WordCamp Asia, Sponsorships, and Hard Yakka  ## Metadata - Author: [[Crossword]] - Full Title: WordCamp Asia, Sponsorships, and Hard Yakka - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/d643deee-444c-43d6-a355-eb7342e9091d ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **WordPress Site Cleanup** - Jonathan helped a friend update his WordPress site, focusing on updating plugins and the contact form. - He found trapped leads and improved the site's functionality, feeling good about the cleanup. Transcript: Jonathan So Luke, last week I talked about my friend who was going to come over and we were going to work on his WordPress site. Well, that happened. And how do you think it went? Like me getting into a WordPress install that I haven't touched for a couple of years. Luke Knowing you, Jonathan, it went swimmingly and you have nothing but good news to report. Jonathan I had a good time actually. But I'm a little bit worried about the things that I found joy in, which was like updating out of date plugins. There's a lot of them. Luke Oh yeah. Well, no, that's, I find that joyful too. I think, I think people like you and me get a kick out of, I don't know, cleaning things up and tidying up. It's a different matter when you're trying to set up a site from scratch. That's fair. And when you have a vision in your head for how you want it to be, then that's when things can get sometimes a bit more frustrating. Jonathan Well, what was perhaps the more concerning part to that experience was the degree to which I just clicked the buttons, a little bit of the YOLO. Like, yeah, update, sure. Three version, three point releases, let's go for it. It's going to be fine. Partly because I had backups and partly because probably subconsciously I was confident that I could fix whatever happened. But it felt a little bit like living on the edge clicking those updates as I went along. Luke Yeah, who needs a staging sofa, right? Did you wear your cowboy hat? It did. I did not actually wear the cowboy hat but metaphorically it was on my head do you own a cowboy i don't i'm sorry to disappoint you you have to be texan to own a cowboy hat you don't have to Jonathan Be but uh that does tend to be where the cowboy hats come in uh yeah it was it was good though because as if you recall as we were talking last time, where I was at at the time was like, am I even Going to keep him on WordPress? Is this like more hassle than it's worth? Most of the time was spent updating the contact form and improving. Cause he has a local business that like puts insulation in the houses, right? So it's a pretty, like, it's an important business. Um, it's growing and the site just needs to do a job to give information and then collect interests and have a form that works. And I was able to do some improvements. I found some leads that had gotten trapped. Uh, a kismet usually does a good job, but it was false flagging a couple of them. Luke Oh, really? Interesting. Jonathan Which was interesting. And also just showing him more about how it worked that it, that there wasn't just an email copy of each lead. There's actually an entry in the database there. And at the end of it, yeah, I felt good. The site was cleaned up, got rid of a bunch of plugins that it didn't need, updated them, and it's continuing to work nicely. Sounds ([Time 0:00:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d5b0693e-002d-4d98-82ae-32ed937b8db3)) - Here are five quotes from the podcast episode, focusing on insightful or impactful statements: > I'm a little bit worried about the things that I found joy in, which was like updating out of date plugins. There's a lot of them. > > — **Jonathan** This quote highlights a common experience among WordPress developers, the strangely satisfying task of plugin updates. > Who needs a staging server, right? > > — **Luke** This is a humorous comment that relates to the risky behavior of directly updating a live WordPress site without a staging environment. > It means hard work, hard work. I don't know where it comes from. I don't know what it means other than work. > > — **Luke** This is Luke explaining the Australian slang term "hard yakka" and the lack of deeper meaning beyond hard work. > I think that there's value for sponsorship being a first step for a business into the community. > > — **Jonathan** This quote presents a perspective on WordPress sponsorships, viewing them as a potential entry point for businesses to engage with the community. > I really do think that... a lot of people are upping their contributions out of fear. > > — **Luke** This quote offers a cynical yet potentially accurate observation about the motivations behind increased contributions to the WordPress project. Transcript: Jonathan Had a good time actually. But I'm a little bit worried about the things that I found joy