# The Decline of Technical Influencers (Ep 96)  ## Episode metadata - Episode title: The Decline of Technical Influencers (Ep 96) - Show: Community Pulse - Owner / Host: Mary Thengvall - Episode publish date: 2025-04-15 - Duration: 50:52 - Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/dde70047-1048-4f99-a822-9fec54766794) - Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/558ab5f5-a9ce-46bc-aebb-9b6a42ad68ed) - Export date: 2026-02-17T23:35:46 ## Snips ### [Defining True Tech Influencers](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b9704b51-fad8-49e0-b2b4-9c11e5948809) 🎧 01:14 - 02:08 (00:54) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/ec01636e-7fdc-404d-be68-484b58e86d56" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Tech influencers should be defined as experts whose content is widely consumed in the tech industry. - Many videos confuse genuine tech influencers with tech TikTokers who are a different category. #### 💬 Quote > When I think of tech influencers, I think of people like Kelsey Hightower... When he says something, people are re-skeeting it. > — PJ Hagerty PJ Hagerty on defining tech influencers #### 📚 Transcript I, I, I'd love to jump in real quick. Like, I think that there's some conflation here because it seems that, and, and, and maybe this'll be probably be clear when people are actually watching the videos, people are referring to influencer and like developer advocate and developer relations person with no boundaries between those things. Also self-proclaiming themselves as influencers, which I have a real problem with. But I mean, like, I think that when you talk about tech influencers, you talk about, in my mind, the definition should be people that are producing content that is massively consumed by people in the technology fields. And when I think of tech influencers, I think of people like Kelsey Hightower, like is the first off top man. When he says something, people are re-skeeting it. They are talking about, there's a conversation, you know, Ian Coldwater falls into that. They say something and everyone wants to respond. --- ### [Why Developer Advocates Dominate Talks](https://share.snipd.com/snip/b2f41912-4aee-4f31-ac1a-41f04ee51237) 🎧 02:42 - 04:04 (01:22) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/9da957b0-2cd1-4664-8f2f-81de85539b81" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Developer advocates often succeed on stage because they know how to prepare and are incentivized to speak. - Some perceive an overrepresentation of DevRel at conferences based on biased observations or single events. #### 💬 Quote > We are seeing more developer advocates on stages because they know how to put a CFP together. They know how to put slides together... > — Jason Hand Jason Hand on DevRel presence at conferences #### 📚 Transcript Well, let's just drill down that, not just taking over all the talks, but the fact that developer advocates, companies are paying so that developer advocates and DevRel people can have talks. Now, wherever this is happening, I've not been there. I don't know where these conferences are occurring that someone is paying to have their dev advocates be on stage. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. It's part your salary, but it's not above and beyond. Yes. But I have yet to, and I've gone to some pretty glitzy and marketing heavy conferences. And I have yet to see a conference where every single talk is a developer advocate pushing a product. Are they mentioning their products? Yes. Are they wearing the swag and putting up the logo? Yes. But I don't think that's a thing. I think that's a weird perception. And I'd love to know where it comes from. I think it's a conclusion based on someone's bias. That's what it sounded like to me. Like they see, they went to maybe one bad conference that had this or one bad talk that someone got selected for and extrapolating that out as an industry-wide occurrence. I think we are seeing more developer advocates on stages because they know how to put a CFP together. They know how to put slides together. They're incentivized to go to multiple talks. And they pay for their own travel. --- ### [Conferences Restrict DevRel Speakers](https://share.snipd.com/snip/522a8fd1-aba5-4320-8281-6549888a5cf0) 🎧 04:53 - 08:52 (03:59) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/2880ba79-e67f-4d24-abdf-1a986f9c5a60" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Conferences often reject DevRel speakers or treat product mentions as sales pitches. - This hard stance reduces opportunities and visibility for authentic DevRel voices. #### 💬 Quote > There’s some conferences that just crack down so hard on like, no, if you’re a dev advocate... unless it’s a community or dev rel conference, absolutely not. > — Mary Thengvall Mary Thengvall on conference speaking restrictions #### 📚 Transcript Well, and I wonder too, like, I've at least seen at a number of companies where companies are, even if the DevRel team still exists, they are putting less money into the DevRel budget. So like, it's entirely possible that there are fewer DevRel people speaking at conferences, because there are companies saying, I don't want you speaking at as many conferences, right? Like it could be completely not related to the person's desire. But more so the company saying, nope, not worth our time, not worth our energy to be at those conferences anymore, which is a topic we've talked about with conference sponsorships and attendance and everything else a number of times now. all been we've all been to conferences where you see like the theater stage in the expo hall which is intended for like the marketing teams and the product teams to actually do that sort of type of talk so those do exist i will also say that me as a as an advocate at datadog we do get opportunities with our partners to go speak at conferences that they put on and just different events that we are, you know, and this is sort of, I think, differentiates a lot of advocacy teams, you know, around the world and how people are set up, especially going back to an episode we talked about, about maturity that Mary had brought up, you know, I don't know, several months back. some companies will come in and they've got like new people on their advocacy team. They've never they don't have a lot of experience on stage putting together talks. They may be given an opportunity to be on stage and and given their CFP in the title, it looked like it was going to be one thing. And then it was something else. Like, I think we've all experienced. Yeah. Right. And it's a really bad feeling where we're just like, Oh no, like we gave you an opportunity to shine and you, you, you tanked, you know, and I bet you anything, you took the guidance of your marketing and sales folks on what to say and do on stage. And this is a bad, this is bad for you and them. And it will be for a long time. Anyway, I think that's like one element that, that you do see, you know, because I don't think you don't ever see it. I think it's more that it's not quite as pervasive as she painted the picture that this is occurring. I mean, I've been in situations, I've organized conferences where we made it very clear, like no sales pitch, no sales pitch on stage. You can talk about your product and how you use it in relation to what you're talking about. That's fine, but no sales pitch. And I've, I've literally physically thrown people off of stages before because, okay, I didn't throw them on stage. I have removed people from stages before because they didn't, they violated this rule. It looked like that video is being recorded inside an expo hall at a conference somewhere, probably fresh off of a talk where they were really triggered by a terrible speaker. I don't know. I'm making assumptions, but I felt that same way too. I've walked out of, of a, you know, a conference room session being like, wow, like that was, that was bad. And you know, the content was good. The speaker was good, but they, they, they pivoted somewhere and it turned it into this whole marketing thing. And that really can set people off. Well, and I know with my team back in the day, like there were some conferences where we were having a hard time getting a talk to even like to get the abstract even considered because of the title of the person applying, right? Like there's some conferences that just crack down so hard on like, no, if you're a dev advocate, a developer relations engineer, community manager, any of those, like unless it's a community or dev rel conference, like absolutely not, you're not speaking here. --- ### [Lack of Authenticity Hurts Tech Influence](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0a95caf9-5cdb-4b82-8f84-122829f62ec0) 🎧 09:58 - 11:11 (01:12) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/316648a0-1982-452d-81ee-106e5fba8044" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Tech influencers often lack the deep expertise to back their claims. - This superficiality drives distrust and diminishes the value of tech influencer content. #### 💬 Quote > Who wants to listen to a bunch of people who don't know what the hell they're talking about? > — PJ Hagerty PJ Hagerty on superficial tech influencer content #### 📚 Transcript Well, and I think that this brings us back to the main, like, is there a decline in the content of tech influencers? And I think that in a way is like, A, tech influencers is low key. It's an overloaded term. It's a terrible idea. We're not selling clothes. We're not selling, you know, cars or perfumes or makeup tutorials. We shouldn't be thinking of ourselves as influencers. We're supposed to be educators. And if you're coming on and you're saying, and I thought this is a great example of the second lady made, Josie made, that if you're coming on and you're just like, you don't really have the tech to back up what you're saying. And you're just saying things to be controversial. Like, oh, fuck unit testing. We don't do any unit testing. It's like, yeah, okay. It's a take and you're allowed to have it. But if you've never actually written a test anyway, because you're not actually writing code and you're just an influencer. Well, yeah, I think that contributes to the decline because who wants to listen to a bunch of people who don't know what the hell they're talking about? Or don't have the road experience or the background to actually back up what they're saying. They're just saying words that marketers have put in their mouths. And I hate to say, that's a major part of the influencer market. --- ### [Generic Content Drives Influence](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a1a2727d-230c-4ca7-9064-ef3f5bdce78e) 🎧 11:54 - 12:40 (00:46) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/2a25ea10-d50d-42f5-a737-3d868c24bfe9" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Influencers aim to maximize reach by being generic and spreading their content thinly. - This leads to SEO-driven content with little depth or technical explanation. #### 💬 Quote > You're just doing an SEO search. Find what word salad or acronyms that you need to throw in there to get your views, to get your rewarded... > — Jason Hand Jason Hand on influencers gaming algorithms #### 📚 Transcript it or what NCP stands for yeah so that's one thing that kills me about a lot of the tech influencer stuff it's like yo I'm here to talk to you about LLMs blah blah blah can you tell me what an LLM is because it seems to me that you don't know what an LLM is and you have not defined those letters so you're just doing a SEO search. Find what word salad or acronyms that you need to throw in there to get your views, to get your rewarded in terms of getting your – you're working with your sponsors now that they need to make sure you hit those certain numbers. And I think that's what's driving – I don't want to call it AI slot, but I think it's influencer slot where they're trying just to game algorithms. And that's the thing that just is dominating. --- ### [Passion Distinguishes Genuine Influence](https://share.snipd.com/snip/691a4a4b-8090-4e98-af14-ed6611c0076e) 🎧 13:52 - 15:31 (01:38) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/007ce431-0c9c-42b6-91c8-50d5fb551f44" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - True influence arises from passion and genuine excitement about technology. - Capital I influencers focused on marketing fail to inspire or educate authentically. #### 💬 Quote > It was about the passion... I would get so jazzed to talk about open source... That’s what this is. > — PJ Hagerty PJ Hagerty on passion in tech influence #### 📚 Transcript difference to me between capital I influencers who make their money based on advertisements, referrals. What's the thing called when you get a percentage of a purchase, that thing. Like when someone clicks on your link and then you get part of the money that they spent. Yeah. Affiliate linking. Affiliate linking, royalties, any of that. Like someone who makes their living solely based on that is very different to me than someone like what you were talking about earlier, PJ, where it's coming from a place of excitement and genuine in the industry right right so to me like those capital i influencers i i don't follow them on instagram i don't trust what they have to say most of the time but the the people who are actually in the weeds doing things that when they come back and go, oh my gosh, I tried this new thing. I have this new product. I'm super excited to see what so-and is doing. That's what I tend to listen to. And I think that that general statement is when I see developer relations folks being successful, when it's genuine and authentic and coming from a place of, to your point, excitement and joy, rather than the, oh, everybody knows they just did a quick Google search and then wrote a blog post about this, --- ### [Audience Maturity Outgrows Content](https://share.snipd.com/snip/c8d779bc-b9d1-4fcf-a9c7-46ebf4bc047c) 🎧 15:52 - 18:11 (02:18) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/1512e6d0-a93b-4e18-9055-20f7ad0457cc" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Many influencers focus on entry-level knowledge and gaining followers rather than deep expertise. - Some leave tech to pursue actual skills or get bored creating repetitive introductory content. #### 💬 Quote > People are going back to school to re-up and get the skills for the things that they were being influencers about. > — Jason Hand Jason Hand on influencers going back to school #### 📚 Transcript Yeah. Yeah. And that's not necessarily to their fault. You it's just that they don't have those opportunities, the to doing a lot of these things. And I think a lot of them maybe are newer to DevRel, newer to the in general, not necessarily always younger, but maybe just newer to the stuff. And, but, you know, I think this really puts a spotlight on the differentiators between influencers, air quotes, like the Kelsey Hightowers and the Scott Hanselmans and the others that PJ mentioned. And then those who are more like in this group, you know, the videos we're talking about, we'll share in our show notes, go watch them on TikTok. Those two folks I've never heard of, I've never met. And that doesn't necessarily mean anything. But I do think that there's this other body of influencers, and even within DevRel, perhaps, who are really only focused on the awareness. Like I have a big, I've amassed a large body of followers. They like me for a variety of reasons. Sometimes they're very specific reasons. I have a niche. have like, you know, I have whatever. But maybe it's like I talk about AI or I talk about, you know, whatever it could be. But they have like people that listen to them for certain reasons. But at the same time, they're not necessarily seasoned developers. They're sort of like looking to these folks of what's the new thing. And you're new to this space. the other thing that i think that one that um one of the people in the video talked about too is uh that the a lot of them i think have dropped out of tech influencing or dev rel or whatever and have decided to go back to school or to go you know pivot in some ways and do other things. And some of that kind of indicates to me that, you know, they've gotten in here and they've sort of taught people everything that they know, you know, they've educated up to the level that they are, but they don't have that experience to sort of get to the next level of advocacy and show people how to build things in production and to make sure we don't say things like don't use unit tests and smoke tests. And like, yeah, if you want to, you know, do something like that. And I, I, I pushed to main, you know, on my, on my side projects, but like, that's not a thing you do. Right. And I think everybody knows that, but there are people who, who sort of game the controversy of, of, of stuff. --- ### [Authenticity Outperforms Influence](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6bc75ad6-8838-4b40-b4ff-709dd06735ce) 🎧 30:27 - 31:34 (01:06) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/c2328819-11c8-40dc-8e65-dbb305617302" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Authenticity trumps influencer marketing in tech adoption and success. - Genuine endorsements from knowledgeable insiders outperform paid influencer campaigns. #### 💬 Quote > We spent millions of dollars on influencers and that didn't bring us back the return. Our organic work did 70% better. > — PJ Hagerty PJ Hagerty on authentic tech advocacy vs influencer marketing #### 📚 Transcript It's just, it's not. And I think that like, I think it goes back to that authenticity standpoint. Right. We're actually talking about at work, there was one thing that we did with one influencer that did work really well, but it's because he was really interested in the product and he came to us and said, hey, is it cool if I talk about this? And we were like, sure. And he's like, usually, you know, I don't want to make it weird, but I do get paid for this. And like, we'll pay for one episode. And he did five. And it's like, cool. That's different than us chasing someone, any, any organization chasing someone down and saying, I'll give you a million dollars. If you talk about how awesome fire festival is going to be and get people to come to fire festival. If you can do this for me, a the Kardashians, then I will give you this money. Oh my God, come to my great party. Yeah. And then you end up with a cheese sandwich and a bad tent. Well, and again, it goes back to, do you actually have the experience about the thing that you're talking about to represent it properly and also be able to back it up, right? --- ### [Layoffs Diminish Tech Enthusiasm](https://share.snipd.com/snip/202d990c-2c83-4317-bdf2-bc4d97863309) 🎧 34:17 - 35:31 (01:13) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/16adb8d7-2e84-4617-bd3d-f3c0df4b59a6" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Job layoffs and financial worries kill tech content creator enthusiasm. - Being unemployed makes it hard to stay excited about technology and content creation. #### 💬 Quote > It's hard to be excited about anything technological when you don't have a job. > — PJ Hagerty PJ Hagerty on influence decline due to layoffs #### 📚 Transcript I think that, and this goes along with burnout, this goes along with a lot of things, it is hard to be excited about anything technological when you don't have a job. Wesley we've all talked about this how am I supposed to be excited about something when I'm worried about paying my bills when I'm worried about where my meals are coming from when I'm worried about why I automatically threw a thumbs up that was not necessary thank you stream yard but like you know I think that a lot of people who are like I've got this great job I'm super excited about the products we make I'm super excited about the tools we build and the code that we write and the languages we use. I'm excited about it. I don't have a job. I'm suddenly a lot less excited about those things. And I don't think that's unique to my situation, but, and Chris DeMars did mention on that, that sincerity, because he is currently looking for a position. It's hard to be excited and make content about things when you are like so worried about everything else. Yeah. Yeah. No, totally, totally agreed with that. And I think in addition to being concerned about finances, like there's, there's also the, I'm just tired. --- ### [Algorithms Promote Sensationalism](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d8d91219-7428-4c90-a00e-75120f87ad1c) 🎧 37:42 - 39:24 (01:41) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/ef01d2b3-0c9d-48aa-93c3-63fa186593ac" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Platform algorithms reward shocking or shallow content to increase views. - This drives creators toward sensationalism and reduces quality of tech content online. #### 💬 Quote > Platforms love that stuff because people get a reaction out of them... it creates more eyeballs, more revenue. > — Jason Hand Jason Hand on social media algorithm effects #### 📚 Transcript It's also the risk has been amplified. And some of it's because you can put something out today that is true today, but then is false or is misleading or is not 100% accurate literally tomorrow at the pace of change with AI getting involved. And so it's hard to put something out knowing that it's just going to be either taken out of context or just it's not valuable anymore because, you know, something's changed. I'm going to through that too. I'm, I'm all shared in our, when we get to sharing our stuff at the end here, but I'm going through sort of a re-imagining of how I can help people, you know, cause I'm the same way. Like I don't write blog posts anymore. I don't really want to put that stuff out there that same way. I reject a lot of the social media platforms but never going to on twitter again there's just you know but i think there's ways that we can still like help people educate people inspire people without being this like super bowl endorsement type of level which i think is is kind of what we're talking about when we're talking about influencers like they've got a lot of eyeballs and it's just like a super bowl commercial where in the traditional marketing models the more that you can get your brand in front of people, including billboards and commercials and, you know, side of buses, the more you do leads to more sales. That's all they know. Yeah. There's no bad more of it. Just get more of it out there. I don't care if it's bad more and. And that's dangerous, especially in AI. But to me, that's what that sort of slice of tech influencers, that's their bread and butter. --- ### [Take Vacations and Avoid Scams](https://share.snipd.com/snip/1bcae7fd-7d32-4ed6-a2b6-6152c8aa1515) 🎧 48:07 - 49:57 (01:50) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/e6b08379-687b-4518-b68c-75252dde8ea5" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Take vacations to relieve pressure and restore energy. - Avoid getting caught up in scams like Fyre Festival 2 by researching before investing. #### 💬 Quote > Take vacations... Because I mentioned it and I looked it up... Fyre Festival 2 is a real thing. Don’t go. > — PJ Hagerty PJ Hagerty advising on vacations and scams #### 📚 Transcript Very cool. My checkouts are also not DevRel related and also seemingly out of nowhere but like i think they're they're important the first is is take vacations everybody um i think i may have had this as a checkout before but so last week i went to greece with my wife we had a wonderful time we did very few things we did things we wanted to do but then we did very few things and we just relaxed and you need to do this people like the world is just adding pressure after pressure after pressure take the time to be a human being for yourself and your loved ones uh apropos of nothing but because i mentioned it and i looked it up while we were talking fire festival 2 is a real thing don go. Um, fire fest. I, I, the link will be in the show notes. Fire festival two. not check out the link. Like if you think that you like, if you click on the link that I put there and you think this is a good idea, I want you to then go to Hulu or Netflix. Either one doesn't matter. Watch the Fyre Festival documentary and see how this man is about to rip you off. If you still think it's a good idea, please send me money. I will buy you your ticket. I have a great ticket buying thing. So if you think Fyre Festival 2 is great and you want to $500 on a ticket, I will send you my Venmo. You can send me the $500. I'll provide you with a ticket. And a brilliant bridge here in New York City. But yeah, sorry. Like I said it during the episode, I was like, I thought I heard something about that. No, actually it is real. And God, I don't know what's wrong with the world. But yeah. Thank you. Shout out to Wesley who had to leave. had engagement to take care of halfway through the episode, but he he some great insights. --- Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts