WordCamp Europe 2026 - How to Make Toast - CourtneyR.dev's 2nd Brain

WordCamp Europe 2026 - How to Make Toast ![rw-book-cover](https://readwise-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/static/images/article2.74d541386bbf.png) 🔗 **Source:** [WordCamp Europe 2026 - How to Make Toast](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [process-documentation, systems-thinking, team-scaling] > author: Stacy Carlson > source: WordCamp Europe 2026 > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g > date created: {{date:YYYY-MM-DD}} {{time:HH:mm}} > > # 🏷️ Title: How to Make Toast >  ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ## 📝 Summary - Stacy Carlson (Automattic's Affiliate and Influencer Director) uses a "making toast" exercise to teach process documentation - Knowledge hoarding creates bottlenecks when scaling teams or handling emergencies - Visual, collaborative process mapping reveals hidden complexity and improves comprehension - Simple tasks like making toast can have 20+ steps when properly documented - Teams should document processes to the "lowest common denominator" to reduce assumptions and increase confidence ## 📖 Main Content Stacy Carlson presents a hands-on workshop demonstrating how seemingly simple tasks reveal complex processes when properly documented. The session uses three exercises to illustrate process documentation principles. ### The Toast Problem Participants first draw individual process maps for making toast using only pictures, typically producing 5-10 steps. When working in pairs with moveable paper pieces and words allowed, teams consistently generate 15-20+ steps, revealing the hidden complexity in "simple" tasks. ### Collaborative Advantage Working together produces more comprehensive processes because each person brings unique knowledge, habits, and edge cases. The exercise demonstrates how static documentation (single paper) limits thinking compared to dynamic mapping (moveable pieces). ### Knowledge Hoarding Crisis Freelancers and small teams often store all operational knowledge mentally, creating critical vulnerabilities during scaling, emergencies, or transitions. Employees without clear processes lose confidence and struggle to determine if they're performing correctly. ### Documentation Principles - Start with tasks you hate doing most (natural delegation candidates) - Document to the lowest common denominator (assume minimal prior knowledge) - One clear process beats a half-finished library - Include the "why" for steps that might seem arbitrary - Review processes with someone unfamiliar with the work - Accept that there's often no single "right" way to achieve the same outcome ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:01:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=90) Knowledge Hoarding Problem - Freelancers and one-person teams keep everything in their heads - Worst time to document processes is when you need help (already maxed out) - People lose confidence when they don't know if they're doing good work #### ⏱️ [00:06:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=405) Toast Exercise Setup - Draw process for making toast using only pictures - One step per drawing - Had to specify "you have bread and toaster" to prevent farmers from starting with planting wheat #### ⏱️ [00:11:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=680) Individual Results - Most people had 5+ steps - Some had 10+ steps - Maximum ever recorded was 24 steps - Common missed steps: checking if toaster is plugged in, adjusting darkness dial, checking if toast is done #### ⏱️ [00:15:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=930) Collaborative Exercise - Work in pairs with tearable paper pieces - Can use words instead of just pictures - 10-minute time limit #### ⏱️ [00:20:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=1215) Collaborative Results - Teams consistently produced 15-20+ nodes - More precision in breaking down sub-processes - Added parallel processes (plugging in toaster while preparing bread) - Created quality control loops (if burnt, repeat; if underdone, toast more) #### ⏱️ [00:23:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=1425) Opening Letter Exercise - Demonstrates how assumptions create problems - Teams focused entirely on "opening the flap" sub-process - Different approaches (tools vs. fingers, finding starting point) #### ⏱️ [00:28:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=1710) Employee Confidence - Complete playbook increases employee confidence - They leave knowing they did good work instead of wondering - Rule followers especially value clear guidelines #### ⏱️ [00:31:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=1860) Hand Washing Exercise - Reveals cultural and personal differences in approach - Some start with soap, others with water - Neither approach is wrong if end result is the same #### ⏱️ [00:35:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=2120) Real-World Application - Team Example - Nick's UK affiliate acquisition project - Started with Stacy's 57-page process document - Team simplified to essential steps while maintaining effectiveness - Weekly iterations: "What's new now? How are we improving it?" #### ⏱️ [00:40:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=2415) Getting Started Framework - Write down five things you hate doing (first processes to document) - One process at a time - Time-box team sessions to maximum one hour - Use tools where you can move pieces around (Figma, Miro, Trello) - Test with someone unfamiliar with the work #### ⏱️ [00:42:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=2550) Documentation Standards - Single clear process beats half-finished library - Document to prevent ANY questions from new employees - Include "why" explanations for non-obvious requirements - Done beats perfect - Use AI for initial draft, then refine #### ⏱️ [00:45:00](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71L9-tEPb8g&t=2700) Q&A Highlights - Including context and rationale for specific requirements - Starting with lowest common denominator assumptions - Beginning with desired end result and working backwards - Accommodating neurodiversity (still learning, no clear answer) - Balancing comprehensive documentation vs. overwhelming detail ## 📚 References - [WordCamp Europe 2026](https://europe.wordcamp.org/2026/) - Tom Wujek TED Talk on making toast (referenced but not linked) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase Stacy Carlson demonstrates that seemingly simple tasks hide enormous complexity when properly documented. Using hands-on exercises like mapping the process for making toast, opening letters, and washing hands, she shows how individual documentation typically captures 5-10 steps while collaborative mapping reveals 15-20+ steps. This complexity explosion happens because working together surfaces each person's unique knowledge, edge cases, and cultural differences. The core problem she addresses is "knowledge hoarding" - when freelancers and small teams store all operational knowledge mentally. This creates critical vulnerabilities during scaling, emergencies, or team transitions. Employees without clear processes lose confidence because they can't determine if they're performing correctly. Her solution emphasizes documenting to the "lowest common denominator" (assume minimal prior knowledge), focusing first on tasks you hate doing (natural delegation candidates), and accepting that multiple approaches can achieve the same result. The key insight is that comprehensive processes increase employee confidence and enable scaling, while incomplete documentation forces people to fill gaps with their own assumptions and habits. ## 📰 Newsletter **Making Toast: The WordPress Team's Secret to Better Processes** Ever wonder why some WordPress teams scale effortlessly while others stay stuck in firefighting mode? Automattic's Stacy Carlson has a surprisingly simple answer: they document how to make toast. Okay, not literally toast. But Carlson's "making toast" exercise reveals why your WordPress agency might be struggling to grow beyond you. When freelancers and small teams keep everything in their heads, they create critical bottlenecks. Need to bring someone in for a client emergency? Good luck training them while you're already maxed out. Here's the kicker: what seems like a 3-step process ("put bread in toaster, toast it, done") actually has 20+ steps when you account for checking if the toaster's plugged in, adjusting darkness settings, and handling burnt toast. WordPress workflows are the same way - "just update the staging site" assumes knowledge your new team member doesn't have. **Try This Week:** 1. Pick the WordPress task you hate doing most (probably manual backups or client content updates) 2. Document every single step like you're teaching a complete beginner 3. Test it with someone who doesn't know your process Your future self (and your team) will thank you when you can actually take a vacation without your phone blowing up. **Tools to Try:** Figma for collaborative process mapping, Notion for documentation, or even sticky notes on a wall. The medium matters less than getting it out of your head. ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - **Core:** Create standardized process documentation templates for common contributor onboarding workflows - **Community:** Develop "process mapping" workshops for WordCamp organizer training - **Training:** Build lesson plans around collaborative documentation techniques for team scaling - **Support:** Document troubleshooting workflows to reduce assumption-based responses - **Meta:** Standardize deployment processes across different .org properties to reduce tribal knowledge #### DevRel - **Developer Experience:** Create step-by-step quickstart guides that assume zero prior WordPress knowledge - **Education:** Develop workshop curriculum teaching collaborative process documentation for agencies - **Developer Marketing:** Document content creation workflows to enable team scaling - **Community Management:** Create moderation playbooks that work across different cultural contexts #### Community - **Maintainers:** Establish "process documentation sprints" as regular contribution opportunities - **Contributors:** Create mentorship programs focused on documenting tribal knowledge - **Sponsors:** Develop transparent budget allocation processes that reduce confusion and increase confidence #### WPCC - **Programs:** Document fellowship onboarding processes to enable peer mentoring - **Projects:** Create governance templates that can be customized for different project needs - **Funding:** Establish clear grant application and disbursement processes ## 🧪 Hypotheses 1. **Collaborative process mapping generates 2-3x more documented steps than individual mapping** - Teams working together surface unique knowledge, edge cases, and cultural differences that individuals miss 2. **Process documentation quality inversely correlates with team scaling pain** - Organizations with comprehensive processes experience fewer bottlenecks during rapid growth 3. **Employee confidence increases proportionally to process documentation completeness** - Clear playbooks reduce anxiety about job performance 4. **Cultural differences significantly impact process execution even for "universal" tasks** - What works in one region/context may fail in another without adaptation 5. **The "lowest common denominator" documentation approach reduces onboarding time by 50%+** - Assuming minimal prior knowledge prevents knowledge gaps 6. **Tasks people "hate doing" make the best first documentation candidates** - These naturally become delegation priorities and have clear success criteria ## 📊 Methodology ### Study Designs - **Process Complexity Measurement:** Compare individual vs. collaborative documentation for identical tasks across 50+ teams - **Scaling Pain Assessment:** Survey 200+ WordPress agencies on team growth challenges before/after process documentation implementation - **Confidence Correlation Study:** Measure employee self-reported confidence levels against process documentation completeness scores - **Cultural Adaptation Research:** Test same processes across different countries/regions, measuring success rates and required modifications ### Data Sources - Workshop recordings from WordCamps and agency meetups - Before/after surveys from teams implementing process documentation - Performance metrics from agencies during scaling periods - Cross-cultural user experience research ## ❓ Questions - How do neurodiversity considerations change optimal process documentation approaches? - What's the minimum viable documentation that still provides confidence benefits? - How do you balance comprehensive documentation with avoiding overwhelming detail? - When should processes be prescriptive vs. flexible regarding different approaches to the same outcome? - How do asynchronous teams modify collaborative documentation techniques? - What role should AI play in initial process drafting vs. human collaborative mapping? ## 🔮 Future Research - **Neurodiversity-Inclusive Documentation:** Explore how different cognitive styles affect process comprehension and documentation preferences - **AI-Assisted Process Discovery:** Investigate using LLMs to identify knowledge gaps in existing documentation - **Cross-Cultural Process Adaptation:** Study how the same workflow requirements need different documentation approaches across cultures - **Remote Collaboration Mapping:** Develop effective techniques for distributed teams to collaboratively document processes - **Process Documentation ROI:** Quantify the business impact of comprehensive documentation vs. tribal knowledge systems ## 💡 Implications ### Practice - WordPress agencies should prioritize documenting processes they're most reluctant to do (natural delegation candidates) - Remote teams need structured collaboration tools for process mapping sessions - Client onboarding workflows require cultural sensitivity and assumption identification ### Policy - Open source projects should include process documentation as a contribution category - WordPress.org could provide process documentation templates for common community roles ### Security - Critical security workflows must be documented to prevent knowledge loss during team transitions - Incident response procedures need collaborative review to surface all edge cases ### Education - WordPress training programs should teach collaborative documentation as a core skill - Process mapping should be included in agency business development curricula ### Funding - Grant applications should include process documentation requirements to ensure project sustainability - Funding organizations could support process documentation sprints as infrastructure investments ## 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment **Reading level estimate:** 7th grade (using Flesch-Kincaid) - accessible language with technical concepts explained through concrete examples #### 👀 Visual learners - **Present:** Workshop includes hands-on drawing exercises, collaborative sticky note mapping, physical demonstration - **Improve:** Add process flow diagrams, before/after documentation examples, screenshots of different tools mentioned #### 🔊 Aural learners - **Present:** Live presentation with Q&A, verbal explanations of concepts - **Improve:** Provide audio summary of key techniques, podcast-style discussion of implementation challenges #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - **Present:** Clear definitions of "nodes," "links," "lowest common denominator documentation," concrete examples - **Improve:** Add glossary of process documentation terms, more analogies for complex concepts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - **Present:** Physical paper-tearing exercise, hands-on collaborative mapping, multiple practice rounds - **Improve:** Provide downloadable templates for immediate practice, step-by-step checklists #### 🧠 Logical learners - **Present:** Clear progression from simple to complex, systematic approach to documentation, measurable outcomes - **Improve:** Add decision trees for when to use different documentation approaches, KPIs for process quality #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - **Present:** Collaborative exercises, team-based problem solving, group discussion - **Improve:** Create peer review frameworks for processes, community sharing platforms #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - **Present:** Individual drawing exercise before collaboration, self-reflection prompts - **Improve:** Add solo practice worksheets, self-assessment rubrics for process quality #### 🌿 Naturalistic learners - **Present:** Organic process discovery through familiar activities, real-world workplace applications - **Improve:** Connect to ecosystem thinking about team health, sustainable scaling practices ## 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - **Present:** Clear heading structure, descriptive language for exercises - **Improve:** Add alt text for any visual process diagrams, ensure exercise instructions work without visual components #### Keyboard navigation - **Present:** Workshop format doesn't rely on specific digital interfaces - **Improve:** Ensure any recommended tools support keyboard navigation #### Contrast and readability - **Present:** Workshop uses physical materials with high contrast - **Improve:** Specify accessibility requirements for digital tools mentioned (Figma, Miro, etc.) #### Text resizing and reflow - **Present:** Physical format accommodates different visual needs - **Improve:** Ensure digital resources support zoom without losing functionality #### Media and captions - **Present:** Live presentation with verbal explanation - **Improve:** Provide transcript, closed captions for any recorded versions #### Forms and interactions - **Present:** Simple paper-based exercises accessible to various motor abilities - **Improve:** Offer alternative input methods for digital documentation tools ## 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - **Present:** Explicitly discusses cultural differences in processes (US vs German hand washing), acknowledges different approaches can be equally valid - **Improve:** Include more diverse cultural examples, provide localized process templates #### Inclusive language - **Present:** Uses accessible analogies, defines technical terms, avoids jargon - **Improve:** Add more global context for WordPress-specific terms, avoid culturally specific references #### Neurodiversity support - **Present:** Multiple exercise formats accommodate different learning preferences - **Improve:** Address neurodiversity question raised but not fully answered, provide alternative documentation formats #### Representation - **Present:** Female presenter in tech leadership role, diverse workshop participants - **Improve:** Include examples from various company sizes and types, global team scenarios #### Psychological safety - **Present:** Emphasizes no single "right way" to do processes, encourages iteration and improvement - **Improve:** Address imposter syndrome around process creation, provide supportive language for different skill levels ## ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - **Causal reasoning (collaborative complexity):** Working together generates more comprehensive processes because each person brings unique knowledge and perspectives. Strong because demonstrated through repeated workshop results. - **Inductive pattern (scaling bottlenecks):** Knowledge hoarding creates predictable problems during team growth. Strong because pattern holds across different business contexts. - **Analogical reasoning (toast complexity):** If simple tasks have hidden complexity, work processes must too. Strong because parallel holds and leads to actionable insights. #### Fallacies - **Appeal to authority:** "I've been doing this presentation for 5-6 years" doesn't prove the method's effectiveness without outcome data - **Hasty generalization:** Assuming all teams will see 2-3x step increases in collaborative mapping without accounting for team composition variables - **False dichotomy:** Suggesting processes must be either comprehensive or useless, when middle-ground approaches may be optimal for some contexts #### Tone of voice Professional but approachable, using self-deprecating humor ("I'm also a process nerd") and personal anecdotes to build rapport while maintaining expertise credibility. ## 🛡️ DARVO Analysis No DARVO patterns detected. Presentation acknowledges limitations honestly (admits not having solved neurodiversity accommodation), accepts criticism gracefully (team simplifying her 57-page process), and doesn't deflect responsibility for process documentation challenges onto others. ## 🎯 Conclusion Process documentation isn't just bureaucratic overhead - it's the foundation that enables confident scaling. Stacy Carlson's "making toast" method reveals that collaborative mapping consistently uncovers 2-3x more process complexity than individual documentation attempts. For WordPress professionals, this means the difference between staying stuck as a one-person bottleneck and building teams that can operate independently. The key insight is documenting to the "lowest common denominator" - assuming minimal prior knowledge rather than hoping new team members will fill gaps correctly. This approach increases employee confidence, reduces training time, and prevents the knowledge hoarding that kills sustainable growth. **Next steps:** Start with the WordPress tasks you hate doing most. Those are your natural delegation candidates and first documentation priorities. Use collaborative mapping with moveable pieces (digital or physical) rather than static documentation. Test everything with someone unfamiliar with your process. ## 🔄 Refactor Appendix — How to Make Toast ### 📚 Literature Atoms #### Collaborative process mapping reveals 2-3x more complexity than individual documentation > [!quote] ID:rw_workshop_01 > Teams working in pairs with moveable paper pieces consistently generated 15-20+ steps while individual mapping typically produced 5-10 steps **Context & use**: - Demonstrated repeatedly across workshop exercises (toast, letter opening, hand washing) - Key insight: working together surfaces unique knowledge, edge cases, and alternative approaches that individuals miss **Tags**: #process-documentation #team-collaboration #knowledge-management **Highlight**: Workshop demonstration  #### Knowledge hoarding creates critical vulnerabilities during team scaling and emergencies > [!quote] ID:rw_workshop_02 > The worst time possible to write down a process is when you're already maxed out on time or have a family emergency **Context & use**: - Core problem for freelancers and small teams who keep everything mental - Creates bottlenecks that prevent sustainable growth - Leads to employee confidence issues when they can't determine if they're performing correctly **Tags**: #scaling #business-risk #team-management **Highlight**: Workshop presentation  #### Document processes to the lowest common denominator to prevent assumptions > [!quote] ID:rw_workshop_03 > If you don't specifically explain how to do something, people are going to take their intuition, their habits, and they're going to inflict it **Context & use**: - Example of student ripping bread bag open when instructions said "open bread" - Cultural differences in approach (US vs German hand washing techniques) - Both approaches can be valid if end result is the same **Tags**: #documentation-standards #assumptions #cultural-differences **Highlight**: Workshop presentation  ### 🧠 Permanent Candidates #### Comprehensive process documentation directly correlates with employee confidence and team scaling success **Claim**: When employees have complete playbooks for their tasks, they finish work days confident they performed well rather than wondering if they did a good job. **Evidence pointer**: [[#Collaborative process mapping reveals 2-3x more complexity than individual documentation]] **Scope & conditions**: - Holds when: processes are documented collaboratively, tested with unfamiliar users, and specify "why" for non-obvious requirements - Breaks when: documentation becomes so overwhelming it creates analysis paralysis, or when processes are too rigid to accommodate necessary variations **Links**: - [[Team scaling strategies]] — because provides foundation for growth - [[Knowledge management systems]] — because addresses tribal knowledge problems - [[Remote team coordination]] — because applies-in distributed work contexts  ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - Research neurodiversity-inclusive documentation approaches - Stacy mentioned not having figured this out yet - Investigate AI tools for initial process drafting vs. human collaborative mapping effectiveness - Test "lowest common denominator" documentation assumption across different cultural contexts ### → Things 3 - [ ] Document the WordPress task I hate doing most using collaborative mapping method #things - [ ] Test one process document with someone unfamiliar with the work #things --- ## Full Transcript [00:19] Thank you so much. Hey everyone. [00:24] Uh I'm Stacy Carlson. Um I work for [00:27] Automatic. I'm their affiliate and [00:29] influencer director. Um, and you are [00:32] here to learn how to make toast. Um, [00:36] so one thing that anybody who knows me [00:39] knows I love systems and processes. Who [00:43] here has watched Queen's Gambit the [00:46] movie? Okay. So, in Queen's Gambit, [00:48] she's a chess player and she she plays [00:52] chess by looking at the ceiling and she [00:53] can see all the pieces moving. And [00:56] that's what I do with sis and processes. [00:58] When somebody gives me a problem that [01:00] they can't