# Creating vs Consuming, Consistency & Fitness  ## Episode metadata - Episode title: Creating vs Consuming, Consistency & Fitness - Show: Build and Learn - Owner / Host: CJ Avilla, Colin Loretz - Guests: [Greg Rog](https://share.snipd.com/person/7bb47a60-cbd6-4b1b-85aa-fea9ddd9d18f) - Episode publish date: 2024-03-04 - Episode AI description: Colin and CJ chat about the balance between consuming and creating content, the importance of consistency in fitness goals, and the challenges of developing a personal finance app with multi-currency support. They also discuss learning styles, real estate APIs, and building customer support interfaces using React. - Duration: 46:43 - Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/aae0b750-aa1e-43ef-9a76-4bf6163e8970) - Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/a7d7cab4-9aff-4fb2-bee8-014ef5cd0f7a) - Export date: 2026-02-17T23:32:21 ## Snips ### [Marathon Training Journey](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4ab044c4-c4ec-4b1f-82ba-27d150d20711) 🎧 00:31 - 03:36 (03:04) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/5e932335-5f5f-40cf-bb16-a9d5b95e067b" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Colin shares his slow-burn marathon training plan focusing on consistency, not intensity. - He values accountability through scheduled races and gradual fitness habits. #### 💬 Quote > I have a plan, a training plan from Hal Hagen, Marathon Training Plan. [...] You don't need to have run a marathon before you go do the marathon. > — Colin Colin on his marathon preparation and consistent training approach. #### 📚 Transcript Yeah, for me, I'm trying to do the James Clear consistency over, you know, doing like these Herculean effort type things. So, I have a plan, a training plan from Hal Hagen, Marathon Training Plan. So, I'm gearing up for just, it's a 30-week plan, so it's not like one of those, like, do a marathon in 12 weeks type of thing. It's very slow burn, gets you back into just like knocking off the runs, and then you'll start getting into the more marathon training plan. So, I'm hoping to do a marathon in September with a friend of the show, one of our friends Calvin up in Washington, and then potentially one in December in Honolulu. Ooh, nice. Very cool. In my first time down to Hawaii, so that's the plan, and just trying to get into the habit of it, have the rhythm of it, you know, even if it's a 3-mile run, it doesn't need to be a fast 3-mile run, it just needs to be done. So, I'll just put this on that. And what are the long runs in the first couple weeks for that program? My first long run this last weekend was going to be 7 miles. So, you know, you still do the long run on Sundays, the whole church of the long run type thing. And so, it'll ramp up to eventually, usually you do, like, eventually you get up to like 20 miles a few, maybe 4 weeks before the actual marathon, and then you take her off into the actual thing. And so, you don't need to have run of marathon before you go do the marathon. But yeah, just getting into that and trying to weave in a little bit of things like kettlebells and strength. A lot of working on the knees, they don't work like they used to, so they have the strength that they need to support myself through that whole run. Very cool. Is the marathon that's in Washington in November, is it in Washington in November? I think I September, yeah. Or September, okay. And is that one like a qualifying one for Honolulu or can you spell it? No, Honolulu, even if like, no, okay. Yeah, yeah, they're separate. This one's just, you know, my brother wants to do the Honolulu one, so I'm training with him and then Calvin wants to do the one up by him, so I'm training with him. For that one, and for me, their accountability, you know, once you pay for a race, once you have it in your calendar, you can't just be like in the 11th hour decide like, oh, I guess I should get ready for that. Which is a good way to think of like a lot of goals, like if you want to try to like write a book, you're not going to be like, oh, I procrastinated until the 11th hour and then I wrote the whole book, like it just doesn't work like that. So it's good. You know, I could just do things like there's the Spartan races and, you know, all those kinds of races and things, but it'll be good to like keep myself accountable, keep them accountable and have it on the calendar. --- ### [High-Protein Fitness Routine](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5b610d3c-a2d3-4ee3-8d53-3ce749b3f9ee) 🎧 05:24 - 07:40 (02:15) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/b097ee60-9abd-402e-9682-ad85a46f69f6" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - CJ shares his progress in an eight-week accountability session focusing on high-protein meals and daily exercise. - His routine includes plant protein Greek yogurt and strength training, leading to sustained fitness gains. #### 💬 Quote > I've kind of found a pretty high protein diet that is sustainable, like relatively sustainable, which has been working really well for me. [...] And on the exercise front, doing a power zone challenge on the bike with strength training. > — CJ CJ discusses his diet and workout strategy in an accountability fitness program. #### 📚 Transcript are going well. We've got our accountability crew. We are in week seven of eight weeks. So we're doing like an eight week session and we're trucking along. We keep posting updates of every single meal and, you know, our exercise routines and things like that. I think we've missed a couple here and there and you always just trying to catch back up and get back on the train. So I am this past weekend. I waited like two, 16, which was down from like two 50 in the summer. So making tons of progress and it's all just like consistency. Like you've got to kind of