XO Ruby Is Hitting the Road  ## Metadata - Author: [[Changelog Master Feed]] - Full Title: XO Ruby Is Hitting the Road - Category: #podcasts - URL: https://share.snipd.com/episode/ac29e1f8-64b0-4c72-92ff-1badf4b460a0 ## Document Notes ## Highlights - **Ruby Renaissance With Hotwire** - Jim sees a Ruby renaissance driven by Hotwire and unified codebases for web and mobile. - He believes this restores some of Rails' original promise of rapid, joyful development. Transcript: Jim Remsik Still building our business on Ruby and definitely there is a bit of a renaissance. In fact, we'll get to the conferences and whatnot, but one of the bits of feedback that we've been getting from people who haven't been focused on the community is, oh, yeah, that was Really cool in 2010. ([Time 0:04:09](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9b02fa26-8260-43ab-9803-a056f3b92517)) - **From DotNet To Hashrocket** - Jim joined Hashrocket after interviewing in Florida and moving his family there within months. - He stayed four years, then brought lessons back to Madison and later started his own consultancy. Transcript: Jim Remsik Uh so hash rocket was a the the first boutique rails consultancy um and so we started in i actually got hired in 2007 before hash rocket was a thing uh there was a client involved and then They decided to build a consultancy out of the team that they had built to develop that software. So we became HashRocket and, you know, sort of early startup days, lots of late nights and lots of alcohol and things like that. I, I've, I've grown up. Um, but yeah, it was a, it was an incredible time. We had people from, you know, various, uh, backgrounds all over the U S that sort of assembled in Jacksonville beach, Florida. And, uh, we're just, uh, very excited about, uh, the technology, you know, it was also right around the time that GitHub started and Twitter. And, um, so it was early, early and pretty fantastic days. Um, yeah. Jerod Santo Heroku Adam, what was your, how did you know Hashrocket? How did you know Jim? Adam Stacoviak Well, I, I was, uh, an up and coming Rubyist. I wanted to work there so desperately. I was like, y'all are so cool. Like the Hashrocket logo was the coolest, still is the coolest. It literally was the Ruby hash rocket. Just all the right vibes were there. I actually met Obie Fernandez, um, who is, uh, I think a DJ and now a dad and grown up like the rest of us and stuff. And, uh, we've actually wanted to get him on the pod a couple of times. Cause I think he's kind of bullish on like Ruby and AI. And I've been meaning to catch up with him personally in podcasts professionally. But I knew of HashRocket mainly through friends. I met Alan Branch and Steven Bristol and others and I really don't know how I connected to HashRocket. I just know that when I went to Future Web Apps, which was Ryan Carson's conference for web apps, which was a big, big deal then. This is, I think, in 2008, 2009. It was in Florida. And as a podcast, you get invited places. And so Ryan invited us out there. I think we actually had to pay our own flight and hotel, Jared. So we've grown up a little bit since then. But I was happy to go anywhere. I was invited at that time because I had nobody. I had no network. I was at the ground floor. And even that era was like, I think a lot of the networks and connections I've built on, Jim, you're included in that, since then, really. And it was kind of funny because when we're trying to get to the conference, we had a, I think we had a rental car or Alan had a rental car and we were kids. Like we were, when I was here, we were kids. We were just young and we were stupid. We did all, we did whatever we wanted. It was just a whole different world then. And, uh, Obi was in the car. And of course I'm like fanboying because Obi's cool and we're podcasting in the car. And it's just like, it was nothing like it is now, but it was so raw and so different. It was like, what is a podcast? You know, it was so weird. We were walking around with like short microphones wired to this thing. And just like, it was, it was epic. But that's how I met Obi. We walked the beach in Miami beach at night and just talked. We got drunk. We did things we probably shouldn't do. Like when you're young. And I really wanted to work at Hashdruck because I was like, you guys are the coolest. You're doing the coolest stuff. And if I come there for a month or do like an engagement, they call them engagements. I can get 25 grand for an engagement, which would seem like a million dollars to me. And I get to work with some of the most highest caliber talent out there. I'm like, even if I'm not as good as they are, I will learn something through this, through this engagement. I never got in, I never got hired. It was so close. They did want, Obi did want me on a project, but it just didn't work out. And I think I got another gig and, you know, just moved on or whatever, but that's how I knew