solve, I spend hours just [01:03] looking at the ceiling trying to like [01:04] move all these little cards around and [01:07] try to figure out how to solve that [01:08] problem. [01:10] Um, so when I saw a TED talk by Tom [01:13] Wujek um on how to make toast and him [01:17] inviting people to go out and actually [01:19] teach people about this, I'm like, I'm [01:21] down for that. I am going to do this [01:23] because most people find systems and [01:26] processes very daunting and not very [01:28] fun. So, we're going to make it fun [01:30] today. [01:33] So, humans, we hoard our knowledge. [01:36] Everything that we know, we just keep in [01:38] our brain. And for anybody who's been [01:41] freelancing or oneperson team, um, all [01:44] that knowledge sits in your head. The [01:47] problem with that is that when you need [01:50] to bring on somebody to help you, that's [01:53] the worst time possible to write down a [01:56] process because if you're already maxed [01:58] out on time or you have a family [02:00] emergency or or whatnot, uh, you don't [02:03] have the time to train somebody how to [02:06] do the job. And the problem with that is [02:08] that people will start working and they [02:10] lose the confidence because they don't [02:12] know whether or not they're doing a good [02:14] job doing what they're doing. [02:17] So, um, how many of you have been in [02:21] this position? Does this sound familiar? [02:24] Uh, I came, we had a a a coming to uh [02:30] Jesus moment in my own team because we [02:33] had been so busy building out the [02:35] affiliate and the influencer program. We [02:37] realized, oh, we don't have any [02:40] processes. And this is the girl standing [02:41] up here telling you to create processes. [02:43] I did not have processes for my team. [02:46] Um, but it's an aspect of it's the last [02:50] thing that we want to do, but it's the [02:53] most important thing for you to do in [02:55] the future. So, we're down to this. So, [03:00] what does this have to do with making [03:02] toast? Okay, [03:05] you're starving. [03:07] You want toast, but you're in a country [03:09] that doesn't speak your language, and [03:12] you need to tell the waiter, "I want [03:14] toast." [03:15] So, how do you do that when you don't [03:17] speak the language? Um, and you can only [03:20] draw pictures. [03:22] So, you're standing there and you say, [03:24] "I want toast." And he's like, "I don't [03:26] I don't know what you're talking about." [03:29] So, you could tell him and he could [03:31] bring out bread or French toast or [03:34] garlic bread, but those are that's not [03:36] what you want. Uh, croutons, [03:39] steak. uh you know if he does again you [03:42] don't speak the language or worse yet he [03:46] brings you toast and it's burnt because [03:48] he actually likes burnt toast. [03:51] So we're going to go ahead and just do a [03:54] little project here and everybody should [03:56] have paper and pen. If you don't look [03:58] around the tables will have them. [04:00] There's some extra paper and pen over [04:01] here. And what we're going to do is [04:03] we're actually going to draw out the [04:05] process on how to make toast. So [04:08] everybody go ahead and move around if [04:10] you need to grab your papers, pens. [04:12] Everybody good. [04:18] Molly, do you need a I actually Yeah, [04:22] we have pens and papers. [04:27] Sorry. [04:30] Who else needs a pen? Anybody? [04:34] Okay, Molly. [04:40] Okay, you have three minutes. You're [04:43] going to draw out the process of how to [04:45] make toast. You have bread, you have a [04:48] toaster. Now, I've been doing this [04:51] presentation for about five, six years. [04:53] And I have to be very careful about [04:55] putting uh beginning and end on this [04:57] because I did it with a bunch of farmers [04:59] and they actually drew out how to plant [05:02] the seed, grow the the wheat, how to [05:04] process the wheat, how to make it into [05:06] bread. So you have bread and you have a [05:10] toaster and you have three minutes and [05:12] you have to do it with pictures only. No [05:14] words, just pictures. One step per step. [05:19] One step in the process. So I'm going to [05:21] go ahead and let you just start drawing. [05:23] Don't worry about whether or not you're [05:24] artistic. I am not. Um, that doesn't [05:27] matter. So, bread and a toaster. [05:41] Everybody's like, [05:44] uh, how many had more than five steps? [05:48] Okay. More than 10. [05:51] Okay, awesome. Just so you know, the [05:54] most I've ever seen somebody do is 24. [05:57] Just so you know, who wants to share [05:59] their stats? [06:04] Yes. [06:07] Wonder if these work. Hold on. [06:10] Test. Yeah, I think these work. [06:13] You didn't know you were going on [06:14] microphone, did you? Will you pass this [06:16] down? Oh, there you go. Yeah. Well, my [06:20] first drawing is the bread showing a [06:23] knife cutting it [06:27] or just to see. [06:29] >> Yeah. [06:29] >> The second one is [06:32] the bread with the extra slice cuted. [06:37] Then next I have the extra slice cuted [06:40] moving into the toaster [06:43] showing um that you have to press down [06:45] the button. Yep. [06:46] >> So the toast goes in. Next drawing is [06:49] the toaster like transparent. So you see [06:52] the bread inside the toaster. [06:55] Next um toast jumped out. [06:59] And then the next one is the bread on [07:02] the plate next to the toaster. [07:03] >> Awesome. Does anybody have steps that [07:05] she didn't mention? Yeah. Go ahead and [07:07] pass that down over to her. [07:10] >> I think um checking that the toaster is [07:11] plugged in. [07:12] >> Yes. Yes. Who else? Who else? [07:15] >> Checking that the toaster is plugged in. [07:18] Yeah, go ahead and hand it over here. [07:21] >> I wouldn't necessarily call it a step, [07:23] but I have something to validate how uh [07:25] if it's toasted enough or if [07:28] >> Yes. [07:29] >> like if it's burnt. [07:31] >> Awesome. Um who on theirs? Yes. If we [07:35] could pass it on up. We're just We can't [07:37] unfortunately can't throw it at people. [07:38] They would frown upon that. [07:40] >> I I do it on an open toaster. So I have [07:42] to the step where you have to turn the [07:44] bread over. [07:45] >> Exactly. Yeah. And it depends on what [07:47] type of toaster you have. Um, who else [07:50] who had a step to check the the dial on [07:53] how dark your bread? Yes. Uh, people [07:57] forget that. And my son, he likes burnt [08:00] toast. And I always forget to check the [08:02] dial on the toaster and I'll put my [08:04] bread in and then my bread's burnt, [08:06] which does not make me happy. Uh, [08:09] because I don't like burnt toast, but he [08:11] does. So, so here's what we're going to [08:14] do next. [08:16] uh we did this. So understanding [08:19] processes there's nodes and there's [08:21] links and what we have found is that [08:24] when people write on paper like this [08:27] where you can't move things around and [08:28] you can't use words you have less notes. [08:32] Um, however, um, when you can actually [08:35] move things around on a on a board, you [08:39] start building out more complex [08:41] processes. And it also helps when you [08:43] can actually use words instead of [08:45] pictures. Um, and so [08:48] we're now going to go ahead and you're [08:50] going to get a partner. So look to the [08:52] person to your right, to your left, and [08:54] you're going to take a piece of paper, [08:55] and it's going to get loud in here, and [08:57] that's the best part. You're going to [08:58] tear the pieces of paper up into pieces. [09:01] And now you're going to work together to [09:03] create a complex map of how to make [09:06] toast. This time you can use words. You [09:09] don't have to do images. You can talk. [09:12] You can discuss. Um, and I'm going to go [09:14] ahead and give you 10 minutes. It might [09:16] not take that long, but that's how much [09:18] long you got. So, find your partner. Go [09:21] ahead and start tearing pieces. So, and [09:23] we usually do this with sticky notes, [09:24] but this works just fine. [09:34] Awesome. [09:36] >> Wow. I'm really amazed. [09:38] >> Who had more than 10 nodes? [09:41] >> Then what? [09:42] >> Okay. Who had more than 15? [09:46] >> Awesome. How many had more than 20? [09:49] Remember I told you there can be up to [09:51] 24 steps on this. [09:53] Awesome. What is the main thing that you [09:55] guys noticed the most in regards to when [10:00] you had to do it on a static piece of [10:01] paper and when you were able to move the [10:04] pieces