just show up and eat the right things every single day. And I think that I've kind of found a pretty high protein diet that is sustainable, like relatively sustainable, which has been working really well for me kind of just like, it took me a while to get back to the next day. It took me a while of like looking at every single thing I was eating and trying to figure out, you know, is this or what is the protein content of this? What is the fat? Like what are the macros of each meal or each like part of the meal and is there something I can swap out or swap in for something that's like a higher protein. And as a result, like, yeah, I've kind of like narrowed in on a few dishes that I never would have had before. Like one is I'll have like Greek yogurt in the morning. I'll have Greek yogurt with like scoops of protein powder, like plant based protein powder and flax seed. And I just stir it all up and it sounds gross, but it's so good. And it's just like become this like super high protein, like 30, it's like 35 grams of protein, very little net carbs, very little other stuff in it. And it's really filling. And so satiety is very high. So doing that. And then on the like the exercise front, doing a power zone challenge with on the bike. So we have like two 45 minute rides and then a long ride on the weekend. That's like between 60 and 120 minutes. And then five days a week I've been doing like a barbell like dumbbell type strength training, just like a really low key 30 minute a day five day split. And yeah, all of that seems to be working really, really well and feeling pretty strong and really happy --- ### [Consumption vs Creation Insight](https://share.snipd.com/snip/da7e53cc-5651-4a9b-bdfe-f4ef4067e1d4) 🎧 10:10 - 16:09 (05:58) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/2d13a39a-f9e6-492a-8266-fc8084c523c1" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Mindless consumption of social apps often disrupts creating and real-life interactions. - Intentional consumption aids creation, but social algorithms strive to trap attention to prevent it. #### 💬 Quote > If you're busy creating things, you should spend less time consuming things or vice versa. [...] They want your time and attention, which means you're probably not out making your own things. > — Colin Colin on the relationship between consuming content and creating things. #### 📚 Transcript Well, this is kind of around the consistency and like what we do every day kind of like defines what where we spend our time and our identity and this thing that keeps coming up in the podcast I listened to and some videos I've been watching has been this like concepts that I'd be curious to take on. Like if you're busy creating things, you should spend less time consuming things or vice versa. Like, in a way, it almost, I think now that I said it out loud, like casts like consuming as bad. And like when you hear like mindless consumption or like doom scrolling and Instagram and TikTok, like they want your time and attention, which means that you're probably not going out and making your own things, whether it's content or code or working out or whatever it is, right? It's time and attention. I'd be curious, like, what do you think about that in terms of like do the things that you consume help you to be a better creator? Are they kind of like the yin and yang of like, you know, inspiration, then creation or, or like, oh, too busy too busy creating things in a little vacuum over here that you know it can't be bothered. I need to think a lot more about this, but my gut reaction is that you have to consume a little to build like taste. And it's important to see like what other people are doing to consider whether or not that's something you want to incorporate into your own. I don't think mindlessly scrolling is good or beneficial for like for creation. I think if you go into it and you open up TikTok and you look at it and you say to yourself, I'm going to look at these TikToks because I want to see what they're doing to go viral. That is like a very different intention when you open the app than like I'm bored or I'm tired or I'm anxious or I'm like, you know, like other reasons why you might like reach for a dopamine hit through through TikTok. And like those things are not good for you for sure, right? Like the just mindless scrolling, but I think, yeah, if you can, if you're consuming intentionally to become a better creator, then I could see that that would be totally positive. And there's like absolutely a good way to do it. That said, I don't think anyone or like I would say most people are not mindfully consuming TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts or any of the like algorithmic feeds of anything. And yeah, personally, I have definitely fallen into a really unhealthy pattern of consuming mindlessly at night and like all the algorithms just want to show me like political shit now. And I'm like, I'm very, very over it. Like I don't want to hear about political news. And I just get sucked into it like on a daily basis where every time I open up any of the these apps, it's just showing me like all of this junk, like political propaganda stuff basically. And so it's definitely not good. And I'm also like trying to be better about when I open any of the social media apps, like what do I want to learn or what do I like? How do I want to like grow from this experience? So yeah, I'm trying to be a little bit better about it, but yeah, just throwing yourself off of the cliff into the algorithm is definitely not the right way to go for sure. Yeah, and I think like with most things, you can use them as entertainment. Like we don't need to open them every time with like, I must get something out of it. Like that's useful in my work or whatever. But tends to be that like, if you mindfully say, I'm going to watch a show or like, I think a lot of people are moving to watching things on YouTube that and like it used to be that YouTube videos were super long and they became shorter and shorter and shorter. And now some creators that I follow are like creating series of like pretty like 30, 40 minute, you know, adventure videos and things like that. And I watched those like I would watch like a TV show and I'll watch one and then walk away from it and not necessarily get pulled into the algorithm or the next video. I think watching YouTube on like a TV, you don't have that sidebar as much of like next videos. It still kind of happens, but it's not. I don't think they spend as much time on that. Like, how do we get you to click on the next one as much as they've done it on the web or probably even mobile? But yeah, I hear you. I mean, it's really easy to fall into. I think the whole Senate hearing thing that happened recently. Some a lot of that was like kangaroo court around. They already had sound bites that they wanted to, you know, tell tiktok and and meta and all these, but there is a lot of truth in the fact that they want you to use it more. And so they're their motivations are not always aligned with like what our goals are for what we use those apps for or like the what's the job to be done with Instagram, right? Right. A lot of it is ads now, which are very, very good and very targeted ads, but I've been wondering myself, like, how would I feel less of an urge to buy things if I wasn't on social. And now I like witness the like, oh, this thing is easy to buy right now. If I want it, I'll write it down and see if I still want it. And usually if it comes from the internet, it's probably not not something that I need. Yeah. So that's that's a good one. I think something for everyone to think about at home. Just, you know, how much is consuming. Do you want to be creating more doesn't have to be a public thing. It might even be something for yourself. Just kind of time, time and attention. --- ### [Intentional Consumption Advice](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7f7b3f7f-3540-46a7-8816-2c4d24c1675a) 🎧 11:25 - 13:34 (02:08) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/7a9c43b6-f50e-44ea-9c45-df7ab0340dff" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Consume content intentionally to build taste and improve as a creator. - Avoid mindless scrolling driven by boredom or anxiety, especially on algorithmic platforms. #### 💬 Quote > If you go into it and you open up TikTok and you look at it and you say, I'm going to look at these TikToks because I want to see what they're doing to go viral. That is a very different intention than being bored or tired. > — CJ CJ advises mindful content consumption for creators. #### 📚 Transcript I need to think a lot more about this, but my gut reaction is that you have to consume a little to build like taste. And it's important to see like what other people are doing to consider whether or not that's something you want to incorporate into your own. I don't think mindlessly scrolling is good or beneficial for like for creation. I think if you go into it and you open up TikTok and you look at it and you say to yourself, I'm going to look at these TikToks because I want to see what they're doing to go viral. That is like a very different intention when you open the app than like I'm bored or I'm tired or I'm anxious or I'm like, you know, like other reasons why you might like reach for a dopamine hit through through TikTok. And like those things are not good for you for sure, right? Like the just mindless scrolling, but I think, yeah, if you can, if you're consuming intentionally to become a better creator, then I could see that that would be totally positive. And there's like absolutely a good way to do it. That said, I don't think anyone or like I would say most people are not mindfully consuming TikTok, Instagram, YouTube shorts or any of the like algorithmic feeds of anything. And yeah, personally, I have definitely fallen into a really unhealthy pattern of consuming mindlessly at night and like all the algorithms just want to show me like political shit now. And I'm like, I'm very, very over it. Like I don't want to hear about political news. And I just get sucked into it like on a daily basis where every time I open up any of the these apps, it's just showing me like all of this junk, like political propaganda stuff basically. And so it's definitely not good. And I'm also like trying to be better about when I open any of the social media apps, like what do I want to learn or what do I like? How do I want to like grow from this experience? --- ### [Screen Time Parenting Advice](https://share.snipd.com/snip/29997a2a-3bd3-4f07-9486-83a6ec3ea682) 🎧 16:31 - 17:42 (01:11) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/50217716-d154-4712-a9dd-877f953a38df" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Guide kids towards creative screen time like making podcasts or videos rather than passive social media. - Discourage mindless watching or scrolling, favoring active engagement over passive consumption. #### 💬 Quote > We're trying to help our kids be thoughtful consumers and productive creators. [...] Playing or watching documentaries is much healthier than mindless social media scrolling. > — CJ CJ on managing kids' screen time towards creativity and purposeful consumption. #### 📚 Transcript media right now for them at their age completely off limits. But there's also like a difference for them between playing certain games and watching, you know, documentaries and, and then like creating. And so we've tried to like carve up screen time into these different sort of scopes, maybe, where if they are spending time on the computer to make a podcast or a video or stop motion animation or to write a story or to draw or something like that, we feel much more comfortable with being like, yeah, sure, like go be creative, use the tools, go 3D print stuff, go print things out, whatever. But if you want to just go on the computer and scroll through YouTube and watch people play video games, that in our opinion is like way less healthy than like, even if they were to just go and play the video game themselves, right? Like they're at least like a little bit more engaged, but yeah, both like the, yeah, just kind of garbage entertainment that's trying to get them to buy stuff versus a little bit more. Thoughtful, like, okay, let's watch a documentary about space or something that we as parents have somehow deemed more valuable for their future. --- ### [Building Personal Finance App](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4f9e3938-1b8e-477d-adf8-4de76acd7f5e) 🎧 17:52 - 19:22 (01:29) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/8cb6b735-0acb-4c63-8d62-0bddcfebe754" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - CJ and Colin develop a personal finance app, Buckets, to track money across categories and accounts. - They experience challenges integrating with financial data providers but enjoy building a tailored, controlled tool. #### 💬 Quote > We've been experimenting with lots of different data providers and came full circle back to Stripe. [...] It's fun to scratch your own itch and have full control over it. > — CJ CJ and Colin share their experience building a personal finance app called Buckets. #### 📚 Transcript Oh my gosh. So at work, we are, we're building out a bunch of tools for calculating gross margin on projects. Lots of different calculators and estimators and caching data in certain places so that things render quickly. Also continuing to work on our messaging release for Twilio, which is coming along pretty well. And so we've been experimenting with like recording calls and routing calls and building all that kind of stuff. And then, yeah, on the side, continuing to hack on buckets here and there. So buckets.cjhab.dev. If folks are interested, it's going to be a little personal finance app. And yeah, like we, you and I chatted about this in all the different data providers and it's funny watching Josh Pigford on Twitter, like just raging about how the data providers for all this financial data. There's like not one good one that will give you all the connections to all the banks and mortgage companies and, you know, brokerage accounts and bank accounts and credit cards and all these things. And so went through the whole cycle of trying to integrate lots of different ones and then came full circle back to, back to Stripe and it's still like none of them are perfect, but it's been, it's been fun to hack on. Yeah, I've got it running on my machine to and then playing around with figuring out where I can be useful and what we can add to it. --- ### [Effective Learning Approaches](https://share.snipd.com/snip/908399f3-74b6-40a7-88f6-c516558f6b80) 🎧 27:32 - 32:45 (05:13) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/02717691-b44e-49ff-a7b4-bbc50f9c7fdb" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Learning styles vary widely; reading is essential for technical mastery while videos enhance engagement. - Combining documentation reading with hands-on experimentation and tools like ChatGPT deepens understanding. #### 💬 Quote > Learning a complex topic depends on what's available to learn with. [...] I try quick starts, follow tutorials, and use ChatGPT for explanations and alternatives. > — CJ CJ describes his approach to learning complex technical topics. #### 📚 Transcript So I've been binging a lot of course creation, dev rel, docs type content. So back that maybe that was where the consuming versus creating kind of came in. I'm sure it was mentioned multiple times, but one that stuck out to me was that asked courses with Joel Hooks, really good podcasts for course creators and course builders. And I think the podcast is called course builders with Greg Rogue. I think it's their first episode raising the bar for online learning. And what I really liked about the episode was they both are video course creators and platform creators as well. Like they both Joel and Greg run their own course platforms. Greg actually runs two two different ones, two different code bases. And the really big question that they posed at the top of it was how do you actually approach sitting down to learn a new complex topic? So they both are video course creators. And I think their answer was kind of interesting that both of them are actually they learn by reading. And so they're their own favorite method of learning is a little bit different than the stuff that they put out. So yeah, I'd be curious just to hear what your approach is to sitting down to a new thing. I'm jealous because I wish that reading was my like priority version of learning, but usually it's video. And so it like that basically means that like the videos that I make are just like lower quality versions of the other videos I've seen online or something, you know, like a collection of other videos. Yeah, no, I think like first of all, learning by learning a topic by reading is obviously going to be very, very important for any career because most content will be available as written word, right? Like if there's documentation about an API, it will be written documentation. There's probably 2% or less of information available about how to use an API is going to be available as video. And so when yeah, like learning a complex topic, I guess like most of my experience in this case comes through Stripe. A lot of it would be read through the docs with a super fine tooth comb because docs writers often try to be as concise as possible. And so there might be one sentence on a giant docs page that has the answer for something that you're looking for. So yeah, just trying to be like really, really thorough when you're reading through things. And then second is like trying stuff out. So just getting really quick at trying quick starts, following instructions and tutorials, and then also like, yeah, I think I guess like recently too, I've been kind of like leaning a lot on Chachi BT, where I'll say like, okay, here's the pieces that I think I understand what where were my blind spots and then how would you do this? And then give me some alternatives to how you would do it. And then trying to like think through the implications of those has kind of been a little bit of a new approach. But yeah, what about you? How are you approaching these kinds of things? Yeah, I think they brought up that it really depends on the thing that you're learning, which I would agree with. And part of that would be like you said, what's available to learn with. Chachi BT is definitely a new part for me, not just telling it what I know or having an explain it, but I'll sometimes take like if it's extremely technical, I'll copy the technical documentation and say explain this in a different way. Like I'll say explain it like I'm 10, which is always funny when you if you do the explain it like you're five, they like comes up with like very kid focus like metaphors and analogies and things. You know, that can help to break it down. Chachi BT is also really good at summarizing things and like say like give me steps or bullet points. And I don't know how much when you tell it to do that, how much it's still trying to pull from the outside, right? And versus what it's been given. So that you always got to take that with a grain of salt and make sure it's not hallucinating and things like that. But for me, I would say like I definitely like to go find a video like you do and just being able to do it. And learning by doing is like if there's a sample project, a quick start guide, pull down the tutorial, get cloned, whatever it needs to be. And I just need to like get it running and then maybe change some things to get it to fail or break and then put it back and just kind of poke at the edges to see what's possible. I've been doing that a lot with the thing that I'm documenting right now because it's like the team that built it. We still can't talk about it. The team that built it knows it in and out, but I need to know it in and out to document it. And so I'm using it, breaking it, fixing it, thinking like, okay, all these things that I already know, do they still apply to this thing or is this like a new thing that I need to think about? And to your point, you know, how do we avoid having one very crucial important line buried in the bottom of the docs instead of like, these are the things you should know before you start. --- ### [Friction Logging for Feedback](https://share.snipd.com/snip/934892e6-56a4-4652-bc52-ffff6f113c90) 🎧 37:04 - 38:10 (01:05) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/1793cd58-c637-4771-8bb3-2dc8cd0b0e50" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Use friction logs to document your problem-solving process when using tools. - Sharing these logs with product teams can improve developer experience and clarify misunderstandings. #### 💬 Quote > One way to provide feedback is writing out your stream of consciousness trying to solve a problem. [...] That can lead to fruitful conversations and learning. > — CJ CJ explains how friction logs help improve product development. #### 📚 Transcript Yeah, I guess another thing that comes to mind sort of is using friction logging as, yeah, as a way to start conversations about how things should work. So especially when you're on a dev rel team and you're providing product feedback to the product team, one way to do that is in these things called friction logs where you just like write out your stream of consciousness of you trying to solve a problem with the tool that was built. Sometimes as you go through that, the product team will be like, oh, whoa, like, this is not what we expected people to think about that part of the documentation or that part of the API or SDK or whatever. And so let's have a conversation about that and try to make the developer experience better. Sometimes it's also like, oh, I was just being like dumb and I missed or like completely misunderstood how that was supposed to work. But yeah, it can, yeah, writing a stream of consciousness to try to explain what you were thinking when you were trying to build something and then show it to the person, like the team responsible for building that can also lead to some fruitful conversations and learning. So totally. --- ### [Exploring Campfire Chat Code](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0035b268-9d4e-4a98-8d63-1a2134e94264) 🎧 38:12 - 44:43 (06:30) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/2d03a142-247e-4b5f-ac18-f003e814980b" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Colin and CJ bought the source code for Campfire, a chat app from 37Signals, to explore its design. - They are curious how it handles UI, bots, and live updates with Hotwire rather than React. #### 💬 Quote > We bought Campfire to see the code. [...] I'm really curious to see how they're solving things like bots without React, using stimulus and Hotwire. > — Colin and CJ Colin and CJ discuss their interest in the Campfire chat app codebase and technology. #### 📚 Transcript Well, I think we can tease this one for next time, but we can talk about it a little bit. There's been a lot of conversation about campfire and the kind of one time once business model of campfire. We had a few episodes ago and like, we're curious to see how it went and it went live. It got sold. The numbers that were kind of thrown around a few weeks ago was that it had only sold, had only in quotes sold like a thousand copies or so. That's probably more now, but some people have just been, you know, armchair expert in about whether or not that was a success or not. Basically, you know, such a big company and being able to release this is like kind of what is the motivation for this? Do they think it's the true business model? Ultimately, it seems like a lot of people bought it just to see the code and we went ahead and bought it so that we could see the code. So we'll definitely, we're going to be looking at it and then we'll talk about it in the next episode. But yeah, I mean, what do you think about this? Do you think that people actually want to host this themselves? Do you think that? Yes. I think that's the appetite that you want to have a server somewhere. I don't think anyone, well, I mean, I'm sure there's going to be some people, but I would guess that the majority of people who've bought it so far are just interested in looking at the code that DHH wrote or was kind of like responsible for in some way. And I'm really excited that this is available. And also like in the same way watching the maybe code base evolve and you know, getting to read this, getting to read the Jumpstart Pro source, getting to read, you know, there's a few other like open source Rails projects that have been kicking off that seem really interesting. And so I'm just really excited that there's more full Rails applications that are going to be available, some for free and some for money that you can go and read and see how other people are approaching problems. Because I think for a long time there really weren't any, right? It was like you could see some toy apps online or, you know, some read blog posts, but you couldn't really dig into a full application source that some company had used to actually run and execute their entire business. Maybe there maybe there are some, but yeah, I think that's like the most exciting part about it. Yeah, well, and whoever bought it, I think it already, it happened once. I'm not sure if there's plans to do it again, but DHH did a walkthrough of the code for anyone who bought it. And I, some people were saying like, if you want to think of this as a course, like it's cheaper than some courses, it's code written by DHH and team who created Rails. Now, obviously now Rails is more than just DHH and it's community effort, but if you want to see how, you know, DHH thinks about some of these things, it's what's motivating a lot of people to do it. I think they're doing a walkthrough around the CSS and design with one of their designers coming up. So it's interesting. It'd be almost very, I would be curious to get recordings of those now that I have a copy of the code. And it could be sold as a course if. And people can still host it themselves. The way that it comes, it comes with an install script that installs Docker and downloads the code and all of that onto the server that it's meant for. And they're using like license keys and things like that. I'm mostly interested in looking at the hot wire and stimulus side of things. I don't think that there's like a mobile version necessarily like using like hot wire and turbo native and all that stuff, but I could see that becoming a thing in the future to my first pass of the code. There is a bunch of stuff in there for bots. And I remember the OG campfire had bots like it was, it was ahead of the time, you know, it was people were leaving IRC to go to campfire before Slack and before teams and all these other tools. So I think those things might happen. I just don't know because they're not getting recurring revenue and they're not going to be able to resell like, Hey, here's a DLC. Like is there going to be like a $20 add on to get bots and integration? A lot of people use integrations with Slack and you're not going to go see like campfire show up in Zapier, for instance, you know, you're not going to have to do any of these two DPI requests to your own API, but we'll have to dig into the code. I haven't looked to see like, is there an API? And that there is or at least like some sort of webhook in just or something like that. And is it that they just kind of like took a snapshot in time and they're selling it as is at a certain version or is it getting updates? Like how does that work? But from what I've seen, they've mentioned that it's major version. So you'll probably get whatever versions come from this, but they could potentially say like campfire two is ready. We redid the whole thing. And to be clear, this is not the original campfire that they packaged up from 2008 and threw over the fence. Like it was rebuilt. There's some things that, you know, I wonder, I'm sure they use it internally because they're a decent sized team working with like having been in large communities in Slack and then now working at Discord, I'd be curious to see like some of their design choices around like having and who's in the server like going horizontally. If you have over even a hundred people like scrolling sideways a hundred times is rough. What does pagination look like when you have thousands of people in a campfire? What do rooms look like when you have that many people and notifications and all that kind of stuff? So yeah, chat apps are challenging like persistence and you've got, you know, I think one of the benefits of this is that you don't have the problem that you have a Slack where you can't, if you're on free Slack, you don't get more than 30 days of message retention. So if you're really wanting to have a quote unquote free as long as you maintain it solution, it does seem like a pretty cool thing that you can run. And if you're a fan of 37 signals, then you have another thing to look at. --- Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts