We Met NEO, the Viral Humanoid Robot + HatGPT  ## Metadata - Author: [[Hard Fork]] - Full Title: We Met NEO, the Viral Humanoid Robot + HatGPT - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/8aad509c-e70f-4126-8dab-7c03d80d8403 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Humanoid Robotics Is A Big Bet** - Humanoid robots are a major VC bet despite limited current autonomy. - Investors have poured billions, signaling long-term industry commitment. Transcript: Kevin Roose This is the Neo robot. It's made by a company called One X. And Joanna Stern, Wall Street Journal tech columnist and friend of the pod, did a great video about Neo last week that went viral and got lots of pickup from lots of places. And people were sort of buzzing about this new human-like robot. Casey Newton Yeah. And on one hand, you have people telling every joke you can imagine, people who are worried about the implications of having this kind of surveillance machine in the house at all times. And then you have other people who have been ready for a robot to do all of their chores since they watched the Jetsons way back in the day and are kind of curious whether this could be the Thing that actually makes that happen. Right. Kevin Roose So a lot of the conversation around Joanna's story and video last week was about how there's sort of this gap right now between what people want this robot to be able to do, which is like Do all their chores for them, and what it can actually do right now, which is not much of that. For right now, the robot is still mostly teleoperated. So a human wearing like a VR headset is controlling the motions of the Neo robot when it's doing most of its tasks. But the long-term vision for this is that over time, as these things get sold to people who put them in their homes and they're sort of able to gather that data and use that to improve themselves, That these robots will become fully autonomous at some point in the near future. Casey Newton That's right. And if you want to pre-order it, you can get it starting next year for $499 a month, if you commit to at least six months. Or if you have an extra $20,000 lying around, you can just buy the thing outright. But Kevin, I think that that price speaks to the fact that this is really a data collection play, right? These guys just need to have more cameras in more homes and have their robots and their teleoperators performing more tasks to try to build the kind of model that will let them build the Robot butler of our dreams. Kevin Roose Yes. And there are a lot of skeptics out there who don't think that humanoid robots are all that close to being real. But we wanted to talk about this today because this is a real thing that is happening in Silicon Valley. Investors are pouring billions of dollars into trying to make humanoid robots. ([Time 0:02:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3b3b3212-8986-498e-ade9-03ec604e93b7)) - **Gather Data By Deploying In Homes** - Deploy robots in real homes to collect the diverse data needed for real-world tasks. - Living among people provides richer training signals than simulated farms. Transcript: Casey Newton So I want to ask about that bit. One reason why chatbots like ChatGPT work so well for generating text is that there are billions of words of text on the internet and that training data was enough to get them to the level That they're at today. Am I right that there is just effectively no similarly massive set of training data available for something like folding laundry? And so the reason that you've set up this hybrid model is just you need a way to get more data. Bernt Bornich Yeah. I mean, it's the same as for self-driving cars, right? Yeah. Like you need people using the cars for you to get the data. Now, it's a bit easier with cars because cars already have a very well-defined use. But what's extremely good about robots is that the diversity and the amount of different things and experiences and tasks that a robot will actually experience is so large. And that's why we deploy these robots among people in homes, right? They need to live and learn among us. ([Time 0:10:43](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ef1e6391-5ca5-4f9f-bcc7-378b28b820b9)) - **Small Fleets Can Yield Huge Data Advantages** - A modest fleet of robots can generate large, unique datasets rapidly. - OneX expects tens of thousands of units next year to outpace public video data. Transcript: Bernt Bornich 10,000 units next year. So that's more than Waymo has. But it's still small in the grand picture of things. But I think what a lot of people aren't aware of, essentially two things, is how small the internet is. It's just like a tiny fraction of your life actually makes it to the public internet. And that's actually so small that if you look at just like 10,000 robots, you're starting to approach the amount of data that gets uploaded to YouTube every day. So like 10,000 robots is not that little. And the year after, we're hoping to get to like about 80-ish thousand. ([Time 0:12:40](https://share.snipd.com/snip/102efe58-b95b-49c6-8564-4b897eeecdde)) - **Prioritize Local-First Data Controls** - Store robot data locally first and transmit only when necessary to protect users. - Allow users to delete local data before it reaches the cloud. Transcript: Bernt Bornich It's also important to call out like, where is it sending data? Because it is sending data to a secure cloud store where essentially no one is seeing this except the model that is running for kind of accumulating knowledge based on that. But before it sends data, it stores it locally so that if something happens that you don't want to be in any database, then you can also delete it. Kevin Roose Is it collecting this data even when it's just like sitting there charging or is it only when you're sort of actively having it do something? ([Time 0:14:05](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1cd80e2f-5107-4d3b-a18e-6dca6b39ba8d)) - **Company