of paper around? Who wants to [10:05] share? [10:08] >> Yeah, you got the microphone right [10:09] there. [10:10] >> Okay. So, what I noticed is that we were [10:13] more um [10:16] um precise in the process. We didn't do [10:19] it like in general. We we did like [10:22] really the smallest process. We divided [10:25] it to really small process and also it [10:27] helped because we heard things I heard [10:30] things that I didn't think about. So it [10:32] was really good and we [10:34] >> added it to the process. But in the [10:37] drawing I did like four or five and here [10:39] like we have more than [10:41] >> uh 15. So [10:43] >> awesome. [10:43] >> Yeah. [10:44] >> What else did somebody else share? Oh, [10:46] we'll just hand it over to you. Go for [10:48] it. [10:49] Well, we we we started out with a um a [10:51] parallel process where one was plugging [10:54] in the toaster at the same time somebody [10:57] is doing the bread. And then we ended up [11:00] with a quality check that either if it's [11:03] too burnt, trash and repeat. [11:05] >> If it's not done enough, [11:07] >> go back to step A and repeat. And if [11:09] it's perfect, serve it. [11:12] >> I love I love working with tech people [11:14] because it's it's never like a linear. [11:16] It's like, can we branch off? and I'm [11:18] like, I don't I don't care. You do [11:19] whatever you want. Um, anybody else want [11:22] to share what they kind of just noticed [11:23] when they were doing it on the pieces of [11:25] paper? [11:26] >> Okay, come over there. [11:39] Go. [11:40] So we also realized that there were some [11:43] steps missing and then with the papers [11:48] separate you have more flexibility to [11:49] move things around. So I think that's [11:51] the main thing that we realized what [11:54] while doing it on this way and and also [11:57] now as they said before um we added [12:01] things that were missing that we didn't [12:04] realize when we were doing it in the [12:06] first place alone. So yeah, I mean, and [12:08] that's a huge part of it is that when [12:10] you can start moving your pieces of [12:11] paper around, you get more nodes because [12:14] you're like, "Oh, wait a minute. Here's [12:15] a step that I actually missed." And I'm [12:17] going to go ahead and add that. Um, the [12:20] more nodes the better. Uh, there can't [12:22] be too many nodes as far as I'm [12:24] concerned. Um, so I did this [12:26] presentation with an entrepreneurship [12:29] class and in the United States, we don't [12:32] cut our bread. It comes pre-cut. Um, and [12:35] so I brought in they they did their [12:37] post-it notes and I brought in their [12:39] student, one of their students, and I [12:41] said, "If they don't specifically [12:42] explain to you how to do something, you [12:45] get to go ahead and just decide what you [12:47] want to do." And so the student came in [12:49] on the very first Post-it note, which [12:50] said, "Open bread." And so he did. He [12:53] ripped the bag open. Yes. He ripped the [12:55] bag open and the bread went everywhere. [12:57] And I'm like, "Well, now we can't make [12:58] the toast." So, but this is the part [13:01] that's so incredibly important in [13:03] regards to creating a process is that if [13:06] you do not explain how to do something, [13:08] people are going to take their [13:10] intuition, their habits, and they're [13:12] going to inflict it in them. Um, I have [13:14] had people who say, "Well, everybody [13:16] knows how to make toast." Um, I've [13:19] taught this to students who actually [13:21] came from an area that did not have [13:23] electricity, so no, they did not make [13:25] toast. They didn't even know what toast [13:26] was. we had to explain it first. So [13:30] having that assumption that everybody [13:32] knows how to do it actually puts people [13:34] at a inconvenience. So now you know how [13:37] to make toast. What's the What's the [13:39] largest number you guys had? How many? [13:43] >> 20. Anybody have more than 20? So we [13:46] should all like take all of our pieces [13:48] of paper and like see which ones are [13:51] still missing. But I won't make you do [13:52] that. Um, so we're actually going to um, [13:56] basically going back to this, when you [13:58] build it together, you bring your own [14:00] personal opinions and habits and [14:02] knowledge into it. So I might remember [14:05] to go ahead and change the knob because [14:07] my son always turns it to darkest, but [14:10] other people might not remember to do [14:12] that. So working together, you get more [14:14] nodes and you get a more comprehensive [14:16] process. [14:19] um what toast teaches us about thinking, [14:22] we make it visible. We understand that [14:26] uh there's so much complexity in regards [14:28] to a simple process simple that can have [14:33] 20 steps or more. Um but then when you [14:36] put it on a piece of paper that you can [14:37] move it around, you can make it [14:39] iterative. So you can move things around [14:41] like you said in regards to, oh, I [14:44] remembered this step and I need to put [14:46] that in here. And it makes it [14:47] collective. When you work together to [14:49] create a process, again, you're bringing [14:51] all those minds into this this challenge [14:54] of getting things down on paper. So, we [14:58] have a new problem. [15:00] You guys are going to go ahead with you [15:02] can write words, not images. How do you [15:05] open a letter? [15:07] How do you open just a letter in the [15:09] mail? We don't get money letters [15:11] anymore. Um, an envelope. Like an [15:14] envelope. Yes. So now I want you with [15:16] your partners again to map out how to [15:19] open a letter. And if you need more [15:21] paper, let me know. I'll bring you more [15:23] paper. Just go ahead and tear them up. [15:27] Pardon? [15:29] Oh, [15:32] you know you're going to have to figure [15:34] that one out. [15:37] Does anybody need more paper? [15:40] >> Oh, you have no pen? [15:43] No. [15:47] By a show of hands, who feels like they [15:50] completed the entire process [15:55] hesitant up here? Who wants to share [15:58] what they uh found from this? What what [16:01] things did you notice in regards to the [16:03] conversations that you were having with [16:04] your partner? And if you want to share, [16:07] you can come up to the the microphone. [16:12] >> Nobody [16:14] Sorry. [16:15] >> Uh, am I audible at the back? [16:18] >> Oh, okay. Yes. [16:19] >> Sorry. [16:21] >> Hello. [16:23] Step one, I take the envelope. [16:27] Step two, I pull the envelope towards [16:29] me. Step three, I put it on the table. [16:34] Step four, I open the flap. [16:38] Step five, I grab the letter. Step six, [16:43] I pull it out. Step seven, I angle it [16:47] right. And step eight, I unfold it. [16:51] >> Okay, awesome. What is one step in there [16:55] that you had questions about? Like if [16:56] you were to get that process. Yeah, if [16:59] you want to come up up here or we can [17:02] hand it out to you. We have multiples, [17:03] don't we? [17:05] Sorry. [17:08] Um, well, our process was pretty much [17:10] entirely about how to open the flap. We [17:13] skipped everything else that you said, [17:15] but we were like, do you have a tool? [17:17] And there's different types of tools. [17:19] And if not, how would you describe using [17:21] a finger to like do you have a hole to [17:24] start with or like how do you open right [17:27] >> the flap? That was like the whole thing [17:28] we focused on. [17:29] >> I mean, again, if I can use my son as an [17:31] analogy, he would just rip the envelope [17:33] in half and then pull out whatever's [17:35] inside of it like as a savage does. [17:38] Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, so I mean that's [17:40] the whole thing about a process is that [17:43] we think we have all the steps and then [17:45] we ask somebody to do it and they do it [17:48] differently. Um, whose fault is that? Is [17:51] it theirs? No. Because if you can give [17:55] them, think about this. If you can give [17:56] somebody a a full playbook that explains [17:59] exactly how to do a process and you hand [18:02] it to your brand new employee and they [18:04] look at that, how much confidence do you [18:06] think they're going to have to run [18:08] through that process? Are they going to [18:09] feel confident or less confident? Shout [18:12] it out. [18:14] >> Yes, they're confident because you've [18:16] already told them the the the blueprint [18:19] like how to do a good job, how to do the [18:23] job correctly. And when you give your [18:25] employee the confidence to go through a [18:27] process um that you've outlined, they're [18:30] going to leave the day not going, "Oh [18:32] man, I hope I hope I did a good job." [18:34] They're going to leave going, "I did a [18:36] good job today. I followed all the [18:38] rules." And when you're a rule follower, [18:40] that's very important. So, I have one [18:42] more for you, and I promise this is the [18:44] last one. Okay. [18:46] How do you wash your hands? [18:49] This is big in the pandemic. Like, I [18:51] hated my eyew watch. I actually turned [18:53] off this setting because it drove me [18:55] crazy. I don't know about you. It would [18:57] like do that little timer and start [18:59] ticking and I would feel all this [19:00] judgment um and shame that I didn't do [19:03] it long enough. So, exact same thing. [19:06] Tell me how you wash hands. Wash your [19:08] hands. Go for it. You have 10 minutes. [19:15] >> Who wants to share how many steps they [19:17] have? Go for it. [19:20] >> Talk really loud. [19:29] Um, I actually don't want to share the [19:31] steps. [19:32] >> No, you're fine. [19:33] >> I have we have a question because we do [19:35] things so differently that we could not [19:37] find we found a way but we it's like for [19:41] example she takes the soap first and [19:44] then is doing the water thing and I do [19:47] first the water and then take the soap. [19:50] So my question is how do you prepare [19:52] processes for people and clients and [19:54] whatever [19:55] >> if they are so different in the way they [19:58] do things. [19:59] >> Yeah. Um for clients specifically I [20:03] would ask them how how do you do it? [20:06] Have the client like for wash we'll use [20:09] washing your hands. So if she's your [20:11] client you start with her process. The [20:14] thing about processes and I and I talk [20:16] about it more, but thing about processes [20:18] is there's not one way to do something. [20:20] Um, I ran an e-commerce business for 12 [20:23] years and I had my entire company [20:25] processed out and I had created a [20:28] process that had 57 steps and I handed [20:31] it to my team and they looked at me and [20:32] said, "Stacy, you're insane. We're not [20:34] doing this because we can do it in [20:36] three." And that's the thing is that you [20:39] can't be an you can't have ego when it [20:41] comes to your process because if the end [20:43] result is the same no matter how you do [20:47] it, it doesn't matter how it gets done. [20:49] So you can have your process at the end [20:52] of it your hands are washed. You're good [20:54] to go and you have your process the [20:56] same. So yeah. [20:58] >> Yeah. And if you don't have the chance [21:00] to know all your clients in person, like [21:02] really in a general thing. So she's from [21:05] the US, I'm from Germany, and we do it [21:07] completely different. [21:09] >> Um, [21:10] >> so you maybe have processes for each [21:12] nation. Well, I mean, in that case, [21:15] you're like, "Okay, [21:18] you you just explain to the lowest [21:20] common denominator is the best way for [21:22] me to and that doesn't make when you're [21:25] This is such a hard one to explain [21:27] because it's washing your hands and [21:28] there's a cultural difference in [21:29] different places." And there's also a [21:31] habit difference like some people start [21:33] with soap, some people start with water. [21:35] Neither way is wrong. And you could [21:37] preface with, hey, you know, I wash my [21:40] hands one way. I don't I don't really [21:42] care how you do it, but this is the [21:44] general idea of how to do it. And at the [21:47] end, if it's the same result, we're good [21:49] to go. So, essentially that does that [21:52] create any additional questions for you? [21:54] >> No, no, it's just Yeah. [21:56] >> Okay. Awesome. [21:57] >> Thank you so much. [21:57] >> Who else wants to share? [22:02] >> I have a question more than a process. [22:05] >> Yeah. [22:06] If you're defining the end goal and [22:08] you're providing one way of do of doing [22:10] it and someone is following the process [22:12] in their own way, how do you make that [22:15] to to be considered acceptable? Like, [22:17] hey, you can derail from the process, [22:20] then why do we have a process? [22:23] >> Yeah. So, I'm going to pull Nick up [22:25] here. Nick, come on up here. Nick is my [22:27] team member. [22:29] Poor Nick. But if I didn't know he [22:31] wasn't okay with this, I wouldn't have [22:32] pulled him up. [22:34] So, you have a microphone here, Nick. [22:36] You go. [22:39] So, at the beginning of this quarter, we [22:42] decided that we needed to make a [22:44] playbook for our affiliate program. And [22:46] I gave them a playbook with my [22:49] estimation of what I thought the process [22:51] was. And what did I say to you? [22:55] Maybe I shouldn't ask him these [22:56] question. [22:56] >> She's my lead. Wouldn't it be amazing if [22:58] I told her, "I don't remember. [23:00] >> I don't remember." [23:02] >> You don't remember? I told him, I said, [23:04] "This is just an assumption. This is [23:06] just this is what I think you do to [23:10] complete this task." Sorry, Nick. [23:11] >> Oh, that's right. It was mission um go [23:15] out and acquire the United Kingdom, all [23:18] of it. So, I had to figure out, okay, [23:20] what does it look like if we want to map [23:21] out and deck out every agency, every [23:24] recommendation site, every affiliate [23:26] network, every cashback site, all of it? [23:29] She gave me this. What was it? 57 pages. [23:32] >> It was 57 pages. [23:34] >> And I was like, [23:34] >> "You're nuts. You're absolutely nuts." [23:37] And there was so much there. She's like, [23:38] "No, if it's not in there, if it [23:40] shouldn't be in there, take it out." [23:41] >> Yeah. [23:42] >> Take it out. [23:44] >> And that that's the big thing. I mean, [23:46] there is no there is no right. I mean, [23:49] sometimes there is like you have to do [23:51] this like if you know um if you don't do [23:54] it this specific way. I have this for [23:56] paying out manual payments. there is a [23:58] very specific way you need to pay out [24:00] through the program [24:02] >> because if you don't something bad [24:04] happens those are the ones that are [24:06] solid like they're not going to change [24:08] >> but for the mass majority of all [24:10] processes if your team can come to you [24:12] and say I can do this in less steps or [24:15] this doesn't make sense or this should [24:17] go before here you should be okay with [24:19] accepting that and saying let's make [24:21] this process better [24:22] >> and then every Friday we would meet [24:24] what's new now what's new now what's new [24:26] how are you improving it [24:27] >> yeah And what we found is um thank you [24:30] Nick. [24:32] What we found is that um it was [24:34] different in different uh areas. So Nick [24:37] is focused on the UK. We have David [24:39] who's focused on Spain and we have [24:41] Travis who's focused on the United [24:43] States. And what worked in one country [24:45] doesn't work in another country. And so [24:47] that's where it comes down to [24:49] understanding your market. But sometimes [24:51] you just have to go through that process [24:53] first. Um, I'm a firm believer that [24:55] nobody should create a process without [24:57] doing it themselves at least once. Uh, [24:59] because if you don't do it at least [25:01] once, how are you going to become an [25:02] expert to tell somebody else how to do [25:04] it? And so, um, yeah. So, the the hands, [25:09] how many of you um actually did the [25:11] entire process? I saw this where you [25:14] actually washed your hands to like [25:16] remember what each step is. Yes. I and [25:21] because that's we we know we know how to [25:24] do it. Sometimes we just have to remind [25:25] ourselves. [25:27] So in roughly about 35 minutes we did [25:30] three processes. [25:32] We did how to make toast, how to open a [25:35] letter and how to how to u wash your [25:37] hands. [25:39] And um maybe it was fun. I hope it was [25:43] fun. Um [25:45] this is what processes look like in the [25:47] grand scheme of things. So my team [25:49] actually just had our team meet up uh [25:51] last month and we did exactly this and I [25:55] said I want you to take this entire [25:56] room. So picture it. It's this this [25:59] conference room and they had hundreds of [26:01] sticky notes and I said I want you to [26:03] map out everything that you do and the [26:07] steps that go with it. And by the time [26:08] we were done, we had 200 300 sticky [26:11] notes because it was an aspect of Nick [26:15] has his knowledge and Britt has her [26:18] knowledge and David has his knowledge [26:20] and altogether you have this beautiful [26:23] board of all these steps. And that's the [26:25] thing that makes me so happy is when you [26:27] can put all of those down and people can [26:30] see how much you do, it changes how you [26:35] actually look at your work as well. [26:38] So, how do you get started when you [26:40] leave here? That's always the question. [26:42] How do you how do I get started? Um, the [26:44] first thing, one process at a time. [26:47] Do not try to do multiple processes. [26:50] Just start with one. I tell people, um, [26:53] get a piece of paper, write down the [26:56] five things that you hate to do. And I [26:59] tell this to entrepreneurs as well, [27:01] because that's actually the first person [27:02] you hire. [27:04] uh write down the top five things you [27:06] hate to do because those are the things [27:07] that are always getting dumped down to [27:09] the bottom of your list and those are [27:12] the processes that you create first. How [27:14] do you do it? Um document that first uh [27:19] single clear process beats a halffinish [27:22] library every single time. If you don't [27:25] want to write it, get a dictation, talk [27:27] to AI, or even better, as I do, ask AI [27:31] what the initial process looks like, and [27:33] then you go back and say, "Yeah, this [27:34] doesn't this isn't part of this process. [27:37] Oh, it forgot this process or this [27:39] step." So, there's lots of ways to make [27:42] this faster and uh more comprehensive. [27:47] Um, get everybody in the room. Uh, as [27:51] you noticed, everybody brought their own [27:53] thoughts to how to wash your hands or [27:55] how to open a letter. So, time box it um [27:59] with your team. No more than one hour. [28:02] Get everybody on a call inside of like a [28:04] sauna or Trello. It doesn't matter what [28:07] you use. As long as you can move those [28:09] cards around, you guys can start [28:10] building out your processes. [28:13] So, more than one hours, it's [28:15] overwhelming. um review it before you [28:19] hand it off to people. Review it. And [28:21] what I do, I'll hand it to my husband [28:24] who knows nothing about affiliate [28:25] marketing and I say, "Can you understand [28:28] this?" And when he says, "I don't [28:31] understand this step specifically." [28:34] That means that you're missing a portion [28:36] of your process. You should create a [28:39] process that eventually leads to zero [28:41] questions from a new employee because if [28:44] there's a question, they're coming to [28:46] you and saying, "Hey, do you know do you [28:48] know how to do this? I don't I don't [28:50] quite understand this step." That's your [28:52] job to make sure that they understand it [28:54] when they read it the first time. [28:57] Done beats perfect. Um, I don't know [29:00] about you, but I'm a perfectionist. I [29:02] want my process to be beautiful and [29:04] stunning. Uh, it doesn't matter. It can [29:07] be as we found with pictures and we're [29:10] not artistic or it can be words and it [29:13] can be written down on pieces of paper [29:15] that you ripped apart. [29:17] It doesn't matter how you do it. Just [29:19] get it documented. [29:22] And so now everybody in this room knows [29:25] how to make toast. And I want you to [29:27] leave here and I want you to spread the [29:30] joy and happiness of processes because [29:33] it can actually be fun. Um, and I now [29:36] want to open it up to any other [29:37] questions that you have. Does anybody [29:40] have additional questions? [29:44] Yeah, [29:50] >> thanks. Um, so this question is about [29:53] getting people to follow the processes [29:55] and also accommodating the differences [29:57] in how people might do this. I noticed [29:59] when you answered that question, you [30:01] said, "We do it this way because." So, [30:03] I'm curious about how much you feel it's [30:05] important to put the why or the outcome [30:07] you're seeking to achieve. I think in [30:09] the toast example, if you said make sure [30:12] to keep the bread off the floor, that [30:14] would avoid. Yes. [30:15] >> And I've been just struggling a little [30:17] bit with how much to explain. [30:19] >> Um, in the case where you want something [30:21] specific, so we'll use a toast. Let's [30:23] say you start a business and all you're [30:25] selling is golden brown toast and you [30:28] know that on your toaster if you set it [30:31] to four, it's going to give you golden [30:33] brown toast. You include that in there. [30:35] If you specifically know that if you [30:38] send a payment through and it's going to [30:40] break something, you explain why because [30:42] they're going to come and say, and I [30:44] don't know about you, but my my [30:45] curiosity is always on. I'll be like, [30:47] why are we doing this way? So, just [30:49] include it in there. That way they know [30:51] like, hey, if if we if we do it this [30:53] way, it's going to break the system. [30:54] It's going to break things. So, you [30:56] don't have to include everything, but [30:57] like the things that come up the most [31:00] where you're like, would this pique [31:02] somebody's curiosity on how to do this [31:04] easier? So, does that bring up any [31:07] additional questions? No. Awesome. Who [31:10] else? Yeah, back there. [31:19] Uh I have two questions actually. [31:21] Awesome. One would be when So we were [31:24] talking about assumptions when we did [31:26] the toast thing, right? And my question [31:30] is always where do I start with the [31:32] assumption? So how much can I assume of [31:36] a person or like [31:37] >> Yep. [31:38] >> Especially when I'm thinking about [31:39] working with my clients, how much can I [31:41] assume? And I wondered um how you do [31:44] that. So how much do you assume in [31:48] advance and how do you do [31:50] >> as little as possible? And when I say [31:52] create a process to the lowest common [31:54] denominator, what I mean by that is when [31:57] you think about people who know how to [31:58] use a computer, if you were to tell them [32:01] open a file, they know how to open a [32:03] file. But if you're talking to my [32:05] 80year-old grandma, uh she doesn't know [32:08] how to open a file. And so there's an [32:11] assumption that they're going to know [32:12] how to open a file. So instead of saying [32:14] open the file, you say go to the top [32:16] toolbar, you click file, you click open [32:20] and that way uh they everybody knows how [32:23] to do it. And the thing that I found [32:25] that with people who do know how to do [32:27] the process, they just skip those steps. [32:29] They're like, "Oh, I know that." And [32:30] they just go to the next step. It's just [32:32] a natural flow. So it's not like I don't [32:34] want to burden them with too much [32:36] information because it's annoying [32:38] because we literally just skip those [32:41] steps. [32:42] And what was your second question? [32:43] >> Yeah, the second question would be do [32:45] you ever start with the expectation of [32:48] the result? So instead of drawing the [32:53] the whole process, you start with this [32:57] is the result you or I I'd expect or you [33:02] should expect the reader of this [33:03] instruction of this process of this [33:05] process. [33:06] >> Yeah. Um I always start at the end. Um [33:08] and in fact my team knows this. I I I [33:10] tell them this all the time. I derisk [33:12] things as much as possible. So I go to [33:14] the end and work backwards. So all the [33:17] time I do that. So if you want a golden [33:19] piece of toast, what do you need to do [33:22] to actually make that happen? And same [33:24] way like if you want your onboarding for [33:27] clients to be that they walk away [33:29] excited and happy and confident that [33:31] you're going to do a great job, work [33:34] your way backwards through those steps. [33:36] How can we do that to make sure that [33:37] that is accomplished? So, so yeah, of [33:40] course for for like your procedural [33:42] design, but even for a like [33:45] communicating it to the client. As an [33:47] example, if you're thinking about [33:48] washing our hands, like uh the expected [33:52] result could be [33:55] very clean hands um or like I don't know [34:00] clean nails. [34:01] >> So that's like it's already different [34:03] results, right? So do you even start [34:05] with that [34:06] >> at at the beginning? Yeah, you can. And [34:09] when you're creating a process too, um [34:11] text is fine, but remember everybody [34:13] learns in a different way. Most of the [34:15] time I'll actually create a video as [34:16] well that walks people through so that [34:18] they have a visual. Um images are always [34:21] good in a process. Uh screenshots, [34:23] things like that. [34:25] >> Yeah, [34:26] >> thank you. [34:27] >> Who else? [34:33] >> I have one little question. how you [34:35] implement the neurodeiversity of people [34:38] to the process and uh how you develop [34:42] this process or [34:45] >> that that's a hard one. Um I'm still [34:47] learning it. Um because yeah uh I as [34:52] Nick mentioned I gave him a 67page [34:54] document and he doesn't like 67page [34:57] documents. Um I love them uh but he [35:00] doesn't. um you you just you learn. Um I [35:04] I don't know how to answer that one [35:06] because I haven't quite figured it out. [35:08] So I unfortunately that's a great [35:10] question. I'll get back to you on that. [35:11] How's that? [35:14] Um down over here. Yeah, if you want to [35:18] hop up to this microphone here. [35:24] Given that the process is usually [35:25] iterative and that you're usually [35:28] targeting let's say an employee who you [35:31] expect to have some skills like how do [35:34] you avoid a 67page document? [35:38] Do you go about it through the minimum [35:42] effort and then iterate through the [35:44] process and see where the mistakes [35:46] happen or do you just go all out from [35:49] the beginning and just try to encompass [35:52] everything because I think that's where [35:54] you can just get caught up and just like [35:57] how do you what's a hand you know step [36:00] one be born or [36:02] >> yeah like the question for the letter is [36:04] like well where do I start like is it do [36:07] I do I have to walk to the post office [36:09] first. Um, [36:11] you know, [36:14] I personally, um, I like to do the full [36:18] process and let them pair it down. Um, [36:21] and then I give it, I usually put a [36:22] TLDDR on it as well. Um, [36:26] and I think internally you can kind of [36:29] learn what you need to do for an [36:31] employee, but again, it's still a you [36:33] don't want assumptions. Um, if you're [36:37] assuming that they know something and [36:38] they don't, then it you get into trouble [36:41] because again, they don't know if [36:42] they're doing a good job. So, I would [36:44] start out again with a bigger document [36:47] knowing that human nature will skip the [36:49] steps that they know like, "Oh, duh. Of [36:51] course, I know this step." They'll just [36:53] skip it and go on to the next thing. [36:57] >> Any other questions? We have about three [36:59] minutes. Yes. [37:00] >> Yes. I've got a question as well. Um I [37:03] was wondering uh do you have any advice [37:05] when you're working with customers which [37:08] are not sure about their own process yet [37:11] and especially because they have like uh [37:14] I've got a qu customer in mind which [37:17] essentially doing the same in the end uh [37:21] they they giving handing out subsidies [37:23] for for different parties but the way [37:26] they do it is completely different every [37:30] time and they're how How can you help [37:33] them as well? Perhaps with like how to [37:36] make a toast, but [37:38] >> do you have any advice on that part? [37:40] >> Have do you have an opportunity to sit [37:43] down with that specific client and say, [37:44] "Hey, let's let's actually talk about [37:46] this process and put it down on paper so [37:48] that we can actually get additional help [37:50] at some point. Is that something that [37:52] you've ever done?" [37:55] >> Yes, but it's also that we we've got a [37:57] product owner. So that that's like one [37:59] part but like there like I think 20 [38:03] different divisions which are working [38:05] slightly different every time [38:07] >> right [38:07] >> and we're trying to get to a [38:10] standardized process but meanwhile we're [38:13] doing that there are still so many ifs [38:16] and thens and maybe and buts and [38:18] >> yeah no I yeah um I do very polite and [38:21] sometimes not polite reminders um we [38:24] have a we have a process on when to post [38:26] to Slack and when not to. Um I will do a [38:30] gentle reminder like hey we have this [38:32] process. Um we want to make sure that [38:35] we're doing this correctly so that we [38:36] can scale at some point or something in [38:39] regards to that. And just keep reminding [38:41] them to go back to the process. Um and [38:45] be curious. Ask them why they're doing [38:47] it this way. You know you know like if [38:50] they're doing the opposite of what [38:52] you're asking to do, ask them if there's [38:54] like an efficiency that you just don't [38:56] know about. So, there's ways that you [38:58] can kind of lean into the friendliness [38:59] of learning. Why are they doing it [39:01] differently each time? Does that create [39:04] more questions or did that answer it? [39:07] >> Both. [39:08] >> Okay. [39:09] All the things. Okay. We have one [39:12] minute. One last question right here. [39:28] Uh as a freelancer uh working mostly [39:31] solo, I tend to just keep all the [39:34] processes inside my mind because I [39:36] actually don't need to share them with [39:39] colleagues or people. Uh what's your uh [39:43] opinion? Do you think it could be useful [39:46] to write them down? [39:48] >> Absolutely. Anyway, [39:49] >> yes. Um having done freelancer um I've [39:53] done freelancer work, it's an aspect [39:57] there's always a chance that you could [39:59] scale. What what happens if you want to [40:01] bring on one more person? What happens [40:03] if you want to start an agency? Uh what [40:05] if you just need somebody to fill in for [40:08] a day or two? Um, so I suggest everybody [40:12] create the processes. Don't let it live [40:13] just in your head because you never know [40:16] when you're going to need another person [40:17] to help out. And so, uh, but then again, [40:21] I'm also a process nerd. So, [40:25] uh, yeah, that was the last question. I [40:28] thank you everybody for coming. I know [40:30] that systems and processes are not sexy. [40:32] Um, however, they are one of the most [40:35] important things to scale any business [40:37] to keep it flowing. And so, I thank you [40:39] all for joining me on how to make toast. [40:41] Thank you.  ## Highlights - Teams working in pairs with moveable paper pieces consistently generated 15-20+ steps while individual mapping typically produced 5-10 steps - Note: 📚 Collaborative process mapping reveals 2-3x more complexity than individual documentation · - Demonstrated repeatedly across workshop exercises (toast, letter opening, hand washing) - Key insight: working together surfaces unique knowledge, edge cases, and alternative approaches that individuals miss · #atom/literature/h1 - The worst time possible to write down a process is when you're already maxed out on time or have a family emergency - Note: 📚 Knowledge hoarding creates critical vulnerabilities during team scaling and emergencies · - Core problem for freelancers and small teams who keep everything mental - Creates bottlenecks that prevent sustainable growth - Leads to employee confidence issues when they can't determine if they're performing correctly · #atom/literature/h2 - If you don't specifically explain how to do something, people are going to take their intuition, their habits, and they're going to inflict it - Note: 📚 Document processes to the lowest common denominator to prevent assumptions · - Example of student ripping bread bag open when instructions said "open bread" - Cultural differences in approach (US vs German hand washing techniques) - Both approaches can be valid if end result is the same · #atom/literature/h3 - Comprehensive process documentation directly correlates with employee confidence and team scaling success - Note: Holds when: processes are documented collaboratively, tested with unfamiliar users, and specify "why" for non-obvious requirements · - [[Team scaling strategies]] — because provides foundation for growth · #atom/zettel/z1 - ** "I've been doing this presentation for 5-6 years" doesn't prove the method's effectiveness without outcome data - Note: 🔍 Fallacy: Appeal to Authority #fallacy/appeal-to-authority - ** Assuming all teams will see 2-3x step increases in collaborative mapping without accounting for team composition variables - Note: 🔍 Fallacy: Hasty Generalization #fallacy/hasty-generalization