You Starve ... Glory Be to God?  🔗 **Source:** [You Starve ... Glory Be to God?](https://share.snipd.com/episode/d07e9b5e-f8b6-4aa2-9f4f-b64870c1d8a5) ## Highlights - **Numbers 16 Reveals Its Composite Origins** - Numbers 16 introduces four rebels but abruptly drops On after the opening verse. - Scholars see this disappearance as evidence that editors combined separate revolt traditions. Transcript: Dan Beecher We've got Korra. That's K-O It's not C-O Korah, Dathan, and Abiram well we've also got On so if we're starting in number 16-1 and here's where we're going to start to see that something peculiar is going Dan McClellan On here because verse 1 says now Korah son of Izhar son of Kohath son of Levi along with Dathan and Abiram sons of Eliab and On son of Yeah, on just goes away. Yeah, there's no more on. We are off. Which suggests in the mind of a lot of scholars, the composite nature of this story, that we've probably got different traditions that were woven together or separated out. And so we are looking at the end result of the accumulation and redaction and editing of a few different stories. And we're going to get it and we're going to highlight places where we seem to be getting one story and not another so yeah yeah take note of that right off the bat on son of pellef son of ruben Seems to be there to kind of indicate a connection with ruben but then boop is blips uh right out of the story so this is one of the the only one of the Israelites that Thanos snapped away Was on. He was like, I don't feel so good. And then just dust. ([Time 0:04:44](https://share.snipd.com/snip/129c8019-0787-4946-ba3e-06541f48c208)) - **Korah’s Revolt May Be A Priestly Power Struggle** - Korah’s challenge may preserve a conflict between competing Levitical priestly schools. - Korah belongs to Levi’s line, like Moses and Aaron, making the dispute a struggle over legitimate priestly authority. Transcript: Dan McClellan But yeah, these gentlemen, these brethren, took 250 Israelite men, leaders of the congregation, chosen from the assembly, well-known men, and they confronted Moses. Dan Beecher So that's a mob. 250 is not a small number of people. Dan McClellan Yeah, it's not like Steve, Bill, Tom, and I think this is unfair. No, this is pitchforks and And what are lamps torches? That's what they are. And not the British flashlight, but actual fire torches. Yeah. And they come to Moses and they confront him. And this is coming right after Moses is basically rattling off a bunch of legislation. And I think right before this, it was like, yeah, put fringes on your garments. Dan Beecher And at this point, these guys were like, that's it. You know what? Fringes on the garments. I was fine until you told me I have to fringe my garments. I'm not into that newfangled fashion. Dan McClellan So they assemble against Moses and Aaron and said, you have gone too far. Now, whether this has to do with fringes on the garments, it's not clear. Remember, this is composite. All the congregation are holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them. So why then do you exalt yourselves above the assembly of the Lord? And this is related kind of to what we have later on with Aaron's budding rod. Yeah. Where they're like, wait a minute, we're all holy. The Lord is among us all. Why do you get to be in charge? Dan Beecher Yeah, so this is a question of like, why aren't we also valid priests or whatever? Dan McClellan Right. And this may be a relic of kind of an early confrontation between different priestly schools, because Korah could have been the spokesperson for another priestly school, another Levitical priesthood. So we have the Aaronide, but we have another Kohathite line that descended from Levi that might be asserting the priesthood. ([Time 0:06:22](https://share.snipd.com/snip/70cf0a5e-8d26-4345-89b7-1c2605d99de1)) - **The Rebels’ Complaints Keep Changing** - Dathan and Abiram suddenly express a different complaint, recalling Egypt and rejecting Moses’ leadership. - The shifting participants and motives support the theory that multiple revolt stories were woven together. Transcript: Dan McClellan He says, You And now we have this thing where it says Moses sent for Dathan and Aviram, sons of Eliab, but they said, we will not come. They were there. Yeah. According to verse one, korah grabs the other guys and they all they are chosen along with these guys took 250 israelite men they assembled against moses but now they're not there and Moses had only been talking to korah i took that to mean that we are a little further along in the story and gone back to get their censors or whatever. Dan Beecher And then and then these guys are like, you know what? Dan McClellan I've seen Game of Thrones. Dan Beecher I'm not coming. Dan McClellan Yeah, the it is. It is peculiar. And there are scholars who have who have accounted this in a variety of ways. Most commonly, I think, there's an idea that there are either two or three different revolts, tales, that are being consolidated into one. Right. One involves Korah, at least one involves Dathan and Abiram. And so Moses sends for them, say, we will not come. Is it too little that you have brought us up out of a land flowing with milk and honey to kill us in the wilderness that you must also lord it over us? It is clear that you have not brought us into a land flowing with milk and honey or given us an inheritance of fields and vineyards. Would you put out the eyes of these Suddenly, where the putting out the eyes come from, that's a little more Game of Thrones than things had been up to this point. But also, their complaint seems very different now. Right. Totally different about, yeah, now their complaint is about leaving Egypt. And we've not yet come to a land flowing with milk and honey. Although there are scholars who have argued that the Hebrew here is a little squirrely. You could understand it to actually be saying you have not brought us to a land flowing with milk and honey, but to an inheritance of fields and vineyards where we've got to toil for our Food. Whereas the idea of land flowing with milk and honey, the Hebrew word there, actually has more to do with gushing. The land produces it naturally. This is a big rock candy mountain. Yeah. This is where there's just milk and honey just coming up out the ground. Right. All you, all you need is a bucket. Dan Beecher Which is funny because they seem to be indicating that they came from a land of milk and honey. Dan McClellan Yeah. Dan Beecher Which is an odd memory of being under brutal enslavement to the Egyptians. It's a weird way of envisioning two years ago being slaves. Yeah, yeah. Dan McClellan And there are some folks who think that maybe this story is actually set in the land of Israel. Like, they've already gotten there and they're complaining that the land isn't good enough. That's an argument that's been offered as well. Dan Beecher This is the worst Israel I've ever been to. I object. Dan McClellan Yeah, but if the idea is, hey, look, it's fields and vineyards, we have to toil and work just to try to get this stony ground to produce stuff. ([Time 0:11:37](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a9b20528-1403-481c-acf8-9e53e39c5c13)) - **The Bible Struggles To Explain Korah’s Descendants** - Numbers 16, 26, and the Psalms disagree about Korah’s death and the survival of his descendants. - Later editors may have preserved the sons of Korah to explain the existence of Korahite psalm traditions. Transcript: Dan McClellan And as soon as he finished speaking all these the ground under them was split apart. The earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up along with their households, everyone who belonged to Korah and all their goods. So Korah is evidently not coming out of his tent. Dathan and Aviram come out of their tents, and now the earth swallows up Korah, everyone who belonged to Korah and all their goods. Yeah. But notice who is not said to be swallowed up. Who's not said to be swallowed up here? Dan Beecher Well, it doesn't say Dathan and Aviram. It also doesn't say Korah was swallowed up. Oh, it says everyone who belonged to Korah. Dan McClellan Yeah. So we have Dathan and Aviram, and it says the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up, along with their households, everyone who belonged to Korah and all their goods, which seems Like it might be a secondary addition. Okay. Because Dathan and Aviram are the they. It's their households. But then it says everyone who belonged to Korah and all their goods. So it's like, well, we got to throw all of Korah's stuff into the mix, but not Korah. So they, with all that belonged to them, went down alive into Sheol. The earth closed over them and they perished from the midst of the assembly. Here's the panic. All Israel around them fled at their outcry for they said the earth will swallow us too. I think it's fair to be afraid in that moment. I think that that is a reasonable response. Dan Beecher That is a rational fear. Just gulp up a whole bunch of families. And then they're all scattering. Dan McClellan And verse 35 says, And fire came out from the Lord and consumed the 250 men offering the incense. So first we're going to eat up all these guys, and then the Lord's just Yeah. Going and they became holy. Thus they shall be assigned to the Israelites. What? Dan Beecher Yeah, that's so weird. Yeah. I'm assuming that this was an etiology for how the altar got covered in metal. Yeah, it does seem like an episode of Bob's Burgers where they were like, how did this happen? Dan McClellan And then we've got this weird mashup of some movie from the 1980s and this thing that we have here. Dan Beecher But, I mean, we just glossed right over the fact that the 250 dudes just got burned yes like this is crazy this is and then and it and it came to pass that the mother of dragons did emerge yeah Her own censor and she was naked um but but here's a weird thing. Dan McClellan Numbers 26, 10. Let me pull up 26, 10. So we're in 16 here. Yeah. But we have in Numbers 26, 9 says, The descendants of Eliab, Nemuel, Dathan, and Abiram. These are the same Dathan and Abiram, chosen from the congregation who rebelled against Moses and Aaron in the congregation of Korah, when they rebelled against the Lord and the earth Opened its mouth and swallowed them up along with Korah. So here we have the statement that Korah was taken down to Sheol when that congregation died, when the fire devoured 250 men and they became a warning, notwithstanding, sons of Korah Did not die. Oh, we've got we've got another contradiction because number 16 says everyone that belonged to Korah died. Yeah, doesn't explicitly say Korah died. Numbers 26 says no Korah died, but the sons of Korah did not die. They were in camp. That's a well, it's a head scratcher until you notice something about the book of Psalms. You've got, yes. We're bouncing all over the place. Yes. You've got in the book of Psalms, a number of Psalms that are dedicated or have Korah's name associated with them, the Korahites. Okay. There are 11 Psalms that are Korahite Psalms. Oh, okay. So Psalms like 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, and 49, and then 84, 85, 87, and 88. So most of them are from book two, but let me pull up Psalms 42. I want to see exactly what the Hebrew was because I thought it was B'nai Korah. Yeah, Livne Korah. So that is Sons of Korah. So number 16 says, doesn't say anything about Korach. He might have snuck out the back for all we know, but it says everyone that belonged to Korach, they took the dirt nap. But then number 26 says Korach took the dirt nap, but all of Korach's sons did not. ([Time 0:23:52](https://share.snipd.com/snip/374bf258-18ad-44d8-9cb5-a207a2673b23)) - **Aaron’s Budding Stick Feels Like An Anticlimax** - The budding-stick story follows mass deaths almost immediately, making its priestly confirmation feel dramatically anticlimactic. - The sequence includes earth swallowing rebels, fire consuming 250 men, and a plague killing 14,700. Transcript: Dan Beecher But verse 41 says, on the next day. It's not like 10 years later they forgot. And they were like, on the next day. So what happens? Dan McClellan Well, the whole congregation of the Israelites rebelled against Moses and Aaron, saying, you have killed the people of the Lord. So it's not like they forgot this happened. They remember this happened. Dan Beecher They're just like, we're not going to stand you can't you can't just kill everybody yeah and and and by the way it's Moses and Aaron that did this not God apparently yes and you you can't Dan McClellan Just kill all these people just because they challenged your authority I challenge your authority right yeah what do you think is going to happen to you? Then Moses and Aaron came to the front of the tent of meeting. I would not go if they were like, hey, everybody, Moses wants us at the front of the tent of meeting. I'd have been like, no. Dan Beecher You tell me what they said. I'll be over here. Yeah. Dan McClellan Moses and Aaron came to the front of the tent of meeting. The Lord spoke to Moses saying, get away from this congregation so that I may consume them in a moment. And they fell on their faces. Moses said to Aaron, take your censer, put fire in it from the altar and lay incense on it and carry it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them. For wrath has gone out from the Lord. The plague has begun. Yeah. Dan Beecher And this one, isn't covid this is a very fast plague because it is literally taking people as we speak like aaron grabs his sensor and runs out into the middle of the assembly and it's literally Happening and he's like ah you guys get over here come here let me censor at you and then uh i don't and i don't know what he does he put on the incense and made atonement for the people i don't Dan McClellan Know like what that ends up looking like well it seems like that should should be a specific kind of uh a sacrifice a specific offering but it doesn't really tell us uh exactly what's uh Dan Beecher Going on here so uh but yeah so he he does that and then stands between them and uh yeah this is when it gets like it gets very uh walking dead or something because everybody's suddenly infected And it's just like the infection's just moving through the crowd at rapid speed. And he and so he stands between the dead and the living and the plague was stopped. Dan McClellan Yeah. I'd like to see a dramatization of this, a movie where Moses falls on his face and is like, Aaron, get the censor. You've got to get out there, man. The plague has begun. And he comes out and he's just disoriented and there are zombies over here and there are healthy people over here and he's got a run out in between them. People dropping like flies. Yeah. It's just crazy. And then it says 14,700 died. Dan Beecher 14,000, almost 15,000 people died from this plague. That is, that's not a small number. And why were they all standing together? That's so big. Dan McClellan Well, yeah. And, you know, Aaron cannot really, one man can't really stand in between. 14,000. Roughly, well, no,,000 on one side oh right yeah yeah so almost 30,000 people and Aaron's like no get over no no I'm I my hands won't go any wider like uh he's like you can't hear at some point You're like what's that guy doing I can't hear him he's too far away and you don't know why did you just. Dan Beecher Oh, I'm supposed to move over? Dan McClellan Yeah, it is—somebody has a very vivid imagination here. And then when the plague stopped, Aaron returned to Moses at the entrance of the tent of meeting. That's kind of—everything happens at the entrance of the tent of meeting. That's where the bad news comes. Again, if I were in that congregation, you would never see me at the entrance of the tent of meeting. No. Dan Beecher I would be staying far away. Nor, again, I just, I will reiterate, the next chapter doesn't need to happen if I'm anywhere near this. Yeah, yeah. Like, it's been decided. The stick trick is cute and all, but we don't need it because 14,000 of us died and Aaron saved the rest of us. So we're good. Dan McClellan Yeah. I think we're good. So it's like, look, we've had in three days, we've had 250 people either swallowed by the earth or consumed by fire. And then the next day we all got zombified and 14,700 people died. And now we're playing with sticks. It just, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's an anticlimax. Dan Beecher If we're being honest, that's a, that's a big come down. Dan McClellan Yeah. And every time Moses says, so here's the way it is, the people all got to be like, ugh, because you say so? And it's like, have you not paid attention? Are you not entertained? Where were you for all of the things? ([Time 0:32:26](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7ce18b84-2583-41c3-add2-467ab63117b9)) - **Joel Webbin’s Theology Turns Poverty Into Punishment** - Joel Webbin argues that the church should let a childless older woman starve if welfare collapses. - His example targets women’s autonomy through references to feminism, hair color, birth control, and antidepressants. Transcript: Dan Beecher So our little buddy, Joel Webin, he's a Christian nationalist. That he is. Overtly, that is a self-applied title for him. Christianity is a big deal for him, and he feels he has a very strong sense of what Christianity is and what it should do what uh what the church believes and should believe uh this is the Same guy who in clips i've seen recently has said things like women shouldn't be allowed to vote right and uh and also women um we yeah he's got a lot to say about women. Not a fan. Or he's a fan of women as long as they hoosh, just a shh. Please be quiet is his main thing for women. They shouldn't be allowed to speak in public forums or be politicians or any of that sort of stuff. Yeah. But the clip that... Dan McClellan And he even said that when women got the vote, that was a vote stolen from him as a man. That's right. That's right. Dan Beecher He feels like his vote was diluted by half or something like that. Yeah, yeah. And he's also claimed that his wife dutifully votes as he instructs her to do, but he's not in the booth. We don't know what she's doing. Anywho, Joel, that's not what we're talking about this time. This time Joel had an interesting thing to say. Do you want to read us some of his clips? Dan McClellan He has this right response ministry, and he does, I don't know if they're podcasts or just shows or whatever, but he records himself saying inflammatory things so he can get attention. And we're giving him that. But there's about a 60-something second clip of him saying the following, if we ever come to a point where the state is not actually able to meet the physical needs of those who are impoverished In our society today, then the church will be up against a Herculean task. And right off the bat, I just want to point out, this would seem to acknowledge that taking care of the poor is something the church is not equipped for. And this seems to recognize that that is the appropriate purview of the state, which conflicts with so many Christian nationalist arguments about how, no, Jesus was only talking about Individual responsibility to take care of the poor. When it comes to state responsibility, that's not on, that's on the church. That's not on the government. Dan Beecher And they talk about that constantly, that it is the church that, yeah, don't use my tax dollars to take care of the poor and the needy and the sick or whatever. That's the church's job. Dan McClellan So tithing dollars are supposed to do it? They're not doing it. Dan Beecher Yeah, well, and the second you say, okay, then church do it, he says, well, they can't. So anyway, go on with what he has to say. Dan McClellan But one thing that the church has to do is tell modern feminist pagan women, no, they have to say no. So if there's a woman who is elderly, but she chose by her own volition because she hates the patriarchy and she hates Christ, she hates traditional marriage, all these different things. She's 65 years old with blue or purple hair. She has no children, not because she couldn't conceive, but because she was on SSRIs and birth control her entire life of her own volition. If that time ever comes and she is unemployable and she made bad financial decisions, she's fallen on hard times. Our bloated welfare state is no longer operational. Then the church needs to be able to look at her and say, you starve. You starve. Glory be to God. You starve. ([Time 0:38:06](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5e4cab12-bd24-414f-b5b2-a54aafc5bfc1)) - **The Good Samaritan Refutes Selective Compassion** - The Good Samaritan reverses social hostility by making the despised outsider care for the vulnerable person. - Applied to Webbin’s example, Jesus would center compassion for the blue-haired woman he condemns. Transcript: Dan McClellan But the first thing that comes to my mind when I hear this is the parable of the Good Samaritan. Yeah. And the story of, you know, Jesus says the two great commandments, love God and love your neighbor. And then the lawyer sneers, who is my neighbor? And Jesus doesn't say everybody's your neighbor, but Jesus says, let me tell you this story about a Samaritan who went out of his way to help an Israelite who had fallen on hard times. And who was treating someone like a neighbor? Was it the Levite and the others who walked by on the other side of the road? Dan Beecher Was it Joe Webin who said ick and crossed the street? Dan McClellan Yeah, not my monkeys, not my circus. Or is it the Samaritan, the person you hate? And it was very specific, the reason that Jesus chose to talk about the Samaritan according to the narrative, and that's because the Samaritans were hated. The folks of that day, at least within the universe that the author of the gospels is, is constructing. And so like, if you wanted Joel to paint his picture of his Samaritan, it would be a 65 year old blue haired single lady. Right. Like that, that if Jesus came down and, and was like, Joel, dude, let me tell you a story about a 65-year blue-haired lady who didn't have any kids and fell on hard times. Like, that's the Samaritan. And Joel is like, man, they get to starve. Glory to God, they're going to starve. Yeah. So this flagrantly violates the entire reason for the parable of the Good Samaritan. ([Time 0:48:12](https://share.snipd.com/snip/df68daee-9d35-4ac4-a1c2-2149856b0a90)) - **Prophetic Critique Condemns Piety Without Justice** - Biblical prophetic criticism condemns public piety that neglects the poor, widows, orphans, foreigners, and oppressed. - Celebrating a needy person’s starvation exemplifies the hypocrisy those prophets explicitly attack. Transcript: Dan McClellan Yeah. But, and this is, you know, you kind of have to go to the Hebrew Bible if you want to try to find examples of, or try to find rationalizations for ignoring certain folks. Unfortunately, even there you're going to get excoriated by the loudest voices. Because we've talked about the prophetic critique many times in the past, and this is kind of a perfect example of the prophetic critique, which is saying, I hate your new moons and your Sabbaths. I do not delight in the blood of bulls and all this stuff. And the whole idea is when you put your piety on display, but are neglecting the poor and the needy and the orphan and the widow and the oppressed and the foreigner, your demonstration Of piety becomes sinful and I hate it. Yeah. And this is a textbook example. And he even includes you starve glory to God. You starve. Right. It's like, he's like, what would be the best way for me to put on, put on display the fact that I'm going to oppress the poor and the needy while also publicly putting my piety on display So other people can take note of how pious I am. It is the antithesis of the prophetic critique sandwich. You have just put it on a plate and are serving it up. This is what that's talking about. ([Time 0:52:44](https://share.snipd.com/snip/25677217-89fc-4fb2-b2a8-50cfa6d9c5b1)) - **A Dave Ramsey Caller Wanted To Punish Socialist Daughters** - Dan Beecher recounts a Dave Ramsey caller who wanted to withhold