What Makes Someone a Supercommunicator With Charles Duhigg  🔗 **Source:** [What Makes Someone a Supercommunicator With Charles Duhigg](https://share.snipd.com/episode/abe91cd8-31d8-4cd1-8307-634dde88ca7c) ## Highlights - **Supercommunicators Turn Simple Habits Into Consistent Connection** - Supercommunicators are people who consistently use a small set of skills to connect quickly and deeply. - Charles Duhigg says friends who make you feel better by text or phone are examples of how ordinary skills become habits and generalize. Transcript: Charles Duhigg So if you were having a bad day and you came home and you wanted to call someone, just talking to them would make you feel better. Do you know who that person is? Like, does that person pop into your head who you would call? Guy Kawasaki Well, a seemingly simple question, Charles, is very complicated. I don't know if you know, but I am deaf. And because I'm deaf, I use the phone as little as possible. So the question might be, who would I message? Charles Duhigg Yeah. So I did not know that. That is fascinating. Has that been true for a long time? It's been true about five years. Guy Kawasaki I have two cochlear implants, so I can hear. Obviously, we're doing an interview, but I wouldn't say that my preferred method of communication is audio. So, you know, obviously there's my wife and also there is a small group of friends that I have that I text so much to. Charles Duhigg It's ridiculous. I want to ask you about what it's like as someone who's become deaf asking about communication, because it's fascinating to me. But I'll answer your question, which is, the people that you reach out to when you want someone just to chat with by text or any other way, those people are super communicators for you, Right? They talk to you in a certain way. They know to ask you certain kinds of questions. They know when you're looking for empathy or when you're looking for them to actually help you solve a problem. They prove to you that they're paying attention and that they're listening. And you probably do the exact same thing back to them. When you're talking to your wife or when you're texting with your friends, you're doing these things almost subconsciously to show them that you want to connect with them, to show them That you want to be in conversation with them. So we're all super communicators at one point or another. But the difference is that some people are consistent super communicators. Some people recognize these skills that you use with your friends and with your wife and they use with you. And they say, you know what, I could use those all the time. They're just skills I can practice and make into habits. ([Time 0:03:59](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2af5d6f-7bd8-439b-98a3-46acb9fe46c6)) - **Three Brain Modes Drive Every Conversation** - Conversations use three brain systems: practical (prefrontal), emotional (amygdala), and social (medial network). - Neural entrainment happens when both people engage the same system, which increases trust and closeness. Transcript: Charles Duhigg There's these practical conversations where we're solving problems together, we're making plans. But then there's emotional conversations where I tell you what I'm feeling, and I don't want you to solve my feelings. I want you to empathize with me. And then there's social conversations, which is about how we relate to each other. And I think that there are some people who get very practiced in one of those kinds of conversations and it becomes very comfortable to them. So we've all had that situation where somebody comes to us with a problem and they're obviously feeling upset about this problem. And instead of empathizing with them, we try and solve their problem. Right. And then they're like, look, I don't want you to solve this for me. I want you like just to listen and understand that I'm having a hard time. I think what's happening there is that oftentimes the person who's trying to solve the problem, they're very comfortable in practical conversations. And so as a result, that's their default. So it's not that people are particularly good one-on or with a group. It's that oftentimes what we practice is the thing that we fall back on because it feels more comfortable and safer to us. Guy Kawasaki Now, are you saying with these three kinds of conversations, which is the organizing principle of your book, are you saying that there are three kinds of conversations or there are Three kinds of things happening in any given moment in any conversation so it's a really good question and to explain i i should mention what the neuroscientists see which is that those Charles Duhigg Three kinds of conversations i mentioned they use different parts of our brains so whether it's a kind of conversation or whether it's the activity of what's happening inside the conversation The question is is it using the prefrontal cortex, which is where that kind of practical conversation takes place, that planning and decision-making? Is it using the interior of the brain, the amygdala, which is where the emotional conversation happens? Or is it using what's known as the medial network, which is where the social conversation happens, and it's sort of at the periphery of your skull? And the reason why that question is important is because when you are in a discussion with someone, your body and your brain starts to change to match them. So like even in this conversation, without us realizing it, our heart rates have started to match each other. Our breath patterns have started to match each other. Equally importantly, the activity within our brains is looking more and more similar. If we actually were in like an MRI, an fMRI, we would see that our brains are becoming more synchronized. Within neuroscience, this is known as neural entrainment. And it's kind of the goal of communication. It makes us feel closer to each other. It makes us trust each other more. And so when I am discussing something emotional and I'm using the amygdala, the center of my brain, if you come back trying to give me a solution, solve the problem for me, and you're using Your prefrontal cortex, it's very hard for us to feel connected because we're actually using different parts of our brains. It's hard for us to achieve that neural entrainment. ([Time 0:13:59](https://share.snipd.com/snip/256c8b11-984d-4541-a411-9ff677e2fdec)) - **Ask Do You Want Help Heard Or Hugged** - Ask before you act: do you want to be helped, heard, or hugged? - Use this simple trio to clarify whether the speaker needs practical help, empathy, or social connection before responding. Transcript: Guy Kawasaki What is the word when things start with the same letter? Oh, alliteration. So you had alliterative tricolon, which is, do you want a conversation for help, heard, or hugged? I love that. Charles Duhigg Yeah, I love it too. And of course, that's the practical, the emotional, and the social. And what's amazing, anyone who's listening who has young kids at home, because this phrase, do you want to be helped, hugged, or heard, actually comes out of teaching. Teachers use this all the time. Because if you have a young kid at home, and they come up to you, and there's something they really want to talk to you about. And you ask them, wait, wait, before you tell me, do you want to be helped? Do you want to be hugged? Or do you want to be heard? They know exactly what they want. They will tell you immediately what they want. They'll say something like, no, I don't need you to help me. I just want you to know that Jimmy's being mean to me. Right? They just need to be heard in that case. And it is really powerful because oftentimes we know what we need out of a conversation we have trouble sometimes expressing that to the other person but when the other person asks when They ask like look do you want me to help you solve this problem or do you just need to get this off your chest and tell me about it that's actually really empowering to have someone to ask You you want. ([Time 0:17:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b1dca369-d168-4214-a45f-5e19a412f05a)) - **Wealth Can Erode Honest Conversation Unless Countered** - Wealth often reduces candid feedback because entourages become yes-people, which can degrade conversational skill. - Yet some wealthy leaders lean into humility and ask more questions as they gain power, improving communication. Transcript: Charles Duhigg That's a really good question. No one's ever asked me that before. I think that the answer is, so certainly we know that wealth, and in particular intense wealth, is negatively correlated with actually having real conversations, right? And I don't think it's the wealth. I think what happens is that once someone is a hundred millionaire or more, you start getting surrounded by all these people who don't want to offend you, right? They don't want to disagree with you. They want to be yes men or yes women. And so I think in those cases that can actually hurt communication because you don't have the feedback in your life to tell you when you're communicating well and when you're communicating Poorly. That being said, there are a number of people who become wealthy and successful because they're good communicators. And I think they lean into that communication. I had a friend who worked in the Obama White House. And he said that one of the things that really struck him, and he was there for all eight years, he said, Obama over those eight years, rather than becoming more self-certain and more Dismissive, did exactly the opposite. That like it was in his second term that he was asking more questions and he was admitting his uncertainties even more vocally. So I think for some people, when we are successful financially or career-wise, there's a self-confidence that comes from it that allows us to be humble and allows us to recognize our Faults more readily. ([Time 0:19:17](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4d2ba362-4a0b-448e-a5d6-39cc904ce48f)) - **Make Listening Active Not Passive** - Actively listen: prove attention with follow-ups, matching emotion, and processing what was said. - If people feel you're just waiting to speak, they'll stop listening to you, so ask clarifying and follow-up questions. Transcript: Charles Duhigg The next one that we discussed is asking more questions, right? As I mentioned, super communicators ask many more questions than the average person. And some of those questions are sort of throwaway questions. So like, oh, what'd you think about that movie? Or, oh, did you like that restaurant last night? They're basically just invitations into the conversation. Like, I want you to participate in the conversation. But super communicators also ask a fair number of what are known within psychology as deep questions. And we were talking about this with Nick Epley. A deep question is something that asks me about my values, my beliefs, or my experiences. And that can sound kind of intimidating, but it's as simple as if you meet someone who's a doctor, instead of saying, oh, what hospital do you work at? You could ask them, oh, what made you decide to go to medical school? That second question, it invites that person to tell you who they are. They might talk about the fact that they saw their dad get sick, or they might talk about the fact that they love being a healer. They love being able to help people. So they're telling me about their experiences and their values. And that's going to be a much more real conversation. We're going to feel more connected to each other. We're going to achieve that neural entrainment I mentioned. So that's the second skill is ask more questions and in particular, ask deep questions. And then the third skill is to understand that listening has to be an active process, that we have to prove to people that we're listening to them. There's this kind of myth that listening is about closing your mouth and opening your ears. And that's a good first step. We should actually give the other person a chance to speak. But what we do next is really important. Are we asking them follow-up questions? Are we proving that we're paying attention? Are we really trying to process what they're saying? Or are we just waiting our own turn to speak? Because if they believe that we're just waiting our own turn to speak, they're not going to listen to us anymore than we're listening to them. ([Time 0:24:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/034689c6-8edc-4cdf-a3f4-7e5177320acd)) - **Ask More Questions And Favor Deep Questions** - Ask many more questions and include deep questions about values, beliefs, or origin stories. - Replace surface queries (what hospital?) with deep ones (what made you go to medical school?) to invite identity and meaning. Transcript: Charles Duhigg As I mentioned, super communicators ask many more questions than the average person. And some of those questions are sort of throwaway questions. So like, oh, what'd you think about that movie? Or, oh, did you like that restaurant last night? They're basically just invitations into the conversation. Like, I want you to participate in the conversation. But super communicators also ask a fair number of what are known within psychology as deep questions. And we were talking about this with Nick Epley. A deep question is something that asks me about my values, my beliefs, or my experiences. And that can sound kind of intimidating, but it's as simple as if you meet someone who's a doctor, instead of saying, oh, what hospital do you work at? You could ask them, oh, what made you decide to go to medical school? That second question, it invites that person to tell you who they are. They might talk about the fact that they saw their dad get sick, or they might talk about the fact that they love being a healer. They love being able to help people. So they're telling me about their experiences and their values. And that's going to be a much more real conversation. We're going to feel more connected to each other. We're going to achieve that neural entrainment I mentioned. So that's the second skill is ask more questions and in particular, ask deep questions. ([Time 0:24:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/52da1eed-eb1f-4eb5-8824-5bb14fba765a)) - **NASA Used A Spill And Laughter To Screen Emotional Intelligence** - NASA psychiatrist Terry McGuire tested candidates by deliberately spilling papers then laughing boisterously to watch their reaction. - Candidates who matched his laugh showed emotional matching and succeeded in team settings. Transcript: Charles Duhigg And they said to him, try and figure out who has emotional intelligence. What's the right interview question to ask? And he worked on this for like nine months. And then one night he's listening to old recordings of the interviews he had done with candidates. He knew which of them had gone on to get hired and become great leaders inside NASA and which of them had washed out because they couldn't get along with anyone. And as he's listening, he realizes that the people who went on to be great leaders, they laugh differently in the interview than everyone else. And so he starts doing this new thing with interviews. This is what he does. He'll ask the candidate to come in and have a seat. He'll walk into the room with a big stack of papers in his hands. And he would trip as if on accident and spill the papers everywhere. And then he would do this weird thing. He would laugh in this big boisterous laugh. He'd go, ha, ha, ha, ha, I cannot believe I did that. I am such a klutz. And then he would pay attention to how the candidate reacted. Because everyone reacted in one of two ways. Some people were like, that's really silly. Let me give you a hand with that. And some people matched his big boisterous laugh and they went, that's really silly. Let me give you a hand with that. And it's the people who matched him. We're showing him, look, I understand what you're feeling, right? The ones who were quiet and wanted to put it under the rug. They were like, Oh, you look, you, you seem embarrassed right now. I'm going to pretend like this didn't happen. But the ones with emotional intelligence are the ones who say, look, you seem embarrassed right now. I'm going to show you it's okay to be embarrassed. I'm going to make this big boisterous laugh the same way you do, because I'm going to show you that I'm in the canoe with you. ([Time 0:28:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dc649019-39c7-4629-82b8-d768e886721c)) - **Prepare One Thing To Be Heard And One Question** - Prepare briefly: jot one thing you want heard and one question to ask, then prefacing with meta-communication improves awkward or tense talks. - Even a 10-second index-card list gives you fallback topics and boosts confidence. Transcript: Charles Duhigg Yeah, no, absolutely. The more you prepare for a conversation, the better that conversation is going to go. And the fact that you have prepared, the fact that you read the book, it makes me feel heard and listened to and seen. It makes me want to be a good conversation partner. So that is definitely really important. The question is, what kind of preparation matters for what kinds of conversations? Because this is a podcast interview, right? We're talking about my book. And so having preparation around knowing the ideas in the book and what might be interesting questions, that's useful. But if you and I saw each other just on the street, we wouldn't necessarily have to prepare quite as much just to say, hey, how you doing? You want to get a cup of coffee? But there are kinds of preparations we can do that matter, particularly for important conversations, right? Particularly for conversations when we're talking about something that matters to us a lot or something that might be tense to talk about. There was this really interesting study done by a researcher who's now at Dartmouth, who she found friends where one person in the friendship was black and one person in the friendship Was white. And she asked them, do you guys ever talk about race? And inevitably, the answer was basically no, right? We don't talk about race, even though we obviously have different racial experiences, we don't really talk about it. And so she said, look, what I'd like you to do is I'd like you to have a conversation about race. But for some of you, what I'm going to ask you to do is before you have that conversation, just write down really quickly, one thing that you hope your friend hears from you and one question You want to ask. And then when you start the conversation, start it this way. Start it by saying, look, I know we're going to talk about race. I know this can be an awkward topic. And so like this might be a little bit of an awkward conversation. And that's okay. And I want you to know if I say the wrong thing, I hope you'll forgive me because sometimes my lips move faster than my brain. And if you say the wrong thing, I will definitely forgive you. And what she found is that the people who did this, who just jotted something down ahead of time and who prefaced the conversation by engaging in what's known as meta communication, Talking about the conversation itself, they had much, much better dialogues with each other. They felt much more comfortable with each other. And so sometimes preparation is just a matter of taking just a couple of seconds and of saying, what do I want to accomplish here? There's actually a really interesting experiment out of Harvard Business School where they told a bunch of students, you're about to have a conversation with a stranger. And they said, before you do, write down three things you want to ask or tell this person on an index card and then stick it in your pocket. And so people did that. It took 10 seconds for them to write those down. Then they went and they had their conversation with a stranger and they asked, did those three topics ever come up? And people said, look, that conversation went a lot better than I thought it was going to go. And you know, no, the things that I wrote down, they never actually came up, but I just felt so much more comfortable because I knew I had them in my back pocket. Like I knew I had something to fall back on. So that's like 10 seconds of preparation that makes the conversation better. And all of us can do that. ([Time 0:31:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b3ce92a8-cd6c-42f5-8264-c1e667b492eb)) - **Listen For Identity Declarations And Acknowledge Them** - Identities always influence conversation; acknowledging them signals respect and curiosity. - When someone reveals identity (e.g., being deaf), note it and invite them to teach you what that perspective reveals. Transcript: Charles Duhigg And then finally, the last rule is basically, listen to see if identities are playing a role in this discussion. So for instance, earlier in this conversation, you mentioned, after I asked you who you would telephone, and you mentioned that you're deaf. And like, obviously, that's an identity that's important to you. It's an identity that shapes how you behave every day. It's an identity that gives you unique perspectives on the world that people around you don't have. It gives you unique experiences. And so one of the things that's important is when someone shares with us what their identity is, whether that's as profound as saying, as a white man, this is how I live in America, to someone Who just says, as someone who likes to read science fiction, when we announce our identities, what we're really looking for from the other person is just acknowledgement that we've Heard it. To say, oh, it's really interesting, guy, that you've gone through this experience that I haven't, and I'm sure that you have learned something incredibly important from it that I Want to know about, that I want to learn about. ([Time 0:36:46](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ec9498c2-e9c2-493e-8633-a0c111aa0ede))