban areas and then one rural area. And the kids, there were disadvantaged kids in urban areas and rural areas. There were Spanish-speaking kids. There were advantaged suburban kids in this study. And they found that kids really did learn from the show and that the more you watch, the more they learned and the more they knew, which is pretty great. Josh Clark Yeah, that was season one, right? Yeah. So they went back and said, let's figure out if this worked. There was a 2013 study that kind of recreated it intentionally or otherwise. But rather than looking at the United States, they took it on an international scale. And it was a meta-analysis of 24 studies that had been conducted on the effects of Sesame Street. And all combined, this meta-analysis looked at 10,000 children in 15 different countries. So it was a pretty robust study. And they found the same thing, that there were significant positives associated with kids watching Sesame Street, and that kids who watched more performed better in school and that This effect carried no matter the income level of the country, low income, middle income, high income country, doesn't matter. The effects were the same. And it hit three different outcomes, cognitive outcomes, learning about the world and social reasoning. And basically, it just turned every single one of these 10,000 children into a super child. Yeah. Chuck Bryan There was one, well, just why they have the S on their chest, right? Yeah. Super child. Another study, I thought this one was pretty striking to me because they could actually do a fairly direct AB comparison. The American Economic Journal for Melissa Kearney and Philip Levine did a study because they were like, hey, wait a minute. In those early years, there were UHF stations and VHF stations and some areas had some. And then, you know, a couple of neighborhoods over another, you know, they may not have the same access. So they could literally compare districts and elementary schools and outcomes with people who did not have the show at all and people who had it. And they found that the show actually did improve outcomes and that the positive effect of the show was particularly pronounced for boys and black non-Hispanic children and children Who grew up in other counties who had economic disadvantage. So it was literally helping and targeting the kids that they were hoping to target while also being good for everyone overall. Yeah. Josh Clark And one specific outcome I saw just for an example in that study was that the kids who watched Sesame Street were 14% more likely to be in an age appropriate grade in middle school or high School. So they hadn't been held back or they were 14% likelier to have not been held back than kids who didn't watch it. Yeah, pretty great. Yeah, statistically significant. Chuck Bryan Yeah, this is a pretty good quote, too. The New Republic, their quote is that Sesame Street was essentially the first MOAC ([Time 0:29:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c88a82c4-0dfb-4b73-83c2-d801e8cdae10)) - **Kami: Fighting HIV Stigma** - South Africa's Sesame Street introduced Kami, an HIV positive Muppet orphan. - This character helped reduce stigma by showing kids HIV positive friends are safe to play with. Transcript: Josh Clark And so the South African version of Sesame Street, Takalani. Yeah. I don't know why I had trouble saying that. Takalani Sesame. Delicious. Yeah. They included a character named Kami. Kami is based on the word kamogelo, which means acceptance in some South African indigenous languages like Zulu. And the reason they did that is because Kami is an HIV positive orphan of a mother with AIDS who died. And this is a Muppet who is basically playing with other Muppets to show little kids that you don't have to be fearful of having a friend who is HIV positive. It's not dangerous to play with them. And in South Africa, that was very controversial because a lot of people have HIV in South Africa, but it's still very stigmatized. So of course, Sesame Street in South Africa was like, let's get Kami in there. Chuck Bryan They could probably have an American version of that same character, or at least in the 80s. They could. Josh Clark I read that there was a letter written by a small panel of Congress people to PBS basically saying, don't even think about it. Oh, boy. Chuck Bryan Since 98, there was a there's been an Israeli-Palestinian co-production, which is super unique, obviously, called ([Time 0:35:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5781ce92-4798-4c6f-bbf8-cf48d15b1763)) - **Peacebuilding Through Sesame Street** - The Israeli-Palestinian co-production uses subtitles and positive interaction to bridge conflicts. - Viewing the show improves children's attitudes about people on the other side of the conflict. Transcript: Chuck Bryan Called Reckoff Sum Sum. Oh, yeah. Or Shara's Sim Sim, like you said. And this is a pretty great. It's Israeli and Palestine, Palestinian kids, um, together. And we, uh, they're from separate streets, but they get together and hang out and play and talk. And when they do, uh, the language, you know, either Hebrew or Arabic is translated in subtitles into the other language. And they weren't just like, well, we'll just pat ourselves on the back for this. They were trying to accomplish something. So they measured outcomes again and did studies. And they found that watching the show made kids in that area more likely to use positive terms to describe kids on the other side of that conflict. Josh Clark Man, Sesame Street. We should just say that after every great thing we talk about them doing. Chuck Bryan Yeah, and actually there's a quote that kind of goes along with that. Andrew S. Natsios, who led USAID under George W. Bush, he said the Arabic language version of the show was the, quote, biggest weapon against Al-Qaeda and Islamic extremism. Josh Clark Yeah, I thought about that, too, that like you're using Sesame Street to spread essentially global, good, basic human values in places where those are sometimes in short supply. The Arabic version you just mentioned, it's called Al-An Simsim. They use that in Syrian refugee camps because little kids in Syrian refugee camps, ([Time 0:37:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/091a9359-0585-49df-9ea2-4b17f731e148)) - **Teaching Kids About Death** - After actor Will Lee died in 1982, Sesame Street taught kids about death using Mr. Hooper’s absence. - Big Bird processes grief on the show, helping children understand loss. Transcript: Josh Clark With the death of Mr. Hooper, who ran Hooper's store. Yeah. Chuck Bryan I mean, I have a hard time even talking about this one. It was 1982. Actor Will Lee, who played Mr. Hooper, passed away in IRL. And they were like, let's not replace him. Let's use this as an opportunity to teach kids about death and grief. And Big Bird, they aired it on Thanksgiving, so parents were more likely to be home. They got together with, again, they weren't just like, hey, let's just have the writers whip something up. They got together with religious leaders and child psychologists to kind of figure out the best way to do this. And they decided on Big Bird kind of taking the lead and saying, very sadly, I want to give Mr. Hooper a picture that I drew when he comes back. And that's when they're like, Big Bird, I've got some bad news for you, my friend. Josh Clark Yeah. Gordon famously rolled his eyes. Chuck Bryan Yeah. He's not coming back. Death is permanent. And it was a huge, huge deal for not just Sesame Street, but just how we talk to kids about this kind of thing, you know? Josh Clark Yeah, because it took kids seriously as, you know, thinking, feeling individuals. Because they discussed replacing him with a new Mr. Hooper and just pretending like it wasn't a different actor or saying Mr. Hooper retired and he's not coming back, but he's retired, not dead. And they're like, no, let's let's use this opportunity. It is really tear jerking to watch. Chuck Bryan Yeah. In 1985, another big lesson came along when, you know, if you haven't seen the show, Mr. Snuffleupagus is this sort of big, I don't even know what you call it, kind of a big long-haired monster-y thing. Josh Clark It kind of touched a woolly mammoth, I think. Yeah. Chuck Bryan But Big Bird, Snuffleupagus ([Time 0:45:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/02f56e49-234b-4a6e-a92c-101a7f6dbd84)) - **Addressing Child Abuse Through Story** - In 1985, Snuffleupagus was revealed as real to adults to mirror child abuse victims' fears. - This addressed children's concerns about not being believed when sharing truth with adults. Transcript: Chuck Bryan The show, Mr. Snuffleupagus is this sort of big, I don't even know what you call it, kind of a big long-haired monster-y thing. Josh Clark It kind of touched a woolly mammoth, I think. Yeah. Chuck Bryan But Big Bird, Snuffleupagus was Big Bird's imaginary friend. And the adults, like, couldn't see this imaginary friend. And in that episode, he was by the rest of the cast and they were like, hey, maybe this can inspire kids who are maybe child abuse victims that you don't need to fear that adults won't believe You if you reveal something to them. And so, you know, they they tackled it through Snuffleupagus, all of a sudden becoming a real thing to the adults on the show. Josh Clark Yeah, because he always had been real. But anytime Big Bird tried to introduce him to people, he would just not be there for some reason or another. So he was real, and when they apologized to him, I think Bob, the music teacher, said, we'll believe you whenever you tell us something from now on, Big Bird. Like, they really kind of drove it home, beat the little kids over the head with this. Chuck Bryan They also tackled 9-11, not in a direct way by like talking about the Pentagon and the Twin Towers, but it was a show very clearly centered around kids, you know, dealing with like a big Sort of shared tragedy and how they might go about that. Josh Clark Oh, let's see. What else? Another part of that, too, is there was a fire at Hooper's store. ([Time 0:46:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3a4b7dfe-a63e-4b36-a8cc-d172c7b6e9f4)) - **Tickle Me Elmo Craze** - Tickle Me Elmo doll became a huge 1996 Christmas sensation after Rosie O'Donnell's promotion. - The toy caused shopping frenzy, black market sales, and boosted Elmo’s popularity massively. Transcript: Josh Clark The reason why is because in 1996, the Tickle Me Elmo doll became like the must have Christmas toy. And I know we've talked about it in one of our Christmas episodes, but let's just briefly mention it again. Chuck Bryan Yeah, I mean, thank you, Rosie O'Donnell, for this one. Tickle Me Elmo came on Rosie O'Donnell, and it was a big, big deal. This may have been a Black Friday episode thing, too, because trying to buy those Elmos at the time was a thing. There was stampeding. People went to the hospital. There were people selling them on the black market for like really high prices. So Elmo was a overnight sensation, like, you know, 16 years after or I guess 12 years after his debut. Yeah. 14 years. Josh Clark Also, Elmo is the only nonhuman to testify before Congress. That's right. On behalf of music education in ([Time 0:54:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2f15d398-a7a1-4ef9-856c-d6099e505cf7))