# 87: No Sparkle Buttons  ## Episode metadata - Episode title: 87: No Sparkle Buttons - Show: Mostly Technical - Owner / Host: Ian Landsman and Aaron Francis - Episode publish date: 2025-06-17 - Episode AI description: The hosts dive into the evolving world of UI Kits and how AI is reshaping design. They share personal stories from Father's Day, reflecting on parenthood's joys and challenges. Excitement builds for the upcoming Laracon conference, alongside discussions about tech trends and the impact of traditional software in a digital age. Naming and branding in tech are explored, with humorous anecdotes about securing memorable domain names. A light-hearted guessing game adds fun, showing the joy of connecting with loved ones. - Duration: 01:02:21 - Episode URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/episode/41c749a7-48d1-4f86-ba4b-d8630c2ba8c6) - Show URL: [Open in Snipd](https://share.snipd.com/show/7ad45fb4-8aa6-49c2-83cc-bc2327d14b03) - Export date: 2026-02-17T23:24:34 ## Snips ### [Father's Day: Chaos and Calm](https://share.snipd.com/snip/89749e64-54b4-41e7-9a06-a1c204577685) 🎧 00:09 - 02:34 (02:24) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/3e9b6821-46d8-4dc9-a522-077f4e2cb10e" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron Francis shared a tense Father's Day night dealing with his son's croup requiring urgent care. - He contrasted the scary illness moments with the rare joy of a solo breakfast and bookstore visit. #### 💬 Quote > He was like I'm gasping for breath which you know not the thing you really want to be like woken up to on the monitor. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis recounting father's day experiences #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** to you by Lair Jobs, the official Laravel job board, and Screencasting.com, where you can learn how to create high-quality screencasts faster than ever. Now, Ian and Aaron. **Ian Landsman:** Jump right on here, you know? We just hit record. This **Aaron Francis:** is not your first time. Why did you freeze when it hit zero? Oh, man. Did I freeze? Yeah, it hit zero, and then, well, **Ian Landsman:** here we are. on the show. How are we doing, Ian? We're here. We're here. We just hop on live, I was saying. We just hit record. We get on. We hit record. There's no other stuff. You're not missing anything when you listen to the show. We don't leave anything on the cutting room floor. It's all here. **Aaron Francis:** We don't. We save all the good stuff for you. How was your father's day? It was a good father's day. I will say it ended last night with my wife taking a trip to the urgent care. So I didn't drive this time. I stayed home and monitored the situation. But we have another round of croup. And this time it hit the older boy and yeah just last night at like you know 11 so it wasn't four in the morning oh yeah that's good uh just heard like wheezing and gasping and it was truly terrifying like what is going on here when it hit the younger girl it was kind of just like she sounded like a smoker but she didn't really seem you know bothered by the whole thing yeah but he was like i'm gasping for breath which you know not the thing you really want to be like woken up to on the monitor it's always when you wake up **Ian Landsman:** to it **Aaron Francis:** oh gosh yeah i was so disoriented and yeah so he ended up going to the urgent care oh boy last night i know so we got some more steroids for him um but that group stuff they're just messing around with that that's a big deal **Ian Landsman:** i kind of forgot about all that stuff i think we definitely had that passed through a few but i've uh i blocked it out of my mind you know it's yeah right with that scary but **Aaron Francis:** before that uh good father's day saturday morning saturday was my gift. So I woke the kids up, got them down to the table, set up for breakfast, and then I was off. So I always wake the big kids up. I was off until they woke up from nap, which is like 3, 3.30. So I went out and had breakfast by myself which is awesome that's god i texted --- ### [Slow AI Adoption in Companies](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8f194adb-803c-4a10-9b40-833bbad1a63e) 🎧 13:24 - 15:25 (02:01) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/3602cfab-7287-4bcc-9aba-58a940f4d700" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Despite AI hype, many companies prefer to keep AI features off, skeptical of current AI integration. - It may take decades for widespread AI adoption in established companies, creating opportunities for AI ideas today. #### 💬 Quote > Nobody wants the AI. They're all like, no, we don't want the AI. [...] We're like decades from like this seeping into a lot of places. > — Ian Landsman Ian Landsman