in, which was like updating out of date plugins. There's a lot of them. Luke Oh yeah. Well, no, that's, I find that joyful too. I think, I think people like you and me get a kick out of, I don't know, cleaning things up and tidying up. It's a different matter when you're trying to set up a site from scratch. That's fair. And when you have a vision in your head for how you want it to be, then that's when things can get sometimes a bit more frustrating. Jonathan Well, what was perhaps the more concerning part to that experience was the degree to which I just clicked the buttons, a little bit of the YOLO. Like, yeah, update, sure. Three version, three point releases, let's go for it. It's going to be fine. Partly because I had backups and partly because probably subconsciously I was confident that I could fix whatever happened. But it felt a little bit like living on the edge clicking those updates as I went along. Luke Yeah, who needs a staging sofa, right? Did you wear your cowboy hat? It did. I did not actually wear the cowboy hat but metaphorically it was on my head do you own a cowboy i don't i'm sorry to disappoint you you have to be texan to own a cowboy hat you don't have to Jonathan Be but uh that does tend to be where the cowboy hats come in uh yeah it was it was good though because as if you recall as we were talking last time, where I was at at the time was like, am I even Going to keep him on WordPress? Is this like more hassle than it's worth? Most of the time was spent updating the contact form and improving. Cause he has a local business that like puts insulation in the houses, right? So it's a pretty, like, it's an important business. Um, it's growing and the site just needs to do a job to give information and then collect interests and have a form that works. And I was able to do some improvements. I found some leads that had gotten trapped. Uh, a kismet usually does a good job, but it was false flagging a couple of them. Luke Oh, really? Interesting. Jonathan Which was interesting. And also just showing him more about how it worked that it, that there wasn't just an email copy of each lead. There's actually an entry in the database there. And at the end of it, yeah, I felt good. The site was cleaned up, got rid of a bunch of plugins that it didn't need, updated them, and it's continuing to work nicely. Sounds fantastic. Luke A friend of mine has a business that basically it's called Yakka, right? Y-A Have you heard of this slang, Australian slang before? I haven't. Enlighten me, please. We say, I've just got to put in a bit of hard yakka. It means hard work, hard work. I don't know where it comes from. I don't know what it means other than work. And so this, this website, what he's done is genius. He's just set up a WordPress site for tradies, trades people. What would you say in American words? Jonathan I actually know the word, but I have tradies stuck in my head now. So I, it's not coming to me. Um, like trades people, I don't know. It's, it's, it's escaping me, but these are people who do like plumbers, electricians. Luke Yeah, chippies, sparkies, that sort of thing. Carry on. So basically it is WordPress under the hood, but he's taken WordPress out of it for the customer. So they sign up, they see a form where they can put in all of their site details and they put their email address in to receive inquiries. And he just spins up a theme and makes a few color adjustments automatically. It's all happening. He doesn't manually do any of this. When you say automatically, is that pun intended? Via like jetpack or something else? Jonathan No. Okay. Luke No no pun intended. And basically, it's kind of like a Wix website targeted at tradies, but it's built using WordPress under the hood. Jonathan Nice. Okay. Luke Something like that would be good for your mate. Yeah. Jonathan Send me a link afterwards. I'd love to check it out uh i'm curious luke what have you heard if anything about word camp asia and what's been uh what's been going on there uh there's a part of me that is a bit upset that Luke I didn't go this year and so has been avoiding news that's fair there's a part of me uh i'll be i'll be honest with you jonathan i i think it was two days ago i just the thought occurred to me Oh word camp asia i'll just go and check reddit.com r slash wp drama and you know see if anything happened and nothing i nothing really in particular stood out to me there. So I suppose that's a good thing. Sure. Jonathan You probably would have enjoyed it. A lot of great folks made it out. I've only heard good things, that it was well organized. There was a lot of, but mostly I'm hearing from people who are just happy to be connecting with, with others again. Apparently there were sponsors got to speak this time, like during the lunch portion that I'm aware of. This hasn't, this