Obi. I think Obi is kind of famous to some degree in the early ruby days for sure he's written books he's given talks he's led the way in a lot of cases and i think at some point obi personally kind Of like stepped back from the light i don't know really i'm not sure of his story you may know jim because you work with him more closely but that's how i was connected and how i knew new ob And how I knew hash rocket. And it was just such a, like, these guys are rock stars, Jared, you know, this, like they were rock stars, man, back in those days. Jim Remsik Yeah, certainly. Uh, Stephen Bristol, uh, if you were tied to him, uh, he and I were good friends. Um, and he was local to Jacksonville. And so he was on the other side of the city. So probably 45 minutes away, but and a Rubyist and, uh, a famous, everything was built on ruby famous in his own right rubyist and uh yes um he and alan um were you know just delightful people I i still go down every time i'm in florida i try and get over to panama city and visit alan who is now a mayor of panama city beach i heard that yeah so cool so cool yeah but we uh so the the way That i got to hash track it was um i worked at the state of wisconsin department of financial institutions i was in dot net stack and uh i saw this blog about or i saw this video about building A blog in 15 minutes and then um me and my my co-worker started diving head deep into rails on the side. He was a little bit more fluid than I. And so he saw a post from Obi saying that they were looking to hire people. And he literally just flew down and showed up on his doorstep. That was John Larkowski. Adam Stacoviak That thing brings a bill. Jim Remsik Was that like Obi's right-hand person and like just in every detail of hashrocket yep yep yeah okay and so uh he came down there uh they were pairing all the time and uh they had four people And then one of them uh wound up stepping away and so they needed a fourth and john was like i know a guy and so i went down and interviewed, I spent a week in Florida interviewing. Again, made some mistakes, but came back home, told my wife that we're moving cross country and went back shortly thereafter. We pack up the house and six months later, we were living in Florida. Wow. How long were you there? Are you still there? I'm not still there. We lived there for four years or so. And then the call of coming back home was a little bit too loud. So now we're back in Wisconsin. ([Time 0:05:03](https://share.snipd.com/snip/800f407f-5f0f-43df-9183-005a454582d4)) - **Prioritize In-Person Serendipity** - Do prioritize in-person events because they create serendipitous connections you can't easily replicate online. - Use small single-track gatherings to maximize chance to meet everyone in the room. Transcript: Jim Remsik And that's a little bit the genesis of the events that we're looking forward to over the next two months, which is XORUV. The feedback that I constantly get from meetup organizers is that it's hard to get people to show up every month. And so like if they get a good speaker or if they get, you know, there'sidence with uh something that's happening in town like they'll get spikes but then uh attendance is is up and down And um it's easier in a in a place like new york or chicago or wherever but for the smaller towns it's a little bit more difficult and it's just it's so easy to not put on your shoes. It's so easy to not leave, leave the house. I can go on YouTube and find a thousand, uh, talks to watch or what have you. Um, and I think the, the big thing, and Adam, you alluded to this earlier. The big thing for me is it's that in-person connecting with people. It is the ability to sit down. One of my favorite stories from a conference was talking to an attendee from Madison Ruby. And they were so excited to get to sit down with Tenderlove. And they talked about America's Next Top Model for like an hour. And it's like, you would never think, uh, looking at, at Aaron's, uh, public persona that that's what the thing that he, that you're going to wind up in a conversation about. Um, so I think there, there's so many surprises that happen when you talk to people, uh, face to face or, you know, I really want to talk to Adam, but he's talking to somebody else over there. So I'll talk to Jared in the meantime. Turns out Jared and I have, have, uh, things in common that we didn't know. And so there's this serendipity that's possible in in-person events that just, you cannot replicate in, uh, online events. ([Time 0:15:14](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ef053961-fd57-4a11-b9ea-40133430b6da)) - **Keep Conferences Small And Memorable** - Do design events for 60 people to ensure attendees can meet everyone and keep venues interesting. - Avoid hotel ballrooms and prefer unique spaces that invite conversation and atmosphere. Transcript: Jim Remsik They're single day, single track conferences, right? I mean, for about 60 people. And that's the sort of, that's the size where you can actually meet everybody in the room. And we're also able to, we're not going to be in beige boxes, right? We're not going to be in hotel ballrooms. We're going to be in, in Chicago, we've got a loft like warehouse space with soaring ceilings in atlanta it's a small black box theater and in new orleans we're in a i should really look Up how old this place is but it's called the marini opera house it used to be the holy trinity church and it is just uh every bit a new orleansleans church which is it's a white brick building But it looks really gritty and dirty on the outside you get inside and it's just it's it's fantastic and i'm super excited about that that venue in particular in portland we've got an Industrial chic warehouse space. And we're bringing projector PA stage backdrops. Pretty much the entire conference is going to go into the back of the vehicle and drive from city to city. And so I've got 7,500 miles of driving ahead of me in the next two months. Um, and with the goal of, you know, we could go into any space if you got power seats and, uh, and bathrooms, um, we'll be able to put on an event. That was the thought. ([Time 0:20:19](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dc4d593f-67ca-4e2d-9e5d-5f36823d9458)) - **Remove Barriers With Local Low-Cost Events** - Do lower attendee cost and localize events to reduce travel barriers and increase accessibility. - Aim for $100 tickets and local venues so people can attend without hotels or weeks off work. Transcript: Jim Remsik But there was a gap that we saw, which was, what if you didn't have to travel? You didn't have to take a plane. What if you didn't have to drive eight hours or whatever? What if there was no hotel involved? And what if the ticket, instead of being like $300 per day, was $100? And that was what we were trying to solve for. ([Time 0:24:51](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9f1c47fe-e713-4ed2-a88e-0bfa393c5890)) - **Losing Money Taught Tough Lessons** - Jim once lost $9,000 on a Madison Ruby but used a refund and price cut to generate publicity. - He learned to lower financial risk and to refund early buyers when needed to preserve goodwill. Transcript: Jim Remsik And so I jumped behind the table and I'm like, I can handle t-shirts. Tell me your size. I'll get you to the shirt size that you need after you get registered and whatnot. And so that was, I've shared this story a number of times and also with them, but I was like, man, if these guys can do it, I could do this as well. And so we've done Madison Ruby for about 10 instances, including last year. And it was at the last one where I was just like, this is really risky. Like our expenses are significant and what would make them easier to pull off would be if we can lower the risk profile. So we're able to cover all of our venues and cover some of our expenses. And then working with our local sponsors, if we are able to reach our sponsorship goals, we have everything covered. And then any of the ticket sales is on top of that. We haven't hit all of our sponsorship goals yet, but I'm positive that we'll get pretty close. And people can, if they don't have to plan a trip, they can buy a ticket the night before and still make the show. And so we're going to cities where there are significant Ruby user groups. There are just a significant population. And we've tried to lower the risk at every stage so that we're not left holding the bag. When we ran our first Madison Ruby, I personally lost $9,000. I'm going to adjust that to say my wife and I, who's sitting in the other room right now, lost $9,000. She appreciates that. Yeah. We eventually figured that out and got it back. That was also the only time I ever wound up on the front page of Hacker News. Because we cut the ticket price from $4.95 down to $2.50 and said, we're refunding everybody who bought at that $495 price. We're refunding you down to $250 and got a bunch of press out of it. ([Time 0:27:07](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b7742b3d-bc74-43a0-aa48-805916f7186a)) - **Lower Event Risk With Sponsors** - Do secure foundational sponsors to reduce financial risk and cover core event costs. - Then use local sponsors and ticket sales to cover extras rather than relying solely on tickets. Transcript: Jim Remsik And then working with our local sponsors, if we are able to reach our sponsorship goals, we have everything covered. And then any of the ticket sales is on top of that. We haven't hit all of our sponsorship goals yet, but I'm positive that we'll get pretty close. And people can, if they don't have to plan a trip, they can buy a ticket the night before and still make the show. And so we're going to cities where there are significant Ruby user groups. There are just a significant population. And we've tried to lower the risk at every stage so that we're not left holding the bag. ([Time 0:28:01](https://share.snipd.com/snip/06808e28-ce6a-4fa9-842b-1615de64a055)) - **Curate Talks For A Traveling Tour** - Do curate early schedules for multi-city events instead of relying on a single large CFP. - Use local sign-up links for remaining slots to surface community speakers per city. Transcript: Jim Remsik So, yes, that is true, which is why we didn't do a traditional CFP for this. I largely curated the talks for the first couple of events. If you go to the schedule, if there's a slot where there's not a speaker, there is a link there to sign up and say that you'd like to join. Because again, the hope is that we'll, you know, either we or somebody else will do this again next year. And so we really want to find out where people are. So that's part of it. And then the failures cascade, right? And so thankfully, in the first round, we actually lost our venue in Chicago once and had to go to a backup. ([Time 0:37:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/71da9ecc-d695-4ee7-9a19-e769da5895c1)) - **One Venue Fallthrough Cascaded** - XORuby lost a Chicago venue once and had to reschedule multiple cities as a result. - Jim used an excellent backup venue but highlighted cascade risk when running consecutive events. Transcript: Jim Remsik And while I'm extremely happy with the backup, in fact, that's what happened with Madison plus Ruby the first year. And we wound up with this amazing venue that we really loved. But that meant that we had to go back through and reschedule all of our events in, or both of our events in Atlanta and New Orleans after that venue fell through. So that is a risk in doing these sort of in series. Typically, you get into a workflow of, you know, there's a build to a conference and then you're done and you get to rest. ([Time 0:38:36](https://share.snipd.com/snip/bd75514b-f5fe-4610-b86d-681c562ec5f0)) - **Documenting The 7,500-Mile Road Trip** - Jim plans to document the road trip with a mobile camera rig and small film crew. - He'll collect stop stories and small moments like quirky roadside attractions for a DIY film. Transcript: Jim Remsik I do have a little, uh, mobile camera rig, um, like a cage to put her on my, my mobile camera. Um, and I've been talking with some, some filmmakers, like, even just behind-the stuff. Like, if I'm driving past the largest ball of twine in the country, we'll stop and take a picture. We're also, D&S Simple is sponsoring. And one of their mascots is a, like, in the write-up that they have about their mascot. It says that he's always up for a road trip. And so I'm going to try and get them to send me a plushie to ride shotgun with me. But yeah, we're, we're going to try and do something. We're also working with conferees, trying to get them to record all these events. ([Time 0:40:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/36057d58-3455-4e30-b412-8cfebfa68dca)) - **Recruit Volunteers With Free Tickets** - Do volunteer-incentives to staff events and give free entry for a few hours of help. - Overstaff with volunteers to create pathways into the community and reduce labor costs. Transcript: Jim Remsik If you want to attend, there is not yet, but by the time this airs, there'll be a volunteer link as well. We're going to overstaff with volunteers. So if you wanted to come to the event and you want to give up an hour or two at the beginning or end of the conference to volunteer, we'll let you in for free. ([Time 0:46:08](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9ec70a38-a552-4ef8-a864-98797fecfb63)) - **Design For Connection And Local Food** - Do introduce attendees to each other and recruit local connectors to prevent newcomers from feeling lost. - Offer $25 lunch credits and encourage exploring local restaurants instead of centralized catering. Transcript: Jim Remsik Like a DNA thing for your events? That that's an excellent question um we always try and uh get people into conversations with other people at the conference and like that sort of naturally happens at a hallway track If you're going to your first time conference this happened to me back in you know i got sent to a dot net conference out in Vegas. Um, and I went to like, uh, methodically went to talks that I thought could help my, my company, my career, whatever. Um, and what I understand now is that it's the people like that's the benefit. That's the value. Um, you can get connected to people that are going to, uh, help you at work. You can get connected to people who you could potentially hire for your job. You can get connected to people that are going to wind up driving in a car down to future web apps and fanboying over somebody else in the car. Adam Stacoviak I'm telling you. I mean, so you mentioned... It was Obi. I couldn't help it. He's the coolest. Jim Remsik You mentioned Stephen Bristol in that conversation earlier. And that was a lesson that I learned from him is we would walk around at a conference and he would always find like a wallflower or somebody who wasn't doing anything. And he would just bring them into the fold. Adam Stacoviak Yes, he was. And he wouldn let you go. He grabbed you not physically, sometimes physically, but he, from his, who he, his tractor beam, like he was like a tractor beam. Get over here. You know, you get into this conversation. Don't you be isolated over there. And he would, he would force you out of your shell. He really would. I know he did to me. Jim Remsik I was going to say, then you realize that, Oh, that's why I'm here. Right. Like he did that to me. Jerod Santo Yeah. Jim Remsik Um, yeah. And so that is another thing that I, you know, just try to always make sure that, uh, if there are people who seem like they're lost or seem like they're, they don't know what to do, like Make an introduction. I can't, especially as a host, I can't like sit there and talk with everybody all day long, but I can connect them with somebody who's going to make sure that they're seen after and introduced To people and have a proper conference experience. Um, another thing that, uh, that I think is inherent in the way that we've done things is I will always look for people who've never spoken before. Um, I remember, uh, Nell Shamrell, uh, gave her first talk at Addison Ruby, I think in 2012. Um, and there was something about Nell that caused me to want to do that and but I she had never spoken before so I didn't have anything necessarily to base that on other than she was a great Person and turns out she had a drama background and she just absolutely delivered her talk and probably the best talk of that conference. And so even at RailsConf this year, the last RailsConf, I had somebody come up to our booth. And I was like, do you want to speak? And she's like, you know, you're not the first person to ask me that. And so that was Tia. She's going to wind up speaking in Austin as well. So always just trying to try to find people that think that there is an explicit rule set that they have to play by. And, you know, have to either wait their turn or wait for permission or what have you and say, hey, can I take you to the front of the line? You don't actually have to wait for anybody. You can just do it. One of those things with getting everybody together is we are not catering the conference. We are strategically getting venues that are surrounded by good restaurants. And we're giving everybody $25 to go out and grab lunch. And so it's a little bit of an adventure. Adam Stacoviak So you spend $100 and you get $25 back to go eat lunch? Jim Remsik That is a heck of a deal, if you ask me. That is an awesome deal. I love that deal. And that is something that we did for Madison. ([Time 0:48:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/231dda16-afa3-4f8d-89c7-77690160c0cb)) - **Inviting New Voices Onstage** - Jim seeks first-time speakers and proactively invites promising people to present. - He cites Nell Shamrell and Yuri as examples who delivered strong talks after being asked. Transcript: Jerod Santo Yeah. Jim Remsik Um, yeah. And so that is another thing that I, you know, just try to always make sure that, uh, if there are people who seem like they're lost or seem like they're, they don't know what to do, like Make an introduction. I can't, especially as a host, I can't like sit there and talk with everybody all day long, but I can connect them with somebody who's going to make sure that they're seen after and introduced To people and have a proper conference experience. Um, another thing that, uh, that I think is inherent in the way that we've done things is I will always look for people who've never spoken before. Um, I remember, uh, Nell Shamrell, uh, gave her first talk at Addison Ruby, I think in 2012. Um, and there was something about Nell that caused me to want to do that and but I she had never spoken before so I didn't have anything necessarily to base that on other than she was a great Person and turns out she had a drama background and she just absolutely delivered her talk and probably the best talk of that conference. And so even at RailsConf this year, the last RailsConf, I had somebody come up to our booth. And I was like, do you want to speak? And she's like, you know, you're not the first person to ask me that. And so that was Tia. She's going to wind up speaking in Austin as well. So always just trying to try to find people that think that there is an explicit rule set that they have to play by. And, you know, have to either wait their turn or wait for permission or what have you and say, hey, can I take you to the front of the line? You don't actually have to wait for anybody. You can just do it. One of those things with getting everybody together is we are not catering the conference. ([Time 0:50:10](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0f1888a6-8ba7-43ec-aa75-f1fc4f4a1c10)) - **Dry Run AV And Backdrops Early** - Do test-run full AV and staging setups before the first public event to avoid technical failures. - Run equipment checks and dry runs in real spaces to validate cabling and backdrop setups. Transcript: Jim Remsik Stress level is pretty low like uh it's it's gonna it's gonna unfold and and it will be the thing that it is that's that's one way to look at it you could always sell more tickets you could Always have uh you know more sponsors but it's not like we're not still working on it but i've got backdrops and projector. I did a test run at my mom's 55 plus community on Sunday night just to bring everything out, put it all together, make sure that I've got all the connections that I need. Jerod Santo What was your talk about? Did you tell them about? Jim Remsik No, no, no. I didn't actually do a talk. I just got everything put together. But they have a community space that is large enough to put it all together. Because it turns out, you know, it's like 30 feet of backdrops. Adam Stacoviak That's a big one. Don't dry run that day one, right? Like test run that at a 55 plus community. Jim Remsik This was not my test run either because i did uh oh i think two weeks before i did one and it did not go well i'm like i'm so glad that i don't have 100 people sitting behind me saying where's The show um you know the the one thing that does have me sweating a little bit is that i ordered the projection screen online And it was supposed to be here on Saturday the 23rd. And then they said, oh, it's delayed. It'll be there on August the 26th. Well, it's now August the 27th. I don't have a screen to project on yet. Jerod Santo Less than a week? More than a week. More than one week. Yeah. You got a week and a half. Chicago, September 6th. Adam Stacoviak Well, I mean, if it doesn't arrive, drop ship it to wherever you're going to be at. You know, don't be like, it's only at home I can take deliveries. Take delivery wherever you're at in the world. Yeah, but you can't change that that late in the game. Jerod Santo It's going to show up later. Adam Stacoviak No, you can't. You know, the next venue, though. The next event gets the screen. Jim Remsik You should order a backup and ship it straight to atlanta right now i have found uh there is a not nearly as good version but there is a version that i can get uh that should be able to get here In time but i i want the good version i want the best experience for people well ([Time 0:58:24](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6fd24c50-7632-47a3-aeed-3c925c1376d0)) - **Community Is Fragmented Across Platforms** - The developer community is fractured across many platforms, making centralized communication hard. - Jim chose Ruby Central's Slack to avoid creating yet another walled garden for attendees. Transcript: Jim Remsik There is no home for anybody anymore. Like there is not one place where you can go and find everybody. And that is absolutely a lesson that I'm, I knew going in, but I'm just feeling so hard. I don't necessarily know how to solve it. We are not creating our own asynchronous communication space. We're partnered with Ruby Central and we're using their Slack. So if you buy a ticket to the conference, you get added in Slack. You could always join the Ruby Central Slack from their site. But we didn't want to create further. We didn't want to create our own Discord and have yet another walled garden that people can't get access to. ([Time 1:02:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b9317b69-a85e-4762-a2f6-68803e8b8a91)) - **Who Knows You Matters Most** - Jim emphasizes 'who knows you' over 'who you know' to win consulting work. - Building trust by showing up repeatedly converts relationships into referrals and contracts. Transcript: Jim Remsik The bulk of it were people that we met 10 years ago that already trust us. The other brand new work that we've gotten has been referrals from people who trust us. And so it is really... If you spend any amount of time around me, you will likely hear this comment, but it was something that was shared in 2011 when we started my first consultancy. Somebody shared this with me and they said, it's not what you know, it's not who you know, it's who knows you. And I've come to learn that that means who knows that you are the person that's going to show up, who knows that you are capable of solving their problem, who knows what your values are, And who knows that they can trust you. And so, that's the part of meeting a lot of people that, you know, it's not that I'm out there doing a little jig so that everybody knows that I can do the jig. It's you just, you got to show up. And after a while, you know, there's people just know that that's Jim, that he's going to show up. If you've got a problem with, with rails, or if you, if you're doing Ruby and Madison, you should talk to Jim. If you want some really great design work done, you should talk to Kelly. ([Time 1:13:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/ead433e5-675f-4917-8e99-7cfc8d75fb10))