Why Is My Phone Battery So Small? - DTNS WEEKEND  ## Metadata - Author: [[Daily Tech News Show]] - Full Title: Why Is My Phone Battery So Small? - DTNS WEEKEND - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/5f65838b-8179-4ebe-960d-8d5543207bdb ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **International Rules Shape Battery Limits** - International shipping rules (IMO, IATA) drive many battery restrictions on phones and laptops. - These rules define lithium-ion cells as hazardous materials and shape design and transport choices. Transcript: James Thatcher Yeah, I work in international logistics. I've been doing this for well over 20 years. So what I have found is basically a lot of it comes back to the International Maritime Organization dangerous goods requirements, as well as the IACO, which is the International Association, I'm sorry, IATA, International Air Transport Association and their IACO codes, which specifically talk about dangerous goods. Tom Merritt So these are international, though. Yes. Yes. James Thatcher Well, there's also U.S. Requirements that are monitored by the Department of Transportation. But, you know, I wanted to lead with international because we have an international audience, Tom. Of course. But yeah, no, the predominant force behind the U.S. Rules and regulations is international. So anytime you travel or transport goods between two countries, you have to deal with various different IMO or IATO – I'm sorry, IATA requirements, as well as then if it's coming by rail, There's the IRB and there's a bunch of other things. Tom Merritt And these are all things to make sure that there's safety and efficiency. James Thatcher This all falls back under hazardous materials, which lithium-ion batteries are definitely considered a hazardous material. ([Time 0:02:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dbed6f40-dd8f-415e-ade1-dc2c1e661514)) - **Samsung Note Fires As A Cautionary Example** - James and Tom referenced the Samsung Note fires as a concrete example of thermal runaway consequences. - That incident influenced regulations and industry caution around lithium-ion cells. Transcript: Tom Merritt Technical target for it. It essentially killed the Note. Yeah. James Thatcher Well, we thought it killed the Note, but it didn't really. Tom Merritt Well, we don't have the Note anymore. James Thatcher Well, yeah. Tom Merritt It may have not killed it immediately, but yeah, it definitely damaged the Samsung Note brand a little bit with those fires. That was like 2016, you know, so it's been a minute. But yeah, lithium-ion batteries are volatile. Under rare but existent circumstances, they can catch fire. So you don't want that in your plane. You don't want that in your boat. ([Time 0:04:00](https://share.snipd.com/snip/767a08c4-1e92-4b0e-b9f1-e410b1f0f4de)) - **Single-Cell Cap Limits Phone Battery Size** - A single lithium-ion cell is capped around 20 kWh for air and ocean transport, roughly 5,100 mAh for phone-sized cells. - Larger single cells increase thermal-runaway risk and regulatory burdens, so manufacturers avoid them. Transcript: James Thatcher You have to keep your single cell of a phone or any lithium ion device that's integrated into a device. So cell phones, iPads, tablets, computers, et cetera. They have to stay, if it's a single cell, that each single cell has to stay under 20 kilowatt hours, which takes you when you do the math to roughly 5,100 milliamp hours, give or take. Tom Merritt And a single cell is not always what is in a phone, but usually when you're talking about phones, you only have one cell. Correct. James Thatcher Usually within phones, you have one cell. Now, OnePlus, I believe, has a dual cell that they work with. All your laptops have dual cells. Several tablets are now going into dual cells, if not triple cells, because of the rising use of them. But a lot of that then also gets into when you have a cell. Again, I'm not an engineer. I'm sure an engineer can point this out to us. But when you have a cell, you have to compartmentalize it in a certain way so that it is restricted from other cells. Um, the, the big issue then becomes thermal run-on like we saw with the Samsung note, um, where the heat builds up and it basically creates a fire and that fire can immediately spread To the other cells quickly. It's not like a regular fire as well. If you're in a cargo aircraft, I'm not even going to talk about passenger aircraft because that gets interesting. But if you're on a cargo aircraft and you're going to – you're in the middle of a flight and there might be a fire, the first thing you do is, to my understanding, is you'll trip a fire suppression System. And part of that fire suppression system will then also – you will basically depressurize the cabin. So you'll drop it down so there's no oxygen. It's an oxygen, less rich environment. And by doing that, that helps quench a fire down because you need three things for a fire. You need fuel, you need heat, and you need oxygen. Well, in a lithium ion, those items, oxygen deprivation is not really a problem. It can work on very little oxygen and still burn very, very warm. Tom Merritt So the idea then is that if you keep it to 5,100 milliamp hours or I can't remember, it's 20.5 kilowatt. It's 20 kilowatt hours. James Thatcher 20 kilowatt hours. Tom Merritt Then you are reducing the intensity of a fire and making it easier to put out. Is that the theory? James Thatcher Well, the theory is that it is less likely that you will have a thermal run-on based upon that. So you're reducing the incidences by doing it. Correct. Because as the cell size is shrunk, there's less likelihood of a rupture. ([Time 0:04:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f71d6f81-963a-4172-97f4-409d22eb9c39)) - **Transport Mode Determines Cell Size Allowed** - The 20 kWh single-cell limit applies specifically to air and ocean cargo movements. - Ground-only shipment allows much larger single cells under different (and often costly) rules. Transcript: James Thatcher So here's the interesting thing. Those restrictions specifically at the 20 kilowatt hour are specifically for air and ocean cargo. If you were going to, let's say, let's say we're back in the old days and we're at RIM up in Canada and we're making BlackBerrys. And for whatever reason, they're making BlackBerrys in Canada. And you're going to ship a bunch of BlackBerrys down to the U.S. You can use up to 60 kilowatt hours in a cell and bring it down into the U.S. Without issue as long as it's by truck or by rail. Now, there's certain placards you have to put on it, et cetera, et cetera. But it's doable. It's doable. ([Time 0:08:27](https://share.snipd.com/snip/240f7a39-bced-4a31-b82a-d27f55026d04)) - **Don’t Ship Huge Single Cells Globally** - Avoid designing a worldwide phone with a single huge cell because class nine hazmat handling makes shipping prohibitively expensive. - Consider multi-cell designs or local manufacturing to sidestep air/ocean limits. Transcript: James Thatcher I can tell you from my research, there are other ways you can still do this, but they become quite costly because it becomes what's called a class nine hazmat, which is the highest class You can. So if you wanted to build a phone and you wanted to have a single cell and you wanted to put 70 kilowatt hours in it for whatever reason, you can do it, but it will move it class nine cargo, Which is the most expensive, most required, um, paperwork and everything else and costly method of movement. ([Time 0:10:32](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a04fd500-ec61-4e2c-aadb-c014f43ace4d)) - **Paperwork Makes High-Capacity Cells Impractical** - Each phone must include detailed Dangerous Materials Guide paperwork if it exceeds common limits, making consumer use and travel impractical. - That paperwork requirement effectively prevents high-capacity single-cell phones from being viable consumer products. Transcript: James Thatcher Picture this. You're in the garage, hands covered in grease, just finished up tuning your engine with a part you found on eBay. Tom Merritt And you realize, you know what? I could also use new brakes. So where do you go next? Back to eBay. You can find anything there. It's unreal. Wipers, headlights, even cold air intakes. It's all there. And you've got eBay guaranteed fit. You order a part, and if it doesn't fit, send it back. Simple as that. Look, DIY fixes can be major. Doesn't matter if it's just maintenance or a major mod. You got it, especially when things are guaranteed to fit. So when you dive into your next car project, start with eBay. All the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time. EBay. Things people love. As a parent, you wear many hats. At dinner, you're the chef. When your kids play, you're the ref. And let's face it, you're basically a full-time chauffeur. Fortunately, when it's time to wear your teacher hat, Abeka makes things easy. Our proven, flexible homeschool curriculum is designed to let your kids retain and build on the knowledge they acquire, ([Time 0:11:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d7efa1cb-eb80-4264-a7bf-5bf8531e8330)) - **Multi-Cell Designs Are The Practical Path** - Manufacturers can use multiple smaller cells to achieve higher total capacity while staying within single-cell limits. - Multi-cell designs require engineering and cost trade-offs but avoid major transport restrictions. Transcript: James Thatcher 5,100 milliamp hours. But the other thing, you know, I didn't say what DMG was. I just said the initial, sorry. DMG is Dangerous Materials Guide. So I need to specify what that means in case people are like, yeah, going to write in. But the other side of that is also, you know, there's nothing that stops a company from having multi-cells. And, you know, I have seen, I had a OnePlus for several years and had multi-cells and it, it, it works fine. It's programmed to handle it. Now, does that programming take up a space on the hard drive? Is there a cost for that? Does it increase the weight of the phone, et cetera, et cetera? Yes. So these are just kind of things that, that manufacturers have to take into account. Not only that, but when you go above that 20 kilowatt hour per single cell, even if we wanted to do that, you have to do drop tests. You have to do all these other things that show certification that even if I, if I take my phone here and I drop it, it's not going to start a thermal run-on or cause an impact of some type. ([Time 0:17:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d86a1617-bd86-4f18-bbd1-01f017f6178c)) - **Design For Current Safety Rules** - Expect battery transport rules to remain strict because the underlying fire hazard persists regardless of administration. - Plan product design and supply chains around current safety standards rather than hoping rules will relax. Transcript: James Thatcher The safety hazard is way too high. Regardless of administration, it doesn't matter. Those will not change. If it were to happen, there'd be problems. Tom Merritt Building on what you're telling me, the possibility for higher capacity batteries are multiple cells, which companies can get better and more innovative at doing and do more things Like OnePlus and figure out how to keep the cost down. So there's a possibility there. The other would be new kinds of batteries, something that doesn't use a material that is as regulated. We've had promises of those over and over and over for decades. So one of these days, one will hit, but we don't know that that's coming anytime soon. Or making it locally and getting under whatever your regional amount is, which already has happening in China and India and potentially could happen elsewhere as well. James Thatcher But again, remember that if you were to do that at that point under a single cell, you wouldn't be able to go on an aircraft. So that hampers a lot of people who can't afford it from wanting to buy it because I don't know anybody who has a cell phone who doesn't want to get on a plane. ([Time 0:18:33](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b8b610a4-b655-445a-840a-c9090949f74b)) - **Use External Multi-Cell Power Bricks** - If you need extra runtime, carry external multi-cell power bricks that comply with transport rules. - Those portable batteries replicate multi-cell safety and avoid single-cell regulatory problems. Transcript: James Thatcher Yeah. Because they have to they have to adhere to the IATA rules. And again, you know, the other thing is. You know, portable batteries, you know, I mean, this is, this is a 10,000, uh, milli, I'm sorry, this is a 50,000 milliamp hour battery. It's got multiple cells within it. You know, I mean, there's nothing wrong with just carrying an extra brick around if you need one. ([Time 0:20:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/fc59d37f-b41e-4a23-8570-3f7eaf196c83))