on companies' cautious stance towards AI #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** Yes. I mean, this has been my lane. Like, help desk software is not new. It's like, yeah, we're still on this old thing that's been around a long time, and it's not sexy, although it's getting sexier. But even that, I did a demo the other day. It's still, it's amazing. Every demo I've done, so I've been doing the demo since producer Dave left Userscape, right? And I talked to Dave about this even previously when he was doing a demo, so it's not like total shock to me. But when you're hearing it yourself, you know, it's always a little different. And nobody wants the AI. They're all like, no, we don't want the AI. Like if you're talking to any company that's more than a few people, they're like, nope, is there a way to turn it off? We got to turn it off. Don't put **Aaron Francis:** any of those sparkle buttons all over my UI. I don't want to touch it. **Ian Landsman:** Like, no AI, we don't want it, we can't have it. Everybody said, don't, you know, it's a deal breaker or whatever. It's like, okay, like, don't worry, like, you can turn it off. Ours doesn't even do that much AI to get with, and you can turn off what's theirs. Yeah, it's fascinating this sort of where everybody's heads at on it. And like, when you're in technology and how much like everybody's starting an AI newsletter, right? That's like, you know, seven people starting an AI newsletter. But then like, you know, the real, how long it takes for these things to infiltrate the real, when this like, this was a big company I gave this demo to that everybody would know. And like, you know, they had me fill out this AI worksheet before the demo. And then when they're there, they obviously hadn't even looked at the worksheet. And this worksheet had like a million questions about what are you going to do with our data? And they're like, we just aren't, it's going to be off, right? And we're like, yeah, that's fine. It could be off. So it's like, how long it's going to take for that to seep into this company and then be like, yes, we want your AI. We want to use it. We're like decades from like this seeping into a lot of places. Some places it'll get in too fast, but there's a lot of places where you actually have plenty of time if you have some AI idea because everybody's not switching over tomorrow. There's --- ### [React Dominates AI-Generated UI](https://share.snipd.com/snip/647718dc-e094-4955-8e04-e68ab3404d10) 🎧 18:20 - 19:25 (01:05) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/6f8fc431-5fc0-4d6b-a026-2815f2f89739" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - React dominates UI components creation especially as AI tools often default to producing React code. - This dominance challenges non-React UI kits to find their place in the AI and development ecosystem. #### 💬 Quote > All the biggest component libraries were React. [...] AI produces React code and then we came in with a UI kit that's Rails Turbo. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis discussing Brian Castle's instrumental components timing and React's dominance #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** if all the machines are produced in react i guess i guess that could be true i don't i'm not sure you don't buy it i don't i don't i don't know if i totally buy it i mean i think it's it's obviously true that react the big dog, right? But I think that was true before the AI, really. Like, I mean, all the biggest component libraries were React. All the best, you know, open source component libraries were React. Like, this was all true before. I don't know that AI is, like, the total thing with that. And obviously, that's not, like a place you want to commercially compete in because all the best open source ones are really good and free and React. So you don't want to React component library, of course, and commercial one. But I don't know. I feel like these niches are where you make, I mean, I feel like Caleb feels like he's done pretty well. I don't know exactly, but I feel like in listening to him talk about it, it it like he's done pretty well. I think it's more like still ultimately, this is like, I mean, I think about this all the time. Like the last couple of weekends I've been chipping away. A little idea. I got something similar. I don't know. **Aaron Francis:** You're holding out --- ### [Tailwind's One-Time Payment Value](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4d4e433a-952c-4811-85d6-eefdc362b12a) 🎧 23:43 - 27:50 (04:06) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/b4d81042-c359-4589-865e-11dc73b75275" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Aaron Francis shared a lunch meeting with a friend who lost car keys but still used the car and carried his computer everywhere. - The friend praised Tailwind's one-time payment model, valuing it more than a recurring Adobe Creative Cloud subscription. #### 💬 Quote > I pay Adobe Creative Cloud every month [...] I've gotten way more value out of Tailwind. And I paid them once like eight years ago. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on a friend's experience with Tailwind UI vs Adobe Creative Cloud #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** You can find them at nativephp.com/mobile. This podcast is also brought to you by Forward MX, an email forwarding service. Great for side projects. Collect all of the emails from your different domains in a central inbox like your Gmail and reply from your domains using our SMTP functionality. So for all you side projecters out there, go to forwardmx.net **Ian Landsman:** if you want to wrangle your emails. Okay. We jumped on so early today that normally the one thing we do do is organize. The one thing we do. Yeah. We didn't even do that. We were so excited to get in. We just had to get in. I **Aaron Francis:** just went for it. I think last week I did three and I did the top three and I went second. So I'm doing the bottom two. Just went for **Ian Landsman:** it. Before we got on, I had pre-processed this. And I was like, okay, I'll do the top three second. And we're on the same page. Look at that. just and **Aaron Francis:** yang here. That's what professionalism looks like. Yes. Yes. All right. My Tailwind UI story in the wild. a couple months ago, a friend that I hadn't talked to in, you know, years texted me. They were, uh, uh, I think his wife is a friend of Jennifer's. And so we went out a few times, you know, pre kids long time ago, hadn't talked to him in a while. Um, he texted me and was like, Hey, I got, I've got some Postgres problems. Can you help? And then I know, I know, it's crazy. And then I forgot about it. And then I texted him back recently and was like, hey, I forgot about this. Do you still need help? And he's like, yeah, let's go grab lunch. So we went and grabbed lunch. First thing, great bit, great bit of comedy. You'll super appreciate this. He walks in with his backpack. And I'm like, oh, we're going to like, you know, we're going to we're going to get out the computer here at the restaurant and do some work. And he said, I didn't bring I didn't bring this in, you know, just for you. I can show you some of the database stuff. But I, you know, a couple of months ago, I I lost my keys inside my car so I can still start the car, but I can't lock it. So I **Ian Landsman:** don't know **Aaron Francis:** where they are. So I just bring my computer in everywhere i go but there's somewhere in the vehicle so i can still drive and i told him that is just the greatest bit of like opening comedy that you could possibly have is i lost my keys inside my car months ago and you know what we just we just go with it so this guy is um i don't know if he's like cto co-founder whatever but he works at this pretty big company and um he's either the founder co-founder or like the first engineer i don't really know um but he works at this big company and we were talking about you know his problems with scaling they're growing super fast, doing amazing, talking about that and how his time is so limited. And then we were talking about like my business, our business and how we can sell into more companies that like have like big, like these big old kind of companies, how we can sell into those more. And one of the things he said was he brought up Tailwind just on his own. He's like, so for example, with Tailwind, I pay, I pay Adobe Creative Cloud every month for who knows what and who knows how much. And I've gotten way more value out of Tailwind. And I paid them once like eight years ago. And there's nothing else. I was like, I was like, it was like I was listening to every podcast Adam's ever been on the guy was like I would love to give Adam more money but there's nothing else I can buy right and like if he had just made it subscription I would have been paying for the past eight years because I get more out of that than I do out of Adobe Creative Cloud I was like yeah I heard that one before but I just thought it's so interesting to hear somebody that's like not in the bubble. Like he's not, I don't think he's on Twitter at all. But to hear him say the exact same things that Adam has been lamenting about his business model for so long. This guy's like, yeah, I would love to give him money, but I can't. **Ian Landsman:** But you have to wonder, see, I think that there's like, so like you now --- ### [One-Time Purchase vs Subscription Model](https://share.snipd.com/snip/08628e90-2e96-4e19-979c-104fccdc27bf) 🎧 24:51 - 29:25 (04:34) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/8b59e3e9-631e-4109-985f-bd776881049c" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Big companies often buy one-time purchase UI kits and get long-term value without continued payments. - This creates a challenge to move traditional buyers to subscription models despite ongoing value. #### 💬 Quote > He said, 'I would love to give Adam more money but there's nothing else I can buy' [...] if he had just made it subscription I would have been paying for eight years. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis describing big company customer's view on Tailwind UI pricing #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** months ago, a friend that I hadn't talked to in, you know, 10 texted me. They were, uh, uh, I think his wife is a friend of Jennifer's. And so we went out a few times, you know, pre kids long time ago, hadn't talked to him in a while. Um, he texted me and was like, Hey, I got, I've got some Postgres problems. Can you help? And then I know, I know, it's crazy. And then I forgot about it. And then I texted him back recently and was like, hey, I forgot about this. Do you still need help? And he's like, yeah, let's go grab lunch. So we went and grabbed lunch. First thing, great bit, great bit of comedy. You'll super appreciate this. He walks in with his backpack. And I'm like, oh, we're going to like, you know, we're going to we're going to get out the computer here at the restaurant and do some work. And he said, I didn't bring I didn't bring this in, you know, just for you. I can show you some of the database stuff. But I, you know, a couple of months ago, I I lost my keys inside my car so I can still start the car, but I can't lock it. So I **Ian Landsman:** don't know **Aaron Francis:** where they are. So I just bring my computer in everywhere i go but there's somewhere in the vehicle so i can still drive and i told him that is just the greatest bit of like opening comedy that you could possibly have is i lost my keys inside my car months ago and you know what we just we just go with it so this guy is um i don't know if he's like cto co-founder whatever but he works at this pretty big company and um he's either the founder co-founder or like the first engineer i don't really know um but he works at this big company and we were talking about you know his problems with scaling they're growing super fast, doing amazing, talking about that and how his time is so limited. And then we were talking about like my business, our business and how we can sell into more companies that like have like big, like these big old kind of companies, how we can sell into those more. And one of the things he said was he brought up Tailwind just on his own. He's like, so for example, with Tailwind, I pay, I pay Adobe Creative Cloud every month for who knows what and who knows how much. And I've gotten way more value out of Tailwind. And I paid them once like eight years ago. And there's nothing else. I was like, I was like, it was like I was listening to every podcast Adam's ever been on the guy was like I would love to give Adam more money but there's nothing else I can buy right and like if he had just made it subscription I would have been paying for the past eight years because I get more out of that than I do out of Adobe Creative Cloud I was like yeah I heard that one before but I just thought it's so interesting to hear somebody that's like not in the bubble. Like he's not, I don't think he's on Twitter at all. But to hear him say the exact same things that Adam has been lamenting about his business model for so long. This guy's like, yeah, I would love to give him money, but I can't. **Ian Landsman:** But you have to wonder, see, I think that there's like, so like you now know eight years later how much value you've gotten out of it do what mean but when he really was right there and he plunked out his credit card to pay that money what did he know did he feel confident he was getting eight years of value you know i or was it like i bought it on a whim and now it's worked out and that's been great like i don't know i just well his point his point was **Aaron Francis:** um it's company money. So he doesn't care. Sure. And so that's the thing that I think, well, I don't know. It seems pretty true. Seems pretty true to me. He was like, you know, we pay this much for this and, you know, we pay this much in salaries. Like I do not care. All I want is more like more, uh, you know, tailwind UI stuff. Yeah. I **Ian Landsman:** don't know I mean I think that it's like it's also big picture though right like what percentage of tailwinds revenue is big company buyers who literally don't care you know and how many are like just individual devs or small agencies or things like that where they actually do care more didn't I mean like I think it's a pretty **Aaron Francis:** high percentage of that. personally pay a subscription for Tailwind UI. But, yeah, I don't know. I would, **Ian Landsman:** I think. Because I do like it as a fill-in for, like, even when I'm using Flux for stuff, it's like sometimes there's just not a thing, right? And it's like, well, I can, like, grab something out of Tailwind UI and tweak it and whatever. So I go between them, but yeah. But if I didn't know Adam and I was like in the sort of market for components, I don't know. You know, that's a whole other world we've talked about, like big --- ### [Target AWS Ecosystem for Training](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d2582bd8-e800-4396-88ba-47b53b0a872a) 🎧 31:00 - 32:09 (01:09) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/20d9d7e8-fe99-4ab4-85af-84a1b843b667" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Focus on cloud ecosystem tools like AWS offerings, OpenSearch, and Redis to target AWS-centric companies. - Teaching these common technologies increases relevance and potential customer engagement. #### 💬 Quote > He was like, we're an AWS shop. So the reason we don't have a hosted database provider [...] is we keep everything in AWS. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis reporting advice from a founder on where to focus learning resources #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** Yeah. Give me, give me AWS. And **Aaron Francis:** so he was like, you got to go look at, you know, OpenSearch and, you know, Redis or Valky, DynamoDB. Like you just got to go where all of these AWS shops are spending their money, what they're using, and then teach on those things. And I was like, oh, that's actually a pretty good idea. Great. **Ian Landsman:** Way to go. We've talked about that on here. I like there's like, I mean, there's like going the full Amazon route, which is I think maybe not totally where you want to go. But there's like the sphere of databases, the next rung out, right? It's like not just purely, you know, Postgres and MySQL, right? It's like, yeah, vector databases and DynamoDB, whatever weirdo thing you want to consider that, right? And Redis and ClickHouse and, you know, that single store, whatever that thing is called, whatever. There's that whole other next level of like, what is it? sort of like a cache-y thing. It's sort of like a highly scalable thing. Or search. I think search would be an interesting angle. Search would be an interesting one. It's very related, right? Yeah. So doing Melee search and OpenSearch and whatever, a couple other ones, I think could all make sense. But --- ### [Double Dip Course Videos](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4f9d83d5-7e18-4248-99c8-44927e1c4399) 🎧 37:53 - 39:49 (01:55) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/8a74ccba-b544-446f-a0cd-901a7315d016" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Use course videos as free content on YouTube to build audience prior to launch. - This doubles as marketing and gives exposure without needing viral success. #### 💬 Quote > Can you double dip on like this becomes your YouTube marketing growth? [...] Some people are just gonna get that content for free. Who cares? It builds audience. > — Ian Landsman Ian Landsman advising Aaron Francis on video marketing strategy #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** the book. I see. So can you double dip on like this becomes your YouTube marketing growth? You're talking about the thing you're releasing. You're actually releasing the thing you're releasing. And, you know, and then I don't know, like, I think, Hey, some people are just gonna get that content for free. That's fine. Who cares? It builds audience. Some people are going to actually convert directly. Tons of people who aren't going to know you even did this on YouTube are just going to buy the course anyway, right? Even though maybe they could have gotten the piece that they wanted on YouTube, right? Who cares about all that? It's like, it doesn't even matter because like the world's a big place and you just got to keep pushing out into more of those people. And then it takes some of the pressure off you having to like come up with so many YouTube videos on top of so many course videos it's like maybe at these points where you're doing courses you can double dip them and i don't know if that would work on youtube maybe people wouldn't like it if it's part of a course and it's weird out of context or something but **Aaron Francis:** better better than a poke the eye i'm sure so what you're saying for sure what you're saying is a part of leading up to the launch be dripping these things out and say like hey this is what you're going to get. This is coming. Yep. Yep. That's a good idea. I like **Ian Landsman:** that idea. It whole like, people didn't know about screencasting, right? It's like, well, if you do two months of Redis videos leading up to the Redis course. They're going to know. People are going to know like, could be something. That could be something different right videos about redis and like all that whole thing of like what's the slightly different angle for youtube video right gosh that's exhausting yeah you already did it like this is the stuff i'm putting it out there especially if a database guy because it's like here's my database this is me teaching you database stuff. Period. There it is. Boom. That's interesting. I **Aaron Francis:** like that idea. My only caveat, and I don't think it matters, is the course videos are much more academic. They're kind of slower paced. They're not like YouTube videos. But I don't think that matters. I think it doesn't. --- ### [Choose Clear Domain Names Carefully](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d8a73905-b811-436d-9742-98ae9c7a1669) 🎧 50:10 - 57:19 (07:09) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/a69d0009-b374-4c5e-8f9f-40b31ef1cda0" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Choose a product name with a clear, brandable .com domain or at least a relevant extension like .io or .app. - Avoid hyphens, unpronounceable names, and obscure TLDs to preserve brand recall and unity across platforms. #### 💬 Quote > It's two strikes, you're out, as they say in baseball. [...] Hyphens are no. Hyphens gotta go. > — Aaron Francis Aaron Francis on importance of domain name choices #### 📚 Transcript **Ian Landsman:** Do you think the domain's important or do you think it's irrelevant? It could just be anything, any extension, because nobody's going to ever type the domain directly in. I **Aaron Francis:** hate to go against, you know, the head of the family, but I'm going to side with you on this one, Ian. So sorry, Jamie. Sorry. Yeah, I know who's in charge over there. I know it ain't you. Yeah. I think it matters. I think it matters. It does right? It matters. And I think having a dot com matters too i really do for the dot com obviously dot pizza or you know dot animals or whatever that's all stupid but even the only ones i think i'm okay with are dot app and dot dev if they are apps or dev tools right but even like i would i would rather have i would rather have a filler word so you a prefix or suffix and a.com then uh then a.ly or.io i think and it is insane to me that people will go filler word plus misspelling. Like what? Pick a different filler word or they'll go filler word plus bad top level domain. So they'll go filler word dot L-Y. Pick a different filler word. Or they'll go something with a hyphen and a not.com. I'm like, what? That's two strikes. Two strikes, you're out, as they say in baseball. So those are some penalties that I can't get over. **Ian Landsman:** Okay, hold on. I want to dig into this. So now I would say I'm kind of more in the mindset of like the core known extensions I'm okay with. the dot io the dot app the dot um ly at this point not the ly is kind of like ly is too old 2003 right but like i think i'm kind of more okay with like word that is your name plus one of those even if it's not.com with of course the.com being like super extra ultimate bonus points but you're kind of making me think about that like is the filler word with the dot com because here's the other problem you have right when you pick like word plus not secondary extension even if it's like one of the better secondary extensions like you can never get that word anywhere else right like you're not getting the github repo you're not getting the twitter account you're not getting the Instagram account, you're not getting any of those things unless you are like Kit did it because they have tons of money and they could just buy their way through that. **Aaron Francis:** It's like 10 years later. Yeah. **Ian Landsman:** Right. If you have 40 million a year in revenue, you can pay people off to get the Twitter handle, right? But like, if you don't, then you're probably not inclined to spend 20 grand or 50 grand or whatever somebody might ransom you for, for a handle or whatever the case may be. So now you end up making up words or other weirdo things for all that stuff because you can't even have a unified experience anyway. So it's like Bento now. Now Bento, I think it's just Bento, right? Or does he actually call it Bento now? I **Aaron Francis:** it's just Bento. just calls it Bento. The company is Bento. And that is the problem with the filler word yes get drip it's well the company is called drip but we call it get drip yeah right that's a problem but i don't mind an hq i don't