hasn't happened before where during the lunch portion, they were given small slots and they could talk about whatever they wanted to. I'm sure that there were rules and guidelines, but from what I heard, uh, it was like, it's a new thing. Luke Um, that that's a great idea like so i'm just reacting i didn't know this i'm reacting directly but but my first reaction is that it's a great idea we should enhance the sponsorship package Yeah and because i am in favor of limiting sponsors uh to people who have active buy for the future contributions sure right people who are active contributors. And if you're not an active contributor, if you don't pass a certain threshold, which should be clearly well-documented and well-defined, then you should not be allowed to sponsor A WordCamp. I think that's a completely reasonable take, maybe one that Matt should have taken in the first place. I don't think, I'm not inclined to agree with that. Jonathan But what I do like about what you're suggesting is if the intention is that WordCamp sponsorship is a privilege or a reward, if you will, for contribution, then we really should lean More on the, let's not let the only reward be that we'll take your money. Yes. And give them more benefits, right? So in that sense, I like it. What I've seen separately from this is I think that there's value for sponsorship being a first step for a business into the community. Luke You've said that before. I knew you were going to say that. There's surely better ways. I mean, yes, as somebody who wants to get more involved in the community, they can just throw money at the problem and go, oh, look, we'll just sponsor. That way we're getting more involved in the community. But I think it's equally, if not more effective, to look for somebody who is looking for a sponsored ([Time 0:00:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b9800ffa-125b-4519-9516-ad71c5060389)) - **Yakka Website Builder** - Luke's friend created a WordPress-based website builder for tradespeople, simplifying site creation. - It offers automated theme and color adjustments, resembling Wix but using WordPress underneath. Transcript: Luke Fantastic. A friend of mine has a business that basically it's called Yakka, right? Y-A Have you heard of this slang, Australian slang before? I haven't. Enlighten me, please. We say, I've just got to put in a bit of hard yakka. It means hard work, hard work. I don't know where it comes from. I don't know what it means other than work. And so this, this website, what he's done is genius. He's just set up a WordPress site for tradies, trades people. What would you say in American words? Jonathan I actually know the word, but I have tradies stuck in my head now. So I, it's not coming to me. Um, like trades people, I don't know. It's, it's, it's escaping me, but these are people who do like plumbers, electricians. Luke Yeah, chippies, sparkies, that sort of thing. Carry on. So basically it is WordPress under the hood, but he's taken WordPress out of it for the customer. So they sign up, they see a form where they can put in all of their site details and they put their email address in to receive inquiries. And he just spins up a theme and makes a few color adjustments automatically. It's all happening. He doesn't manually do any of this. When you say automatically, is that pun intended? Via like jetpack or something else? Jonathan No. Okay. Luke No no pun intended. And basically, it's kind of like a Wix website targeted at tradies, but it's built using WordPress under the hood. Jonathan Nice. Okay. Luke Something like that would be good for your mate. Yeah. ([Time 0:02:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/aaa60c1c-994a-47aa-8ce0-c6141bede501)) - **WordCamp Asia Drama-Free** - WordCamp Asia 2023 was seemingly free of major controversies, according to initial observations. - Luke checked Reddit for drama but found nothing noteworthy, suggesting a positive event. Transcript: Jonathan Send me a link afterwards. I'd love to check it out uh i'm curious luke what have you heard if anything about word camp asia and what's been uh what's been going on there uh there's a part of me that is a bit upset that Luke I didn't go this year and so has been avoiding news that's fair there's a part of me uh i'll be i'll be honest with you jonathan i i think it was two days ago i just the thought occurred to me Oh word camp asia i'll just go and check reddit.com r slash wp drama and you know see if anything happened and nothing i nothing really in particular stood out to me there. So I suppose that's a good thing. Sure. You ([Time 0:04:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1904a138-9ff2-4098-b9c9-7d12fc9bd0bd)) - **WordCamp Sponsors Speak** - WordCamp Asia allowed sponsors to speak during lunch, a new development with potential benefits and