# 143: Rice On Your Nachos  ## Episode metadata - Episode title: 143: Rice On Your Nachos - Show: Mostly Technical - Owner / Host: Ian Landsman and Aaron Francis - Episode publish date: 2026-08-05 - Episode AI description: They trade Laracon stories, backstage nerves, and the challenges of crafting a conference opener. They debate AI tooling for onboarding and orchestration without diving into technical deep dives. A late-night nacho run sparks a lively argument about putting rice on nachos. Travel perks, sewing projects, and t-shirt sourcing frustrations round out the chat. - Duration: 01:06:33 - Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/40875b97-3252-425d-9cb2-d41235d15fe4) - Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/7ad45fb4-8aa6-49c2-83cc-bc2327d14b03) - Export date: 2026-08-12T16:56:40 ## Snips ### [Use AI Agents To Learn A New Company Fast](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8f1bb520-7da8-44a5-a58f-80895f001681) 🎧 01:09 - 02:50 (01:40) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/65c74660-faa6-4df4-b59a-c93870534d46" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Use built-in AI agents in tools like Notion and Linear to get a 30,000-foot overview when joining a new company. - Aaron used agents to find where docs live and quickly orient across Notion, Linear, and Slack instead of digging for months. #### 💬 Quote > They both have built-in AI agents. [...] give me an overview. I don't know where to click. I don't know where to go. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on using Notion and Linear AI agents to onboard #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** Um, but you know, in a, in a remote company, the size there, there are a lot of tools. And so I'm like, I'm getting into notion. I'm getting into linear, I'm getting into Slack and just, just trying to figure out what's, uh, what's up to date, what needs to be brought up to date, all, all of that kind of stuff. ran my first, uh, weekly marketing meeting, which was fun. Yeah, very fun. So yeah, it was great. I looked up and it was 635. And I texted Jennifer and I was like, Oh, shoot, because I'm supposed to leave here by like 625 at the very latest. And so I texted her and I was like, I'm running out the door. But it was just like, all day long doing stuff, man. **Ian Landsman:** it's good have you have you thrown the uh the bots at uh all these documents yet to get you up to speed have you been cheating yes good yes so seems it's advantageous you know yeah **Aaron Francis:** linear notion and i've i've used neither of these tools neither linear nor notion okay notion I have like a emotional aversion to. Like I just don't want to use it. And so historically, I have avoided it. But now I'm getting in there to like clean stuff up and put my fingerprints on it. But they both have built-in AI agents. I actually just before we got on this call downloaded the notion desktop app. And I'm going to see if I can hook up my local CLI agent to it through MCP or something. But those are very helpful for like, what the hell's going on here? Like, give me an overview. --- ### [Solo Emcee Moment At LaraProm](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3a43fd5c-05e6-4906-948b-1ed9e8bf9434) 🎧 04:40 - 07:18 (02:38) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/b99c8840-85f9-413c-aae1-a3a7b6d0eff4" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - After LaraProm Aaron found himself briefly left alone on the emcee duty when Aaron had to leave early. - He prepped an opening monologue late and snuck out with a foot out the door while Jennifer headed back to the hotel. #### 💬 Quote > I was on my own. But that's fine. I understood. He's got a big day the next day. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis recounting being left to emcee LaraProm #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** We left off Lara prom. talked about it in the end of the last episode. We kind of, that was awesome. Thanks everybody for coming out. Really cool event. But well, let's, let's just wrap up theair Prom with the evening's coming to a close. People are like, hey, you should say a little something. That's great. **Aaron Francis:** bad. **Ian Landsman:** Let's get Aaron over here. We'll say something to the hundreds of people who are still here. They're like, no, no, no. Aaron's gone. Aaron's been gone. No, **Aaron Francis:** no, no, no. I on my own. But that's fine. I understood. I understood. He's got a big day the next day. I understood. Do not besmirch my honor this is what they told me it's **Ian Landsman:** what i was told they **Aaron Francis:** told you that because it's true but let's let's get some details what time what time was this big speech **Ian Landsman:** oh it was you know at 9 50 or whatever no way i was out at 10 **Aaron Francis:** i was out at 10 we just missed ships in the night we just missed each other yeah **Ian Landsman:** it could be it could be all right **Aaron Francis:** so i sent i sent jennifer home a little bit early because she was kind of like uh talked out you know she she actually had a blast um but it's exhausting meeting all the new people. Yeah. And I was like, all right, you know, I still got a job to do. Why don't you just head back to the hotel? And so then I, you know, I walk around, I shake some hands, I kiss some babies. Sure. And then at some point I'm like, man, I got a big, I got a big task to do in the morning. The emceeing part, I love, especially at Lyricon, because all these people are my friends. And so I can just get up there and I always write notes for the speakers. But for this group, I could just get up there and totally wing it and it would come off great. Because I've known these people for 10 years. But the thing I was stressed about was, uh, my, my opening monologue. And so around, around 10 PM, I was like, I went over to Abby and I was like, Hey, you have tons of people that are going to help you. Right. And she's like, yeah. And I double checked cause it was like, this is a whole prom and I don't want you cleaning it up by yourself. She was like, no, I've got, you know, she had, she'd like built a whole app to assign staff their roles, which is super impressive. And so she, she double confirmed that she was good. And then that's when I sneaked out. So it must've been as they were handing you the microphone, I had a foot out the door. Yeah. Your heel. You were like, yeah, I was like, oh, is that my name? I'm out of here. --- ### [First Day Announcement Nerves On Stage](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a0f6c66e-4213-44a7-b444-d545358118b0) 🎧 08:34 - 11:43 (03:09) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/0bde2044-461b-4a9d-ae77-4d57dd5cd714" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Ian announced Aaron as Laravel's new VP of Marketing live at Laracon, and Aaron felt genuine nerves because he was speaking on behalf of the company. - Backstage he practiced the arc and then walked out to surprised faces like Pavlos with mouth open. #### 💬 Quote > I was feeling very nervous [...] I am speaking on behalf of the company on day one to like the core audience. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on nervousness announcing his Laravel role at Laracon #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** People are very excited. People are very surprised. And you had like a 10-minute speech. So cover the highlights for us. And what you were feeling as you walked out there and Taylor announced you. That's what I – forget the speech. I wanted to know what you were feeling when Taylor was up there about to announce you. And then that's **Aaron Francis:** nervous. I was feeling very nervous um so taylor and i workshopped it a little bit and we decided to go with like a bait and switch of hey you know normally we have a community member do this like we're gonna switch it up this year we're gonna have our new vice president of marketing be the mc today's his first day and so that the bait and switch was great yeah because people are like oh dude aaron's on the schedule but like taylor's coming out and he's saying that community members not going to do it love you know love a roller coaster that part that part was flawless um so i was feeling very very. I don't get nervous about going on stage. But this was like my first, this was my first, you know, announcement of, you know, company direction, basically. I serve at the pleasure of, you know, Laravel Holdings Incorporated. I'm a man under authority and I go where I'm sent. Right. And so historically it was very easy. I could just either speak from my point of view or just like reiterate things that have been coming from the mothership. And nobody, nobody views me as, at least I try not to uh views me as speaking on behalf of the company right and so historically opening monologues have been easy because it's like here's what's on my mind here's what i'm seeing in the community we're all here to you know have fun this time it was like i am i am speaking on behalf of the company on day one to like the core audience. Like this is, this is the group of people that make up the core of the Laravel community, or at least part of that core. And so, um, you know, surprising no one, I took this duty. I think it is like, it is a noble duty. I took it very seriously. And so backstage, I well, the night before, so when I went home from the prom, I had like the, the narrative arc of what I was going to say in my head, but I did not have, I was not like totally confident on the actual wording. Um, so I stayed up a little late. I got up a little early. I practiced it a bunch of times in my head. And so I was pretty confident about what I was going to say before I went out there. But just being backstage and like hearing vice president, employee, all this stuff, I'm like, holy crap, like, this is this is the big show. This is real. And then I walked out and people were very surprised. The one face I remember specifically was Pavlos. He was just like, literally mouth open. Like, what? What is going on? --- ### [Narrative Arc For Announcing A Leadership Move](https://share.snipd.com/snip/abf17918-dec7-4b1b-bb48-7fff21077d57) 🎧 13:08 - 15:26 (02:17) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/db7261c2-02b6-4830-940c-d5ac99a48333" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron structured his Laracon opening with a tight narrative: announce he's joining, explain why now, then pivot to community purpose. - He framed PHP/Laravel as artisans expanding into builders and challenged the community to stay welcoming. #### 💬 Quote > Yes, I'm starting at Laravel. You may be wondering why right now. Well, here's why right now... land the artisans, expand to builders, and then issue a challenge. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on the structure of his Laracon announcement speech #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** to start like when i'm writing a talk or preparing even even like a like a wedding toast right I always try to have some sort of like narrative or thematic arc and then I can fill in like that that's the bones and then I can fill in the flesh kind of around that and so the arc here was um I'm joining Laravel why why am I joining Laravel right now? Yeah. And then I can take that why right now and quickly pivot away from me and start talking about the community and the industry. So I didn't want the whole talk to be about me because that's exciting for me and Jennifer and boring for everyone else. So it was a quick, like, let's land. Yes, I'm starting at Laravel. You may be wondering why right now. Well, here's why right now. Here's what I see happening in this community and in the industry. So that was the arc. The mini arc inside of like, here's what I'm seeing in the industry was um basically the world is being like flooded with new builders which i think you and i would both agree and have seen that technically minded non-technical people are starting to code or quote unquote code it doesn't really matter they're starting to build things yeah and the mini arc inside of the why now is, um, you know, speaking to the people in the room, you're all artisans expanding their identity to we're all builders. I think that is something that is core to the PHP ethos and the Laravel ethos, but going all the way back to PHP, all kind of like builders, dreamers, hackers. So land the artisans, expand to builders, and then issue a challenge and like a purpose for the community. And the purpose and the challenge is, hey guys, we have this opportunity to become the de facto place where people of all artisan expertises, the de facto place where those people build and basically like encourage them continue to be welcoming as you've always been welcoming. --- ### [One Track Creates A Stronger Conference Experience](https://share.snipd.com/snip/34de577b-a7c5-4542-947d-c00c0283d02c) 🎧 20:20 - 20:55 (00:35) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/94b1b6c0-b4e7-41a2-bb1d-85f35b6e16d5" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron prefers one-track conferences because a single program creates a shared experience and better post-talk conversations. - He says one track avoids constant run-to-next-talk friction and unifies attendee discussion. #### 💬 Quote > I'm a huge fan of the one track that just creates a shared experience for everyone. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on conference format preference #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** stuff um i think big picture it was i think it was 99 perfect i really do there we go um i think'm, I'm a huge fan of the one track that just creates a shared experience for everyone. It reduces this interstitial, like, Oh, I got to run to my next talk. I got to figure out my next talk. Uh, well, well, whatever, I'll just not go to any talks. Um, and it creates one cohesive experience for all attendees. --- ### [Ship Or Die Game Show At Laracon](https://share.snipd.com/snip/271b1e0e-e417-4529-85af-a0cc3693d5d5) 🎧 25:58 - 29:00 (03:01) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/9081eb3e-721d-484b-a6ee-18732b980da7" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Laracon ended with a playful 'Ship Or Die' segment where presenters had three minutes, then panelists grilled viability and winners got cloud credits and keyboards. - Ian called on Aaron from the audience to loudly cheer 'Ship it' as a joke about Aaron's shipping reputation. #### 💬 Quote > Instead we did a little fake game show called ship or die [...] they got three minutes on stage of screen time and after the three minutes [...] the house cut off their slides. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing the Ship Or Die segment at Laracon #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** So you, you mentioned this in yesterday's episode, but at the end of Laracon, we had this inspired idea and I can say this because it wasn't my idea. I believe it was a Gen Z Abby's idea instead of just the, uh, what could be a boring panel of like, Oh, what's open source gonna, uh, what's going to happen in the age of AI? Like, yeah, okay. I'm so tired of that. Um, instead we did a little, little fake game show called ship die, which was a lot of fun. so we had seven members of the community uh we had a bunch of people submit and uh we all picked seven and they got three minutes on stage of screen time and after the three minutes uh went went down the house cut off their slides which was awesome it was perfect It added a little bit of suspense. So they could present their project. And then they went over to a group of panelists that included Torsten, Adam Wathen, Taylor, and Hannah Jehoviak, who's a salesperson on our team. And the panelists got to ask them a bunch of questions about like is this intended to make money how like how are you going to get customers and then you know they got a bunch of cloud credits and a keyboard so it was it was it was silly it was fun the projects varied widely which was great so there's one project that's a poker project right oh during during the guy's poker presentation i'm looking in the audience and i find you and i say i tap on my chest and i say i'm gonna call on you and i want you to stand up and shout and you're like got it got it got it i needed to tell you literally nothing you would have been ready if i didn't even warn you I was ready yes um so the guy finishes his presentation and I do a little bit of acting and I you know I say is there is there a wild Ian Landsman out in the audience and you stood up and so give us give us your perspective what happened there yeah **Ian Landsman:** so it a I had like a sort of interesting idea but yeah I was like oh yeah this is all me I was just like I just yell out I'm like ship it. Just ship it. That's it. I said he needed a mobile app. I was like, you need a mobile app. So I gave a little bit of feedback. And I was like, ship it. And it was kind of funny because the people on stage were clearly not on the ship it camp entirely. So that's why I was just like, I'm leaning all the way in. Just ship it. It's poker. We're shipping it. And everybody got it. The audience laughed a lot and that was really cool that everybody got the joke got the poker got why i'd be into the poker got why you're calling on me to do the poker **Aaron Francis:** app and i think the moment we both knew wow there are a lot mostly technical listeners here after you like told them you know three four times to ship it i said ah don't listen to Ian. He never ships anything. And everyone got it. Everyone got it. It was great. --- ### [Rice On Nachos Caused RiceGate](https://share.snipd.com/snip/724a660e-310d-4b8e-8c0a-8b354f85a331) 🎧 38:31 - 45:54 (07:22) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/7a13e128-9439-4b03-abfb-c0e8cb78fdb8" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - At 2 a.m. Aaron, Ian, Jon O'Nolan, and James Brooks went on a nacho hunt and Aaron put rice on his nachos, which sparked outrage and amusement. - Ian says staff and onlookers reacted with horror while Aaron defended the messy pile as delicious. #### 💬 Quote > I saw rice and thought rice sounds good. The rice does not destroy the pile. It was a messy pile... the rice so good. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on putting rice on late-night nachos #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** Just **Aaron Francis:** going to have to bite my tongue here because this is not as big of a deal as you want **Ian Landsman:** the people to believe it is. Okay. After we go out to a nice dinner, Label team is doing their thing. Trying to coordinate with people. Bossman Chris from Philly. Brandon Kelly from Craft CMS. He's like an old-time PHP guy I know. Anyway, we meet up at a bar. We're having drinks. Everything's going great. Laravel people start showing up at our bar. Awesome. Laravel people are there, whatever. You're there. You show up eventually. We're hanging out. We're having a great time. 2 o'clock or whatever. We're like, all right, we're done with the bar. We're going home. We walk home. We go in a hotel. There's James Brooks. He's got a big pile of nachos. The best looking nachos **Aaron Francis:** you've ever seen in your life. Great of nachos. As far as piles of nachos go, this was number one. It was great. So we were like, where'd you them nachos? He **Ian Landsman:** points us in the right direction. He comes along with us. He's like, I'll show you where the nachos are. He's a nacho guy. What Yeah. So he brings us to the nachos, okay? We go. So it's **Aaron Francis:** you, me, Jono Nolan, and James Brooks. Yes. **Ian Landsman:** Right? Great crew. Love the crew. 2 a.m. I love a walk at 2 a.m. I love a 2 a.m. **Aaron Francis:** nacho hunt. That's, God. That's peak. Really tier. That is peak. **Ian Landsman:** Top tier stuff. So we get to the nacho place. It looks great. It's got the right vibe. I'm enjoying the vibe. It's like a little dirty, but not grossly dirty. It's got like **Aaron Francis:** good energy in there. Kind of like a Chipotle setup. It's a build your own counter service walkthrough thing. But it's not Chipotle, but **Ian Landsman:** it's like that. So you go first. And **Aaron Francis:** it's 2 a.m 2 a.m and and we we have we've been enjoying ourselves you have okay and i have okay that's true you're **Ian Landsman:** like i'm gonna have some nachos because that's what we're there for there was no we didn't the menu is irrelevant we're not getting tacos we're not getting anything else we're getting nachos okay you you say you order nachos she gets the tray nachos they're warming she's got the nice warm nachos on there i think she puts some cheese on first that's all fine and then she's like what do you want and you like you have her put rice **Aaron Francis:** there was rice there nachos there was rice there ketchup there there's **Ian Landsman:** all kinds of things there's no ketchup there there was rice there first of all on the nachos okay right this is **Aaron Francis:** not this is not a deeply held religious belief i saw rice yeah and i thought rice sounds good that was it i'm not i'm I'm not making I'm not making a statement about whether rice belongs on. You are making a statement. I nearly by your actions. No, my eyes were my stomach. saw rice and thought the the the entirety of the complex thought that went through my head was rice sounds good. And so I put the rice on the nachos okay and apparently apparently uh you're have you and john are having side chats with the employees trying to get them to admit that i'm insane you're going to find you get the rice this **Ian Landsman:** is unbelievable this is unbelievable you are a leader in the community, okay? You can't just be going out there doing crazy shit like this. Because you know what happens? The guy right behind you, poor John O'Nolan, who is between me and you, he gets rice on his nachos. And it was great. That's what it's supposed to be. It was great. So he gets rice on his nachos. And then I'm like, dude, what the hell is going on? So I'm freaking out back there, right? I'm like, this is insanity, rice on nachos so there's like four very nice employees back there they're all like you know these little uh ladies and they're all like it's 2 a.m it's 2 a.m i hate right they got you there i'm like i'm trying to talk to them be like this rice on nachos and they don't want to be on the hook because you're still there right i understand like i kind of put them in a spot so i was like okay you walked away and i was like the rice on the nachos right and the look on these women's faces was like pure horror they could not believe why is it you put the nachos why is it there if not to be used if you get a bowl of rice with some stuff on it that's a rice bowl you could have that that's totally fine that's not rice on nachos **Aaron Francis:** this is this is parsing too thin this is reading the text too closely okay this is insanity **Ian Landsman:** it **Aaron Francis:** was a it was a it was a messy it was a pile we've already talked about it was so good that's the rice so good. The rice does not destroy the pile. **Ian Landsman:** It's the stuff that's on the – no rice. You grab all **Aaron Francis:** these nachos. It's adding. So first of all, we did an episode a long time ago where I said that nachos, by their definition, is chips and cheese. Yeah, which everybody still talks lost your mind. You lost your mind. It's And now I'm out here – so I'm out here being adventurous, being like you're like nachos what if we try what if we try something new like what if i i hate trying new things what if we try something new i try something new and now we're hearing about it now the world many many hundreds of thousands of listeners this episode are hearing that aaron's an idiot i saw rice and i was like rice sounds good my tummy's kind of hungry what if i got some rice **Ian Landsman:** you're out there like chips cheese and rice is nachos that's put you that this is not a statement this is not a we gotta send aaron away sorry kids daddy had to go away for a while he's got to get his shit worked out because he thinks chips, cheese, and rice is nachos. And that's crazy. You're a whim **Aaron Francis:** into a canonical statement. This is not a canonical statement. And for the record, it was chips, cheese. There was rice, I think. There was like queso. There was meat. There was black beans. You **Ian Landsman:** Thank God. I the whole thing. **Aaron Francis:** Anything that was green, I didn't put on there, obviously. But like it was a full messy 2 a.m. nacho pile. I'm not. This is. You're turning this into a **Ian Landsman:** witch hunt. We're like, he's insane. Okay. You think I'm making this up? They were all like, this guy's nuts. Just get him the hell out of here. **Aaron Francis:** This is unbelievable. This is why we had to save this for a second day because this is crazy. One of the crazier things I've ever seen **Ian Landsman:** in person in my whole life. This is like, it's real high up there. It's real high up there like oh **Aaron Francis:** i'm sorry for being so adventurous with my culinary tastes it is **Ian Landsman:** adventurous have you ever had rice are bland you put more bland rice on top that's crazy no no comment down below people comment to us onOut. We want to know if Aaron's crazy for putting rice on chips. We know he is, but just confirm it. **Aaron Francis:** Rice gate is completely **Ian Landsman:** blown out of proportion. This is insane. Dude, it's under proportion. I should have led with this on the last show. I should have led with it again on this show. It should have been the full lead both days because it's freaking crazy. --- ### [First Class Lounge Turned Aaron Into A Believer](https://share.snipd.com/snip/31f0885d-add0-4d7e-b9c3-899b79efb4bb) 🎧 47:54 - 50:30 (02:36) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/d4174a93-3bf7-4a5d-83d7-d85aff4010df" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron experimented with buying first class on the Boston–Dallas return and loved the lounge, unlimited sodas, quiet space, hot towel, and priority boarding. - He used points to access the lounge and recommends treating first-class as a productivity and comfort boost. #### 💬 Quote > First class is better. It's just better. We went to the American Airlines first class lounge. I felt like a kid trying to get into my dad's office. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing his first class lounge experience #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** First class is better. It's just better. It's just better. It's unbelievable. We went to the American Airlines first class lounge. And I felt like a kid trying to get into my dad's office. I walk up and I'm like, excuse me, ma'am, I'm first class. And she's like, great. How do you want to pay to get into the lounge? And I'm like, oh, definitely, definitely. What does that mean? I thought I was special. And she was like, well, yes. She was like, well, in this terminal or airport or whatever, we don't have automatic first class or automatic lounge for domestic flights. And I was like, oh, obviously I'm so used to that. I just totally forgot. Trying not to look out of place. You Sam and I are at different counters and we're both discovering this information at the same time. And so I was like, yeah, whatever it costs, it's fine. Yeah, it's okay. We're big dogs. And so I paid it in points. I was like, do i have any points and she was like you have points like great let's use those there you go so i i paid for sam and i to get in the first class lounge um because we had to check out at 11 and we didn't board until two and we had nowhere to go you don't want to sit out there we don't want to sit with the unwashed masses of course can you imagine somebody bumping your elbow while you're trying to have your own elbow space trying to find **Ian Landsman:** the spot that's like away from everybody but not too far from the gate and you gotta like figure it all out yeah you know none of **Aaron Francis:** the plugs work yeah people are taking their and socks off for some reason get out of here with that so we go in the first class lounge we both immediately put our headphones on and ignore each other which is just ideal yeah and there's just soda it's unlimited sodas i mean there's of course a full you know bar and buffet and you know whatever but there are unlimited sodas so i'm just like a kid in the candy store i'm just killing this soda machine every time i get up on I, you know, point at Sam, I'm like, do you want something? And she's like, no, I don't. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to go get another soda. Um, and it was awesome. It was super quiet. It was clean chargers everywhere. And then I don't know if I mentioned, but there were sodas. It was unbelievable. And I had like a proper lunch. I went to the buffet, got a real lunch. So I'm not eating like a bag of chips or something. And I think I would like to get very rich because that was awesome. **Ian Landsman:** I would love to do that more. It's very good. I do think it's sort of interesting, at least in New York. --- ### [Learning To Sew To Customize Shirts](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3733c8d3-a5b5-4d92-8bde-1aa43027dff0) 🎧 54:55 - 59:24 (04:28) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/ec61d3b5-231c-4e2f-b063-708f60fed02e" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron bought a Brother sewing machine to add custom pockets and embroidery to heavyweight black shirts from House of Blanks. - He plans to learn basic sewing (or hire a teacher) and use embroidery to create subtle black-on-black branding. #### 💬 Quote > I got a brother sewing machine. I'm going to learn how to sew pockets onto my new shirts. I can embroider things and make my own black on black. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on buying a sewing machine to modify shirts #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** I **Aaron Francis:** got a sewing machine. Ooh. I am going to learn. I'm going to have to hire a kindly old woman off of the internet to teach me how to sew. YouTube. I could YouTube. I think I just want a grandma to come for an hour once a week for like three, four, five to teach me how to use this brother sewing machine. So I got a brother sewing machine. Okay. Yeah. So you may recall, I found a new shirt supplier. Have we talked about, I know we've talked about this privately. I don't know if we've talked **Ian Landsman:** about this publicly. We definitely talked about it publicly. not even sure i'm aware of it privately but continue well **Aaron Francis:** we talked about it private privately because you and taylor were talking about needing tall shirts oh yes yes so i found a new shirt supplier um it is house of blanks so i got these great new shirts from house of blanks um they're like i think they're they're heavyweight t-shirts. And I like a shirt with a little bit of body, right? I don't want the American apparel, jersey knit, whatever stuff anymore. sticking to you. Oh, God. Leave a little form to the imagination, for goodness sakes. So I found these great shirts. And to give you a sense of how thick they are, I can wear the white shirt and leave everything to the imagination. The white shirt is not see-through. That's great. We love a non-see shirt. I do like that. So they're these thick shirts, crew neck. They fit well. They're not boxy. I, as I do, had this great idea. What if I learn how to sew pockets onto my new shirts? This is insane. Just one per shirt. It's not going to be like a pocket shirt. Right. Okay. So if I learned how to sew pockets, then I could make my own shirts basically. So I could extend the black shirt brand, right? I'm going to keep doing the black shirts, but then I can buy and I have a bunch of different fabrics, right? And so I can have a, I can have a fully black shirt with an accent pocket. And I'm going to make, I'm going to make the pockets out of these fabrics that I've sourced from the world wide web um and so i have you know jennifer's like what what are all of these packages and i'm like don't worry babe it's fabrics i've got a sewing machine coming and she's like i don't understand anything that you do i'm like that makes sense um so i've got all these fabrics now. I've got a shirt supplier. **Ian Landsman:** I love – see, you and me, this is where we're the same. Hold on. Because you've got to pre-buy everything. It's like you've got to be fully Oh, yeah, I haven't started. No, I haven't started a thing. No, of course not. This makes Jamie crazy because I do this with like photo stuff. I'm like, I can't just buy a camera and a lens. I've have all the lenses. I've got everything I possibly need in case I go out there and I actually have time to photograph things. Oh, **Aaron Francis:** for sure. you're all prepared. So I bought everything, which is half the fun, if I'm being **Ian Landsman:** honest. 90% of the fun. **Aaron Francis:** Yeah, really. And so now I gotta learn how to sew pockets. And this brother sewing machine also does like programmatic embroidery. And so I can just I can embroider things. Like this shirt here from Pete Heslop, this sweatshirt is the Steadfast Collective member of the community. And it's black embroidery on a black sweatshirt. And it's just unbelievably metal, right? And so now I can make my own unbelievably metal black on black. Yeah. So it's a brand extension we're not changing we're not changing the black t-shirt we're just adding uh custom pockets so that i can have this whole lineup of custom ish shirts with a solid base i can't make a shirt but give me give me a second i'll learn how to sew shirts fully but i'm going to start with learning how to sew pockets it's a great idea seems **Ian Landsman:** reasonable you're going to like sacrifice one shirt to like you know train on and put a bunch of pockets on it and i mean it sounds like this thing's so advanced it might just be able to it might just be all tells you yeah i can pretty much do it yeah **Aaron Francis:** i'm gonna hook it up to codex and it'll figure it all **Ian Landsman:** out this is where you don't need the old grandma to help you because she's not gonna know about the like auto programming nature of this thing like you're just i i don't know **Aaron Francis:** i don't know these these sewing ladies they're ladies are for for sewing tech i feel like they're pretty up on it that's --- ### [Make A Negroni With Three Equal Parts](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2cf1264-b5e3-4cce-9a62-89449847d3e0) 🎧 01:03:31 - 01:04:53 (01:22) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/ea97892c-c437-4f10-8fb7-8cb8427d9ce9" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Make a Negroni with equal parts Campari, sweet vermouth, and gin for a simple three-step cocktail ritual. - Aaron uses it as an end-of-day shower ritual; substitute Aperol if you prefer a sweeter, milder version. #### 💬 Quote > It's three steps and it's very easy and it's all one one one so it's one part Campari, one part sweet vermouth, and then one part gin. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing the Negroni recipe #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** Three Three steps. Easy to remember. There are variations on a theme you can adjust to taste. it's three steps and it's very easy and it's all one one so it's one part of each one part campari which is very bitter um which is what gives it the flavor that i like jennifer does not like the campari so you can do an aperol spritz i'm sorry an aperol negroni which is a lot sweeter so that substitutes the campari for the aperol so the traditional one is one part aperol one part uh sweet vermouth which is like the red it's almost like red wine but um sweeter not not quite as dry wait one part **Ian Landsman:** aperol is the default oh no one part **Aaron Francis:** campari it's all in my head one part Campari, one part sweet vermouth, and then one part gin. So it's a gin-based drink. I think the – oh, there's a whiskey version of it that somebody's shouting. It's not a Sazerac. It's a – I don't know. But if you swap out the gin for the whiskey, that is a different differently named drink. That's a little a little darker and more broody. Right. I like that. Yeah, I like I'm I'm on I think I'm on like a seven or eight year Negroni kick. **Ian Landsman:** Holy cow. **Aaron Francis:** Yeah, it's just you find you find something you like like a T-shirt or a drink. --- Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts # Snips updated after 2026-08-12T15:56:21 ### [Use AI Agents To Learn A New Company Fast](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8f1bb520-7da8-44a5-a58f-80895f001681) 🎧 01:09 - 02:50 (01:40) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/65c74660-faa6-4df4-b59a-c93870534d46" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Use built-in AI agents in tools like Notion and Linear to get a 30,000-foot overview when joining a new company. - Aaron used agents to find where docs live and quickly orient across Notion, Linear, and Slack instead of digging for months. #### 💬 Quote > They both have built-in AI agents. [...] give me an overview. I don't know where to click. I don't know where to go. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on using Notion and Linear AI agents to onboard #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** Um, but you know, in a, in a remote company, the size there, there are a lot of tools. And so I'm like, I'm getting into notion. I'm getting into linear, I'm getting into Slack and just, just trying to figure out what's, uh, what's up to date, what needs to be brought up to date, all, all of that kind of stuff. ran my first, uh, weekly marketing meeting, which was fun. Yeah, very fun. So yeah, it was great. I looked up and it was 635. And I texted Jennifer and I was like, Oh, shoot, because I'm supposed to leave here by like 625 at the very latest. And so I texted her and I was like, I'm running out the door. But it was just like, all day long doing stuff, man. **Ian Landsman:** it's good have you have you thrown the uh the bots at uh all these documents yet to get you up to speed have you been cheating yes good yes so seems it's advantageous you know yeah **Aaron Francis:** linear notion and i've i've used neither of these tools neither linear nor notion okay notion I have like a emotional aversion to. Like I just don't want to use it. And so historically, I have avoided it. But now I'm getting in there to like clean stuff up and put my fingerprints on it. But they both have built-in AI agents. I actually just before we got on this call downloaded the notion desktop app. And I'm going to see if I can hook up my local CLI agent to it through MCP or something. But those are very helpful for like, what the hell's going on here? Like, give me an overview. --- ### [Solo Emcee Moment At LaraProm](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3a43fd5c-05e6-4906-948b-1ed9e8bf9434) 🎧 04:40 - 07:18 (02:38) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/b99c8840-85f9-413c-aae1-a3a7b6d0eff4" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - After LaraProm Aaron found himself briefly left alone on the emcee duty when Aaron had to leave early. - He prepped an opening monologue late and snuck out with a foot out the door while Jennifer headed back to the hotel. #### 💬 Quote > I was on my own. But that's fine. I understood. He's got a big day the next day. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis recounting being left to emcee LaraProm #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** We left off Lara prom. We about it in the end of the last episode. We kind of, that was awesome. Thanks everybody for coming out. Really cool event. But well, let's, let's just wrap up theair Prom with the evening's coming to a close. People are like, hey, you should say a little something. That's great. **Aaron Francis:** bad. **Ian Landsman:** Let's get Aaron over here. We'll say something to the hundreds of people who are still here. They're like, no, no, no. Aaron's gone. Aaron's been gone. No, **Aaron Francis:** no, no, no. So on my own. But that's fine. I understood. I understood. He's got a big day the next day. I understood. Do not besmirch my honor this is what they told me it's **Ian Landsman:** what i was told they **Aaron Francis:** told you that because it's true but let's let's get some details what time what time was this big speech **Ian Landsman:** oh it was you know at 9 50 or whatever no way i was out at 10 **Aaron Francis:** i was out at 10 we just missed ships in the night we just missed each other yeah **Ian Landsman:** it could be it could be all right **Aaron Francis:** so i sent i sent jennifer home a little bit early because she was kind of like uh talked out you know she she actually had a blast um but it's exhausting meeting all the new people. Yeah. And I was like, all right, you know, I still got a job to do. Why don't you just head back to the hotel? And so then I, you know, I walk around, I shake some hands, I kiss some babies. Sure. And then at some point I'm like, man, I got a big, I got a big task to do in the morning. The emceeing part, I love, especially at Lyricon, because all these people are my friends. And so I can just get up there and I always write notes for the speakers. But for this group, I could just get up there and totally wing it and it would come off great. Because I've known these people for 10 years. But the thing I was stressed about was, uh, my, my opening monologue. And so around, around 10 PM, I was like, I went over to Abby and I was like, Hey, you have tons of people that are going to help you. Right. And she's like, yeah. And I double checked cause it was like, this is a whole prom and I don't want you cleaning it up by yourself. She was like, no, I've got, you know, she had, she'd like built a whole app to assign staff their roles, which is super impressive. And so she, she double confirmed that she was good. And then that's when I sneaked out. So it must've been as they were handing you the microphone, I had a foot out the door. Yeah. Your heel. You were like, yeah, I was like, oh, is that my name? I'm out of here. --- ### [First Day Announcement Nerves On Stage](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a0f6c66e-4213-44a7-b444-d545358118b0) 🎧 08:34 - 11:43 (03:09) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/0bde2044-461b-4a9d-ae77-4d57dd5cd714" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Ian announced Aaron as Laravel's new VP of Marketing live at Laracon, and Aaron felt genuine nerves because he was speaking on behalf of the company. - Backstage he practiced the arc and then walked out to surprised faces like Pavlos with mouth open. #### 💬 Quote > I was feeling very nervous [...] I am speaking on behalf of the company on day one to like the core audience. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on nervousness announcing his Laravel role at Laracon #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** People are very excited. People are very surprised. And you had like a 10-minute speech. So cover the highlights for us. And what you were feeling as you walked out there and Taylor announced you. That's what I – forget the speech. I wanted to know what you were feeling when Taylor was up there about to announce you. And then that's **Aaron Francis:** nervous. I was feeling very nervous um so taylor and i workshopped it a little bit and we decided to go with like a bait and switch of hey you know normally we have a community member do this like we're gonna switch it up this year we're gonna have our new vice president of marketing be the mc today's his first day and so that the bait and switch was great yeah because people are like oh dude aaron's on the schedule but like taylor's coming out and he's saying that community members not going to do it love you know love a roller coaster that part that part was flawless um so i was feeling very very. I don't get nervous about going on stage. But this was like my first, this was my first, you know, announcement of, you know, company direction, basically. I serve at the pleasure of, you know, Laravel Holdings Incorporated. I'm a man under authority and I go where I'm sent. Right. And so historically it was very easy. I could just either speak from my point of view or just like reiterate things that have been coming from the mothership. And nobody, nobody views me as, at least I try not to uh views me as speaking on behalf of the company right and so historically opening monologues have been easy because it's like here's what's on my mind here's what i'm seeing in the community we're all here to you know have fun this time it was like i am i am speaking on behalf of the company on day one to like the core audience. Like this is, this is the group of people that make up the core of the Laravel community, or at least part of that core. And so, um, you know, surprising no one, I took this duty. I think it is like, it is a noble duty. I took it very seriously. And so backstage, like, well, the night before, so when I went home from the prom, I had like the, the narrative arc of what I was going to say in my head, but I did not have, I was not like totally confident on the actual wording. Um, so I stayed up a little late. I got up a little early. I practiced it a bunch of times in my head. And so I was pretty confident about what I was going to say before I went out there. But just being backstage and like hearing vice president, employee, all this stuff, I'm like, holy crap, like, this is this is the big show. This is real. And then I walked out and people were very surprised. The one face I remember specifically was Pavlos. He was just like, literally mouth open. Like, what? What is going on? --- ### [Narrative Arc For Announcing A Leadership Move](https://share.snipd.com/snip/abf17918-dec7-4b1b-bb48-7fff21077d57) 🎧 13:08 - 15:26 (02:17) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/db7261c2-02b6-4830-940c-d5ac99a48333" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron structured his Laracon opening with a tight narrative: announce he's joining, explain why now, then pivot to community purpose. - He framed PHP/Laravel as artisans expanding into builders and challenged the community to stay welcoming. #### 💬 Quote > Yes, I'm starting at Laravel. You may be wondering why right now. Well, here's why right now... land the artisans, expand to builders, and then issue a challenge. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on the structure of his Laracon announcement speech #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** to start like when i'm writing a talk or preparing even even like a like a wedding toast right I always try to have some sort of like narrative or thematic arc and then I can fill in like that that's the bones and then I can fill in the flesh kind of around that and so the arc here was um I'm joining Laravel why why am I joining Laravel right now? Yeah. And then I can take that why right now and quickly pivot away from me and start talking about the community and the industry. So I didn't want the whole talk to be about me because that's exciting for me and Jennifer and boring for everyone else. So it was a quick, like, let's land. Yes, I'm starting at Laravel. You may be wondering why right now. Well, here's why right now. Here's what I see happening in this community and in the industry. So that was the arc. The mini arc inside of like, here's what I'm seeing in the industry was um basically the world is being like flooded with new builders which i think you and i would both agree and have seen that technically minded non-technical people are starting to code or quote unquote code it doesn't really matter they're starting to build things yeah and the mini arc inside of the why now is, um, you know, speaking to the people in the room, you're all artisans expanding their identity to we're all builders. I think that is something that is core to the PHP ethos and the Laravel ethos, but going all the way back to PHP, all kind of like builders, dreamers, hackers. So land the artisans, expand to builders, and then issue a challenge and like a purpose for the community. And the purpose and the challenge is, hey guys, we have this opportunity to become the de facto place where people of all artisan expertises, the de facto place where those people build and basically like encourage them continue to be welcoming as you've always been welcoming. --- ### [One Track Creates A Stronger Conference Experience](https://share.snipd.com/snip/34de577b-a7c5-4542-947d-c00c0283d02c) 🎧 20:20 - 20:55 (00:35) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/94b1b6c0-b4e7-41a2-bb1d-85f35b6e16d5" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron prefers one-track conferences because a single program creates a shared experience and better post-talk conversations. - He says one track avoids constant run-to-next-talk friction and unifies attendee discussion. #### 💬 Quote > I'm a huge fan of the one track that just creates a shared experience for everyone. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on conference format preference #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** stuff um i think big picture it was i think it was 99 perfect i really do there we go um i think'm, I'm a huge fan of the one track that just creates a shared experience for everyone. It reduces this interstitial, like, Oh, I got to run to my next talk. I got to figure out my next talk. Uh, well, well, whatever, I'll just not go to any talks. Um, and it creates one cohesive experience for all attendees. --- ### [Ship Or Die Game Show At Laracon](https://share.snipd.com/snip/271b1e0e-e417-4529-85af-a0cc3693d5d5) 🎧 25:58 - 29:00 (03:01) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/9081eb3e-721d-484b-a6ee-18732b980da7" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Laracon ended with a playful 'Ship Or Die' segment where presenters had three minutes, then panelists grilled viability and winners got cloud credits and keyboards. - Ian called on Aaron from the audience to loudly cheer 'Ship it' as a joke about Aaron's shipping reputation. #### 💬 Quote > Instead we did a little fake game show called ship or die [...] they got three minutes on stage of screen time and after the three minutes [...] the house cut off their slides. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing the Ship Or Die segment at Laracon #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** So you, you mentioned this in yesterday's episode, but at the end of Laracon, we had this inspired idea and I can say this because it wasn't my idea. I believe it was a Gen Z Abby's idea instead of just the, uh, what could be a boring panel of like, Oh, what's open source gonna, uh, what's going to happen in the age of AI? Like, yeah, okay. I'm so tired of that. Um, instead we did a little, little fake game show called ship or which was a lot of fun. so we had seven members of the community uh we had a bunch of people submit and uh we all picked seven and they got three minutes on stage of screen time and after the three minutes uh went went down the house cut off their slides which was awesome it was perfect It added a little bit of suspense. So they could present their project. And then they went over to a group of panelists that included Torsten, Adam Wathen, Taylor, and Hannah Jehoviak, who's a salesperson on our team. And the panelists got to ask them a bunch of questions about like is this intended to make money how like how are you going to get customers and then you know they got a bunch of cloud credits and a keyboard so it was it was it was silly it was fun the projects varied widely which was great so there's one project that's a poker project right oh during during the guy's poker presentation i'm looking in the audience and i find you and i say i tap on my chest and i say i'm gonna call on you and i want you to stand up and shout and you're like got it got it got it i needed to tell you literally nothing you would have been ready if i didn't even warn you I was ready yes um so the guy finishes his presentation and I do a little bit of acting and I you know I say is there is there a wild Ian Landsman out in the audience and you stood up and so give us give us your perspective what happened there yeah **Ian Landsman:** so it was I had like a sort of interesting idea but yeah I was like oh yeah this is all me I was just like I just yell out I'm like ship it. Just ship it. That's it. I said he needed a mobile app. I was like, you need a mobile app. So I gave a little bit of feedback. And I was like, ship it. And it was kind of funny because the people on stage were clearly not on the ship it camp entirely. So that's why I was just like, I'm leaning all the way in. Just ship it. It's poker. We're shipping it. And everybody got it. The audience laughed a lot and that was really cool that everybody got the joke got the poker got why i'd be into the poker got why you're calling on me to do the poker **Aaron Francis:** app and i think the moment we both knew wow there are a of mostly technical listeners here after you like told them you know three four times to ship it i said ah don't listen to Ian. He never ships anything. And everyone got it. Everyone got it. It was great. --- ### [Rice On Nachos Caused RiceGate](https://share.snipd.com/snip/724a660e-310d-4b8e-8c0a-8b354f85a331) 🎧 38:31 - 45:54 (07:22) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/7a13e128-9439-4b03-abfb-c0e8cb78fdb8" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - At 2 a.m. Aaron, Ian, Jon O'Nolan, and James Brooks went on a nacho hunt and Aaron put rice on his nachos, which sparked outrage and amusement. - Ian says staff and onlookers reacted with horror while Aaron defended the messy pile as delicious. #### 💬 Quote > I saw rice and thought rice sounds good. The rice does not destroy the pile. It was a messy pile... the rice so good. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on putting rice on late-night nachos #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** Just **Aaron Francis:** going to have to bite my tongue here because this is not as big of a deal as you want **Ian Landsman:** the people to believe it is. Okay. After we go out to a nice dinner, Label team is doing their thing. Trying to coordinate with people. Bossman Chris from Philly. Brandon Kelly from Craft CMS. He's like an old-time PHP guy I know. Anyway, we meet up at a bar. We're having drinks. Everything's going great. Laravel people start showing up at our bar. Awesome. Laravel people are there, whatever. You're there. You show up eventually. We're hanging out. We're having a great time. 2 o'clock or whatever. We're like, all right, we're done with the bar. We're going home. We walk home. We go in a hotel. There's James Brooks. He's got a big pile of nachos. The best looking nachos **Aaron Francis:** you've ever seen in your life. Great of nachos. As far as piles of nachos go, this was number one. It was great. So we were like, where'd you them nachos? He **Ian Landsman:** points us in the right direction. He comes along with us. He's like, I'll show you where the nachos are. He's a nacho guy. What Yeah. So he brings us to the nachos, okay? We go. So it's **Aaron Francis:** you, me, Jono Nolan, and James Brooks. Yes. **Ian Landsman:** Right? Great crew. Love the crew. 2 a.m. I love a walk at 2 a.m. I love a 2 a.m. **Aaron Francis:** nacho hunt. That's, God. That's peak. top tier. That is peak. **Ian Landsman:** Top tier stuff. So we get to the nacho place. It looks great. It's got the right vibe. I'm enjoying the vibe. It's like a little dirty, but not grossly dirty. It's got like **Aaron Francis:** good energy in there. Kind of like a Chipotle setup. It's a build your own counter service walkthrough thing. But it's not Chipotle, but **Ian Landsman:** it's like that. So you go first. And **Aaron Francis:** it's 2 a.m 2 a.m and and we we have we've been enjoying ourselves you have okay and i have okay that's true you're **Ian Landsman:** like i'm gonna have some nachos because that's what we're there for there was no we didn't the menu is irrelevant we're not getting tacos we're not getting anything else we're getting nachos okay you you say you order nachos she gets the tray nachos they're warming she's got the nice warm nachos on there i think she puts some cheese on first that's all fine and then she's like what do you want and you like you have her put rice **Aaron Francis:** there was rice there nachos there was rice there ketchup there there's **Ian Landsman:** all kinds of things there's no ketchup there there was rice there first of all rice the nachos okay right this is **Aaron Francis:** not this is not a deeply held religious belief i saw rice yeah and i thought rice sounds good that was it i'm not i'm I'm not making I'm not making a statement about whether rice belongs on. You are making a statement. I nearly by your actions. No, my eyes were my stomach. I rice and thought the the the entirety of the complex thought that went through my head was rice sounds good. And so I put the rice on the nachos okay and apparently apparently uh you're have you and john are having side chats with the employees trying to get them to admit that i'm insane you're going to find you get the rice this **Ian Landsman:** is unbelievable this is unbelievable you are a leader in the community, okay? You can't just be going out there doing crazy shit like this. Because you know what happens? The guy right behind you, poor John O'Nolan, who is between me and you, he gets rice on his nachos. And it was great. That's what it's supposed to be. It was great. So he gets rice on his nachos. And then I'm like, dude, what the hell is going on? So I'm freaking out back there, right? I'm like, this is insanity, rice on nachos so there's like four very nice employees back there they're all like you know these little uh ladies and they're all like it's 2 a.m it's 2 a.m i hate right they got you there i'm like i'm trying to talk to them be like this rice on nachos and they don't want to be on the hook because you're still there right i understand like i kind of put them in a spot so i was like okay you walked away and i was like the rice on the nachos right and the look on these women's faces was like pure horror they could not believe why is it you put the nachos why is it there if not to be used if you get a bowl of rice with some stuff on it that's a rice bowl you could have that that's totally fine that's not rice on nachos **Aaron Francis:** this is this is parsing too thin this is reading the text too closely okay this is insanity **Ian Landsman:** it **Aaron Francis:** was a it was a it was a messy it was a pile we've already talked about it was so good that's the rice so good. The rice does not destroy the pile. **Ian Landsman:** It's the stuff that's on the – no rice. You grab all **Aaron Francis:** these nachos. It's adding. So first of all, we did an episode a long time ago where I said that nachos, by their definition, is chips and cheese. Yeah, which everybody still talks lost your mind. You lost your mind. It's And now I'm out here – It's I'm out here being adventurous, being like – like nachos what if we try what if we try something new like what if i i hate trying new things what if we try something new i try something new and now we're hearing about it now the world many many hundreds of thousands of listeners this episode are hearing that aaron's an idiot i saw rice and i was like rice sounds good my tummy's kind of hungry what if i got some rice **Ian Landsman:** you're out there like chips cheese and rice is nachos that's put you that this is not a statement this is not a we gotta send aaron away sorry kids daddy had to go away for a while he's got to get his shit worked out because he thinks chips, cheese, and rice is nachos. And that's crazy. You're a whim **Aaron Francis:** into a canonical statement. This is not a canonical statement. And for the record, it was chips, cheese. There was rice, I think. There was like queso. There was meat. There was black beans. stuff. **Ian Landsman:** Thank God. I the whole thing. **Aaron Francis:** Anything that was green, I didn't put on there, obviously. But like it was a full messy 2 a.m. nacho pile. I'm not. This is. You're turning this into a **Ian Landsman:** witch hunt. We're like, he's insane. Okay. You think I'm making this up? They were all like, this guy's nuts. Just get him the hell out of here. **Aaron Francis:** This is unbelievable. This is why we had to save this for a second day because this is crazy. One of the crazier things I've ever seen **Ian Landsman:** in person in my whole life. This is like, it's real high up there. It's real high up there like oh **Aaron Francis:** i'm sorry for being so adventurous with my culinary tastes it is **Ian Landsman:** adventurous have you ever had rice are bland you put more bland rice on top that's crazy no no comment down below people comment to us onOut. We want to know if Aaron's crazy for putting rice on chips. We know he is, but just confirm it. **Aaron Francis:** Rice gate is completely **Ian Landsman:** blown out of proportion. This is insane. Dude, it's under proportion. I should have led with this on the last show. I should have led with it again on this show. It should have been the full lead both days because it's freaking crazy. --- ### [First Class Lounge Turned Aaron Into A Believer](https://share.snipd.com/snip/31f0885d-add0-4d7e-b9c3-899b79efb4bb) 🎧 47:54 - 50:30 (02:36) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/d4174a93-3bf7-4a5d-83d7-d85aff4010df" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron experimented with buying first class on the Boston–Dallas return and loved the lounge, unlimited sodas, quiet space, hot towel, and priority boarding. - He used points to access the lounge and recommends treating first-class as a productivity and comfort boost. #### 💬 Quote > First class is better. It's just better. We went to the American Airlines first class lounge. I felt like a kid trying to get into my dad's office. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing his first class lounge experience #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** First class is better. It's just better. It's just better. It's unbelievable. We went to the American Airlines first class lounge. And I felt like a kid trying to get into my dad's office. I walk up and I'm like, excuse me, ma'am, I'm first class. And she's like, great. How do you want to pay to get into the lounge? And I'm like, oh, definitely, definitely. What does that mean? I thought I was special. And she was like, well, yes. She was like, well, in this terminal or airport or whatever, we don't have automatic first class or automatic lounge for domestic flights. And I was like, oh, obviously I'm so used to that. I just totally forgot. Trying not to look out of place. You Sam and I are at different counters and we're both discovering this information at the same time. And so I was like, yeah, whatever it costs, it's fine. Yeah, it's okay. We're big dogs. And so I paid it in points. I was like, do i have any points and she was like you have points like great let's use those there you go so i i paid for sam and i to get in the first class lounge um because we had to check out at 11 and we didn't board until two and we had nowhere to go you don't want to sit out there we don't want to sit with the unwashed masses of course can you imagine somebody bumping your elbow while you're trying to have your own elbow space trying to find **Ian Landsman:** the spot that's like away from everybody but not too far from the gate and you gotta like figure it all out yeah you know none of **Aaron Francis:** the plugs work yeah people are taking their shoes socks off for some reason get out of here with that so we go in the first class lounge we both immediately put our headphones on and ignore each other which is just ideal yeah and there's just soda it's unlimited sodas i mean there's of course a full you know bar and buffet and you know whatever but there are unlimited sodas so i'm just like a kid in the candy store i'm just killing this soda machine every time i get up on I, you know, point at Sam, I'm like, do you want something? And she's like, no, I don't. And I'm like, okay, I'm going to go get another soda. Um, and it was awesome. It was super quiet. It was clean chargers everywhere. And then I don't know if I mentioned, but there were sodas. It was unbelievable. And I had like a proper lunch. I went to the buffet, got a real lunch. So I'm not eating like a bag of chips or something. And I think I would like to get very rich because that was awesome. **Ian Landsman:** I would love to do that more. It's very good. I do think it's sort of interesting, at least in New York. --- ### [Learning To Sew To Customize Shirts](https://share.snipd.com/snip/3733c8d3-a5b5-4d92-8bde-1aa43027dff0) 🎧 54:55 - 59:24 (04:28) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/ec61d3b5-231c-4e2f-b063-708f60fed02e" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron bought a Brother sewing machine to add custom pockets and embroidery to heavyweight black shirts from House of Blanks. - He plans to learn basic sewing (or hire a teacher) and use embroidery to create subtle black-on-black branding. #### 💬 Quote > I got a brother sewing machine. I'm going to learn how to sew pockets onto my new shirts. I can embroider things and make my own black on black. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on buying a sewing machine to modify shirts #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** I **Aaron Francis:** got a sewing machine. Ooh. I am going to learn. I'm going to have to hire a kindly old woman off of the internet to teach me how to sew. YouTube. I could YouTube. I think I just want a grandma to come for an hour once a week for like three, four, five to teach me how to use this brother sewing machine. So I got a brother sewing machine. Okay. Yeah. So you may recall, I found a new shirt supplier. Have we talked about, I know we've talked about this privately. I don't know if we've talked **Ian Landsman:** about this publicly. We definitely talked about it publicly. not even sure i'm aware of it privately but continue well **Aaron Francis:** we talked about it private privately because you and taylor were talking about needing tall shirts oh yes yes so i found a new shirt supplier um it is house of blanks so i got these great new shirts from house of blanks um they're like i think they're they're heavyweight t-shirts. And I like a shirt with a little bit of body, right? I don't want the American apparel, jersey knit, whatever stuff anymore. sticking to you. Oh, God. Leave a little form to the imagination, for goodness sakes. So I found these great shirts. And to give you a sense of how thick they are, I can wear the white shirt and leave everything to the imagination. The white shirt is not see-through. That's great. We love a non-see shirt. I do like that. So they're these thick shirts, crew neck. They fit well. They're not boxy. I, as I do, had this great idea. What if I learn how to sew pockets onto my new shirts? This is insane. Just one per shirt. It's not going to be like a pocket shirt. Right. Okay. So if I learned how to sew pockets, then I could make my own shirts basically. So I could extend the black shirt brand, right? I'm going to keep doing the black shirts, but then I can buy and I have a bunch of different fabrics, right? And so I can have a, I can have a fully black shirt with an accent pocket. And I'm going to make, I'm going to make the pockets out of these fabrics that I've sourced from the world wide web um and so i have you know jennifer's like what what are all of these packages and i'm like don't worry babe it's fabrics i've got a sewing machine coming and she's like i don't understand anything that you do i'm like that makes sense um so i've got all these fabrics now. I've got a shirt supplier. **Ian Landsman:** I love – see, you and me, this is where we're the same. Hold on. Because you've got to pre-buy everything. It's like you've got to be fully Oh, yeah, I haven't started. No, I haven't started a thing. No, of course not. This makes Jamie crazy because I do this with like photo stuff. I'm like, I can't just buy a camera and a lens. I've got all the lenses. I've got everything I possibly need in case I go out there and I actually have time to photograph things. Oh, **Aaron Francis:** for sure. you're all prepared. So I bought everything, which is half the fun, if I'm being **Ian Landsman:** honest. 90% of the fun. **Aaron Francis:** Yeah, really. And so now I gotta learn how to sew pockets. And this brother sewing machine also does like programmatic embroidery. And so I can just I can embroider things. Like this shirt here from Pete Heslop, this sweatshirt is the Steadfast Collective member of the community. And it's black embroidery on a black sweatshirt. And it's just unbelievably metal, right? And so now I can make my own unbelievably metal black on black. Yeah. So it's a brand extension we're not changing we're not changing the black t-shirt we're just adding uh custom pockets so that i can have this whole lineup of custom ish shirts with a solid base i can't make a shirt but give me give me a second i'll learn how to sew shirts fully but i'm going to start with learning how to sew pockets it's a great idea seems **Ian Landsman:** reasonable you're going to like sacrifice one shirt to like you know train on and put a bunch of pockets on it and i mean it sounds like this thing's so advanced it might just be able to it might just be all tells you yeah i can pretty much do it yeah **Aaron Francis:** i'm gonna hook it up to codex and it'll figure it all **Ian Landsman:** out this is where you don't need the old grandma to help you because she's not gonna know about the like auto programming nature of this thing like you're just i i don't know **Aaron Francis:** i don't know these these sewing ladies they're ladies are for for sewing tech i feel like they're pretty up on it that's --- ### [Make A Negroni With Three Equal Parts](https://share.snipd.com/snip/a2cf1264-b5e3-4cce-9a62-89449847d3e0) 🎧 01:03:31 - 01:04:53 (01:22) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/ea97892c-c437-4f10-8fb7-8cb8427d9ce9" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Make a Negroni with equal parts Campari, sweet vermouth, and gin for a simple three-step cocktail ritual. - Aaron uses it as an end-of-day shower ritual; substitute Aperol if you prefer a sweeter, milder version. #### 💬 Quote > It's three steps and it's very easy and it's all one one one so it's one part Campari, one part sweet vermouth, and then one part gin. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing the Negroni recipe #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** Three Three steps. Easy to remember. There are variations on a theme you can adjust to taste. it's three steps and it's very easy and it's all one one one it's one part of each one part campari which is very bitter um which is what gives it the flavor that i like jennifer does not like the campari so you can do an aperol spritz i'm sorry an aperol negroni which is a lot sweeter so that substitutes the campari for the aperol so the traditional one is one part aperol one part uh sweet vermouth which is like the red it's almost like red wine but um sweeter not not quite as dry wait one part **Ian Landsman:** aperol is the default oh no one part **Aaron Francis:** campari it's all in my head one part Campari, one part sweet vermouth, and then one part gin. So it's a gin-based drink. I think the – oh, there's a whiskey version of it that somebody's shouting. It's not a Sazerac. It's a – I don't know. But if you swap out the gin for the whiskey, that is a different differently named drink. That's a little a little darker and more broody. Right. I like that. Yeah, I like I'm I'm on I think I'm on like a seven or eight year Negroni kick. **Ian Landsman:** Holy cow. **Aaron Francis:** Yeah, it's just you find you find something you like like a T-shirt or a drink. ---