mind a get or use or a meet or a go i don't i don't mind any of those interesting HQ is a fine suffix to me. Yeah, none of that bothers me as much as. As a non.com. As a non.com, a hyphen, or a non-pronounceable, an unpronounceable.com. That's even bad. We don't want an unpronounceable name. **Ian Landsman:** It's so tricky because like obviously there's examples you can come up with of like invented words that are huge products. Right. But like but it does feel like in general, that's not the best strategy. Even like **Aaron Francis:** MailChimp is a great example like generic word plus random animal yeah now you got a whole brand that's just a brand mail chimp's an excellent brand excellent brand so that's that seems you know something you know something eagle something fox something whatever send me **Ian Landsman:** into the penalty box here man because i'm with you I think you've convinced me on this. I like this a lot. Yes. I really like the MailChimp example because there is like, you're always looking for like, what's my angle on the actual branding? You know what I mean? Totally. When the name doesn't help you, it sucks because it just like, you're just running counter to everything. And if I am going to name some new side projects, I already have a pure B2B with a pure B2B name. Like, okay, help spot. Okay, whatever. It's totally generic. That's what that market wanted. Fine. But this would be a little bit different market. Go a little whimsical. A little bit of whimsy is interesting. Fascinating, Aaron. Fascinating. So definitely with you hyphens. Hyphens are no. Hyphens gotta go. There's a few sites that make it work, but I'm not with the hyphens. Can you imagine **Aaron Francis:** saying hyphen out loud? Mail hyphen chimp.com. You'd be laughed out **Ian Landsman:** of the room. Oh, you can't do it. You can't do that. I discovered the other day that there's now a dot spot extension, which was tempting me slightly for help dot spot, but it's like $1,300. Yeah, save your money. It's no good. But yeah, I do agree. The.com is the gold standard. It's like the crypto people, right? They love the Bitcoin, right? Love the Bitcoin. The most useless of them compared to every other crypto. Bitcoin is the least useful, but they love the Bitcoin. It's OG. The.com is the same thing. Although it's still useful. It's still as useful as the other ones, but it's way more useful. It's actually way more useful. Because it's also like, there's no extortion. That's the analogy falls apart is dotcom **Aaron Francis:** is actually helpful. **Ian Landsman:** Dotcom is better in every way. All right. This is very, very good stuff here. This is good. This is a win for **Aaron Francis:** me. I'm going write this in my journal. Today I convinced Ian of something. Yeah, this **Ian Landsman:** is great. Yes, big win. Big win. Now, it's hard coming up with these things, of course. Of course. You have to come up with what makes sense for the product, which is hard. But MailChimp, that one's going to stick one's stuck. That one's stuck in your head. That one is sticking with me. That's a good one. I **Aaron Francis:** think, what's the other? Datadog. That's the same pattern. Same pattern. It's just like, no, there you go. like Databricks. These kind of things that are like, **Ian Landsman:** Databricks I don't like as much as those other two, but yeah, interesting. **Aaron Francis:** Okay. **Ian Landsman:** I **Aaron Francis:** like where we're at here. **Ian Landsman:** So domains matter. **Aaron Francis:** Domains matter. Sorry, Jamie. **Ian Landsman:** Dotcom matters most. matters, yep. Prefix suffix, wording. Prefer the prefix **Aaron Francis:** suffix to the hyphen or the misspelling. And I think we'd **Ian Landsman:** say, though, a brandable prefix suffix preferable to the generic prefix suffix. I agree. Okay. **Aaron Francis:** Yeah. So like use fathom is worse than fathom analytics. So that's like they just picked a cool name, Fathom, and a descriptor of what the business does. That --- ### [What Time Is It Game Fun](https://share.snipd.com/snip/929b15fe-2431-4728-bd37-89df7988cd2e) 🎧 57:41 - 01:01:57 (04:15) <iframe src="https://share.snipd.com/embed/obsidian-player/snip/b3fb1e48-c51f-4489-911d-ca7a9d0c686c" width="100%" height="100" style="border: none; border-radius: 12px;" sandbox="allow-scripts allow-same-origin allow-forms allow-popups allow-clipboard-write" ></iframe> - Ian Landsman and Aaron Francis play a game guessing the time without looking at a clock. - The game is fun and challenging, providing moments of surprise and victory. #### 💬 Quote > Here's the game: don't look at your phone, what time do you think it is? That's the whole game. > — Ian Landsman Ian Landsman explaining a made-up time guessing game to Aaron Francis #### 📚 Transcript **Aaron Francis:** Yes. Have I told you about the what time is it game? No. That's the game. It's just what time is it. So that's the whole game. It's 11.03. But it's a blast. Okay. Here's the game you're sitting around at home enjoying a you know enjoying a fine tuesday evening you and jamie are talking you know you're you're drinking a glass of wine nobody's looked at their phone in a long time right we're just living in the moment that is when you say don't look at your phone what time do you think it is that's it that's the whole game. That's the whole game. It's great. It's great. And so we did, Jennifer and I play this quite often. And we're always excited when we realize, oh, we don't know. We have no idea. It could be anywhere between, you know, 8.15 and 9.30. I have no idea. The other night, Jennifer got it within minute within one minute i think i was off by like i think i was off by like nine minutes nine or ten minutes but for all you listeners out there what time is it great game super fun game gotta be in the right like the scenario has to hit where you haven't seen a clock in a while and you don't really know nobody's looked at their phone and you got to pause everyone and say don't look at your phone and then the dramatic reveal when you get your phone out and you click the lock button and the camera i mean the the clock comes on and it's wow i was so close um we have also tried to play what temperature do you think it is but that's way less fun because it's like yeah well we set the house to 72 so i bet it's 72 yeah so we don't play we don't play that one much anymore but what time do you think it is great game great game i love **Ian Landsman:** this like examples of like a parent of young children just oh yeah losing their mind oh totally yeah jack nicholson in the shining here just watching the slow the evolution ofolution of your brain cycles. Yes. like we could play a real game. We could get some cards out or like a board game. All we got time for is this made up game. **Aaron Francis:** What time is it? What **Ian Landsman:** time is it? knows? Why are people buying stuff in the app store? We got what time is it? You can play this. **Aaron Francis:** You know, the hard part is you can't play it too many times in a row because it gets easier. **Ian Landsman:** Yeah, you **Aaron Francis:** got to kind of let it cool off for a little bit but if you find yourself in a situation where the game is playable i would highly encourage you to play it's **Ian Landsman:** great fun oh jamie's a big clock person she's a person there's a lot of clocks in our house there's clocks all around you don't want to miss the time but we like to sit outside, especially in the summer. It's outside. There's no clock out there. Maybe we could pull this off on the outside. Now, outside, you're kind of outdoors, which probably helps a little bit. I don't know. **Aaron Francis:** Maybe not. And it's not prices right. You can go over. It's an absolute value thing. Just **Ian Landsman:** closest. **Aaron Francis:** Just closest. Yep. You have prizes? Just being awesome. That's it. Glory? Yeah, just glory. I'll talk about you on the podcast if you win, you know, it's a great game. Have ever nailed it? Has anybody nailed it? yeah. Oh yeah. We've had a few, we've had a few on the money and that's like ultimate high fives, freak out. So fun. Great fun. Oh, this **Ian Landsman:** is a joke of your brains. I'm doing great i'm just really doing great yeah i'm thriving oh boy all right i like this i like this game **Aaron Francis:** so y'all play it report back i want to hear i want to hear people introducing what time do you think it is to your spouse and i want to hear how it goes put **Ian Landsman:** in the comments up on youtube let us know how it went. I will play this week and we'll see how that goes. That's exciting. **Aaron Francis:** Best of luck to you. Hopefully you can win. I know. Hopefully I'm dialed in. I don't I feel like the brain's a little fuzzy, **Ian Landsman:** a little foggy. **Aaron Francis:** And if you're playing against a clock person, she might have a better innate sense of time. You might be hosed. I might be **Ian Landsman:** in trouble. That's alright. It's gonna feel... Still. It'll be fun. It's alright. It's still fun. It's good. She beats me like every time, but then when I do win, it's so glorious. The victory is sweet. It's like in baseball you fail 80% of the time, but then you get that hit. So nice. Yep. **Aaron Francis:** Something I know. Baseball. Thanks for putting it in terms I would understand. **Ian Landsman:** Yeah, exactly. I had some movie references in there, some baseball, all the stuff you're into. --- Created with [Snipd](https://www.snipd.com) | Highlight & Take Notes from Podcasts