inheritance from daughters because they became socialists. - The story illustrates a conservative Christian fixation on treating money as personal property rather than communal responsibility. Transcript: Dan Beecher It does. You know, you just reminded me of a clip that I saw just today. You know, we've talked about Dave Ramsey before on the show and it was a Dave Ramsey clip. He's a financial, he's a Christian financial advisor. Dan McClellan Well, everybody's a Christian now, whether, whether they were in the past, that's where the money is, is advocating for Christian themes. Dan Beecher It's, which is why I don't have a lot of money. Um, but, uh, but he, so he had a caller come in and you know, the, the person who was posting this clip called it the most boomer moment ever. Apologies to our listeners, but it was basically this woman called in and said, Hey, I have, I have a lot of money. I don't want to give it to my daughters as an inheritance because they went away to school and became socialists. And I don't want to reward them for that. And I just thought to myself, and of course, Dave Ramsey laughed and laughed about this and was like, yeah, you don't owe them anything if they're going to be like that. You know, you could just say that they have to be responsible stewards of the money and they're not going to be because they believe in giving it away and a free ride and all of this stuff. And it was just, I just feel like there's this weird thread among conservative Christians of what's mine is mine that feels completely counter to what I read when I read Jesus. When I read—it's so weird. Dan McClellan Yeah, well, as we've seen, we have a lot of folks who will say, oh, when it says the meek shall inherit the earth, that means you have to be an absolute monster, but just restrain yourself. Right. Until you get to let the monster out. Yeah, there's so many attempts on the part of phenomenally ([Time 1:00:55](https://share.snipd.com/snip/9de271c7-6481-468a-b2e4-d44f8b63fad5)) - **Christian Nationalism Recasts Selfishness As Faithfulness** - Christian nationalism can treat Christianity as a tool for protecting personal interests rather than transforming selfish behavior. - The hosts distinguish biblical justice from vengeance driven by delight in opponents’ suffering. Transcript: Dan McClellan Selfish people to try to overturn what's going on most likely in these passages because really their concern is looking out for themselves and they see things like Christianity as A means to an end rather than something that's supposed to change them in ways they don't like, in ways that are not as helpful for them. And there's an argument that I'm sure you've seen it at some point where people say, if Christianity were man-made, why does it go against all of man's desires? It's like, we see Christianity being leveraged precisely to slake man's desires every single day. So, no, that argument does not work. And it's a very easy little flip to switch. Flip? Flip? I'm going to get this one of these days. Switch to flip to just say, oh, well, maybe meek actually means you're an utter monster. You just have control of it. All right, there we go. Now I'm into it. I'm digging it. Yeah. Dan Beecher Thank goodness I figured out what that actually means. Yes. So it actually doesn't... Jordan Peterson with no training in biblical Greek. Right, right, right. Thank goodness I figured that out. Yeah. Dan McClellan Oh, suddenly Christianity becomes a lot less problematic for me, requires much less of me, and allows me to be the same person that I arrived at Christianity as. So, yeah, there's an awful lot of rationalizing, all of that kind of stuff. And Joel here is just rationalizing his own misogyny, profound, profound misogyny. This is a small man thinking small thoughts and saying small words to try to make himself feel bigger. Dan Beecher Look, you mentioned the misogyny. I will just say, I can steel man his misogyny arguments way better than I, man, this argument, the deny people food argument. I feel like he's got a case, a biblical case for the misogyny. Dan McClellan Yes, the Bible is highly misogynist. So, yeah, you can construct a case that is far more plausible for that than you can for the notion that you should be able to guffaw in the face of needy people seeking aid. Of a starving old woman. Yes. Saying, you starve, glory to God, you starve. Yeah. Yeah, there's no case to make for that from the Bible. That's something that relies on the just misanthropy of Christian nationalism, which is, yeah, more and more, I'm going to get mine, and I want to see you get yours in the bad way. I want to watch. I want to revel in seeing you. Dan Beecher I want to delight in your pain and your suffering. ([Time 1:03:03](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7557982a-2b50-4e13-9740-e464a569d216))