guidelines. - This change enhances sponsorship packages, potentially incentivizing contributions to the WordPress community. Transcript: Jonathan Probably would have enjoyed it. A lot of great folks made it out. I've only heard good things, that it was well organized. There was a lot of, but mostly I'm hearing from people who are just happy to be connecting with, with others again. Apparently there were sponsors got to speak this time, like during the lunch portion that I'm aware of. This hasn't, this hasn't happened before where during the lunch portion, they were given small slots and they could talk about whatever they wanted to. I'm sure that there were rules and guidelines, but from what I heard, uh, it was like, it's a new thing. Luke Um, that that's a great idea like so i'm just reacting i didn't know this i'm reacting directly but but my first reaction is that it's a great idea we should enhance the sponsorship package Yeah and because i am in favor of limiting sponsors uh to people who have active buy for the future contributions sure right people who are active contributors. And if you're not an active contributor, if you don't pass a certain threshold, which should be clearly well-documented and well-defined, then you should not be allowed to sponsor A WordCamp. I think that's a completely reasonable take, maybe one that Matt should have taken in the first place. I don't think, I'm not inclined to agree with that. Jonathan But what I do like about what you're suggesting is if the intention is that WordCamp sponsorship is a privilege or a reward, if you will, for contribution, then we really should lean More on the, let's not let the only reward be that we'll take your money. Yes. And give them more benefits, right? So in that sense, I like it. What I've seen separately from this is I think that there's value for sponsorship being a first step for a business into the community. ([Time 0:05:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/134e5342-4e64-44ea-90c1-aa795723635a)) - **Sponsor Contributors Directly** - Luke suggests sponsoring existing WordPress contributors instead of solely relying on WordCamp sponsorships. - This approach directly supports development while integrating businesses into the community. Transcript: Luke You've said that before. I knew you were going to say that. There's surely better ways. I mean, yes, as somebody who wants to get more involved in the community, they can just throw money at the problem and go, oh, look, we'll just sponsor. That way we're getting more involved in the community. But I think it's equally, if not more effective, to look for somebody who is looking for a sponsored contribution. It'll be cheaper for the sponsor probably. Look for somebody who is already a contributor and sponsor them to contribute more often. And that person should then be able to give them updates on what's happening in the community, introduce them to other folks in the community. And through that method, you're actually making a real impact on the code base and whatever area you're contributing to, as opposed to enabling WordCamps, I guess. Jonathan I'm biased from some of my more direct experiences. Yeah, for sure. There's people who put money into sponsorships and that's's really it there's not much thought behind it i also recall well like the first time that hostinger went to word camp they That was like their entrance into the community they've continued to sponsor each time they've also ramped up their contributions like they're doing a lot of things and this opening Luke For them was let's jump in i i get i understand what you're saying You're saying they came into contributions through WordCamps. What I'm saying though is it doesn't have to be that way. They could have had it in the opposite order. They could have started with contributions and paying people to work on WordPress and then entered into the community through WordCamps as a second. Jonathan I agree with you there. I just argue that for most people, that's just not an obvious starting point. So it perhaps isn't ideal, but that's not a, how would you know that unless you were connected to someone who could point you in that direction? ([Time 0:06:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ce15f235-10d6-49c9-ad24-57c628692215)) - **More Sponsorship Incentives** - Increase incentives for WordCamp sponsorships, regardless of whether sponsorship is considered a privilege. - Offer more rewards to those who choose to sponsor, enhancing the value proposition. Transcript: Jonathan What we can both agree on is that the more incentives that could be offered to WordCamp sponsorship, whether it's a privilege or not to get access to sponsorship, the better. Let's give more rewards to folks who do decide to do it. Luke I think also we can do a lot more to advertise people who are