# Statelessness, but make it funny  ## Episode metadata - Episode title: Statelessness, but make it funny - Show: Code Switch - Owner / Host: NPR - Guests: [Mo Amer](https://share.snipd.com/person/49133f93-b17b-420f-8464-5be6fbbca36f) - Episode publish date: 2025-08-13 - Episode AI description: Mo Amer, stand-up comedian and creator of the Netflix series 'Mo', dives deep into the life of a Palestinian refugee navigating the complexities of identity and the American immigration system with humor. He discusses how comedy serves as a tool to address serious immigrant experiences in Houston. Mo shares personal stories about cultural dissonance, code-switching, and the emotional journeys tied to family heritage. He also reflects on the challenges of writing during geopolitical turmoil while advocating for community engagement between Jewish and Palestinian voices. - Duration: 30:42 - Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/58c5ac70-f9a6-4433-881b-67f83c2bb1c0) - Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/010bc8a0-a9fc-452a-9c6e-774dfb093859) - Export date: 2026-02-17T23:26:28 ## Snips ### [Comedy Framed By Real Refugee Experience](https://share.snipd.com/snip/103c786b-a60e-4848-88a4-56fc53e2defd) 🎧 02:04 - 03:51 (01:46) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/81ebc1d6-f5b8-4cf4-9c77-298b6eb007a4" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Mo is a comedy that centers heavy topics like statelessness and the asylum process through humor rooted in lived experience. - Grounding satire in personal truth makes difficult subjects accessible and relatable to broader audiences. #### 💬 Quote > It's a family that's navigating the immigration system and the asylee court system in America. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer describing the premise of Mo #### 📚 Transcript **Gene Demby:** So many of the themes in the show are pulled from his life. And okay, I know it might not sound like it, but Mo is a comedy, a very funny comedy about the many cultural rivers that converge in a place called Houston, Texas. It's a comedy about religion and faith. And it's a comedy about a dude who really, really wants to do the right thing, but just can't get out of his own way. It's **Mo Amer:** based off of a Palestinian family that immigrated to Houston, Texas after the first Gulf War. It's a family that's navigating the immigration system and the asylee court system in America. A Muslim family that's trying to maintain its roots and its faith, all while being stuck in this really difficult immigration process. We **Gene Demby:** should call an emergency UN meeting right now. Muhammad **Mo Amer:** Najjar needs my help. I'm going to make sure he gets home. Okay, **Gene Demby:** I see what you're doing. You see what I'm doing? **Gene Demby:** Yes. On this episode, we are chopping it up with Moe Amher about all of this. The show, his life, a fraught plot line from the most recent season about his family returning to the West Bank, and what it's like to be thrust into the role of spokesperson for Palestinian Americans at this particular moment. Support for this podcast and the following message come from Indeed. You just realized your business needed to hire someone yesterday. Indeed's Sponsored Jobs helps you stand out. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs posted directly on Indeed have 45% more applications than non-sponsored jobs. Speed up your hiring --- ### [Side Hustles Born From Lack Of Papers](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6d35a26c-68cf-4997-992c-ac0f150249cc) 🎧 05:30 - 07:01 (01:31) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/da85432b-01bf-4e70-9a3d-005a787914b6" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Mo Najjar hustles through side jobs because lacking papers prevents legal employment in many places. - Mo Amer says growing up without paperwork produced those pressure-cooker situations that birthed much of his comedy. #### 💬 Quote > Anything to make ends meet because he's an immigrant without paper, so he can't legally work at most places. > — Gene Demby Gene Demby on Mo Najjar's side hustles #### 📚 Transcript **Gene Demby:** Mo Najjar, the character that Mo Ammer plays on Mo, has a grip of side hustles, right? Like, he sells knockoff watches out of the trunk of his car. **Mo Amer:** Man, look at that. Got the boulevard, got the Daytonas. Wow, look at that. Oh! That's right, right. I got the Rolex with the bezel. He's **Gene Demby:** trying to help his mom get her olive oil business off the ground. Come on, you said it was the best damn olive oil you ever had? Imagine what she could do straight from harvest to extraction. He even tries his hand at being a bouncer at a strip club. How **Mo Amer:** y'all doing out there? Welcome to Dream Cabaret. The next dancer coming to the stage. **Gene Demby:** Anything to make ends meet because he's an immigrant without paper, so he can't legally work at most places. Moe Amber told me, yeah, this is just the way it was growing up the way he did, you know, toggling between these different cultural spaces out of necessity. He said those tense situations were a goldmine for comedy. **Mo Amer:** Well, I mean, you know, I've always felt like I was a fish out of water. And any of those situations that you're in where you feel out of place are by nature humorous and create great comedy. So it's really about just leaning into that. And it creates a lot of, you know, relatability in those kind of scenarios. You don't have to be like an immigrant or, you know, a refugee to relate to someone who doesn't fit in right away. Or in my case, I felt like I did fit in or I was, you know, an American, but was never on paper. --- ### [Houston As A Cultural Character](https://share.snipd.com/snip/7a6f6d62-8bdd-4fdf-a3fe-9ee4e5619860) 🎧 08:16 - 09:06 (00:50) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/118b2d55-80e7-48af-be73-3e5c7713fb98" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Houston's cultural mix shapes the show and Mo Amer's voice more than any single identity label could. - The series intentionally reflects Houston's diversity to portray authentic cross-cultural interactions. #### 💬 Quote > Houston is the most diverse city in America. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer on Houston's diversity and the show's setting #### 📚 Transcript **Mo Amer:** Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I've always, and I know the synopsis, obviously, I wrote it, but it's just like every time I've used it, I didn't feel like it was fully, it would fully encapsulate everything within the show because there is so much, you know, I guess this word has become a little bit of a hot topic, but diversity in the show is just a reflection of what Houston is. Houston is the most diverse city in America. Fight me on this, New York. It really, really is such a phenomenal place to grow up in and to make such a mixed friend group that I'm still very close to to this day. And it's just like such a such a really unique environment to grow up in. I don't know how to, you know, describe it more than that. --- ### [Praying At His Father's Grave](https://share.snipd.com/snip/141e0f75-a80e-4670-a5df-451d09afb9f4) 🎧 13:09 - 15:14 (02:04) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/9d0c9b2b-7263-42ba-822e-f4b6e5449cc5" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Mo recreates a real moment of praying at his father's grave and learning his father lacked a marker, which was emotionally wrenching. - He linked that experience to creative closure and ongoing open wounds he keeps stitching up through storytelling. #### 💬 Quote > I found out about my dad. I didn't know he didn't have one. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer recounting discovering his father's grave had no marker #### 📚 Transcript **Gene Demby:** One in season one and the other in season two in which Mo is praying with his relatives. I'm trying not to spoil anything for people who haven't seen it. And what jumped out to me both was how rarely we see Muslims praying on TV, like in American TV, and in American movies that are not meant to denote fanaticism. But the other thing is just how much in both those scenes your character, Mo, is kind of awkward about praying and is sincere about praying. And those feelings of sincerity and reticence, they're sitting next to each other, which a lot of people who are believers feel at some point. **Mo Amer:** It's all, like, really grounded. I mean, it's making me emotional right away when you mention it because it is so real to me to the point where it is what happened in my actual life. You know, in season one, where it's my brother and my sister and I at my father's grave. You know, Jabi, why don't you lead a prayer, okay? **Gene Demby:** Okay. **Mo Amer:** It'll be nice. It'll cleanse your heart. I know it was a rough day. Bismillah. Bismillah. Allahumma man ahiyyaytahu minna, fa ahiyyhi ala al-Islam. Wa man ta... Wa man... Wa man... Wa Uh, may you go visit their father's grave and they're praying for the forgiveness and mercy on their father. Take your time. It's okay, Abiyah. There's no rush. As-salamu alaykum, ahla diyari, min al-mu'minin wa al-Muslimin. Which is a beautiful moment when they find out that he doesn't have a tombstone or a marker, which is true. It's something that I found out about my dad. I know he didn't have one. So it was really tough when i went to go see him and we didn't have like we had a phenomenal relationship and right before he passed and talked about my dad uh we didn't you know there was some growing pains there i was a teenager and my father suddenly passed away and we never really got to reconcile. So that caused me to go into, you know, so many growing pains as a teenager and then figuring out my faith and what I believe. --- ### [Call To Prayer In Burin](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5e060268-03c3-40c3-a04c-783f5425d624) 🎧 15:52 - 17:44 (01:51) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/9149010b-8962-4c79-850d-60e1de4d9950" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - In Burin, Mo agreed to do the call to prayer and accidentally performed it early because the mosque clock was wrong. - A worshipper then recognized his father's name and revealed his father installed the sound system, triggering deep emotion. #### 💬 Quote > Who are you? ... He said, he knew my father. He goes, your father's Mustafa. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer describing the mosque incident in his ancestral village #### 📚 Transcript **Mo Amer:** So that takes me to the West Bank when I went to our village in Burin, which is a very small village of like 3,000 people where my mother and father were born. And I was there and I wanted to go pray in the mosque. And that's where that story unfolded is where I, somebody, you know, my cousin actually with another worshiper that was there at the mosque was like, you should do the call to prayer. You do the call to prayer. How did you feel when they said that? I was really like, what are y'all talking about? And then I was like, you know what? I'm not going to fight this because it's clearly happening for a reason. So just go with it. You know, it's a call from God. Answer it. I did the call to prayer and this man comes in. He's just so angry who did the