# WordCamp Europe 2027
## Episode metadata
- Episode title: WordCamp Europe 2027
- Show: KrautPress Podcast
- Owner / Host: KrautPress
- Guests: [Delia Carballo](https://share.snipd.com/person/5092a721-277e-447f-8429-b4de8ff7642a)
- Episode publish date: 2026-06-06
- Episode AI description: Delia Carballo, local lead for WordCamp Europe 2027 in Málaga and community organizer, talks event planning and logistics. She covers dates (May 27–29), venue choices, local climate quirks like the Terral wind. Hear about Málaga’s seaside, Arabic heritage, top sights, day trips, must-try foods like espeto and campero, and travel and hotel conveniences for attendees.
- Duration: 15:21
- Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/6e1ebb10-197a-4aa9-a3f6-7e112bd6621c)
- Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/e8f6213c-b2a6-4816-8b5c-cf4d08e7f79d)
- Export date: 2026-07-08T01:11:42
## Snips
### [WordCamp Europe 2027 Confirmed For Málaga](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0e701c05-ca11-4aac-89d0-51975ecad886)
🎧 00:37 - 01:46 (01:08)
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- WordCamp Europe 2027 will be held in Málaga, Spain from May 27 to 29, 2027.
- Delia Carballo celebrates that this is the first time WCEU revisits a country and sees it as an opportunity rather than a disadvantage.
#### 💬 Quote
> You are coming to visit us to Málaga.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo announcing Málaga as the 2027 host city
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** Where you are coming? For
**Simon Kraft:** WordCamp Europe. I mean, I know where I'm going always. You
**Delia Carballo:** are coming to visit us to Málaga. I
**Simon Kraft:** have sound effects here.
**Delia Carballo:** Okay, you put it after. Don't
**Simon Kraft:** do sound effects in the podcast, no. That is really exciting. I think it's the first time WordCamp Europe is revisiting, not the same city, but revisiting a country, Spain.
**Delia Carballo:** Yes, it is the first time.
**Simon Kraft:** Does that make a difference?
**Delia Carballo:** I don't know if it's going to be different, that it's the second time that the WorldCamp Europe is in Spain. But it's a special WorldCamp because we opened the door to revisit other countries. So
**Simon Kraft:** it didn't make a difference for like the application or anything that it was Spain before? Were you worried that that might reduce your chances of getting to do it?
**Delia Carballo:** We knew it was going to be hard that they choose Spain a second time. But we said, OK, we have nothing to lose. here we go. lucky us. Congratulations.
---
### [Book Travel Early For The Slightly Earlier Dates](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4189b09e-c7ad-4fa2-974b-f4aba60c2d7f)
🎧 02:30 - 03:18 (00:47)
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- Dates are slightly earlier than usual: May 27–29, 2027, so plan travel and local arrangements accordingly.
- Delia explained the venue booking forced choosing the week earlier because the first week of June was already booked.
#### 💬 Quote
> From 27th to 29th.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on the exact dates for WordCamp Europe 2027
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** Yes. We're slightly earlier, right?
**Delia Carballo:** Yes, from 27th to 29th.
**Simon Kraft:** So end of May.
**Delia Carballo:** Yes. It's
**Simon Kraft:** a week early. And I think if I know my behind the scenes stuff about WordCamp Europe, I usually do you have two weeks that you can pick from right for for the application I think there's some leeway in there that you don't have to be the first week of June but you can be a bit early or a bit late I'm there's in the past I think there
**Delia Carballo:** is something about the holidays you want to steer clear
**Simon Kraft:** of like all the major... We
**Delia Carballo:** talked to the venue people and the first week of June was already booked.
---
### [Expect Hot Terral Winds In Málaga](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e82510c2-a056-4607-9d72-f0ad91514c0f)
🎧 03:23 - 04:20 (00:57)
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- Málaga experiences a local hot wind called Terral that can make temperatures feel oven-like.
- Delia highlighted Terral as a unique local climate factor attendees might notice during late May events.
#### 💬 Quote
> We have a special wind in Málaga that we call Terral.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo describing Málaga's distinctive hot wind
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** Let's just look at today's weather.
**Delia Carballo:** Today is 30 degrees. Oh, that's plenty. Yeah, it is. It's the first heat wave.
**Simon Kraft:** You only now have the first heat wave. We've been through two already in Germany.
**Delia Carballo:** Well, it's the first that this kind of. We have a special wind in Málaga that we call Terral. Oh,
**Simon Kraft:** that's pretty.
**Delia Carballo:** Well, and it comes from the center of the country. And it's so hot that when you open the window, you feel like you open the oven.
**Simon Kraft:** You're not doing a great job at selling this WordCamp.
**Delia Carballo:** No, I explain this because this week we had Terral. So it's because it was, that is why it has been so hot yesterday or something. But it was because of the wind.
**Simon Kraft:** Okay.
**Delia Carballo:** Hot wind. That is special from Málaga.
---
### [La Manquita Cathedral Celebrated For Its Imperfection](https://share.snipd.com/snip/16e156a0-2527-4ef9-96e0-3d5fe87cec27)
🎧 04:50 - 05:54 (01:04)
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- Málaga's cultural mix emphasizes the sea and Arabic heritage with landmarks like the Alcazaba and the Cathedral called La Manquita.
- Delia explained the cathedral's unfinished tower is deliberately left incomplete, making it a beloved local quirk.
#### 💬 Quote
> They decided not to finish it.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on why Málaga's cathedral is known as La Manquita
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** Definitely. Okay. Not in that, but I think the sea is very important in Málaga, as well as Arabic culture. So we have all the monuments. most important monuments in Malaga are, we have the Alcazaba and the Cathedral that is known as La Manquita. Manco is when somebody doesn't have one and it's because there is one tower that is not finished.
**Simon Kraft:** Oh, so there's an amputated tower.
**Delia Carballo:** Yeah, but it sounds horrible. They
**Simon Kraft:** just didn't finish building it.
**Delia Carballo:** Yeah, but they wanted to finish, but now nobody wants to finish it because it's La Manquita. You know, it's a nice name to... If you finish, that is a normal cathedral. They decided not to finish it.
**Simon Kraft:** I think that's a really charming kind of philosophy to be like, it doesn't have to be perfect to
**Delia Carballo:** be special. It's our cathedral. We love it as it is. So they decided not to finish.
---
### [Leave Time To Walk Málaga's Compact Center](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2ccb3f1-e099-49b2-871e-971565d43cbb)
🎧 06:11 - 07:07 (00:55)
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- Plan extra time to walk Málaga's compact center where major sights are close together and very walkable.
- Delia recommends the port lighthouse La Farola and the hill Gibralfaro for panoramic city views.
#### 💬 Quote
> In some minutes you can see everything.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on Málaga's walkable central attractions
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** If we go there for working in Europe, which of course is the main attraction, should I plan for some time around that just to stay in Malaga or in the area to look at some things? In
**Delia Carballo:** the center of the city, the important monuments are in the small area. So you can see a lot of things. We have a lot of museums as well. You should go to the port to see the lighthouse. You have the lighthouse that is called La Farola. And it's very typical as well in Malaga. And everything is very near each other. It's pretty walkable. Yes, walkable. In some minutes you can see everything. You should go up the... There is a hill, it's called Gibral Faro. From there you can see the whole city and it's a very beautiful view.
---
### [Try Espeto De Sardina Cooked On The Beach](https://share.snipd.com/snip/66c029d7-0ba6-4229-b396-a3e089145e60)
🎧 07:34 - 08:27 (00:53)
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- Try local dishes like espeto de sardina, skewered sardines grilled over a beach sand fire inside a boat-shaped trough.
- Delia described the traditional cooking method using sand, a fire, and wooden sticks on the beach.
#### 💬 Quote
> You put in a stick a wooden stick and you cook on a fire in a boat.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo describing espeto de sardina preparation
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** You can have really nice food. What
**Simon Kraft:** kind of food are we looking at? Is it like seafood? Yes,
**Delia Carballo:** if you like fish, you have plenty of kinds of fish to try and you should try something that is called espeto de sardina oh
**Simon Kraft:** oh okay
**Delia Carballo:** it's fish that you put in a stick a wooden stick and you cook on a fire in a boat i mean it's really special you have a boat you fill it with sand, you make the fire and you put the sticks in this.
**Simon Kraft:** Is the boat on the water? No,
**Delia Carballo:** it's in the sand.
**Simon Kraft:** Okay. You
**Delia Carballo:** have the sand and you have, yeah. Setting
**Simon Kraft:** the boat on fire while you're on the ocean sounds like a bad idea. Okay. Makes way more sense
**Delia Carballo:** like that. Maybe I don't, but it's really strange. There is no another way to explain. That is very typical.
---
### [Venue Is A Modern Wave Shaped Congress Center](https://share.snipd.com/snip/81d7c7a5-a29c-49c4-b606-6a4b9e6d0395)
🎧 09:00 - 10:02 (01:02)
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- The conference will be at Palacio de Ferias y Congresos de Málaga, a modern, wave-shaped congress center.
- Delia likened the venue's architecture to sea waves, reinforcing Málaga's maritime theme.
#### 💬 Quote
> I think the architecture is like the sea, because it's like waves.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo describing the Málaga congress center architecture
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** Yes.
**Delia Carballo:** Where
**Simon Kraft:** are we going to spend all the amazing time we will not spend on the beach or by the lighthouse or on the hill? Well,
**Delia Carballo:** I say in Spanish, Palacio de Ferias y Congresos de Málaga. Okay. So
**Simon Kraft:** the Málaga Congress Center. Congress Center.
**Delia Carballo:** Yeah. I'm
**Simon Kraft:** trying to look at pictures, but their website isn't really good. Oh, oh.
**Delia Carballo:** Well, did you? Oh, yeah, yes. That is very nice photo. It's, I think. Let's try
**Simon Kraft:** to explain what that looks like. Well,
**Delia Carballo:** I think the architecture is like the sea, because it's like waves. So that is not the, you can see it better for another side, but the roof, it's like this, like waves. It a wavy shape. So, yes, we have the sea, you know, the sea is, everything is in spirit, I think.
**Simon Kraft:** And it's quite the modern, quite a modern place.
---
### [Málaga Is Well Connected And Used To Big Events](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3b5e3dcf-ee9d-4977-be75-ecebf2518dca)
🎧 10:18 - 10:51 (00:33)
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- Málaga is battle-tested for large events like Comic Con and is highly touristic with many direct flights, aiding accessibility.
- Delia emphasized good flight connections and abundant hotels make attendance easier for international visitors.
#### 💬 Quote
> We celebrate the Comic Con. The Malaga Comic Con. So it's a battle-tested venue.
> — Simon Kraft
Simon Kraft noting the venue's experience hosting large events
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** Okay,
**Simon Kraft:** so we talked about food, we talked about the venue, we talked about sightseeing. I guess Malaga because it is a bit of a touristy region, right? So there's hotels there. Yes,
**Delia Carballo:** it's a very touristic region.
**Simon Kraft:** But you say that like it's a bad thing. I guess living there, it might be sometimes. I live in a touristy region of Germany, so I can relate. But it's good for everyone traveling there.
**Delia Carballo:** Yes, you can fly directly to Málaga from a lot of cities.
---
### [Local Lead Proud To Showcase Málaga](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2884fec6-e34e-4be9-872f-acd1a4ca5c93)
🎧 12:15 - 12:59 (00:44)
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- Delia is proud to host WordCamp Europe in Málaga and views it as a way to showcase the city, even though she isn't originally from there.
- She called Málaga her home since age 14 and encouraged everyone to get to know the city.
#### 💬 Quote
> I'm not from Malaga, but it's my city now.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on her connection to Málaga and pride in hosting WCEU
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** everybody asks me, are you frightened or are you worried about or you will see next year? And now, as I told before, I'm really excited to have work in Europe there because I think everybody should know Spain and Malaga. So I'm very proud of, and it's not my, I'm not from Malaga, but it's my city now. It's your home. It's my home. So I think everybody should know Málaga. Okay. It's a really nice excuse to go, okay, okay. It's
**Simon Kraft:** not an excuse. It's an important business expense.
---
Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts
# Snips updated after 2026-04-05T10:16:17
### [WordCamp Europe 2027 Confirmed For Málaga](https://share.snipd.com/snip/0e701c05-ca11-4aac-89d0-51975ecad886)
🎧 00:37 - 01:46 (01:08)
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- WordCamp Europe 2027 will be held in Málaga, Spain from May 27 to 29, 2027.
- Delia Carballo celebrates that this is the first time WCEU revisits a country and sees it as an opportunity rather than a disadvantage.
#### 💬 Quote
> You are coming to visit us to Málaga.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo announcing Málaga as the 2027 host city
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** Where you are coming? For
**Simon Kraft:** WordCamp Europe. I mean, I know where I'm going always. You
**Delia Carballo:** are coming to visit us to Málaga. I
**Simon Kraft:** have sound effects here.
**Delia Carballo:** Okay, you put it after. Don't
**Simon Kraft:** do sound effects in the podcast, no. That is really exciting. I think it's the first time WordCamp Europe is revisiting, not the same city, but revisiting a country, Spain.
**Delia Carballo:** Yes, it is the first time.
**Simon Kraft:** Does that make a difference?
**Delia Carballo:** I don't know if it's going to be different, that it's the second time that the WorldCamp Europe is in Spain. But it's a special WorldCamp because we opened the door to revisit other countries. So
**Simon Kraft:** it didn't make a difference for like the application or anything that it was Spain before? Were you worried that that might reduce your chances of getting to do it?
**Delia Carballo:** We knew it was going to be hard that they choose Spain a second time. But we said, OK, we have nothing to lose. here we go. lucky us. Congratulations.
---
### [Book Travel Early For The Slightly Earlier Dates](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4189b09e-c7ad-4fa2-974b-f4aba60c2d7f)
🎧 02:30 - 03:18 (00:47)
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- Dates are slightly earlier than usual: May 27–29, 2027, so plan travel and local arrangements accordingly.
- Delia explained the venue booking forced choosing the week earlier because the first week of June was already booked.
#### 💬 Quote
> From 27th to 29th.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on the exact dates for WordCamp Europe 2027
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** Yes. We're slightly earlier, right?
**Delia Carballo:** Yes, from 27th to 29th.
**Simon Kraft:** So end of May.
**Delia Carballo:** Yes. It's
**Simon Kraft:** a week early. And I think if I know my behind the scenes stuff about WordCamp Europe, I usually do you have two weeks that you can pick from right for for the application I think there's some leeway in there that you don't have to be the first week of June but you can be a bit early or a bit late I'm there's in the past I think there
**Delia Carballo:** is something about the holidays you want to steer clear
**Simon Kraft:** of like all the major... We
**Delia Carballo:** talked to the venue people and the first week of June was already booked.
---
### [Expect Hot Terral Winds In Málaga](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e82510c2-a056-4607-9d72-f0ad91514c0f)
🎧 03:23 - 04:20 (00:57)
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- Málaga experiences a local hot wind called Terral that can make temperatures feel oven-like.
- Delia highlighted Terral as a unique local climate factor attendees might notice during late May events.
#### 💬 Quote
> We have a special wind in Málaga that we call Terral.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo describing Málaga's distinctive hot wind
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** Let's just look at today's weather.
**Delia Carballo:** Today is 30 degrees. Oh, that's plenty. Yeah, it is. It's the first heat wave.
**Simon Kraft:** You only now have the first heat wave. We've been through two already in Germany.
**Delia Carballo:** Well, it's the first that this kind of. We have a special wind in Málaga that we call Terral. Oh,
**Simon Kraft:** that's pretty.
**Delia Carballo:** Well, and it comes from the center of the country. And it's so hot that when you open the window, you feel like you open the oven.
**Simon Kraft:** You're not doing a great job at selling this WordCamp.
**Delia Carballo:** No, I explain this because this week we had Terral. So it's because it was, that is why it has been so hot yesterday or something. But it was because of the wind.
**Simon Kraft:** Okay.
**Delia Carballo:** Hot wind. That is special from Málaga.
---
### [La Manquita Cathedral Celebrated For Its Imperfection](https://share.snipd.com/snip/16e156a0-2527-4ef9-96e0-3d5fe87cec27)
🎧 04:50 - 05:54 (01:04)
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- Málaga's cultural mix emphasizes the sea and Arabic heritage with landmarks like the Alcazaba and the Cathedral called La Manquita.
- Delia explained the cathedral's unfinished tower is deliberately left incomplete, making it a beloved local quirk.
#### 💬 Quote
> They decided not to finish it.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on why Málaga's cathedral is known as La Manquita
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** Definitely. Okay. Not in that, but I think the sea is very important in Málaga, as well as Arabic culture. So we have all the monuments. most important monuments in Malaga are, we have the Alcazaba and the Cathedral that is known as La Manquita. Manco is when somebody doesn't have one and it's because there is one tower that is not finished.
**Simon Kraft:** Oh, so there's an amputated tower.
**Delia Carballo:** Yeah, but it sounds horrible. They
**Simon Kraft:** just didn't finish building it.
**Delia Carballo:** Yeah, but they wanted to finish, but now nobody wants to finish it because it's La Manquita. You know, it's a nice name to... If you finish, that is a normal cathedral. They decided not to finish it.
**Simon Kraft:** I think that's a really charming kind of philosophy to be like, it doesn't have to be perfect to
**Delia Carballo:** be special. It's our cathedral. We love it as it is. So they decided not to finish.
---
### [Leave Time To Walk Málaga's Compact Center](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2ccb3f1-e099-49b2-871e-971565d43cbb)
🎧 06:11 - 07:07 (00:55)
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- Plan extra time to walk Málaga's compact center where major sights are close together and very walkable.
- Delia recommends the port lighthouse La Farola and the hill Gibralfaro for panoramic city views.
#### 💬 Quote
> In some minutes you can see everything.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on Málaga's walkable central attractions
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** If we go there for working in Europe, which of course is the main attraction, should I plan for some time around that just to stay in Malaga or in the area to look at some things? In
**Delia Carballo:** the center of the city, the important monuments are in the small area. So you can see a lot of things. We have a lot of museums as well. You should go to the port to see the lighthouse. You have the lighthouse that is called La Farola. And it's very typical as well in Malaga. And everything is very near each other. It's pretty walkable. Yes, walkable. In some minutes you can see everything. You should go up the... There is a hill, it's called Gibral Faro. From there you can see the whole city and it's a very beautiful view.
---
### [Try Espeto De Sardina Cooked On The Beach](https://share.snipd.com/snip/66c029d7-0ba6-4229-b396-a3e089145e60)
🎧 07:34 - 08:27 (00:53)
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- Try local dishes like espeto de sardina, skewered sardines grilled over a beach sand fire inside a boat-shaped trough.
- Delia described the traditional cooking method using sand, a fire, and wooden sticks on the beach.
#### 💬 Quote
> You put in a stick a wooden stick and you cook on a fire in a boat.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo describing espeto de sardina preparation
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** You can have really nice food. What
**Simon Kraft:** kind of food are we looking at? Is it like seafood? Yes,
**Delia Carballo:** if you like fish, you have plenty of kinds of fish to try and you should try something that is called espeto de sardina oh
**Simon Kraft:** oh okay
**Delia Carballo:** it's fish that you put in a stick a wooden stick and you cook on a fire in a boat i mean it's really special you have a boat you fill it with sand, you make the fire and you put the sticks in this.
**Simon Kraft:** Is the boat on the water? No,
**Delia Carballo:** it's in the sand.
**Simon Kraft:** Okay. You
**Delia Carballo:** have the sand and you have, yeah. Setting
**Simon Kraft:** the boat on fire while you're on the ocean sounds like a bad idea. Okay. Makes way more sense
**Delia Carballo:** like that. Maybe I don't, but it's really strange. There is no another way to explain. That is very typical.
---
### [Venue Is A Modern Wave Shaped Congress Center](https://share.snipd.com/snip/81d7c7a5-a29c-49c4-b606-6a4b9e6d0395)
🎧 09:00 - 10:02 (01:02)
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- The conference will be at Palacio de Ferias y Congresos de Málaga, a modern, wave-shaped congress center.
- Delia likened the venue's architecture to sea waves, reinforcing Málaga's maritime theme.
#### 💬 Quote
> I think the architecture is like the sea, because it's like waves.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo describing the Málaga congress center architecture
#### 📚 Transcript
**Simon Kraft:** Yes.
**Delia Carballo:** Where
**Simon Kraft:** are we going to spend all the amazing time we will not spend on the beach or by the lighthouse or on the hill? Well,
**Delia Carballo:** I say in Spanish, Palacio de Ferias y Congresos de Málaga. Okay. So
**Simon Kraft:** the Málaga Congress Center. Congress Center.
**Delia Carballo:** Yeah. I'm
**Simon Kraft:** trying to look at pictures, but their website isn't really good. Oh, oh.
**Delia Carballo:** Well, did you? Oh, yeah, yes. That is very nice photo. It's, I think. Let's try
**Simon Kraft:** to explain what that looks like. Well,
**Delia Carballo:** I think the architecture is like the sea, because it's like waves. So that is not the, you can see it better for another side, but the roof, it's like this, like waves. It a wavy shape. So, yes, we have the sea, you know, the sea is, everything is in spirit, I think.
**Simon Kraft:** And it's quite the modern, quite a modern place.
---
### [Málaga Is Well Connected And Used To Big Events](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3b5e3dcf-ee9d-4977-be75-ecebf2518dca)
🎧 10:18 - 10:51 (00:33)
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- Málaga is battle-tested for large events like Comic Con and is highly touristic with many direct flights, aiding accessibility.
- Delia emphasized good flight connections and abundant hotels make attendance easier for international visitors.
#### 💬 Quote
> We celebrate the Comic Con. The Malaga Comic Con. So it's a battle-tested venue.
> — Simon Kraft
Simon Kraft noting the venue's experience hosting large events
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** Okay,
**Simon Kraft:** so we talked about food, we talked about the venue, we talked about sightseeing. I guess Malaga because it is a bit of a touristy region, right? So there's hotels there. Yes,
**Delia Carballo:** it's a very touristic region.
**Simon Kraft:** But you say that like it's a bad thing. I guess living there, it might be sometimes. I live in a touristy region of Germany, so I can relate. But it's good for everyone traveling there.
**Delia Carballo:** Yes, you can fly directly to Málaga from a lot of cities.
---
### [Local Lead Proud To Showcase Málaga](https://share.snipd.com/snip/2884fec6-e34e-4be9-872f-acd1a4ca5c93)
🎧 12:15 - 12:59 (00:44)
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- Delia is proud to host WordCamp Europe in Málaga and views it as a way to showcase the city, even though she isn't originally from there.
- She called Málaga her home since age 14 and encouraged everyone to get to know the city.
#### 💬 Quote
> I'm not from Malaga, but it's my city now.
> — Delia Carballo
Delia Carballo on her connection to Málaga and pride in hosting WCEU
#### 📚 Transcript
**Delia Carballo:** everybody asks me, are you frightened or are you worried about or you will see next year? And now, as I told before, I'm really excited to have work in Europe there because I think everybody should know Spain and Malaga. So I'm very proud of, and it's not my, I'm not from Malaga, but it's my city now. It's your home. It's my home. So I think everybody should know Málaga. Okay. It's a really nice excuse to go, okay, okay. It's
**Simon Kraft:** not an excuse. It's an important business expense.
---