Why Tiny Experiments Might Be the Key to Sustainable Success  ## Metadata - Author: [[The Duct Tape Marketing Podcast]] - Full Title: Why Tiny Experiments Might Be the Key to Sustainable Success - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/8e521491-255b-45bf-b3a7-601f97854aba ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Health Scare Changed Her Focus** - Anne-Laure experienced a severe health scare with a blood clot requiring surgery. - Her focus on work over health triggered her to reconsider life's priorities. Transcript: John Jantsch Well, in fact, you write about a health scare that maybe kind of brought about some of this realization. Do you talk about that as part of a turning point? Anne-Laure Le Cunff Absolutely. For a lot of us, we require some form of trigger to start asking this question, to start asking again, is that really what I want out of life? And in my case, that trigger came in the form of a blood clot in my arm, where I basically, you know, I basically started questioning, you know, when you have a health scare that is so bad, Can I go back to this? Because I'm like, and for me, that trigger came in the form of a blood clot. So what happened is that one morning I was brushing my teeth, ready to go to work. And I noticed that my arm had turned purple. And so I went to the Google infirmary because they have that on campus. And they sent me to the hospital. They said, you need to go and see a doctor straight away. And the doctors told me, we need to perform surgery as quickly as possible. There's a blood clot that is threatening to travel to your lungs. And so when can we do the surgery? And this is when my response was, instead of saying yes, as soon as possible, I said, let me check my calendar. And the reason why I did that was because I wanted to make sure that I would schedule the surgery at a time that would not disrupt any of the product launches and projects that I was working On. And this is when I started questioning my sense of prior relief in life. ([Time 0:03:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e6f9c52e-d11e-4135-8e50-78606759a177)) - **Rethink Goals in Uncertainty** - Goal-setting is often harmful when applied rigidly in uncertain situations. - Tiny experiments foster growth by embracing curiosity and uncertainty instead of fixed outcomes. Transcript: John Jantsch Talk about a goal-obsessed world. I mean, it's in the subtitle. I mean, I'm assuming you're not anti-goal. It's really just the way that people have been taught to use them. Yeah, absolutely. Anne-Laure Le Cunff Goals can be, and the way we normally use them can actually be very helpful when you know exactly where you're going. So they give you a destination and then you have a clear plan, a clear vision, and then you just need to work hard and you'll get there eventually. The problem is we apply this linear definition of success to almost everything, even when there is high uncertainty. And so what I encourage people to do is to stop using goals for absolutely everything. But whenever they are in a situation where they're facing a challenge, where the outcomes are unclear, where the parameters are uncertain, to instead design tiny experiments. ([Time 0:04:35](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a9a3f2cd-6e80-48db-9b8a-631726339a7f)) - **Goal Sharing Can Backfire** - Publicly announcing health goals can decrease the likelihood of achieving them. - Sharing goals provides a dopamine hit that may reduce the motivation to follow through. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff I'm going to reach that weight. I'm going to run this marathon. So instead, what's really important is to design a process where you keep on showing up and you build routines and habits and rituals around those aspirations that you have around your Health instead of having that linear goal, which you announce to people. ([Time 0:06:04](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d2185fed-b596-4c94-8e30-a3a36149e841)) - **Accountability Groups Aid Process** - Use accountability groups to focus on process habits, not just announcing big goals. - Consistent group activities support motivation and increase chances of goal completion. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff And now look at the number of people who actually maintain those resolutions and actually complete those goals. And we know that this is a very, very low number. So this is just a really good example. But in general, the research shows that there is a big difference between having an accountability group where you say, for example, we are going to meet every week to run together, Or we're going to meet every week to write together, versus announcing the goal of I'm going to run a marathon, or I'm going to write a book. So one of them is process oriented, where you have this process that you do with other people and you have this motivation and accountability as part of a group. The other one, again, just gives you that dopamine hit of feeling proud that you're going to do the thing and then you don't do the thing. ([Time 0:06:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e3231bfe-a755-48fb-b7a9-53e3ffcf7d3a)) - **Define Tiny Experiments** - Tiny experiments focus on curiosity-driven hypotheses, not fixed binary success/failure. - Measuring success by what you learn removes fear of failure and motivates exploration. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff A tiny experiment is basically following a protocol for personal experimentation. The big difference between a goal and an experiment is that when you pursue a goal, you have a very binary definition of success. You say, this is what I want to achieve. And either I get there and this is success or I don't. And this is failure. When you conduct a tiny experiment, you're a bit more like a scientist. Then you start not from the outcome, but from more of a hypothesis, a research question, something that you're curious about. And that means that whatever the outcome, as ([Time 0:07:48](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e4fb68fd-e0cd-45dd-a444-5f70a8f4089e)) - **Turn Goals Into Experiments** - Frame actions as tiny experiments with defined duration and clear actions, like daily walks or journaling. - This approach encourages trying new habits temporarily without lifelong pressure. Transcript: John Jantsch Can you give me, what would be an example of a tiny experiment that would maybe put me on that journey? Yeah, absolutely. Anne-Laure Le Cunff So linear goal, I want to lose 10 pounds. Tiny experiment could be, I will milk fat every Sunday for six weeks or I will take a daily walk for two months or I will and a tiny experiment is always in this format I will action for duration Which is also the big difference with the habit because the habit doesn't have the duration you commit to it for the rest of your life whereas with an experiment you say it's just an experiment I'm going to do it for this duration and I'm going to see if it works or not for me. ([Time 0:08:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b28d3243-8742-4e5f-8688-ed41e45e988e)) - **Reflect on Your Experiments** - Always pair tiny experiments with self-reflection to question your assumptions and learn from outcomes. - Embrace curiosity about what works for you and accept potential failure as part of learning. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff That's why it's very important to always pair experimentation with self-reflection it's very important to question the why behind your experiment is that because you're copy pasting Something from other people is that because you've just been doing this thing in this way forever you're not even questioning that assumption ideally your tiny experiment should Be around something that you want to do a little bit differently, something that you're curious about, and something that might fail. That's very important. You want to start from this place of, you know what, I don't know if this is going to work out, but I'm going to find out. And if I don't get the outcome I expected, that's okay. ([Time 0:09:42](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c30dd9b4-1d6b-4d51-811b-af4daeb73bd0)) - **Apply Tiny Experiments in Business** - Use the PACT framework to run tiny experiments in business by committing to actions for fixed durations. - Share learnings openly in teams to spread knowledge and avoid repeated failures. Transcript: John Jantsch What PACT is. Does the PACT framework really apply? Do you see it applying to business situations as well? Anne-Laure Le Cunff A hundred percent. I used to work in marketing at Google. And so obviously I have lots of ideas about how that could work specifically even for marketing. Anything that you're curious about, even in a professional environment, and that you want to try without the pressure of achieving a specific outcome can be turned into a tiny experiment. And so you could say for your social media, I will post this kind of format for six weeks every day. And I will, very important, I will withhold judgment until I'm done. That's the very important part too. I'm just collecting data. I'm giving it a try. You could say, I will write a weekly newsletter for the next six weeks. You could say, I will film a very short video reel every week for the next two months. Or that could be also internal experiments. If you work with a team and you want to encourage shared learning and collective curiosity, I will give a short presentation about a new AI tool I discovered every two weeks for the next Quarter. So always, I will action for duration and always withholding judgment. And then the little bonus, completely optional, but I highly recommend doing it. The bonus thing that you can do at the end is learning in public. So when you run tiny experiments as part of the business, instead of keeping for yourself what you learned, take a moment, whether that's a quick email to your team or as part of your team Meeting, to just share, hey, this is what I experimented with the past four or six weeks. And these are the results. And sometimes you will have successful results. But also, there's a lot of value in saying, hey, everyone, don't try this. I did it. It doesn't work. And now everybody knows. ([Time 0:11:23](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a6faccb7-e6b1-43b9-9d0d-29000bc63a1c)) - **Experimentation Frees from Fear** - Experimentation decouples personal worth from outcomes by focusing on learning, not success or failure. - This mindset reduces fear and encourages curiosity in personal and professional growth. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff That's the great thing about an experimental mindset is that it completely decouples your exploration of what might work or not work from a sense of success or failure. So if you look at the way scientists relate to uncertainty, whenever they don't understand something or when things don't go as expected, they don't say like, oh, shame, I'm such a failure. I'm such a bad scientist. Why didn't things work out the way I thought they would? No, instead, they look at what happened, again, without self-blame, without self-judgment, and they wonder, huh, what happened here? What can we learn from this? And this is really what's amazing about learning from that experimental mindset that scientists have, is that you can almost create a little bit more distance between those outcomes, Whatever they are, and your sense of self-worth. And this is what I've seen with all of the students I worked with. It really creates this distance and they can look at the data and make decisions without blaming themselves for whatever outcome they had. ([Time 0:13:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/467c340e-dbf4-4950-9d99-000e8b80bb42)) - **Use Curiosity-Driven Intelligence** - Approach challenges with curiosity-driven intelligence by investigating what is happening instead of avoiding discomfort. - Curiosity helps navigate both external problems and difficult internal emotions. Transcript: John Jantsch Play? Anne-Laure Le Cunff Yes, it's basically what you just described. I love that this is what you're doing. But it is really the idea that almost any challenge can be better navigated when it's approached from a place of curiosity. What does that look like? And I apply curiosity-driven intelligence not only to external challenges, but also to internal challenges, emotions, mental health, any kind of thoughts that you might have that Might get in the way of you making better decisions. And so whenever you experience something difficult, instead of having the more traditional approach, which is how do we get rid of this thing that is uncomfortable? ([Time 0:15:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a0f3f32b-762e-41c4-a4d6-6e5c281e0912)) - **Embrace Unexpected Outcomes** - Design all explorations as experiments to accept unexpected outcomes as valuable learning. - Share surprises with others to celebrate new discoveries and keep motivation high. Transcript: John Jantsch We thought it was going. And we see that as a failure rather than a new path. Anne-Laure Le Cunff I think just designing all of those kinds of explorations as an experiment in the first place makes it a lot easier than trying to reach for fit an experimental mindset on a linear goal. So if from the get-go you're saying this is an experiment, I'm kind of expecting to get this outcome, but also I'm very open to the possibility that I might get something completely different. This is what is going to help you really cultivate this acceptance of whatever outcome that you get. And something that can help is to experiment with other people, because there is some excitement to sharing with someone else when something was happened that was very different from What you expected. You maybe designed your social media post in a certain way expecting to get this, but you got something completely different. And so if you're designing the experiment and collecting your data with someone else, they can actually be part of the fun. You can even say, okay, what's one unexpected thing that happened this week that you didn't see coming? John Jantsch That actually needs to become ingrained as part of the process, doesn't it? ([Time 0:16:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e8f48d52-18db-428b-81d8-1bed48d4bb0c)) - **Future Workplace Embraces Experiments** - Anne-Laure envisions workplaces where sharing experiments and failures to accelerate collective learning is normal. - This cultural shift fosters curiosity and innovation over blame and judgment. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff Was your latest experiment and what did you learn and what was your latest failure? John Jantsch So I want to bring AI into the conversation because, you know, we have to, right? And, you know, one of the things that I've done is I've tried to use it to challenge me, right? My thinking is like this. And so I'm actually trying to push it to say, what would be other opportunities? What would be other ways to look at this? What if we didn't have this, you know, or this was a constraint? How could we? So how do you see AI actually helping us design maybe better tiny experiments? Anne-Laure Le Cunff That kind of connects back to what we ([Time 0:18:21](https://share.snipd.com/snip/deb688e3-17b4-4193-8694-25d645b2046a)) - **Leverage AI for Experimentation** - Use AI as a thinking companion to challenge assumptions and generate research questions. - Its constant availability supports better experiment design and reflection. Transcript: Anne-Laure Le Cunff That kind of connects back to what we were just talking about in the sense that I really see AI as a thinking companion. Scientists are mostly working as part of a research team where they have access to other smart people who can actually challenge their own thinking, tell them when they have blank spots, And ask them questions about the way they've been collecting their data and analyzing it. And so AI is giving you 24-hour access to that kind of brain that is going to do all of these things for you. And so it would be a shame not to use it. ([Time 0:18:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1777978a-2215-40ac-bb6f-503f6146b037)) - **Tiny Experiments Shaped Career** - Anne-Laure started her newsletter as a tiny experiment that turned into a book and career. - Tiny experiments helped her decide not to pursue YouTube after trying it briefly. Transcript: John Jantsch Last question. Do you have any stories, personal stories, examples where tiny experiments kind of led to long-term change in your life? Anne-Laure Le Cunff Well, I mean, my entire current life. The whole thing. The whole thing the whole thing i i started my nest labs newsletter as an experiment and it then turned into a book and this is why we're having this conversation today i also use experiments For a lot of areas in my personal life this is how i started meditating i thought i was really bad at it but then i said i'm just going to do a tiny experiment and turns out i'm not great at it But i'm not terrible either. And this is also how I have let go of potential paths that were not for me. So YouTube, for example, is something that a lot of people around me are doing. And I wondered for a very long time, do I need to do YouTube? And so I conducted a tiny experiment. And it turns out, I don't like recording videos of myself. And so now I know and I'm not wasting all of that time and energy thinking about how can I launch a YouTube channel and all of that. ([Time 0:19:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e27e4a52-2431-4b8d-9536-b55caf838eaa))