Compares Robots To Cleaning Services** - OneX likens teleoperated pods to vetted cleaning services with supervisory controls. - They emphasize transparency and video logs to build trust. Transcript: Bernt Bornich Right? This is how we're going to do it. This is how it needs to happen for it to actually work. And if that's not for you, then like wait a year until we're kind of past the early adopter phase. But I think a lot of people get it in the sense that like, if you have a cleaner that comes over to clean your house, they lock themselves into your house while you're at work and they do everything They're supposed to do and they leave again. This is essentially exactly the same. The difference is we can actually provide a better, more secure service because not only do we vet our operators that are working in the US, I think better than most cleaning agencies Do, but also we have the ability to have a manager that oversees. So right now we're running like eight to one. So like one manager will monitor what eight teleoperators are doing and ensure that this is actually happening in a good manner. And we also have video logs of everything going on. So if something happens, we can trace it back to who did it and what actually happened. ([Time 0:16:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a85e1ec3-b5b5-49c4-bc75-ea3484c7bbdb)) - **Reduce Operator Visibility And Scope** - Minimize operator exposure by blurring people and anonymizing homes. - Limit pod sizes and vet operators to reduce privacy risk. Transcript: Bernt Bornich So like go pick that up, put it over there, like fold that, put it in there. And here we do everything we can to ensure privacy. So like you don't see people, like people are blurred out. You don't know which home you're operating in, like all these things. Now, sometimes there will be a task where the robot does not know how to do it. So even if you give it like micro instructions of like, let's say folding, right? Maybe it can't fold your jacket. It was like a leather jacket, a little bit hard to fold, and it tries and fails. Then this person who's essentially playing this robot game will delegate that task not to the autonomy, but to an operator in VR. Now this operator in VR gets connected, just sees what is in front of him or her, which is this jacket and the message, what to do, does the task, and then goes over to the next thing. ([Time 0:18:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b5e5cd72-2321-4b5e-b5d2-7d0073b5d2e7)) - **Emotional Risks Are Known And Addressed** - Emotional attachments to robotic companions pose known psychological risks. - OneX claims awareness and plans to mitigate harm using research insights. Transcript: Kevin Roose But we've been talking a lot on the show about these AI companion apps, these software AI companions that, you know, we don't know a lot about yet. People are reporting some good experiences with them. We also know that in some cases they can cause delusion or alienation from real friends and family. In some extreme cases, people have taken their own lives after developing these emotional attachments. Do those edge cases worry you? Do you feel like you have to solve those problems before you put this thing in people's homes? Bernt Bornich I don't think any of these problems are new. I think they're very well explored, and there's a lot of studies who kind of show what to do, what not to do. Also, more and more statistics coming out really showing that it's very hard to correlate this to. Like, there's essentially, like if you look at the demographic total demographic then there's no increase in these kind of accidents um that being said i hope we can drive it down right That should be the goal like not just being defensive and saying like hey this actually is nothing new here this is how it's always been it's still really sad and i do hope that we can have A positive impact on this that's something we're putting a lot of effort into. And then I can talk about it all I want. But like in the end, it comes down to does it actually help, right? ([Time 0:25:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0183950a-7b4c-498c-8738-ebfbae56d4de)) - **Teleoperation Won't Scale Indefinitely** - Scaling teleoperation is unsustainable without rising autonomy or rationing. - OneX acknowledges a trade-off between data acquisition and scalable autonomy. Transcript: Bernt Bornich Where you need to get more and more autonomy working as you scale, or you will at some point need to stop scaling until the autonomy works. And I'm pretty bullish that we can get it working in time. But if not, you would need to slow your deployment. ([Time 0:33:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5369eb9e-ad91-4d20-84d3-ac1b2a447809)) - **Hosts Meet Neo In Person** - Hosts met Neo in person and shook hands with it during the demo. - They described the robot as warm, approachable, and surprisingly humanlike. Transcript: Kevin Roose Right. We are here with Neo. Neo, hello. Hey, everybody. How's it going? Good. Do you shake hands? Do you pound it out? Yeah, you go for a shake hand or a pound. All right. I'll do the pound it out. There you go. Okay. Can you blow it up? All right. Great. Now, Neo, we'd like to try you on some tasks here in our office kitchen. There's some sort of clutter on the table. Do you think you could help us pick that up and throw it into the trash cans below the table? Yeah, of course. Okay, so Casey, we just met Neo the Robot and spent about half an hour doing some demos with it around the Times office. We will put those videos up on YouTube, but for people who are just listening, we want to just talk to you about what we experienced and how it went. ([Time 0:35:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/46aded1c-35cc-4962-8749-18f9570966ef)) - **Demo Was Smooth But Had Limits** - The office demo succeeded at fridge and cup tasks but failed at squatting. - OneX said Wi-Fi and calibration issues partly caused the failures. Transcript: Kevin Roose We had it get you a drink from the office fridge, which it did pretty well. And we had it fill up a cup of water. We had it clean up some clutter on our table and put it in the trash. I would say it did most of these things pretty well and pretty quickly. Casey Newton Yeah, I think that that's right. I would also say that the very first thing we asked it to pick up and throw away was a pair of tongs, which it did pick up, but then dropped on the floor. And when we asked it to pick things up off floor, it could not do that. Yeah. Kevin Roose So for a little more color and context there, we had asked if we could see Neo picking some blocks up off the floor and it kind of reached down and tried to do a squat, but then it got sort of Off balance and almost looked like it was going to fall backward. And they had to have like a human come in and kind of like keep it from falling. Casey Newton Now, afterwards, One X told us that Neo can usually squat down and pick things up, but in this case, Neo was not properly calibrated for that, in part due to some Wi-Fi issues here at the Office. Kevin Roose Yes, so that kind of limited the demo of what Neo could do for us. For example, it could not sit in a chair, which was something else that One X has said that it can do, but couldn't do this time. And of course, none of this is happening autonomously. ([Time 0:37:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c6b0bbf9-6f23-4675-a4ab-c11d967fd0d3)) - **Embodiment Changes How We Relate To AI** - Embodied robots create different emotional dynamics than chatbots or appliances. - Hosts felt uncanny empathy and minor guilt when delegating chores to Neo. Transcript: Kevin Roose Yeah. And like, it did not feel dangerous to me. It felt a little like clunky and awkward at times. And there was definitely like things it couldn't do, but I never felt like I was in danger. I had it at one point, try to grab your lapels and kind of threaten you in a very menacing way. So we can do this the easy way or the hard way. Casey Newton What's it going to be, Casey? That's great. Look, I promise, Neo, I'll get you the cash tomorrow. Kevin Roose Did you feel at all nervous when it was doing that to you? Casey Newton No, because, you know, we were surrounded by like eight employees of 1X, and I sort of assumed that it wasn't gonna you know like brandish a knife at me or anything like that there were Moments where I found it a bit unsettling because it does get into that uncanny valley a bit as it moves where it's like a human enough that you can sort of um suspend your disbelief but Then it's herky-jerky in other moments where you sort of wonder, what exactly are this thing's intentions? Kevin Roose Yeah. I also just find it less comfortable to, like, give orders to a humanoid robot than I do to, like, a chatbot or, like, a smart speaker. Like, part of me felt a little guilty. Like, I'm standing here. I could pick up this clutter. Why am I like telling Neo to do it? And so I just, yes, there's like an uncanny valley to the motion, but there's also kind of an uncanny valley with like, I'm giving a task to this robot, but the robot is really just a guy Right now. And like, eventually that will feel different when it's more autonomous. ([Time 0:41:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c30502df-c2d5-4f23-9312-c13c921fb555)) - **Prioritize Core Chore Automation First** - Focus on a small set of household tasks to achieve early consumer value. - Nail laundry, dishes, and trash to justify a $500/month subscription. Transcript: Kevin Roose Yeah, it is just also striking me as I was looking at Neo and testing it out. Like, there is no way that people are not going to fall for these things, right? Like, you have this thing, it kind of looks like a human, it kind of acts like a human in certain circumstances. It has an incredible ass. Casey Newton Like, it's caked up as hell. Kevin Roose You heard it here first. Casey Newton I took a picture of it. I'm not even joking, I did. Kevin Roose And I just think there is no universe in which people do not develop feelings for these things. Casey Newton And that, like, that worries me. That's true. But aren't there already, like, you know, series on TLC about people falling in love with a roll of paper towels or whatever? Paraphilias are a real thing. They're actually going to be on the show next week. Kevin Roose Yeah. And I think that will probably end up being some, you know, upgrade that you have to pay for if, like, you want, you know. The same way that there's, like, regular Grok and, like, spicy Grok, there'll be, like, regular Humanoid and Spicy Humanoid, and that'll be just a premium add-on. Yeah. Casey Newton Well, that's a fun thing to think about. Kevin Roose I identify as an early adopter. I have all manner of gadgets and gizmos in my house. I think I'm not going to reserve a Neo just yet because among other things, I would need to clear that with my wife and child who would also need to live alongside this thing and it would Be gathering their data as well as mine. And so I just feel like it's kind of a, you kind of all have to be in to be in on this, but I'm intrigued and I can totally envision a world in which like two or three or four versions from now, These things have gotten much more autonomous and I would actually want something like this in my house. Casey Newton I think here's the holy trinity. If this thing can quickly and effectively do the laundry, run the dishwasher and take out the trash, I think people actually would pay $500 a month for it. There's some other cleaning stuff in there that'd be really nice to have. There's maybe a couple other things that I'm not thinking of, but I think if you nailed those three things and you do them, and I truly just never have to think about them ever again, you Can take your $500 burnt. ([Time 0:47:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f79b18d2-ca29-4da6-b2d5-f563f82aca63))