looking for contributions. Yeah. If you want to be a better contributor, and I think this is a failing of Five for the Future, as much effort has been put into this, there should be a website just called ftdf.org or whatever, And it should just have, here is a list of activities that you can do to contribute to WordPress. If you are an organization, here is a list of people who are looking for contribution support. If you are a contributor, these are the teams that need support at the moment the most. If you speak other languages, if this is such an important thing for the project, and it is, it should be, it's an important thing, then we should have really clear messaging, really Obvious benefits, and very clear first steps defined for anyone to be able to access. ([Time 0:08:56](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c08575fe-7513-49e8-8e25-7788895ca892)) - **Value-Driven Contributions** - Companies shouldn't contribute to WordPress solely out of altruism. - Focus on the real-world value and benefits, which vary depending on the company's nature. Transcript: Jonathan I'll just say again, too, that this is something I'm still developing, but if I'm talking to a company about contribution to WordPress, I will often make a point of saying that I don't Think that they should do it from any place of altruism. I want them to see that they benefit from contributing, that there's real world value. And that can take a number of different perspectives based on whether they're like an agency versus a hosting company versus like a product company, like the benefits can be different, But I want folks to see that we're not asking for your charity. Like there's real world value to being involved in the project and where people often get stuck if a resource like that existed it'd probably make it a lot easier if someone talks to you Or me luke they talk to tammy if someone like in the project like we can point them in the right direction and help close that gap oh you should sponsor this or you could get involved here But it's not that straightforward if you don't know who to talk to or where to look and it would be a lot it'd be nice to lower that barrier of entry yeah ([Time 0:10:13](https://share.snipd.com/snip/43c45c1c-0a54-4dc6-abe4-a1d4d423a401)) - **Automattic Lawsuit** - A class action lawsuit against Automattic, led by Ryan Keller, raises concerns about its potential impact. - The negative sentiment shift towards Automattic, now seen as a potential threat to the internet, is noteworthy. Transcript: Luke Um, man. Okay. Jonathan So speaking about Matt, um, there, one of the news items that's happened since you and I spoke last is that there's, there's movement around this class action lawsuit led by this guy Named Ryan Keller. I'm still like, I've only dipped my toes into the water of understanding the details about what's going on, but there's been some extensive coverage on Ars Technica. The repository was covering it, as did Search Engine Land. And I'm curious to see where this goes, of course. But I think there's, yeah, I don't know. And of course, Matt has not been silent about this. I was looking on some of his posts on X. And yeah, I think he seems like he's calmed down a lot of the rhetoric, but this is very much a going concern. Have you had a chance to see any of the coverage yourself? Luke Yeah, I had a bit of a look. What's interesting to me about this is, well, he's complaining. He's done a lot of complaining about, well, we don't have enough money to put into WordPress contributions because of all of these lawsuits. And it's WP Engine's fault. It's these people who, it's the fault of the people who are suing me. And so what's different and interesting about a class action suit is that it's not one person suing him. It's a whole heap of individuals. And that's hopefully got, I mean, it's got to be hard to wrap your head around. A lot of people are angry at me and are suing me all at once. Jonathan And if I understand correctly, part of the, this is an invitation for it to become a class action if it's approved, at which point a lot of people could get behind it, which is part of what Makes it serious. What stood out to me though, in the, like the Ars Technica piece, was the sub headline, automatic could harm the entire internet. That would have really surprised me as a sub headline to show up in a piece about automatic anytime in the past couple of years, at least for me. So to see that sentiment shift, like that's a, that's a big deal where automatic has gone from their, their positioning is we're working to build like a better web. And now they're being put in the same sentence as like Automatic is like a potential threat to the internet. And that's definitely concerning. You ([Time 0:12:17](https://share.snipd.com/snip/da7ee879-775d-40d4-9e4e-55cc945af7cb))