call to prayer. And they all sell me out. prayer messed up because I did it 10 minutes early, the clock was wrong, I didn't Greatest. know. Why don't they fix the clock? And then the guy, you know, it's such a small village. He was like, who are you? And once I told him who I was, he said, he knew my father. And he goes, your father's Mustafa. I said, yes. He says, oh, my God. And he had a moment where he almost was shaken by it. He goes, you know who installed the sound system? I said, no. He goes, your father did. And then he just started telling me stories about my family and my father's side and this and that. I mean, the whole time he was talking, I'm trying desperately not to just start bawling. So it was just like it was there the whole time. --- ### [Let Characters Drive When Addressing Trauma](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f65628ac-5b2d-4d17-8893-7b2edb05c1db) 🎧 21:00 - 22:58 (01:57) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/f622351c-91c9-42c2-a7a0-1a45811edb89" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Avoid forcing current events into a story when they overwhelm characters and derail the narrative. - Preserve character-driven context and consider addressing big events later when you can provide adequate historical framing. #### 💬 Quote > The preservation of the story and the characters were number one. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer explaining why season two is set before October 7th #### 📚 Transcript **Mo Amer:** And I wanted to know, like, why? We attempted as a writing room to engage in a post-October 7th world, and every time we did, well, there's several problems with it, first of all. Number one is that it's a comedy show, first and foremost. And then, you know, if we do talk about October 7th, to me, the biggest issue is that the family doesn't get to go to Palestine, right? They don't get to go to Tel Aviv, and they surely don't get to go visit their family in the West Bank, which I've never seen on American television before or any network, quite frankly. So that's huge. Second of all, it became really didactic and, you know, it became outside of the characters. You lost track of the entire narrative completely. And it just completely engulfed the whole series with this topic. Thirdly is that you're timing the thing now, for sure. So the show will come out a year after everything has unfolded. So many things are changing from day to day, and you don't know how it's all going to look like a year from now. It's a very, very dangerous thing to do, and I didn't want to do that or make any mistakes in that. And that's really difficult. And then fourth reason is that, you know, people have no context of what it was like prior to October 7th. Everyone thinks it started. on October 7th, and that's not accurate, right? This has been going on for well over 75 years. Those people from Gaza, from the Nakba, from 1948, they used to live in the Israeli territory. They were pushed into that corner, and they've been subjugated to that, you know, area since, you know, since then. So it's like how, you know, if we were going to do it, we have to do it in a season three, basically. --- ### [Pre-Event Setting Preserves Nuance](https://share.snipd.com/snip/29e8ea09-df45-4698-8ebf-f1e9321f2f1d) 🎧 22:58 - 24:00 (01:02) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/6b23da07-5bb2-4c35-ba75-5762f3259db9" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Setting the season before October 7th lets viewers see life as it was rather than reduce the show to reactionary commentary. - That choice preserves nuance about Palestinian lives and long-term historical context. #### 💬 Quote > People have no context of what it was like prior to October 7th. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer on why depicting pre-October 7th life matters #### 📚 Transcript **Mo Amer:** You know what I mean? It's like we have to have a peek into what was lifelike pre-October 7th. The preservation of the story and the characters were number one. And I really wanted them to go to Palestine. This is our country. See how beautiful it is? **Mo Amer:** Look at the olive trees. **Mo Amer:** It was a love letter to my family, to Burin, the village of Burin, my grandparents. It was one of the hardest things that I've ever done in my life creatively and it was just really, really difficult to put together. And although I saw the story so clearly and vividly, it was still experientially like really, really hard and extremely emotional. And it was felt at times that I was doing something that was very dangerous. But also I feel like we made something that was never inflammatory and very human and very loving and very caring and thoughtful. And that's what we landed on. --- ### [Portraying Detention With Complexity](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1cc71407-1755-4fd1-82dd-e9010051304f) 🎧 26:23 - 28:04 (01:41) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/6e8e21c7-6171-425d-b483-ccddd12d4bcd" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Mo intentionally shows detention centers and detainees' varied experiences to reveal parts of the immigration system rarely depicted. - Portraying guards' own struggles adds moral complexity and humanizes the system's actors. #### 💬 Quote > I wanted to go in a detention center. Like, I've never seen that in a show ever. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer discussing choosing to depict detention centers in the show #### 📚 Transcript **Gene Demby:** Like, you know, again, the mundane humulations of our, you know, immigration bureaucracy, right? The displacement of Palestinian people. How much of that was, like, on purpose trying to be, I guess, topical? How much of that was just like the news cycle kind of finding y'all? **Mo Amer:** It's the news just finding us. And like I've been so ahead of the curve on this, to be honest with you. Like everyone asked me, how are you so relevant? Like so good. I was like, man, I've been doing this for a minute. And I've known this has been an issue for quite some time. It just happens to be bubbling to the surface, right? So this is not anything new. I'm not like, you know, it's just like I've been on it. You know, I've been on it and I just knew this was going to be it. And I could tell very quickly that this is something that needs to be addressed. And I've never seen addressed in this way. That's why I wanted to go in a detention center. Like, I've never seen that in a show ever. Come on, at least tell me how long I'm going to be here. 48 to 72 hours. Let **Mo Amer:** me do an air quotes. That's how long it's supposed to be. It could be a couple of weeks, maybe as long as a month, and that's before you maybe get sent to an ICE facility. Get the fuck in there. Come **Mo Amer:** on, honey. Get the fuck in there. could be in Guantanamo with your friends. Don't be like that, Jack. Jack! Just let me make the call, Jack! And I think that's really fascinating. That's what gets me excited as a creative, to tap into stuff that I've never seen before on television. And to really be able to go in there and do it justice in a very short period of time is masterful, honestly, and that's what I sought out to do. --- ### [Detention Officer's Human Pressure](https://share.snipd.com/snip/27695c25-73ee-4c1f-b6bc-7eeca8c768f6) 🎧 29:29 - 30:26 (00:57) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/afa032b8-8707-406a-89da-96339ee90533" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Mo imagined detention officers as people trapped by economic pressures who face daily moral erosion. - He used that view to craft dialogue showing a guard who feels squeezed by family obligations and financial stress. #### 💬 Quote > The choice that I have is do I go home at night and blow my fucking brains out or do I get up in the morning and come back here... > — Mo Amer Mo Amer recounting imagined detention officer's monologue #### 📚 Transcript **Mo Amer:** These guys go to work, you know, maybe five, six, seven days a week. God knows, you know, and they're essentially dying slowly inside. So I'm like, what is the spiritual state of a detention officer's heart? Why you got to treat people like trash? Where's your heart in all this? You've been here what, two to three days? I'm here every fucking day. Does she have a choice? No, what I have is a family. I've got two special needs **Gene Demby:** kids. I've got a mother-in living in my fucking house. I've got a leak I cannot pay for. Okay? The choice that I have is do I go home at night and blow my fucking brains out or do I get up in the morning and come back here and deal with shit like you again and again and again? That's the choice that you're talking about. So do me a favor. Take **Mo Amer:** your fucking ring, go get married, and get out of my face. Take care of yourself, Jack. --- ### [Speaking For Humanity At A Rally](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f03a18a1-434c-4322-b450-60f1f4842b0e) 🎧 30:57 - 32:53 (01:55) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/00f899f0-df71-4755-a648-d07b25183341" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - After October 7th Mo spoke at a D.C. rally focusing on humanity rather than partisan politics. - He felt compelled to use voice and presence when people needed support, even though public speaking isn't his primary craft. #### 💬 Quote > I don't really care about politics. I care about the humanity. > — Mo Amer Mo Amer reflecting on giving a speech after October 7th #### 📚 Transcript **Gene Demby:** But you've, you know, I remember that in the immediate aftermath of the Hamas attack on Israel and Israel's subsequent bombardment and takeover much of Gaza, you gave a speech at a rally in D.C. Just **Mo Amer:** taking a moment to soak you all up, every single one of you. I didn't really intend on speaking today. This is all really spontaneous. But seeing everything that's happening is just making my heart bleed. But we are an example of what it could be, what life could be, what hope do I have after leaving here today. And I thank you so much for gathering my Jewish brothers and sisters, our Palestinian brothers and sisters from any denomination. I'm not, I don't have any political affiliation. I don't really care about politics. I care about the humanity. **Gene Demby:** I'm just curious, you know, about the kind of responses you received from that speech. **Mo Amer:** Yeah, I am a comedian. I'm an artist first. I'm a, you know, stand-up. I'm a director. I'm a creator. I'm a writer. This thing about speaking at rallies not really my forte. It's not really, you know, what I do. Um, it's something that I was asked to be present at by the Jewish voice for peace. A bunch of young, uh, Jewish folks and young Palestinians were getting together to try to do the right thing and talk sense into, you know, politicians in D.C. And I think that it's very, very important. Whenever you see, I was raised as whenever you see something that is, you know, is not good, that's happening in front of you, if it's happening directly in front of you, if you can fix it with your hands, then do it. If you can fix it with your words, then do it. If you can do either of those things, then it in your heart, really hate it in your heart. --- Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts