WordCamp Europe 2026 - Panel the future of SEO

WordCamp Europe 2026 - Panel: the future of SEO ![rw-book-cover](https://readwise-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/static/images/article3.5c705a01b476.png) 🔗 **Source:** [WordCamp Europe 2026 - Panel: the future of SEO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg) > [!note]+ Document Notes > tags: [seo-evolution, ai-search-optimization, wordpress-marketing, brand-authority, content-strategy, digital-marketing] > author: [MISSING] > source: WordCamp Europe 2026 > reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg > date created: {{date:YYYY-MM-DD}} {{time:HH:mm}} > > # 🏷️ Title: WordCamp Europe 2026 - Panel: the future of SEO >  ## 🧭 Table of Contents - [📝 Summary](#-summary) - [📖 Main Content](#-main-content) - [🗒️ Notes](#️-notes) - [📚 References](#-references) - [🗣️ Paraphrase](#️-paraphrase) - [📰 Newsletter](#-newsletter) - [✅ Action Items](#-action-items) - [🧪 Hypotheses](#-hypotheses) - [📊 Methodology](#-methodology) - [❓ Questions](#-questions) - [🔮 Future Research](#-future-research) - [💡 Implications](#-implications) - [🧠 Learning Styles Assessment](#-learning-styles-assessment) - [📊 Accessibility Assessment](#-accessibility-assessment) - [🌍 DEIB Assessment](#-deib-assessment) - [✅ Logical Validity](#-logical-validity) - [🛡️ DARVO Analysis](#-darvo-analysis) - [🎯 Conclusion](#-conclusion) ## 📝 Summary - Five SEO experts discussed how AI is transforming search engine optimization strategies for WordPress users - The panel agrees SEO isn't dead but evolving—requiring more holistic marketing integration and brand-focused approaches - Key shift: from optimizing for traffic to optimizing for AI citations and recommendations - Quality content with human experience becomes critical as AI filters out commodity/mediocre content - Traditional blue links will likely disappear within 5-10 years, replaced by AI-powered agentic interfaces - WordPress site owners need accurate structured data, consistent brand messaging, and unique experiential content ## 📖 Main Content The WordPress community gathered at WordCamp Europe 2026 to address how artificial intelligence is reshaping SEO strategies. A panel of five industry experts—Jovanna (content strategist), David (Spanish agency owner), Alex Moss (Yoast principal SEO), Pam (founder of multiple marketing companies), and moderator Casper—explored the transition from traditional SEO to what they termed "SEO + GEO" (Generative Engine Optimization). ### Core Transformation: Traffic to Citations The fundamental shift isn't just technological—it's strategic. Where SEO previously focused on driving clicks to websites, the new paradigm prioritizes getting AI systems to cite and recommend your brand. Alex Moss emphasized that "brand is the new backlink," highlighting how authority and recognition matter more than traditional ranking factors. ### The Content Quality Imperative All panelists agreed that AI is raising content standards dramatically. David noted that "content was king, but now user is really king," while Pam stressed the importance of incorporating human experience into content—the new "E" in Google's E-E-A-T guidelines (Experience, Expertise, Authoritativeness, Trustworthiness). The key differentiator becomes unique human experience rather than generic information. AI systems hunt for original sources and human insights, which explains why platforms like Reddit perform well in AI-generated answers. ### Technical Accuracy and Structured Data Jovanna emphasized data integrity as crucial for AI optimization. Inaccurate information can compound through AI systems, creating persistent misconceptions about brands. She advocated for precise structured data and entity accuracy to reduce AI processing load and improve selection probability. ### WordPress-Specific Implications Alex Moss, representing Yoast with over 13 million installations, described their cautious approach to AI features. They're implementing helpful technologies like NLP-web (aggregating schema into endpoints) while being careful not to make hasty decisions affecting millions of sites. ## 🗒️ Notes #### ⏱️ [00:03:12](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=192) Introduction and AI as the "Elephant in the Room" - Moderator Casper introduces the AI transformation challenge - Google officially shifting from blue links to generative answers - Question: What does this change for WordPress users and SEO community? #### ⏱️ [00:04:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=270) Alex Moss: "Same Stuff, Different Technology" - AI agents are gateways to humans, not end users - Recommends stepping back from dramatic changes - Focus on unique, quality, non-commodity content for humans - Warns against jumping on trends (Reddit example) #### ⏱️ [00:06:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=375) David: Content vs User Hierarchy Shift - Disagrees with Alex—believes SEO has fundamentally changed - "Content was king, now user is really king" - AI making mediocre content obsolete - Standards rising significantly #### ⏱️ [00:08:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=525) Jovanna: Holistic Marketing Integration - SEO no longer operates in isolation - Must integrate with brand strategy and product marketing - SEO finally getting deserved recognition as part of broader marketing #### ⏱️ [00:11:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=680) Pam: Brand as the New Backlink - SEO is foundation, GEO is new layer on top - Shift from chasing clicks to chasing citations - Brand building becomes critical for AI recommendations - Traffic quality improves dramatically when AI pre-vets brands #### ⏱️ [00:14:50](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=890) Practical Advice: Data Integrity and Accuracy - Alex emphasizes structured data accuracy to prevent hallucinations - Real example: Company age misstated by AI due to old blog post - Accurate data reduces AI processing tokens, improves selection #### ⏱️ [00:17:30](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=1050) Product Placement and Consistency - Jovanna advocates specific product descriptions on each strategic page - Consistent messaging across all platforms critical for AI accuracy - External placements and PR must align with website content #### ⏱️ [00:20:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=1215) Unique Content Strategy - David emphasizes commodity content avoidance - Small businesses must create unique, valuable content - Mix marketing channels for brand building - Local SEO becomes more important for smaller players #### ⏱️ [00:23:40](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=1420) Google's Experience Guidelines - Pam explains Google's E-E-A-T update post-ChatGPT - "Experience" added 40-50 times to quality rater guidelines - Must demonstrate specific human experiences, not just credentials - Share times, places, events that built expertise #### ⏱️ [00:27:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=1640) Yoast's Cautious AI Approach - Alex describes careful implementation strategy - Focus on beneficial web technologies (NLP-web example) - Opt-in rather than opt-out for AI features - Responsibility for millions of sites drives conservative approach #### ⏱️ [00:31:45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=1905) SEO Tricks and Gaming Systems - Panel unanimously against shortcuts and gaming - System increasingly hard to trick - Reddit works because of human experience, not as a hack - Quality over manipulation approach emphasized #### ⏱️ [00:36:20](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=2180) Future of Blue Links (5-15 Years) - Panel agrees blue links will disappear - Agentic AI will handle transactions directly - Websites become APIs for AI agents - Human verification still needed for major purchases #### ⏱️ [00:42:15](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=2535) Measurement and Analytics - Alex advocates focusing on bottom-line business goals - Quality over quantity in traffic metrics - Conversion rates improve with AI-vetted traffic - Traditional page 5-10 rankings were never valuable ## 📚 References - [WordCamp Europe 2026](https://europe.wordcamp.org/2026/) - [Yoast SEO Plugin](https://yoast.com/) - [Google E-E-A-T Guidelines](https://developers.google.com/search/docs/fundamentals/creating-helpful-content) - [NLP-web Technology](https://nlpweb.org/) ## 🗣️ Paraphrase SEO professionals at WordCamp Europe 2026 reached consensus that search optimization is evolving rather than dying. The transformation requires WordPress site owners to shift from traffic-focused tactics to brand-building strategies that earn AI citations. Success now depends on producing unique content showcasing human experience, maintaining data accuracy across all platforms, and integrating SEO with broader marketing efforts. While traditional blue links may disappear within a decade, the fundamental goal remains the same: connecting valuable content with people who need it, just through AI intermediaries rather than direct clicks. ## 📰 Newsletter 🔍 **SEO Evolution Alert**: WordPress pros gathered at WordCamp Europe 2026 to decode AI's impact on search optimization. The verdict? SEO isn't dead—it's graduating to "SEO + GEO" (Generative Engine Optimization). Key shifts: optimize for AI citations over clicks, emphasize unique human experience in content, and maintain surgical accuracy in structured data. The Yoast team's taking a thoughtfully cautious approach to AI features, while experts agree that brand authority is becoming the new link building. Bottom line: quality content with authentic human insights wins, while shortcuts and commodity content get filtered out. Traditional blue links have 5-10 years left, so start building for the AI-first future now! 🚀 ## ✅ Action Items #### WordPress - **Core**: Review content quality standards for AI citation optimization - **Community**: Develop best practices guide for E-E-A-T compliance in WordPress content - **Training**: Create SEO + GEO curriculum incorporating brand strategy and structured data accuracy - **Documentation**: Update SEO guidelines to include AI optimization strategies #### DevRel - **Developer advocacy**: Present case studies on WordPress sites succeeding with AI-first SEO strategies - **Education**: Workshop series on implementing structured data for AI optimization - **Community management**: Moderate discussions on ethical AI optimization practices ## 🧪 Hypotheses - WordPress sites with accurate structured data will achieve higher AI citation rates than those with inconsistent entity information - Content emphasizing specific human experiences will outperform generic informational content in AI-generated answers - Brand authority signals will correlate more strongly with AI recommendation rates than traditional ranking factors - Local SEO tactics will become more critical for small WordPress businesses as AI filters reduce generic content visibility - WordPress sites integrating SEO with broader marketing strategies will maintain better search visibility during the AI transition ### 📊 Methodology - **Structured Data Study**: A/B test WordPress sites with precise vs. generic schema markup, measuring AI citation frequency - **Experience Content Analysis**: Compare AI recommendation rates for content with specific human experiences vs. generic expertise claims - **Brand Authority Correlation**: Track relationship between traditional authority metrics and AI citation rates across WordPress sites - **Local vs. Global Performance**: Monitor small business WordPress site performance using local SEO tactics vs. broader content strategies ### ❓ Questions - How quickly will traditional blue links disappear from search results? - Which structured data types most effectively improve AI recommendation probability? - How can small WordPress businesses build brand authority sufficient for AI citations? - What measurement frameworks best track AI optimization success? - How should WordPress plugin developers balance AI feature adoption with user privacy? ### 🔮 Future Research - Longitudinal studies tracking WordPress site performance through the blue link to AI transition - Analysis of which content formats AI systems prefer for citation - Investigation of cross-platform brand consistency impact on AI recommendations - Research into optimal WordPress technical configurations for AI crawling and processing ### 💡 Implications - **Practice**: WordPress developers must prioritize data accuracy and structured markup in themes and plugins - **Policy**: Need for industry standards around AI optimization ethics and user consent - **Education**: SEO training must expand to include brand strategy and cross-platform consistency - **Funding**: Investment should shift toward tools supporting AI-first content creation and brand authority measurement ### 🧠 Learning Styles Assessment Reading level estimate: Flesch-Kincaid Grade 12.8 - Advanced business/technical communication level appropriate for WordPress professionals. #### 👀 Visual learners - **Present**: Panel discussion format with speaker identification - **Improve**: Add visual timeline of SEO evolution, comparison charts of traditional vs. AI-first strategies, brand authority building diagrams #### 🔊 Aural learners - **Present**: Full video discussion with multiple expert perspectives - **Improve**: Audio-only version for podcast consumption, key quote highlights for social audio #### 🗣️ Verbal learners - **Present**: Clear definitions of SEO vs. GEO, detailed explanations of technical concepts - **Improve**: Glossary of AI optimization terms, analogy-rich explanations for complex concepts #### 🧩 Kinesthetic learners - **Present**: References to specific implementation examples (Yoast features, structured data) - **Improve**: Step-by-step WordPress optimization checklists, hands-on structured data implementation guides #### 🧠 Logical learners - **Present**: Clear cause-and-effect relationships in AI optimization strategies - **Improve**: Decision trees for choosing optimization tactics, performance measurement frameworks #### 🧑‍🤝‍🧑 Social learners - **Present**: Panel discussion format with expert interaction and debate - **Improve**: Community implementation challenges, peer review of optimization strategies #### 🧘‍♀️ Solitary learners - **Present**: Comprehensive transcript for independent study - **Improve**: Self-assessment tools for AI optimization readiness, individual action planning templates ### 📊 Accessibility Assessment #### Screen reader semantics - **Present**: Clear heading structure and speaker identification - **Improve**: Enhanced timestamp navigation, speaker role descriptions #### Keyboard navigation - **Present**: Standard video controls accessible via keyboard - **Improve**: Chapter markers for efficient navigation #### Contrast and readability - **Present**: High contrast video interface - **Improve**: Captions with appropriate contrast ratios #### Media and captions - **Present**: Full transcript provided - **Improve**: Professional captions with speaker identification, downloadable transcript ### 🌍 DEIB Assessment #### Cultural breadth - **Present**: International panel with Spanish and UK perspectives - **Improve**: More diverse geographic representation, translation options #### Inclusive language - **Present**: Professional, jargon-explained terminology - **Improve**: Plain language summaries for non-SEO experts #### Neurodiversity support - **Present**: Clear structure with timestamped sections - **Improve**: Visual section breaks, key takeaway summaries #### Representation - **Present**: Gender-balanced panel with varied professional backgrounds - **Improve**: Include perspectives from emerging markets, different business sizes ### ✅ Logical Validity #### Strong reasoning - **Evidence-based conclusions**: Panel draws from real client experiences and industry data - **Consensus building**: Multiple experts reaching similar conclusions strengthens arguments - **Practical application**: Specific implementation advice grounded in working strategies #### Fallacies - **Appeal to authority**: Minimal - experts support claims with reasoning rather than just credentials - **Hasty generalization**: Some - conclusions about AI's impact based on early data may be premature - **False dichotomy**: Avoided - panel acknowledges nuanced transition rather than binary change #### Tone of voice - **Professional yet accessible**: Expert discussion maintains credibility while remaining understandable - **Cautiously optimistic**: Balanced perspective on opportunities and challenges ### 🛡️ DARVO Analysis No DARVO patterns detected. Panel maintains professional, solution-focused discussion without defensive rhetoric or victim-blaming dynamics. ## 🎯 Conclusion The WordPress SEO community stands at a pivotal transition point where AI is reshaping search optimization from traffic generation to citation earning. Success requires elevating content quality, ensuring data accuracy, and building genuine brand authority through integrated marketing approaches. While the timeline for change remains uncertain, the direction is clear: unique human experience and technical precision will separate thriving WordPress sites from those lost in the commodity content filter. The community's thoughtful, evidence-based approach to this transition—exemplified by Yoast's cautious AI implementation—positions WordPress well for the post-blue-link future. ## 🔄 Refactor Appendix — WordCamp Europe 2026 - Panel: the future of SEO ### 📚 Literature Atoms (H3) #### AI optimization requires brand building over traditional link building > [!quote] ID:rw_panel_001 > "brand is the new backlink like that is what really you need to think about" **Context & use**: - Pam explaining fundamental shift in SEO strategy post-AI - Critical insight for WordPress businesses transitioning optimization approaches **Tags**: #xref #articleseed **Highlight**: [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=1050)  #### Content standards have elevated dramatically with AI filtering > [!quote] ID:rw_panel_002 > "mediocre content is going to be a thing of the past and I can't wait for it" **Context & use**: - Panel consensus on AI raising quality thresholds - Validates investment in high-quality WordPress content strategies **Tags**: #xref #addendum **Highlight**: [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=375)  #### Data accuracy prevents AI hallucination cascades > [!quote] ID:rw_panel_003 > "the more that there is potential to be a hallucination, the more that that hallucination can snowball" **Context & use**: - Jovanna explaining structured data importance for AI systems - Practical WordPress implementation guidance for schema markup **Tags**: #xref #articleseed **Highlight**: [view highlight](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyIMfRz1mDg&t=890)  ### 🧠 Permanent Candidates (H4) #### SEO evolution requires holistic marketing integration **Claim**: Search engine optimization success increasingly depends on coordinated brand strategy across all marketing channels rather than isolated technical tactics. **Evidence pointer**: [[#AI optimization requires brand building over traditional link building]] **Scope & conditions**: Particularly relevant for competitive markets where AI systems filter content quality; less critical for highly specialized niches with limited competition **Links**: - [[Brand Authority Building]] — because extends SEO beyond technical optimization - [[Integrated Marketing Strategy]] — because applies-in content marketing contexts - [[WordPress Marketing Optimization]] — because evidence-for platform-specific approaches  ### ✏️ Fleeting Queue - Research current WordPress structured data plugin landscape for AI optimization features - Investigate measurement frameworks for tracking AI citation success - Analyze Reddit's success factors for human experience content modeling ### → Things 3 (max 2 actions) - [ ] Review existing WordPress sites for structured data accuracy issues — audit #things - [ ] Create brand consistency checklist for cross-platform WordPress content — template #things --- ## Full Transcript [00:22] Uh so let me get started. [00:25] Last session of today uh is the panel on [00:30] SEO. [00:31] What does the future of SEO look like? [00:35] Now uh I have to do the speakers in [00:39] order. See, they're in this order on the [00:42] screen. And it would be highly annoying [00:44] for you if I would place them in a [00:47] different order on the seats because [00:49] then you don't know who's who anymore [00:51] and all your pictures get distorted and [00:53] your AI doesn't understand what you've [00:54] been uh looking at. So that's why we'll [00:58] do it in order. And the first uh [01:01] panelist that I get to introduce is a [01:04] content strategist and SEO at uh Meloano [01:08] Ventures where she blends storytelling [01:11] data and search strategy to help [01:13] WordPress brands stay visible as search [01:15] keeps evolving. Please welcome Jovanna. [01:22] Our second panelist runs a digital [01:25] marketing agency in Santiago de [01:27] Compostella in Spain. specializing in [01:29] SEO and WordPress development. He's been [01:32] navigating Google updates since 2015 and [01:34] describes himself as an AI enthusiasts [01:38] uh enthusiast who believes AI is one of [01:40] the biggest challenges in the SEO the [01:43] SEO industry has ever faced. So, please [01:46] welcome David. [01:52] And it's my personal honor to call to [01:54] the stage a great friend and a former [01:57] colleague. He's principal SEO at Yoast, [01:59] the SEO plug-in with over 13 million [02:02] installs, where he focuses on product [02:04] innovation and brand authority. He [02:07] co-founded the agency Fire and brings 20 [02:10] years of technical SEO and WordPress [02:13] experience to the stage. Please welcome [02:15] Alex Moss. [02:22] Then she is not just the founder and [02:24] president of Pamn Marketing, but also [02:27] the founder of Stealth Search and [02:29] Analytics, Pamman AI, and [02:32] Contelivate.AI. [02:34] She has over two decades of experience [02:36] in SEO, PPC, and AIdriven search. Put [02:39] your hands together for Pam. [02:46] And last but not least, our moderator is [02:49] a marketing strategist and entrepreneur [02:51] from Poland. He spent his caner career [02:54] building brands that cut through noise [02:57] and who's currently building tools [02:59] specifically for the intersection of SEO [03:01] and AI. He'll be guiding a conversation [03:05] with our four panelists and the they all [03:09] live and breathe search visibility for a [03:11] living. So please welcome Casper. [03:19] >> All right. Thank you for a very warm [03:21] welcoming. Uh such a nice conference, [03:23] such a great community. Let's start. Uh [03:26] guys, you're ready? Uh I think um [03:32] I think there is an elephant in the room [03:33] kind of. Of course, everyone's already [03:35] said that AI, right? We are all here. We [03:38] all love um WordPress. we are all in [03:40] this uh together but uh it changes a [03:44] lot. I mean uh recently Google announced [03:46] kind of officially that they are okay [03:49] not moving completely from uh blue links [03:52] but they are focusing much more on uh [03:54] generative answers and uh AI search. [03:59] What does it change for the WordPress uh [04:02] users and what does it change for our [04:04] SEO um [04:07] community? Alex maybe [04:10] >> um I mean you say it's an elephant in [04:12] the room but right now some answers [04:14] might say um it's a woolly mammoth right [04:16] and they might give you a bit of [04:17] hallucination of what's kind of there [04:19] but not I mean as an SEO I don't know [04:23] it's the same stuff different technology [04:25] it's um it's just something different [04:27] that's ingesting content information and [04:30] data to synthesize back to us in reality [04:33] I don't think there's too much dramatic [04:36] change that we need to do if anything I [04:38] think we should take a step back and [04:41] back in the day before AI used to say um [04:44] in other talks the more you think about [04:46] SEO the less you should be doing that [04:49] thing and I think now you know scaling [04:51] content's a really um good example like [04:54] if you think for one second if you're [04:55] questioning how much to scale that you [04:57] shouldn't be doing it and if anything [04:59] you should be just doing as Google say [05:01] unique quality non-commodity content [05:03] intended for humans um agents know that [05:06] they're not the end user they're just a [05:07] gateway way to the end user which is the [05:09] human. Um so it still has to adhere to [05:12] some of those rules. Um that's my [05:15] opinion is is that we should be thinking [05:17] obviously about all the different things [05:18] that are changing and Emma went through [05:20] quite a lot of that before but like she [05:22] said don't just jump on one thing and go [05:24] all in. Just because there's one report [05:27] that says Reddit's quite popular that [05:29] doesn't mean that you know stop [05:30] everything. Let's do Reddit now for the [05:32] next three months and one month in it's [05:34] now a LinkedIn focus. If anything there, [05:36] to me, it's just a social media [05:38] marketing channel. Um, and we should [05:39] have been doing that before LLMs were [05:41] even around. Um, so yeah, do the same [05:44] stuff, but still focus on what that [05:47] gatekeeping really means. [05:49] >> All right. Pretty optimistic uh pretty [05:51] optimistic view. Anyone have a more um [05:54] pessimistic? [05:57] >> Yes, go ahead. [05:59] >> I'm sorry to disagree with some parts. I [06:01] think that SEO have changed a lot. It's [06:03] true that go no is the new SEO and is [06:07] the same no what I think is that it's [06:10] same uh things to do but in different [06:13] proportion but the way of work I think [06:16] is uh really changed [06:19] uh basically I think that till now [06:22] content was king and now user is really [06:26] king they have been years telling that [06:28] user is king but content was was king [06:31] but now I I think the king is really the [06:34] user with AI and we cannot do the same [06:37] type of content we cannot do the because [06:40] they Google have been telling us years [06:43] that the type of content we need to do [06:46] but still we can do the typical SEO [06:49] content and it's working but now it's [06:51] not like that now the AI is really [06:53] making the important content to to work [06:56] no is what I think about that [06:58] >> standards have just gone higher right [07:01] mediocre content is going to be a thing [07:02] of the past and I can't wait for it. [07:05] >> Okay, ladies, anything to to say about [07:08] it? Like maybe let's also uh for those [07:10] who don't know like uh distinguish what [07:13] is the difference between classic [07:14] classic SEO and the new version of the [07:16] SEO GOA? [07:20] Well, I can I mean how I see it is that [07:24] uh basically uh uh more or less uh we [07:28] are now um not looking at SEO uh in [07:32] isolation anymore. I feel that before uh [07:35] SEO teams and SEO specialists were like [07:37] uh really uh looking uh uh like niche [07:41] things and looking at to SEO uh like [07:44] just one part of the puzzle and they [07:48] were not looking the entire picture of [07:49] marketing and today I believe that in [07:52] order to do good SEO geo or whatever and [07:55] be included in AI generated answers uh [07:59] you need to look uh at SEO and marketing [08:02] as a All so you need to approach it as [08:05] like uh uh brand strategy uh product [08:08] marketing SEO tactics we were already [08:11] using but just like upgrade it on much [08:13] higher level and that uh uh I am very [08:16] optimistic about that because that makes [08:18] makes me happy because uh SEO is uh uh [08:22] finally getting the place it deserves. [08:25] It's much uh more quality it's going to [08:28] become. [08:30] >> Yes. Yes. Uh I I think so too and uh as [08:33] you said like uh it means it's more [08:35] holistic right the SEO is kind of going [08:37] to be will have to work together with [08:40] marketing I'm not going to say for the [08:42] first time but usually it was kind of [08:44] separated departments I think it's so [08:46] important that now those departments are [08:48] working together right and um okay so [08:53] what you're suggesting right is that a [08:55] little bit change of the strategy maybe [08:57] more holistic more also appearing more [09:00] in the social media media, Google Maps [09:02] even, right? How well maybe I [09:04] >> I agree completely. I think that Well, [09:07] first of all, everyone's like SEO is [09:08] changing, changing, changing. I've [09:10] always said it, well, it always changes [09:12] a lot, but I've always said I prefer not [09:13] to say that it changes. It it just [09:15] evolves and there's new layers on top to [09:18] tend to. That's just always happened [09:21] over the years. This one was a big new [09:23] layer. It's there's a lot of new stuff [09:25] to tend to. But so as far as the SEO GEO [09:28] thing, I think of SEO as the foundation [09:31] and GEO as the new layer on top, like [09:34] the the new icing on the cake. And [09:37] there's some things that we have to do [09:38] differently with content, namely [09:41] structuring content for machine [09:43] digestibility. Uh but the other and I [09:45] think biggest part of that new layer is [09:47] the branding. Because if you think about [09:49] it, we used to optimize for traffic and [09:52] well, we still do, but when the user [09:55] doesn't have to do the click to find the [09:58] information and synthesize the [09:59] information themselves, when the AI is [10:01] doing that for them, we're really not [10:04] chasing or shouldn't be chasing the [10:07] clicks as much anymore. We should be [10:10] chasing the citation that being [10:12] recommended by the AI summary of the [10:15] information that's out there. And that's [10:17] where it gets so much broader like she's [10:19] saying with the branding like my my [10:21] thing I'm telling everyone now is like [10:23] brand is the new backlink like that is [10:25] what really you need to think about and [10:28] it is hard for us as SEOs because we're [10:31] not branding specialists we have to [10:33] bring those branding specialists in [10:35] right or become a bit of a branding [10:36] specialist ourselves to to point people [10:39] in the right direction but branding is [10:41] just such a bigger thing and it's it's [10:42] about awareness building and and that's [10:46] But that's what you need to do to get [10:47] the AIs to recommend your brand. And the [10:50] good news is everyone's sad about the [10:52] loss of traffic. But the good news is [10:55] that study after study after study is [10:56] showing that the traffic that you do get [10:59] from AI if someone really does dig into [11:02] that citation and click it, it converts [11:04] at so much higher of a rate because the [11:07] AI prevetted your brand already. But so [11:09] that's that's where the branding comes [11:11] in and is is not not too easy for us. [11:14] But [11:15] >> right [11:15] >> it will just become more in integrated [11:17] marketing approach like as said as was [11:19] said perhaps it should have already been [11:22] >> yeah it's opportunity for sure [11:24] definitely uh but then okay let's give [11:26] some uh some raw value to our uh great [11:30] community what actually it means okay [11:32] branding like what a a business owner [11:36] with a uh shop set up on their WordPress [11:39] page should do now to have a chance to [11:42] be appearing in the EI AI. [11:46] >> Go ahead. [11:47] >> Um maybe part of our job now is to [11:49] increase accuracy um via data integrity, [11:52] not just with content, but what's [11:54] underlying as well. So structured data, [11:56] anything to do with entities, that kind [11:58] of thing, the more that there is [12:00] potential to be a hallucination, the [12:02] more that that hallucination can [12:04] snowball and end up with actually an [12:05] answer that is not accurate. um the more [12:08] that we are accurate, the less work it [12:09] has to do as well, the less tokens it [12:11] uses, the happier it'll be to choosing [12:13] you over something else. I think it's [12:15] maybe com in comparison to a slow [12:18] loading website. Um you know, we don't [12:20] have patience to let that page load. We [12:22] would prefer to have a faster website so [12:24] that we can do things faster. This is [12:26] kind of the same thing in terms of the [12:28] data that it's um ingesting. [12:30] >> Yeah, that's actually very good point. I [12:32] had a customer who was complaining that [12:35] AI is keep telling that his company is [12:37] like 15 years old even though he's been [12:39] running this business for like 20 years. [12:41] It's like this is uh where did they get [12:43] from this information? I found it. It [12:46] was right on his blog post somewhere [12:48] down there when they say ah we are [12:51] running business already for 15 years [12:52] and AI 10 year past AI is now telling [12:55] everyone this is a 10-year-old company [12:57] the owner we we found it and uh now we [13:00] are working slowly to fix it right like [13:03] this is exactly the mistakes you were [13:04] talking about is a very good point Ivon [13:06] I wanted to add something to this right [13:08] >> uh yes uh also I'd like to add that uh [13:10] uh again product placement is a big [13:13] thing now uh If you are an SEO who is [13:16] not that much into branding, you can [13:18] consult a branding specialist. But each [13:21] page, each uh uh strategic page nowadays [13:25] should be very speci specific about what [13:29] your product is. Uh who can use it uh [13:33] what problems uh it solves uh uh what [13:37] features uh uh are the most important [13:40] ones uh and to offer some proof of the [13:44] claims that you are doing what you are [13:46] doing. So that's basically because [13:49] if you um if you would like to be found [13:53] by uh and cited uh uh properly by AI, [13:57] you need to feed that information to AI [13:59] and not just on your own uh content and [14:02] pages, but also uh brand marketing, PR, [14:07] uh external uh uh placements uh are [14:11] really important and you need to make [14:14] sure that everything is consistent [14:16] Because uh when AI pulls answers, you [14:19] need that consistency. Uh so when it uh [14:22] uh uh answers to a prompt, uh it gives [14:26] the most accurate answer. [14:28] >> Yeah, this is a very good point, right? [14:29] Because like as a social media agencies [14:32] like usually we're optimizing for each [14:35] um uh each platform, each different [14:38] different language, right? But this is [14:40] actually kind of hurting us right now [14:42] with the AI recommendations. Yeah. like [14:44] because we supposed to be very [14:47] direct and very clear on what our [14:50] business is doing, not just looking cool [14:53] on social media. Yeah, David, you wanted [14:55] to add something, right? [14:56] >> Yeah, I wanted to I wanted to answer the [14:57] question. No, what can we do? I think a [15:00] classic on SEO that is it depends [15:02] because uh I think it's the strategy [15:05] change a lot if you have a consolidated [15:08] uh good branded web page with authority [15:12] or you are starting which is sometimes [15:14] the the main issue when you are starting [15:16] is what can I do for being there because [15:19] my services are commodity what we need [15:21] to run away with AI is to is to be the [15:24] commodity we need to be unique content [15:26] our web page need to be unique if you [15:28] are a brand, good brand. You can be [15:30] commodity because you are the first one [15:31] anyway. But if you are a small, you need [15:34] to point to the unique content, [15:37] something special you have. And also mix [15:40] it with all your marketing to to be [15:43] mentioning everything. You need to do [15:44] something special, something very [15:46] valuable, valuable to the to to your to [15:50] your customer, to your potential [15:51] customers. and the typical SEO work [15:55] instead of doing instead of doing it [15:58] more for the agent, I think we need to [15:59] go to the local SEO to the like pointing [16:04] to get visits the classic SEO content [16:08] through local through pointing very [16:10] tight and at the same time making unique [16:13] content. try to get the special, the [16:16] viral, the social also for getting that [16:19] that power that branded that that brand [16:22] that you are building. No. [16:23] >> Yeah. Yeah. Speaking of unique content, [16:25] I know it's tempting to just use CHGPT, [16:27] right, to generate your articles, uh, [16:29] post and everything, but this is not the [16:32] best strategy, right, guys? I was going [16:34] to piggyback off of the unique content [16:36] comment and say that one thing that [16:38] everybody should be doing right now is [16:40] listening to what Google told us to do [16:43] when it updated its quality raider [16:44] guidelines right after basically right [16:46] after chatbt came out and people started [16:49] flooding the internet with AI generated [16:51] content. They updated the quality raider [16:53] guidelines and I took a well I attempted [16:54] to take a screenshot of every every [16:56] instance where they added the word [16:57] experience and I ran out of I was trying [17:00] to put it all on one slide and I ran out [17:01] of room. There was like 40 I don't know [17:03] I lost count around 40 or 50 times that [17:05] the quality raider guidelines now [17:06] reference experience the new E right it [17:09] was EAT expertise authoritiveness [17:12] trustworthiness that they've always told [17:14] us to demonstrate in our content and [17:16] with that update they add the new E and [17:19] now it's EAT and that new E is the [17:22] experience. Uh, but I think that's being [17:24] like grossly under interterpreted and or [17:27] or I don't know. It's they they [17:30] mentioned it a lot, but they didn't do a [17:31] good job defining what they mean by [17:33] that. And uh like so because I have [17:36] clients will say like, well, what does [17:37] that mean? If I'm talking about my [17:39] experience, I do. I have a by line at [17:40] the bottom of every blog post that says [17:42] my experience. I have done da da for da [17:44] da. Like no, I don't think that's what [17:46] they're going for. They're going for [17:48] uniqueness in the content. So, how do [17:50] you add uniqueness into the content by [17:53] talking about your human experiences [17:56] that led to you getting your expertise, [17:59] authoritiveness, and trustworthiness? [18:01] So, I've been preaching to clients talk [18:02] about like times, places, events, [18:06] things, projects that you did like how [18:08] did you get your experience specifically [18:10] where, when, and how did you get this [18:14] expertise? What experiences led to the [18:16] expertise? And that's where I think the [18:18] uniqueness thing it could be clarified a [18:21] little bit more. [18:22] >> Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, um, [18:24] AI pays much more attention into, uh, to [18:27] the outer, I would say, right? Like [18:29] compared to a classic SEO, of course, [18:31] like um, the website have to be great [18:33] for the for the Google to show it up. [18:36] But now also the out shouldn't be [18:40] unverified. Shouldn't be this should be [18:41] a profile. Okay, who wrote this? You [18:43] know, this is not just our company wrote [18:45] this. No, this is a expert in our [18:48] company who wrote this, right? I think [18:50] so. Um, Alex, uh, a question for you [18:54] like what plug-in who we all love and [18:57] use every day, what you as a company, [19:00] what are you doing, uh, with this kind [19:03] of like changing world order, I would [19:05] say, in the SEO [19:08] >> treading carefully. What I don't want us [19:11] to do is go gung-ho, kind of like the [19:13] Reddit situation, and just going they've [19:15] said this, so we must do this [19:17] immediately. Um, I think the the dust is [19:20] nowhere near settled on this whole [19:22] ecosystem. So, I think it's a bit risky [19:25] just to do things just because someone [19:27] said it this week. Um, and to see if [19:29] there's actually a use case for it. But [19:32] also, Yoast is about, you know, the good [19:34] of the web as well. So um while some [19:37] things may not be you know hugely [19:39] adopted for example or or widespread or [19:41] globally adopted with all the platforms [19:43] it's still something that may be a good [19:45] um proposal to the web that may help in [19:47] like NL web was a good example of that [19:50] um you know aggregating schema into one [19:52] endpoint. It's just making things a bit [19:54] more um efficient right for for an agent [19:57] to look at things. That's not to say [19:59] they've all adopted this just because we [20:01] did it, but it's a good proposal out [20:02] there and we've got, you know, over 10 [20:04] million sites that can do that. Um, and [20:06] again, it's not optin. If we use [20:08] LLMs.txt [20:10] as an example, we didn't that was [20:12] opt-in, not opt out. And I know that [20:14] other unnamed plugins have done that and [20:16] other platforms have done that and [20:18] changed their minds and and again been a [20:20] bit wishy-washy and um non-consistent. [20:23] Um, I just want to make sure that we're [20:24] doing the right thing because it isn't [20:26] just a hundred sites that, you know, we [20:28] can potentially power. It's millions and [20:30] um, we want to be careful with that. [20:32] >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that this is the right [20:34] answer. I wanted to hear that because I [20:36] am using your your plugin. So, [20:39] >> uh, yes, I I think this is actually um a [20:42] pretty good point because um, we all [20:44] kind of like see this on on Tik Toks and [20:47] already like this tricks, you know, how [20:49] to trick AI to show me somewhere. And I [20:52] think it's pretty tempting for us as a [20:54] business owners to like kind of like you [20:56] know buy used ready accounts and then [21:00] you know or quora and play with this [21:03] guys does it work does it going to make [21:06] more harm than good what's the opinion [21:10] go ahead [21:10] >> uh well uh the thing I like the most [21:14] about recent changes is that the fact [21:16] that it is getting increasingly hard to [21:19] trick the system and uh you shouldn't [21:21] didn't do that. I mean, I I was against [21:24] it even 10 years ago when it was like uh [21:27] every SEO was just looking for short [21:30] shortcuts and uh things to do to, you [21:32] know, trick the user, trick the system. [21:35] And uh I think that's a really really [21:37] bad thing to do. Uh it was before, it's [21:40] even worse now. So, you just need to do [21:45] uh SEO, right? Do quality SEO. Do not [21:48] try to trick the system. Invest time. [21:51] invest resource resources do things uh [21:54] at a higher level. uh pay attention to [21:57] what the user wants to read to see pay [22:00] attention to your product to your [22:01] marketing in general and the results [22:04] will be there because as uh I think Alex [22:07] said or Pam the the quality of traffic [22:11] today if you are doing things right yes [22:13] the traffic is much less uh than than it [22:17] was before but the quality of traffic [22:19] the quality of of uh leads you get or [22:23] conversions it's much greater today than [22:26] it was before. So yeah, [22:29] >> I want to encourage people to think [22:30] about the Reddit thing a little bit [22:32] more. Like why is that considered a [22:35] hack? Well, think about it related as it [22:37] relates to what we were saying before [22:38] about unique content talking about human [22:40] experience. Reddit is threads uh full of [22:44] human experience. They're real humans [22:47] talking about their real experiences. [22:49] Why do you think AI likes that so much? [22:50] AI is engineered to trace information to [22:53] original sources, not to play a game of [22:55] telephone by reynthesizing other [22:57] synthesized answers. It's hunting for [22:59] that uniqueness of humans sharing their [23:01] experience. So why does Reddit work so [23:03] well? I think that's why. And you don't [23:05] need to buy used Reddit accounts and do [23:08] it like the hack way. Just do it in your [23:10] own content. [23:12] >> Exactly. [23:13] >> Go ahead, David. I think I think that uh [23:16] some tricks are there and you cannot use [23:19] it too much [23:21] but there is a point in the tricks I was [23:24] talking before about about SEO with uh [23:27] in Google spot with with Daniel Sullivan [23:30] he he was there it's you need to follow [23:33] him it's important and I was asking him [23:36] about PR [23:39] typical campaigns about it's not link [23:42] campaign but is brand campaign saying [23:44] many times is all links that are no [23:46] follow but that they are working very [23:48] good positioning in the AI and what is [23:52] what about that because we will also [23:54] always have a official official answer [23:57] to this like no don't use this don't do [24:00] this only for positional reasons but at [24:03] the same time when you are doing that [24:05] your brand is known by the people and [24:07] you can start the you are making a fake [24:10] movement that is starting the real [24:13] movement So I think the tricks you [24:15] cannot abuse but you can use sometimes [24:18] controlling [24:19] >> use responsibly. Very well. That's uh [24:22] that's a good point. Uh okay. Uh the [24:24] panel is called the future as SEO. I [24:27] think we all universally agree that SEO [24:30] is not dead. We are on uh working on it [24:33] and uh okay but that's now and that's [24:37] let's say in the next few years. But how [24:40] about 5 years, 8 years, 10 years, 15 [24:43] years even, right? Like because Google [24:46] is kind of openly suggesting that they [24:48] will be promoting uh [24:52] the AI answers over the links. Do you [24:56] guys think that at some point we're not [24:59] going to have the blue links? [25:02] >> 100%. [25:03] >> Definitely not. [25:04] >> They're going dying. [25:06] >> Consider them dead already. [25:07] >> Okay. Okay. Any different opinions down [25:10] there? [25:11] >> No, I agree completely. That was an easy [25:13] question. [25:14] >> Blue links forever. [25:17] >> More futuristic outlook I think is that [25:20] right now humans still click and go to [25:23] websites whether it's through 10 blue [25:25] links or through the citations. [25:28] That's because the AI overview is just [25:31] generative AI. It's just generating a [25:32] summary. But agentic AI is when the AI [25:37] does things for you, right? And I think [25:39] that's the next big wave is your AI [25:41] agent is going to go look at all the [25:43] websites and compare all the options and [25:45] then you just tell it, oh yeah, I like [25:47] the sound of that one. Go buy that for [25:49] me and it's going to go buy it for you. [25:51] I mean, that's already happening with [25:52] the whole um uh UCP, I think it's [25:54] called, the universal commerce protocol, [25:56] right? And the MCP is like it's so the [25:58] AIS can do things for you. So I think [26:00] the the 5 10 year outlook is humans [26:04] don't go to websites anymore. Websites [26:05] don't even need to look pretty anymore. [26:07] They just need to be the transaction [26:09] interface basically the API for these [26:13] agents. [26:14] >> It depends. [26:15] >> Okay, [26:15] >> it depends because think of it about [26:18] shopping. Me personally, if I go into a [26:19] clothes shop and someone immediately [26:22] walks up to me and goes, "Would you like [26:23] any help?" I'm in my head, "No, I I can [26:26] try clothes on. I've tried clothes on [26:28] before. or I know how to do it. Um, I [26:29] just want to be left alone. But maybe if [26:32] I want to buy a car, I do want someone [26:34] to approach me once I'm comfortable to [26:36] do so. Right now, I would not purchase a [26:40] car through an agentic platform because [26:43] it's a it's a big investment. I want to [26:45] know much more about it. Pair of shoes, [26:48] yeah, it can buy it on my behalf, [26:50] especially because it knows my shoe [26:51] size, my preferences. It it'll have [26:54] context on previous clothes I bought [26:55] that may complement that thing. And that [26:58] will all be again because of the way [27:00] structured data um is is populated well [27:02] especially for merchant center it'll [27:04] know so much about things that I bought [27:06] and what's compatible with it. Um so [27:08] again it does depend the role of [27:10] websites I personally I believe will [27:12] change in the future. Um and it's 15 [27:16] years you were saying what what's going [27:17] to happen 15 years from now. Anyone who [27:19] claims they know what's going to happen [27:20] in 3 years is talking bull hockey and um [27:24] not to be trusted because no one does. I [27:26] mean, even in the last 24 hours, the [27:27] anthropic co-founder on BBC was like, I [27:30] think we need to put the brakes on this [27:32] technology. Like, even the guy who [27:34] created Claude does not know what's [27:37] going to happen in maybe months from [27:39] now. Um, is that scary? I don't I [27:42] personally think it's an opportunity. I [27:43] think people like us are a bit valuable [27:45] in the way that we were when social [27:46] media first came out. Um, I don't know [27:48] if anyone was around for that or showing [27:50] my age. Personally, I I made the [27:52] Facebook page for ITV, which is a [27:54] national television station in the UK, [27:57] because I'm the only one who had a [27:58] Facebook account at that point. No one [28:00] knew what the hell was going on. Um, and [28:02] that was a bit slower. Now, everyone [28:03] believes that they're the master of an [28:05] LLM, which I don't believe is true and [28:08] they think that it's everything's a new [28:09] way of doing things. And again, if you [28:11] just step back and everything we've all [28:12] said now, it's all been around for 10, [28:15] 20, 30, 50 years, you know, before the [28:18] internet existed. This is all word of [28:20] mouth, right? Link building is just [28:22] third party perspectives. That's all it [28:24] is. Just a new bit of technology to feed [28:27] into um just to be again accurate, [28:30] honest. [28:31] >> That's true. But it's always fun to [28:33] guess. No. Any guesses there? [28:35] >> One thing about that I think that is [28:37] true. You are not going to buy a car [28:39] through the agent. The agent is not [28:41] going to buy for you. But then it will [28:42] make your path, your schedule, [28:44] everything, your appointments, and you [28:46] will have in your calendar where to go [28:49] to talk about the car. [28:50] >> Oh, of course. [28:52] >> The links are not there. [28:53] >> Oh, no, of course. And that's where [28:55] things like WebMP will be very useful to [28:57] do those things. Again, agentically, [28:58] it'll know all my details and be able to [29:00] put that appointment um automatically um [29:02] which will be very nice, but I still [29:04] want to see it with my own eyes or maybe [29:06] VR goggles, I don't know. [29:09] Uh yeah and uh I agree completely that [29:12] there are plenty of things that we as [29:13] humans like to see for ourselves and uh [29:16] we like to verify them especially if we [29:18] are about to spend a lot of money or [29:20] invest uh a lot of time resources [29:23] emotion whatever in in something we need [29:25] to see it and it for now it looks like [29:28] it can it will not be replaced but I [29:31] remember once uh AI generative answers [29:33] appeared first for the first time uh [29:36] people in the first like one or one to [29:38] three months they were um avoiding the [29:41] answer they were uh uh a large amount of [29:45] people were like uh no I don't want to [29:47] uh read that uh some robot uh wrote that [29:51] I don't trust it enough to read it in [29:54] like maybe two or three months things [29:56] changed drastically and now everybody [29:59] uses LLMs and reads AI overviews so yeah [30:03] we are we we cannot be certain what [30:06] future will hold Definitely. [30:09] >> Of course, we're all playing and [30:11] guessing. I guess I am the only one who [30:12] is buying stuff just because Chad GPT [30:14] recommended me. Uh yeah. Uh okay. What [30:19] what about the measuring the results? [30:21] Because I think this is a little bit of [30:23] a challenge nowadays uh for us as as you [30:25] all mentioned that uh it's um it dropped [30:28] a little bit right the uh entrance on [30:31] our websites. Uh but then how can we [30:34] measure mentions right of of AI? Is [30:37] there any any tools that you [30:39] particularly like or something that you [30:42] would recommend? [30:44] >> Excel [30:46] like what's the bottom line? What's the [30:48] why is the business there? What what's [30:49] the goal for away from just SEO? What [30:52] what is the point? Um because clicks may [30:56] have brought in say 100 visitors and got [30:59] you a 3% conversion rate, but maybe you [31:01] only needed 20 visitors and you can [31:04] still get a lot better conversion rate [31:06] of those three conversions. It's um I [31:10] think that that was low-end traffic [31:11] anyway. Kind of like ranking from page 5 [31:14] to 10 and reporting on that. What was [31:16] what's the point in that? It's just a [31:17] benchmark of something to improve. No [31:19] one was ever No one no one has ever [31:21] gone, you know what? I went to page six [31:23] and I liked you and and and now I'm your [31:26] customer. It didn't work that way. Um [31:28] but again, it's it's um it's going to be [31:30] a bit relative over time, I think. [31:33] >> All right. So, uh quality over quantity [31:36] and we are not dead yet. SEO is still [31:39] well and alive. Guys, thank you so much [31:42] for the for the panel for your opinions [31:45] and yeah, hopefully see you next year. [31:47] >> Thank you. [31:48] >> Thank you. [31:48] >> Thank you.  ## Highlights - brand is the new backlink like that is what really you need to think about - Note: 📚 AI optimization requires brand building over traditional link building · - Pam explaining fundamental shift in SEO strategy post-AI - Critical insight for WordPress businesses transitioning optimization approaches · #atom/literature/h1 - mediocre content is going to be a thing of the past and I can't wait for it - Note: 📚 Content standards have elevated dramatically with AI filtering · - Panel consensus on AI raising quality thresholds - Validates investment in high-quality WordPress content strategies · #atom/literature/h2 - the more that there is potential to be a hallucination, the more that that hallucination can snowball - Note: 📚 Data accuracy prevents AI hallucination cascades · - Jovanna explaining structured data importance for AI systems - Practical WordPress implementation guidance for schema markup · #atom/literature/h3 - SEO evolution requires holistic marketing integration - Note: [[Brand Authority Building]] — because extends SEO beyond technical optimization · - [[Brand Authority Building]] — because extends SEO beyond technical optimization · #atom/zettel/z1 - Minimal - experts support claims with reasoning rather than just credentials - Note: 🔍 Fallacy: Appeal to Authority #fallacy/appeal-to-authority - Some - conclusions about AI's impact based on early data may be premature - Note: 🔍 Fallacy: Hasty Generalization #fallacy/hasty-generalization