What Does Israel Mean to American Jews?  ## Metadata - Author: [[Code Switch]] - Full Title: What Does Israel Mean to American Jews? - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/b3f73351-0141-4ad5-8284-d90e05bdb20c ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Shiva As Protest** - Will Alden described leading a shiva outside Kamala Harris's home to mourn lives lost in Gaza and Israel. - He used Jewish prayers and singing to reclaim Jewish space for protesting Israel's actions. Transcript: Leah Dinella Unusual shiva. This shiva was organized by If Not Now, which is a group that tries to organize American Jews around issues of justice and equality for Palestinians and Israelis. And the shiva was meant to be a space where people could publicly mourn the lives of the tens of thousands of people who had been killed in Gaza and Israel since October 7th. It took place outside of Kamala Harris and Doug Emhoff's L.A. Residence. So that day, out in the pouring rain, we said the mourner's kaddish, which is the Jewish prayer for the dead. But also Muslim and Christian mourning prayers as well, each led by Palestinian women who were there as allies. In your hands, O Lord, we humbly entrust our brothers and sisters And Jean, I don't know if you know this, but it's actually illegal for Jews to get together and not sing. Like, it simply isn't done. Gene Demby Wait, are you joking? Is that for real? I'm dead serious. Okay. Leah Dinella No, so throughout the day, there was a lot of singing. Will Alden Cease fire now. Cease fire now. Not in our name. Not in our name. Leah Dinella And a huge part of the Shiva was focused on the idea that there are a lot of Jews who are horrified with Israel's bombardment of Gaza and want to reclaim space as Jews to protest what's going On. Will Alden Unfortunately, our culture has really been captured by this sort of politics around unconditional support for Israel. And it's created a of litmus test where you can only be Jewish, quote unquote, if you're willing to support Israel in that way. Leah Dinella Our Jewish tradition was formed through thousands of years of telling, retelling stories of our persecution and liberation. Will Alden Our identity as Jews, our Jewish pain, and our history of persecution are actually the basis for solidarity with other marginalized peoples. Leah Dinella That last voice you heard was Will Alden. And his speech stood out to me because I thought it really captured some major points of tension. He talked about the fear that gets passed down in so many Jewish families from one generation to the next. Will Alden One of my earliest memories is of my mother, her horrified face after I drew what she thought was a swastika on my school notebook. It was not a swastika. I was trying to draw the Stusi symbol or the cool S, which was the early 90s in L.A. But the fear I saw in her eyes is something I still carry deep inside me. So We carry our people's trauma in our bodies. Leah Dinella But Will also talked about the way that trauma can be channeled into meaning and action. He said that for a long time, he felt kind of resigned to the state of the world. But when his son was born, Will said his heart expanded, and so did his sense of his own obligations. Will Alden How can the experience of Jewish parenthood not cause your heart to ache for Palestine? I feel this pain in my body, and all I can think about every day is the children of Gaza. Leah Dinella And, you know, Will ended his speech with a pretty intense thought. He said that the soul of the Jewish people is being poisoned by the idea that Jewish safety requires unconditionally supporting the Israeli government and military. Will Alden The question is whether we accept this poison or stand up in our fury and demand a different way. All of us together saying, not in our name. Not in our name. Not in our name. Not in our name. Gene Demby Zalia, you and I have talked offline ([Time 0:02:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cd92b7c8-e23e-44f8-8beb-786eaa21722b)) - **From Early Love To Critical View** - Eli Klein recounted learning to love Israel then becoming critical after college exposure to Palestinian narratives. - They now protest for Palestinian rights while pushing for nuance among non-Jewish allies. Transcript: Leah Dinella I'll start with Eli Klein, the youngest of the bunch. There are 26 trans from Texas, and this is what they wrote to me in an email. Speaker 5 Most members of my queer community are not Jewish and are loudly and proudly pro-Palestine. I also consider myself a loud and proud pro-Palestinian. The difference, though, is that I do see the nuance, and yet I feel like I am not allowed to point out these nuances, or else I will be labeled as complicit in genocide. Leah Dinella I called Eli up to get a little bit more of their backstory, and they told me that growing up, they learned to love Israel. Speaker 5 I can still recite the Israeli national anthem from memory and even went there twice. Growing up, I was only ever around Zionist Jews. I didn't even know it was possible to be Jewish and not love Israel. Leah Dinella That all changed around the time they went to college. They moved to a new city, started meeting people who were openly critical of Israel, and eventually took a class by a Palestinian professor, which gave a fuller perspective of the creation Of Israel. And that was kind of a turning point. Gene Demby Ah, so the classic college bubble-burstening experience. Classic, yes. Leah Dinella So now Eli is a vocal critic of the war in Gaza and a supporter of Palestinian rights. But as you heard them say earlier, they've kind of been taken aback by a lack of nuance that they've experienced in some places. Speaker 5 Many of my non-Jewish friends who only have learned about the history of the region in the last few months have shared calls for a total dismantlement of the state of Israel, some even Calling for all the Jews to go back to whatever country they came from. It's as if they think the state of Israel was created in a vacuum. Leah Dinella But Eli still remembers well what they learned about Israel growing up, that in the years following the Holocaust, it was a place that many Jewish refugees went when they felt there Was nowhere else for them to go, no home country to return to. So now Eli is kind of in a fraught position, attending protests and events in support of Palestinian rights, but in some personal conversations feeling a pretty constant vigilance To try and bring context and push back on some of the things that they find problematic. Speaker 5 On one hand, I am not anti-Zionist enough. On the other hand, I am too anti-Zionist. ([Time 0:10:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/31c51760-00a5-4a12-a1c2-bf2ca33e134c)) - **Family Rift Over Israel** - Matt Copans described generational clashes at a large Thanksgiving where views on Israel sparked intense arguing. - He feels pulled between parents' staunch support and his children's stronger criticism. Transcript: Leah Dinella Upstate New York finds himself in, too. Only for Matt, the fault lines are around age more than anything else. Marjorie Feld I think there's a clear generational divide among American Jews, at least in my family. Leah Dinella Matt is way more critical of Israel than his parents' generation, who he says think Israel can basically do no wrong. But he's way more sympathetic to Israel than his kids' generation, who he says are at the far other end of the spectrum, which he says all kind of came to a head at Thanksgiving last year. Marjorie Feld We all knew we were going to discuss it, because we're a large Jewish family, we talk about everything. We talk loudly about everything. And at some point, like, you know, is anyone not discussing Gaza? Leah Dinella There were about 50 people at this dinner, ranging in ages from, you know, mid-90s to young kids. Matt felt pulled in different directions during what became an intense night of arguing. And it's something that's still keeping him up at night. Will Alden When you know something bad is happening, but you don't know what you can do about it. Marjorie Feld And it feels like it's, especially since it feels like it reflects on you personally, or you're somehow complicit in it. Will Alden It's awful. Marjorie Feld It's not like, well, Matt, if you think about this long enough, you can actually create peace in the Middle East. ([Time 0:12:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a3221895-1e96-48e8-ab21-6045f27d6ec2)) - **Lifelong Activist Balancing Family** - Eva Hutt, 71, has protested Israel since the 1980s and organizes dialogues to keep conversations open. - She balances relationships with children in Israel and a settler brother while sustaining activism. Transcript: Leah Dinella She's 71. And she's a retired physician who lives in Denver, and she also describes herself as mixed race. Gene Demby And is Eva stuck in the middle somewhere, too? Leah Dinella Yes and no. Here's how she described her situation to me. Will Alden My kids in Israel are as opposed to what the current regimes are doing as I am. I have a son in the U.S. Whose reaction is more Zionist than mine. He's visibly Jewish and so much more aware of anti-Semitism in his daily and work life than I am. Leah Dinella She said she works hard to keep lines of communication open about Israel with her son and two of her brothers, but... Will Alden My third brother is a settler in the West Bank. Israel-Palestine has not been open for discussion between us for more than 30 years. Okay. Leah Dinella So Eva is navigating a lot within her family, but she's pretty clear about what she believes herself. She's been involved in anti-war activism and protesting Israel for more than 50 years now, from the time she was, you know, a mouthy teen getting into fights with her rabbi at her confirmation Classes. Okay. Gene Demby So Eva's been a rabble rouser for a long time. Leah Dinella She has. And she said she's seen how things wax and wane. Will Alden I'm thinking about the first time I took a very public stance in Denver was during the massacre in Lebanon at Sabra and Shatila. Leah Dinella That was in 1982, and it was just one of the many times that Eva would see tensions around Israel's actions spike. And right after October 7th, Eva said suddenly all of the arguments and raw nerves of the past were right at the surface again. Will Alden You know, Jews just go from, they just go to that scared place, which is such an ugly place. You know, it's like your limbic system just kicks in automatically. And that's what makes it so difficult. Leah Dinella Despite the difficulty, Eva has kept trying to push the conversation forward. Most recently, she organized a dialogue series at her school to get people with different views to start listening to each other. She says it was heated at times, but still powerful. So some of it is an act of will. Will Alden You know, the Gramsci expression, pessimism of the mind, optimism of the will. That's where I'm at. Leah Dinella And that despair is really not an option. And since October 7th, she said she's heartened by seeing more Jews call for limits on the U.S.'s military support of Israel, from everyday people to powerful politicians like Chuck Schumer. Like, you know, before the war, that would not have happened. It needed to happen. Will Alden But the only people who were talking about that were Jewish Voices for Peace. And now lots of people are talking about it. That energizes me. ([Time 0:14:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/17b80332-f1cf-4f9f-949a-c6507659724d)) - **Anti-Nationalism Roots** - Marjorie Feld traces U.S. Jewish anti-Zionism back to the 1885 Pittsburgh Platform and early Reform Jewish anti-nationalism. - Early critics feared Zionism would fuel dual-loyalty accusations and hinder assimilation into American society. Transcript: Marjorie Feld Truth of it is that as early as Jewish nationalism was on the scene in American Jewish life, so were questions about the role that that might play in American Jewish life. Oh, okay. So who is that we're hearing? Leah Dinella That is a woman named Marjorie Feld. Marjorie Feld I'm a professor of history at Babson College. And her book is called Threshold of Dissent, A History of American Jewish Critics of Zionism. Leah Dinella I wanted to get a scope of how these discussions have played out over time. So I asked Marjorie how common it was for American Jews to be critical of Israel throughout history. Marjorie Feld Oh, it's always a very marginal population, a very marginal number of American Jews, especially in the early 20th century and obviously especially in the mid-20th century, right After the Holocaust. Leah Dinella There have always been vocal anti-Zionist Jews, she said, but they haven't had a really prominent voice in mainstream Judaism until more recently, which is one of the reasons why she Says every generation of Jews that speaks out against Israel thinks it's the first. Wow. Gene Demby Okay, I know we're going to get into this, but because you just used the phrase anti-Zionist, I feel like now is probably a good time to get some definitions out the way, since different People use the term Zionism and anti-Zionism really, really differently. Leah Dinella Yes, good point. Okay, so in her book, Marjorie really talks about three different groups, Zionists, anti-Zionists, and non-Zionists. So Zionists, super broadly, are people who believe in the need for a Jewish nation state in the land of Israel. Non-Zionists believe that Israel is an important cultural and religious center for Jews, but that it doesn't need to be a country. And anti-Zionists are specifically against the idea of a Jewish nation state. And as you just heard her say, those last two groups have always been fairly small. Gene Demby Okay, so where does the history of anti- and non-Zionist Jewish thought begin in the United States? ([Time 0:24:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/cfe7380c-9b39-4e97-89cc-dcfba048fade)) - **Postwar Unity Cemented Support** - After the Holocaust, many Jewish organizations muted public criticism and rallied around unity and Israel as a refuge. - That postwar consensus shrank anti-Zionist voices and reframed dissent as dangerous to Jewish safety. Transcript: Marjorie Feld The Holocaust. Yep. Leah Dinella And after the Holocaust, the conversation totally changes. Marjorie Feld Almost all organizations really mute the criticism. Maybe mute isn't the right word. I just think they have to see everything through the lens of the tremendous destruction and losses of the Holocaust. And so many anti-Zionist individuals and organizations tend to move toward non-Zionism and an embrace of support for Israel as a safe haven for Jews in a world that has grown incredibly Perilous for them. Gene Demby Okay, so how does that change the landscape for Jewish anti-Zionist thought? Leah Dinella Well, it makes this relatively small group of vocal anti-Zionist Jews even smaller. Marjorie Feld Because Marjorie says there's this widespread belief that in the face of persecution and oppression and attempted genocide in the Holocaust, right, that Jewish unity is paramount And that we have to, we, the American Jewish community, must appear to be of one mind in order to be strong, in order to fight our enemies. ([Time 0:28:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d78519dc-1efb-4466-8bff-7078ef50b1cc)) - **Costs Of Dissent In Midcentury** - William Zuckerman ran a small critical newsletter and lost funding and positions after criticizing Israel and advocating Palestinian rights. - Israeli diplomats and Jewish institutions pressured to silence him as a threat to American Jewish safety. Transcript: Leah Dinella Here's an example. There was this journalist named William Zuckerman, and from 1948 to 1961, he published a newsletter out of New York City called The Jewish Newsletter. Gene Demby So William clearly spent a lot of time workshopping the name, okay. Leah Dinella It was brilliant. And that newsletter published some really critical perspectives on Israel. Zuckerman at one point writes about how, for example, Arabs are human beings who have a moral right to the land where their ancestors have lived for more than a thousand years. And he says, isn't it kind of messed up that Jews would treat them like inanimate objects who can just be moved around at will? And some people are really threatened by that, and they try to shut the newsletter down. But, Gene, I think this is really important to note. Like, this newsletter is never all that huge. It only ever has a few thousand subscribers total. But Marjorie said that even so, William Zuckerman is subject to some very real consequences. Marjorie Feld He gets censored by way of having funding removed and losing positions in Jewish journals, Yiddish and English speaking. ([Time 0:30:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/518878fa-9501-4393-aa5f-d8f5002967b8)) - **Classroom Backlash In The 1970s** - Tufts professor Marty Blatt faced violent disruption and threats when teaching a course including anti-Zionist views in 1972–73. - Jewish Defense League protests and hostile calls showed how teaching Palestinian history could provoke severe backlash. Transcript: Leah Dinella Think one of the clearest examples is the story of this professor named Marty Blatt. And for two years, in 1972 and 1973, he taught a course at Tufts Experimental School that was a history of American support for Zionism. Marjorie Feld And he was very clear that he wanted to teach that anti-Zionism was not equal to anti-Semitism. So he had in his class both Zionists and anti-Zionists. Gene Demby I am already nervous about this is going. Marjorie Feld As you should be. In the middle of his semester in March of 73 there were members of the Jewish Defense League who disrupted his class marched into his class handed out a flyer that said something I called Leah Dinella It an anti-Jewish outrage, and they started making demands that Tufts shut down the class. From there, the press got involved. First, it's local Jewish papers in Boston, then it's everywhere. And people are arguing pretty strongly that the class was dangerous for American Jewry. Some of the critics of this class were operating in good faith, of course, but you also see strands of it that are really, really cynical and ugly. Marjorie Feld Blatt's grandfather had died in a Nazi labor camp. And somebody called, Frank called him one night during all of this controversy and said that his parents should not have been saved. And the debate just kept erupting outward. Leah Dinella The newspapers keep blowing up. The Boston Jewish community puts together funds to teach a counter course. Platt keeps getting threats. And Marjorie says it actually looked a lot like what we're seeing happen on certain college campuses today. ([Time 0:33:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/aab5b5dc-a694-4fd0-b5cf-779e7407e259)) - **Facade Of Unity Is Gone** - Marjorie Feld says post-October 7 protests shattered the facade of Jewish unity and made public dissent unmistakable. - Young American Jews' visible protests force recognition that unity around Israel no longer holds. Transcript: Leah Dinella Says one of the big differences today, though, is that the facade of unity has been shattered beyond repair. And that's been happening for a while, but it's undeniable right now. She pointed to the protests that are happening in support of Gazans. Marjorie Feld I mean, they're so incredibly powerful and visible that I think any attempt to maintain this idea that Jewish unity is paramount has already been crumbling for quite a while. And these post-October 7th, the protests that are happening in our own time in the United States among American Jews, especially, but not only, among young American Jews, really accent. ([Time 0:35:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7090ed6d-a315-44db-b971-e39fc4e19958)) - **Broaden Coalitions And Inclusion** - Build coalitions with Black, Arab, Palestinian, and Israeli-left groups to broaden perspectives and solidarity. - Expand Jewish life by welcoming critics and protesters to make communities more inclusive. Transcript: Leah Dinella Jean, I was kind of ready to end it there because I'm a cynic and pessimist and pain is where I live. Gene Demby That is very much a zip code, yes. Leah Dinella But Marjorie said it was important to think about some of the positive things that this pain is actually producing. Marjorie Feld Is it okay if I tell you the two most exciting parts? Leah Dinella Okay. One piece of it, she said, is the coalition building that's coming out of all this. Marjorie Feld Because a lot of the people I write about, especially in the second half of the 20th century, their anti-Zionism was a means, or non-Zionism, was a means to create coalitions with Black Americans, Arab Americans, Palestinians, the Israeli left, and that opens doors rather than closes them. That's the first part that really excites me. These building of coalitions, these things make me feel hope. Leah Dinella And the second thing is that having more space for a diversity of opinions is actually bringing more people into Judaism. Marjorie Feld And I think that a lot of these young Jews and Jews of all ages who are involved in these protest movements are really doing quite amazing work, making American Jewish life more inclusive And bringing in people who are entirely apart, you know, who are really turned off by the American Jewish community, put off by it, who are being pulled in through protest. ([Time 0:39:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6bb35279-1319-477c-9ec1-916ab78eaf59)) - **Protest Reforges Jewish Identity** - Will Alden found activism renewed his Judaism, shifting it from fear to values like tzedek and justice. - He wants to remake Jewish tradition into something proud to pass to his child through justice-centered practice. Transcript: Leah Dinella And in fact, it was actually through his protesting that he was able to reignite a conversation with his mom about Judaism. It's through protesting that he was able to gain a community. And it's through protesting that he started to feel his Judaism take shape in his life not as a space of fear or pain, but one of justice and truth-telling. Will Alden You know, the word tzedek, justice in Hebrew, is something that many Jewish people in America grow up with. I mean, this is a Jewish value. It's a very ancient Jewish value. And I would love to see a Jewish community, a Jewish future, in which our ancient values are applied to the situation in which our fellow Jews are oppressing another group of people. That to me is really the only thing that really gives me hope right now is that kind of vision. Leah Dinella Will said that when he had a kid, the center of his universe shifted. Suddenly, he was in charge of something that was much more precious to him than his own life. But it also changed how he felt about all children, particularly as he watched the news out of Gaza. Will Alden It's hard for me to escape the awareness that, you know, all those children are just as beautiful and amazing as my kid. And that allows me to examine my life in a new way. And I feel I have a stake in the future in a new way. I mean, speaking of creating a Jewishness for the future, I feel like a custodian of the Jewish tradition in a way that I didn't feel before. I also want to remake it and make it into something that I can feel really proud of and proud to pass down. ([Time 0:41:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bc0d5965-c682-4b9d-9e9d-26606429778b))